Obama's Civilian Security Force?

[RobMoney$]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

Is there one person in the media that has the guts to ask just WTF he's talking about here, exactly?
Honestly, that's the most frightening thing I've ever heard from a Presidential Candidate in my life.

I'd sure like it if my Non-biased press would get some answers for me on that one.

[ms.peachy]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that perhaps seeing the entire speech with this remark in context might provide some sort of clue as to "wtf he's talking about here, exactly", rather than just a deliberately edited20 second clip. But wtf do I know, exactly.

[RobMoney$]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df2p6867_pw&feature=related

Here's the entire speech. The quote in question comes in around 16:30, but I'll suggest you start around the 11:00 mark for context.

It's even better than I thought.
With a slew of veterans stuffing the stands behind him, Obama talks about increasing the size of military? LOLZWTF
Are you serious? Is there anything he won't say to pander for a vote?
Increasing his wife's non-profit org. "Ameri-corp" and doubling the size of the Peace corp, and he's going to force middle-school, HS, and College kids to volunteer for "service" to help with all of this.

This guy's gonna spend like a drunk in a liquor store on the 1st of the month.

[ms.peachy]

Having now seen it in its proper context, I certainly see nothing wrong with the snippet from your original posting, and to me it's very clear wtf he's talking about, exactly. He is talking about expanding the Peace Corps and Americorps, so that there is a civilian 'force for good' in the world that is as valued and respected both within the US and by the world as its military. I think that's a great idea.

[pshabi]

[QUOTE=RobMoney$;1628726 and he's going to force middle-school, HS, and College kids to volunteer for "service" to help with all of this.
[/QUOTE]

Not sure how you "force" someone to "volunteer" unless you are insinuating Obama will institute a draft. :confused:

If so, I've got some kool aid for you. If not, wtf are you talking about?

[RobMoney$]

watch the video.

He's advocating a non-military public service corps that in his words is 'just as powerful, just as strong,' and 'just as well-funded' as the military.
That would cost somewhere between $100 and $500 billion, or between 10 and 50 percent of all federal income tax revenues, and no one from the press is asking a goddamn thing about this.

He's going to require middle school and HS kids to "volunteer for service" 50 hours and college kids 100 hours. But I'm sure that's not who he has in mind for this "Security Force" of Ameri-corp, Peace-corp and whatever else he may have in mind. He's wasn't very specific and that's why I want to know more about this.
He didn't outline how many hours for adults, but he sure sounded adamant about it in that speech.

There were once other famous Socialist leaders who created a Civilian Security Force also.
Russia called it the KGB.
Iraq under Sadaam called it the Republican Guard.
The Germans called it the SS.

He's going to be the #1 community organizer in the world.

[Bob]

There were once other famous Socialist leaders who created a Civilian Security Force also.
Russia called it the KGB.
Iraq under Sadaam called it the Republican Guard.
The Germans called it the SS.

He's going to be the #1 community organizer in the world.

you have to be shitting me

[DroppinScience]

I think RobMoney has veered off into alien autopsy territory. It's too late, ladies and gentlemen. He's beyond help.

[Knuckles]

I think I'm starting to get it Rob.

Yeah... except I think Obama is a little more like Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.

Jesus, we're probably heading for a fucking clone war. :eek:

I'm headed to Dagobah.

[roosta]

what a clown this "Obama" is, a "peace corps" , "ending wars" , "bringing troops home". Someone needs to teach him what soldiers are supposed to do. McCain knows...die abroad!

Palin 2012!

[ms.peachy]

He's going to require middle school and HS kids to "volunteer for service" 50 hours and college kids 100 hours.


Obviously if it is to become a requirement, it is not volunteering. I can't for the life of me though see what is wrong with making a certain amount of pubic/community service compulsory for young Americans to earn their high school diploma, and for colleges and universities to make it a stipulation for their student populations. We all have a vested interest in young people becoming more invested in their local communities.

[Bob]

Obviously if it is to become a requirement, it is not volunteering. I can't for the life of me though see what is wrong with making a certain amount of pubic/community service compulsory for young Americans to earn their high school diploma, and for colleges and universities to make it a stipulation for their student populations. We all have a vested interest in young people becoming more invested in their local communities.

yeah you say that now, but when obama starts using the so-called "peace corps" to round up rich white folk and throw them in concentration camps? you'll be singing a different tune. you need look no further than north korea and the soviet union for proof of that, mark my words

[RobMoney$]

I'm just wondering why this hasn't been explored by the media more.
I mean Obama is advocating a program that's "just as powerful, just as strong, and just as well-funded as the military" could possibly require the constitution to be ammended to create, yet no one seems to be curious in the least about where funding for such programs will come from, or the details of "requiring people to volunteer" for them.

[abcdefz]

RobMoney: paranoia as pornography.

[Bob]

I'm just wondering why this hasn't been explored by the media more.
I mean Obama is advocating a program that's "just as powerful, just as strong, and just as well-funded as the military" could possibly require the constitution to be ammended to create, yet no one seems to be curious in the least about where funding for such programs will come from, or the details of "requiring people to volunteer" for them.

like nazi germany. right, i understand

[abcdefz]

Or Asgaard.

[ms.peachy]

I mean Obama is advocating a program that's "just as powerful, just as strong, and just as well-funded as the military" could possibly require the constitution to be ammended to create

I didn't get that he was necessarily talking about creating an entirely new program, but that he was looking at how existing programs could be expanded and better supported. "Support" doesn't necessarily mean government money - I should imagine we'd be looking at the continued growth of public-private partnerships. Again - I have no argument with this.

[abcdefz]

Or Asgaard.

[RobMoney$]

I didn't get that he was necessarily talking about creating an entirely new program, but that he was looking at how existing programs could be expanded and better supported. "Support" doesn't necessarily mean government money - I should imagine we'd be looking at the continued growth of public-private partnerships. Again - I have no argument with this.


An Energy Corp. would be a new program, no?
Doubling the size of the Peace Corp, I mean OK but is that going to be at the expense of the military budget?
I mean I'm all for decreasing the military budget, but it would have to be under the right circumstances which I don't see happening in the next 4 years at all.

"We cannot rely only on our military to achieve the national security objectives that we've set" - B.Obama

What's your take on that quote Ms. Peach?
I'd like to know exactly what that means.

[ms.peachy]

"We cannot rely only on our military to achieve the national security objectives that we've set" - B.Obama

What's your take on that quote Ms. Peach?
I'd like to know exactly what that means.

I would interpret that as, going around the world flexing our military muscle is not what is ultimately going to make America - and the world - safer. Yes of course, there are times when our military is absolutely the best resource we have in this area. However what needs to go hand in hand with that is we also need to restore the image of America as a force for justice, opportunity and equality in the world. Not just within our own borders, but wherever we go. Hearts and minds, and all that (except, like, for real, not the way we've ballsed it up in Iraq and Afghanistan etc etc).

[RobMoney$]

So we're going to send an army of bleeding hearts into Iraq to give hugs?

Part of the reason countries like France and Canada can afford to have their free, socialized healthcare programs is because they don't have to spend a lot on a military.
Good Ol' Uncle Sam is the unofficial Army of the UN and will defend them if need be.
Decreasing our defense is decreasing the defense of every one of our allies. I hope Obama realizes the severity of such a decision.

[kaiser soze]

Why haven't I heard a peep about Blackwater or Rogue agents in DHS from you?

:rolleyes:

[ms.peachy]

So we're going to send an army of bleeding hearts into Iraq to give hugs?


Do you want to actually have a conversation with me about this, or just be a patronising ass? Because honestly, if you genuinely want to know what I think I am happy to tell you; but if you just want to be a smarmy dillweed I do have other things I can do, like laundry.

[RobMoney$]

It was a joke. Guess it missed the mark.

By all means please don't let me keep you from your laundry though.
and you should probably get dinner started too. :p

[DroppinScience]

Part of the reason countries like France and Canada can afford to have their free, socialized healthcare programs is because they don't have to spend a lot on a military.
Good Ol' Uncle Sam is the unofficial Army of the UN and will defend them if need be.
Decreasing our defense is decreasing the defense of every one of our allies. I hope Obama realizes the severity of such a decision.

Do you honestly have any idea how HUGE the U.S. military budget is? It's higher than defense spending of something like the 5 or 6 next-highest defense spending nations COMBINED. Listen to me: COMBINED.

If even just a tiny, tiny fragment of the military budget (I'm talking only tiny single-digit percentage points) were diverted towards universal healthcare and/or education spending, not only would you be taking care of 300 million people, but you'd still have all the military arsenal to kick the ass of a crippled, 3rd world nation. Maybe this would mean only 99 Tomahawk missiles being created in a year instead for every 100 missiles (I can hear you protesting already, "You're surrendering to al-Qaeda!!!"), but that's the heavy price that would have to be played.

[RobMoney$]

Do you disagree with my statement about Canada's military budget, or lack of?

I'm aware of exactly how much our defense budget is, are you?
I mentioned it in this thread already.
This is why I'm concerned when someone throws the term "just as well-funded as our military" around.

I mean, REALLY?

If McCain had made such a statement don't you think somebody would have some questions for him about it?
You betcha;)

[DroppinScience]

Do you disagree with my statement about Canada's military budget, or lack of?

Yes, Canada has a small military budget. You mentioned France in your earlier post. I think they're a better example than Canada. They actually rank very high among countries in defense spending, within the Top 5. This is still peanuts compared to what the U.S. spends, because comparatively speaking, every other country is spending peanuts. Nevertheless, they pull off this marvellous feat of giving their citizens health care and spending an obscene amount on nukes. I don't care what bullshit mythology you'll come up with to justify it, the U.S. does not need to spend the amount they spend on the military.

However, since you're worked into a tizzy over Obama's Peace Corps military industrial complex being as "well-funded" as the military, I think you can relax. Nothing will EVER be as well-funded as the military, so relax with the hyper-dramatic Soviet/Nazi parallels. You already compared Obama's tax plan to the Holocaust. If you keep stressing like this, you'll get a heart attack.

As an aside, you may be interested to know that Canada's defense budget has been going up, up, up in recent years due to our Conservative government and our very own mini-"surge" of troops in Afghanistan.

[yeahwho]

I'm curious if the "Obama Youth" uniforms are going to involve spats. I think spats are a cool look.

[RobMoney$]

Yes, Canada has a small military budget. You mentioned France in your earlier post. I think they're a better example than Canada. They actually rank very high among countries in defense spending, within the Top 5. This is still peanuts compared to what the U.S. spends, because comparatively speaking, every other country is spending peanuts. Nevertheless, they pull off this marvellous feat of giving their citizens health care and spending an obscene amount on nukes. I don't care what bullshit mythology you'll come up with to justify it, the U.S. does not need to spend the amount they spend on the military.


Like I've already stated, I'd be all for cutting military spending under the proper circumstances.
You can point to how much we spend on something as blantly overt as the amount of nuclear weapons we produce, an obvious thing someone against military spending would point to,

But,

What I am 100% opposed to is cutting funding into military research. Remaining the world's leader in R&D of efficient military weapons and strategies should remain a priority at almost any cost.

[DroppinScience]

Like I've already stated, I'd be all for cutting military spending under the proper circumstances.

Everyone has said this for the past 60+ years but when exactly are the proper circumstances? Define what they are because nobody has found them yet.

Ever since the Cold War began, military spending has skyrocketed. There were only two brief moments of flirtation of cutting military spending. This happened with Harry Truman when he talked of cutting the budget. Then the Korean War reared its ugly head and it skyrocketed.

With the implosion of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War, the defense industry literally panicked that they *gasp* may have no enemy to target and the appetite would be there among the people to FINALLY start cutting the budget. Cue in Saddam Hussein and his invasion of Kuwait and they were jubilant. Military spending continued to skyrocket.

With Clinton, there was even whimsical talk of cutting the budget (but only extremely minuscule amounts), but that never happened. Military spending continued to escalate.

Again, define the appropriate circumstances because I'm going to tell you there will NEVER be a case where spending will decrease. People like you are going to come up with half-assed reasons to keep things the way they are and screw the ordinary people out of having a more fair deal because they wouldn't have so many missiles to kill so many people. Boo. Hoo. Even if the budget does decrease, we're only going to be talking about pathetically marginal percentage points, if even that.

[Dorothy Wood]

I ain't skeered.

I wonder if mandatory public service will work though. when I was in high school and college trying to pump up my credentials (and give back, build character, whatever) with community service, there were a lot of assholes that were just there so they could put it on a resume. people that said things like, "they just seemed so dirty, I didn't want to touch them" after visiting and doing crafts with kids and mothers at a women's shelter in detroit...then they tried to make me feel bad because I was picking kids up. or the people who stood around chatting instead of doing any real work in downtown cincinnati when we were supposed to be raking leaves or whatever and me and the girl with the crazy bad acne were the only ones even doing anything.

accountability is tough when it's a volunteer situation. I was raised to be a hard worker and I'm usually a goody goody to boot, so even if no one's watching I usually put forth my best effort. I'd be interested to know what kind of measures will be put in place to ensure that the quality of the work put out by volunteers is good enough to make a difference and that the programs run efficiently and productively.

[RobMoney$]

Everyone has said this for the past 60+ years but when exactly are the proper circumstances? Define what they are because nobody has found them yet.

Ever since the Cold War began, military spending has skyrocketed. There were only two brief moments of flirtation of cutting military spending. This happened with Harry Truman when he talked of cutting the budget. Then the Korean War reared its ugly head and it skyrocketed.

With the implosion of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War, the defense industry literally panicked that they *gasp* may have no enemy to target and the appetite would be there among the people to FINALLY start cutting the budget. Cue in Saddam Hussein and his invasion of Kuwait and they were jubilant. Military spending continued to skyrocket.

With Clinton, there was even whimsical talk of cutting the budget (but only extremely minuscule amounts), but that never happened. Military spending continued to escalate.

Again, define the appropriate circumstances because I'm going to tell you there will NEVER be a case where spending will decrease. People like you are going to come up with half-assed reasons to keep things the way they are and screw the ordinary people out of having a more fair deal because they wouldn't have so many missiles to kill so many people. Boo. Hoo. Even if the budget does decrease, we're only going to be talking about pathetically marginal percentage points, if even that.


The "right circumstances" means when we no longer have as pressing a need for our military as we do right now.
We can debate all day about the merits of why we find ourselves in Iraq, but the bottom line is we're there and we need to stay there as long as we need to at this point until the area is stable both for the people of Iraq and for our own interests. It's the only responsible thing we can do at this point.
And I do believe we're making a difference over there. I believe the young people of Iraq do not feel the same way about the US as the older people do. We need to win the young people of Iraq's hearts and minds in order to win this thing.

You also have to take into acount how many middle-class people are employed in this country directly by our defense budget at places like Boeing.
I'd think eliminating such outrageous mismanagement of money the military is usually guilty of, such as spending a hundered dollars on something like a roll of toilet paper is where I would like to see savings.

[saz]

So we're going to send an army of bleeding hearts into Iraq to give hugs?

Part of the reason countries like France and Canada can afford to have their free, socialized healthcare programs is because they don't have to spend a lot on a military.
Good Ol' Uncle Sam is the unofficial Army of the UN and will defend them if need be.
Decreasing our defense is decreasing the defense of every one of our allies. I hope Obama realizes the severity of such a decision.

Do you disagree with my statement about Canada's military budget, or lack of?

bloody hell, the canadian military has been in afghanistan since 2002, fighting al qaeda, taliban fighters, and other insurgents. the war in afghanistan has so far cost us approximately 18 billion. what you're also failing to take into consideration is all of the waste and pork in the annual us defence budget.

[travesty]

One more step AWAY from freedom. I don't have a problem with youth service programs at all. I think it could do some really good things and should be encouraged of all youths to participate in some sort of civic organization. I did and it has helped me be abetter adult (I think). HOWEVER to make it mandatory is competely UN-American, un-constitutional and should not be tolerated. That is absurd. It would be very dangerous to allow your children to be indoctrinated by a government program that may not agree with your ideals. Public schools are bad enough. This is not something the government should be running. Another wasteful program.