LOST Season 5 Offical Thread.

[checkyourprez]

Didn't see a lost thread for the new season so here we go...


Those first two hours left a lot to be digested. It didn't help I watched them over a couple days. The going back and forth in time leaves it hard to get a proper time line in your mind, at least with me anyways.

Couple things quick..

Kate still bothers the fucking shit out of me, I think I can say I hate her. If she wasn't so hot someone would have put her in her place by now.

Who are the english men at the end?

Why did Hugo get arrested when A.L. told him not to?

I know I've seen that lady at the end before, but whats her deal?

Is Sun really on the dark side?

My big question is, when the people are back in time, where is their "back in time self". Like Sawyer and everyone, are they on the island and doing whatever they were doing in their real lifes 3 years before? Or do they disappear from there and just appear on the island? Anyone get what im saying?

[Bob]

this new season is extremely, extremely silly, but i've been watching too long to stop watching now so i'm going to continue


Why did Hugo get arrested when A.L. told him not to?

sayid said something like "whatever ben tells you to do, do the opposite", i assumed that was it

I know I've seen that lady at the end before, but whats her deal?

i don't even remember where i've seen her, it was kind of annoying. it's like, they hide her face for a few minutes, and then it's this big reveal but oops, i still don't know who she is. where was she from?

lost is a very silly show but i can't quit it

[checkyourprez]

this new season is extremely, extremely silly, but i've been watching too long to stop watching now so i'm going to continue



sayid said something like "whatever ben tells you to do, do the opposite", i assumed that was it



i don't even remember where i've seen her, it was kind of annoying. it's like, they hide her face for a few minutes, and then it's this big reveal but oops, i still don't know who she is. where was she from?

lost is a very silly show but i can't quit it

i would agree, but i still enjoy it. the topic of the show is entertaining. but as long as it all ties in somehow, which it is supposed to, than i must keep watching. too much time invested to stop now.

[Adam]

I've kinda fallen out with Lost to.

So you guys know, its not on until Sunday (25th) I think in the UK so you may give out spoilers early to those who ain't downloaded it*

*which is what I did. Yes, I was still intrigued to see it. Basically I just want it to end so the hype ends and the no doubt stupid conclusion is revealed.

So who do we think shot JR?

[Bob]

So who do we think shot JR?

nobody, he imploded in a time paradox because he violated the rules of time travel (but not one of the rules that you're allowed to violate)

[mathcart]

So you guys know, its not on until Sunday (25th) I think in the UK so you may give out spoilers early to those who ain't downloaded it*

*which is what I did. Yes, I was still intrigued to see it. Basically I just want it to end so the hype ends and the no doubt stupid conclusion is revealed.



Yeah I wasn't sure about this so I layed low for a bit to see what would happen - although I was seconds away from pulling up our old thread.

Junker- where u at brother? You seen this yet?

So for the record I LOVED the premiere! I loved that LOST is back in my life, I loved that it was a 2 hr nugget of goodness, and I loved the crazy shit thats happening. Lets investigate some of the if's shall we-
BUT before we procede-

**************BEWARE SPOILERS AHEAD*************



Those first two hours left a lot to be digested.

Couple things quick..

Kate still bothers the fucking shit out of me, I think I can say I hate her. If she wasn't so hot someone would have put her in her place by now.

HOW DARE YOU!?!




Who are the english men at the end?

Don't remember what your talking about- Widdemore? I've gotta go rewatch this today.


Why did Hugo get arrested when A.L. told him not to?

Besides the Sayid advice, I think Hugo was just having one of those days man! He was fed up with lying. Hurly never really has an agenda (unlike EVERYONE else), so his actions are a lit more "pure"- i.e survival based. Seems to me.
:)


I know I've seen that lady at the end before, but whats her deal?

YES YOU HAVE!
Where have you seen her?
She is the woman who Desmond tried to buy the ring (necklace?) for Penny from but she wouldn't let him- because he was doing it wrong- when he was unstuck in time!
Now who is she?
She's Daniel Faraday's MOTHER! (Jeremy Davies character!)
Very exciting to have Faraday be a key componet of this season- hes a real favorite!
(y)



Is Sun really on the dark side?

C'mon! Cut a girl some slack- she's just grieving/ slash raising a child without his daddy. She'll come around.
:(



My big question is, when the people are back in time, where is their "back in time self". Like Sawyer and everyone, are they on the island and doing whatever they were doing in their real lifes 3 years before? Or do they disappear from there and just appear on the island? Anyone get what im saying?

Not really? are you asking if the gang is suddenly back in time before their camp on the same beach BUT are they also at the same place in a different time?
This is a very good question but ultimately I think it is much deeper than where the show will go.
The nature of space time as it relates to time travel to advance the plot to create an interesting story (and most excitingly!) finally give us a fun (non telling) way for us to discover the truth of the Dharma Initiative is not only awesome but fair game evidently for the writers.
The nature (and physics) of space time as it relates to time travel in regards to time paradoxes- not so much. Their not going to go here and frankly can't possibly expect the bulk of their audience to get PhD's in Astrophysics so....
my advice is to just roll with it! (And enjoy the LOST season 5 ride!)

*As for my opinion on your actual question- NO, you can only exist in one place at one time- they are just moving through time in a non-linear fashion. Otherwise why wouldn't John of been dead when Ethan was about to murder him in the past but when he immediately jumps to the future he is not. If he would of also been in the past at the same moment he jumps to the future Ethan clearly would of succeded in murdering him and he could no longer be in the future- since he would not exist. Maybe they did actually answer your question!


So many great things to come- very exciting show I'd say!
I have to rewatch it since its been a few days but the most exciting thing I got out of it was that there is some cabul of people of the Island that Ben is taking orders from/ soliciting sage advice from- either way- AWESOME!
Very exciting times!
(y)

[beastieangel01]

Very exciting to have Faraday be a key component of this season- hes a real favorite!


YES, agreed. He is my favorite 'new' character.

[ToucanSpam]

The first two episodes were great. Daniel Faraday is the best 'new' character. Definitely a good start to a phenomenal show.

[BBboy20]

I was given the impression that old lady was a manifestation of the Universe (episode showing what happened after Desmond keyed the switch) but I guess not.

[mathcart]

I was given the impression that old lady was a manifestation of the Universe (episode showing what happened after Desmond keyed the switch) but I guess not.

She is a manifestation of the LOST universe- but she is also Farraday's mother- as all but pointed out by the end of the premiere episode.
We're BOTH right! (yay!)
(y)

[Lyman Zerga]

i wanna read this thread so badly bad but im not allowed to

[roosta]

the time travelling stuff is fun, and will help them explain loads...but..its got a bent logic..."desmond is special" etc. etc. ..just so they can get away with stuff

the worst was the boat time traveling with them, despite nothing else being transported.

anyways, twas a good episode...

[abcdefz]

this new season is extremely, extremely silly, but i've been watching too long to stop watching now so i'm going to continue






I've been
Loving yooooooou
Too looooooooong
Can't stop nooooooow...



I dunno. I got two discs into that new set that just came out (season four?) and I'm done. I guess I haven't totally lost interest, since I'm
checking out this thread, but at this point I'll probably just check Wikipedia when all is said and done and see if it's worth slogging through.
Too much is going on now with characters I don't give a shit about -- which is most of them.

[BBboy20]

the worst was the boat time traveling with them, despite nothing else being transported.And you don't question why they still have their clothes on? Perhaps it is to be assumed that anything that lay in contact with for any time traveler comes along with them.

[roosta]

And you don't question why they still have their clothes on? Perhaps it is to be assumed that anything that lay in contact with for any time traveler comes along with them.

ah, i don't mind clothes...theyre not plot devices. the boat clearly is needed later.

this is a good article on the introduction of the time-travel device.. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/garethmcleanblog/2009/jan/26/lost-doctor-who-time-travel)

[BBboy20]

...the Island has it's own rules on the time-space continuum?

[beastieangel01]

so I am reading up on my lostpedia.

SPOILER FOR THE NEWEST EPISODE THAT JUST AIRED 1/28/09****

wonder if the bomb has anything to do with the magnetic field on the island? I want to look that up actually. wonder if there will be notes on that on lostpedia.

[checkyourprez]

that was a big ep. ill wait till sunday or whatever to talk about it.

[mathcart]

:eek:

[mathcart]

^^^^^^^^

****literally speechless from the amazing, shocking awesome episode last night!*******

will wait for more discussion when people have caught up, but holy crap that was awesome!
(y)

[mathcart]

YES YOU HAVE!
Where have you seen her?
A She is the woman who Desmond tried to buy the ring (necklace?) for Penny from but she wouldn't let him- because he was doing it wrong- when he was unstuck in time!
Now who is she?
B She's Daniel Faraday's MOTHER! (Jeremy Davies character!)

(y)


Whoops!
I was sooooo wrong! A is true but B is false! Sorry I got a little too excited and went off all half cocked.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing...
:o

[A. Chimendez]

I fucking hate Sawyer. He's a moron.

[Otis Driftwood]

I love Sawyer. I mean, who else sprouts stuff like "New Otherton" or calls people traipsing through the jungle Ponce de Leon! :D

Anyway, this sums up most of my impressions from the Jughead episode, except for maybe #3. Could as wella been Joseph on the Black Rock.

[Lyman Zerga]

sawyer loves you too, i just know it

[checkyourprez]

Whoops!
I was sooooo wrong! A is true but B is false! Sorry I got a little too excited and went off all half cocked.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing...
:o

shes not? than who in the f is she.


I fucking hate Sawyer. He's a moron.

really? i think hes the shit. way better than jack. jack is such a pretentious d-bag. he is the male version of kate. both annoying beyond belief.

[Lyman Zerga]

really? i think hes the shit. way better than jack. jack is such a pretentious d-bag. he is the male version of kate. both annoying beyond belief.

absolutely.

[mathcart]

shes not? than who in the f is she.


INDEED!!!!!!!!!!!
(with apologies to Omar Little)


SPOILER TIME
So I was watching the "enhanced" version of the premiere (aka pop up LOST) and the gave her a name- I don't Lostepedia so it didn't mean anything to me other than to confirm that shes NOT Faraday's mother (totally different name) BUT
She is actively doing series computations (to track down the Island- or some nefarious purpose?????) and is crazy all-seeing all knowing as the Desmond episode shows and perhaps most interestingly SHE is so all knowing that muthaflippin' BEN is soliciting advice on what to do and what will happen in the future!!!!!!!

Let me repeat that.....

BEN TAKES ORDERS FROM HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides the greatest character showing up on the Island stomach punch of awesomeness that also happened, this was the most incredible revelation to date.

Not to fucking mention the UNPRESIDENTED amount of answers we just got!

Richard goes to see John be Born because HE TOLD HIM to do it! Same with that weird compass scene.

The hatch is built to save the island from a dangerously unstable US test H-bomb- THANK YOU very much Daniel Faraday! (Although Sayid did tell us that was why it was there way back in S2)

and their really fucking teasing us by threatening to finally give the god-damn back story of the Dharma Initiative!

Now if only someone would FINALLY explain the g-d 4toed statue I could rest easy knowing all is right in the (LOST) universe!

:)


PS Now that I think about it- 1 of the main reasons why I thought I goofed about her being Faradays mum was that she was in LA not Oxford- but that scene w/ Desmond going into Widmore's office (world class stupid move that deserves its on post/rant) he finds out that she is in LA. So I think I'm back on thinking that she is Faraday's mother!

Sheee-eeeet! (apologies to Clay Davis)
:confused:

[Bob]

The hatch is built to save the island from a dangerously unstable US test H-bomb- THANK YOU very much Daniel Faraday! (Although Sayid did tell us that was why it was there way back in S2)

wait, how do we know that that's the reason the hatch exists (i can't recall the thing sayid said that you're referring to)?

my own theory is that the room with the wheel that ben used is the one that's connected the bomb. so by spinning the wheel, he detonated an underground h-bomb and so that's why, you know, time travel

[checkyourprez]

i have thought about the bomb being there has something to do with all that, but pure speculation.



one of my theories is that wittmore is acutally a former ben of the island. he cleary is bout it with that island. he snapped that guys neck without hesitation to preserve the camps whereabouts. and how in present day hes trying so hard to find the island. and the bossman is the one who turns that crank. when he turns the crank it moves him off the island. and at some point wittmore as boss man moved the island, hence why hes off it, and hence why hes looking for it again. so thats my guess at that.

[mathcart]

wait, how do we know that that's the reason the hatch exists (i can't recall the thing sayid said that you're referring to)?

So here's the evidence I was using to come to that conclusion:

-There's is an enormously unstable nuclear device on LOST island circa 1954

-Faraday tells the cute underage other with a machine gun bigger than her that what they have to do is dig a very big hole, very careful put the bomb in and bury it in concrete! (and he knows that is what they have to do because in the future there has not been an atomic blast on LOST island)

-In S2 after Jack Kate and Locke discover Desmond & the Hatch after initial unpleasantness is over and their investigating it they send for Sayid who finds the solid concrete bottom (or wall or something) of the Hatch and says that the last time he saw concrete that thickly poured over anything was... wait for it... Chernobyl!

-Every (I don't even remember what it was anymore) 88 min's (?) those in the Hatch had to punch in the code to avert the end of the world, or so we are lead to believe. But couldn't it just be the end of their world if there is just essentially a nuclear reactor that NEEDS to be periodically vented to prevent a meltdown. They are on an Island with very little chance of evacuation or outside help (thanks John Locke for that).

Also Lost Island seems to have magical powers, and while I'm not all that enthused about it (secretly I really am- stupid wonderful magic!), perhaps there are parts of the Island that are more magical than others so that maybe the nuclear reaction combined with the MFI (magical fuckin' island) has alternately bad and good effects.

(lb)

my own theory is that the room with the wheel that ben used is the one that's connected the bomb. so by spinning the wheel, he detonated an underground h-bomb and so that's why, you know, time travel

Yes Bob time travel may well be one of these effects. Stupid fucking magic! I guess I believe in it too
:mad:

[mathcart]

one of my theories is that wittmore is acutally a former ben of the island. he cleary is bout it with that island. he snapped that guys neck without hesitation to preserve the camps whereabouts. and how in present day hes trying so hard to find the island. and the bossman is the one who turns that crank. when he turns the crank it moves him off the island. and at some point wittmore as boss man moved the island, hence why hes off it, and hence why hes looking for it again. so thats my guess at that.

Richard is, was and more than likely will be the HOIC
Its his island no matter what anyone else thinks. Although he seemingly did step down for both Ben and Locke so...
maybe man!
:confused:

[roosta]

that was one of the best episodes in ages

[mathcart]

Now that I think about it- 1 of the main reasons why I thought I goofed about her being Faradays mum was that she was in LA not Oxford- but that scene w/ Desmond going into Widmore's office (world class stupid move that deserves its on post/rant) he finds out that she is in LA. So I think I'm back on thinking that she is Faraday's mother!


OK bitches, check this shit out! I was totally flippin' right.
Now prepare to have your minds blown!

So I was at a big loud party last nite and to deal I go be all nerdy with a rotating cast of friends talking LOST. So one of my friends had checked out Lostepedia or a lost chat room or some shit like that. Now I'm so NOT usually down with that stuff- I get my LOST fix from LOST. period. But he came across a theory that's too damn good not to share!

So Not only is the old white haired lady doing crazy calculations and telling Ben what to do TOTALLY Faraday's mother (for every reason speculated about before)

But she is also (*dramatic pause*)

THE YOUNG GIRL WITH THE SUB-MACHINE GUN!!!!!!!
the one who Faraday says to her as she walks him to the A-bomb "you look familiar" (or something sort of cheating like that). I was blown away by that- thought I'd go share with y'all before I go to a boring superbowl party (the game will be boring- prop not party)

Really looking forward to Wednesday now!
(y)

[checkyourprez]

OK bitches, check this shit out! I was totally flippin' right.
Now prepare to have your minds blown!

So I was at a big loud party last nite and to deal I go be all nerdy with a rotating cast of friends talking LOST. So one of my friends had checked out Lostepedia or a lost chat room or some shit like that. Now I'm so NOT usually down with that stuff- I get my LOST fix from LOST. period. But he came across a theory that's too damn good not to share!

So Not only is the old white haired lady doing crazy calculations and telling Ben what to do TOTALLY Faraday's mother (for every reason speculated about before)

But she is also (*dramatic pause*)

THE YOUNG GIRL WITH THE SUB-MACHINE GUN!!!!!!!
the one who Faraday says to her as she walks him to the A-bomb "you look familiar" (or something sort of cheating like that). I was blown away by that- thought I'd go share with y'all before I go to a boring superbowl party (the game will be boring- prop not party)

Really looking forward to Wednesday now!
(y)

sounds quite plausible. i wonder why ben would take orders from her???

[checkyourprez]

WoW. how has it been an hour and no one posted on this already.

that episode was AWSOME, and i only saw the second half of it.



*********************MAJOR SPOILER ALERTS*******************














************************************************** ********









**********************MAJOR*********************** *****

















************************************************** ********************













I FUCKING KNEW JIN WASNT DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I called that shit the instant that thing blew up.


AND than Jin getting saved by of all people russoe and the other frenchies. THAT IS FUCKING NUTTS.


also ben going after andrew. seems about right.


anything from the first half of the show that was good that i missed hit me up. ill probably just watch it online or the replay saturday.

[ToucanSpam]

I dunno who Andrew is but i know I wasn't shocked when Bed tried to kidnap Aaron.

Jin being alive is awesome.

[checkyourprez]

I dunno who Andrew is but i know I wasn't shocked when Bed tried to kidnap Aaron.

Jin being alive is awesome.

hah ya ya arron, that wee little bastard.

[BBboy20]

Jin being alive is awesome.I knew he was, just didn't think about him ending up in that time warp.

[BBboy20]

hah ya ya arron, that wee little bastard.You mean "The Little Prince"....*tonight's episode*

[checkyourprez]

I knew he was, just didn't think about him ending up in that time warp.

true. i didn't even think twice about it. however i would bring that up as one of my lost theories to a lot of my friends who watch lost and they didn't even consider the possibility that he was alive. they would just say he died in the boat explosion. this show is way to intertwined to just have one of its most likable characters killed that way and just end like that.

[BBboy20]

Well...anybody could have simply seen the promotions before the season started to indicate that he was alive.

And they seem to be facing the dilemma Desmon faced before...though, something tells me that, for them, they have to reconnect with their original time line.

[mathcart]

Well...anybody could have simply seen the promotions before the season started to indicate that he was alive.

Yeah- plus, hate to say it, but... it was obvious! I even called it 30 seconds before Rousseau's raft found him! Yes I know, I'm awesome.
:rolleyes:

Seriously though- I was sure they would play with this (Jin being alive) since he was thrown off the boat that exploded AND was in the "blast radius" when the island was moved. I didn't think he was moving through time with them- but I guess why not right? Sort of begs the question- why the hell are they all moving through time but no one else is (Dharma people, others, other survivors who we never see). Also inanimate objects seem to be moving through time and space as well- Lockes compass, the stolen boat (what!:confused:) but most stuff is unaffected. I'm fine going by whatever version of silly rules there playing with- but that doesn't mean it won't bother me a little.


And they seem to be facing the dilemma Desmon faced before...though, something tells me that, for them, they have to reconnect with their original time line.

Mapping out the future wouldn't you say. They will all need constants and there are six of them on (Locke, Sawyer, Darius, Charlotte, Juliette, Daniel) and six off them off- I'd say that could come into play! Also means Desmond has to go back to be Daniels constant. Exciting stuff all in all.

Have to say I was a little disappointed with this episode. Look, you WOW me 2 weeks in a row and my expectations will be sky high! I guess Jin's return was cool.
I'm so jaded.
:p

[Bob]

i can't remember if i'm remembering this correctly, but when they flashed on the canoe and ended up in the rainstorm, did it also suddenly start raining in the present (with jack and kate etc)? if so, what's that about

[beastieangel01]

i can't remember if i'm remembering this correctly, but when they flashed on the canoe and ended up in the rainstorm, did it also suddenly start raining in the present (with jack and kate etc)? if so, what's that about

yeah the camera showed lots of weird, ominous dark clouds rolling in in LA and then it started raining around right with the canoe/rainstorm scene.

[checkyourprez]

i can't remember if i'm remembering this correctly, but when they flashed on the canoe and ended up in the rainstorm, did it also suddenly start raining in the present (with jack and kate etc)? if so, what's that about

yeah the camera showed lots of weird, ominous dark clouds rolling in in LA and then it started raining around right with the canoe/rainstorm scene.

so they are back in the present?

[checkyourprez]

Yeah- plus, hate to say it, but... it was obvious! I even called it 30 seconds before Rousseau's raft found him! Yes I know, I'm awesome.
:rolleyes:

Seriously though- I was sure they would play with this (Jin being alive) since he was thrown off the boat that exploded AND was in the "blast radius" when the island was moved. I didn't think he was moving through time with them- but I guess why not right? Sort of begs the question- why the hell are they all moving through time but no one else is (Dharma people, others, other survivors who we never see). Also inanimate objects seem to be moving through time and space as well- Lockes compass, the stolen boat (what!:confused:) but most stuff is unaffected. I'm fine going by whatever version of silly rules there playing with- but that doesn't mean it won't bother me a little.




Mapping out the future wouldn't you say. They will all need constants and there are six of them on (Locke, Sawyer, Darius, Charlotte, Juliette, Daniel) and six off them off- I'd say that could come into play! Also means Desmond has to go back to be Daniels constant. Exciting stuff all in all.

Have to say I was a little disappointed with this episode. Look, you WOW me 2 weeks in a row and my expectations will be sky high! I guess Jin's return was cool.
I'm so jaded.
:p

explain yourself woman.

[HAL 9000]

So here is a question – where did the compass come from?

If Locke got it from Richard in 2004ish and Richard got it from Locke in 1954, then where and when did it originate? It seems to be stuck in a kind of time loop with no beginning or end – an information paradox…..

Shame it is not a watch though, the watch requires a watchmaker afterall.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy

[beastieangel01]

so they are back in the present?

that's a good question... seems like that might be the case.

It is something that certainly stood out (raining in both places).

[HAL 9000]

so they are back in the present?

I think the canoe rainstorm scene is the same timeframe as Rousseau's scene ie 1988. Also, I doubt the island is in the Los Angelas area - must be a different storm, hard to imagine that their is much correlation as the LA storm takes place 3 years after the Oceanic 6 leave the island wheras the island storm (which takes place in 1988) occurs a few days after the 06 escape in the lives of Locke and co.

Confusing

[checkyourprez]

gotcha.

heres a theory...

the asian guy who can talk to dead people, his nose started to bleed, and they said that happens to the ones that have been on the island the longest. and the asian guy was like i've only been here a couple weeks or whatever. i think he is the son of the asian doctor from the darma project and was there earlier in his life. everything ties in on this show somehow, thats my thoughts on that.

[mathcart]

so they are back in the present?

ALWAYS trust a HAL 9000 (to answer your LOST related questions correctly!):

I think the canoe rainstorm scene is the same timeframe as Rousseau's scene ie 1988. Also, I doubt the island is in the Los Angelas area - must be a different storm, hard to imagine that their is much correlation as the LA storm takes place 3 years after the Oceanic 6 leave the island wheras the island storm (which takes place in 1988) occurs a few days after the 06 escape in the lives of Locke and co.

Confusing


explain yourself woman.

First off- I'm so a f@#!ing dude.
Second off- Constants, as in time paradox erasing, multi- time traveling anchors that root you in one time because you had some contact with them in your life prior to Island time nuttiness disease (as explained by the good Daniel Farraday last season). This what you wanted me to explain, or did you just wanna call me a little girl?


So here is a question – where did the compass come from?

If Locke got it from Richard in 2004ish and Richard got it from Locke in 1954, then where and when did it originate? It seems to be stuck in a kind of time loop with no beginning or end – an information paradox…..

[/URL]

YES! this is exactly the kind of shit I notice (and love to think about) that will never be followed up on in LOST. Thats a truly great example of a time paradox- in fact all future discussion of them should just be referred to as the Richard/Locke compass conundrum- killing your mother before your born is SO last year!
:D

[checkyourprez]

ALWAYS trust a HAL 9000 (to answer your LOST related questions correctly!):






First off- I'm so a f@#!ing dude.
Second off- Constants, as in time paradox erasing, multi- time traveling anchors that root you in one time because you had some contact with them in your life prior to Island time nuttiness disease (as explained by the good Daniel Farraday last season). This what you wanted me to explain, or did you just wanna call me a little girl?




YES! this is exactly the kind of shit I notice (and love to think about) that will never be followed up on in LOST. Thats a truly great example of a time paradox- in fact all future discussion of them should just be referred to as the Richard/Locke compass conundrum- killing your mother before your born is SO last year!
:D


no, i thought you were woman because of the jaded comment and smiley tongue face. please accept my apology.

the compass is quite the interesting puzzle.

[mathcart]

no, i thought you were woman because of the jaded comment and smiley tongue face. please accept my apology.


Hadn't looked at it truth that my writing style opens up to the world. No need to apologize as I have to now grapple with the possibility that I may be a woman stuck in a mans body. Damn you stupid unconscious truth revealed through sarcastic tongue wagging!
:p

[mathcart]

gotcha.

heres a theory...

the asian guy who can talk to dead people, his nose started to bleed, and they said that happens to the ones that have been on the island the longest. and the asian guy was like i've only been here a couple weeks or whatever. i think he is the son of the asian doctor from the darma project and was there earlier in his life. everything ties in on this show somehow, thats my thoughts on that.

Read this the first time and totally went *MEH* maybe.
But now that I think about it I just remembered that the very first scene of the season is the doctor in the dharna videos waking up on LOST island in bed with a woman and a baby! You clever mutha!
(y)

[checkyourprez]

thank you my man

[ToucanSpam]

This is how it's going to go down (but not really)


1. Sun shoots at Jack.
2. They all go back to the island.
3. Sawyer sacrifices himself for Kate.
4. Claire is dead.
5. Desmond will go back to the island, thus continue his streak of lying to Penny.
6. Ben will die.
7. Hurley will die.
8. Sayid will not die.
9. Marvin Candle is Miles Straum's father.
10. Juliet and Claire will have an 11 minute sex scene in the series finale that will be full on nudity and no music.

Daniel is the bad guy.

[Otis Driftwood]

gotcha.

heres a theory...

the asian guy who can talk to dead people, his nose started to bleed, and they said that happens to the ones that have been on the island the longest. and the asian guy was like i've only been here a couple weeks or whatever. i think he is the son of the asian doctor from the darma project and was there earlier in his life. everything ties in on this show somehow, thats my thoughts on that.

That is a nice theory actually. Some of the other posts, like Jin being alive and the french woman being Rousseau didn't really come out of left-field. Anyway, what about the time we see that asian doctor get out of bed (whose the woman he rooms with?) and refuse makeup/masquerade before he steps in front of the camera? Is he an actor yet, or a scientist?

[Adam]

I think the asian guy is actually hurley.

[Echewta]

Though ostensibly a children's book, The Little Prince makes several profound and idealistic points about life and human nature. Saint-Exupéry tells of meeting a young prince in the middle of the Sahara. The essence of the book is contained in the famous lines uttered by the fox to the Little Prince: "On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (One cannot see well except with the heart. The essential is invisible to the eyes).
The Sahara Desert covers the southern part of Tunisia. Benjamin Linus arrived in the Tunisian Sahara, wearing a DHARMA parka. He fought with two Bedouins there. ("The Shape of Things to Come")

Interleaved in the first nine chapters the narration's point of view changes from third person to first person. In the first eight days of the narrator being stranded in the desert, the Prince has been telling these stories to the narrator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Prince

The Little Prince: The French word written on the can that Locke kicked over was "besixdouze." 46610 Besixdouze is the name of an asteroid discovered in 1993 that served as a tribute to the story "The Little Prince." In the story, the 'Little Prince' character lived on an asteroid called B612. B-6-12 is pronounced "besixdouze" in French. Looks like the episode's title has a deeper meaning than meets the eye.


My French Translation of Rousseau's Crew
by Desi's Brother » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:11 am

Ok, Here is my best shot at translating what Rousseau's crew is saying...for the service of LOST lovers everywhere.

Firstly I have to say that these people are clearly NOT actually French they are American actors I'm assuming because what they were speaking was REALLY hard to understand---especially the part in the boat. Seriously are there no French people in Hawaii?

The Besixdouze is a french reference to the Asteroid that the Little Prince lived on called "B-612". I would highly recommend that people read the Little Prince since it is a classic french story and even appeared on their money before the euro. It is also like 30 pages so...

Translation:

On the Life Raft:

Basically they are swaring at each other and cursing each other.

All I can make out is:

Montand: It was not my fault Robert! blah blah.
Robert: blah blah ....Something malfunctioned....

(They are blaming each other and I think they are refering to the numbers or the signal and Robert is blaming Mantand for following the signal and crashing into the rocks...I think, like I said it makes no sense.)

Danielle: (something like---) There is something in the sea!
Robert: Who is it? Go Go

blah blah....cursing, swearing (makes NO SENSE!)

Robert: He is still breathing.

Revelation: Jin.

ON THE ISLAND:

Robert: Did you determine the source?
Mantand: Almost, yes.
Robert: Is it inhabited?

Danielle to Jin: Are you ok?

Robert: What's he saying?
Mantand: Who cares what he says...Why is he here?
Danielle: He says he was on a boat.

Robert: What boat?

Danielle: Mantand! Leave him alone, he's in shock. Do we have water to give him?
Robert: Here you go...
Danielle: Thank you Robert.

Danielle: My name is Danielle, Danielle Rousseau....

[Otis Driftwood]

" would highly recommend that people read the Little Prince..."
Come on, that book is more gay than a mustachioed unicorn rainbow penis.

[Nuzzolese]

Desmond:
Desmond's blond, british son is named Charlie, could this mean anything? Of course, original plane crash Charlie had a brother and everything, but I'm not ruling anything out.


Sun:
I don't think Sun is on the dark side. I think Widmore is controlling her and she's angry still with Kate for getting her husband killed.



Kate:
Gosh, I'm really hating Kate these days. She's so selfish! But she always was. I never liked how she would toy with Sawyer and go back and forth between him and Jack. And when Sawyer called her on it, she just got mad!

[ToucanSpam]

Kate is by far the most frustrating of all of the characters. She repeatedly does the most extreme and difficult action her situation calls for. She loves to run away from problems or make them go away with ridiculous responses like murder and explosions. She needs to just settle down with Jack and move on from this extended adolescence.

[Nuzzolese]

No, not Jack! Jack is just more trouble. She needs to settle down with Sawyer. He matches her true nature.

[Nuzzolese]

What happend to Walt? I thought he was special and everything, and wouldn't Ben want him back, as well?

[checkyourprez]

walt will be back. no doubt about it. when is the question.

[Adam]

walt will be back. no doubt about it. when is the question.

They are probably trying to find another child actor that looks the same. His balls had dropped next time we saw him after he disappeared for a bit.

Obviously to do with the time travel thing cus I think locke mentioned he looked older.

The more I watch Lost the more I think they make it up as they go along. Reminds me of the short stories we used to have to write at school.

[checkyourprez]

They are probably trying to find another child actor that looks the same. His balls had dropped next time we saw him after he disappeared for a bit.

Obviously to do with the time travel thing cus I think locke mentioned he looked older.

The more I watch Lost the more I think they make it up as they go along. Reminds me of the short stories we used to have to write at school.


i tend to think lost is for the most part already mapped out. the only thing the writers do every week is dialogue and little details. but thats just my opin.

[Echewta]

It is mapped out. They have an ending.

[LongDuckDong]

Haha! That show is crazy, guys. How 'bout it?

[checkyourprez]

It is mapped out. They have an ending.

well i know thaaaaat. but to the extent that it is mapped out is the question.

[checkyourprez]

JACOB!!!!!!!!!!!





(side note: maaaan the money i would give to punch kate square in the face)

[BBboy20]

Wait, so Sheppard Senior is also Jacob? O_o

[checkyourprez]

hah idk. thats just what i think. i dont believe there has been any concrete proof. jacks dad was in the creepy cabin that was said to have jacob in it.

[HAL 9000]

So in episode 5.....





Did you guys hear when the french guy was listening to the broadcast of the numbers? 3minutes into the episode, it is quite clearly Hurley reading them out (and sounding pissed off about it too).

This creates another paradox, Hurley won the lottery because some mental dude told him about the numbers, the mental dude found out about them because Hurley went back in time and broadcast them all over the South Pacific.

Is it possible that Hurley is the reason the numbers had to be entered into the Hatch computer too or the reason they are painted on the Hatch wall? Perhaps there is nothing magical about the numbers - it is just Hurley thinks they are significant and keeps leaving them everywhere as he travels through time.

[checkyourprez]

idk if you hit up the blogosphere for that, or you just caught it yourself.

either way great fucking find. and does pose a bag of dicks worth of questions.

[Otis Driftwood]

hah idk. thats just what i think. i dont believe there has been any concrete proof. jacks dad was in the creepy cabin that was said to have jacob in it.

OK, but this "happened" before, at the end of season 4 he was in there with Claire.

[checkyourprez]

you are correct...


i was just throwing that out there. im pretty sure he actually says he is not jacob at one point.

[Guy Incognito]

you are correct...


i was just throwing that out there. im pretty sure he actually says he is not jacob at one point.

i am positive he said "he was speaking for jacob" which is a bit ambiguous, i think

[mathcart]

So in episode 5.....





Did you guys hear when the french guy was listening to the broadcast of the numbers? 3minutes into the episode, it is quite clearly Hurley reading them out (and sounding pissed off about it too).

This creates another paradox, Hurley won the lottery because some mental dude told him about the numbers, the mental dude found out about them because Hurley went back in time and broadcast them all over the South Pacific.

Is it possible that Hurley is the reason the numbers had to be entered into the Hatch computer too or the reason they are painted on the Hatch wall? Perhaps there is nothing magical about the numbers - it is just Hurley thinks they are significant and keeps leaving them everywhere as he travels through time.


I didn't catch this and frankly don't even remember it! In my defense its been a busy week- just got back from my sister's wedding.
I will have to re-watch the cheat episode rebroadcast that runs before the new one this week (hate doing that).
They sure are enjoying the time paradox's this season, those cheeky little bastards!
:D


you are correct...


i was just throwing that out there. im pretty sure he actually says he is not jacob at one point.

i am positive he said "he was speaking for jacob" which is a bit ambiguous, i think

Yes. Stupid ambiguous LOST

[LongDuckDong]

I wish you nerds would all get LOST. Stupid retards.

-R

[Lyman Zerga]

I wish you nerds would all get LOST. Stupid retards.

-R


orly? just yesterday you told me you would bust out tears like some deep throating whore if you ever came here and only find your own username on the 'currently active users' list

you said you rather would die!

[Otis Driftwood]

Haha, don't ever change, Randy! :rolleyes:

[Nuzzolese]

last night's episode was stupid. "We're all convinced eventually" What does that mean!? No we aren't! And why is it so important to replace Jack's dad with Locke but it doesn't matter that Walt, Michael, and Aaron aren't there? Unless it's only important because it was Jack's Dad and he's Jacob or something.

[HAL 9000]

So episode 6…..


Agree that much of this was stupid – especially all that stuff about needing to have the right shoes on the body, totally whack.

Otherwise, things work out quite nicely. If we presume that when Locke turned the wheel he left the island, and the island stopped time travelling things make sense (It must have stopped time travelling for Jin to stay in one place long enough to get a job with Dharma). This leaves the sawyer party trapped on the island in the 50s or 60s with no choice but to join Dharma (explaining why Faraday was known to Charlotte and appeared in the Orchid). Three years then elapse during which the Sawyer crew get on with being Dharma people and the o6 do their thing.

After 3 years, the o6 return and join up with the Sawyer crew in pre-purge Dharma Island world (presumably the 50s or 60s) as we saw in this episode. This also puts Hurley in the right place and time to record his numbers broadcast and put the numbers in the Hatch computer.

One interesting thing is that young Ben lived on the island at this time, and therefore presumably knew that Jin, Sawyer, Juliet etc had been around at this time. Perhaps this explains how he knows so much about everyone (he met them as a child) and why he recruited Juliet specifically to join the others.

It also raises some questions about ‘Jacobs List’ all we know about the list is that Jack, Sayid. Kate and Locke are not on it because they are flawed in someway. Could it be that the list involves those members of the Sawyer crew who stayed on the island? The list being a list of people who must be protected so that they could perform some critical function in 50s Dharma land?

Also I wonder if Charlotte speaks Korean because Jin taught her.

Or maybe the above is all balls.

[checkyourprez]

i see the train of thought and i like it. i was perplexed how hugo could be have recored those numbers and the french listening to them in 88 if he hadnt already been there. so that fits in well good. makes sense into why we saw faraday in the darma suit couple eps ago. and does rightly explain the redheads said she saw him there and goes to explain why ben knows all of them.


the layering on this show is incredible.

my only question is why gin and the rest of them have no recollection of that happening. when say, the redhead and (presumably) ben does. its interesting that they seem to be stuck in a cycle of time. because for what happened in the future to have happened, they had to have already been on the island and what not in the past. but they didnt get on the island until the oceanic flight so how could they have already had an influence enough on the island if they were never there. but yet as we are seeing they had to have already been there. very paradoxical.

[HAL 9000]

i see the train of thought and i like it. i was perplexed how hugo could be have recored those numbers and the french listening to them in 88 if he hadnt already been there. so that fits in well good. makes sense into why we saw faraday in the darma suit couple eps ago. and does rightly explain the redheads said she saw him there and goes to explain why ben knows all of them.


the layering on this show is incredible.

my only question is why gin and the rest of them have no recollection of that happening. when say, the redhead and (presumably) ben does. its interesting that they seem to be stuck in a cycle of time. because for what happened in the future to have happened, they had to have already been on the island and what not in the past. but they didnt get on the island until the oceanic flight so how could they have already had an influence enough on the island if they were never there. but yet as we are seeing they had to have already been there. very paradoxical.

You need to distinguish between the island timeline and an individual’s personal timeline.

Ben and Charlotte remember the Survivors being in the Dharma days because it happened in their personal past (ie when they were children). Sawyer, Jack and the rest don’t remember it because it happens in their personal future. Even though the event or Sawyer, jack, Daniel etc working for Dharma happened at a particular point in the islands past.

They are not necessarily stuck in time though, they are just doing little open loops of time travel

The slight complication is that Locke has shown signs of ‘remembering’ events that happened in his personal future but in the islands past. So, for example, he knew (way back in series 1) where to find the crashed plane used by the drug dealers because he had witnessed the plane crashing in the islands past and in his personal future (an event shown at the start of series 5). I am guessing only Locke has this ability though!

But this is the kind of absurdity you get with time travel – I personally love the paradoxes, but you need a consistent approach to dealing with them. The writers seem to be going with Novikov as a general principle but making Desmond (and maybe others) exempt from it as a plot device (otherwise there would be no point to the story).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle

[Echewta]

http://www.ajiraairways.com/

The Lamppost Station refers to The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe where the kids need to find the lamppost to get back home.

[HAL 9000]

Otherwise, things work out quite nicely. If we presume that when Locke turned the wheel he left the island, and the island stopped time travelling things make sense (It must have stopped time travelling for Jin to stay in one place long enough to get a job with Dharma). This leaves the sawyer party trapped on the island in the 50s or 60s with no choice but to join Dharma (explaining why Faraday was known to Charlotte and appeared in the Orchid). Three years then elapse during which the Sawyer crew get on with being Dharma people and the o6 do their thing.

After 3 years, the o6 return and join up with the Sawyer crew in pre-purge Dharma Island world (presumably the 50s or 60s) as we saw in this episode. This also puts Hurley in the right place and time to record his numbers broadcast and put the numbers in the Hatch computer.

One interesting thing is that young Ben lived on the island at this time, and therefore presumably knew that Jin, Sawyer, Juliet etc had been around at this time. Perhaps this explains how he knows so much about everyone (he met them as a child) and why he recruited Juliet specifically to join the others.

It also raises some questions about ‘Jacobs List’ all we know about the list is that Jack, Sayid. Kate and Locke are not on it because they are flawed in someway. Could it be that the list involves those members of the Sawyer crew who stayed on the island? The list being a list of people who must be protected so that they could perform some critical function in 50s Dharma land?

Also I wonder if Charlotte speaks Korean because Jin taught her.

Or maybe the above is all balls.


This is turning out to look like some pretty accurate forecasting!

[Otis Driftwood]

OK, so we see the statue in the last episode. I'm curious as to how it will be destroyed. Looked certainly very egyptian, unless that was mini-skirt.
Further egytian flavored hints: Richard Alpert (RA), Horace (Horus),... However, turning the wheel will drop you somewhere west of Egypt, where a roving band of Tuareg will pick your ass up, like that... :confused:

[Nuzzolese]

Even ancient egyptians had five toes on each foot. And anyway, I thought that they saw the statue before the last flash. But there was so much going on I could have been mistaken.

[mathcart]

Even ancient egyptians had five toes on each foot. And anyway, I thought that they saw the statue before the last flash. But there was so much going on I could have been mistaken.

They did. Perhaps the single most frustrating moment of my LOST viewing history
Me:"OMG there gonna give us some frickin answers about that damn 4toed statue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
(which clearly has become my LOST island white whale)
Show *immediate flash away from story and thus greatest possible revelation ever*
Me:"LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTT!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
*hangs head dejectedly!*

On an up note I LOVED this weeks episode! It had been slippin' but they really brought it this week!
PS I hate Kate now I hope Juliet pimp slaps her.
and all the other stuff i hope happens- but mostly I want someone to smack the smug off Kate's face. I should stop writing- this is making me mad (at Kate!)
:mad:

[DandyFop]

Yeah, this week's episode was awesome. I like Sawyer becoming more of a leader...I think. Who the fuck knows. It's so ridiculous, but I love it. I can't even begin to imagine now all the connections of who is who's parents or sisters or yada yada.

[checkyourprez]

^maybe its sawyer all along who is the special one. prob not but who knows.

[Nuzzolese]

Juliet looked so dopey cooking dinner. I was never a huge fan of her and her headache commercial way of talking and being concerned about everything. Kate is more exciting, I love to hate her, but I hate how she treats men. Do you remember that old boyfriend she got killed when he helped her dig up that toy airplane - I can't even remember what that was all about.

It seems that the writers are not forgetting anything, even though they're not answering everything, which is promising. It's like, they knew audiences were getting frustrated so they threw us that bone of a vision of the statue just to say "hey we didn't forget about that, we'll get to that later" and also hopefully they'll get to the Tunisian desert location and the appearances of dead people in the jungle and mysterious horses as well.

[roosta]

the sawyer / kate / jack love triangle is boring as fuuuuuck

i thought it was over when they had sawyer and juliet hooking up..but no....zzzzzzz

[BBboy20]

the sawyer / kate / jack love triangle is boringI still don't see what Jack sees in Kate.

[Lyman Zerga]

or what jack sees in sawyer

[checkyourprez]

or what jack sees in sawyer

a nice tight manly asshole thats what he sees. chick is lost. (no pun)

[Lyman Zerga]

my question is answered.

[beastieangel01]

I actually really hated this last episode. I am starting not to care. Especially now that Sawyer and Juliet are together.

I feel like I'm watching Dawson's Creek. On an island.

I realize there are only so many people on the island so people hook up but, ugh. STD party!

[Nuzzolese]

Jack's got to hate that Sawyer keeps having sex with all of his girlfriends - Anna Lucia, Kate, Juliet.

[checkyourprez]

I actually really hated this last episode. I am starting not to care. Especially now that Sawyer and Juliet are together.

I feel like I'm watching Dawson's Creek. On an island.

I realize there are only so many people on the island so people hook up but, ugh. STD party!

only if someone brought one onto the island. if not it should be gangbangs all around.


sawyer and juliet are together out of convenience. like you said theres only so many people there, and people need to bone. kates gone for years. i dont blame the man.

[BBboy20]

Did Sayid just ruptured the Time/Space Continuum?

[Adam]

Did Sayid just ruptured the Time/Space Continuum?

Yeah, I was thinking shouldn't that make the record start skipping again or something?

I dunno really, I'm poor at working out these things of what might happen. Maybe a future Ben comes in and saves young Ben's life.

[HAL 9000]

Young Ben cannot be killed for the same reason that Michael, Whitmore, old Ben and others can not be killed and for the same reason Charlie could not be saved. IE saving them would create a time paradox of the ‘Grandfather paradox’ variety.

For example, if Michael had successfully committed suicide when he tried to a few series ago, then he would never have been on the freighter, which would have changed events on the island which would have resulted in the Oceanic 6 never escaping thee island, and then never going back to the 70s. If they had never had gone back to the 70s then conditions on the island would have been different when the plane crashed in series 1 and Michael’s life would have been different – thus he would not been in a position to kill himself. Hence the paradox.

Interestingly, as far as we know, Old Ben (in 2007 with Sun) and Whitmore (also in 2007) are no longer protected by a time paradox because the Oceanic 6 have already gone back to the 70s from their timeline. This might mean they can be killed. It may be why both Ben and Whitmore were so keen to send the O6 back to the past – it means they are now free to kill each other having released the other one from the protection of the time paradox.

[Adam]

they could explain all this with a parallel universe but that'd be pretty lame and they probably won't do it.

[checkyourprez]

FUCK god damn you Hal. I wanted little ben to die!

[beastieangel01]

my brain hurts.

[mathcart]

Yeah...

I had that same reaction- I was in utter shock at the end of the episode and more than a little surprised by the straight og gangsta way Sayid rolls, although I definetely shouldn't of been. Total side note- it was really weird to me that the crew I was watching it with almost all universally CHEERED when Sayid shot a 12 year old. Just felt a little too weird. Plus if my peps don't appreciate Ben I may need to find others to watch with.

BUT

for the reasons that HAL so eloquently pointed out above- there's no way f'n way Ben is dead. If for no other reason that the island is bringing Resurrection back this seasons like its muthaflippin' God played by Justin Timberlake!
The island has use of Ben (for the next 30 years!) so there is no g'd way he's dead end of story. Although I will say it was among the greatest finale scene's ever on the show. Damn that was shocking- was sure they'd tease us for a few episodes with that! But as ever, the lesson- don't fuck with Sayid in any part of the space time continuum and expect to get away with that shit!

Amazing episode. It is starting to make me very concerned about their end plan. I want it to be good and not suck. But mission accomplished I guess because theres no flippin' way I'm missing an episode.
(y)

[BBboy20]

Total side note- it was really weird to me that the crew I was watching it with almost all universally CHEERED when Sayid shot a 12 year old. Just felt a little too weird.I cared less that Sayid murdered young Ben; what worried me was the Universe exploding.

[checkyourprez]

i thought sayid was going to kill him in the begining of the ep some time. then i thought he wasnt because he had made a plan that lil ben was gonna break him out and i thought he felt bad for him because of the scene with his dad. but im not going to lie i cheered. i was damn glad, not because he shot 13 year old ben, that was a little effed up, but because he killed weirdo older ben.

however the old ben telling Sayid "i know your a killer" REALLY makes sense now. he knows it first hand because sayid shot the guy when he was like 13.

shit is really going to get interesting now. although i almost guarantee next episode will focus soley on ben sun locke ect.

couple things...

who do you guys think set Sayid up, ben or wittmore? clearly it wasnt "the family" of that guy he killed.

and i still cant tell who is the good guy and the bad guy out of ben and witty. they try and make you think ben is the bad guy imo, which usually means hes the good guy. but who knows with this show, could be anything.

also i heard something very interesting from a coworker of my mother whos big into the show. i guess if you look at the people who took that "welcome to darma" photo in the 70's, and compare it to the one christian showed sun, there is 1 person missing, and someone in the bushes. i dont know if that is true or not, but just thought id throw that out there see if anyone noticed/knew about it.

[HAL 9000]

also i heard something very interesting from a coworker of my mother whos big into the show. i guess if you look at the people who took that "welcome to darma" photo in the 70's, and compare it to the one christian showed sun, there is 1 person missing, and someone in the bushes. i dont know if that is true or not, but just thought id throw that out there see if anyone noticed/knew about it.

I just checked this out - at first I thought you were correct - there seems to be 16 people in the photo that Christian shows Sun but only 15 when it cuts back to 1977 live. - but then the camera angle changes and the missing 16th person was just standing behind someone else in the previous shot.

The hidden person thing is true though - after Sun sees the photo, a blonde woman is visable over her right shoulder (probably Claire).

Just watched the latest epsiode 'Hes Our You' - I wasnt that into it, seemed like a bit of a filler episode to me. It was cool when Sayid shot Ben but clearly Ben must survive.

[mathcart]

Just watched the latest epsiode 'Hes Our You' - I wasnt that into it, seemed like a bit of a filler episode to me. It was cool when Sayid shot Ben but clearly Ben must survive.


Dude you wrote this(VVVVV) before you even saw the episode!?! Thats crazy! You read this shit before you watch the episodes? I would be too much info for me. I'm either really impressed it doesn't phase you (or the quality of your posts) or horrified at how little I absorb while watching it! Juries still out.
(y)


Young Ben cannot be killed for the same reason that Michael, Whitmore, old Ben and others can not be killed and for the same reason Charlie could not be saved. IE saving them would create a time paradox of the ‘Grandfather paradox’ variety.

For example, if Michael had successfully committed suicide when he tried to a few series ago, then he would never have been on the freighter, which would have changed events on the island which would have resulted in the Oceanic 6 never escaping thee island, and then never going back to the 70s. If they had never had gone back to the 70s then conditions on the island would have been different when the plane crashed in series 1 and Michael’s life would have been different – thus he would not been in a position to kill himself. Hence the paradox.

Interestingly, as far as we know, Old Ben (in 2007 with Sun) and Whitmore (also in 2007) are no longer protected by a time paradox because the Oceanic 6 have already gone back to the 70s from their timeline. This might mean they can be killed. It may be why both Ben and Whitmore were so keen to send the O6 back to the past – it means they are now free to kill each other having released the other one from the protection of the time paradox.

[Bob]

i love hurley. he has mental problems yet he's still the voice of reason on the show (because putting up with that crazy plot would give a reasonable person mental problems probably). my favorite moment in recent memory was early in the season (i think it was this season anyway) where he was trying to explain what happened to him to his mom, and it was basically just a recap of all of the events on the show that made it sound as crazy and stupid as the events of the show kind of are. sort of like sayid's thing with the truth serum in the last episode but better. even in the shitty video game hurley was awesome

[HAL 9000]

Dude you wrote this(VVVVV) before you even saw the episode!?! Thats crazy! You read this shit before you watch the episodes?

I foolishly forgot that you guys in the states get the episodes a couple of days before us in the UK - so I didnt realise that everyone else was talking about the next episode! When you mentioned Ben getting shot I realised I hadnt seen that and downloaded it!

[Adam]

I foolishly forgot that you guys in the states get the episodes a couple of days before us in the UK - so I didnt realise that everyone else was talking about the next episode! When you mentioned Ben getting shot I realised I hadnt seen that and downloaded it!

I piss every1 off with this. I download and watch Thursday morning and just to wind people up I say stuff like...

...it's crazy in lost that that guy had to, oh wait - you've not seen it
so that means you don't know about the... ...oops, I won't say
They ask: So was it any good?
nah

simple pleasures

[Junker]

I have to download it on Thursday too.

[beastieangel01]

I like that the writers were poking fun of themselves a bit with the conversation Hurley and Miles were having.

At the end of this episode I actually said "OH SHIT! It is ON!" and pumped my fist.

I lead a sad life :(

[Nuzzolese]

That last episode pissed me off it was so stupid. Have they, or have they not written themselves into a hole from which they are now pulling shit out of their asses with which to extricate....which...are they...it's stupid, okay?

Evangeline Lilly deserves a TV actress award for her ability to decently play, as well as anyone could, the most mixed up and inconsistent character who has no realistic emotional motivations but instead is a tool for the writers to change as needed to answer plot holes they apparently didn't see coming.

And what's with that "if he comes with us, he'll lose his innocence and won't remember this" hibbity jibbity? Why would he have to forget it all and lose his innocence - whatever that means? Uh, I guess because they couldn't think of any better reason for him to have to forget it all, and that's what the plot needed.

Maybe they'll make up for it and answer it all in the end but it's getting silly the way they keep backpedalling as the answers to the great questions become more and more contrived.

I loved the ending of the last episode, though. Does this make the second time that Ben has killed Locke, only to see him come back to life again?
I like the new Jack.


I love this show and I hate it and that's why I love it.

[beastieangel01]

re: new Jack, me too!

"You never liked the old me, Kate."

Verbal slap to the face.

[Echewta]

Who knew the fountain of youth would be so complicated.

[checkyourprez]

re: new Jack, me too!

"You never liked the old me, Kate."

Verbal slap to the face.

yea about time he stopped being that cunts whipping boy.


eff a verbal slap to the face, he should just knock her teeth out. possibly one of the most annoying characters in tv history to me.


but damn she was looking fine in that grocery story. defiantly would have hate fucked the shit out of her there.

[HAL 9000]

I like that the writers were poking fun of themselves a bit with the conversation Hurley and Miles were having.




I know what you mean - the bit where Hurley asked why Ben didnt remember Sayid when he was being tortured and Miles said 'Good Question' – that felt like an in-joke by the writers – ie they had recently realised that was a plothole in the story and were making a joke about it. They covered it with the bit about Ben not remembering anything once he had been in the temple, but that was slightly weak.


Otherwise I like the way it played out – especially the fact that Sayid, in his attempt to save the world from Evil Ben, has inadvertently created him. I dont thinkit feels that contrived, most things seem to be falling into place quite nicely. The most significant error I have noticed is getting Charlottes age wrong (In season four Ben said she was born in 1979 but in 1974 we see her being about 4 years old).

[mathcart]

the bit where Hurley asked why Ben didnt remember Sayid when he was being tortured and Miles said 'Good Question' – that felt like an in-joke by the writers – ie they had recently realised that was a plothole in the story and were making a joke about it. They covered it with the bit about Ben not remembering anything once he had been in the temple, but that was slightly weak.

I loved that scene! Very funny and tongue in check and I love how incredulous Miles is at the beginning at how Hurley doesn't get it but is at a total loss for words at the end (not being privy to the admittedly contrived temple trick!)

Also I loved when Hurley said he was watching to see if he was about to "go all back to the future". Love a good Hurley moment- havent been any in too long for my tastes!


Otherwise I like the way it played out – especially the fact that Sayid, in his attempt to save the world from Evil Ben, has inadvertently created him. I dont thinkit feels that contrived, most things seem to be falling into place quite nicely. The most significant error I have noticed is getting Charlottes age wrong (In season four Ben said she was born in 1979 but in 1974 we see her being about 4 years old).

I agree- loved that the "victims" of the reality of the island were in fact responsible for making it the way it was! Truly terrific writing.

btw- very impressive catch on Charlotte's age. nicely done holms!

Overall I'd say I'm very excited for where this is going!
(y)

[Adam]

I'm the same as Nuzz with that last episode. It really wasn't clever writing at all.

[checkyourprez]

I know what you mean - the bit where Hurley asked why Ben didnt remember Sayid when he was being tortured and Miles said 'Good Question' – that felt like an in-joke by the writers – ie they had recently realised that was a plothole in the story and were making a joke about it. They covered it with the bit about Ben not remembering anything once he had been in the temple, but that was slightly weak.


Otherwise I like the way it played out – especially the fact that Sayid, in his attempt to save the world from Evil Ben, has inadvertently created him. I dont thinkit feels that contrived, most things seem to be falling into place quite nicely. The most significant error I have noticed is getting Charlottes age wrong (In season four Ben said she was born in 1979 but in 1974 we see her being about 4 years old).

i personally liked that part more because everyone that watches the show has been wondering how its working. and they actually addressed it like normal people would in that situation, like a "what the fuck is going on here" moment. the fact that they are confused about it as some of us are is realistic.

I'm the same as Nuzz with that last episode. It really wasn't clever writing at all.

I think a sign of clever writing is the ability to write yourself out of a hole. Is it perfect, eh, is it to everyones liking, eh, but its still a very plausible explanation and who knows with this show. I feel like even when you think something may be stupid it always comes back sometime in a future episode and makes sense, for the most part. And if it doesnt really end up looking good in this instance in the future, eh, they're human too you know.

[HAL 9000]

Another possible error with this storyline concerns the watch that Richard and Locke keep giving to each other – I think I mentioned above but it appears to be an uncreated watch which keeps going forward and back in time. I personally find that kind of information paradox very cool – but it doesn’t work with a watch because the watch should be infinitely old and therefore should have a) stopped working b) broken down into its elements c) decayed into Bosons.

One way out of this as a writer is to have the watch replaced at some point, ie Richard accidentally loses it and gets a replica made – that would solve that problem. It is a fairly minor thing but it does annoy me.

Thinking some more about this episode, the Kate back story was a total non-event. Basically the solution to the question of why Kate suddenly decided to go on the plane and why she lost Aaron is that she changed her mind about the plane and left him with his Grandma – boring. I at least thought Aaron had been kidnapped by Widmore and Kate blackmailed.

Also regarding the last scene with Ben and Locke. I thought it was cool because (if my Lost theories are correct) Ben is now (in 2007) operating without the protection of the time paradox and without the benefit of knowledge of future events that can be extracted from the survivors in 1977. So we see Ben looking surprised (which he hardly ever is) and vulnerable (and knowing it). Or maybe he was just a bit groggy after being smacked in the head.

[Adam]

I think a sign of clever writing is the ability to write yourself out of a hole. Is it perfect, eh, is it to everyones liking, eh, but its still a very plausible explanation and who knows with this show. I feel like even when you think something may be stupid it always comes back sometime in a future episode and makes sense, for the most part. And if it doesnt really end up looking good in this instance in the future, eh, they're human too you know.

I see your point. But I like to be confused with Lost. I don't want the whole thing explained almost in one episode. Maybe it will come back as a clever piece, but handing over a 12 year old kid to the dark side (in Dharma's eyes) because he has been shot when it seems Dharma has the best facilities in the first place doesn't seem right. If they knew the others had the power of time travel then yeah - plausible, but they don't.

Handing Aaron over to her Grandma - I actually think that'll have some meat on it in the future. Like Aaron's Grandma is actually Claire or something - plus she looked far too young to be her Grandma

[HAL 9000]

I see your point. But I like to be confused with Lost. I don't want the whole thing explained almost in one episode. Maybe it will come back as a clever piece, but handing over a 12 year old kid to the dark side (in Dharma's eyes) because he has been shot when it seems Dharma has the best facilities in the first place doesn't seem right. If they knew the others had the power of time travel then yeah - plausible, but they don't.

Handing Aaron over to her Grandma - I actually think that'll have some meat on it in the future. Like Aaron's Grandma is actually Claire or something - plus she looked far too young to be her Grandma

In terms of giving Ben to the Others – remember that it was Juliet’s idea to do that and she is an ex-other and presumably knows something of their capabilities. I don’t think the implication is that the others will utilise time travel to heal him – just that they have some kind of magic healing process within that temple that will also make Ben into ‘one of them’. It is odd though that the magic temple option was not open to the others on occasions in the future when they are injured (ie when Ben needed surgery).I dont really like the 'magic' bits in Lost.

I find it hard to imagine that Claire’s Grandmother is anyone of significance within Lost. She seemed pretty oblivious to events on the island and I cant see how it would work from a time travel point of view. But then, who knows, it is an interesting idea?

I am also predicting (very tentatively) that at some point the Others, led by Ben will take the survivors prisoner, lock them in that crazy room (Room 23?) and extract all the information they have on future events.

Also – just googled that room – in the brainwashing video that gets shown, there is the text “We are the causes of our own suffering” which ties in rather nicely with the last episode.

[Bob]

i must have missed something with this whole "temple" thing, is that the place where richard took ben? why did the music get all dramatic when he went in? i feel like i'm supposed to remember what that is and that it's supposed to mean something to me but sadly i don't and it doesn't :(

also add me to the list of people that liked the conversation between hurley and miles. those two are my favorite characters anyway so it was good to see them together like that. they seem to have appropriately given up and decided to just go with the flow

[mathcart]

One of my best friends and I are are agreed that since a sit-com of us will most likely never be made that scene with miles and hurley arguing was as close as we will ever get to seeing us on the tv! (I bet a lot of people feel that way!)
:)


Another thing of interest I've recently been thinking about is Jacob. Or more specifically who Jacob surrounds himself with- Christian and Claire, Jack's sister and father. Don't have any theories on this at the moment other than noticing what the writers seem to want us to assume- there is some huge connection between Jacob and Jack.

Interesting too now that Jack has become new Jack (version 2.0) on LOST island where he is visibly relieved to not be in charge or in fact have ANY responsibility for the outcome of any situation. He has washed his hands of it and seems totally at peace with going with the flow! Crazy- we'll see how long the new operating system keeps up before it gets all the inevitable bugs that cause it to revert back to its original version. Good times.
(y)

[Adam]

The next episode is called Dead is Dead. So I am guessing some1 who is dead will be dead.

Maybe the island is the afterlife and the smoke monster is Jesus.

The one after is called Some Like it Hoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoth)

Maybe AT-AT's invade the island during a freak snowstorm and some like the new look of the island.

[checkyourprez]

One of my best friends and I are are agreed that since a sit-com of us will most likely never be made that scene with miles and hurley arguing was as close as we will ever get to seeing us on the tv! (I bet a lot of people feel that way!)
:)


Another thing of interest I've recently been thinking about is Jacob. Or more specifically who Jacob surrounds himself with- Christian and Claire, Jack's sister and father. Don't have any theories on this at the moment other than noticing what the writers seem to want us to assume- there is some huge connection between Jacob and Jack.

Interesting too now that Jack has become new Jack (version 2.0) on LOST island where he is visibly relieved to not be in charge or in fact have ANY responsibility for the outcome of any situation. He has washed his hands of it and seems totally at peace with going with the flow! Crazy- we'll see how long the new operating system keeps up before it gets all the inevitable bugs that cause it to revert back to its original version. Good times.
(y)

i like your train of thought.

[HAL 9000]

Here is a question for you…


How old is Daniel Faraday? If he was 27 or older when we first met him in Series 4, then it means he must (or is likely to be) be alive on the island as a child in 1977 (because his Mum, Ellie is there in 1977).

So…

Did Daniel meet his younger self in the 1970s? Is this why he has now apparently disappeared (Universe couldn’t handle the weirdness of it)?

Who is Daniel’s father – Widmore (maybe partly why Widmore funds his research) – one the time travellers (Sawyer?) – or maybe Daniel is his own father?!?!?

As Ellie would be about 45 in the mid 70s and about the same age as Widmore, I would guess that Widmore is the father.

Or the above could all be bollox.

[Guy Incognito]

i havent read all this thread to see if this has been mentioned before but am i right in thinking that Ben asked Jack to save him from cancer because Ben knew Jacks character so well that he would refuse to help him second time (or should that be first time) around.

[mathcart]

i havent read all this thread to see if this has been mentioned before but am i right in thinking that Ben asked Jack to save him from cancer because Ben knew Jacks character so well that he would refuse to help him second time (or should that be first time) around.

He has no memory of this incident due to the as yet unconfirmed temple trick that steals your innocence and certainly has no idea that Jack refused to help him. End of story.

[mathcart]

Here is a question for you…


How old is Daniel Faraday? If he was 27 or older when we first met him in Series 4, then it means he must (or is likely to be) be alive on the island as a child in 1977 (because his Mum, Ellie is there in 1977).

So…

Did Daniel meet his younger self in the 1970s? Is this why he has now apparently disappeared (Universe couldn’t handle the weirdness of it)?

Who is Daniel’s father – Widmore (maybe partly why Widmore funds his research) – one the time travellers (Sawyer?) – or maybe Daniel is his own father?!?!?

As Ellie would be about 45 in the mid 70s and about the same age as Widmore, I would guess that Widmore is the father.

Or the above could all be bollox.


Yeah. You also pointed out Charlotte's mis-aged. Evidently the stupid writers can't do math and instead of having them go back to the early eighties were back in the late 70's. Stop pointing this stuff out please, it only makes me mad at LOST and you wouldn't like me when I mad at LOST!
:mad:

[HAL 9000]

I think the Charlotte thing was an mistake by the Continuity Editor (rather than writers) – someone on set changed the script because they didn’t think Charlottes age mattered (obviously not being privy to the long term story line and thinking that Charlotte looked more like a 29 year old than a 38 year old) and decided to use the actual birthdate of the Charlotte actress rather than the characters age – this then just got missed by everyone.

The thing I wrote about Daniel is not supposed to be a continuity error – I think this is a genuine and cool plot point. I like the idea of someone meeting their younger self – what would you do if you could do that, what would you say? Also the idea of someone being their own father is classic also time travel fodder – good stuff! I cant wait to see the episode where this happens (if it does).

We don’t know Daniel’s age in this – he could be in his mid-twenties and not yet born on the island. I just think it would be cool if he was there somewhere. If Charlotte is supposed to be mid/late thirties and Daniel is a love interest for her – it would make sense that he was about the same age – we shall see.

[Tzar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tpo3KxOhVo&feature=related

[checkyourprez]

another terrific episode.

i dont think ben killed penny.

i am glad that the mystery of christian was partly solved, for me at least. he is tangible person, not just a figment of ones imagination as they led on.

im glad the smoke put ben in his place.

johns character has developed superbly. i loved when ben was waiting for the smoke and said something about being scared of what will be coming out of those woods, and it was john. that was cool.

i am wondering where the 2009 islanders got those guns, and what they are going to do with them.

i think john is on course to be the new wittmore/ben.

[BBboy20]

So the Smoke Monster really is a Smoke Monster; I was always given the impression that it was generated by some old yet very high-tech floating device of death.

Eh, John seems too "omnipotent" to be walking in Ben/Charles' route. More like the Jesus of the Island so far.

Either they are other Others/Charles' men or something happened/discovered something/someone told/revealed them something.

[Jollop]

Loved that episode, more Miles please!

[checkyourprez]

i only caught the second half because of class but i liked it.

next weeks looks really good.


dumb kate, always causing problems. im crossing my fingers she gets voted off the island.

[Bob]

god i love hurley and miles

[BBboy20]

Take that, Lucas!

[Adam]

god i love hurley and miles

Yeah me two - I'm hoping for a sex scene.

[Echewta]

I saw Sayid at my work today. Big sun glasses, leather coat, cig haning low on the mouth... Too cool for school.

[checkyourprez]

why didnt you ask him some stuff about lost dude ??!!?!?!?!!

[Echewta]

Thats how someone looses a job here.

[checkyourprez]

but you would be a beastie boys forum lost thread legend.


i suggest you think about what really matters in your life.

[Echewta]

Women, booze, and the Wu Tang. Lost isn't on that list.

[checkyourprez]

i appreciate the critical analysis and respect, yet am disappointing with your decision.

[nodanaonlyzuul]

SPOILERS!!!!!


ok?

there are spoilers...so skip my post if you have not seen the newest episode aired last night on April 29th.



K






So, poor Daniel :( I hope they save him because he is one of the best characters. Still, when he was saying "you knew" to his Mom, that's some fucked up shit right there.

[BBboy20]

So, poor Daniel :( I hope they save him because he is one of the best characters. Still, when he was saying "you knew" to his Mom, that's some fucked up shit right there.I know. :( ...I don't know, Jack or Kate could have done something...*sigh*

[HAL 9000]

SPOILERS

What a great episode! Daniel’s whole life has been about his mother manipulating him to follow are path that leads to her killing him!

The question of whether it is true that ‘what ever happens happens’ or whether you can change you destiny was certainly reopened in this episode. In the past we have seen that Desmond has been able to change the future slightly by having foreknowledge of it, but that things tend to self-correct in the end.


However, the fact that Eloise has devoted her life to protecting a particular timeline suggests that Daniel is right and that you can change things more substantially (although he failed to do so in this episode). If ‘Whatever happens, happens’ then why do Eloise and Charles try to trick people down certain paths – surely those paths would just unfurl anyway?

So it is likely that history can be rewritten but Eloise and Charles want to protect it. Obviously the big question is why? The current timeline sees a load of tragedies including the death of Faraday – why would Eloise protect that? Clearly Widmore becomes very rich (presumably because he knows the future) so his motivation is clear and Eloise is pretty wealthy too - but is that worth killing her son? Maybe there is another motive not yet seen.

Earlier in this thread, I mentioned that now the Oceanic 6 have gone back in time, 2007 Ben and Widmore are no longer protected by the time paradox. Clearly this is true of 2007 Eloise too, who also says that she now has no knowledge of the future. This implies (as suggested above) that she gathers extensive knowledge of the time period 1977 to 2007 from the Oceanic 6 when she encounters them in 1977. Is it simply the case that Widmore and Eloise are going to capture and torture the Dharma good guys (Jack, Sawyer etc) for information about the future to make themselves rich? Is it all about money?

Widmore has been trying to find the island so he can deliver Daniel to the island so he can get shot – because at that moment, 1977 Eloise and Widmore realise that the Jack/ Hurley crew are from the future and can be used for profit. And this makes them mega rich…

Or are there deeper motives?

Probably too much conjecture here, I better have a lie down

[Adam]

Do you know what annoys me about the dialogue in Lost?

When people who seemingly know each other always call each other by their first name just for the benefit of the viewer of guessing who they are. Like when meeting younger characters etc when there is some1 new in the room

How many people walk up to a friend and say
'Hello Stephen'
'oh hello Adam'

or

'stop playing the piano daniel' <-- oh so that is daniel,

You generally just say 'hey' if you know each other or 'how about these math problems instead of the piano'

Meh, I can't explain but I know what I mean :D

[HAL 9000]

Do you know what annoys me about the dialogue in Lost?

When people who seemingly know each other always call each other by their first name just for the benefit of the viewer of guessing who they are. Like when meeting younger characters etc when there is some1 new in the room

How many people walk up to a friend and say
'Hello Stephen'
'oh hello Adam'

or

'stop playing the piano daniel' <-- oh so that is daniel,

You generally just say 'hey' if you know each other or 'how about these math problems instead of the piano'

Meh, I can't explain but I know what I mean :D

I know what you mean - also the little reminder from Daniel that they can still be killed, (obviously for the audiences benefit) rather pointed to the fact that he was about to die.

[nodanaonlyzuul]

I think with how much Lost has going on, the writers assume that the average viewer will not retain the amount of information they have given them... even something as simple as names.

That and well, most people are dumb and need their hand held that much to understand things. Even a TV show.

[Waus]

When Daniel did that little discourse about how he "didn't have a scar" when Jack met him before...I don't think that made sense.

Jack met him before he would have gotten the scar, not after, so there's no reason he would've had it when Jack met him. That point doesn't support or refute the idea that you can't change the past - it's irrelevant.

[Echewta]

Ha! Eloise and Charles did it. In the camp. While there were Others around.

*snirfle*

[roosta]

The moment time travel was introduced, I knew there would be a plot wherein a character would attempt to stop the hatch from blowing thus stopping the plane from ever crashing. I also knew there would be a discussion as to whether they should do this (as they then would never have met etc.). And it has come to pass.

Final episode, final scene: Slow mo footage of the plane landing safely in LA, characters getting off, looking at each other like they sort of semi-should know each other but dont.

The end.

[roosta]

When Daniel did that little discourse about how he "didn't have a scar" when Jack met him before...I don't think that made sense.

Jack met him before he would have gotten the scar, not after, so there's no reason he would've had it when Jack met him. That point doesn't support or refute the idea that you can't change the past - it's irrelevant.

His point is he's reminding everyone that despite the fact they are in the 70s they shouldn't think of it as "the past", it is their present.

[checkyourprez]

The moment time travel was introduced, I knew there would be a plot wherein a character would attempt to stop the hatch from blowing thus stopping the plane from ever crashing. I also knew there would be a discussion as to whether they should do this (as they then would never have met etc.). And it has come to pass.

Final episode, final scene: Slow mo footage of the plane landing safely in LA, characters getting off, looking at each other like they sort of semi-should know each other but dont.

The end.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiight....easy to call now that they just set it up for you :rolleyes:

but i think thats how it might end too. however at the same time, thats a massively easily give away from the writers if its true. theres still a season and some episodes left, i dont think a show this creative would tip their hand off this early in the game.

[Adam]

If it does end like that then the writers might as well give in writing anything else cus no1 will employ 'em. Its 2nd only worst-ending-ever to it was all some1s dream.

So I have faith and doubt it'll be something that retarded.

[HAL 9000]

I cant see it ending that way personally and I suspect that the hatch will blow up. If they did go for that final scene, it would be a challenge to shoot, would you have Walt getting off the plane looking 6 years older than when he got on? Or maybe they already shot the final scene when they made the pilot?

I think a tragic ending of some kind is on the cards, but who knows

[Adam]

problem being, cus its an american show it is likely to have a happy ending. I mean I don't care as long as it s a good ending but I always know that with most american tv shows it'll be a happy ending. Except The Wire and Twin Peaks which just proves the rule that you can have an amazing tv show with a tragic ending (of soughts).

[checkyourprez]

this really is why lost is so good. they almost bait us into thinking it might end like this. i think its what they want.

watch like half of the originals die. just some totally mind blowing stuff. hell we've been watching nothing but mind blowing stuff for 5 years i think they are way to clever to end on a cop out.

(crossing my fingers while typing that (man that was hard))

[Bob]

wait, is this the last season?

[mathcart]

no. theres one more after this one finishes up.

[Burnout18]

problem being, cus its an american show it is likely to have a happy ending. I mean I don't care as long as it s a good ending but I always know that with most american tv shows it'll be a happy ending. Except The Wire and Twin Peaks which just proves the rule that you can have an amazing tv show with a tragic ending (of soughts).

sopranos didn't have a happy ending

[Adam]

sopranos didn't have a happy ending

another good example.

I suppose I am more talking about the piss poor writers they have in hollywood in hindsight.

But half a dozen examples out of the drivel that cover 24 hours of rolling shows on 200+ channels - without doing a survey, I guess most have happy endings. Like I say, its fitting to have happy as long as its a good ending.

[roosta]

riiiiiiiiiiiiiight....easy to call now that they just set it up for you :rolleyes:


i am claiming to have called this long ago.

i'm only saying it now because it looks likely

[Bob]

sopranos didn't have a happy ending

sopranos didn't have any ending

[checkyourprez]

i am claiming to have called this long ago.

i'm only saying it now because it looks likely

just busting your roosta balls.


i think they make it look likely on purpose.


and it will be shockingly murderous instead.

[Guy Incognito]

it was a good episode and i am now finally starting to get my head round it, the end that roosta mentioned is a good shout.

The wife reckons its a distinct possibility (i'm not sure) that desmond and penny's lad is actuallyCharles widmore. I'm not sure about the maths on that one but if they go back to the island its gonna be on my mind

[Bob]

or it could be charlie....i forget his last name but you know, charlie, the hobbit

[Guy Incognito]

or it could be charlie....i forget his last name but you know, charlie, the hobbit

no way - the kid is named charlie after the hobbit because he saved desmonds life. charlie cant come back to the island because he's dead so only hurley and miles would be able to see him.
desmond and penny will come back to the island and if its in a different time then i reckon its odds on its widmore. Widmore hasnt ever seen his grandkid so its possible.
and if it is true,whether widmore knows his daughter is his mum is another thing.

[Tzar]

great episode. getting in there nice and early :cool:

[mathcart]

no way - the kid is named charlie after the hobbit because he saved desmonds life. charlie cant come back to the island because he's dead so only hurley and miles would be able to see him.
desmond and penny will come back to the island and if its in a different time then i reckon its odds on its widmore. Widmore hasnt ever seen his grandkid so its possible.
and if it is true,whether widmore knows his daughter is his mum is another thing.

As of last night this argument also applies to Widmore as he is now dead! Its a weird theory anyway and probably won't happen.

As for weird theories I'm also (strongly) betting against the last scene of the last episode being the plane touching done at LAX. There palying with us and telegraphis this AND when the hell has LOST every been predictible? Infuriating and maddening, but not predictible.

Really not sure where there going with this do over nonsense. Hope the season finale sets us off in a good direction.

Heres hoping

[Guy Incognito]

^ Note to myself, dont get involved in this thread talking about last weeks episode when people have seen the latest episode.

However when i spoke to some people who have seen follow the leader they told me widmore didnt die, in the words of eric cartman.."..the fuck?"

I wont be touching this thread till sunday.

[checkyourprez]

big wit aint going no where.

[mathcart]

^ Note to myself, dont get involved in this thread talking about last weeks episode when people have seen the latest episode.

However when i spoke to some people who have seen follow the leader they told me widmore didnt die, in the words of eric cartman.."..the fuck?"

I wont be touching this thread till sunday.

Sorry, sorry- my bad. I always forgot about you people not in America watching this. Is this the first show that has ever been broadcast internationally in the same season? I think it is and thats awesome!

As for what I said I stand by every word of it- but talk to me after you see it.

And again I'm sorry for not alerting to spoilers.

:o

[mathcart]

big wit aint going no where.

Yo international's- ***** SPOILERS******
:rolleyes:

Probably not- no doubt the end of the big bad wit, but as of right now homeboy is pushing up the daiseys- which was only relevant in my original post to say GI was wrong. That is all.
(y)

[Bob]

no way - the kid is named charlie after the hobbit because he saved desmonds life. charlie cant come back to the island because he's dead so only hurley and miles would be able to see him.
desmond and penny will come back to the island and if its in a different time then i reckon its odds on its widmore. Widmore hasnt ever seen his grandkid so its possible.
and if it is true,whether widmore knows his daughter is his mum is another thing.

i don't see why the kid can't be charlie hobbit though. grown up charlie hobbit is dead, but maybe this is how (and when) he was born and he's going to go back in time and grow up to be him

[Guy Incognito]

i don't see why the kid can't be charlie hobbit though. grown up charlie hobbit is dead, but maybe this is how (and when) he was born and he's going to go back in time and grow up to be him

what about his brother and the band and all that back story and being a smackhead and all that. cant see it happening at all

[Guy Incognito]

Is this the first show that has ever been broadcast internationally in the same season? I think it is and thats awesome!

.



no - i just heard from a coupla people who watched it on t'internet.

shit - i said i was staying out of this thread

[Bob]

what about his brother and the band and all that back story and being a smackhead and all that. cant see it happening at all

it happens as he grows up? why can't it happen

[Guy Incognito]

it happens as he grows up? why can't it happen

because if he'd travelled back in time he'd have been able to pick up some songwriting tips from the legendary musicians and write better songs than the dross his band had "hits" with:p i dont know. i'm just really confused and excited about whats going to happen next

[Bob]

because if he'd travelled back in time he'd have been able to pick up some songwriting tips from the legendary musicians and write better songs than the dross his band had "hits" with:p i dont know. i'm just really confused and excited about whats going to happen next

no, all i'm saying is that toddler charlie goes back in time to a point where he grows up to be the person that he is (or was, rather) in the "present" day. i forget how old he was, but let's say he's 29 in 2007; toddler charlie goes back in time to 1982 and grows up from there, with all the experiences that he went through (the band, the drugs, etc)

i'm not saying that's going to happen, i just don't understand why it can't

[Guy Incognito]

no, all i'm saying is that toddler charlie goes back in time to a point where he grows up to be the person that he is (or was, rather) in the "present" day. i forget how old he was, but let's say he's 29 in 2007; toddler charlie goes back in time to 1982 and grows up from there, with all the experiences that he went through (the band, the drugs, etc)

i'm not saying that's going to happen, i just don't understand why it can't

its possible but i think in terms of the storylines, its a non starter- charlie the hobbits story has ended really, there are connections to hurley and clare where he might appear as a ghost type but i think the naming of the son was a little red herring.

anyhoo, widmore isnt dead, mathcart. good episode last night, although it was funny when kate got in the sub, i dont think there is time or need to carry on with the bizarre love rhombus thing.

[nodanaonlyzuul]

Kate is so obnoxious. Please die.

[checkyourprez]

it happens as he grows up? why can't it happen

you are wrong bob.

the judge and the jury have not ruled in your favor.

reformulate your case and go back to the court of appeals.

[checkyourprez]

Kate is so obnoxious. Please die.

i agree.

i have hated her for years now. she would really get hate fucked hard by me if i had the chance.


hopefully she is one of the people that dies in the end.


thats my prediction. half of the O6 die.

[checkyourprez]

dont read this unless you want the season finale ruined you brits






















































that was sick we got to see the statue.

jacob gets in one episode and he dies. wtf? pretty sweet though how he "helped" all those people along the way.

why would john want him to die? hes the one who saved his life, (brought him back from the dead would be more appropriate actually) twice.

whats up with him living in that statue?


miles brought up a great point about what if we were supposed to stop your friend. i thought they let that pass over a bit too easily.


and most importantly juliet detonates the bomb. WTF? talk about a way to end a season, literally.


that leaves next season open to anything. pretty crazy. speculating at this point is almost absurd. it could go in any number of directions. or could it?
(hal looking in your direction)

[BBboy20]

that was sick we got to see the statue.That scene may date back date back to the 1700s.

jacob gets in one episode and he dies. wtf? pretty sweet though how he "helped" all those people along the way. And that where Hurley get that guitar from.

why would john want him to die? hes the one who saved his life, (brought him back from the dead would be more appropriate actually) twice. ...you don't recall the first scene? Because I don't think that's John.


i thought they let that pass over a bit too easily.Faraday?

WTF? talk about a way to end a season, literally. I was literally like "WTF!?" at that...though, it is interesting though that the one person not visited by Jacob would be the one to trigger the bomb.

[checkyourprez]

That scene may date back date back to the 1700s.

And that where Hurley get that guitar from.

...you don't recall the first scene? Because I don't think that's John.


Faraday?

I was literally like "WTF!?" at that...though, it is interesting though that the one person not visited by Jacob would be the one to trigger the bomb.

I missed like the first minute or two of the episode. I saw them when they were on the beach and then they showed the statue. was there something else before that that would explain two johns?


but its not impossible for there two be 2 of the same people on the island? miles was there when baby miles was there.

[Nuzzolese]

What an insult to fans who have devoted so much of their lives, sacrificed so much to watch this show, that these latest episodes are written like such soap operas! They are blatantly wasting time and flipping the plots around based not on exciting twists and revelations, (remember back in the early seasons when you'd be so excited to find out why something happened, and why a person behaved a certain way!?) but instead now basing it on irrational people changing their minds, fighting over women, behaving like entirely unlikeable people with no noble pursuits - while in the past they were flawed but complex they're now just jealous and emotional. It's all about Kate, now. Boo hiss on the whole Kate Juliet Sawyer Jack nonsense.

[checkyourprez]

What an insult to fans who have devoted so much of their lives, sacrificed so much to watch this show, that these latest episodes are written like such soap operas! They are blatantly wasting time and flipping the plots around based not on exciting twists and revelations, (remember back in the early seasons when you'd be so excited to find out why something happened, and why a person behaved a certain way!?) but instead now basing it on irrational people changing their minds, fighting over women, behaving like entirely unlikeable people with no noble pursuits - while in the past they were flawed but complex they're now just jealous and emotional. It's all about Kate, now. Boo hiss on the whole Kate Juliet Sawyer Jack nonsense.

somebodies jealous they dont get kate like attention.

[Echewta]

Jacob (God, Good, Ra) vs. ??? (Devil, Evil, ??).
In some mythology, there is a good of neutrality. Perhaps Richard is that? Three ageless immortals. Good, Evil, and Neutrality?

The classic tale of the Devil wanting God out of the picture and not believing in man. God beliving that man is good. The Devil manipulates (shape of dead Locke, dead Jacks dad, dead Hurley visions) man to bring God down and prove him wrong but in the end, the good that God believes is in man comes out at the end and the Devil get his due, regardless of the "loop hole."

Un-Locke playing on Ben's lack of self esteem to kill Jacob, because Ben was apparently some kind of choosen one. But of course, we didn't see Jacob actually die, just get stabbed. Ben looking at Jacob with his whys? and Jacob matter of factly saying "What about you?" Perhaps because man is merely pawns in the chess game of the heavens? Is the island Eden, Nirvana, etc?

Jacob flashbacks kept showing him trying to, but with freewill, tell everyone to choose the right path and apologizing for the hurt and suffering that perhaps the Devil was causing to "put everything in place" for the final kill.

I loved the episode and Kate's ass in those jeans. I think it will be interesting if this has all been a massive chess game and these people and their challenges really been nothing.

[BBboy20]

but its not impossible for there two be 2 of the same people on the island? miles was there when baby miles was there.One possibility that who ever this Other Dude is able to duplicate dead "chosen ones" or something like that. Though I'm not sure if he's also duplicating Christian.

[Burnout18]

What an insult to fans who have devoted so much of their lives, sacrificed so much to watch this show, that these latest episodes are written like such soap operas!

Hate to bring up the sopranos twice in a thread about another show, but this is going down just like sopranos last season (parts A&B). A little is revealed here and there, but a lot of bullshit filler is taking up time it seems.... i feel like shit isn't going to be solved until the final two episodes.... and those fucking writers know we are going to watch every episode anyways. But i agree with you...


Spoiler---


But does last night explain why Richard said he visited Locke three times and found nothing special about him?.... I think there is nothing special about locke, he is just a pawn. Plus how the fuck was juliet not killed from that fall, right? come on. After that great drill scene (thought it was great Miles saved his dad), we were treated to ben doing a weakass killing of jacob and juliet smashing a rock against the bomb....

[mathcart]

Could wait another g-d second so international heads look out - SPOILERS AHEAD*******************






I wanted to quote everyone above but thought that would get to confusing so instead I'll just run through my thoughts & observations.

To begin with I freakin' loved it!

(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

So anyone that didn't pay strict attention to the first minute and a half (and the last) should immediately watch that shit again

So about the beginning in no particular order:

Statue= AWESOME. I felt strongly that if they gave me something on that statue everything else would be gravy! Believe its some egypitian animal head statue thing, we looked it up last night and there were some interesting things there, can't really remmeber now...

But tha'ts just my shit- what mattered was the conversation Jacob and ??? were having as they watch the black rock descending on the island. Okay theres a lot here. They seem to be setting up the last season by going meta. So we meet Jacob and his mythical brother Essau (its biblical people look that shit up). Essau wants to know why there are people coming toward the island. But he doesn't want to know how- he concedes Jacob has done it (and has done it before).

We have been thrown head first with no explanation into a classic island dialetic of oppositional forces. A mythical brothers war. This seems to be almost a bet about human nature between the 2 of them. Essau says something like we know how this will end and mentions suffering, death corruption and the like. Jacob is not convinced.

Ok that above bit was genius, I just want to pause to acknowledge that.

So all the drama that we have ever seen play out with all the oceanic survivors, the others, the dharma initiative has been because of this feud. Jacob is hopeful that "we" will work it out, Essau takes the historically accurate view that we never have before so why would we start now. Interestingly all the stupid drama going on isn't the point- its the puppeteers behind the stage that are much more the point here.

So again if you missed it. Essau ends that exchange by asking Jacob if he knows how much he wants to kill him. Great moment because what the fuck are they that they can't????? He tells them he's gonna have to find a loophole.

Ok so skip to the end and- Essau IS fugazi Locke (sorry to be mostly just restating what happened- but judging from above posts a lot of people were missing this). He has found his loophole. And in a great moment of turnabout easily manipulates Ben into murdering Jacob. His loophole- Ben shouldn't be on the island he doesn't belong there. Although it could also be that Locke is dead and Ben is exiled so there is no "leader". I'm hoping they explain this a bit better next season.

But we spent the episode via flashbacks seeing Jacob showing up to visit his children at crucial moments in there life. They would seem to be his pawn pieces in this chess game or at least the side hes betting on in the ongoing battle with his brother. He has positioned his pieces (our main characters) to continue the fight without him.

Maybe. I like it, whatever it is. Very fun finale. Can't wait for the last season.

Bummer bout Juliette. She was really among my favorites- although we called that she was toast by the end of the episode half hour in. And when there was her flashback w/o Jacob it was a done deal for her!

ah the LOST off-season. How exciting and disappointing at the same time, maybe I'll read a book or two.

[checkyourprez]

Could wait another g-d second so international heads look out - SPOILERS AHEAD*******************






I wanted to quote everyone above but thought that would get to confusing so instead I'll just run through my thoughts & observations.

To begin with I freakin' loved it!

(y)(y)(y)(y)

So anyone that didn't pay strict attention to the first minute and a half (and the last) should immediately watch that shit again

So about the beginning in no particular order:

Statue= AWESOME. I felt strongly that if they gave me something on that statue everything else would be gravy! Believe its some egypitian animal head statue thing, we looked it up last night and there were some interesting things there, can't really remmeber now...

But tha'ts just my shit- what mattered was the conversation Jacob and ??? were having as they watch the black rock descending on the island. Okay theres a lot here. They seem to be setting up the last season by going meta. So we meet Jacob and his mythical brother Essau (its biblical people look that shit up). Essau wants to know why there are people coming toward the island. But he doesn't want to know how- he concedes Jacob has done it (and has done it before).

We have been thrown head first with no explanation into a classic island dialetic of oppositional forces. A mythical brothers war. This seems to be almost a bet about human nature between the 2 of them. Essau says something like we know how this will end and mentions suffering, death corruption and the like. Jacob is not convinced.

Ok that above bit was genius, I just want to pause to acknowledge that.

So all the drama that we have ever seen play out with all the oceanic survivors, the others, the dharma initiative has been because of this feud. Jacob is hopeful that "we" will work it out, Essau takes the historically accurate view that we never have before so why would we start now. Interestingly all the stupid drama going on isn't the point- its the puppeteers behind the stage that are much more the point here.

So again if you missed it. Essau ends that exchange by asking Jacob if he knows how much he wants to kill him. Great moment because what the fuck are they that they can't????? He tells them he's gonna have to find a loophole.

Ok so skip to the end and- Essau IS fugazi Locke (sorry to be mostly just restating what happened- but judging from above posts a lot of people were missing this). He has found his loophole. And in a great moment of turnabout easily manipulates Ben into murdering Jacob. His loophole- Ben shouldn't be on the island he doesn't belong there. Although it could also be that Locke is dead and Ben is exiled so there is no "leader". I'm hoping they explain this a bit better next season.

But we spent the episode via flashbacks seeing Jacob showing up to visit his children at crucial moments in there life. They would seem to be his pawn pieces in this chess game or at least the side hes betting on in the ongoing battle with his brother. He has positioned his pieces (our main characters) to continue the fight without him.

Maybe. I like it, whatever it is. Very fun finale. Can't wait for the last season.

Bummer bout Juliette. She was really among my favorites- although we called that she was toast by the end of the episode half hour in. And when there was her flashback w/o Jacob it was a done deal for her!

ah the LOST off-season. How exciting and disappointing at the same time, maybe I'll read a book or two.

(y) informative, thanks.

[nodanaonlyzuul]

I finally got to watch it. Although the Kate/Sawyer/Juliette/Jack love rectangle thing is kind of irritating, I really liked it otherwise.

SPOILER ALERT***********


Jacob is kind of hot.

Also, my mind was a little bit blown once they showed John Locke's body.

Especially when I thought back to when they showed fake John tell Richard to approach real John to tell him he needs to bring everyone back to the island, etc. Except Richard didn't know fake John was fake.

I'm excited to see what they do for the final season. (!)(y)

[BBboy20]

Jacob is kind of hot.He was on the season finale of CSI as well.

[Nuzzolese]

Jacob is kind of hot.



I also liked it apart from the love triangle. But I can't find Jacob hot, I only think of him in Dexter.

[Echewta]

Plus his name is Jacob. I mean Jacob? Come on...

[b i o n i c]

did they eat the fat guy yet?

[Burnout18]

I thought richard alpert was in control,,, clearly he is not.

[Echewta]

Ra and Ammut. Intersting to read up on them and how it relates to LOST as a possible theory. I looked at other boards and some believe that as well.

I think the show has given us enough clues at this point to conclude that the Man in Black probably represents Apep (aka the smoke monster), the Egyptian deification of evil and “Eater of Souls”. He is a counter to Jacob who represents the Egyptian deification of Ra, the Egyptian god of good/light. The producers have confirmed that Jacob represents good, and Apep often was depicted as a dark serpent (sounds a lot like the snake-like smoke monster to me).



When Apep (aka Smokey) has a confrontation with a character, it does not represent a judgment of that character’s virtue. Rather, Apep is consuming (or eating) their soul, and absorbing their experiences. If the character has value in Apep’s grand plan to defeat Jacob/Ra (e.g. Locke in Season 1, Ben in Season 5), the character lives. If not (e.g. Eko, the French people), Apep kills them because they are of no use to him.



Because Apep has previously consumed Locke’s soul, he has access to the collective memories/experiences that Locke did. This is why “Locke” is able to reminisce with Ben about their first meeting in the Hatch. Because Apep has previously consumed Ben’s soul, he knows exactly what buttons to push to make Ben kill Jacob.



There are no shades of gray in the Jacob/Apep conflict, and there is no moral ambiguity. As Locke told Walt in the Backgammon game, “There are two sides.” One is black. One is white. One represents destiny and one represents free will. One represents good and one represents evil. Etc, etc, etc. This war between Jacob/Ra and Apep will be the crux of Season 6.



The poster meant Ammut, not Apep.

[checkyourprez]

very very interesting.

so everyone is a pawn in a massive good vs. evil plot?



and still that leaves much to think of in regards to charles. is he just a pawn as well?

[kaiser soze]

I can't believe they voted off Coach

(n)

[Bob]

so i'm guessing the "loophole" refers to the fact that for whatever reason, whats his name isn't allowed to actually kill jacob, so the loophole is that he gets someone else to do it for him.

i wonder what he meant when he said "they're coming"

[mathcart]

i wonder what he meant when he said "they're coming"

all of "Jacob's children" are coming back to continue Jacob's fight with his brother, ie the 1977 people are coming. maybe. seems to be what he was saying. unless of course its something else. which is entirely possible!

[checkyourprez]

all of "Jacob's children" are coming back to continue Jacob's fight with his brother, ie the 1977 people are coming. maybe. seems to be what he was saying. unless of course its something else. which is entirely possible!

so "the others" are really good guys and jacobs people? considering they purge the island of darma'ers.

[roosta]

great episode.

although, its slightly annoying they are writing in a NEW mythology/thread to the show with jacob and his enemy...i prefered it when it was ben and widmore fighting for the island.

it is all terribly exciting though.

[destructo]

two words.

holy shit!

[Guy Incognito]

well - avoided this thread for 5 days , got all excited, watched episodes, got really confused and now there are too many things i am perplexed about i actually have nothing to say except for kates arse looked great in those jeans.

Actually, I do have something to say -3 things

If locke isnt locke then its fairly feasible that jacob isnt jacob, he didnt put up much of a fight did he.

the spanish richard said was "he who protects and saves us" , i think

if thats not locke how did whoever know that ben killed locke?

[HAL 9000]

Really enjoyed that episode, but it is almost impossible to guess what will happen next because of the large numbers of complete unknowns.

Here are some things I thing are true about the ‘anti-Jacob’. Although I could be wrong

He is the smoke monster and has the ability to replicate the form of anyone it encounters including those who have died, but not been buried on the island. This explains why the Others are so insistent on burying their dead. The smoke monster has generally appeared shortly after someone has died. It uses the forms of the dead to manipulate people.

It initially tried to use Eko for its purposes (whatever they are) but decided he was unsuitable and killed him. In the end it used Locke. In both cases (Locke and Eko) it tricked them into thinking they had some communion with the island and that they were special. But Locke is not special he is just being manipulated by the Anti-Jacob/the Smoke monster. As pointed out above, this was seen best when it turns out to be fake Locke who told Alpert to give the return to the island and die mission to Real Locke. We also saw Alpert comment that he did not think that Locke had any particular ability.

Other manifestations of the Anti-Jacob/Smoke monster include Christian Shepherd and the entity that has appeared in Jacobs cabin which is not Jacob at all. Also Walt when he convinced Locke to keep going after he had been shot. Also Rousseaus team when they had the sickness – the Dave character that haunted Hurley – maybe others too.

I personally think that the bomb did not change anything but really don’t know. There are a lot of unanswered questions about the period after the incident which would be rendered meaningless if the bomb changed things. In particular, I am interested to know why Eloise and Charles were so keen to protect a particular timeline. Also Pierre Chang lost his arm in the incident which he also did in the original timeline so things seem to have been playing out as they always had until the point of bomb detonation.

The big question for me is what is it that the Anti Locke found a loophole to? Is it a rule about who can kill Jacob (ie only leaders of the others can do it) or is it a time travel rule, ie like the time paradox that prevented Ben, Eloise and Charles from dying, is a similar paradox protecting Jacob? One can not do much more than speculate as we don’t have enough info to draw anything from really.

[HAL 9000]

OK I have a theory now – having thought about it.

I was trying to work out how powerful the bomb would be – ie if it would have killed Hurley and Jack etc on the surface.

The key thing to remember is that it was not the full fusion bomb that they used but the Fission Trigger. The basic H bomb (aka Neutron bomb) design is to have a fission reaction (using plutonium or uranium) go off inside a load of hydrogen based compound. The heat and neutrons from the fission reaction start a fusion reaction in the hydrogen compound which converts its mass to energy according to e = mc2 and makes a big hole in the ground.

The early nukes used by the US were fission only and were quite a bit bigger than that carried by Sayid, Hiroshima’s Little Boy bomb contained 64 kg of uranium and also had about 4 tonnes of detonation machinery.

The bomb carried by the Lost guys must have been a lot smaller than that – although I cant find any info on exactly how powerful, it is conceivable that those above ground would have survived the blast if the hole was quite deep (which it was).

Here is the good bit. Fission bombs are really really dirty and nasty things, loads of radiation. So the bottom of the hole would be very radioactive indeed for a very long time. This would explain a few things:

1)the swan station having loads of concrete sealing off an area “like Chernobyl”
2)the fact that the occupiers of the swan would not go outside without radiation suits in the early series
3)Richard Alpert’s comments that ‘I watched your friends die’ ie they all got radiation sickness.

So I think series 6 will find the Losties dying of radiation poisoning having just caused (rather than prevented) the incident – while the Dharma guys will push ahead with the swan project under radsinski’s leadership until they are all killed in the purge.

[Tzar]

^ sounds good.

did they ever solve adam and eve? that's probably the only thing i've got a ? next to. everything is else pretty clear to me.

what a beast of a tv show. i love the fact that i cannot explain what's happened since season 1 (which was when all of my mates stopped watching). you just cannot explain it in the space of a minute. i love that. i feel like this tv show is mine and mine alone.

[HAL 9000]

That’s what I love about it too. I have a friend who is planning to wait until it is over and then just watch the whole lot. In many ways that would be better because you don’t have to wait between series, but half the fun is trying to work out where the plot is going next.

The Adam and Eve thing has not been answered – it is likely to be pretty core to the end of this story. I heard a podcast where one of the writers said something like “ A lot of people ask if we make it all up as we go along, that is part of the reason we put Adam and Eve in the beginning of the show, because when you get to the end, you will realise we had it planned from the start.”

I suppose it now seems plausible that they could be Jacob and the Anti-Jacob but it could be anyone really. I think they were supposed to be 50 years old though which suggests we may not be done with the time travelling.

[Bob]

what a beast of a tv show. i love the fact that i cannot explain what's happened since season 1 (which was when all of my mates stopped watching). you just cannot explain it in the space of a minute.

you almost can (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZErJDc6978)



The Adam and Eve thing has not been answered – it is likely to be pretty core to the end of this story. I heard a podcast where one of the writers said something like “ A lot of people ask if we make it all up as we go along, that is part of the reason we put Adam and Eve in the beginning of the show, because when you get to the end, you will realise we had it planned from the start.”

what is the adam and eve thing? i can't remember anything about that...



The big question for me is what is it that the Anti Locke found a loophole to? Is it a rule about who can kill Jacob (ie only leaders of the others can do it) or is it a time travel rule, ie like the time paradox that prevented Ben, Eloise and Charles from dying, is a similar paradox protecting Jacob? One can not do much more than speculate as we don’t have enough info to draw anything from really.

i posted it above, but my theory is that the rule is that the anti-jacob can't kill jacob (some kind of cosmic balance thing, i don't know), so the loophole is that he manipulated somebody else into doing it. although i don't know why it would have taken him hundreds of years to figure it out.

it would kind of be a fitting way for him to do it though - in the first scene of the first episode, he's arguing with jacob about humans, saying that all they do is corrupt and destroy, and jacob is saying no, they're good, so it would be fitting for him to kill jacob by corrupting a human and having him do it of his own free will.

[HAL 9000]

what is the adam and eve thing? i can't remember anything about that...



When they first arrived on the island and were still looking for shelter until they got rescued, they found two corpses in a cave. They had on them a bag containing two stones - a white one and a black one. Locke named them Adam and eve (although I don’t think it ever specified their gender) and said he thought they were about 50 years old.

Your loophole idea makes a lot of sense. There may be some rules about who can be killed by who(remember Ben saying that Alex could not be killed because it would break 'the rules').

[Guy Incognito]

tzar put it right, its the most exciting prog for years.

franks story is gonna be a light shedder - how was the pilot for that plane?
what is he a candidate for?
all these bible references are all very well and good but i think its all a red herring. Lost has never been that predictable.
those two jewel thieves who were buried alive in series 3(or4 i forget), could they be adam and eve? I still think there's more to that story than just a filler episode
WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS IN THAT GUITAR CASE?

[roosta]

adam and eve = bernard and rose

[Guy Incognito]

adam and eve = bernard and rose

thats a fair shout, that was about the only question i had that was answered last night, i thought they had been forgotten about.

[checkyourprez]

it was cool vincent was still running around.


i want to know who this other army of people is?

[Bob]

i'm curious about them too - weren't they also the people that dragged miles into the van and told him not to go to the island (or something, i forget what they told him) and asked him about the shadow of the statue? are they time travelers too? i can't remember

[Echewta]

I saw Charlie today at work. I've seen Sayid, Ecko, Locke, Linus, and Sawyer, and Jack before.

Notice I never see the chicks from that show? WTF??? Conspiracy?

[Tzar]

^ they all at the gym maintaining them blam-blam bootys.