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yeahwho
03-23-2009, 03:46 AM
From the Sunday March 22nd NYTimes, "Financial Policy Despair (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/23/opinion/23krugman.html?_r=1)"

And now Mr. Obama has apparently settled on a financial plan that, in essence, assumes that banks are fundamentally sound and that bankers know what they’re doing.

It’s as if the president were determined to confirm the growing perception that he and his economic team are out of touch, that their economic vision is clouded by excessively close ties to Wall Street. And by the time Mr. Obama realizes that he needs to change course, his political capital may be gone.

Let’s talk for a moment about the economics of the situation.

Right now, our economy is being dragged down by our dysfunctional financial system, which has been crippled by huge losses on mortgage-backed securities and other assets.

As economic historians can tell you, this is an old story, not that different from dozens of similar crises over the centuries. And there’s a time-honored procedure for dealing with the aftermath of widespread financial failure. It goes like this: the government secures confidence in the system by guaranteeing many (though not necessarily all) bank debts. At the same time, it takes temporary control of truly insolvent banks, in order to clean up their books.

That’s what Sweden did in the early 1990s. It’s also what we ourselves did after the savings and loan debacle of the Reagan years. And there’s no reason we can’t do the same thing now.

But the Obama administration, like the Bush administration, apparently wants an easier way out. The common element to the Paulson and Geithner plans is the insistence that the bad assets on banks’ books are really worth much, much more than anyone is currently willing to pay for them. In fact, their true value is so high that if they were properly priced, banks wouldn’t be in trouble.

In essence what Krugman is saying is Obama is trying to roll the dice on old policy, rather than actually take over the banks until they are solvent. The Obama plan is to let the market (which was and probably will continue to be oblivious) decide how the outcome will be.

I have to agree, it is a situation where those who have handled our money have not, will not and really have no reason to change their behavior. Drastic action now is needed as he says in his article,

But the Geithner scheme would offer a one-way bet: if asset values go up, the investors profit, but if they go down, the investors can walk away from their debt. So this isn’t really about letting markets work. It’s just an indirect, disguised way to subsidize purchases of bad assets.

The likely cost to taxpayers aside, there’s something strange going on here. By my count, this is the third time Obama administration officials have floated a scheme that is essentially a rehash of the Paulson plan, each time adding a new set of bells and whistles and claiming that they’re doing something completely different. This is starting to look obsessive.

But the real problem with this plan is that it won’t work. Yes, troubled assets may be somewhat undervalued. But the fact is that financial executives literally bet their banks on the belief that there was no housing bubble, and the related belief that unprecedented levels of household debt were no problem. They lost that bet. And no amount of financial hocus-pocus — for that is what the Geithner plan amounts to — will change that fact.

You might say, why not try the plan and see what happens? One answer is that time is wasting: every month that we fail to come to grips with the economic crisis another 600,000 jobs are lost.

Even more important, however, is the way Mr. Obama is squandering his credibility. If this plan fails — as it almost surely will — it’s unlikely that he’ll be able to persuade Congress to come up with more funds to do what he should have done in the first place.

All is not lost: the public wants Mr. Obama to succeed, which means that he can still rescue his bank rescue plan. But time is running out.

I believe this is all very true, how about you?

RobMoney$
03-23-2009, 05:29 AM
The Obama plan is to let the market (which was and probably will continue to be oblivious) decide how the outcome will be.

So what you're trying to say is that Obama believes the market will correct itself? Interesting.


If someone can't see how much better off we are with him running our country than you have something wrong with you. They guy is so smart and well spoken its night and day (no black/white joke intended) from where we were.

Documad
03-23-2009, 06:49 AM
I can't sum up my feelings about this right now -- my thoughts are too disordered. My gut reaction is that we're making some big mistakes now. I'm not comfortable that Obama seems to be following the de-regulators who helped to get us in this mess. And I don't mean Bush's guys, I mean Clinton's guys. I have never liked Clinton's guys. But this is all part of why Obama was never really MY guy. He's a good guy, but it's no surprise that when the presidency costs so much money, the guy or gal who gets the job will be in bed with some people I don't like. Plus who do you put on the job when you take over in the middle of a crisis? I suppose you have to hire people with experience, because we don't have time for people to learn on the job.

And, Obama has to pretend that he knows what he's doing to inspire confidence. He has to say that he's going to stand behind his people and what they're doing.

I don't know. :(

yeahwho
03-23-2009, 07:24 AM
So what you're trying to say is that Obama believes the market will correct itself? Interesting.


Not really what I'm saying or Krugman, what I'm thinking and what many economists are thinking is the market is in withdrawals, sick, unable to correct itself and that we are in denial thinking these plans of free cash will change anything.... in essence how many times do we want to bailout large financial organizations... while 600,000 people a month lose their jobs?

If someone can't see how much better off we are with him running our country than you have something wrong with you. They guy is so smart and well spoken its night and day (no black/white joke intended) from where we were.

Not too sure what any of that means, but all of this is conjecture, a leaked plan that has yet to be revealed... he actually hasn't spoke any specifics as to what is going to be implemented.

yeahwho
03-23-2009, 07:28 AM
I can't sum up my feelings about this right now -- my thoughts are too disordered. My gut reaction is that we're making some big mistakes now. I'm not comfortable that Obama seems to be following the de-regulators who helped to get us in this mess. And I don't mean Bush's guys, I mean Clinton's guys. I have never liked Clinton's guys. But this is all part of why Obama was never really MY guy. He's a good guy, but it's no surprise that when the presidency costs so much money, the guy or gal who gets the job will be in bed with some people I don't like. Plus who do you put on the job when you take over in the middle of a crisis? I suppose you have to hire people with experience, because we don't have time for people to learn on the job.

And, Obama has to pretend that he knows what he's doing to inspire confidence. He has to say that he's going to stand behind his people and what they're doing.

I don't know. :(

This is why I cannot figure out why Joe Stiglitz is not in the picture, he has been entirely brilliant and on-point throughout this whole economic nightmare. What I'm seeing is perhaps a isolation or bunker style mentality, when it really needs to be an open dialogue with some of our nations top economists.

DroppinScience
03-23-2009, 11:23 AM
I do think Obama dropped the ball by appointing Geithner as Treasury Secretary because, afterall, he's been with the de-regulators for some years.

NY Times shot "friendly fire" editorials at Obama on Sunday and I think they're on point that the Obama administration needs to re-think their economic plans.

yeahwho
03-23-2009, 03:52 PM
I do think Obama dropped the ball by appointing Geithner as Treasury Secretary because, afterall, he's been with the de-regulators for some years.

NY Times shot "friendly fire" editorials at Obama on Sunday and I think they're on point that the Obama administration needs to re-think their economic plans.

From "The Great of Crash 1929" by John Kenneth Galbraith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kenneth_Galbraith),

If the underlying assets are fundamentally sound, and it's only a matter of buoying investor confidence, then this strategy works. However, if investors have realized the assets are worthless, the person who keeps buying in hopes of propping up the price, rides the wave all the way to the bottom.

Galbraith continues:

"Men have been swindled by other men on many occasions. The autumn of 1929 was, perhaps, the first occasion when men succeeded on a large scale in swindling themselves."

yeahwho
03-24-2009, 05:01 PM
I do not think Paul Krugman's opinion is the best answer to our problems, what is I'm not too sure but I think fundamentally the US economy accelerated itself into failure during the Clinton years through international laws which provided very little protections to the average US citizen... meaning all incentive for manufacturing here is gone, completely. (and that is just the tip of the iceberg on that topic)

Anyway back to the topic at hand, I actually do think Krugman is onto something and it looks like eventually his idea of government controlling the assets of failing financial institutions has to happen.

This is why Geithner is seeking more power (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur9lEgcO_Y8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com%2Fnwshp%3Fhl%3De n%26tab%3Dwn&feature=player_embedded) to take over failing institutions.

It is on, it is on right now

saz
03-25-2009, 03:13 PM
see rob, i told you that obama was another bland centrist.

krugman is correct. at least though obama is a smart guy and may wake up and alter his bank rescue plan.