palin thinks we're at war with iran?

[Bob]

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/11/did_palin_suggest_were_at_war.php

We realize that more and more Americans are starting to see the light there and understand the contrast. And we talk a lot about, OK, we're confident that we're going to win on Tuesday, so from there, the first 100 days, how are we going to kick in the plan that will get this economy back on the right track and really shore up the strategies that we need over in Iraq and Iran to win these wars?

video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D9LofMCa8A)

she either:

a) misspoke
b) is dumb
c) let slip a talking point from the future by mistake

judges?

i can't wait until tomorrow, when she goes back to alaska and we hopefully never hear from her again. maybe E! will have a story now and then but beyond that...

[Documad]

wishful thinking?

[mikizee]

Palin in the White House is a very scary thought at the least.

The world is fucked if they get in.

[Bob]

Palin in the White House is a very scary thought at the least.

The world is fucked if they get in.

she makes bush look like obama in terms of eloquence/competence

seriously, mccain picked that. he picked that to be his running mate, he picked that to be president in case something happens to him, he trusts that with the fate of the country. the ratings boost that he got when he surprised everyone by picking her had to be nice, but damn, did he not realize that he was stuck with her if he won, and that fact might make people not want him to win?

[King PSYZ]

there's long swirled about rumors as one of Bush's last f-u's to the American people he'd start a war with Iran before leaving office.

considering the general rape of natural resources in the last week by W I don't put it out of the realm of possible outcomes now.

but Palin is dumb as dirt and is frankly becoming dangerous. inciting the mob mentality at rallies, speaking on subjects she has no grasp of, and now inciting war with another country... beautiful...

in all honesty, the USA needs to drop the cop act. Obama as well. We need to redirect our attention internally until we get things right here, then we have a place to say do things our way, look how well it turned out.

[kaiser soze]

palin is at war with everyone

WWJD?

:rolleyes:

[jennyb]

From what I've seen thus far of Palin, I'd take an educated guess and say 'B'

[kaiser soze]

in all honesty, the USA needs to drop the cop act. Obama as well. We need to redirect our attention internally until we get things right here, then we have a place to say do things our way, look how well it turned out.

Absolutely! How can we go about telling others what to do when we can't even get our own house cleaned up. Billions of dollars WASTED on looking imperialistic while our own citizens suffer under the hand of man and mother nature. We're outsourcing our jobs, we're neglecting the needs of our citizens, we're letting our infrastructure rot. Time to rebuild, but we must regroup first and soon.

We are not the world's police, but we are becoming one of the world's biggest bullies and this international perception needs to be fixed or the U.S. will become a pariah.

[RobMoney$]

Oh, so I guess we're allies with Ahmadinejad now?
I'm sure glad I know all you smrt people to tell me these things.

[Documad]

Oh, so I guess we're allies with Ahmadinejad now?
I'm sure glad I know all you smrt people to tell me these things.

No, we're not. But we're not at war with Iran either. Not even close. I will bet that YOU knew that before I told you. :)

And I'm comforted by the fact that Obama and Biden know how the government of Iran is set up. It's not all about one leader there. I hope they will use that knowledge to avoid war with Iran rather than to start one. The whole world knows we're already spread too thin. We couldn't possibly take on Iran now. In fact, our war with Iraq STRENGTHENED Iran's power.

[RobMoney$]

I'd bomb their nuclear facilities tommorrow if it were up to me.

[mikizee]

I'd bomb their nuclear facilities tommorrow if it were up to me.

what gives you the right?

How does that NOT make you a terrorist?

That statement makes you more dangerous than Iran. That makes YOU the bad guy, not them.

And Amercians wonder why the whole world fucking hates them. And wonder why terrorists are attacking America in the first place. Its because of this pig headed arrogant attitude.

[Documad]

I'd bomb their nuclear facilities tommorrow if it were up to me.

How many other countries would you bomb tomorrow if it were up to you? India? Pakistan? North Korea? It's a long list.

[Documad]

Anyhow, the point is that she said we were at war with Iran. Rob and I know that we're not at war with Iran. Rob and I are smarter than Palin, even though I don't want Rob to be president.

[kaiser soze]

Sounds like he would love to hurt a lot of people...including drivers of Air Cars

was someone bullied when they were young :(

I have no respect for men who want war but won't join the fight

[RobMoney$]

what gives you the right?

How does that NOT make you a terrorist?

That statement makes you more dangerous than Iran. That makes YOU the bad guy, not them.

And Amercians wonder why the whole world fucking hates them. And wonder why terrorists are attacking America in the first place. Its because of this pig headed arrogant attitude.

Are you serious?

Iran's "nuclear victory," Ahmadinejad said, "is the start of the ever-increasing destruction of the imperialistic state," a typical Iranian allusion to the United States.

Diplomacy has failed.

Bombing their nuclear facilities is not bombing their women and children, it's bombing facilities that are in isolated areas. Iran has consistently defied the UN security council's instructions to halt it's Uranium enrichment program.

I'd bomb their facilities before they get the capabilities to build a nuclear bomb that's capable of reaching Israel. Israel is our biggest and frankly our only ally in the middle east. It's vital that we do everything in our power to maintain that support and to hopefully gain the support of other nations in the middle east.

[Bob]

I'd bomb their nuclear facilities tommorrow if it were up to me.

thank god it's not

[kaiser soze]

So the U.S. should do Israel's dirty work, using our resources, our men, our money? Isn't that like spreading the wealth?

It's funny how people like you want everyone else to be responsible for themselves but think it is ok to fight other people's conflicts.

[pshabi]

Palin is a stupider, female version of Dan Quayle!!!!

[mikizee]

Are you serious?



Diplomacy has failed.

Bombing their nuclear facilities is not bombing their women and children, it's bombing facilities that are in isolated areas. Iran has consistently defied the UN security council's instructions to halt it's Uranium enrichment program.

I'd bomb their facilities before they get the capabilities to build a nuclear bomb that's capable of reaching Israel. Israel is our biggest and frankly our only ally in the middle east. It's vital that we do everything in our power to maintain that support and to hopefully gain the support of other nations in the middle east.

Kinda hard to gain support from other nations in the middle east when you keep on bombing countries.

[RobMoney$]

So the U.S. should do Israel's dirty work, using our resources, our men, our money? Isn't that like spreading the wealth?

It's funny how people like you want everyone else to be responsible for themselves but think it is ok to fight other people's conflicts.


Establishing the US as a country middle eastern countries will want to alaign themelves with begins with supporting Israel.
Abandon Israel and you show every country in the middle east a reason not to alaign themselves with us. It will make us look like a country who can't be trusted when needed. Israel needs our support.

It's fairly simple. Supporting Israel is in our own best intrest. So yes, we'll be using our money and resources to not only support the only country in that region who's on our side, but to help garner support with other countries in the area.
Something that will benefit our entire country, not just the people making less than 75k a year.

[RobMoney$]

Kinda hard to gain support from other nations in the middle east when you keep on bombing countries.

Do you think it's a good idea for every country to have nuclear weapons?

[mikizee]

No, but there is no proof Iran has nuclear weapons.

Plus, exactly how many WMDs does USA have?

Fucking stacks.

USA: you cant have weapons!

other country: but you do!

USA: thats besides the point!

[kaiser soze]

Establishing the US as a country middle eastern countries will want to alaign themelves with begins with supporting Israel.
Abandon Israel and you show every country in the middle east a reason not to alaign themselves with us.

Well, It appears to have done the opposite

I don't think the poorly handled oil for food program helped win hearts either, or the Iran/Iraq debacle, or the support of the Taliban, and surprisingly enough our support of Saudi Arabia has soured our position (including being kicked out of Saudi Arabia a couple years after 9/11)

The U.S. needs to step back for a moment and align itself before approaching the middle east. It is much more complex than our leaders have treated it and in the long run it has created a hell of a mess for us to work our way out of.

The middle east is unbelievably wealthy, influential, and powerful as of late. They are no longer pawns of the petrol explosion.

I don't understand how people think the Middle East is as simple as bombing people into submission. Iraq and Afghanistan has already proven otherwise.

Please remember - one of Osama Bin Laden's goals was to bankrupt the United States and these wars are pushing us closer to that goal.

[RobMoney$]

Mikeezzz, I like you man,

but that post is showing how naive you are about this topic.

[RobMoney$]

I have no respect for men who want war but won't join the fight

Let me know the next time the US fights a war where it's actually defending itself against tyranny and not just defending Bush and his friends' oil interests and I'll consider joining the fight.

[RobMoney$]

The U.S. needs to step back for a moment and align itself before approaching the middle east. It is much more complex than our leaders have treated it and in the long run it has created a hell of a mess for us to work our way out of.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by "step back for a moment", but if that in any way involves turning our back on Israel then what you're doing is inviting the potential for another 9-11.
Another tragedy like that and it will most definitely affect our economy.

[Bob]

Establishing the US as a country middle eastern countries will want to alaign themelves with begins with supporting Israel.

granted, i'm not an expert on this, but don't most middle eastern countries...er...not like israel all that much? isn't our support of israel one of the (many) things that the middle east doesn't like about us?

i'm not saying we should turn our back on them for that reason (i'm really not saying that much about our relationship with israel because honestly i don't know a ton about it) but i was under the impression that they generally weren't very popular with their neighbors

[pshabi]

Do you think it's a good idea for every country to have nuclear weapons?

They pray 4 times a day, they pray 5.
Whose ways is strange when it's time to survive?

Some will go of they own free will to die.
Others take you with them when they blow sky high.

What's the difference?
All you get is lost children while the bosses sit up behind their desks

It costs billions to blast humans in half...into calves and arms.
Only one side is aloud to have bombs.

It's like making a soldier drop his weapon, shooting him, and telling him to "get to steppin."

Obviously, they came to portion up his fortune.
Sounds to me like that old robbery extortion!

Same game...you can't reform 'em.

Just sayin'. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC4HCjJXlEU) I'm stoned.:cool:

[jennyb]

... I wish I was stoned

I just did my last run through of my sample ballot omg tomorrow I'm excited

[RobMoney$]

i'm not saying we should turn our back on them for that reason (i'm really not saying that much about our relationship with israel because honestly i don't know a ton about it) but i was under the impression that they generally weren't very popular with their neighbors

Yes, we're fighting an uphill battle.
The rest of the middle east doesn't get along with Israel for the same reason most wars have essentially been strated throughout history, because they believe their God, or in this case Muhammad, is stronger than the Jews' God. They believe the Jews are unjustly inhabiting Israel and that holy land rightfully belongs to the Islamic people, not Jewish people.
Basically, it's because yet another culture hates the Jews.

We need to show these countries that America defends it's allies and we are the strongest, yet most freedom-loving country on the planet and you should become our ally too.
Or we can turn our backs on Israel and show Israel's enemies and our own how we abandon our friends in their time of need and why they wouldn't want to become protected under the freedom of the American flag.

Like I said, they're our one and only friend in that area, the most unstable part of the world. Our alliance with Israel is paramount.

[roosta]

the hatred might also have to do with the brutal oppression of the Palestinian people by a far stronger country, but i could be reaching.

[100% ILL]

Let me know the next time the US fights a war where it's actually defending itself against tyranny and not just defending Bush and his friends' oil interests and I'll consider joining the fight.

So a war against radical Islam doesn't count? :confused: Islamic extremists have been trying to dominate the world since the Crusades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade

Besides the man who gives the order leads the charge.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyUX6wV1lBQ&feature=related

[kaiser soze]

One would think that Pakistan would be a bigger concern right now, seeing that they already have nuclear weapons.

[D_Raay]

Yes, we're fighting an uphill battle.
The rest of the middle east doesn't get along with Israel for the same reason most wars have essentially been strated throughout history, because they believe their God, or in this case Muhammad, is stronger than the Jews' God. They believe the Jews are unjustly inhabiting Israel and that holy land rightfully belongs to the Islamic people, not Jewish people.
Basically, it's because yet another culture hates the Jews.

We need to show these countries that America defends it's allies and we are the strongest, yet most freedom-loving country on the planet and you should become our ally too.
Or we can turn our backs on Israel and show Israel's enemies and our own how we abandon our friends in their time of need and why they wouldn't want to become protected under the freedom of the American flag.

Like I said, they're our one and only friend in that area, the most unstable part of the world. Our alliance with Israel is paramount.

I'm so tired of hearing all this "freedom" talk, and who is "stronger" , and who is "evil". You know what "evil" is? Willfully and deliberately killing children. Something Israel and the US have done multiple times. Do you suppose we react any differently to someone killing our children?

You can't love freedom more than another person just because you are American. It's an abstract thing. We don't own it. Everyone has the right to freedom.

This country needs to pull it's apathetic, self absorbed head out of it's ass and at least pretend that killing in the name of freedom or ideology is an outrage. Our moral high ground is built from a pile of dead bodies.

[100% ILL]

Islamic extremists train thier children to hate and do violence. It's good propoganda, this way if a child gets killed trying to shoot a soldier with an AK-47, the soldier looks like a heartless killer. It's an old tactic been used before. The Nazis and the Japanese come to mind.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odvRlLZrlJ4

[QueenAdrock]

she makes bush look like obama in terms of eloquence/competence

seriously, mccain picked that. he picked that to be his running mate, he picked that to be president in case something happens to him, he trusts that with the fate of the country. the ratings boost that he got when he surprised everyone by picking her had to be nice, but damn, did he not realize that he was stuck with her if he won, and that fact might make people not want him to win?

But McCain keeps saying Country First! Surely he'd pick a running mate that he thought was best for the country and not his campaign, right? :rolleyes:

[QueenAdrock]

Like I said, they're our one and only friend in that area, the most unstable part of the world. Our alliance with Israel is paramount.

I suggest you look into the USS Liberty controversy. I hate all of the Israel talking points that people spew out, because honestly, that's one thing I disagree with all of the candidates on. Israel has done some pretty horrendous shit in the past, and I can't condone being allies with them because of it. I can't condone being allies with Palestine, either. But it seems kind of funny that we can pick and choose who we're "friends" with, regardless of the fact that they've done equally as fucked up shit as one another.

[Dorothy Wood]

Israel needs to be a Jewish state because it is a precondition to the second-coming. that's why christian conservatives/fundamentalists are so gung ho about supporting it.

there are a lot of fake reasons out there floating around, but that is the real reason the whole support-israel thing started.

[saz]

once again, rob needs a reality check:

not only can america not afford another war, but iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003 due to international pressure. i take it you missed the news of the last national intelligence estimate (http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf)?

We judge with high confidence that in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program; we also assess with moderate-to-high confidence that Tehran at a minimum is keeping open the option to develop nuclear weapons. We judge with high confidence that the halt, and Tehran’s announcement of its decision to suspend its declared uranium enrichment program and sign an Additional Protocol to its Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Safeguards Agreement, was directed primarily in response to increasing international scrutiny and pressure resulting from exposure of Iran’s previously undeclared nuclear work.


ABC News' Martha Raddatz, Jonathan Karl, Luis Martinez, Kirit Radia and Jennifer Duck Report: In a stunning reversal of Bush administration conventional wisdom, a new assessment by U.S. intelligence agencies concludes Iran shelved its nuclear weapons program over four years ago.

"We judge with high confidence that in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program," reads a declassified version of the National Intelligence Estimate key findings.

link (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/nie-report-iran.html)


iran isn't a threat. pakistan has had nuclear weapons for years, but i don't see you nor the right-wing ideologues going ape shit over them; even though that's where osama bin laden and al qaeda are now based, with political instability being the norm there for quite some time. do you honestly believe that iran now being the most dominant power in the region, that they would risk being wiped off the face of the planet? i don't think so. ditto north korea. ahmadinejad isn't a peacenik, but he doesn't want to bring about a nuclear holocaust either. he and others may spew anti-american and anti-israeli rhetoric, but they're not about to risk being wiped off the planet forever. quite frankly, i find ahmadinejad's rhetoric just as stupid and frightening as republican warmongering rhetoric. and yes rob, iran halted its nuclear program. sorry, but that's according to the last national intelligence estimate. i know that ignorant, extremist republicans don't like facts (ie no wmds in iraq, no connection between saddam and al qaeda), but would rather just shoot first, ask questions later, and reek havoc with very stupid and insane wars. iran doesn't even begin to compare with the threat posed by the soviet union during the cold war. seriously, enough of the regurgitation of bullshit republican fox news talking points. you would think that the republican christian hillbillies would realize this with the colossal disaster that was the iraq war and occupation. but they really are that stupid.

oh, and the us military is stretched beyond all belief and has hit a breaking point. post-traumatic stress and suicide rates are skyrocketing, the national guard is royally screwed, with the military occupying two middle eastern nations. so no, america can't afford a third war. unless of course you want to run the american military into the ground. but then again, republicans like running things into the ground, just like they did with the country over the last eight years.

[Randetica]

she makes bush look like obama in terms of eloquence/competence



haha yeah i thought the same

[Bob]

Yes, we're fighting an uphill battle.

it seems like more of a wall than a hill

[mikizee]

I'm so tired of hearing all this "freedom" talk, and who is "stronger" , and who is "evil". You know what "evil" is? Willfully and deliberately killing children. Something Israel and the US have done multiple times. Do you suppose we react any differently to someone killing our children?

You can't love freedom more than another person just because you are American. It's an abstract thing. We don't own it. Everyone has the right to freedom.

This country needs to pull it's apathetic, self absorbed head out of it's ass and at least pretend that killing in the name of freedom or ideology is an outrage. Our moral high ground is built from a pile of dead bodies.

YES

once again, rob needs a reality check:

not only can america not afford another war, but iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003 due to international pressure. i take it you missed the news of the last national intelligence estimate (http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf)?

We judge with high confidence that in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program; we also assess with moderate-to-high confidence that Tehran at a minimum is keeping open the option to develop nuclear weapons. We judge with high confidence that the halt, and Tehran’s announcement of its decision to suspend its declared uranium enrichment program and sign an Additional Protocol to its Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Safeguards Agreement, was directed primarily in response to increasing international scrutiny and pressure resulting from exposure of Iran’s previously undeclared nuclear work.


ABC News' Martha Raddatz, Jonathan Karl, Luis Martinez, Kirit Radia and Jennifer Duck Report: In a stunning reversal of Bush administration conventional wisdom, a new assessment by U.S. intelligence agencies concludes Iran shelved its nuclear weapons program over four years ago.

"We judge with high confidence that in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program," reads a declassified version of the National Intelligence Estimate key findings.

link (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/nie-report-iran.html)


iran isn't a threat. pakistan has had nuclear weapons for years, but i don't see you nor the right-wing ideologues going ape shit over them; even though that's where osama bin laden and al qaeda are now based, with political instability being the norm there for quite some time. do you honestly believe that iran now being the most dominant power in the region, that they would risk being wiped off the face of the planet? i don't think so. ditto north korea. ahmadinejad isn't a peacenik, but he doesn't want to bring about a nuclear holocaust either. he and others may spew anti-american and anti-israeli rhetoric, but they're not about to risk being wiped off the planet forever. quite frankly, i find ahmadinejad's rhetoric just as stupid and frightening as republican warmongering rhetoric. and yes rob, iran halted its nuclear program. sorry, but that's according to the last national intelligence estimate. i know that ignorant, extremist republicans don't like facts (ie no wmds in iraq, no connection between saddam and al qaeda), but would rather just shoot first, ask questions later, and reek havoc with very stupid and insane wars. iran doesn't even begin to compare with the threat posed by the soviet union during the cold war. seriously, enough of the regurgitation of bullshit republican fox news talking points. you would think that the republican christian hillbillies would realize this with the colossal disaster that was the iraq war and occupation. but they really are that stupid.

oh, and the us military is stretched beyond all belief and has hit a breaking point. post-traumatic stress and suicide rates are skyrocketing, the national guard is royally screwed, with the military occupying two middle eastern nations. so no, america can't afford a third war. unless of course you want to run the american military into the ground. but then again, republicans like running things into the ground, just like they did with the country over the last eight years.

YES

[Ali]

We need to show these countries that America defends it's allies and we are the strongest, yet most freedom-loving country on the planet and you should become our ally too.
Or we can turn our backs on Israel and show Israel's enemies and our own how we abandon our friends in their time of need and why they wouldn't want to become protected under the freedom of the American flag.

Like I said, they're our one and only friend in that area, the most unstable part of the world. Our alliance with Israel is paramount.Rob, I respect what you have to say and the fact that you continue to post here, despite having few allies is admirable.

But I have to disagree. The US-Israel alliance is one of the major causes of instability and unrest in the Middle East. Yes, Israel's neighbours have threatened her in the past and Israel has depended in the past on US weaponry to help defend herself, but the very obvious way in which the US helps Israel serves only to deepen the resentment felt towards her and draw the sort of aggression that left the World Trade Centre in ruins.

As for being a Middle Eastern ally of the US... I can think of: Pervez Musharraf, Saudi Royal Family, Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi of Iran, Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war... the list goes on. Plenty of examples of how having the US on your side does NOT make you popular with your neighbours and ultimately ends up getting you overthrown (sometimes by your former ally, as was the case with poor old Saddam).

If the US stops supporting Israel, she will not immediately be swamped by her neighbours. She may have to give back some land and allow access to parts of Jerusalem, but she will not be destroyed and if she is threatened, then she will have to ask the UN for help. She will also have to sign and abide by the NPT, something Iran has done. The main groups who will suffer if the US stops supplying arms to Israel are the Militant Islamic groups, as one of their main causes célèbres will be removed.

The US (and everybody else with power) should think twice before unilaterally deciding to interfere in the internal affairs of a foreign state, or to support a country which is illegally occupying the territory of a neighbouring state.

The US (and NATO) should take a long, hard look at the Russian involvement in Afghanistan in the 80's and learn a thing or two... not least of which is that the Russians left Afghanistan thanks to the fact that the US was supplying the weapons. I wonder who's supplying them now...

[mikizee]

Rob, I respect what you have to say and the fact that you continue to post here, despite having few allies is admirable.

But I have to disagree. The US-Israel alliance is one of the major causes of instability and unrest in the Middle East. Yes, Israel's neighbours have threatened her in the past and Israel has depended in the past on US weaponry to help defend herself, but the very obvious way in which the US helps Israel serves only to deepen the resentment felt towards her and draw the sort of aggression that left the World Trade Centre in ruins.

As for being a Middle Eastern ally of the US... I can think of: Pervez Musharraf, Saudi Royal Family, Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi of Iran, Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war... the list goes on. Plenty of examples of how having the US on your side does NOT make you popular with your neighbours and ultimately ends up getting you overthrown (sometimes by your former ally, as was the case with poor old Saddam).

If the US stops supporting Israel, she will not immediately be swamped by her neighbours. She may have to give back some land and allow access to parts of Jerusalem, but she will not be destroyed and if she is threatened, then she will have to ask the UN for help. She will also have to sign and abide by the NPT, something Iran has done. The main groups who will suffer if the US stops supplying arms to Israel are the Militant Islamic groups, as one of their main causes célèbres will be removed.

The US (and everybody else with power) should think twice before unilaterally deciding to interfere in the internal affairs of a foreign state, or to support a country which is illegally occupying the territory of a neighbouring state.

The US (and NATO) should take a long, hard look at the Russian involvement in Afghanistan in the 80's and learn a thing or two... not least of which is that the Russians left Afghanistan thanks to the fact that the US was supplying the weapons. I wonder who's supplying them now...

YES