is it patriotic to be a secessionist?

[Dorothy Wood]

probably not. I wonder why people aren't getting more upset about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI

[kaiser soze]

Country First?

pfffft!

[DroppinScience]

The (far) North shall rise again? :eek:

[Documad]

Okay, this is where I'll quote the Salon.com article. Palin is unamerican? (http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican/)


It's not an original thought, but it's worth saying again: The Republican ticket is working hard this week to make Barack Obama’s tenuous connection to graying, ’60s revolutionary Bill Ayers a major campaign issue. But the Palins’ connection to anti-American extremism is much more central to their political biographies.

Imagine the uproar if Michelle Obama was revealed to have joined a black nationalist party whose founder preached armed secession from the United States and who enlisted the government of Iran in his cause? The Obama campaign would probably not have survived such an explosive revelation. Particularly if Barack Obama himself was videotaped giving the anti-American secessionists his wholehearted support just months ago.

[King PSYZ]

no double standard here folks, move along

[rirv]

Stop being so goddamned biased you bleeding heart, crying, campus liberals.

ALASKAN TIL I DIE!!

[saz]

sarah palin is a disgusting redneck jesus freak bimbo. she believes that she will "see jesus christ in her lifetime", as she's a total nut job who is horny for the apocalypse. seriously, fuck her and her husband and their blatant connections to the alaskan secessionist party. country first my ass.

[Bob]

i would like to hear robmoney's nonbiased (well, less biased) opinion on this

[RobMoney$]

Get serious.
This is a non-story and a pathetic attempt at character assassination of Palin.


OBAMA SUPPORTERS:
You're running against McCain, not Palin...FOCUS!

[King PSYZ]

FAIL

If you think this is a non-story the brainwashing has been completed...

This same women said at a rally for her as VICE-PRESIDENT and in support of the ticket she's running on with John McCain

"We see America as the greatest force for good in this world," Palin said at a fund-raising event in Colorado, adding, "Our opponent though, is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country."

Yet her links to anti-Americanism aren't nearly as shakey as the ones they're trying to use against Obama. Her own husband is/was a member of a SECESSIONIST PARTY that she's on video pledging support for...

So her and her family thinks America is so imperfect as to declare war against it and steal a state away from it.

Bill Ayers committed his crimes when Barack was 8... Barack's connection to him was as an educator and that's that.

The Palin's anti American rhetoric is very much their own and much more recent.

[Bob]

Get serious.
This is a non-story and a pathetic attempt at character assassination of Palin.


OBAMA SUPPORTERS:
You're running against McCain, not Palin...FOCUS!

why? it's not so much about her connection to the AIP that bothers me, if she weren't being a hypocrite i wouldn't give a shit about this story. but she is a hypocrite. she feels she has the moral ground to stand up on a stage and work a crowd up into a frenzy by calling obama "unpatriotic" and hyping up his tenuous connections to a guy who was a criminal when obama was 8 (something that, interestingly, you don't consider to be a non-story, but i know that can't be bias talking so i guess it must actually be relevant) even though she herself has much less tenuous connections to people who right now are so unpatriotic that they advocate secession from the united states.

you really don't see how this is a story? explain that, i'm not buying it.

[RobMoney$]

So because as Governor, she filmed an introductory video for an organization she is now a full card-carrying member?

I'm sure as Governor she's asked to speak to many different organizations via video or in person. That doesn't mean she supports their platform.

Non story.



...and as for Obama's connection to Ayres, although it's true Ayres committed the acts of violence when Obama was just a kid, it's also true that as an adult he still supported those same acts and said he'd do it again. Because he refuses to admit regret, he's still a radical today.
And the fact that Obama's was trying to downplay his association with him not only confirms Obama knew "this was a guy I don't want the public to know I'm associated with", but HE LIED to the American people to conceal the association.


Does Obama have any friends who actually like America?
His own wife even has a beef with us.

[King PSYZ]

I'm getting a migraine from the hypocrisy in your post Rob...

Jesus... Are you fucking serious?

Honestly, step out side your GOP postwhore self and honestly tell me you are cool with what you just typed...

She endorsed a FUCKING SECESSIONIST PARTY! Do you know what it means to be a secessionist? It means they belive in STEALING American soil to create their own country BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. THESE PEOPLE ENDORSE WAR AGAINST AMERICA and this nutbar has the GALL to elude to Obama not being patriotic or hating America?

For fucks sake, he's an educated Black man with the name Barack Hussein Obama running for president of the United States of America. If he didn't LOVE America, why put himself in that position? You have to love this country to overcome that hand, and he's doing it, right now!

His connection to Ayers is tennuous at best, and Obama has outright condemmed the past actions of Ayers EVEN THOUGH OBAMA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH AYERS TIME IN THE WEATHER UNDERGROUND. Get over it, I know you'd love to see a picture of Obama all Malcom X style with a AK-47 in his hand to pass around the internets but it's not there and won't happen. Ayers has been cleared by the state, if he wasn't he wouldn't be allowed to walk freely or be an educator.

Yet Palin CHOSE to endorse a secessionist party... She chose that position willingly and freely and her own husband is/was a member... Alot different than an aquaintance... she has bore this person's children.

You're fast shedding any credibility you could hope to salvage. Honestly, step out of your talking points and right wing blogs and see this UNBIASED and for what it is. Hypocrisy.

[Bob]

So because as Governor, she filmed an introductory video for an organization she is now a full card-carrying member?

I'm sure as Governor she's asked to speak to many different organizations via video or in person. That doesn't mean she supports their platform.

Non story.



...and as for Obama's connection to Ayres, although it's true Ayres committed the acts of violence when Obama was just a kid, it's also true that as an adult he still supported those same acts and said he'd do it again. Because he refuses to admit regret, he's still a radical today.
And the fact that Obama's was trying to downplay his association with him not only confirms Obama knew "this was a guy I don't want the public to know I'm associated with", but HE LIED to the American people to conceal the association.


Does Obama have any friends who actually like America?
His own wife even has a beef with us.

jesus christ

[Knuckles]

I seriously think Rob is just fucking with us.

[Laver1969]

I seriously think Rob is just fucking with us.

Does anyone else on here support McCain? You may be on to something because Rob is excellent at internet debating. Enough info, flames, and entertainment to make it interesting.

[NoFenders]

It's rather refreshing knowing that there's still a few that haven't been brainwashed.


:cool:

[King PSYZ]

And who said American's don't appreciate irony... your post is dripping with it...

[Bob]

I seriously think Rob is just fucking with us.

i want to believe

[NoFenders]

And who said American's don't appreciate irony... your post is dripping with it...


This is one American that appreciates everything he gets, both good and bad. I'm alive. That's really all I care about.


:cool:

[NoFenders]

i want to believe


Bull shit, you guys have too much fun.

If Rob wasn't around you'd all be kissing each others ass til your lips hurt.

You should be thankful there's actually people that disagree with you. ;-)



:cool:

[milleson]

I'm glad this thread had nothing to do with Texas.

I was worried for a moment.

[Bob]

I'm glad this thread had nothing to do with Texas.

I was worried for a moment.

i'm glad that sarah palin is not from texas

that would be too much for me

[QueenAdrock]

Isn't Alaska considered the Texas of the north? Huge state, people love guns and oil?

[Dorothy Wood]

So because as Governor, she filmed an introductory video for an organization she is now a full card-carrying member?

I'm sure as Governor she's asked to speak to many different organizations via video or in person. That doesn't mean she supports their platform.

Non story.



...and as for Obama's connection to Ayres, although it's true Ayres committed the acts of violence when Obama was just a kid, it's also true that as an adult he still supported those same acts and said he'd do it again. Because he refuses to admit regret, he's still a radical today.
And the fact that Obama's was trying to downplay his association with him not only confirms Obama knew "this was a guy I don't want the public to know I'm associated with", but HE LIED to the American people to conceal the association.


Does Obama have any friends who actually like America?
His own wife even has a beef with us.


from the los angeles times:

Over the years, Palin has actively courted the Alaska Independence Party, or AIP, an organization that supports Alaskan secession from the U.S. To be clear, we're not necessarily talking about friendly secession either: As the AIP's founder, Joe Vogler, told an interviewer in 1991: "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. ... And I won't be buried under their damn flag."


The McCain campaign denies that Palin ever joined the AIP. But while it is in dispute whether she attended its 1994 convention, she did visit the 2000 one and addressed AIP conventions in 2006 and 2008. Her husband, Todd, was a registered AIP member from 1995 to 2002, and the AIP leadership certainly considers her one of their own.

....

Video footage shows AIP Vice Chairman Dexter Clark describing Palin at the 2007 North American Secessionist Convention as an "AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town -- that was a nonpartisan job. But you get along to go along. She eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics, and well, I won't go into that." (No need to. The Alaska Legislature's ethics investigators are on the case.) Apparently with Palin in mind, Clark then went on to urge AIP members to "infiltrate" the major parties.


I hardly think it's a non-issue. the AIP hates america, so palin can't endorse them, then run around saying that obama hates america without being a hypocrite.

our country's fucking stupid. I want someone to fix it, not deny that anything needs to be fixed while simultaneously being sympathetic to a group who would secede by violent means if necessary.

and I know that obama isn't running against palin, but for god's sake, can't you realize that the very fact that mccain chose palin calls his decision-making abilities into question. HE MET HER ONCE BEFORE CHOOSING HER. ONCE. THAT IS FUCKING RIDICULOUS.


as for ayers, if you won't do the footwork and want to continue to believe he's an unrepentant terrorist, fine. he's spent the last 40 years turning his life around and working for education reform. he's a respected member of the chicago community and has done a lot to improve public education. while it's true obama played down his relationship with ayers, it's been proven that they were little more than friendly neighbors who happened to both be community activists.

it's also been shown that his quote of not regretting what he did was taken out of context. I wrote about that in the other thread, but I guess it wasn't sensational enough.

[abcdefz]

I still think we should have let the south go. I mean, that's what this great experiment was all about, right?

[rirv]

I still think we should have let the south go. I mean, that's what this great experiment was all about, right?

If that happened it would be like having Christian Taleban on your doorstep with nukes and all.

[kaiser soze]

hahaha!

palin booed at Philly/Rangers game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj24wJh5rPk

Even Flyers fans know a scoundrel when they see one

Hockey mom and patriot she is not

[Dorothy Wood]

I didn't hear the boos. :(

[Bob]

I didn't hear the boos. :(

me either. though i thought i heard a boo-urns

[abcdefz]

If that happened it would be like having Christian Taleban on your doorstep with nukes and all.


:rolleyes:


I'm more worried about Canada up there, just looming over us.

[kaiser soze]

more boos!!

yay!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXNetpeu_mk&eurl

[QueenAdrock]

i was saying boo-urns :(

[100% ILL]

Secessionism is often viewed as the highest form of pariotism. Looking back to the secession of the Southern States one does not have to search far to learn that these men did not take the desicion lightly. they felt it was the only way to fight against the Corporate machine. Today there are many secessionist movements.

http://www.federationofstates.org/SIPconstitution.htm

The Government of the absolute majority instead of the Government of the people is but the Government of the strongest interests; and when not efficiently checked, it is the most tyrannical and oppressive that can be devised.John C. Calhoun

http://www.federationofstates.org/


Agents of the Federal Union (USA), completely lacking jursidiction, who allege they are enforcing laws of the United States which also are null and void in the territory of the Confederate States of America made illegal and unlawful arrests of several members of the Washington County
Militia.

Here's a group of Native Americans

http://www.secessionist.us/

The United States was born during a time that secession and self determination were not only observed as inalienable rights but were practiced. Virginia set the example in June of 1776 by declaring her independence from Great Britain. She along with the twelve other colonies jointly declared their independence the following month. These were acts of secession and our Independence Day might rightly be called Secession Day.

The charter of the American Secession Project is simple. We desire to place the concept of secession in the mainstream of political thought. Our intent is to proclaim that secession is a viable and legal right and a practical solution to contemporary problems. Secondly, we desire to build a coalition of groups seeking autonomy and independence within the current United States. Mutual support for the concept of self-determination and secession will eventually benefit all groups seeking freedom.

[Bob]

i doubt that's the kind of patriotism palin's referring to in her rallies

[100% ILL]

i doubt that's the kind of patriotism palin's referring to in her rallies


With this election I'm begining to understand what my late grandfather meant. After returning from WWII he only voted once and that was for Kennedy. After he (Kennedy) was assassinated he never voted again. He hated politicians. He often said "They are all liars who don't give a damn about any of us."

The idealist in me wants to believe we can make a difference by voting. But realisticly It seems they are all liars who don't give a damn about any of us.

Think of it this way. Why would anyone want to be a cop? the pay and hours suck. The answer is the power over the "average" citizen. Why would anyone want to be President? You have to spend millions to get elected to a post that only pays $400,000. The answer is the same.

[Echewta]

I'm a firefighter who doesn't get paid because I like controling fire.

[Laver1969]

With this election I'm begining to understand what my late grandfather meant. After returning from WWII he only voted once and that was for Kennedy. After he (Kennedy) was assassinated he never voted again. He hated politicians. He often said "They are all liars who don't give a damn about any of us."

The idealist in me wants to believe we can make a difference by voting. But realisticly It seems they are all liars who don't give a damn about any of us.

Think of it this way. Why would anyone want to be a cop? the pay and hours suck. The answer is the power over the "average" citizen. Why would anyone want to be President? You have to spend millions to get elected to a post that only pays $400,000. The answer is the same.


Great points. One would argue that it isn't power but their passion to "make the world a better place".

I tend to think it's a lot of power and greed.

[saz]

Rob is excellent at internet debating.

ahahahaha good one.

[jennyb]

Ya know without Rob or the :cool: person we all would be sittin around this political forum blowin smoke up one another's asses. So it's all good - they deliver us the right wingers talking points right here for us, on a platter! (y)