live VP debate thread

[Bob]

i have nothing better to do on a thursday night than watch the debate on the internet so why not make a thread about it

let's talk about debates on the internet

[ToucanSpam]

Right now I'm watching the Canadian debate.


For now I just have to say listening to Franglais is really hard on my ears.

[Bob]

sorry i meant the real debate, go away

[ToucanSpam]

You mean the one between the retarded hockey mom and the old fart?



Yeah, it might end up being more entertaining.



EDIT: OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH GILLES DUCEPPE GILLES DUCEPPE GILLES DUCEPPE DROPS A LAISSEZ FAIRE BOMB!!!

[Dharma]

She wore her hair down ... I am keeping my word ...

[RobMoney$]

She's killing him on taxes.

Biden is putting me to sleep.

[Bob]

did the moderator just ask biden about "class warfare"? what the hell

[kaiser soze]

she's not middle class - her and todd are worth an estimated 1 mil

fucking liar, joe six pack? more like JOE DIRT!

[Bob]

the private sector will help us grow and thrive

yes, that's worked well

[Documad]

I think they're both doing a good job so far.

[Documad]

She's killing him on taxes.

I don't think so. They both said the same things their parties always say.

[Documad]

"Oh, those oil companies. Bless their hearts." :p

[Bob]

i like the moderator, she's pretty no-nonsense. for example, her question, "governor palin, how did barack obama's tax breaks to oil companies affect your governance of alaska?" she really kept her to task on that

[Documad]

i like the moderator, she's pretty no-nonsense. for example, her question, "governor palin, how did barack obama's tax breaks to oil companies affect your governance of alaska?" she really kept her to task on that

Yeah, we're really lucky with the moderators. The ones they had during some of those debates during the primaries were so awful.

[Bob]

Yeah, we're really lucky with the moderators. The ones they had during some of those debates during the primaries were so awful.

in all seriousness, i do like this moderator a lot. she actually is making an earnest effort to remind them of the questions she asked (good luck to her) and she's even enforcing the time limits

[b i o n i c]

all this crap is the easy stuff she's rehearsed all week. we need to hear palin go off script.

[valvano]

the private sector will help us grow and thrive

yes, that's worked well

yep, the govt has a great record of running a business and making it thrive...

see the National Rail Passenger Corporation aka Amtrak :rolleyes:

[Bob]

i think palin has a different definition of "energy independence" than...well, everyone

[Documad]

in all seriousness, i do like this moderator a lot. she actually is making an earnest effort to remind them of the questions she asked (good luck to her) and she's even enforcing the time limits

I agree. The mod is a tough cookie.

There's no way to make Palin answer the questions though. She didn't answer the question about McCain's policies and how they would make many businesses dump their employees' health care.

BTW--I don't think I understand her climate change answer at all. :confused:

[Bob]

yep, the govt has a great record of running a business and making it thrive...

see the National Rail Passenger Corporation aka Amtrak :rolleyes:

wasn't what i meant by "us"

[kaiser soze]

What is this?

Couric interview Part Deux?

Why is Biden playing nice? So far this debate is doodie

[Documad]

all this crap is the easy stuff she's rehearsed all week. we need to hear palin go off script.

Katie Couric could make her do it because Katie could ask her the same question three or four times in a row. That doesn't work in a debate.

[Documad]

i think palin has a different definition of "energy independence" than...well, everyone
:)

[RobMoney$]

Yeah, we're really lucky with the moderators. The ones they had during some of those debates during the primaries were so awful.


Isn't this moderator the one who's writing the pro-Obama book?


Color me skeptical.

[Bob]

Isn't this moderator the one who's writing the pro-Obama book?


Color me skeptical.

she isn't really going easy on biden

[Documad]

Isn't this moderator the one who's writing the pro-Obama book?


Color me skeptical.

I think she's been balanced. She's a smart lady.

I see you got the emails though. :p

[Bob]

ah, palin is courting the gay vote now. she won't let them marry, but she'll tolerate their choices. why can't those faggots except that?

edit: but obama won't either, so fuck him on that too

[Documad]

ah, palin is courting the gay vote now. she won't let them marry, but she'll tolerate their choices. why can't those faggots except that?

edit: but obama won't either, so fuck him on that too

But she wouldn't answer Biden's questions re whether gays should have civil rights. Whatever.

[Dharma]

Neither is for gay marriage ... Wow.

[RobMoney$]

Did Biden just say neither he nor Obama support gay marriage?

KABOOM, wasn't aware of that at all.

[b i o n i c]

Did Biden just say neither he nor Obama support gay marriage?

KABOOM, wasn't aware of that at all.


there is a difference between gay marriage and civil unions

[Documad]

Did Biden just say neither he nor Obama support gay marriage?

KABOOM, wasn't aware of that at all.

You should have watched the democratic debates. I think only Kucinich supports gay marriage. All the other candidates are trying to walk the tightrope where they give them civil rights but don't call it marriage --they try to leave marriage to be defined by religious groups.

by the way, it's bullshit, but it's one of the things you have to say if you're going to run for president.

[Bob]

what was the line, what was the line, what was the...white..flag..of...surrender, now i remember, here we go

[RobMoney$]

You should have watched the democratic debates. I think only Kucinich supports gay marriage. All the other candidates are trying to walk the tightrope where they give them civil rights but don't call it marriage --they try to leave marriage to be defined by religious groups.

Yeah, I watched them but I don't remember the issue being discussed.

[Documad]

what was the line, what was the line, what was the...white..flag..of...surrender, now i remember, here we go

Yeah, that was painful. She was doing really well before that to remember the talking points.

[Documad]

Yeah, I watched them but I don't remember the issue being discussed.

Richardson had the most painful answer once, when he didn't hear the question right.

[Bob]

"nucular," i've missed you

[Documad]

Is anyone else watching CNN? I love watching the audience reaction. No one likes "drill baby drill" anymore and Biden's answers re Iraq always get the highest possible score. Palin's highest score was when she said that we homeowners won't get fooled again re mortgages.

[RobMoney$]

This is the issue that led me to McCain.

I am wholeheartedly for staying in Iraq until the area is stabilized and our Generals on the gorund there are for leaving, not because Obama thinks pulling out will get him the most votes.

In the end, I think no matter who wins, Obama or McCain will pull out of Iraq at the same time. Obama was already backing off his time line as soon as he visited the area.

[Documad]

She learned the name of one foreign ruler and by god she's going to say it 12 times!!!!

[RobMoney$]

Is anyone else watching CNN? I love watching the audience reaction. No one likes "drill baby drill" anymore and Biden's answers re Iraq always get the highest possible score. Palin's highest score was when she said that we homeowners won't get fooled again re mortgages.


Yeah, I'm watching it. In full high def too.

[Bob]

"they hate our freedoms," i've missed you too

[Documad]

Kissinger shared his passion for diplomacy with her! woot!

[kaiser soze]

Did I hear her say Dictator? (http://beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=88733)

[Documad]

"they hate our freedoms," i've missed you too

<3

[Dharma]

I love the usage of "nativity"

[Documad]

Joe Biden has really good teeth -- I don't understand why McCain's wife doesn't buy some for him.

[kaiser soze]

ENOUGH WITH ISRAEL!

jesus fucking christ on a stick, this is a political debate not one about tally hooing with religious states

[Bob]

lol biden wants to hit her, i can see it in his eyes

she's very smarmy

[Bob]

i don't think she understood this interventionism question

can we talk about afghanistan for a second? it's on my...thanks

[Documad]

she's very smarmy
And she's smarmy about the wrong things. It's an inappropriate smarmy. You can be smarmy when you talk about how much you love gay people but not when you talk about nuclear weapons.

[RobMoney$]

"Ahmadinejad"


turns me on everytime she says it.

[Dharma]

They were both coached to keep it cool ...this shit is so boring so far.

[Bob]

it appears that biden didn't understand the interventionism question either

i guess it's the moderator's fault, you can't expect a politician to say "i support the use of nuclear weapons if" or "we should never use nuclear weapons ever"

i wouldn't mind a politician saying the latter, but oh well

[b i o n i c]

i think pfalin's cracking a bit now

[Documad]

When she came in with the "as shucks I'm a Washington outsider" comment, the CNN poll thing really dipped. People like her better when she is saying things that at least sound substantive.

I don't know how scientific the thing is -- it's probably complete nonsense, but it's entertaining. :p

[RobMoney$]

I don't know, she seems pretty knowledgable on foreign affairs to me.

[Documad]

I don't know, she seems pretty knowledgable on foreign affairs to me.

She strings words together that sound intelligent, but they're not intelligent if you really listen to her. McCain is the opposite. He knows what he's talking about but he doesn't sound confident when he says it. I disagree with McCain but he actually understand the things they're backing.

[Bob]

biden's "what would you do if obama died" answer was...troublingly well prepared

[Documad]

biden's "what would you do if obama died" answer was...troublingly well prepared

And the CNN poll numbers skyrocketed.

[b i o n i c]

like, "whaddaya expect? we're a team of maverics!"

lol.

pfalin.

[Documad]

When you hear how she screwed up her hometown, you don't want her to bring it to the federal government. But it's a popular answer with the CNN people.

EDIT: his hometown is also popular with the independents. :p

But the aw shucks say it ain't so comment killed the poll. I have to quit watching that thing!

[Bob]

When you hear how she screwed up her hometown, you don't want her to bring it to the federal government. But it's a popular answer with the CNN people.

moderators should have the ability to interrupt the candidates when they're lying

[kaiser soze]

Oh no she's becoming increasingly adorable!!!

Tina Fey will be impressed!

[Dharma]

moderators should have the ability to interrupt the candidates when they're lying

They should all be hooked up to lie detectors while doing these debates.

[Bob]

As designated by the Constitution of the United States, the vice president also serves as the President of the Senate, and may break tie votes in that chamber.[2] He or she may be assigned additional duties by the president but, as the Constitution assigns no executive powers to the vice president, in performing such duties he or she acts only as an agent of the president.

[ToucanSpam]

When you hear how she screwed up her hometown, you don't want her to bring it to the federal government. But it's a popular answer with the CNN people.

EDIT: his hometown is also popular with the independents. :p

But the aw shucks say it ain't so comment killed the poll. I have to quit watching that thing!

I'm watching the line thing now. Harper has been destroyed here in Canada, I'm satisfied, time to check out the USA..

[Documad]

She still doesn't know what the VP's role is. That was the worst answer of the night.

And Biden's response: "Chaney was the worst VP in the history of the country." Ha.

[b i o n i c]

is she saying we need to change the constitution to give vp's more authority?

noooooo

[Bob]

"what is your biggest weakness" this is like a job interview, i love it

palin did not understand the question, however

i have a feeling biden will make a similar misunderstanding

[ToucanSpam]

She still doesn't know what the VP's role is. That was the worst answer of the night.

And Biden's response: "Chaney was the worst VP in the history of the country." Ha.

The line thing went waaaaaaaay up there.:p

[Documad]

is she saying we need to change the constitution to give vp's more authority?

noooooo

But how terrific was Biden?

[Documad]

good lord, the magic wore off the maverick nonsense ages ago.

[kaiser soze]

FUCKING SHUT UP WITH THE MAVERICK SPEAK

it's wearing thin...on everyone

[kaiser soze]

oh shit!

you owe me a Dr. Pepper

[ToucanSpam]

FUCKING SHUT UP WITH THE MAVERICK SPEAK

it's wearing thin...on everyone

Yes.


I ROFL'd when she said McCain had to leave...errr lead.

[b i o n i c]

.^. (y)

[Dharma]

Omg!!! Did you see the spike when Biden teared up? ...omg.

[Bob]

biden is tearing this maverick shit apart

[Documad]

Biden's answer to the maverick bullshit: A+++

[ToucanSpam]

Biden just ripped McCain a fresh new asshole.

[Bob]

Biden's answer to the maverick bullshit: A+++

i really wish she would have asked palin to respond to that

i really really wish that would have happened. what the fuck could she have possibly said to that?

[ToucanSpam]

Holy shit Palin is so fucking convoluted it sounds agreeable but really she has no idea what she is saying.

[b i o n i c]

also too as well as too also

[RobMoney$]

i really wish she would have asked palin to respond to that

i really really wish that would have happened. what the fuck could she have possibly said to that?

I was hoping she would have gotten that opportunity too because that whole anti-maverick speech by Biden was so fucking prepared and processed it was a joke.

[Bob]

i'd rather be able to speak straight to the public with out the mainstream media filter, telling you what to think

stay tuned for post debate commentary

[Documad]

I was hoping she would have gotten that opportunity too.

Biden had to ask for the opportunity to respond to about 6-8 lies Palin told and the moderator let him. Palin saw that. If Palin wanted to respond she would have asked the moderator like Biden did.

[RobMoney$]

Biden had to ask for the opportunity to respond to about 6-8 lies Palin told and the moderator let him. Palin saw that. If Palin wanted to respond she would have asked the moderator like Biden did.

I disagree.
The moderator went right to the next question as soon as Biden was finished, which was posed to Biden first as well.

[ToucanSpam]

Edge to Biden...but it's like 52/48.

[kaiser soze]

I'd like to let the world know

Not every mother in the U.S. is a soccer mom....

[Bob]

biden's family could totally beat up palin's family

[Documad]

Edge to Biden...but it's like 52/48.
you weren't even watching. :rolleyes:

[Documad]

All the correspondents are saying the expected: "no major gaffes." Why do we even need them? Who cares?

[ToucanSpam]

you weren't even watching. :rolleyes:

I watched the final 30 minutes. Sorry, I was too concerned with watching my country's political debates, something your countrymen are completely ignorant of.

[Bob]

All the correspondents are saying the expected: "no major gaffes." Why do we even need them? Who cares?

i immediately turned the volume down when i heard them begin to speak

[Bob]

I watched the final 30 minutes. Sorry, I was too concerned with watching my country's political debates, something your countrymen are completely ignorant of.

when your country creates a black hole in the world economy, we'll start paying attention to you too

[RobMoney$]

I'd like to let the world know



Not every mother in the U.S. is a soccer mom....


Now you're representing American Moms?
LOLZ

[Documad]

when your country creates a black hole in the world economy, we'll start paying attention to you too

Okay, that made me truly laugh out loud.

[ToucanSpam]

when your country creates a black hole in the world economy, we'll start paying attention to you too

Fair enough, but I don't deserve to have my opinion cut down because I missed some of the debate. I'm just as smart as anyone else posting here.

[RobMoney$]

Sorry, I was too concerned with watching my country's political debates,


Lambert could learn a thing or two from you Toucan.

[Burnout18]

And the CNN poll numbers skyrocketed.

uhhhhhhhh yea, that was wierd....

[BBboy20]

.^. (y)So he really looked like he was going to cry?

Palin did surprisingly well...well, to say at least. Biden, surprisingly, did n't go after Palin in any subtle way (though, the VP is a rather ambigious spot so logically, you would go after the man who's suppose to be in charge anyways) or sounded rather "offensive" but in a more "reasonable" approuch.

I'd say that Biden won but it wasn't by a landslide.

[RobMoney$]

I thought she proved herself more than competant.
So I thought she accomplished her goal.

[b i o n i c]

"she responded to everything like it was a spelling bee.

maverick...
m-a-v-e-r-i-c-k
maverick.

[travesty]

My $.02

Biden came across just as he should have. Like an experienced Washington politician that has been at this game for far too long. Smooth, calm and collected if not BORING AS FUCK!

Pailin came across just as she was supposed to. Green, but competent, not as polished and I have to say, not as boring. She definitely was sticking to some sort of training regimen and reverted to talking points on questions she was uncomfortable with. I don't really hold it against her any more than every other politician who does the same thing.

I did keep looking for a little more teeth from either of them. I thought Pailin could have really rocked him after he espoused how he championed the whole Kosovo deal by noting that THERE ARE STILL US TROOPS IN KOSOVO.
How can you be for completely pulling troops out of Iraq and at the same time say Kosovo was such a success when we haven't left there either???

[travesty]

PS- I did get a good buzz by drinking every time she said "maverick".

[Dorothy Wood]

the gay marriage thing made me pretty mad. biden could've at least said something about civil unions. but that resounding "no" part was just...oh, so sad. I've known that obama wasn't in favor of gay marriage for awhile though. meh. seriously, who fucking cares if gay people get married? it doesn't make them or you any less gay or straight.

I think palin did alright, but she still said "maverick" way too much and didn't answer questions directly and kept redirecting things to topics she'd rehearsed. Biden won I think, but he din't kick her ass like I wanted. calling her out on maverick and almost crying was pretty good though. (y)

[Bob]

Pailin came across just as she was supposed to. Green, but competent, not as polished and I have to say, not as boring. She definitely was sticking to some sort of training regimen and reverted to talking points on questions she was uncomfortable with. I don't really hold it against her any more than every other politician who does the same thing.

i agree with every word of that synopsis

seriously, who fucking cares if gay people get married?

because life is precious, and god, and the bible

[saz]

palin is still a redneck bimbo jesus freak and the fact that people would actually vote for her boggles the mind.

[Dorothy Wood]

well, I guess if you let gays get married then people will want to go around marrying dogs and billy goats next.

[Dharma]

Overall ... I think Biden did a better job, but I think Palin is more honest.

I am still undecided on my vote, this debate didn't change anything.

What bothered me the most was how Biden's tear up came across premeditated. When they panned back to him after his speech he was smiling and cleared eyed.

[Bob]

I think Palin is more honest.


honest about what, and why do you think that?

[saz]

I think Palin is more honest.

I am still undecided on my vote, this debate didn't change anything.


holy fuck, no wonder why americans get a bad rap.

obama/biden: bland centrists

mccain/palin: super right-wing jesus freak warmongering idiots

[DroppinScience]

I watched the final 30 minutes. Sorry, I was too concerned with watching my country's political debates, something your countrymen are completely ignorant of.

Oh, Americans aren't missing much with the Canadian debates. It was a snooze fest and my own mind was made up for who I'm voting for anyway. Then again, I'm voting for the candidate in my riding more so than the party leadership anyways.

[DroppinScience]

Lambert could learn a thing or two from you Toucan.

It's called multi-tasking, Rob.

[Bob]

holy fuck, no wonder why americans get a bad rap.

obama/biden: bland centrists

mccain/palin: super right-wing jesus freak warmongering idiots

if by that you mean "obama/biden: want to raise taxes, give a trillion dollars to the evil arabs and kill our jobs, mccain/palin: want to lower taxes, increase energy independence (for a few months) and revitalize the economy" then yeah you're totally right. what, didn't you hear what palin said?

[saz]

Oh, Americans aren't missing much with the Canadian debates. It was a snooze fest

it was awesome. you just weren't drinking nor doing drugs.

[Dharma]

honest about what, and why do you think that?

Just due to the fact she didn't get on the defense on anything .. She said straight up ... I will let the press decide what is fact and what isn't.

The presidential debate was 90% he said/she said bullshit ...and Palin came across as if she didn't want to play that game.

[ToucanSpam]

Oh, Americans aren't missing much with the Canadian debates. It was a snooze fest and my own mind was made up for who I'm voting for anyway. Then again, I'm voting for the candidate in my riding more so than the party leadership anyways.

Quick poll around the people I know here on campus and everyone loved it and thought it was the best Canadian debate in over a decade. Maybe because you already made up your mind or are deeply entrenched in your party's front lines it seemed boring. That's not meant to be a backhanded shot at you, I'm NDP too and the way I see it we're all in this together to shut down Harper anyway.

[QueenAdrock]

Fair enough, but I don't deserve to have my opinion cut down because I missed some of the debate. I'm just as smart as anyone else posting here.

Well, it's not about smarts in this case. You said it was Biden-Palin, 52/48 without having watched everything. Your opinion is based on the last half hour of watching it, for all you know Palin could have previously invoked the Germany and Hitler argument when talking about Iraq and Hussein which would put her at the 30% mark. :p

[ToucanSpam]

Well, it's not about smarts in this case. You said it was Biden-Palin, 52/48 without having watched everything. Your opinion is based on the last half hour of watching it, for all you know Palin could have previously invoked the Germany and Hitler argument when talking about Iraq and Hussein which would put her at the 30% mark. :p

I was reading this thread too. Assuming everyone in here is credible (which at least I have the decency to bestow on people) then I didn't miss that much. That wasn't meant as a shot at anyone in particular, of course.(lb)


I know I'm getting super defensive about nothing but I have no alternative, four years on this board and people for the most part refuse to acknowledge the possibility that I read, write and live scholarship.

[Dharma]

holy fuck, no wonder why americans get a bad rap.

obama/biden: bland centrists

mccain/palin: super right-wing jesus freak warmongering idiots

Haaa ....

I am more for Obama than I am for McCain.

My main concern with Obama is his lack of experience. America is in no position for a training period for any president who steps into office. It takes more than someone who is good at speech deliverance.

[b i o n i c]

sarah palin "will let the press decide" whats fact or not: click (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc)

lest we not forget whats most pressing: click (http://gothamist.com/2008/10/01/senate_passes_modified_bailout_bill.php#comments)

.

vp debate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_D3mzG8aug)

[Documad]

Just due to the fact she didn't get on the defense on anything .. She said straight up ... I will let the press decide what is fact and what isn't.

The presidential debate was 90% he said/she said bullshit ...and Palin came across as if she didn't want to play that game.

This is how we got Bush for 8 years. A large percentage of the american voting public prefers people who don't know much but say things with utter confidence. People who admit that the issues are complicated and who know too much to pretend that there are simplistic answers lose. With an attitude like that, we deserve what we get. A straight-up criminal psychopath would be your ideal candidate for president.

Within minutes of the debate ending, the press reported that Biden was right and Palin was wrong. She also named the wrong military leader in Afghanistan. Not that it matters to anyone except the people who are already voting for Obama.

This gets into an issue that has bugged the shit out of me for the whole Bush administration. The truth doesn't matter. I know it's not news to anyone -- Colbert made a career off it. But it's fucking depressing.

[taquitos]

what a ho

[D_Raay]

Pailin came across just as she was supposed to. Green, but competent, not as polished and I have to say, not as boring. She definitely was sticking to some sort of training regimen and reverted to talking points on questions she was uncomfortable with. I don't really hold it against her any more than every other politician who does the same thing.

I did keep looking for a little more teeth from either of them. I thought Pailin could have really rocked him after he espoused how he championed the whole Kosovo deal by noting that THERE ARE STILL US TROOPS IN KOSOVO.

Competent at memorizing lines and talking points for the last month huh?

The problem with this debate was that even when she was confronted with something beyond her ability to answer, she simply provided a completely different answer that wasn't relevant to what was asked. The moderator or Biden should have followed up on that, although I'm guessing Biden was given instruction to not address her at all except to be nice to her. Kind of an interesting subtle strategy in that she really is not a relevant figure at all, she was MADE a relevant figure she certainly didn't earn it like Biden or many others.

BTW, there are 130,000 US troops in Iraq, how many exactly are in Kosovo?

[Dharma]

I actually re watched the debate on CNN.

I wasn't completely focused the first time ... between dinner, people over and posting here ... I missed a lot.

I would like to retracted all comments at this time.

[yeahwho]

The only person I can give credit to is Biden for showing as much restraint as he did, every one of her answers were either wrong, lies, speaking points or gibberish.

John McCain has really fucking lost it. I never knew calling yourself a maverick meant you liked to avoid facts, run during a crisis and lie about most everything your opposition does. Real Mavericks must be cringing. And Sarah deserves better that this, McCain needed to get someone up there who could debate. She really couldn't debate by any standard of the rules. It's his choice though.

The VP debate from the NYTimes point of view (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/opinion/03fri1.html?hp);

We cannot recall when there were lower expectations for a candidate than the ones that preceded Sarah Palin’s appearance in Thursday night’s vice-presidential debate with Joseph Biden. After a series of stumbling interviews that raised serious doubts even among conservatives about her fitness to serve as vice president, Ms. Palin had to do little more than say one or two sensible things and avoid an election-defining gaffe.

By that standard, but only by that standard, the governor of Alaska did well. But Ms. Palin never really got beyond her talking points in 90 minutes, mostly repeating clichés and tired attack lines and energetically refusing to answer far too many questions.

Senator Biden did well, avoiding one of his own infamous gaffes, while showing a clear grasp of the big picture and the details. He left Ms. Palin way behind on most issues, especially foreign policy and national security, where she just seemed lost. It was in those moments that her lack of experience — two terms as mayor of a tiny Anchorage suburb and less than two years as governor — was most painfully evident.

Her take on Global warming sounded straight from the Exxon playbook, her Iraq policy ideas made no sense. 4189 US soldiers are dead.

[RobMoney$]

palin is still a redneck bimbo jesus freak and the fact that people would actually vote for her boggles the mind.

holy fuck, no wonder why americans get a bad rap.

obama/biden: bland centrists

mccain/palin: super right-wing jesus freak warmongering idiots


I guess false generalizations are accepted in here as long as they suit your party?

[travesty]

Competent at memorizing lines and talking points for the last month huh?

Isn't that what all politicians do? Ever seen Barack without a teleprompter? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc)


BTW, there are 130,000 US troops in Iraq, how many exactly are in Kosovo

About 1% of that number. My point is that saying you are going to pull all US troops out of Iraq is HIGHLY, HIGHLY unlikely. Especially in the near term. History is against you. We still have significant numbers of troops in every country we have ever warred with or assisted. As of 2005 US troop levels in;
Japan-35,571
Germany- 76,058
Kuwait- 42,600
Korea- 30,983

I think that Obama/Biden know this and are not being straight with America when they say they are going to bring "every US troop home". Mark my words that once elected, he is going to redeploy a good number of those troops to Afganistan but there will be still be tens of thousands of troops left in Iraq, probably called "peacekeepers". That number will eventually get forgotten by them and the media as the news shifts to the Afgan/Pakistan front. Funny thing is, the EXACT same thing is going to heppen if it is McCain/Palin, they are just being more honest about it.

I hate it when people like Biden say that they are "going to end this war". You can't "end" a war unless you quit or surrender. Wars end when one side decides to give up, that is the ONLY way. So to say that you can somehow end this war without giving up is impossible.

[D_Raay]

No the point is that we were directly attacked multiple times because certain middle eastern factions will simply not allow an american presence on their land, no matter how small. The same can't be said of Kosovo.

[D_Raay]

Isn't that what all politicians do? Ever seen Barack without a teleprompter?

As a matter of fact, yes I have multiple times. I volunteer for his campaign in DC. Do you actually think he would ever mangle an interview like Palin did?

[BBboy20]

Some fact checking.
(http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_el_pr/debate_fact_check)

[b i o n i c]

Pfalin.

[QueenAdrock]

Did anyone else hear her say "Obiden" yesterday? I'm going to start using that, it's totally the new Brangelina.

OBIDEN '08

[travesty]

No the point is that we were directly attacked multiple times because certain middle eastern factions will simply not allow an american presence on their land, no matter how small. The same can't be said of Kosovo.

The fact remains that troops will remain in Iraq even if Obama is elected, guaranteed. So I still don't like them campaigning otherwise. I will bet you your share of the bailout package (about $3200) that at the end of the next presidents first term, regardless of who is elected, there are still US troops in Iraq, not even US troops working for NATO like in Kosovo, but real US troops. Want to take that bet?

[DroppinScience]

Did anyone else hear her say "Obiden" yesterday? I'm going to start using that, it's totally the new Brangelina.

OBIDEN '08

I thought "O'Biden" was just a reference to Joe Biden's Irish cousin or something. :p

[saz]

I guess false generalizations are accepted in here as long as they suit your party?

i'm not a democratic supporter. sarah palin is a redneck bimbo jesus freak.

[yeahwho]

Isn't that what all politicians do? Ever seen Barack without a teleprompter? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc)




About 1% of that number. My point is that saying you are going to pull all US troops out of Iraq is HIGHLY, HIGHLY unlikely. Especially in the near term. History is against you. We still have significant numbers of troops in every country we have ever warred with or assisted. As of 2005 US troop levels in;
Japan-35,571
Germany- 76,058
Kuwait- 42,600
Korea- 30,983

I think that Obama/Biden know this and are not being straight with America when they say they are going to bring "every US troop home". Mark my words that once elected, he is going to redeploy a good number of those troops to Afganistan but there will be still be tens of thousands of troops left in Iraq, probably called "peacekeepers". That number will eventually get forgotten by them and the media as the news shifts to the Afgan/Pakistan front. Funny thing is, the EXACT same thing is going to heppen if it is McCain/Palin, they are just being more honest about it.

I hate it when people like Biden say that they are "going to end this war". You can't "end" a war unless you quit or surrender. Wars end when one side decides to give up, that is the ONLY way. So to say that you can somehow end this war without giving up is impossible.

And how again will we win? There were no WMD's, they did not attack us? What is your idea of winning? We're fucking broke and the Iraqi's have cash with oil just below the toe. How do we win?

I'm pretty sure your just not actually checking out all of the information (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/) that has been provided to you. Sarah Palin's "White Flag of Surrender" is a propaganda speaking point, George W. Bush's declaration of the "End of major combat operations" (May 2003) is a much more valid point to start at, than Sarah Palin's VP debate speaking points.

Under the Obama-Biden plan, a residual force will remain in Iraq and in the region to conduct targeted counter-terrorism missions against al Qaeda in Iraq and to protect American diplomatic and civilian personnel. They will not build permanent bases in Iraq, but will continue efforts to train and support the Iraqi security forces as long as Iraqi leaders move toward political reconciliation and away from sectarianism.

Define winning in Iraq, this has become an endless money pit with an objective that has created as of April 29, 2008, the UNHCR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNHCR) estimated that over 4.7 million Iraqis have been displaced, with 2.7 million within Iraq and 2 million in neighboring countries. 40% of Iraq's middle class. This is a tragedy beyond the scope of our military occupation.

You have to be kidding me when you say your undecided. There has never been a clearer difference in candidates.

[NoFenders]

Since you've been so in tune throughout all the elcetion news, you'd think you'd know there's quite a few undecided voters out here. Give it a rest yawho.

:cool:

[yeahwho]

Since you've been so in tune throughout all the elcetion news, you'd think you'd know there's quite a few undecided voters out here. Give it a rest yawho.

:cool:
Oh OK, so I should just sit on the sidelines and not mention actual facts about the candidates positions? If someone is on the sidelines I should just give it a rest and not speak up?

Or is it like Robmoney$ has espoused about trying to not let the Obama supporters influence the younger voters here on the board?

The younger voters here on the board?

Pauls Boutique came out in 1989, the average birthday on this site is 26 years of age and going up. That means they have voted already at least once. The youngest Beastie Boy is 41 years old. This band whole heartedly supports Barack Obama.

So why don't you give it a rest and figure out where the hell you are.

[NoFenders]

LMAO!

When you blast somebody for not knowing who they want to vote for, you sound like a dick. Maybe it's just me.

The Pauls Boutique refference was dynamic though. Way to go! (y)

I have no idea where you thought I was comming from, but your post really confused me. I think maybe you should figure out where I'm at first.



:)

[yeahwho]

LMAO!

When you blast somebody for not knowing who they want to vote for, you sound like a dick. Maybe it's just me.

The Pauls Boutique refference was dynamic though. Way to go! (y)

I have no idea where you thought I was comming from, but your post really confused me. I think maybe you should figure out where I'm at first.



:)

I'm sort of sick of patronizing trollers. Folks who 95% of the time go right down the republican line then act all bent out of shape when that fact is pointed out. Who are you bullshitting? It isn't me and you also are not making any valid reply to my original post. Which is about correcting a lie over the Obama policy on the Iraq war.

Your post is about "me" giving it a rest. I'm not going to give a rest.

[NoFenders]

Dude. Take your meds.

I told you to give it a rest on people when they say they're not sure who they're voting for. That's all. I know you're a huge Obama supporter, as does anyone who's ever visited this board. I wouldn't try and tell you not to talk about your man crush here. Just that when somebody says they're not sure who they are voting for, you could be a little easier on yourself and others.

Hey, here's a thought. maybe try and educate them on who their choices are. Instead of making them feel like idiots because they haven't seen "the clear choice".

Troller....pffft! Sorry home slice. Didn't realise this was your home.

:cool:

[yeahwho]

Dude. Take your meds.

I told you to give it a rest on people when they say they're not sure who they're voting for. That's all. I know you're a huge Obama supporter, as does anyone who's ever visited this board. I wouldn't try and tell you not to talk about your man crush here. Just that when somebody says they're not sure who they are voting for, you could be a little easier on yourself and others.

Hey, here's a thought. maybe try and educate them on who their choices are. Instead of making them feel like idiots because they haven't seen "the clear choice".

Troller....pffft! Sorry home slice. Didn't realise this was your home.

:cool:

I will rest when I want to. I also will correct a misrepresentation on Obama's Iraq policy when I want to.

Do you need humor and dilution with every response on this board? You've taken a shot at me and now your not enjoying the response. You told me to give it a rest and I'm not even engaging you, you came out of nowhere to save me from myself.

Or was it to just call me a dick?

[yeahwho]

Just reiterate my original post, I'll leave out the offending end on indecision and choices.

Isn't that what all politicians do? Ever seen Barack without a teleprompter? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc)




About 1% of that number. My point is that saying you are going to pull all US troops out of Iraq is HIGHLY, HIGHLY unlikely. Especially in the near term. History is against you. We still have significant numbers of troops in every country we have ever warred with or assisted. As of 2005 US troop levels in;
Japan-35,571
Germany- 76,058
Kuwait- 42,600
Korea- 30,983

I think that Obama/Biden know this and are not being straight with America when they say they are going to bring "every US troop home". Mark my words that once elected, he is going to redeploy a good number of those troops to Afganistan but there will be still be tens of thousands of troops left in Iraq, probably called "peacekeepers". That number will eventually get forgotten by them and the media as the news shifts to the Afgan/Pakistan front. Funny thing is, the EXACT same thing is going to heppen if it is McCain/Palin, they are just being more honest about it.

I hate it when people like Biden say that they are "going to end this war". You can't "end" a war unless you quit or surrender. Wars end when one side decides to give up, that is the ONLY way. So to say that you can somehow end this war without giving up is impossible.

And how again will we win? There were no WMD's, they did not attack us? What is your idea of winning? We're fucking broke and the Iraqi's have cash with oil just below the toe. How do we win?

I'm pretty sure your just not actually checking out all of the information (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/) that has been provided to you. Sarah Palin's "White Flag of Surrender" is a propaganda speaking point, George W. Bush's declaration of the "End of major combat operations" (May 2003) is a much more valid point to start at, than Sarah Palin's VP debate speaking points.

Under the Obama-Biden plan, a residual force will remain in Iraq and in the region to conduct targeted counter-terrorism missions against al Qaeda in Iraq and to protect American diplomatic and civilian personnel. They will not build permanent bases in Iraq, but will continue efforts to train and support the Iraqi security forces as long as Iraqi leaders move toward political reconciliation and away from sectarianism.

Define winning in Iraq, this has become an endless money pit with an objective that has created as of April 29, 2008 unprecedented damage. The UNHCR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNHCR) estimated that over 4.7 million Iraqis have been displaced, with 2.7 million within Iraq and 2 million in neighboring countries. 40% of Iraq's middle class. This is a tragedy beyond the scope of our military occupation.

[NoFenders]

I will rest when I want to.

Yeah, great. Just lettin ya know that when ya jump on somebody for not knowing who they want to vote for you sound like a dick.


I also will correct a misrepresentation on Obama's Iraq policy when I want to.

Great! Never said you shouldn't!

Do you need humor and dilution with every response on this board?
If you can't laugh at this joke of a democracy, than you probably either have no sense of humor, or think too much of yourself and your own views.

You've taken a shot at me and now your not enjoying the response.
It's hard when you didn't even reply to my shot. You made up some thing about not responding to your original post. I have a hard time believing your know who or what you're talking about right now.


You told me to give it a rest and I'm not even engaging you, you came out of nowhere to save me from myself.

Just lettin ya know you sound like a dick when ya jump on people because they don't know who to vote for.


Or was it to just call me a dick?

I would never call you a dick. ;)

:cool:

[travesty]

You have to be kidding me when you say your undecided. There has never been a clearer difference in candidates.

Uhhhhh not so much.

Iraq-Both want to leave troops in Iraq "forever". They both want to leave, but not before the job is done to secure a stable government. You can also say that same sentence as " a responsible withdrawal".

Taxes- Both want to manipulate the current system of taxation, instead of fixing the real problem...the system.

Healthcare- Again both want to manipulate the current system, instead of fixing the real problem...the system.

Economy- One want to go from the bottom up, one from the top down but both just cornholed us all for about $850B.

Energy- Both want to drill offshore, both support funding wind, solar and nuclear alternatives. Great.

Gay rights- Both support "seperate but equal" (civil unions not marriage).

Foreign Policy- Minor differences in how to go about it but basically the same plan. Redeploy to Afganistan, santction Iran, don't let them have nukes, keep an eye on N. Korea, Support Buhto in Pakistan, support Israel am I missing anything?

So you see, the differences could certainly be A LOT more clear, at least to me. Maybe I am just looking for REAL CHANGE instead of just a lame slogan.

[yeahwho]

Yeah, great. Just lettin ya know that when ya jump on somebody for not knowing who they want to vote for you sound like a dick.



Just lettin ya know you sound like a dick when ya jump on people because they don't know who to vote for.



I would never call you a dick. ;)

:cool:

What are you on about? I never once replied to anything you've posted here or elsewhere, for at least a couple of weeks or months. I'm not even remotely interested in what you think about me, or do I care.

All I am doing is trying to correct a factual error. You keep changing the topic. I re-posted my original reply to somebody else and was considerate enough to leave out the remarks that offended you.

Your not offending me in no other way than just ignoring my original point. I do not care if you call me a dick. I find it amusing you legitimize my behavior rather than just put me on ignore. If I were such a dick I think you would report me then ignore me.

Your neither endorsing Obama or McCain. Your just wasting time going on about me.

[NoFenders]

(y)









:cool:

[travesty]

And how again will we win? There were no WMD's, they did not attack us? What is your idea of winning? We're fucking broke and the Iraqi's have cash with oil just below the toe. How do we win?

I'm pretty sure your just not actually checking out all of the information that has been provided to you. Sarah Palin's "White Flag of Surrender" is a propaganda speaking point,

Not really. If you plan to "end" the war then you are planning to quit. That's my point, Obama is not planning to quit. He's just planning to keep fighting with less troops. I don't have a recipe for winning. I think we should probably get the fuck out, and I mean COMPLETELY out. We should not have been there in the first place. Barack shared my views not so many months ago until Brzezinski got hold of him and told him how to think like a good little robot.

[yeahwho]

Uhhhhh not so much.

Iraq-Both want to leave troops in Iraq "forever". They both want to leave, but not before the job is done to secure a stable government. You can also say that same sentence as " a responsible withdrawal".

Taxes- Both want to manipulate the current system of taxation, instead of fixing the real problem...the system.

Healthcare- Again both want to manipulate the current system, instead of fixing the real problem...the system.

Economy- One want to go from the bottom up, one from the top down but both just cornholed us all for about $850B.

Energy- Both want to drill offshore, both support funding wind, solar and nuclear alternatives. Great.

Gay rights- Both support "seperate but equal" (civil unions not marriage).

Foreign Policy- Minor differences in how to go about it but basically the same plan. Redeploy to Afganistan, santction Iran, don't let them have nukes, keep an eye on N. Korea, Support Buhto in Pakistan, support Israel am I missing anything?

So you see, the differences could certainly be A LOT more clear, at least to me. Maybe I am just looking for REAL CHANGE instead of just a lame slogan.

If there is any one thing I gained from the VP debates I would say it is they have both taken themselves out of the race. It's definitely Obama vs. McCain, I'm not looking into Biden or Palin for any real edge. Maybe Biden just for showing restraint.

[QueenAdrock]

I think we should probably get the fuck out, and I mean COMPLETELY out. We should not have been there in the first place.


Yeah, I agree on that too. (y)

[yeahwho]

Not really. If you plan to "end" the war then you are planning to quit. That's my point, Obama is not planning to quit. He's just planning to keep fighting with less troops. I don't have a recipe for winning. I think we should probably get the fuck out, and I mean COMPLETELY out. We should not have been there in the first place. Barack shared my views not so many months ago until Brzezinski got hold of him and told him how to think like a good little robot.

I don't think your going to see the US completely out with either candidate in the next decade, realistically. That doesn't mean the candidates are identical on this issue, they have differences.

After moderator Gwen asked about an exit strategy for the U.S. in Iraq, Palin said, "we do have a plan for withdrawal" and "we don't need early withdrawal out of Iraq" before saying that the troop surge there has worked and that "it would be a travesty if we quit now in Iraq."

"With all due respect," Biden responded, "I didn't hear a plan. Barack Obama offered a clear plan: Shift responsibility to Iraqis over the next 16 months. Draw down our combat troops.

"For John McCain, there's no end in sight to end this war," Biden said. "That is a fundamental difference.

He said McCain was "dead wrong" about Iraq leading up to the war, alleging that the Arizona senator said that oil would pay for the conflict and that Sunni and Shiite Muslims got along with each other.

"As my mother would say, God love him, but he's been dead wrong on the fundamental issues relating to the conduct of the war," Biden said.

He said McCain "continues to tell us the central [front] on the [war] on terror is in Iraq."

"I promise you, if an attack is going to come to the homeland, it's ... going to come from al Qaeda planning in the hills of Afghanistan and Pakistan. That's where they live," Biden said.

[travesty]

I don't think your going to see the US completely out with either candidate in the next decade, realistically.
You are 100% correct
That doesn't mean the candidates are identical on this issue, they have minordifferences.

[D_Raay]

Well, it's quite simple really travesty... while you are highly skeptical, and rightfully so, the BEST chance we have to stop the bloodshed and the violence and blemishing of our reputation throughout the world is to back Obama. There are things he absolutely has to say, or else he risks being Ron Pauled or Ralph Nadered. There is quite simply too much money at stake for any real "mavericks" to come along and change policies that have slowly been forced on us in our names to benefit a select few. "It's a big club, and you ain't in it" as the late George Carlin put it.

I can't say for sure where the cards may fall, but I would bet that Obama is our only chance for any serious change. I almost don't want him to do it, for if he does well...

[yeahwho]

About 1% of that number. My point is that saying you are going to pull all US troops out of Iraq is HIGHLY, HIGHLY unlikely. Especially in the near term. History is against you. We still have significant numbers of troops in every country we have ever warred with or assisted. As of 2005 US troop levels in;
Japan-35,571
Germany- 76,058
Kuwait- 42,600
Korea- 30,983



BTW, there are 130,000 US troops in Iraq, how many exactly are in Kosovo

I understand your point, but the rational is what I'm not understanding, The United States has had a dominant planet earth presence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases) since WWII, and before that we were nothing to sneeze at either. This list does not take into account the Trident Operation whose payload alone is a formidable enough nuclear deterrent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_nuclear_missile) to stop any country from getting trigger happy. Still just scratching the surface as far as our defense. We're a pretty fucking scary Country.

Kosovo is contained. We're not throwing away lives, money, good faith and resources into Kosovo. Perhaps someday soon, it may take a few decades if we get started now, we can say the same for Iraq. we're hemorrhaging and getting down to low blood levels in Iraq, it's cost us dearly and continues to wreak complete death, injury and psychological damage we've still not completely grasped, the meds are here though waiting for these troops to come home.

This is a serious mess, with pressure mounting from all sides, we've got to move and we've got to move soon, read the policies and issues pages of these candidates. Murder as a policy is not good juju.

[jennyb]

This is how we got Bush for 8 years. A large percentage of the american voting public prefers people who don't know much but say things with utter confidence. People who admit that the issues are complicated and who know too much to pretend that there are simplistic answers lose. With an attitude like that, we deserve what we get. A straight-up criminal psychopath would be your ideal candidate for president.

Within minutes of the debate ending, the press reported that Biden was right and Palin was wrong. She also named the wrong military leader in Afghanistan. Not that it matters to anyone except the people who are already voting for Obama.

This gets into an issue that has bugged the shit out of me for the whole Bush administration. The truth doesn't matter. I know it's not news to anyone -- Colbert made a career off it. But it's fucking depressing.

Oh Doc u rule...(y)

The whole (squealy nails on a chalk board voice) "say it ain't so, Joe ;)" shit interjected into a VP debate personally made me wanna scream out of disbelief this was happening... If you can't dazzle em with brilliance baffle 'em with bullshit I guess eh?

What I really got out of the debate is 'maverick maverick maverick new cue lure gee gosh darn newbie shucky darn McClellan civil war, no Afghanistan guy I mean maverick maverick' and that Joe Biden's family is infinitely more interesting, cool and beautiful. GO OBIDEN OH EIGHT! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! *cheerleader jump*

[yeahwho]

Oh Doc u rule...(y)

The whole (squealy nails on a chalk board voice) "say it ain't so, Joe ;)" shit interjected into a VP debate personally made me wanna scream out of disbelief this was happening... If you can't dazzle em with brilliance baffle 'em with bullshit I guess eh?

What I really got out of the debate is 'maverick maverick maverick new cue lure gee gosh darn newbie shucky darn McClellan civil war, no Afghanistan guy I mean maverick maverick' and that Joe Biden's family is infinitely more interesting, cool and beautiful. GO OBIDEN OH EIGHT! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! *cheerleader jump*

It is depressing isn't it... at the beginning when she asks "Is it OK to call you Joe?" then towards the end the obviously rehearsed "Say it ain't so Joe" line just makes me want to drive a Ford Maverick right over the stage. She knows nothing of the Black Sox or shoeless Joe Jackson. Why did she do that? Because she ain't smart enough to realize millions of Americans see right through her bullshit.

And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also

I might not respond to your post in a way that is actually related to anything you said, but I do like pudding. It's smooth and sweet. I think the american people will agree with me that pudding is good and that's what really matters here. You had the chance to state that you liked pudding and you chose not to. Liberal elitist pudding hater.

[RobMoney$]

It is depressing isn't it... at the beginning when she asks "Is it OK to call you Joe?" then towards the end the obviously rehearsed "Say it ain't so Joe" line just makes me want to drive a Ford Maverick right over the stage. She knows nothing of the Black Sox or shoeless Joe Jackson. Why did she do that? Because she ain't smart enough to realize millions of Americans see right through her bullshit.

Bullshit? You know Palin is a former sports broadcaster right?

Here's a link (http://www.sportsline.com/spin/story/11007357) to something you might get a kick out of Yeahwho.

[yeahwho]

Bullshit? You know Palin is a former sports broadcaster right?

Here's a link (http://www.sportsline.com/spin/story/11007357) to something you might get a kick out of Yeahwho.

(I like the one readers comments after the story, I think I could watch her read the sports news.....I just wouldn't want to hear it coming out of her mouth.}

She was a sportscaster, that's right. But the "Call you Joe" then the "Say it ain't so Joe" line was rehearsed. It was a soundbite.

Just like Biden's "Maverick" volley and Bush association's. What Sarah did do and I give her credit for it, she minimized the Bush presidency with having anything to do with the McCain/Palin ticket.

And to McCain's credit, this hug always looked forced (http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/mccain%20bush%20hug%20twn.jpg). It also shows he has some restraint, he should of gone Rambo on him after the dirt Bush dumped on his family in 2000.

I'm surprised your not all over the front page NYTimes story on the Obama/William Ayers association (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?hp)story the past two days.

[b i o n i c]

pfalin.