Veiled Racism in GOP Attacks [Archive] - Beastie Boys Message Board

DroppinScience

10-09-2008, 04:18 PM

I'm sure the right-wingers will outright deny it (because, you know, it's subtle, and subtlety is never their strong suit), but guess what? It is happening.

Published on Thursday, October 9, 2008 by The San Francisco Chronicle
Veiled Racism Seen In New Attacks on Obama

by Joe Garofoli

As CNN's pundits wondered whether instant post-debate polls favoring Sen. Barack Obama meant he would win on election day, analyst David Gergen - who has been an adviser to Republican and Democratic presidents - stopped them.

"I think it's too early to declare victory, because Barack Obama is black," Gergen said Tuesday night. "And until we play out the issue of race in this country, I don't think we'll know and maybe (not until) late in the campaign."

While Obama's campaign has fended off racially rooted attacks since its inception, analysts say the ones surfacing in the past few days have been more overt, arriving as many undecided voters are making their final decision. They are part of a recent stream of attacks on his background, including his religion and his connections to a former '60s radical.

"It is the Willie Hortonization of Obama," said University of San Francisco associate professor of political science James Taylor. Horton, an African American man, was a Massachusetts felon who committed a rape and armed robbery while on a weekend furlough. Republican strategist Lee Atwater used a TV attack ad featuring Horton to create a negative impression of the 1988 Democratic nominee, former Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis, in the campaign's final months.
'Coded' language

Instead of using a grainy photo of a grizzled convict as Atwater did, the current attacks, analysts say, are embedded in "coded" language. They cite as examples Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin portraying Obama as a cultural outsider and friend to terrorists and the dismissive way his Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain, referred to Obama at their Tuesday night debate as "that one."

Other recent attacks include the unsubstantiated allegation on Fox News' "Hannity's America" Sunday that Obama's community organizing work in Chicago was "training for a radical overthrow of the government." The incendiary allegations - as well as the anti-Semitic background of the source of the allegation, commentator Andy Martin - went unchallenged and undisclosed by the host, conservative commentator Sean Hannity. Fox said that the program is the host's opinion, even though the allegation was presented as a documentary. Obama did not respond to Hannity's request for comment.

Martin wrote on his blog that "I am not a 'reporter' assembling facts for a morning newspaper. I am an analyst and expert opinion columnist. I take 'facts' that may or may not make sense in isolation, and I analyze them until patterns emerge and conclusions are apparent."

Then there have been the speakers at McCain-Palin rallies who continue, unchecked by the candidates, to refer to "Barack Hussein Obama" - the emphasis on his middle name is an implication that Obama, who is a Christian, is Muslim. The latest occurred Wednesday in Pennsylvania, when Bill Platt, the Lehigh County Republican chairman, mentioned Obama's former reluctance to wear an American flag lapel pin and said: "Think about how you'll feel on Nov. 5 if you see the news that Barack Obama, Barack Hussein Obama, is president of the United States."

McCain-Palin spokesman Paul Lindsay said, "We do not condone this inappropriate rhetoric, which distracts from the real questions of judgment, character and experience that voters will base their decisions on this November."
Shouts of 'terrorist'

Regardless, some attending McCain-Palin rallies are responding to this kind of incitement. The Secret Service is investigating press reports that someone might have said "kill him" after Palin tried to connect Obama to former Weather Underground leader Bill Ayers. Some attending McCain's rally Wednesday in Pennsylvania interrupted him with shouts of "socialist," "terrorist" and "liar."

Earlier this week, Palin told a group of donors in Colorado that "this is not a man who sees America like you and I see America." Obama, Palin said, "is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect, imperfect enough, that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country," a reference to Obama's connection with Ayers, now a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Conservative talk radio show host Rush Limbaugh echoed this attack by referring to Obama's "mentorship" by Ayers; Obama was in elementary school when Ayers and the Weather Underground were carrying out bombings.

Politico.com described Obama's relationship with Ayers: "There's no evidence their relationship is more than the casual friendship of two men who occupy overlapping Chicago political circles and who served together on the board of a Chicago foundation." FactCheck.org, a nonpartisan fact-checking organization, confirmed that description.

And during the week of Sept. 28-Oct. 4, "nearly 100 percent of the McCain campaign's advertisements were negative," according to the nonpartisan Wisconsin Advertising Project. "During the same period, 34 percent of the Obama campaign's ads were negative."

Democratic vice presidential nominee Sen. Joe Biden worried Wednesday that the Republicans are injecting "fear and loathing" into the campaign.

"The idea that a leading American politician who might be vice president of the United States would not just stop midsentence and turn and condemn that - it's just a slippery slope, it's a place that we shouldn't be going," Biden said Wednesday on NBC's "Today" show, referring to the shouts of "terrorist" at Palin's rallies.

"I mean, here you have out there these kinds of, you know, incitements out there - a guy introducing Barack using his middle name as if it's some epithet or something," he said on CBS Wednesday. "This is over the top."

These attacks are no different from the kind Atwater - the political mentor of Karl Rove - launched during the 1980s, said Stefan Forbes, director of the documentary "Boogieman: The Lee Atwater Story," which opens Friday in San Francisco.

"I don't see how the Democrats don't understand the Lee Atwater playbook. His tactics have been winning elections, even after his death" in 1991, Forbes said. The Horton campaign "represented the triumph of spin and smear over the issues. They know that if you wrap things in the flag, you can sell anything."

The key to Atwater's success was that the candidates themselves remained above the fray.

"They were friendly, like (Ronald) Reagan," Forbes said. "Just like now, Palin is the friendly face, or George W. Bush was the guy you wanted to have a beer with. They'll dance around it and say (these tactics) aren't racist, but they are.

"The next couple of weeks are going to be really fascinating," Forbes said. "If the Atwater playbook can destroy Obama when the economy is collapsing the way it is, then it can accomplish almost anything."

But Stanford University political science Professor Paul Sniderman, who recently completed a survey on racial attitudes of voters, doesn't think the attacks will work. He also said widely circulated media reports that said "Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice" were wrong.

jennyb

10-09-2008, 04:38 PM

RobMoney$

10-09-2008, 05:51 PM

Yeah, I don't even know what to say but has anyone seen this video of McCain supporters outside a Bethleham, PA rally? Creepy beyond any stretch of imagination. I mean, wow. Racism and hatred are alive and well apparently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us)
:(

W.
T.
F.
?

I watched it from begining to end.
Not one example of racism to be found.
Hippie, scum, Get a job, Socialist scum,...nothing racist about any of that.
In fact, an overwhelming majority of the Obama protesters were white, so I'm not getting the racism charge at all.
Lehigh is a very prestigious University located in a pristine area. I'd say 99.9% of the population is going to be white, so no surprise at all for the representatives on both sides of the fence IMO.
Just your garden variety insults being hurled between Dems and Repubs.

EDIT: Ok, I just watched it again and saw exactly one black guy out of about two dozen whites demonstrating for Obama. One.
Please explain your claim of racism Jenny.

ToucanSpam

10-09-2008, 05:59 PM

RobMoney$

10-09-2008, 06:02 PM

You know, I've heard people make idiotic comments like being concerned that blacks may riot if Obama isn't elected.
I've also heard other comments that people are voting for Obama because they aren't racist.

Both are equally stupid opinions and annoy me.

It's disheartening, but race is definitely going to factor into this election and to deny it is pointless.

RobMoney$

10-09-2008, 06:07 PM

When MacCain referred to Obama as 'That One' in the second presidential debate, it was either thinly veiled racism or he is an incredibly rude man.

I've never seen someone so calm after being referred to like that. Kudos to Obama for ignoring MacCain's douchebaggery.

Yeah, I laugh at anyone who points to that as racism too.
"That One" is racist now. LOLZ

Bottom line is he PWN'd Obama with that line and the Obama supporters figure the easiest way to respond to that is to throw the race card in front of it. So lame.

jennyb

10-09-2008, 06:11 PM

"Obama's a Muslim! He's a terrorist!" being shouted from the mob. Seems to me as evidence this subtle message is inciting something.... that's all I'm sayin'.

Bob

10-09-2008, 06:22 PM

also "commie faggots"

i guess gay isn't a race though, so yeah, no racism there, they're clean

neither is muslim

maybe no racism there, just good ol' fashioned ignorance

RobMoney$

10-09-2008, 06:25 PM

maybe no racism there, just good ol' fashioned ignorance

I can't argue with you on that.

Dorothy Wood

10-09-2008, 06:42 PM

1. rob, it's extremely disconcerting that you didn't see anything wrong with that video of mccain supporters. I don't know that it was racist, but the unbridled nonsensical hate that spewed out of their faces was unbelievable and really sad. to be fair, I couldn't hear what the demonstrators were saying.

2. I don't think "that one" was racist. I think it was just plain disrespectful and a little creepy. I do think that when he said, "you probably hadn't even heard of fannie may and freddie mac before recently" to that black guy who asked a question it seemed a little racist. even if the guy hadn't heard of fannie and freddie, it's kind of rude to assume something like that. maybe he said it in regard to the kid's age (he seemed pretty young), but I can see how it might be construed as subconscious racism. I certainly got the heebie jeebies when he said it.

Bob

10-09-2008, 06:44 PM

2. I don't think "that one" was racist. I think it was just plain disrespectful and a little creepy. I do think that when he said, "you probably hadn't even heard of fannie may and freddie mac before recently" to that black guy who asked a question it seemed a little racist. even if the guy hadn't heard of fannie and freddie, it's kind of rude to assume something like that. maybe he said it in regard to the kid's age (he seemed pretty young), but I can see how it might be construed as subconscious racism.

i didn't think he was saying it specifically to the guy who asked the question, i thought he was using the royal "you", just sort of speaking to america generally. i mean it's still condescending but i didn't think he was talking directly to the guy.

RobMoney$

10-09-2008, 06:46 PM

"Obama's a Muslim! He's a terrorist!" being shouted from the mob. Seems to me as evidence this subtle message is inciting something.... that's all I'm sayin'.

There is some debate about that actually. I think I can shed some light on where the "Obama is a Muslim" claim comes from.
It's not so much that he's muslim or christian that people are concerned with (at least I'm not). It's whether or not he lied to the American public about it because he does claim on his website that he's never been a muslim, he's a christian and worships at the Christ Trinity Church in Chicago.
But when you hear someone yell "He's a Muslim" out of context and without explanation, it does sound racist.

We come back to the basic fact that "America" doesn't really know Obama or what he stands for, and considering people are losing hundreds and thousands of dollars every day from their 401k's, they're afraid of the unknown.
Also, people love conspiricy theories and that they somehow know the real truth that they don't want you to know. "Obama is really a Muslim" plays to those folks.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080309151637AAJMhgx

The "An American Expat in Southeast Asia" blog reports that Obama's Indonesian schooling began when he was entered into the Roman Catholic, Franciscus Assisi Primary School on January 1, 1968 and sat in class 1B. He was registered under the name Barry Soetoro, serial number 203. School documents listed Barry Soetoro as an Indonesian citizen and his religion was listed as Islam. He will spend three years at Franciscus.

Catholic schools accept non-Catholics worldwide. Non-Catholic students are typically excused from religious instruction and ceremony.

1971
Obama's family moves from H Ramir Street to Dempo Street and Obama enters the 4th grade at the Besuki Primary School, a government school. He was enrolled as Barry Soetoro, Muslim.

1971
All Indonesian students are required to study religion at school and a young Barry Soetoro, being a Muslim, would have been required to study Islam daily in school.

He would have been taught to read and write Arabic, to recite his prayers properly, to read and recite from the Quran and to study the laws of Islam.

In his autobiography, "Dreams From My Father," Obama mentions studying the Quran and describes the public school as "a Muslim school."

According to Tine Hahiyary, one of Obama's teachers and the principal from 1971 through 1989, Barry actively took part in the Islamic religious lessons during his time at the school. His teacher was named Maimunah and she lived in the Puncak area, the Cianjur Regency. "I remembered that he had studied "mengaji" (recitation of the Quran)" Tine said.

Obama himself recalls, "In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies."

Our guy in Jakarta writes: "The actual usage of the word 'mengaji' in Indonesian and Malaysian societies means the study of learning to recite the Quran in the Arabic language rather than the native tongue. "Mengagi" is a word and a term that is accorded the highest value and status in the mindset of fundamentalist societies here in Southeast Asia. To put it quite simply, 'mengaji classes' are not something that a non practicing or so-called moderate Muslim family would ever send their child to. To put this in a Christian context, this is something above and beyond simply enrolling your child in Sunday school classes."

"The fact that Obama had attended mengaji classes is well known in Indonesia and has left many there wondering just when Obama is going to come out of the closet."

"As I've stated before, the evidence seems to quite clearly show that both Ann Dunham and her husband Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo were in fact devout Muslims themselves and they raised their son as such."

Bob

10-09-2008, 06:52 PM

so obama is in trouble for choosing to attend the services of a radical (christian) minister AND he's in trouble for being a muslim? guy can't catch a break.

also, i disagree with your characterization of peoples' concerns about obama's muslim status. i believe you when you say you're concerned about the things you're saying you're concerned about, but i really do think that most people who spout the "he's a muslim" stuff are just not fond of muslims (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wroj0FLvzs).

i mean i know that video is an extreme example, but i really have trouble believing that most people in the "i don't want no muslim presdent" camp are quite so familiar with the conspiracy theory

RobMoney$

10-09-2008, 06:55 PM

Yeah, maybe I'm projecting a bit.

Dorothy Wood

10-09-2008, 07:13 PM

just because obama studied islam when he was a child, doesn't mean he's a muslim. I went to Lutheran school from 3rd-6th grade and I'm not Lutheran, or a christian anymore for that matter.

I can tell that the people who are most scared of muslims are just ignorant. I had a world history class in college that dealt with the middle east before the year 1500. I learned all about islam and had to write a lot about it and to tell you the truth it's a beautiful religion rooted in people being good. but, like any religion, christianity included, it's been twisted and perverted by some groups into something that's more about power than spirituality.

frankly, I'm glad that obama had that experience as a child. we need a person in office who understands and respects other people's views and isn't afraid of them.

Documad

10-09-2008, 08:55 PM

What bothers me more is that McCain and Palin will stand in front of a crowd, making a speech, mention Obama, raise questions about whether he is a good american, and people in the audience yell, "kill him" and McCain and Palin don't react.

You can't control everyone who attends a speech, but if the audience starts to do that, and if you're a decent human being, you stop the speech and say, "well, Mr. Obama and I both love our country but we disagree on what the government should do next." You don't allow, and yes encourage, the crowd to call for violence against your opponent. The answer is the same whether your opponent is black or white. But if your opponent is black and if you stand there night after night while your racist fans call for his death and you continue to do nothing, you're a downright nasty human being.

RobMoney$

10-09-2008, 09:40 PM

What bothers me more is that McCain and Palin will stand in front of a crowd, making a speech, mention Obama, raise questions about whether he is a good american, and people in the audience yell, "kill him" and McCain and Palin don't react.

I'd like to see video evidence that this happened because I find that hard to believe. Admittedly, I'm new to supporting a GOP candidate, but if that's true that's a game changer.

Bob

10-09-2008, 09:57 PM

I'd like to see video evidence that this happened because I find that hard to believe. Admittedly, I'm new to supporting a GOP candidate, but if that's true that's a game changer.

maybe she gets around (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wroj0FLvzs)

edit: wait, no, i'm sorry, she was a hillary supporter, she wouldn't be at a mccain rally

Documad

10-09-2008, 10:02 PM

I'd like to see video evidence that this happened because I find that hard to believe. Admittedly, I'm new to supporting a GOP candidate, but if that's true that's a game changer.

Watch MSNBC for a few hours and you will be sure to see some of the clips.

kaiser soze

10-09-2008, 10:19 PM

ya know I was going to post about this and then I was like enough

what is it worth?

we already know where mccain already stands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNGXB_qx0xk

Laver1969

10-09-2008, 10:23 PM

I'd like to see video evidence that this happened because I find that hard to believe. Admittedly, I'm new to supporting a GOP candidate, but if that's true that's a game changer.

Here's a huffington article with a couple of videos in there...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06/mccain-does-nothing-as-cr_n_132366.html

kaiser soze

10-09-2008, 10:25 PM

ahh yeah

Bob

10-09-2008, 10:34 PM

Here's a huffington article with a couple of videos in there...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06/mccain-does-nothing-as-cr_n_132366.html

now see, that's just liberal bias. he didn't say "kill him," he said "treason." now i know the penalty for treason is death, but you're a liberal and you don't believe in the death penalty, so you're just trying to spin this, you see

RobMoney$

10-09-2008, 10:38 PM

Here's a huffington article with a couple of videos in there...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06/mccain-does-nothing-as-cr_n_132366.html

McCain winced and had a "WTF?" look on his face when that dope said that.
Sometimes it's better to just ignore dopes like that than stop the entire speech and acknowledge them, even to chastize them.

kaiser soze

10-09-2008, 10:45 PM

oh noes!

Laver1969

10-09-2008, 10:46 PM

McCain winced and had a "WTF?" look on his face when that dope said that.
Sometimes it's better to just ignore dopes like that than stop the entire speech and acknowledge them, even to chastize them.

I guess there's a fine line between tapping into people's passion and tapping into true anger/hate.

I know I saw a clip of McCain disagreeing with folks playing the "hussein" card a while ago. But now it's fair game I guess.

Rev. Wright will be next on the list. So get ready for Obama to revisit the Keating 5 and the Rev. Hagee stories.

kaiser soze

10-09-2008, 10:49 PM

we need to put an end to this bi-paritsonshit and make a true change of togetherness in thse world

Documad

10-09-2008, 10:53 PM

Read the follow up stories. This is part of their plan now. One nut saying something in the crowd is just a nut. If you encourage the nuts night after night by throwing raw meat at them, then you're inciting it.

Nevermind that the red meat they're using to incite the crowd are fucking lies and they know they're lies.

The good news is that it isn't working. It's backfiring big time. Because of that, I'd expect it to stop. No independents want to be part of the crowd they're seeing in those republican rallies.

I saw better footage of a "kill him" rally on TV. The "treason" comment is more prevalent, which is funny because the only persons who came close to treason would be Palin and her hubby.

Bob

10-09-2008, 11:04 PM

McCain winced and had a "WTF?" look on his face when that dope said that.
Sometimes it's better to just ignore dopes like that than stop the entire speech and acknowledge them, even to chastize them.

I expect McCain and Palin to come out and denounce it as Obama did when he called the Palins' private lives off-limits. Silence on something like this equals acquiescence to its message.

yeahwho

10-10-2008, 01:13 AM

All I know is, ONLY John McCain has the courage to get to the bottom of OVERHEAD PROJECTOR GATE. Only John McCain has the courage to do something about bear semen subsidies. Not "that one".

roosta

10-10-2008, 02:52 AM

this is from FOX NEWS of all places...

While Obama is far outspending McCain, the Republican nominee's ads were nearly 100 percent negative in the first week of October, compared with 34 percent of Obama's ads, according to the report.

In fact, amazingly the entire article (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/09/campaign-turns-negative-election-day-nears/) is no where near as lob-sided as you'd expect.

QueenAdrock

10-10-2008, 02:54 AM

McCain winced and had a "WTF?" look on his face when that dope said that.
Sometimes it's better to just ignore dopes like that than stop the entire speech and acknowledge them, even to chastize them.

I'd agree with that if it was something stupid like "He's a Muslim!" or something similar. Something that's just considered to be a wild accusation or an insult. If they're nutjobs, just let them be nutjobs by themselves.

However, threatening bodily harm on someone should NEVER go ignored. His "WTF" face shows that yes, he did hear the comment, and by him not saying anything about it reinforces the idea that it's okay to say such a thing. McCain's rallies have been getting increasingly more hateful, so it's up to him to put his foot down and tell them what's not acceptable.

QueenAdrock

10-10-2008, 02:58 AM

this is from FOX NEWS of all places...

In fact, amazingly the entire article (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/09/campaign-turns-negative-election-day-nears/) is no where near as lob-sided as you'd expect.

Yeah, but according to Cindy, Obama has run the dirtiest campaign known to man. When I heard CINDY come out and say something, that said to me that McCain is really desperate and must have given her a talking-to. She previously said that she was going to stay out of politics and just support her husband on the sidelines, that she didn't feel comfortable stumping for him or getting overly involved. Her being an attack dog now says to me that McCain must have told her "You come out and attack Obama too, or you'll never see us move to Washington, D.C."

Either way, they're trying to rip every last thing up they can about him. ANYthing they can get, they'll use. They must have seen the poll numbers, become terrified, and are trying to do anything possible to get those last few voters to come to their side. It just reeks of desperation.

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 10:36 AM

You wonder who the racists really are these days. Or maybe a better question, who really wants racism to end?

It's very pathetic that this is rolling already. This will only get worse, and god help everyone if Obama looses.

It's serioulsy fucked up. I can't stand it. There's very few things that bother me more than racism. I have no patience for it. And the truth of the matter is, it's alive where you think it never existed.Obama's voters are just as racist as McCain's. Fact. It doesn't mean anything other than there's class A jag offs running around that need to be slapped into next year.

:mad:

:cool:

saz

10-10-2008, 12:01 PM

yeah, democratic supporters at obama rallies are calling mccain and palin "terrorists", "traitors" and also calling out loud to "kill" them. :rolleyes:

A billboard in West Plains, Mo., showing a caricature of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama wearing a turban has caused quite a stir in town.

The sign, located south of West Plains on U.S. 63 across from the Dairy Queen, says: “Barack ‘Hussein’ Obama equals more abortions, same sex marriages, taxes, gun regulations.”

http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081009/BLOGS09/81009018

saz

10-10-2008, 12:05 PM

Sometimes it's better to just ignore dopes like that than stop the entire speech and acknowledge them, even to chastize them.

except when they have guns and serious rage issues, and then go on a shooting rampage, just like at that church in tennessee.

http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=87864

DroppinScience

10-10-2008, 12:05 PM

If the campaign and the candidates are veiling their racism, their supporters sure are vocal about it. Fucking dumbasses. And it's contemptible that McCain and Palin do not speak out on it.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/10-8

Published on Friday, October 10, 2008 by Politico.com
Panic Attacks: Voters Unload at GOP Rallies

by Jonathan Martin

The unmistakable momentum behind Barack Obama's campaign, combined with worry that John McCain is not doing enough to stop it, is ratcheting up fears and frustrations among conservatives.

And nowhere is this emotion on plainer display than at Republican rallies, where voters this week have shouted out insults at the mention of Obama, pleaded with McCain to get more aggressive with the Democrat and generally demonstrated the sort of visceral anger and unease that reflects a party on the precipice of panic.

The calendar is closing and the polls, at least right now, are not.

With McCain passing up the opportunity to level any tough personal shots in his first two debates and the very real prospect of an Obama presidency setting in, the sort of hard-core partisan activists who turn out for campaign events are venting in unusually personal terms.

"Terrorist!" one man screamed Monday at a New Mexico rally after McCain voiced the campaign's new rhetorical staple aimed at raising doubts about the Illinois senator: "Who is the real Barack Obama?"

"He's a damn liar!" yelled a woman Wednesday in Pennsylvania. "Get him. He's bad for our country."

At both stops, there were cries of, "Nobama," picking up on a phrase that has appeared on yard signs, T-shirts and bumper stickers.

And Thursday, at a campaign town hall in Wisconsin, one Republican brought the crowd to its feet when he used his turn at the microphone to offer a soliloquy so impassioned it made the network news and earned extended play on Rush Limbaugh's program.

"I'm mad; I'm really mad!" the voter bellowed. "And what's going to surprise ya, is it's not the economy - it's the socialists taking over our country."

After the crowd settled down he was back at it. "When you have an Obama, Pelosi and the rest of the hooligans up there gonna run this country, we gotta have our head examined!"

Such contempt for Democrats is, of course, nothing new from conservative activists. But in 2000 and 2004, the Republican rank and file was more apt to ridicule Gore as a stiff fabulist or Kerry as an effete weather vane of a politician.

"Flip-flop, flip-flop," went the cry at Republican rallies four years ago, often with footwear to match the chant.

Now, though, the emotion on display is unadulterated anger rather than mocking.

Activists outside rallies openly talk about Obama as a terrorist, citing his name and purported ties to Islam in the fashion of the viral e-mails that have rocketed around the Internet for over a year now.

Some of this activity is finding its way into the events, too.

On Thursday, as one man in the audience asked a question about Obama's associations, the crowd erupted in name-calling.

"Obama Osama!" one woman called out.

And twice this week, local officials have warmed up the crowd by railing against "Barack Hussein Obama."

Both times, McCain's campaign has issued statements disavowing the use of the Democrat's full name.
A McCain aide said they tell individuals speaking before every event not to do so. "Sometimes people just do what they want," explained the aide.

The raw emotions worry some in the party who believe the broader swath of swing voters are far more focused on their dwindling retirement accounts than on Obama's background and associations and will be turned off by footage of the McCain events.

John Weaver, McCain's former top strategist, said top Republicans have a responsibility to temper this behavior.

"People need to understand, for moral reasons and the protection of our civil society, the differences with Sen. Obama are ideological, based on clear differences on policy and a lack of experience compared to Sen. McCain," Weaver said. "And from a purely practical political vantage point, please find me a swing voter, an undecided independent, or a torn female voter that finds an angry mob mentality attractive."

"Sen. Obama is a classic liberal with an outdated economic agenda. We should take that agenda on in a robust manner. As a party we should not and must not stand by as the small amount of haters in our society question whether he is as American as the rest of us. Shame on them and shame on us if we allow this to take hold."

But, if it were up to them, such hard-edged tactics are clearly what many in the party base would like to use against Obama.

That McCain has so far seemed reluctant to do so has frustrated Republicans.

"It's time that you two are representing us, and we are mad," reiterated the boisterous Republican at McCain's town hall in Wisconsin Thursday. "So go get 'em!"

"I am begging you, sir, I am begging you - take it to him," pleaded James T. Harris, a local talk radio host at the same event, earning an extended standing ovation.

"Yosemite Sam is having the law laid down to him today in Waukesha, Wis.," quipped Limbaugh on his show Thursday, referring to the GOP nominee. "This guy, this audience member, is exactly right," the conservative talk show host said of the first individual.

"You are running for president. You have a right to defend this country. You have a responsibility to defend this country and not just fulfill some dream you had eight years ago running for president against Bush. It's time to start naming names and explain what's actually going on, because, Sen. McCain, the people of this country are dead scared about what we face if you lose."

John J. Pitney Jr., a political science professor at California's Claremont McKenna College and former Republican operative, suggested core Republicans were acting out their longstanding frustrations with their self-proclaimed maverick nominee.

"McCain has always frustrated the Republican base," Pitney said. "In this campaign, he has alternated between partisan attacks and calls for bipartisan cooperation. It's nice that he thinks he can round up congressional votes the way a border collie rounds up sheep. But you can't be a border collie and a pit bull at the same time. The crowds want a pit bull."

There is also the belief that taking out Obama is the only way to win.

"They know that when McCain has taken off the Senate mantle and put the stick to Obama (celebrity ad, as a case in point), we get movement in the polls," said Rick Wilson, a GOP consultant not working on the presidential race. "They want McCain to call out Obama - on the Fannie/Freddie mess, on Wright, on Ayers, on guns, on [the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now] - because they know that if McCain says it, it penetrates the MSM filter. ... Only McCain and Palin can really drive that message."

The two have begun to get more aggressive on many of these topics, with both discussing Ayers in multiple venues Thursday. The RNC is also going up for the first time with an ad featuring the former domestic terrorist.

It was enough to stir hope that McCain may stay on the offensive, even in Limbaugh, who has often criticized the Arizona senator for working with Democrats more than attacking them. The radio host praised his sometimes-nemesis for singling out Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) and Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) as partly responsible for the credit crisis.

"McCain/Palin fired back today in Waukesha, and 15 years of frustration is coming out joyously in the voices of GOP supporters at these rallies," Limbaugh wrote in an e-mail, arguing that Republicans were fed up with having been portrayed as the bogeyman for myriad issues since the Clinton years.

But to the exasperation of many in the party, Obama's pastor, the most damning of all his associations, remains off-limits, at the express desire of McCain. Palin ignored Wright and focused on Ayers when she was asked about the two in an interview Thursday with conservative talk show host Laura Ingraham. And McCain focused on Ayers only when he was asked an open-ended question at the town hall about Obama's "associations."

"It is a shame McCain took Wright off the table," lamented one prominent Republican operative not working on the race. "He is a legitimate issue, and we may look back and realize he was the issue that could have changed the race."

For now, though, party members don't seem to be looking back with regret as much as fearing what lies ahead.

"McCain is behind in the polls, and the Republicans have no chance of regaining control of Congress," Pitney noted. "Republicans are facing the prospect of unified Democratic control of the government for the first time since the first two Clinton years. And even then, Clinton's agenda had moderate elements (e.g., [the North American Free Trade Agreement] and deficit reduction). With Obama, [Senate Majority Leader Harry] Reid and [House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi in power, Republicans worry about a hard push for a hard-left agenda."

Amie Parnes contributed to this story.

Personally, the way they're acting is similar to the treatment UN Ambassador Adlai Stevenson got in Dallas just a month or two before JFK's assassination.

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 12:08 PM

mccain and palin rallies are just a few hoods short of a klan gathering

see the pics, how much diversity is there? .01 percent or so?

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 01:06 PM

yeah, democratic supporters at obama rallies are calling mccain and palin "terrorists", "traitors" and also calling out loud to "kill" them. :rolleyes:

Your talking about a few radicals that were on tape. It certainly goes both ways in this circumstance. It's just some focus on what they want to see, and turn a blind eye if it fits their agenda. Racism is alive on both sides, and that sucks.

If you honestly think that there's not people voting for Obama just because he's black, you're seriously out of touch with reality.

It goes both ways. It always has.

Hard to imagine anyone in today's society would even argue the notion.

:cool:

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 01:08 PM

mccain and palin rallies are just a few hoods short of a klan gathering

see the pics, how much diversity is there? .01 percent or so?

I have a hard time telling who's more racist. You're jumping to conclusions. "A few hoods short"?

:cool:

AceFace

10-10-2008, 01:54 PM

i just posted this movie in a different thread, but it pertains to this one as well.

American Blackout:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5965670944815984616

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 02:52 PM

awesome aceface (y)

I have a hard time telling who's more racist. You're jumping to conclusions. "A few hoods short"?

:cool:

Well after watching a few videos of mccain and palin I have seen maybe one or two black people....yes, from the way mccain and palin are dehumanizing Obama and the comments people are making I believe people are starting to show their true colors

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 03:07 PM

Well, in that case, I take it you don't get out much if you just now realise racism is alive and well from both white and black people.

Here's a tip, try not to take things out of control in your thought process. Realise that hate lives in people of all color, and just because somebody doesn't highlight it for you to take note of, doesn't mean everything's fine and dandy in ObamaLand.

Go beyond it. Be better than that. Make it clear that you don't stand for it for any party or person in general. Don't lead people to believe that a McCain supporter is racist. It will end very badly, for false information.

Only the true ignornat ones will keep this in their radar.

:cool:

AceFace

10-10-2008, 03:20 PM

awesome aceface (y)

that movie is amazing, it really made me feel for people that have to go through life being treated poorly due to their color.

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 03:25 PM

I agree with you nofenders, there is racism everywhere....But this is not a time to have be a part (veiled or obvious) when in politics and I certainly do not want another man with little tolerance for diversity and respect for culture and ethnicity in the White House.

I and I'm sure many of this nation will not tolerate intolerance

Here's a video of mccain a few years ago using the word tar baby

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNGXB_qx0xk

Here's another video of a guy introducing mccain...making a curious statement about Tiger Woods

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhZEJiu03MU

mccain and Gook

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2rpvj9NSXM

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 03:42 PM

So you're calling McCain a racist, is that right?

:confused:

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 04:11 PM

I don't know....what do tar baby and gook imply to you?

are they characters in the Christmas Story?

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 05:03 PM

I can't see youtube from here. Did he call somebody a tar baby or gook? Who were they and what did they do about it?

:cool:

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 05:27 PM

mccain and palin camp defend the mob mentality

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/10/1529529.aspx

Earlier today, Obama remarked on recent outbursts of "Traitor!" "Terrorist!" and "Kill him!" at McCain campaign events. "It's easy to rile up a crowd," Obama said. "Nothing's easier than riling up a crowd by stoking anger and division. But that's not what we need right now in the United States."

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 05:43 PM

I can't see youtube from here. Did he call somebody a tar baby or gook? Who were they and what did they do about it?

:cool:

Well??

:cool:

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 05:46 PM

well what?

click on the links

:cool:

Also, if mccain and palin do not condem these outbursts and threats from the crowd they are in fact condoning terrorist like behavior making them implicit in the act of terrorism which I'm sure is somewhere in the Patriot Act :rolleyes:

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 05:56 PM

Pathetic.

:cool:

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 05:57 PM

I strive to be like you

oh shit, that means I have to come vewy close to calling someone a bitch

:cool:

HA!

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 05:59 PM

You're 12, so ya got a lot work ahead of ya,

:cool:

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 05:59 PM

I strive to be like you

oh shit, that means I have to come vewy close to calling someone a bitch

:cool:

HA!

Ha?

You really are 12. What's Santa bringin ya?

:cool:

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 06:00 PM

I strive to be like you

oh shit, that means I have to come vewy close to calling someone a bitch

:cool:

HA!

Nice edit too by the way. How can you edit posts without an edit message??

:cool:

Knuckles

10-10-2008, 06:01 PM

Nice edit too by the way. How can you edit posts without an edit message??

:cool:

you gotta be quick on the draw cowboy

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 06:02 PM

Doesn't make much sense.

But we'll see.

:cool:

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 06:03 PM

You got a problem??? :cool:

thanks for the IM, why not just post it in here?

chicken?

:cool:

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 06:05 PM

I'd rather not be a 12 year old and ruin thread with more child like repsonses from one or another. If you want to keep it here, whatever, let the mods decide.

Now answer the question.

:cool:

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 06:05 PM

no I do not have a problem

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

NoFenders

10-10-2008, 06:06 PM

Keep it that way.

(y)

:cool:

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 06:09 PM

:rolleyes:

Knuckles

10-10-2008, 06:10 PM

Doesn't make much sense.

But we'll see.

:cool:

If you change it right after you post it won't show the edit message.

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 06:13 PM

I edited to add the fact that I might have to call someone a bitch to more like you NoFenders....

sorry for the edit, I hope you're bitching out Rob$ for all his edits....golly

now grow up and learn to respect women

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 06:48 PM

OH SNAP!!!

mccain comes around and "denounces" his crowds comments. Is this coming from the Onion or something???

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/mccain_denounces_pitchforkwave.html

But, he says, "I respect Sen. Obama and his accomplishments." People booed at the mention of his name. McCain, visibly angry, stopped them: "I want EVERYONE to be respectful, and lets make sure we are."

UPDATE: Indeed, he just snatched the microphone out the hands of a woman who began her question with, "I'm scared of Barack Obama... he's an Arab terrorist..."

"No, no ma'am," he interrupted. "He's a decent family man with whom I happen to have some disagreements."

:cool:

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 06:58 PM

kaiser soze

10-10-2008, 07:04 PM

mccain begrudgingly reminds his mob that Obama is a person they shouldn't be scared of.

What is it that they are scared of?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hez7W9pAS5k&eurl

seriously, what is the collective IQ at these rallies?

jennyb

10-10-2008, 07:27 PM

This is seriously commendable and my respect for John McCain has tripled. Shit, he keeps this up he'll make me question my vote........

Documad

10-10-2008, 07:42 PM

This is seriously commendable and my respect for John McCain has tripled. Shit, he keeps this up he'll make me question my vote........

McCain is still running TV ads saying that Obama worked with a terrorist. He is in charge of his campaign. He started this bullshit. He can make it stop. He can make Palin stop.

McCain has seen the polling showing that the outrageous racist shit is not working. It's playing to his base but turning off independents. So he has decided to change tactics. (Our state senate candidate announced today that he is canceling his negative ads after putting nothing but negative character ads on TV.)

McCain couldn't be in a worse position. He encouraged his ugly supporters to call for Obama's head and then he had people say vile things right to his face. He had to defend Obama as an american and a decent man, and he got booed by his base. Hilarious.

And as I've been typing all this, Lawrence O'Donnell just came on TV and said it. But I was typing it already!!!!

Documad

10-10-2008, 07:44 PM

If this isn't racism....then what is it?

What does being an Arab have anything to do with anything if these people are not racist?

video of the comment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YIq5Q15L1o&eurl

:cool:

I just want to point out that those were Minnesota citizens at a rally in one of the newest and most rural suburbs.

God damn it.

(McCain never has a rally in Minneapolis. He doesn't have the balls for that. :rolleyes:)

jennyb

10-10-2008, 07:50 PM

I did have a bit of sarcasm in my remark, but yeah, after seeing that film about Lee Atwater and Karl Rove last night - I see all this stuff in a way different light. I now see it all for the manipulative chess game it can elevate to. As McCain rolls through MN and WI I keep shouting at the TV, "get away from my people!!!" lolz I can't help it it's like I have tourettes. :p

Documad

10-10-2008, 08:15 PM

Jenny, I knew you weren't really questioning your vote. I just wanted to vent. The cities and the rural areas of this state are just fine, but those suburbs--especially the ones to the north and south--they're seriously fucked up. I'm deeply embarrassed at those clips from a local rally.

Bob

10-11-2008, 01:20 AM

I can't see youtube from here. Did he call somebody a tar baby or gook? Who were they and what did they do about it?

:cool:

nobody answered your question, so

tar baby: (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17654013/)

CEDAR FALLS, Iowa - Republican presidential contender John McCain on Friday used the term "tar baby," considered by some a racial epithet, and later said he regretted it.

Answering questions at a town hall meeting, the Arizona senator was discussing federal involvement in custody cases when he said, "For me to stand here and ... say I'm going to declare divorces invalid because of someone who feels they weren't treated fairly in court, we are getting into a tar baby of enormous proportions and I don't know how you get out of that."

After the event, McCain told reporters: "I don't think I should have used that word and I was wrong to do so."
Story continues below ↓advertisement

The senator said he hoped it wouldn't be viewed as a racial remark. He argued that he was trying to say that it wouldn't make sense for him to have a role in something left to the courts.

Last summer, a top McCain rival, Mitt Romney of Massachusetts, apologized for referring to the troubled Big Dig construction project in Boston as a "tar baby" during a fundraiser in Ames, Iowa.

The term dates to the 19th century Uncle Remus stories, referring to a doll made of tar that traps Br'er Rabbit. It has become known as a way of describing a sticky mess and has been used as a derogatory term for a black person.

tar baby is kind of an odd word for anyone to use in this day and age, but i can't imagine a presidential candidate casually tossing out a racial slur like that if he meant it in a racist way. i believe him when he says he didn't mean it like that. i mean, in the context of the sentence, it doesn't even make sense as a slur.

it's also well-documented (and old news) that in 2000, in response to a question about his time as a POW in vietnam, mccain said something along the lines of the following: "i hated the gooks, i will hate them as long as i live."

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=mccain+%22i+hated+the+gooks%22&btnG=Search&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8

depending on which blog you read (blogs are the only ones still talking about it now), he either said "i hated the gooks" or "i hate the gooks," but regardless, he claims he was only referring to the people who tortured him, and honestly, i'm willing to believe him on that, or at least give him the benefit of the doubt. i've never been a POW, i've never been tortured, i'd probably have nothing but horrible words to say about anyone who tortured me for years on end too, i'm content to look the other way on that one.

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 01:40 AM

Well after watching a few videos of mccain and palin I have seen maybe one or two black people....yes, from the way mccain and palin are dehumanizing Obama and the comments people are making I believe people are starting to show their true colors

Are you serious man?
Ever consider the fact that the lack of black people at McCain rallies only speaks to the level of racism in blacks, not the level of racism of McCain.

Isn't the stat upwards of +90% of blacks are voting for Obama?
Now there's an example of diversification for ya.

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 02:40 AM

This is seriously commendable and my respect for John McCain has tripled.

I don't think this part of your quote was sarcastic, at least I hope :rolleyes:
because I too was happy that McCain was quick to respond to this issue.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 11:01 AM

nobody answered your question, so

depending on which blog you read (blogs are the only ones still talking about it now), he either said "i hated the gooks" or "i hate the gooks," but regardless, he claims he was only referring to the people who tortured him, and honestly, i'm willing to believe him on that, or at least give him the benefit of the doubt. i've never been a POW, i've never been tortured, i'd probably have nothing but horrible words to say about anyone who tortured me for years on end too, i'm content to look the other way on that one.

Well Bob, I appreciate your response, and thank you for spelling it out for me.

I say he's not a racist. And most likely the people that want to paint him as a racist,are themselves racist in one way or another.

Just my opinion.

:cool:

ToucanSpam

10-11-2008, 11:06 AM

Are you serious man?
Ever consider the fact that the lack of black people at McCain rallies only speaks to the level of racism in blacks, not the level of racism of McCain.

Isn't the stat upwards of +90% of blacks are voting for Obama?
Now there's an example of diversification for ya.

I'd like to see some sources that back up that claim.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 11:07 AM

Are you serious man?
Ever consider the fact that the lack of black people at McCain rallies only speaks to the level of racism in blacks, not the level of racism of McCain.

Isn't the stat upwards of +90% of blacks are voting for Obama?
Now there's an example of diversification for ya.

Now Rob, you're using basic logic. We all know that has no place here.

:cool:

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 11:18 AM

I'd like to see some sources that back up that claim.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/state/30725264.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUqyE5D7UiD3aPc:_Yy c:aUU

In Minnesota as around the nation, black voters are being mobilized in new ways and new numbers, inspired by a sense that the Obama candidacy may make history.

In critical battleground states such as Florida, the Obama team is targeting 600,000 black voters who are registered to vote but who don't show up regularly on Election Day. A big turnout by new, or newly revived, black voters there and in other pivotal states such as Virginia and North Carolina could redraw the electoral map for Obama on Election Day.

That's just one headline out of many.

I have to ask though, especially after seeing that video with people picking up homeless and such, exactly what they are voting for now, that never had before? Change? The Change of what? Skin color? Because in all reality that's about all that will change. And if so, isn't that a racist thought process??

If there's any other reason, they're being misled. And that's kinda sad when ya really think about it. Especially if the economy gets any worse.

:cool:

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 11:40 AM

I'd like to see some sources that back up that claim.

Well if you don't know, now you know...

Gallup:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108040/Candidate-Support-Race.aspx

Non-Hispanic White - Obama 42% McCain 50%
Non-Hispanic Blacks - Obama 89% McCain 2%
Hispanic - Obama 64% McCain 26%

QueenAdrock

10-11-2008, 11:57 AM

Definition of racism:
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

That in and of itself shows that black voters voting for Obama is NOT racist. If they said "Fuck McCain, he's a fucking whitey, I'm voting for Obama instead" then yeah, that's racist. Honestly, they're inspired by him and agree with his message. Not only that, they're OVERWHELMINGLY DEMOCRATIC TO BEGIN WITH.

The black vote went 88% to Kerry in 2004, and 90% to Gore in 2000. It's not a new phenomenon to see black voters support the Democrat. I mean, jeez, talk about grasping at straws to paint blacks as the ones who are racist here. :rolleyes:
www.jointcenter.org/index.php/content/download/557/3238/file/BlackVote2004.pdf

ToucanSpam

10-11-2008, 11:58 AM

Well if you don't know, now you know...

Gallup:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108040/Candidate-Support-Race.aspx

Non-Hispanic White - Obama 42% McCain 50%
Non-Hispanic Blacks - Obama 89% McCain 2%
Hispanic - Obama 64% McCain 26%

Thanks, I wouldn't even have known where to look for this.

Here's a bigger question: of the "Non-Hispanic Blacks" and "Hispanics", how many represent the middle class or working class? Obama has been very vocal about his promises/hopes to change the middle class situation in the States if he is elected.

Obama undeiniably has a larger appeal to the working class of the States. Without racially profiling or getting in depth about what ethnicity is in what class, one has to wonder if these numbers are a reflection of that.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 11:59 AM

That is fucking amazing.

WOW!

:cool:

ToucanSpam

10-11-2008, 12:03 PM

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 12:05 PM

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:05 PM

Here's a bigger question: of the "Non-Hispanic Blacks" and "Hispanics", how many represent the middle class or working class? Obama has been very vocal about his promises/hopes to change the middle class situation in the States if he is elected.

Obama undeiniably has a larger appeal to the working class of the States. Without racially profiling or getting in depth about what ethnicity is in what class, one has to wonder if these numbers are a reflection of that.

I think it's fairly clear when 82% vote one way, and out of that 82% how many previous voters are there. Now figure in that nobody (I hope) really believes that Obama can do anything he promises with the amount of money that will be available.

It's a sad state we're in, and if you think there's not a trace of racial agenda on Obamas side with it's voters, than you shouldn't think there's any racial agenda with McCain's voters.

It sucks. I knew it would eventually boil down to this, and it just sucks that America is so fucked up. Not because of any previous President, but because of lack of self respect and respect for others. But if they have no true respect for themselves, they'll never have it for others.

:cool:

Laver1969

10-11-2008, 12:09 PM

What makes you think that blacks don't hate whitey?

I used to play pool at a place called Whitey's.

QueenAdrock

10-11-2008, 12:09 PM

There's always an explanation isn't there?
You can't generalize all blacks as being "truely inspired" by Obama.

What makes you think that blacks don't hate whitey?

I'm sure there are some. But that's not the reason why they're NOT voting for McCain.

You can't dispute that the black vote overwhelmingly goes to the Democrats. When it's two white people running against each other, there's still no contest. They vote Democratic. As a matter of fact, 2% more of the black vote went to Gore than is going to Obama now. If you saw a drastic increase, like 98% of the black vote going to Obama, then you may have a leg to stand on.

So yeah, there is always an explanation.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:11 PM

I didn't even think to go there, but you did. Wicked.

Also, there's more content in a Big Mac than a NoFenders post. Just saying what many of us are probably thinking.

:cool:

Why is that Toucan?
:cool:

QueenAdrock

10-11-2008, 12:11 PM

It's a sad state we're in, and if you think there's not a trace of racial agenda on Obamas side with it's voters, than you shouldn't think there's any racial agenda with McCain's voters.

Yeah, except I haven't heard black voters say "I'm not voting for McCain because he's white and I hate white people. I'm going for Obama instead." I HAVE heard white people say "I'm not voting for Obama because he's black and I hate black people. I'm going for McCain instead."

The racism is much more lopsided on McCain's end.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:13 PM

QueenAdrock

10-11-2008, 12:16 PM

So you don't believe there's just as many racists that are black as there are white?

:cool:

Frankly, I haven't seen a lot of black sheriffs get a giant fire hose and attack dogs to mow down demonstrating white people, so no I wouldn't think there's a lot of racist black people. They're certainly in fewer numbers than the racist white people.

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 12:21 PM

These are some op/ed pieces that were published in yesterdays paper here in Philly. I think they're great and are relevant to this conversation. One is written by a black female college student, the other by a white female lawyer/journalist...and both articles are good examples of non-partisanship.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20081010_Skin_color_shouldn_t_equal_a_vote.html
Skin color shouldn't equal a vote

By NIESHA MILLER

ON A RECENT Sunday, as I waited by the Auntie Anne's stand at the Cheltenham Mall while my mom and sister got a cinnamon pretzel, a young boy asked me if I was registered to vote. He looked about 10. "Do you want to register to vote?" he asked me cheerfully with a clipboard and pen in hand.
"I don't want to," I said, smiling. He walked away toward the registering squad stationed in the middle of the mall.
I could feel the heat burning into the back of my neck as I spoke to my mom, still waiting in line for her pretzel. I turned and saw a bunch of registration groupies staring at me. It must be illegal for an African-American not to register to vote when another African-American is running for president, I guess.
The ringleader, a slinky, middle-aged African-American woman, began to approach me. As she walked toward me, her crew stared at me with dismay.
"Why don't you want to register to vote?" she asked.
I was appalled that she'd walked over to me just to ask why I didn't want to register. It's not like I told a dying Girl Scout I didn't want to buy her cookies.
"I just don't want to," I hissed.
"Why don't you want to?" she snarled. "Don't you want Obama to win and help us out?"
What made her assume I would vote for Barack Obama?
"Help us out how?" I asked. "As a matter of fact, why should I vote at all?"
She looked at me puzzled, twisting her face. "This election is very important," she said. "Obama can do us good."
"Hmmm," I hummed. That wasn't very convincing, I thought.
"Are you a college student?" she asked.
"Yes."
"Well, you definitely need to register and vote for Obama," she said.
She still hadn't explained why I should vote and why the election was so very important.
Is Obama the right candidate in her eyes because they have this one thing in common, like race? Obviously, in her eyes, it's important for me to vote because I'm African-American.
People keep telling me that this election is so important. But no one has actually told me why. What makes it so important? OK, it's a historical landmark, but I still don't understand why this vote is more important than any other.
Is 2008 about putting an African-American - or a woman - in office?
"Hey, they're just like me," won't cut it when the economy is crashing.
If this election is so important for economic reasons, then making history shouldn't matter, especially when parents don't know if they'll be able to pay for their children's college education, or if their money is safe in the banks. Race and gender shouldn't be the deciding factors.
America needs to stop pointing the finger at various political parties and decide who they think will save their homes and jobs. Let's put a blindfold on and hear our candidates out.
According to a Washington Post-ABC News poll, Obama trailed Hillary Clinton in female voters by a 2-to-1 margin.
Now that Sarah Palin's in the big picture as John McCain's running mate, soccer moms everywhere are feeling connected.
"Palin's a woman, and I'm a woman, so I'll vote for her," some think.
"Obama's black, and I'm black, so I'll vote for him," others sing.
In my intellectual heritage class at Temple last semester, an African-American classmate told the professor that she voted for Bush. The other black students shot her dirty looks. So being black and voting Republican must be illegal, too.

'I VOTED FOR BUSH because he has the same religious values as me," she said.
When I was younger, my family told me to vote Democrat. I was taught that voting Democrat was good, voting Republican was bad. I was never given a reason. And I still don't know why.
Being genetically or socially predisposed to a party or candidate doesn't help the world, especially when choosing someone to run a country. No matter the outcome, this campaign will have been a stepping-stone for women and blacks everywhere. No longer will you have to be an older white male to run the country.
In the end, I plan on voting. And when I do, religious values, race, sex and common interests will not play a role in my decision. Let's vote for who will help us, not for who is like us. *

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20081010_Christine_M__Flowers__Obama_camp_s_racial _decoders.html
Christine M. Flowers: Obama camp's racial decoders

By Christine M. Flowers
Philadelphia Daily News

I'M WHITE, and I'm not voting for Barack Obama.

To some people, that makes me a racist. Doesn't matter that I would never have voted for Hillary Clinton or John Edwards. The only thing that counts with the people who apparently count these things is that I'm a Caucasian turning my back on the junior senator from Illinois.
Ever since the campaign entered its most frenetic stage, race has become the not-so-secret weapon of the Obama camp, allowing it to both promote the candidate as a historic step forward while at the same time attack his opponents with the bigot label. And the polls say that it seems to be working.
I'm not saying that Obama will win or lose because of the color of his skin. He probably won't. But what Obama supporters have successfully done is skew the national discussion away from the issues and more toward a referendum on race.
The Obama campaign has made it harder to talk about the economy, national security, health care, etc., without dragging in the murky and volatile factor that corrupts every debate.
When John McCain supporters say, "Obama lacks experience," Obama's handlers say that's code for "Do you really want an unprepared black man running the government?" When we criticize his intent to sit down with dictators "without preconditions," they say it means "this black man doesn't really have our country's best interests at heart if he's willing to talk to our enemies." When Sarah Palin criticizes Obama for his ties to William Ayers by saying, "I'm afraid this is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to work with a former domestic terrorist," she's slammed as a racist.
If Colin Powell were on the Democratic ticket, McCain might lose half his base. It's the candidate, not his color, that turns a lot of us off. Yes, there are bigots - of every color and ethnicity. But they're not the majority by a long shot.
I doubt Obama condones these tactics. As he's said on many occasions, he wanted to transcend race in this campaign. And as a man raised in large part by his white grandparents, I believe him.
But this race thing is bigger than whatever Obama intended. It's taken on a life of its own.
There have been many times during a conversation with an Obama supporter when I've seen a noticeable change in demeanor after they've realized they can't change my vote. Incapable of believing that someone would vote for any Republican post-Bush, even one hated by many in his own party, they whip out that trusty race card.
Interestingly, we're not allowed to acknowledge that the card has two faces. Every time some intrepid pundit mentions the fact that nine out of 10 blacks are voting for Obama, the reaction is swift and furious: Blacks are voting issues, not pigmentation.
I'm willing to believe that's true, especially when you consider that blacks are overwhelmingly Democratic. They've been voting for that way ever since the GOP forgot it was the true architect of emancipation.
Democrats have long claimed (and often abused) the loyalty of African-Americans, so we would expect that a black Democratic candidate would garner the support of most black voters because they identify with his politics, not just his color.
How, then, to explain the fact that an overwhelming majority of blacks voted against Clinton in the primaries? The record of both candidates is virtually indistinguishable except for their position on the war (and Clinton came to mirror Obama on that score as well).
The answer is staring us in the face: Obama is in so many ways the Great Black Hope.
A recent essay in Newsweek made that clear. In "What If Obama Loses," Alison Samuels quoted one Daetwon Fisher, who said, "I'm going to be mad, real mad, if he doesn't win. Because for him to come this far and lose will be just shady and a slap in black people's faces."
You could say this is just one person, ignore him. But we weren't so ready to do that when a West Virginia woman said during the primary that she could never vote for a black man.
Race is an issue in this campaign. But to accuse supporters of McCain of racism while giving a free pass to the Daetwon Fishers of the world is, to borrow his phrase, a slap in everyone's face. *

Christine M. Flowers is a lawyer.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:25 PM

Frankly, I haven't seen a lot of black sheriffs get a giant fire hose and attack dogs to mow down demonstrating white people, so no I wouldn't think there's a lot of racist black people. They're certainly in fewer numbers than the racist white people.

You've seen a lot of this?? Where at? And for what? Just curious.

:cool:

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 12:28 PM

Frankly, I haven't seen a lot of black sheriffs get a giant fire hose and attack dogs to mow down demonstrating white people, so no I wouldn't think there's a lot of racist black people. They're certainly in fewer numbers than the racist white people.

Another example of why I accuse you of being a bit naive.

DroppinScience

10-11-2008, 12:29 PM

So you don't believe there's just as many racists that are black as there are white?

Also, just because you haven't heard it, means it doesn't exist?

And since you saw a clip from a video from people that are obviously radicals, you tend to believe that all McCains's supporters and even Mccain himself to be racist?

:cool:

No, there aren't as many racist blacks as there are whites. Blacks are a minority. It's a simple numbers question.

I have heard it. If you could read, you would have read I'm sure there are black racists. I've come across it before. Doesn't mean I've come across it as much as I have white racism.

And way to put words in my mouth. For someone who gets SOOOO uppity of being misinterpreted, you sure do a good job of it yourself. :rolleyes:

*QueenAdrock, Brett didn't sign out.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:29 PM

I think all in all it's a very sad subject.

We need to move beyond this, both white and black.

And I'm sorry QueenA but to think racism isn't alive and well in every race is uninformed and probably by self choice. With leaders of certain black populations like Jackson,Sharpton, Wright, etc, and hearing what they've said, done, and want, it's surprising that anyone could ignore it. But if it fits your political agenda, than have at it.

It needs to stop, and this election I'm afraid will only make things worse as far as what either candidate is and most of all isn't saying.

Defending one or another is just adding to the problem. Not much help at all.

:cool:

Knuckles

10-11-2008, 12:32 PM

And I'm sorry QueenA but to think racism isn't alive and well in every race is uninformed and probably by self choice.

Where did she say that?

QueenAdrock

10-11-2008, 12:32 PM

beyond this, both white and black.

And I'm sorry QueenA but to think racism isn't alive and well in every race is uninformed and probably by self choice. With leaders of certain black populations like Jackson,Sharpton, Wright, etc, and hearing what they've said, done, and want, it's surprising that anyone could ignore it. But if it fits your political agenda, than have at it.

Like I said, learn to read. :rolleyes: I said that black racism does exist (I have encountered it), though I don't believe it happens as much as white racism, which I have encountered much, MUCH more.

QueenAdrock

10-11-2008, 12:35 PM

Another example of why I accuse you of being a bit naive.

That was Brett, he fucked up the logins. I'm surprised you couldn't tell.

King PSYZ

10-11-2008, 12:36 PM

as an aside, ending every post with a :cool: makes you come off like a smug piece of shit.

maybe you are, maybe not. but that's the vibe you're giving off.

ToucanSpam

10-11-2008, 12:38 PM

as an aside, ending every post with a :cool: makes you come off like a smug piece of shit.

maybe you are, maybe not. but that's the vibe you're giving off.

THANK YOU. Holy shit thank you.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:39 PM

No, there aren't as many racist blacks as there are whites. Blacks are a minority. It's a simple numbers question.

I have heard it. If you could read, you would have read I'm sure there are black racists. I've come across it before. Doesn't mean I've come across it as much as I have white racism.

And way to put words in my mouth. For someone who gets SOOOO uppity of being misinterpreted, you sure do a good job of it yourself. :rolleyes:

*QueenAdrock, Brett didn't sign out.

First off by your stats , you're assuming that every white and black person is racist. So numbers by population mean very little. Seeing as though that's the furthest thing from the truth.

Second, exactly how many black people do you even see every day where you live much less have conversations with about their family and such to get real inside views compared the white people you know. And of those black people who you just randomly talk to, how many do think give their honest oopinion and why?

Third, I never put words in your mouth, I asked a question. Big difference.

:cool:

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:41 PM

as an aside, ending every post with a :cool: makes you come off like a smug piece of shit.

maybe you are, maybe not. but that's the vibe you're giving off.

Makes no difference to me. Tell Kaizer to start a thread about it.

:cool:

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:41 PM

That was Brett, he fucked up the logins. I'm surprised you couldn't tell.

This is bizzare.

:cool:

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 12:42 PM

I wish I was from a place that I was totally and completely insulated from the hate that blacks have towards whites in America.

It must be very comforting.

I went on a cruise to the Carribean Islands for my honeymoon around a little over 10 years ago and I was shocked and completely inspired by the lack of racial tensions that existed in those islands. Even though they were brought over on the very slave ships that many of the blacks from America were brought over on and their ancestors struggled through slavery just as much, the difference in race relations and underlying hatred between races was shockingly non-existant. I have no explanition for the difference in attitude, but it definitely exists.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:43 PM

Where did she say that?

Alive and well meaning just as bad on one side as the other.

:cool:

ToucanSpam

10-11-2008, 12:44 PM

Jesus fucking Christ shut up.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:44 PM

Knuckles

10-11-2008, 12:44 PM

First off by your stats , you're assuming that every white and black person is racist. So numbers by population mean very little. Seeing as though that's the furthest thing from the truth.

What the heck are you trying to say?

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:45 PM

Jesus fucking Christ shut up.

Awwww. nap time??

:cool:

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 12:45 PM

What the heck are you trying to say?

That the numbers are most likely the same.

:cool:

Knuckles

10-11-2008, 12:48 PM

That the numbers are most likely the same.

:cool:
So therefore, blacks are more racist than whites?

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 12:48 PM

Second, exactly how many black people do you even see every day where you live much less have conversations with about their family and such to get real inside views compared the white people you know. And of those black people who you just randomly talk to, how many do think give their honest oopinion and why?

This is a very interesting point you've raised.
I'm interested in answers from both Lambert and Diana, (if they can manage to keep the log-ins straight)

How many black people have you had in your home, ever?

ToucanSpam

10-11-2008, 12:48 PM

Of the last ten posts in this thread, SEVEN were NoFenders, and all seven were content free, except this :cool: fucking smile which is now the embodiment of ignorant morons everywhere.

QueenAdrock

10-11-2008, 12:48 PM

First off by your stats , you're assuming that every white and black person is racist.

Uh, what the fuck? No, it's just saying if there's an equal percentage of racist people who are black as there are for whites, there are more white racists.

Second, exactly how many black people do you even see every day where you live much less have conversations with about their family and such to get real inside views compared the white people you know. And of those black people who you just randomly talk to, how many do think give their honest oopinion and why?
I don't see black people here. But I've been living here for a year. Before that, I've lived outside and worked inside of DC, and grew up in a county where whites are now the minority. My residency is North Carolina, and there's a comparable amount of black people there, too. I've come across racist blacks, yes. However, they were few and far between, almost all of them I crossed paths with were perfectly nice and friendly to me. If they were racist, they certainly hid it well.

Compare that to the white people I've met down south who have absolutely no problem telling me that Obama won't win because he's black, nor should he. Also, my friends from Detroit who see "Nigger" spraypainted across Obama signs. It's not uncommon to see that, actually. It does seem to me that spraypainting "whitey" on a McCain sign WOULD be uncommon. However, if you come across it, let me know.

Third, I never put words in your mouth, I asked a question. Big difference.

:cool:

You asked a leading question. Big difference.

QueenAdrock

10-11-2008, 12:51 PM

This is a very interesting point you've raised.
I'm interested in answers from both Lambert and Diana, (if they can manage to keep the log-ins straight)

How many black people have you had in your home, ever?

I don't know about Brett, but like I said, I grew up with blacks. My first kiss was from a black man. My first boyfriend was black. One of my closest friends up here is black too (surprisingly, since there is such a low population). Whites are a minority where I come from.

Do I have credibility yet? :rolleyes:

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 12:55 PM

I understand if you think I'm being accusatory, but that wasn't my intention at all.

QueenAdrock

10-11-2008, 01:24 PM

Okay, well, I do appreciate the clarification.

Either way, I do think it's silly to be arguing that one group is more racist than the other. Obviously, people who grew up in the city are going to have a different view of people who grew up in more rural areas to the south. I do think there's racism on both sides, alive and well, but I do not think that black people are racist in their votes for Obama.

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 01:24 PM

Of the last ten posts in this thread, SEVEN were NoFenders, and all seven were content free, except this :cool: fucking smile which is now the embodiment of ignorant morons everywhere.

You really need a hobby

:cool:

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 01:27 PM

NoFenders

10-11-2008, 01:29 PM

So therefore, blacks are more racist than whites?
No, the numbers are equal.

:cool:

roosta

10-11-2008, 03:01 PM

voting for mccain/palin doesn't make you an racist, it just shows you are a complete fucking idiot.

Randetica

10-11-2008, 03:11 PM

lol :eek:(y):eek:

DroppinScience

10-11-2008, 03:22 PM

This is a very interesting point you've raised.
I'm interested in answers from both Lambert and Diana, (if they can manage to keep the log-ins straight)

How many black people have you had in your home, ever?

Okay, the log-in confusion is solved. Nothing more to see here.

Unfair question for me since where I reside in Canada there are so few black people. Also unfair because G-mile lives a long way from me, but I'm sure he knows I'd have him over to my house anytime. :cool:

I'd like to invite my high school friend Cadence Weapon (http://media.canada.com/8c8b3290-2b08-4dc6-8e3e-2cc645fdfe05/030408_cadence-weapon.jpg), but he's too busy since he tours and records a lot of music.

To make up for the lack of black people in my house, I've compensated by inviting other minorities like Chinese, Filipinos, Peruvians, British Guyanaians (sp?) and others to my house. After writing this post, however, I've resolved to run over to 107th Avenue, find the nearest immigrant from Rwanda or Ethiopia and invite him over for tea at my house.

I resolve to go on a nation-wide search for a black friend, like Stephen Colbert ("http://ourfounder.typepad.com/leblog/WindowsLiveWriter/BourdainsDisdain_8A86/image%7B0%7D%5B5%5D_1.png).

Edit: I'll add this. I know you deliberately asked me this question because you wanted to point out how isolated I am from significant black populations. Having said that, I do travel, y'know. And when in the States, I don't even avoid the black parts of town, like a lot of other tourists would (namely, my own parents). I've been in the apartment of a wonderful black family in Harlem to watch a jazz concert, thrilled to have so many people from Canada wanting to take part in it. I've strolled on the south side of Chicago, where me and my brother were literally the only white people to go specially to an African-American museum to learn and speak with others regarding the history and development of black culture. So yeah, NoFenders or you may think I'm some isolated white middle-class kid who is naive, but I do make sincere efforts to step out of my white bubble to learn the other side.

jennyb

10-11-2008, 03:37 PM

I'm pretty much a minority on my block and I love it! <3 Long live diversity! *steps out to go to mexican market for the best limes and tortillas where she's the only gigantic white chick strollin through there and gets stared at lol*

I could care less if Barack was Purple and McCain was Green, Barack speaks hope to me and McCain - fear. I'm voting on my hopes. Color schmolor I cannot believe it's such an issue anymore, but unfortunately it is...

DroppinScience

10-11-2008, 04:32 PM

I didn't know whether to make this a new thread or to contribute it here, but the racist McCain/Palin supporter maniacs are at it again. Here's a man holding a monkey with an Obama sticker on it. Once he saw the camera was pointed his direction, he took off the sticker and handed the monkey to a little kid. Nice save, racist dipshit! :rolleyes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/11/politics/fromtheroad/entry4515246.shtml

The video is in the link.

ToucanSpam

10-11-2008, 04:42 PM

Just for the record, RobMoney, there is a very large population of African-Canadians here in the Maritime Provinces. From the beginning of the 18th century and ending around the 1860s there was an incredibly large group of African-Americans who left, escaped, immigrated or arrived in Canada by various means; they were once lumped into the horrendously incorrect category of 'Black Loyalists' but are not given the more adequate title 'Black Refugees'. I know these things because a good part of the research I am interested in and have completed in recent years discusses Black Refugees as well as race relations in North America in general.

Anyways, within my extended family I have an African-Canadian uncle through marriage. In addition there are large pockets of A-Cs in lots of places in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. Canada does in fact have a large African-Canadian population, just not in the west. My point is the Canadian experience with ethnic minorities is not a homogeneous one. We're lucky enough to have tonnes of different minorities all across the country.

funk63

10-11-2008, 04:42 PM

QueenAdrock

10-11-2008, 04:43 PM

ToucanSpam

10-11-2008, 04:50 PM

That guy looks SO uncomfortable.

Rightly so.

I got more of a Chris Hansen feeling from him more than anything. I dunno, I was still laughing.

jennyb

10-11-2008, 04:52 PM

wait, gigantic?

lol! I'm pretty tall especially when walking around in that place. They all look up at me like, "are you lost?" and I just smile and say hi.

and yeah, that video, sigh... I think that having a black nominee brings all of 'them' out of the woodwork. If anything, having a black, actually bi-racial, to be correct, commander in chief would be the best stfu this racist minority could ever get.

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 06:01 PM

Okay, the log-in confusion is solved. Nothing more to see here.

Unfair question for me since where I reside in Canada there are so few black people. Also unfair because G-mile lives a long way from me, but I'm sure he knows I'd have him over to my house anytime. :cool:

I'd like to invite my high school friend Cadence Weapon (http://media.canada.com/8c8b3290-2b08-4dc6-8e3e-2cc645fdfe05/030408_cadence-weapon.jpg), but he's too busy since he tours and records a lot of music.

To make up for the lack of black people in my house, I've compensated by inviting other minorities like Chinese, Filipinos, Peruvians, British Guyanaians (sp?) and others to my house. After writing this post, however, I've resolved to run over to 107th Avenue, find the nearest immigrant from Rwanda or Ethiopia and invite him over for tea at my house.

I resolve to go on a nation-wide search for a black friend, like <A href="http://"http://ourfounder.typepad.com/leblog/WindowsLiveWriter/BourdainsDisdain_8A86/image%7B0%7D%5B5%5D_1.png" target=_blank>Stephen Colbert.

Edit: I'll add this. I know you deliberately asked me this question because you wanted to point out how isolated I am from significant black populations. Having said that, I do travel, y'know. And when in the States, I don't even avoid the black parts of town, like a lot of other tourists would (namely, my own parents). I've been in the apartment of a wonderful black family in Harlem to watch a jazz concert, thrilled to have so many people from Canada wanting to take part in it. I've strolled on the south side of Chicago, where me and my brother were literally the only white people to go specially to an African-American museum to learn and speak with others regarding the history and development of black culture. So yeah, NoFenders or you may think I'm some isolated white middle-class kid who is naive, but I do make sincere efforts to step out of my white bubble to learn the other side.

Like I said, I really wasn't trying to be accusatory. I was legitimitely interested because it gives me a better image of where you're coming from and what your point of view is on this issue.
Telling me about every exchange you've ever had with a black person is not necessary. No matter how many blogs you read or blacks you semi-know through the internet, I think it's fair to say that your experience with the black culture is rather limited and you're probably not the right person to speak about these issues.

You say it's an unfair question, I say it's unfair of you to offer an opinion on the issue then.

Dorothy Wood

10-11-2008, 06:18 PM

holy shit there's some bullshit in this thread.

I hate whitey, but I'm voting for obama 'cause he's sexy. ;););)

rirv

10-11-2008, 06:37 PM

If someone is not qualified to talk about issues of race because they haven't met a quota of black people at dinner, then how is anyone here qualified to talk about who should be president?

pshabi

10-11-2008, 06:44 PM

Isn't the stat upwards of +90% of blacks are voting for Obama?

I guess niggas ain't as dumb as I thought they were. Huh.

Tongue in cheek, in case you couldn't tell.

funk63

10-11-2008, 06:44 PM

Bob

10-11-2008, 06:45 PM

john kerry once showed up at a friend of mine's party. deval patrick came, too. it's a twofer!

funk63

10-11-2008, 06:53 PM

Another thing, 90 percent of blacks voting for the first black guy running for president? who the hells the 10 percent NOT voting for him? wtf?

DroppinScience

10-11-2008, 07:23 PM

If someone is not qualified to talk about issues of race because they haven't met a quota of black people at dinner, then how is anyone here qualified to talk about who should be president?

I'll be having Nelson Mandela, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Maya Angelou, Colin Powell, John Lewis, Magic Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal, and Alice Walker over for dinner next week. Then I'll finally be qualified to discuss this topic! I guess reading Frederick Douglass, Malcolm X, watching thousands of hours of civil rights documentaries on PBS just doesn't cut it. Time for me to reach out and touch a black person myself!

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 08:33 PM

I'll be having Nelson Mandela, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Maya Angelou, Colin Powell, John Lewis, Magic Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal, and Alice Walker over for dinner next week. Then I'll finally be qualified to discuss this topic! I guess reading Frederick Douglass, Malcolm X, watching thousands of hours of civil rights documentaries on PBS just doesn't cut it. Time for me to reach out and touch a black person myself!

Actually, I agree.
No matter how many documentaries you watch, how many books you read, or how many blogs you subscribe to, you're still only getting someone else's point of view of what black americans are all about.
You're only getting a sanitized version of what someone wants to present to tell their story.

You don't know.

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 08:36 PM

Another thing, 90 percent of blacks voting for the first black guy running for president? who the hells the 10 percent NOT voting for him? wtf?

People who are truly voting without bias and who understand that skin color does not equal a vote.

I applaud the 10%. There's also probably about 10% of black Obama supporters who are voting for him based solely on his policies without any consideration of race. Kudos to those people. They're the example for us all.

Bob

10-11-2008, 08:40 PM

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 08:43 PM

yeah, they're some of the good ones

Yeah, how dare I applaud people who are blind to race, huh.

Documad

10-11-2008, 09:03 PM

Blacks have traditionally voted for white democrats. I mean, after the Reconstruction era, of course.

Young adults like Obama too. I guess they're also biased. And women too.

Bob

10-11-2008, 09:04 PM

i'm voting for obama, am i blind to race?

RobMoney$

10-11-2008, 09:08 PM

If you saw ABCNEWS website yesterday on the "Top stories of the day" Obama Girl was listed with a video of her mocking Sarah Palin.
The day before it had a video of PDiddy complaining of McCain saying "That one".
ABC has also posted Tina Frey mocking Palin.

Is there any National News left? ...but the media isn't biased towards Obama at all :rolleyes:
So far I'm not impressed with the "change" and the new amerika.

Documad

10-11-2008, 09:08 PM

By the way, I haven't heard John Lewis's remarks for myself yet, but from what I read, he went a bit too far in comparing McCain to George Wallace. But while the candidates aren't the same, the crowds watching them and yelling things have a similar vibe. I have massive respect for Lewis. I know that Obama will have to distance himself from Lewis's remarks, and he should, but Lewis should not be attacked. In fact, McCain was a big fan of Lewis's before Lewis called him out today.

Somewhere, deep inside McCain, he has to be sorry that he is throwing away his reputation as a man and a politician for all time in this desperate attempt to use fear and dirty tactics to get a fucking job he doesn't need and likely won't get. McCain should have never had to appear on a stage with someone as dopey as Palin. I thank god John Glenn had class and just retired as an american hero.

yeahwho

10-11-2008, 11:01 PM

Wow! To have actual McCain supporters here on the board to teach me about the real Black America. I wasn't too sure what Black people think or how they behave.

Some Black people have actually embraced this rap style music the Beastie Boys play.

You've got to be fucking out of your mind coming here with this shit. Did somebody actually pose the question of how much contact we have with Black Americans? Is that supposed to be a criteria for how to vote for the POTUS? What sort of direction does that question lead to other than baiting?

Honestly, answer what other purpose that question serves besides race baiting?

yeahwho

10-11-2008, 11:41 PM

People who are truly voting without bias and who understand that skin color does not equal a vote.

I applaud the 10%. There's also probably about 10% of black Obama supporters who are voting for him based solely on his policies without any consideration of race. Kudos to those people. They're the example for us all.

Underestimating millions of your fellow citizens seems to be a hobby of yours. That is a racist generalization that directly says you believe 90% of the Black registered voters in the USA are not smart enough to understand the stakes of a presidential election other than the party they vote for.

10% are smart, 90% haven't actually thought through the consequences of how they came to their conclusion to vote for Obama.

That's pretty harsh.

funk63

10-11-2008, 11:48 PM

Yall overthinkin this shit nigga

kaiser soze

10-11-2008, 11:56 PM

I sense racism in this thread

yeahwho

10-11-2008, 11:57 PM

Yall overthinkin this shit nigga

Your right, actually it's only 70% of registered Black American Voters don't completely understand Obama because he's Black too.

Since 10% are voting other than democrat and the other 10% of Black Americans voting democrat fully understand policies without race.

funk63

10-12-2008, 12:04 AM

10% are smart, 90% haven't actually thought through the consequences of how they came to their conclusion to vote for Obama.

That's pretty harsh.

He said 10 percent of 90 percent blacks voting for obama are voting for him solely on his policies not regarding race. The other 80 percent are voting for him considering race? I guess is what Robs saying. Not sure where he gets those figures but he wasnt sayin what your sayin.

Your right, actually it's only 70% of registered Black American Voters don't completely understand Obama because he's Black too.

Since 10% are voting other than democrat and the other 10% of Black Americans voting democrat fully understand policies without race.

I dont know what this means.

DroppinScience

10-12-2008, 12:07 AM

Actually, I agree.
No matter how many documentaries you watch, how many books you read, or how many blogs you subscribe to, you're still only getting someone else's point of view of what black americans are all about.
You're only getting a sanitized version of what someone wants to present to tell their story.

You don't know.

Actually, your conclusion is crap for the simple reason that if I am reading many books or watching many documentaries, I am getting MANY points of view. I am piecing it all together so I can get a truly well-rounded perspective on it all. Not one source is going to cut it. Not even your own personal experiences (you over value personal experience, but even that is just one point of view and limited by geography and time). Believe me, it's not sanitized either. On top of all that, I am developing a HISTORICAL context. None of us were alive during the Civil War, so reading slave narratives is extremely important. The majority of us posting were not alive during the civil rights era or were very, very young when it was going on. What am I going to do? Yes, that's right. I'm going to READ UP on the subject. I don't know what it is about you that thinks reading is irrelevant to having an opinion or saying something. Yes, your own personal experiences can hold their own relevance, but honestly, you're just one man from Pennsylvania living in the year 2008. That is a vastly limited point of view. I don't know about you, but I'd need to seek out more points of view than just that.

If you're going to fault me for that, that is your own problem and I'm sorry you can't look beyond that.

funk63

10-12-2008, 12:20 AM

yeahwho

10-12-2008, 12:28 AM

People who are truly voting without bias and who understand that skin color does not equal a vote.

I applaud the 10%. There's also probably about 10% of black Obama supporters who are voting for him based solely on his policies without any consideration of race. Kudos to those people. They're the example for us all.

He said 10 percent of 90 percent blacks voting for obama are voting for him solely on his policies not regarding race. The other 80 percent are voting for him considering race? I guess is what Robs saying. Not sure where he gets those figures but he wasnt sayin what your sayin.

I dont know what this means.

80%.

My fuck up. What do i know? I'm a maverick voting for obama.

DroppinScience

10-12-2008, 02:01 AM

Dude your coming off like a major tool. Your doing research to get a "well-rounded perspective" on black people? lol! Why dont you go to the hood and get a first hand perspective. See how that goes for you. Yano what I personally invite you to go hang out with me and some friends on 14th st. in Anacostia. Theres plenty of "african americans" there that you can "interact" with first hand!

Wait a sec, aren't you from the uber-white suburbs of Virginia? Where all the DC politicians send their children to school? So why pretend to have "hood" credibility?

Anyways, I had no idea taking an interest in history (even if it's of black people LOL!) was coming off like a "major tool." My mistake.

funk63

10-12-2008, 02:51 AM

Wait a sec, aren't you from the uber-white suburbs of Virginia? Where all the DC politicians send their children to school? So why pretend to have "hood" credibility?

Anyways, I had no idea taking an interest in history (even if it's of black people LOL!) was coming off like a "major tool." My mistake.

Nah, I used to live in a military base that was near Fairfax, which is a pretty nice suburb when I was like 12, it was pretty cool. I definitely wouldnt call Fort B. uber white though. People from there dont claim to have "hood" credibility, so Idk why youd say that. theres blacks whites mexicans asians there and every one gets along really good.
Ive been living in DC now, near Anacostia for like the past five years(except for when I was court ordered to move) I went to a pretty shitty public school, but it was cool I met alot of cool people. I have alot of black friends who I shoot the shit with. And? Im not trying to act hood. But I do live a shit hole apartment, in a fucked up part of town. You think its something Im proud of? no. you think its something anyones proud of? no.

And dont try and play word games. I didnt say taking an interest in black history made you sound like a tool. Its just your attitude dude. It annoys me hearin people talk about black people like you are. chill out with all this shit.

funk63

10-12-2008, 03:13 AM

Yeah I need to chill out too. I take out my frustrations on the internet I guess. Maybe I should look for alternate venues.. Beating up a homeless guy sounds good.

Dorothy Wood

10-12-2008, 04:42 AM

detroit whut

DroppinScience

10-12-2008, 11:17 AM

Nah, I used to live in a military base that was near Fairfax, which is a pretty nice suburb when I was like 12, it was pretty cool. I definitely wouldnt call Fort B. uber white though. People from there dont claim to have "hood" credibility, so Idk why youd say that. theres blacks whites mexicans asians there and every one gets along really good.
Ive been living in DC now, near Anacostia for like the past five years(except for when I was court ordered to move) I went to a pretty shitty public school, but it was cool I met alot of cool people. I have alot of black friends who I shoot the shit with. And? Im not trying to act hood. But I do live a shit hole apartment, in a fucked up part of town. You think its something Im proud of? no. you think its something anyones proud of? no.

And dont try and play word games. I didnt say taking an interest in black history made you sound like a tool. Its just your attitude dude. It annoys me hearin people talk about black people like you are. chill out with all this shit.

Okay, my bad. I thought you were still in Fairfax and I remember someone saying it was the complete opposite of "ghetto" (despite claims to the contrary).

Documad

10-12-2008, 12:35 PM

I sense racism in this thread

I don't know about racism, but stereotyping for sure.

There seems to be an assumption that if you know some black people, then you can know what all black people think and feel. That's silly.

The black friends and others who I currently associate with on a daily basis tend to have advanced degrees. That wasn't always true. If they are married with kids, they tend to choose to live in a predominantly black urban community because we don't have a middle class black suburb like some other cities with a large black population. They don't want their kids to grow up in a white suburb. There are more factors that influence their opinions and attitudes than I could know. But I suspect that the people with advanced degrees in education or social work or library science or law may have a perspective that it different from someone who didn't graduate from high school and was incarcerated from 16 on.

I'm just trying to say that it might be helpful to remember that a black american might be let's say a black male judge in his early 40s instead of a street thug. Whatever their income or education level, my friends' kids (especially male kids) tend to be subjected to daily racism--just like Obama. Income and education don't isolate you from that. :rolleyes:

You should also remember that many black americans in 2008 were born in Africa. They often have a very different outlook.

I would also like to point out that in my life, I've noticed that it makes a difference whether someone is male or female. And how old they are. And whether you have children. And where you grew up also plays a part. And what religion you are. The black man I know who grew up in New Orleans has a different outlook (it seems more old fashioned re male/female relationships) from my friend's husband who is a black Muslim and who was raised on the east coast. I don't know why that is--just something I've observed because they're both raising daughters and they have very different ideas of what's proper for a daughter, even though they're both married to very strong women. :p

I'd also like to point out that it appears that 100% of my gay friends are voting for Obama even though he isn't gay. But I obviously don't know any of the self-loathing gay people that are so common in the republican party. I'd guess that 100% of my Jewish friends are voting for Obama even though McCain says he's better for Israel. We could stereotype and say that all Jews are smart and thus they're smart enough to see through his fear mongering, but I don't like to stereotype. ;)

RobMoney$

10-12-2008, 01:44 PM

You know, I read the Diary of Anne Frank and I saw Munich and Schindler's List, so I obviously have a pretty good grasp on what jews' opinions are as it relates to this election and the candidates stances on Israel as much as anyone.
In fact, I'm more informed than actual jews who haven't seen or read these things.

[/sarcasm]

jennyb

10-12-2008, 01:56 PM

We need to keep fucking each other until we're all the same color for this debate to end. :rolleyes:

Let's not forget that Barack did spend 9 months inside the womb of a white woman.

QueenAdrock

10-12-2008, 01:59 PM

I think it's fair to say that your experience with the black culture is rather limited and you're probably not the right person to speak about these issues.

You say it's an unfair question, I say it's unfair of you to offer an opinion on the issue then.

Well, I've had experience with the southern, rural, white culture (which it appears you and NoFenders do not), so I'd say my overall view on the subject coming from a standpoint that I see BOTH sides of the extreme racism (both having lived and worked in DC, and having residence down in North Carolina and spending about 1.5 months there a year).

However, I still respect your point of view because I see where you're coming from and why you believe the things you do. I still think it's fair for you to offer an opinion, just like it's fair for Brett to offer an opinion. He's spent a lot of time in various places in America (Chicago, NYC, DC, NC, VA, CO, PA, NJ, etc.), and has talked to enough people and seen enough to make an informed decision. There may not be a lot of blacks in the Alberta area, but it's not like he's trapped in a little white bubble and doesn't have experience with people outside his culture.

Documad

10-12-2008, 06:08 PM

In other news, the elderly parents of my friends were so appalled at the comments made at that rally and McCain's role in stoking the problem that they're calling their kids on a regular basis to complain.

And my friends' catholic and jewish parents are afraid of Palin's intolerance. I guess they're old enough to remember how bad that can get. I'm hoping this is going to help local democratic candidates too.

Everywhere I go this weekend, people are talking politics.

RobMoney$

10-12-2008, 07:08 PM

Well, I've had experience with the southern, rural, white culture (which it appears you and NoFenders do not), so I'd say my overall view on the subject coming from a standpoint that I see BOTH sides of the extreme racism (both having lived and worked in DC, and having residence down in North Carolina and spending about 1.5 months there a year).

However, I still respect your point of view because I see where you're coming from and why you believe the things you do. I still think it's fair for you to offer an opinion, just like it's fair for Brett to offer an opinion. He's spent a lot of time in various places in America (Chicago, NYC, DC, NC, VA, CO, PA, NJ, etc.), and has talked to enough people and seen enough to make an informed decision. There may not be a lot of blacks in the Alberta area, but it's not like he's trapped in a little white bubble and doesn't have experience with people outside his culture.

I'll admit I don't have a lot of experience with racism in the south, but I'm not trying to deny or minimize the fact that it exists in any way. I have heard plenty of stories of how out in the open racism against blacks is down there. But I never denied the fact that that racism exists, you and Lambert have tried to deny that racism exists in blacks.

But hey, I actually have spent plenty of time myself in the Baltimore & DC areas. I have a sister who went to school (J.Hopkins) and now lives there with her husband whom she met while doing a semister abroad in Niger, Africa. Not that that means I have anymore experience with racism in the south.

kaiser soze

10-12-2008, 09:49 PM

Veiled, fuck that

Some bring it right out in the open

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Esocs9qPRY&eurl

That's AmeriKKKA for ya (y)

jennyb

10-12-2008, 10:33 PM

My god... I got this insane email from a close relative tonight - whom I love and respect... trying to peg Barack as a Muslim extremist whom we should all be afraid of being president. I found a link (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp) that spells it out. This relative lives near Milwaukee WI, is pretty far to the right and I cannot get over the numerous people that have been copied on it (mom, sister etc..). I didn't think it is a good idea to try and get into this with her as at the end of the day we're family and this stuff is gettin pretty divisive. I talked to my mom tonight and she said my brothers and their wives all got together this weekend and just spewed a bunch of hate speak on Obama for hours. That my mom doesn't get Fox News and only CNN and they were fit to be tied without their beloved Fox News, ugh. All this shit has my stomach in knots. :( Are we entering some sort of civil war type environment that will divide families? Like what the hell? I knew that they were McCain supporters, but all this has me worried that they are beyond normal debate and discourse and just all out nuts. I cannot wait for this election to be over so we can all chill out and move on.

kaiser soze

10-12-2008, 10:51 PM

wow, some quotes from mccain/palin supporters

"Obama Bin Laden?" "Hussein Mohammad Obama?" "We Need a Muslim President"

Hate Talk Express keeps truckin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHrExRHZnm0&eurl

DroppinScience

10-12-2008, 11:13 PM

I really hope those McCain/Palin racist nutjobs at the rallies ruin it for their candidates. The more they yell out "terrorist" and "Muslim," the more I hope sane people observing this will feel so turned off they'll steer clear of voting McCain come November. I understand in '92, the evangelicals got a tad too nutty for mainstream America, which led to Bush I's downfall and they voted in Clinton.

I am reminded of Goldwater running in 1964. His campaign slogan was "in your heart, you know he's right." Those who vehemently opposed him (such as civil rights activists and anti-nuclear proliferation groups) turned that phrase on its head and went: "in your heart, you know he's SICK!" That couldn't be more fitting for these racists.

RobMoney$

10-13-2008, 05:09 AM

That's like saying that I hope Rev. Wright turns moderates away from Obama.

In fact, Obama actually choose to have an association to Wright. McCain didn't choose to be associated with those ignorant people at his rally and did stand up to correct one of them recently and basically said "I ain't havin it" and distanced himself from such thinking.
Obama only distanced himself from Wright when he was left no other choice and Wright practically forced him into doing so.

Documad

10-13-2008, 07:22 AM

McCain has to take responsibility for his campaign. They work for him. Rick Davis works for him.

Documad

10-13-2008, 07:40 AM

Fire The Campaign
by William Kristol

It’s time for John McCain to fire his campaign.

He has nothing to lose. His campaign is totally overmatched by Obama’s. The Obama team is well organized, flush with resources, and the candidate and the campaign are in sync. The McCain campaign, once merely problematic, is now close to being out-and-out dysfunctional. Its combination of strategic incoherence and operational incompetence has become toxic. If the race continues over the next three weeks to be a conventional one, McCain is doomed.

He may be anyway. Bush is unpopular. The media is hostile. The financial meltdown has made things tougher. Maybe the situation is hopeless — and if it is, then nothing McCain or his campaign does matters.

But I’m not convinced by such claims of inevitability. McCain isn’t Bush. The media isn’t all-powerful. And the economic crisis still presents an opportunity to show leadership.

The 2008 campaign is now about something very big — both our future prosperity and our national security. Yet the McCain campaign has become smaller.

What McCain needs to do is junk the whole thing and start over. Shut down the rapid responses, end the frantic e-mails, bench the spinning surrogates, stop putting up new TV and Internet ads every minute. In fact, pull all the ads — they’re doing no good anyway. Use that money for televised town halls and half-hour addresses in prime time.

And let McCain go back to what he’s been good at in the past — running as a cheerful, open and accessible candidate. Palin should follow suit. The two of them are attractive and competent politicians. They’re happy warriors and good campaigners. Set them free.

Provide total media accessibility on their campaign planes and buses. Kick most of the aides off and send them out to swing states to work for the state coordinators on getting voters to the polls. Keep just a minimal staff to help organize the press conferences McCain and Palin should have at every stop and the TV interviews they should do at every location. Do town halls, do the Sunday TV shows, do talk radio — and invite Obama and Biden to join them in some of these venues, on the ground that more joint appearances might restore civility and substance to the contest.

The hope for McCain and Palin is that they still have pretty good favorable ratings from the voters. The American people have by no means turned decisively against them.

The bad news, of course, is that right now Obama’s approval/disapproval rating is better than McCain’s. Indeed, Obama’s is a bit higher than it was a month ago. That suggests the failure of the McCain campaign’s attacks on Obama.

So drop them.

Not because they’re illegitimate. I think many of them are reasonable. Obama’s relationship to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright is, I believe, a legitimate issue. But McCain ruled it out of bounds, and he’s sticking to that. And for whatever reason — the public mood, campaign ineptness, McCain’s alternation between hesitancy and harshness, which reflects the fact that he’s uncomfortable in the attack role — the other attacks on Obama just aren’t working. There’s no reason to think they’re suddenly going to.

There are still enough doubts about Obama to allow McCain to win. But McCain needs to make his case, and do so as a serious but cheerful candidate for times that need a serious but upbeat leader.

McCain should stop unveiling gimmicky proposals every couple of days that pretend to deal with the financial crisis. He should tell the truth — we’re in uncharted waters, no one is certain what to do, and no one knows what the situation will be on Jan. 20, 2009. But what we do know is that we could use someone as president who’s shown in his career the kind of sound judgment and strong leadership we’ll need to make it through the crisis.

McCain can make the substantive case for his broadly centrist conservatism. He can explain that our enemies won’t take a vacation because the markets are down, and that it’s not unimportant that he’s ready to be commander in chief. He can remind voters that even in a recession, the president appoints federal judges — and that his judges won’t legislate from the bench.

And he can point out that there’s going to be a Democratic Congress. He can suggest that surely we’d prefer a president who would check that Congress where necessary and work with it where possible, instead of having an inexperienced Democratic president joined at the hip with an all-too-experienced Democratic Congress, leading us, unfettered and unchecked, back to 1970s-style liberalism.

At Wednesday night’s debate at Hofstra, McCain might want to volunteer a mild mea culpa about the extent to which the presidential race has degenerated into a shouting match. And then he can pledge to the voters that the last three weeks will feature a contest worthy of this moment in our history.

He’d enjoy it. And he might even win it.

Link to Bill Krisol's NY Times Column (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/opinion/13kristol.html?_r=1&ref=&oref=slogin)

If his name rings a bell, it's because he is one of he neocons who strongly supported
the Iraq War and predicted it would be a cake walk. He also supported Palin's selection as VP.

Some people think he wrote the column knowing that McCain is thinking about firing
Rick Davis, Nicole Wallace, et al.

yeahwho

10-13-2008, 08:27 AM

The McCain/Palin campaign is embarrassing. No matter what Kristol says, Palin is just a boost of energy for bored right wingers. She looks and talks like a ventriloquists doll.

Rather than show restraint and wisdom McCain is presenting knee-jerk ideas doubled with outrage that he is losing.

But ultimately I think this campaign is McCain's and he's the one who's calling the shots. He does not come across as one who accepts handlers of any type. Which is fine, but man there have been some real mis-steps from the very beginning of this campaign. Starting with the neglect of the 18-22 year old vote.

It actually probably started back in Arizona and his states inability to recognize MLK day (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/the-complicated.html) as a national holiday. Since we're talking about veiled racism.

QueenAdrock

10-13-2008, 12:16 PM

But I never denied the fact that that racism exists, you and Lambert have tried to deny that racism exists in blacks.

We were talking about why Blacks vote for Obama, and you said "You don't think there's racist blacks?" and I responded with: I'm sure there are some. But that's not the reason why they're NOT voting for McCain.

That's what we've been arguing. Brett's said the same thing.

RobMoney$

10-14-2008, 07:03 PM

Apparently, Obama supporters can be pretty ugly too.

http://www.comcast.net/data/fan/html/popup.html?v=888620113&pl=Comcast/889422703.xml&launchpoint=Cover&cid=fancover&attr=default_headline&config=/config/common/fan/default.xml&cvqh=TIV_shirts

kaiser soze

10-14-2008, 08:24 PM

fox news and nothing to prove it, like I can believe that!

:rolleyes:

DroppinScience

10-14-2008, 08:31 PM

I think the Comcast link doesn't allow viewers outside the U.S. to view that video. What did it have?

kaiser soze

10-14-2008, 08:51 PM

some people from fox news saying that some Obama supporters were wearing shirts that say "palin is a ...."

they wouldn't say what it said nor show pictures because they're so morally grounded ;)

kaiser soze

10-14-2008, 10:39 PM

huh, this was quite unexpected on so many levels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0&eurl

Laver1969

10-14-2008, 10:51 PM

huh, this was quite unexpected on so many levels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0&eurl

People are very uninformed....um...stupid.

Here's a bit that Sal from the Howard Stern show did. He went to Harlem and asked black people if they were for Obama or McCain. Then he asked attributed McCain's policies to Obama and they all agreed with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg

funk63

10-15-2008, 12:01 AM

People are very uninformed....um...stupid.

Here's a bit that Sal from the Howard Stern show did. He went to Harlem and asked black people if they were for Obama or McCain. Then he asked attributed McCain's policies to Obama and they all agreed with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg

haha!

RobMoney$

10-15-2008, 05:12 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg

[/thread].

travesty

10-15-2008, 06:36 AM

I heard that bit with Sal interviewing people live a week or so ago and about crashed my car. That shit absolutely proves that so many people, on both sides, vote based on looks, persona or simply to get along with their freinds instead of looking at the real issues. That's why most people are fine with only two candidates as well.

100% ILL

10-15-2008, 08:46 AM

Get with it yall. All McCain ever did was serve his country since he was like 20 or something, and Sarah Palin's just a devout Christian nut with a retarded baby. Any self-respecting liberal can see right through this obvious sham. These people really have no idea about convictions!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2uxhxosWo

yeahwho

10-15-2008, 03:17 PM

The citizens of the United States are very intelligent. I am continually in awe of my neighbors and co-workers. Not only are they extremely informed on political issues, my communities grasp on ecological, economical, pre-emptive military strikes and real poverty goes beyond thinking and into action. Even the few extremely rich people in my community are very politically active and charitable.

kaiser soze

10-17-2008, 11:49 AM

And it keeps going and going and going....

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/broward/blog/2008/10/incendiary_sign_in_mccain_offi.html

Among the images that greeted visitors to the John McCain campaign office in Pompano Beach this week was a sign headlined "Barrack Hussein Obama” that compared the Democratic presidential candidate to Karl Marx, Adolf Hitler and Fidel Castro.

I'm sure Broward republican Chairman chip lamarca didn't know it was hanging up....it is only hanging top center

republicans, act now...apologize later

jennyb

10-17-2008, 12:12 PM

I like to think in my heart of optimistic hearts that these 'racist mouth breathers' are a all too vocal minority that should never be given a microphone, let alone a cell phone with video capabilities... but it's pretty bad when their voices are being put out there on the Al Jazeera airwaves - yikes.

Check it out here. (http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/mccainpalin-supporters-let-their-rac)

yeahwho

10-17-2008, 12:59 PM

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around campaign ads that link Obama and democrats to terrorists (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/virginia_gop_mailer_appears_to.php). The fucking republicans that generate this hate can kiss my democratic ass.

Last night on Letterman John McCain defended his stance that his campaign believes Obama pals around with terrorists. He denied that this stance was inappropriate and continued to state wrongly as he did in the final debate that Obama did not repudiate Senator John lewis' statements (http://www.ajc.com/services/content/news/stories/2008/10/15/lewis.html). Barack Obama did. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/10/mccain-obama-2.html)

"Sen. Obama does not believe that John McCain or his policy criticism is in any way comparable to George Wallace or his segregationist policies," said the campaign statement. But wait! There's more:

"John Lewis was right to condemn some of the hateful rhetoric that John McCain himself personally rebuked just last night."

This is what John McCain does, this is what he likes to do and the sort of issues he's putting in the spotlight. Daily together with Sarah Palin. They want you to think about how dangerous the world will become unless they are put in the White House with their pleasant message of hatred and subtle racism.

kaiser soze

10-17-2008, 10:01 PM

Here's a not so veiled and admittedly proud racist statement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbbcVNOMqSk&eurl

This guy is an idiot and won't be treated lightly by the Secret Service

King PSYZ

10-17-2008, 10:26 PM

Any and all veiling of the attacks has gone right out the fucking window (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/10/obama-bucks-and.html)

Bob

10-17-2008, 10:30 PM

Any and all veiling of the attacks has gone right out the fucking window (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/10/obama-bucks-and.html)

"If I was racist, I would have looked at it through racist eyes," she said. "I am not racist, which is why it probably didn't register."

Club member Kristina Sandoval agreed.

"None of us are racists," she said.

The use of watermelon, ribs and fried chicken was innocent, she said.

"Everyone eats those foods, it's not a racial thing."

........................?

King PSYZ

10-18-2008, 07:38 AM

It's enough to give you a migraine huh?

kaiser soze

10-18-2008, 10:32 AM

Here comes rush limbaugh on the topic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiLVTzljOjA&eurl

oink

King PSYZ

10-18-2008, 11:58 AM

It's sad but I knew this election would force the racist underbelly of this country out from under the skirt of the GOP and openlly start speaking.

Like Pumpkinhead here likes to call ACORN a religon of it's own, being a white racist is becoming a movement all it's own.

Watch them become just as bold and offensive as they were before and during the heat of the civil rights movement once Obama is in office.

Documad

10-18-2008, 12:27 PM

Watch them become just as bold and offensive as they were before and during the heat of the civil rights movement once Obama is in office.

I hate to count my chickens because I'm a huge pessimist. So I hate to even think about what comes after the election. But I have been having these random thoughts lately:

Oh my, Fox News is going to love it if Obama gets elected. It will be like the Clinton years for them. All those nuts who thought Hillary murdered Vince Foster will be unleashed again.

And our country is in such bad shape that no one can turn this around in 2 or 4 years. So we're going to head into the next really horrible period with democrats in charge of everything. It will be a miracle if the house doesn't turn to republicans in two years because americans are impatient and they won't want to hear that the mistakes they made with their votes in 2000, 2002, and 2004 are the real cause for the mess we're in and that it's much harder to clean up a mess than to make one (unless you're the Cat in the Hat).

DroppinScience

10-18-2008, 12:54 PM

Watch them become just as bold and offensive as they were before and during the heat of the civil rights movement once Obama is in office.

First off, who is "them"? Politicians or random racist nuts?

Anyways, I don't agree that you'd see bold and offensive racism in the same vein as a Strom Thurmond because overt racism is far from socially acceptable in 2008. You'll never hear filibusters or rhetoric like the most offensive of segregationists throughout the '40s, '50s, and '60s. And unfortunately those views were considered more or less mainstream at the time.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a rise in white militias like what was seen in the Clinton years (i.e. McVeigh or the Unabomber). People on the far fringes may become emboldened, but how much of a presence remains to be seen.

yeahwho

10-18-2008, 02:48 PM

I hate to count my chickens because I'm a huge pessimist. So I hate to even think about what comes after the election. But I have been having these random thoughts lately.

It will be a better country no matter who gets elected. I honestly believe the World view will improve, John McCain or Barack Obama will both be perceived as a huge change in global politics. I think at this point Barack Obama is going to win, but he will face strong domestic opposition from republicans for the first few years, until he has a success of major proportions. If McCain wins he'll spend at least two years, maybe the rest of his term trying to recoup the fact that he went negative for months on end to get into office, it's going to haunt him. Sarah Palin will become one of the most dangerous people on earth.

kaiser soze

10-18-2008, 04:10 PM

I am convinced there is a connection between the convenient releasing of the "Obsession" video and these false claims of Obama's relationships to terrorists.

The video was a way to stir the fear and racism before the mccain campaign started making these absurd connections.

travesty

10-18-2008, 04:19 PM

And our country is in such bad shape that no one can turn this around in 2 or 4 years. So we're going to head into the next really horrible period with democrats in charge of everything. It will be a miracle if the house doesn't turn to republicans in two years because americans are impatient and they won't want to hear that the mistakes they made with their votes in 2000, 2002, and 2004 are the real cause for the mess we're in and that it's much harder to clean up a mess than to make one (unless you're the Cat in the Hat).

That's why I think McCain doesn't seem so interested in winning anymore.

RobMoney$

10-18-2008, 04:25 PM

I am convinced there is a connection between the convenient releasing of the "Obsession" video and these false claims of Obama's relationships to terrorists.

So tell me, which claims of relationships with terrorists were false?

William Ayres? true
Al-mansour? true
Rashid Khalid? true

King PSYZ

10-18-2008, 04:39 PM

First off, who is "them"? Politicians or random racist nuts?

Anyways, I don't agree that you'd see bold and offensive racism in the same vein as a Strom Thurmond because overt racism is far from socially acceptable in 2008. You'll never hear filibusters or rhetoric like the most offensive of segregationists throughout the '40s, '50s, and '60s. And unfortunately those views were considered more or less mainstream at the time.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a rise in white militias like what was seen in the Clinton years (i.e. McVeigh or the Unabomber). People on the far fringes may become emboldened, but how much of a presence remains to be seen.

It's random racist nuts first, but don't be suprised to see some random racist nuts run for office. David Duke anyone?

I'm glad your positive that the strom thurmond types won't be as bold, and god willing, I hope I am wrong and you are right about this.

But looking at the boldness of attacks, insults, and smears of late... well it doesn't look do good.

DroppinScience

10-18-2008, 08:02 PM

It's random racist nuts first, but don't be suprised to see some random racist nuts run for office. David Duke anyone?

True, there's always David Duke, but correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he lose every time he ran for Congress (and he's tried both as a Republican AND a Democrat)? He appeals to his fringe, Holocaut-denying weirdos, but doesn't have much currency elsewhere.

King PSYZ

10-18-2008, 11:00 PM

Right but if there's a black man in the white house you can bet he could find more than a few people who would up his credit

Laver1969

10-20-2008, 08:30 PM

It's random racist nuts first, but don't be suprised to see some random racist nuts run for office. David Duke anyone?

I actually witnessed the David Duke campaign first-hand. I lived near the area where he was a state represtative in Louisiana. He came damn close to winning the governorship in 1991. I know of bars where David Duke signs are still hanging.

The gubernatorial race was touted as the crook vs. the klansman. The crook ended up winning. His name was Edwin Edwards and he has served as Governor in 70s, 80s and 90s. In 2001 he was sentenced to prison for racketeering. I'll bet Bush gives him a pardon before he leaves office.

David Duke is a complete racist nutjob.

kaiser soze

10-20-2008, 09:01 PM

RobMoney$

10-20-2008, 09:08 PM

That's probably the best thing I've seen you post in this forum. (y)

kaiser soze

10-20-2008, 09:12 PM

DroppinScience

10-20-2008, 09:26 PM

Muslim meltdown at mccain rally.

Man who spouts propaganda against Islam is confronted by Muslim and other mccain supporters (y)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl2EndLZv7w&eurl

Isn't Obama a Christian by the way?

Actually, big ups for those McCain supporters (Muslim and Christian alike) to call out that anti-Islam bigot and he's sent home walking in embarrassment. It's good to know there's some sanity from that side, too.

kaiser soze

10-20-2008, 09:41 PM

I agree

King PSYZ

10-20-2008, 09:43 PM

It's a bit of trying to put the bogeyman back under the bed though isn't it?

The same campaign riles up the electorate and the ugly underbelly of republican supporters and racists by trying to make claims of Obama "palling around with terrorists" to earlier comments about how they don't have any evidence pointing to Obama not or being Muslim a backhanded way of saying you figure it out, ;);)... and now talking about Obama being a Socialist or anti American or preferring to hang out and stump anti-American towns, whatever the fuck that means... I have yet to see or hear about Obama out to speak in Ottowa or Vancouver in the last few weeks, everywhere has been in America.

The point is, they appeal to the basest of their base and then are appalled when it works...

And for the record, the country has been a socialist one since 1935 when Social Security was started, not to mention Medicare/caid (which McCain is on...) And even still if those making 280k a year can't swing an extra $900.00 then fuck em, they're being babies. Last year I paid out a lot in taxes and make a moderate living and somehow made it work. If I took home 280k a year I probablly wouldn't notice $900 or would find a deduction or writeoff to make up for it... Like buying a hybrid vehicle and getting one of Obama's tax reliefs, or hiring Americans and getting tax credits for that. And I'd say a good chunk of the 2% making 280k or more probablly have kids, so they get a better deduction there too...

DroppinScience

10-20-2008, 11:32 PM

It's a bit of trying to put the bogeyman back under the bed though isn't it?

It's also kind of sad that those McCain supporters were much more forceful in denouncing those who say he's a "Muslim terrorist" than McCain and Palin themselves.

Ali

10-21-2008, 08:41 AM

LOL at the McCain supporters shouting 'Socialists!'.

Do they know who owns their banks?

One guy couldn't even pronounce Obama, yet claimed to be a perfeshnl.

kaiser soze

10-23-2008, 11:18 AM

Vote john mccain not Barack Hussein?

Shouldn't it be vote john sydney not Barack Hussein?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSHsM9OzHGE&eurl

morans

King PSYZ

10-23-2008, 01:28 PM

Sydney?! Sydney?!

He's a traitor of the Austraillian / American war!*

*GTA ref.

kaiser soze

10-23-2008, 02:52 PM

and there ya go

It's in his bloodline (n)

jennyb

10-24-2008, 08:02 PM

NPR has an amazing series on exploring race and the election called "The York Project" (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95934562)

To tackle the complexities of race deeper than the election polls, NPR hosts Michele Norris and Steve Inskeep periodically travel to York, Pa. In a series of conversations, voters — black, white and brown — discuss their experiences with race and how they will play into choices at the polls.

kaiser soze

10-25-2008, 01:18 AM

Thousands of men and women who are not white and may have a different religion are serving in a war to "defend" the right of these people to be what they are....a disgrace to America.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TY-B_QPuRf8&eur

yeahwho

10-25-2008, 01:37 AM

GOP - Party of "Family Values" -Hits Obama on "Grandma" Trip (http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=33373)

DroppinScience

10-25-2008, 03:42 AM

GOP - Party of "Family Values" -Hits Obama on "Grandma" Trip (http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=33373)

I guess they really want to lose badly this November. :rolleyes:

kaiser soze

10-28-2008, 05:42 PM

Here comes the Hate Talk Express

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL20TdHjX2s&eurl

RobMoney$

10-28-2008, 05:53 PM

Just wondering why Obama supporters would go out to a McCain stop in the first place though?

kaiser soze

10-28-2008, 05:58 PM

agreed

but it's not illegal

RobMoney$

10-28-2008, 06:17 PM

I mean what are they trying to accomplish by chanting "O-bam-a" at a crowd full of McCain supporters
and then shoving a camera in their faces? Goading much?

Do the same to a bunch of Obama supporters and I'll bet you'd see just as many kooks on that side of the fence.

ms.peachy

10-29-2008, 05:10 AM

Do the same to a bunch of Obama supporters and I'll bet you'd see just as many kooks on that side of the fence.

What're you talking about? I don't know what they are showing over there, but on BBC I have seen reports of people outside Obama rallies screaming "terrorist!" etc etc at people there. The best retort I saw from an Obama supporter was "Shouldn't you be at home reading your bible?" No one seems to have suggested actually killing John McCain.

Seriously. There are good and bad on both sides, no doubt. Saints and sinners everywhere. But it seems really freakin' clear that the level of misbehavior and vitriol is overwhelmingly weighted on the Republican side.

RobMoney$

10-29-2008, 12:01 PM

But it seems really freakin' clear that the level of misbehavior and vitriol is overwhelmingly weighted on the Republican side.

Or at least that's the story the liberal media will have you believe.

King PSYZ

10-29-2008, 02:03 PM

the liberal BRITISH media?

ms.peachy

10-29-2008, 02:09 PM

the liberal BRITISH media?

Oh you know, we're all commie faggots over here. It's a whole fag country, as Archie Bunker said.

King PSYZ

10-29-2008, 02:11 PM

Oh you know, we're all commie faggots over here. It's a whole fag country, as Archie Bunker said.

PINKO SWINE!

saz

10-29-2008, 06:20 PM

Or at least that's the story the liberal media will have you believe.

yeah rob, the "liberal" media that is owned and controlled by a small handful of multinational corporate conglomerates, which continually shoves nader, kucinich and bernie sanders down american's throats, and really did their job scrutinizing the bush administration's rush to invade iraq. nah, they completely did their job and didn't regurgitate the bush administration's propaganda. very well spoken and a spot on observation from a "lifelong democrat".

RobMoney$

10-29-2008, 07:13 PM

BARACK OBAMA

231 daily newspapers total
More than 21,315, 576 daily circulation total

ALABAMA (3)
The Florence Times Daily: 29,200
The Montgomery Advertiser (K): 45,060
Tuscaloosa News (K): 32,768

ALASKA (1)
Anchorage Daily News (K): 62,893

CALIFORNIA (30)
The Argus (Fremont) (K): 26,749
Contra Costa Times (Walnut Creek) (K): 183,086
Daily Breeze (Torrance) (B): 66,599
The Daily Democrat (Woodland): 8,883
Daily News (Los Angeles) (K): 137,344
Daily Review (Hayward) (K): 30,704
The Fresno Bee (K): 150,334
Inland Valley Daily Bulletin (Ontario) (B): 53,903
La Opinion (Los Angeles) (K): 114,892
Long Beach Press Telegram (B): 85,595
Los Angeles Times (N): 773,884
Marin Independent-Journal (K): 31,909
Merced Sun Star (K): 15,015
The Modesto Bee (K): 78,001
The Monterey County Herald (K): 28,933
Oakland Tribune (K): 96,535
Pasadena Star-News (B): 27,894
The Reporter (Vacaville) (B): 17,751
San Gabriel Valley Tribune (B): 40,051
San Mateo Daily Journal: 14,800
Tahoe Daily Tribune: 7,723
The (Stockton) Record (B): 57,486
The Sacramento Bee (K): 288,755
San Bernardino Sun (B): 54,315
San Francisco Chronicle (K): 370,345
San Jose Mercury News (K): 234,772
San Mateo County Times (K): 25,982
Santa Cruz Sentinel (K): 23,290
The Press Democrat (Santa Rosa) (K): 78,022
Tri-Valley Herald (B): 29,759

COLORADO (10)
Aspen Daily News (K): 12,500
The Aurora Sentinel (K): 46,000
Boulder Camera (K): 28,994
Cortez Journal (K): 6,700
The Denver Post (B): 225,193
The Durango Herald (K): 8,870
Fort Collins Coloradoan (K): 26,312
Gunnison Country Times (N): 4,000
Ouray County Plaindealer (K): 3,000
Vail Daily: 10,525

CONNECTICUT (4)
The Day (New London) (K): 34,730
The Hartford Courant (B): 168,158
New Haven Register (B): 72,613
Norwich Bulletin (K): 22,121

DELAWARE (1)
The News Journal (Wilmington) (K): 110,171

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA (1)
The Washington Post (K): 673,180

FLORIDA (12)
Daytona Beach News-Journal (K): 99,627
Florida Today (Melbourne) (K): 79,499
The Gainesville Sun (K): 44,658
Lakeland Ledger (B): 65,948
Miami Herald (K): 240,223
Naples Daily-News (B): 66,272
Orlando Sentinel (K): 227,593
The Palm Beach Post (K): 164,474
Pensacola News-Journal: 57,069
St. Petersburg Times (K): 316,007
Sarasota Herald-Tribune (K): 114,904
South Florida Sun-Sentinel (Ft. Lauderdale) (K): 218,286

GEORGIA (3)
Atlanta Journal-Constitution (K): 326,907
The Columbus Ledger-Enquirer (B): 42,830
The Macon Telegraph (K): 56,510

HAWAII (2)
The Honolulu Advertiser (K): 140,331
Honolulu Star-Bulletin (K): 64,305

IDAHO (1)
Idaho Statesman (K): 61,927

ILLINOIS (9)
Chicago Tribune (B): 541,663
Chicago Sun-Times (K): 312,274
Daily Herald (Arlington) (K): 143,152
Galesburg Register-Mail: 13,344
Herald & Review (Decatur) (B): 34,480
Lake County News-Sun (Waukegan) (B): 16,899
The Pantagraph (Bloomington) (B): 47,764
Rockford Register Star (K): 55,913
Southwest News-Herald (K): 9,300

INDIANA (4)
Journal and Courier (West Lafayette) (K): 34,545
The Journal Gazette (Fort Wayne) (K): 64,304
Muncie Star-Press: 31,512
Palladium-Item (Richmond) (B): 15,453

IOWA (6)
The Des Moines Register (K): 138,472
The Hawk Eye (Burlington) (K): 18,921
Mason City Globe Gazette (B): 17,666
Ottumwa Courier: 16,904
The Quad-City Times (Davenport) (K): 51,890
The Storm Lake Times (K): 3,200

KANSAS (2)
The Hays Daily News: 12,414
The Hutchinson News (K)

KENTUCKY (3)
The Ledger Independent (Maysville): 9,074
Lexington Herald-Leader (K):109,624
The Courier-Journal (Louisville) (K): 215,328

LOUISIANA (2)
The Times (Shreveport): 52,267
The Times-Picayune (New Orleans) (N): 179,834

MAINE (3)
Bangor Daily News (K): 55,627
Brunswick Times-Record (K): 9,317
Portland Press Herald (K): 64,938

MARYLAND (1)
The Sun (Baltimore) (K): 232,360

MASSACHUSETTS (7)
The Berkshire Eagle (Pittsfield) (K): 26,427
The Boston Globe (K): 350,605
The Recorder (Greenfield): 13,578
North Adams Transcript: 5,949
The Salem News
The Standard-Times (New Bedford) (K): 30,306
Telegram & Gazette (Worcester) (K): 81,437

MICHIGAN (8)
The Bay City Times (K): 30,183
Battle Creek Enquirer (K): 20,854
Detroit Free Press (K): 308,944
Lansing State Journal (K): 58,948
Livingston County Daily Press & Argus (Howell) (K): 13,131
Michigan Chronicle (Detroit) (N): 31,872
The Muskegon Chronicle (K): 41,114
The Saginaw News (K): 39,143

MINNESOTA (2)
St. Cloud Times (K): 25,868
Star Tribune (Minneapolis) (K): 321,964

MISSOURI (4)
Columbia Daily Tribune (K): 18,131
The Joplin Globe (B)
The Kansas City Star (K): 252,785
St. Louis Post-Dispatch (K): 255,057

MONTANA (1)
Billings Gazette (K): 45,530

NEVADA (2)
Las Vegas Sun (K): 174,341
Reno Gazette-Journal (K): 57,423

NEW HAMPSHIRE (6)
Concord Monitor (K): 19,885
The Conway Daily Sun (N): 16,100
The Kenne Sentinel (K): 12,119
Nashua Telegraph (K): 24,272
Portsmouth Herald (K): 11,658
Valley News (K): 16,430

NEW JERSEY (7)
Asbury Park Press (Neptune) (B): 140,882
Courier-Post (Cherry Hill): 66,617
Home News Tribune (East Brunswick): 49,076
The Record (Bergen) (K): 163,329
The Gloucester County Times (Woodbury) (K): 23,189
Star-Ledger (Newark) (K): 345,130
The Times of Trenton (K): 54,745

NEW MEXICO (3)
Las Cruces Sun-News (B): 21,341
The Daily Times (Farmington) (B): 17,485
Santa Fe New Mexican (K): 25,249

NEW YORK (12)
Buffalo News (K): 178,365
Daily News (B): 703,137
The Daily Star (Oneonta) (K): 14,391
el Diario (K): 53,856
The Journal-News (White Plains) (K): 108,092
The New York Times (K): 1,077,256
The Post-Star (Glens Falls) (K): 30,265
The Poughkeepsie Journal (B): 37,265
Times Herald-Record (Middletown): 75,745
Rochester Democrat and Chronicle (K): 145,913
Syracuse Post-Standard: 110,061
Times-Union (Albany) (K): 89,256

NORTH CAROLINA (6)
Asheville Citizen-Times (K): 50,160
Charlotte Observer (K): 210,616
The Daily Reflector (Greenville) (K): 21,703
Durham Herald-Sun (N): 32,845
News & Observer (Raleigh) (K): 176,083
Wilmington Star-News (K): 47,620

OHIO (12)
Akron Beacon-Journal (K): 119,929
The Blade (Toledo) (K): 119,901
Dayton Daily News (K): 116,690
Hamilton Journal-News (B): 19,432
Middletown Journal: 17,285
News Journal (Mansfield) (B): 28,272
Telegraph-Forum (Bucyrus)
The Repository (Canton) (B): 65,789
The Times-Reporter (New Philadelphia) (B): 22,428
Springfield News-Sun (K): 24,684
The Plain Dealer (Cleveland) (N): 330,280
The Vindicator (Youngstown) (B): 56,412

OKLAHOMA (1)
Muskogee Daily Phoenix (K): 14,816

OREGON (9)
Ashland Daily Tidings: 5,010
Corvallis Gazette-Times: 12,092
East Oregonian (Pendleton) (K): 9,071
The Daily Astorian (Astoria) (K): 8,263
Mail Tribune (Medford) (K): 30,349
The Oregonian (Portland) (K): 304,399
Register-Guard (Eugene) (K): 67,400
Statesman-Journal (Salem) (K): 47,152
Yamhill Valley News-Register (McMinnville) (B): 10,921

PENNSYLVANIA (17)
Beaver County Times (K): 38,654
The Daily Item (Sunbury) (N): 24,879
The Delaware County Daily Times: 42,879
Erie Times-News (B): 55,397
The Express-Times (Easton) (B): 44,561
Harrisburg Patriot-News: 95,588
Herald-Standard (Uniontown) (K): 24,341
Intelligencer Journal (Lancaster): 46,357
The Mercury (Pottstown): 21,186
Observer-Reporter (Washington) (K): 31,755
Philadelphia Daily News: 107,269
Philadelphia Inquirer (K): 334,150
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (K): 214,374
Pocono Record (Stroudsburg): 18,276
Times-Leader (Wilkes Barre) (K): 38,229
The Times-Tribune (Scranton): 52,711
York Daily Record (B): 47,969

RHODE ISLAND (1)
Providence Journal (B): 139,055

TENNESSEE (3)
Chattanooga Times (K): 71,716
The Commercial Appeal (Memphis) (K): 146,961
The (Nashville) Tennessean (K): 161,131

TEXAS (7)
Austin American-Statesman (B): 170,309
The Eagle (Bryan-College Station): 21,654
Fort Worth Star-Telegram (B): 207,045
Houston Chronicle (B): 494,131
Longview News-Journal (K): 27,590
The Lufkin Daily News (K): 12,225
San Angelo Standard-Times: 24,919

UTAH (1)
The Salt Lake Tribune (B): 121,699

VERMONT (3)
The Bennington Banner (K): 6,502
The Brattleboro Reformer (K): 8,814
Burlington Free Press (K): 41,901

VIRGINIA (2)
Falls Church News-Press (K): 30,500
The Daily News Leader (Staunton) (B): 17,238

WASHINGTON (9)
The Columbian (B): 44,623
Kitsap Sun (Bremerton): 28,792
The News Tribune (Tacoma) (K): 111,778
The Olympian (Olympia) (K): 30,755
Seattle Post-Intelligencer (K): 129,563
The Seattle Times (K): 220,883
Tri-City Herald (K): 40,830
Walla Walla Union-Bulletin (K): 13,624
Wenatchee World: 22,579
Yakima Herald-Republic (B): 38,077

WEST VIRGINIA (3)
The Charleston Gazette (K): 48,061
Huntington Herald-Dispatch (K): 27,463
The Times West Virginian: 10,415

WISCONSIN (7)
The Capital Times (Madison) (K): 16,335
The Chippewa Herald (Chippewa Falls) (B): 6,720
Kenosha News (K): 24,535
LaCrosse Tribune (K): 31,759
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (K): 217,755
Stevens Point Journal: 11,234
Wisconsin State Journal (Madison) (B): 87,930

SOME WEEKLIES / COLLEGE / MISCELLANEOUS

BARACK OBAMA (35)
Abeline Christian University Optimist
Arkansas Times (Little Rock)
>>> Athens News (Ohio)
Boulder Weekly
The Bowdoin Orient (Bowdoin College)
The Colorado Daily
The Chronicle (Duke University)
Cincinnati CityBeat
City Newspaper (Rochester, NY)
The Columbia Independent (New York)
Creative Loafing (Charlotte)
The Daily Californian (University of California, Berkeley)
The Daily Illini (University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign)
Daily Northwestern (Northwestern University)
EPG News
Hoy
Hunterdon Review (Clinton, NJ)
Independent Weekly (North Carolina)
Indian Country Today
Mace and Crown (Old Dominion University, VA)
The Mac Weekly (Macalester College)
New York Observer
News-Register (McMinnville, OR)
The Pacific Northwest Inlander (Spokane, WA)
The Portland Observer (Oregon)
Roxbury Register (New Jersey)
San Diego CityBeat
Santa Barbara Independent (California)
Santa Monica Mirror (California)
Southtown Star (Chicago)
The Stranger (Seattle)
The Tennessee Tribune (Nashville)
Tuscon Weekly (Arizona)
The Virginia Gazette (Williamsburg)
Windsor Beacon (Colorado)
Metro Santa Cruz (California)
Willamette Week (Portland, OR)

Clearly, the "Corporate Conglomerate" media is not out for Obama.
I really wish they'd quit shoving Kucinich & Nader down my throat?
I don't know what the hell I was talking about?