Hooray For Freedom! Iraq to Start Executing Homosexuals!

[kaiser soze]

Looks like the blood won't stop spilling in our beloved playground Iraq. Saddam's evil was replaced with just more evil. This is Freedom on the march, this is more of bush's failed legacy. Thousands of U.S. and allied soldiers dead, Millions of innocent lives destroyed. Billions of dollars wasted.

No freedom, no democracy, no peace, just more hate, pain, death, and war crimes! Oh and the same shit Iran and Saudi Arabia do to their people.

Mission Accomplished! Let the religious right rejoice!

http://pageoneq.com/stories/iraq03302008.html

LONDON, March 30, 2009 – Ground Zero for the so-called 'war on terror' is a nation where gays and lesbians live in real terror every day. Among the suffering of gay Iraqis is the regular threat (and carrying out) of rape and murder. In July, CNN reported on the case of a young gay man abducted for ransom and raped daily for more than two weeks.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/03/iraq-to-execute-gays-in-batches.html

http://www.tips-q.com/news/msm/783127-iraqi-government-executing-lgbt-people

[RobMoney$]

So you were expecting GWB to change an entire culture of barbaric leadership in 5 years?

[Randetica]

that outing yourself to anyone thing is annoying anyway

[kaiser soze]

So you were expecting GWB to change an entire culture of barbaric leadership in 5 years?

Mission Accomplished right?

I will say it is actually going backwards, Iraq as a whole is a deadlier place than it was before bush's invasion, and the poppy fields in Afghanistan are blossoming again.

[checkyourprez]

So you were expecting GWB to change an entire culture of barbaric leadership in 5 years?


his (and his peoples) planning of the whole operation was terrible.

they were either grossly under prepared, or choose to ignore the obvious fundamental problems they would encounter from the cultural difficulties associated with taking a fractionated tribal society with a history of authoritarian rule and just plopping a democracy on them.


either one is an embarrassing failure that should not happen from people with those sort of resources running the most powerful country this planet has ever seen.

[Bob]

but we never had another terrorist attack so it was all worth it (and because of it; don't argue, you're not allowed)

[Whatitis]

From the initial post Kaiser is still drunk off the Bush era and I can't blame him for being so but the homosexual rule has not too much to do with it except for other arab rule being influenced into Iraqi law. Law under Hussein might have had an accecptance of homosexuality but shi'ite law, which consists of more than 60% of the people living in Iraq, totally despises it much like Iran and Saudi Arabia whom have the same laws against gays. The difference between Iraq law now and the Baathist regime is the people at least should have more of a legal system to defend themselves and not killed on the street from either Hussein's squad or the hard islam right wing like shi'ites and others who called it honor killings to weed out gays because Iraq didn't have those laws at the time. There was a law to criminalize homosexuality in 2001 under Hussein's rule. I'm not supporting the execution of gays, or anyone by any means, but feel it is important to give a broader scope than the sensationalistic "Bush created this" scheme.

[kaiser soze]

Well Saddam is now gone....this is happening under the United States Watch

The U.S. is responsible for keeping and providing support for the safety of the innocent in Iraq. I don't think many will give a shit though, the military is taking another swing at homosexuality within their ranks as of late.

8 years of a failed presidency and 6 years of a horribly executed war are nothing we should forget quickly

[checkyourprez]

Well Saddam is now gone....this is happening under the United States Watch

The U.S. is responsible for keeping and providing support for the safety of the innocent in Iraq. I don't think many will give a shit though, the military is taking another swing at homosexuality within their ranks as of late.

8 years of a failed presidency and 6 years of a horribly executed war are nothing we should forget quickly

i understand your plight, but everyone in the country (includding the US soldiers there to protect it) have the possibility of dieing at the hands of some fanatic; so to single out gays for savior at this point in their political development is a bit unrealistic.

how long did it take the United States, home of the bill of rights, and freedom and all that jazz to stop treating a lot of people like second class citizens? (and it would be debated by some people we still arent there, so do honestly except more from iraq at this point)

[saz]

but feel it is important to give a broader scope than the sensationalistic "Bush created this" scheme.

yeah, but bush ensured that karzai, a coporate tool, got into power in afghanistan, who has now passed one the most barbaric laws around.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6025362.ece

[Whatitis]

Agreed but once again there is much more to that than Bush. Granted Karzai has been in bed with the US since the Afgan/Soviet war but he was also very close with the taliban in the 90's. I am not supporting Bush on these topics all I'm saying is that Arab culture, which has been proven to be inhumane is some ways, trumps anything Bush did here.

[saz]

i sort of agree with you about bush. although karzai was supported by bush et al, the problem goes much further and deeper than dubya, just like our current economic woes.

also, i have to add that there is nothing wrong with "arab culture". the problem is with islamic fundamentalism, and religious extremism in general. throughout the tenure of bathist rule, particularly in the 70s and 80s, a very large and secular middle class emerged in iraq. ditto in iran under the shah, whose secular middle class was (and is still) also very sympathetic towards the west and western ideals. palestinians and lebanese are also predominantly very moderate, despite the presence and influence of hamas and hezbollah. don't forget too that syria, despite an authoritarian government, is also completely secular. a long time good friend of mine is palestinian and saudi arabia is viewed very poorly and as backwards by many throughout the region.

[checkyourprez]

^no doubt.

just as america should not be defined by christian evangelist fanatics who want to shot abortion doctors, the arab culture should not be defined by jihadist terrorists.

[Whatitis]

Don't get me wrong, "arab culture" might have been the wrong term to use but I was more talking about the extremist view hence some ways but ways that are still relevant in many arab laws.

[RobMoney$]

Well Saddam is now gone....


...and so is Bush.
Can't dismiss one and not dismiss the other.

[kaiser soze]

unfortunately there was supposed to be a fundamental difference between the two. By the looks of it there wasn't shit for difference.

bush did a heckuva job continuing Hussein's reign of terror (y)

[checkyourprez]

they can go move to vermont. problem solved.



but honestly to prioritize gay rights, over womans rights and every other citizens rights who are shit over there right now is just not realistic.

[checkyourprez]

this is an excerpt from an article im currently reading on cnn.com (rather good, biden is giving it to cheney for the most part, but this part applies to the thread)

The vice president said that he condemned a new Afghan law that would allow men to rape their wives, but that those issues were not the focus of the U.S. presence in that nation. "I am not prepared to send American troops to die for that," he said.


We have bigger problems than gay rights in Iraq. Just like we have bigger problems than womans rights in Afghanistan. There needs to be a stable society, before we can get to the rights of those groups. This is not to say they are unimportant, just that we have more pressing matters.