For The Fans?

[bigfatlove06]

I think so. I've read comments on this board about the boys suckering hard earned cash from their fans by re-releasing old material. I DO NOT claim to know anything about the music business, but my thoughts are...

The CYH 4xLP re-issue is $85. It is limited to 2,000 copies. So if all of the copies sell at that price the gross income is $175,000. I have no idea what the beasties make off of each copy sold, but (from my understanding) 10% is an absurdly high return for the artist. So let's multiply that by 5. If the boys earned 1/2 of the gross it would be $87,500 (around 30,000 per Beastie).

To assume that they earned 50% of everything would mean that the costs of production, plus the marketing (which includes the cost of the micro-site), plus royalties owed to other artists for samples, plus labor (the salaries and wages of anyone who was paid to help remaster, promote, etc... shit the people who did paperwork got paid something).... had a price tag of under $90,000.

Does anyone reading this really think that the motivating factor behind creating a 8' x 1' poster, or a limited 4 x LP remastered version of CYH was to make less than $90K.

I am not suggesting that they are not hoping for a huge return on investment. But that return is not dependent on screwing their fan base. The re-issues exist (IMHO) to reward the fan who wishes they had a DELUXE edition, and to create buzz for the new album.

I think (I have no way of knowing, and could be completely wrong) that the Beasties have a investment oriented, forward thinking marketing team, that decided LOSING money (or breaking even) was worth the potential return by being in the news, and creating a buzz on the scene.

And from my own point of view, I choose to believe that the 3 of them just discussed the possibilities and did it not only because it made good business sense, but FOR THE FANS.

[b i o n i c]

that makes sense to me

[Videodrome]

i'm sold.

[Micodin]

Cheers bigfatlove06.

Awesome post.

People like to whinge about being ripped off by their favorite artists and record companies all the time. They expect everything be free and on a silver platter because they consider themselves long term fans. It's nothing new.

I say, let them bitch. I'm happy with the remasters. I'm down with nice 8 foot posters and nice deluxe editions. It makes me happy to hear and see my favorite records get a nice revamped treatment.

People that want to bitch about the money... Let them bitch.

While they are complaining I'll have a smile on my face listening to Jimmy James and Shadrach in remastered sound.

[tjpop]

some good points. They are definitely foward thinking. And I think I have to get over the fact that the re-releases are for the next generation fans. Like these are Beastie Boys cds version 2.0.
It certainly makes sense. No shame to say I'm one of the bitch-ers, and the reason is because of the missed oportunities in my opinion while putting the re-releases out (not giving anything new or worthwhile). maybe version 3.0? :D

[mathcart]

well said sir...
(y)

[Kid Presentable]

Considering the zero buzz around Mix Up and the rapidly vanishing promo of TT5B, reissues seemed a pretty obvious choice to kickstart the 'Tadlock's' campaign.

[dirtydan11]

i was thinking the same thing, and it could only be a good thing (y)(y)

[Kid Presentable]

I will buy them all soon enough (the instro of the Prunes 'Sure Shot' on the IC reissue has me interested). I don't like the idea of ordering them from here, becuase people are saying it takes 7 weeks and the shits turn up all dusty and fucked. Yet I can't find them in shops, either. The AU Rolling Stone (it's the only magazine the wife and I can both read) rated PB reissue 5 stars, but it's not in stores.

[RobMoney$]

The CYH 4xLP re-issue is $85. It is limited to 2,000 copies. So if all of the copies sell at that price the gross income is $175,000. I have no idea what the beasties make off of each copy sold, but (from my understanding) 10% is an absurdly high return for the artist. So let's multiply that by 5. If the boys earned 1/2 of the gross it would be $87,500 (around 30,000 per Beastie).

Not sure I follow why you'd multiply by 5?

[bigfatlove06]

I multiplied by 5 because since I don't really know what their profit margin was I thought I would use an inflated number to show that even under the most ideal circumstances they couldn't have made any significant cash off of the limited releases.

[silence7]

Anyone feeling "Ripped Off" has the choice not to buy. Don't buy, and you will have no reason to feel that way. Nobody is forcing every Beastie fan to purchase anything they don't want.

It's not like they're saying it's all new material, then when you get it in the mail, WTF. this is just PB remastered? You know it's PB, or CYH re-mastered, you know what you're spending your money on. Either you DO want it, or you DON'T, there's no RIP-OFF..

[sureshot]

well said !!! and besides look how many songs there giving you on the check your head cd, and for that low price how can anyone think thats a rip off.

[Kid Presentable]

I'm impressed at the amount of obvious-stating going on.

[RobMoney$]

I already have all the CYH B-sides on CD from the original releases, I was only looking foward to the re-issue for the opportunity to have it all on vinyl. Apparently the B-sides arent included with the normal vinyl release, only the $102 special package.
So for me, it was either $102, or nothing. I gave in.

Thank You Beastie Boys.

[Micodin]

I'm impressed at the amount of obvious-stating going on.

Hey Kid,

I just noticed that Axl is really going at that microphone on your icon there.

It's a little disturbing. Heh.

Yes, there is some people are obvious-stating... But, I just take it as that they are happy too get their favorite records in a nice deluxe treatment.

I have all the vinyl from before LTI and up. But, it's still nice to get the nicey nice versions that they have been putting out. Plus, some of my records are getting worn a little thin from playing them out and whatnot. I don't mind dropping the cash.

Either way. Axl loves that microphone!

[Kid Presentable]

And on it goes.

[cj hood]

question is...if the reissues weren't the right venue to release the never-before-heard material...then what is the right vehicle?

[Rodie]

The vault? Hey a guy can dream right...

[Brother McDuff]

Either you DO want it, or you DON'T, there's no RIP-OFF..



Amen.

[samiam]

Brilliant post. For real.

re: PB - there is no way they can officially release any PB b-sides without running into major sample issues. unfortunately it is The Man keeping those tracks in the bag 'officially'.

[Kid Presentable]

Can somebody link me to a complaint of a 'rip off', regarding the Check Your Head reissue? I can't recall any, and it just seems like a lot of blustering in the hopes that the band is reading. Hence my remark about obvious-stating. Is it all because of what tjpop said? Surely you guys can't be that full of righteous indignation.

[RobMoney$]

This entire thread is based on nothing but speculation, just read the original post.
Nothing but assumptions from someone who admittedly knows nothing about what he was talking about.

A Pre-emptive rallying of the usual suspects I guess.

[b i o n i c]

they're already filthy rich and there are so many easier ways to make money with money.

even if they kept all of the 2000 copies x $85 ($170,000) and divided by 3 ($55,000 each), do you really think they did it for the money?

even if they made three times that amount, do you think they need it?

as a limited edition type thing, don;t these become more valuable over time for the people who bought them?

regardless rob - who cares anyway, right?

[bigfatlove06]

Can somebody link me to a complaint of a 'rip off', regarding the Check Your Head reissue? I can't recall any, and it just seems like a lot of blustering in the hopes that the band is reading. Hence my remark about obvious-stating. Is it all because of what tjpop said? Surely you guys can't be that full of righteous indignation.

The reason for the post was that I was sick of reading what I perceived to be negative comments from Rob (mainly) and others about repackaging the same old shit in a shiny new box to squeeze the last few nickles out of their poor fans.

KP perhaps I am nothing more than captain obvious here, but it was only meant to make a point that I had been considering in my own mind, and I couldn't care any less whether or not the band ever reads it. Not trying to create a controversy, just sharing my thoughts.

[Documad]

I hope they make as much money as possible off of this stuff. People steal so much from musicians now, I hope that musicians I like find a way to make some money.

I don't care how this comes across. Here's what I was thinking lately: I really appreciate that they make an effort now and then. I don't think they owe me anything except a good show when I pay my money to see them. But I like that they donate things to charity and I like that the charities then sell the stuff to fans. I got some cool stuff that way. I bought some cool mementos and some deserving charities got some money. I wish Beasties would do some more of that soon. I wish I'd bought the dolls when the ACLU was selling them. The only thing I need now are the dolls. :p

I like a lot of bands that make no effort at all. I still like the music those bands make, but it's nice when you like a band AND they make an effort. It's nice to listen to a band that doesn't embarrass you. I loved bringing my friends to the Obama thing. I know they didn't have anything to do with that art show but I thought that was cool too. Some artists made money by doing Beasties related art and some fans bought some one of a kind things. Win win.

[RobMoney$]

To assume the Beasties would have to pay for shit like marketing and salaries out of their "assumed" 10%, while Capitol kept 90% doesn't make much sense at all.

Also, to assume that the Beasties paid for all of that out of just the "Deluxe" package profits doesn't make much sense to me either.
Clearly they stand to make MUCH more from the standard re-issue CD & Vinyl than the 2000 limited "collectors" edition of just CYH.

I'm not complaining about the price of the CYH package really, I bought the CYH deluxe edition. Just this notion that we should be somehow grateful to line up just to have the opportunity to buy the shiny new package.
I mean give me a break with this great Benevolent Beastie Boys crap.

I'm dissappointed that I had to buy the deluxe CYH vinyl in order to get the entire package on Vinyl. If the b-sides were included in the regular vinyl package there's no way I would have spent the $102 for the big boy box.

[bigfatlove06]

This entire thread is based on nothing but speculation, just read the original post.
Nothing but assumptions from someone who admittedly knows nothing about what he was talking about.

A Pre-emptive rallying of the usual suspects I guess.

How much does one have to know about the music business to make the assumptions I made? Do you think any of the assumptions I made were illogical or unreasonable. If so, I would be interested in your reasoning. We all draw conclusions based on what is consistent with what we believe is true. For instance you hazard a guess as to the reason for my post. I am not certain what you mean by "A Pre-emptive rallying of the usual suspects", but if you mean my reason for the post was to let people on the board know why I think the beasties reissued their back catalog and that reason was because they wanted to do something cool for their fans then you are correct.

[RobMoney$]

The reason for the post was that I was sick of reading what I perceived to be negative comments from Rob (mainly)

So you wanted to make a thread with the contention that the Beasties are actually doing their fans a favor by offering them deluxe packaged re-issues, but you didn't want anyone to offer any differing opinions?

[bigfatlove06]

To assume the Beasties would have to pay for shit like marketing and salaries out of their "assumed" 10%, while Capitol kept 90% doesn't make much sense at all.



I never said that the beastie boys would pay all of those expenses OUT OF their 10% "profit". I was trying to say that artists do not usually get anywhere close to 10% profit after paying all of those expenses.

I also never implied that they justified the production of every format exclusively based on the sales of the deluxe editions. Quite the opposite. What I said was that the motivating factor for some of the more expensive items that many have been bitching about not being able to afford was to make them available to people who would really like to have them as opposed to some sort of cash grab. Furthermore, I mentioned that clearly they hoped to make money on the reissues, but that (IMO) them making that money didn't depend on them screwing their fans, rather it was based on them offering a product many of their fans were interested in purchasing.

What I wanted Rob was to make a point. Some agree, and some don't. I never said I didn't welcome your opinion. What I did say is that I posted to express my own opinion. What I also said is that I would be "interested in your reasoning."

Did you make the assumption that I only wanted to hear like minded opinions, or were you actually asking a question?

And no I did not suggest that they are "doing their fans a favor", only that they are giving the fans an opportunity to purchase products they would like to have. (Although I will say that for me personally I'm really happy that they are reissuing all of these albums in all of these formats because I enjoy collecting them, so from that perspective they have kind of done me a favor).

[RobMoney$]

How much does one have to know about the music business to make the assumptions I made? Do you think any of the assumptions I made were illogical or unreasonable. If so, I would be interested in your reasoning.

This is a strategy by the record label to get these new re-issues on the shelf so when the new album drops, oh by the way PB, CYH, and IC are also freshly available in remastered form for the average fan. At that point, these limited edition packages will have been long gone.

And I don't begruge them from doing what they're doing, just call it what it is though. Don't tell everyone how grateful we should be for their benevolence.


We all draw conclusions based on what is consistent with what we believe is true. For instance you hazard a guess as to the reason for my post. I am not certain what you mean by "A Pre-emptive rallying of the usual suspects", but if you mean my reason for the post was to let people on the board know why I think the beasties reissued their back catalog and that reason was because they wanted to do something cool for their fans then you are correct.

What "A pre-emptive rallying of the usual suspects" meant was that you suspected that I was going to respond negatively about the CYH big boy box (even though I haven't until today) and you thought you'd make an argument for how the band is actually doing the fans a favor by offering us deluxe packages, knowing you'd get the usual cheerleaders like Micodin to agree with you. (Thus the Capt. Obvious comment by Kid P.)

[Micodin]

knowing you'd get the usual cheerleaders like Micodin to agree with you.

Jeeze, what did I do?

[bigfatlove06]

If you believe I spent any time worrying about what your comments on the new release may be and subsequently decided to rally the support of the Beastie faithful in the forum your arrogance borders on idiocy.

I feel like I keep repeating myself, but here is the point. Sales generate revenue. Revenue is used to pay expenses. Whatever revenue is left is profit. A portion of the profits go to the artist. Artists generally earn less than 10% of the sale price of the recording. Even if they earned as much as 50% of the sale price of the limited editions, they would still make less than $90K. My point is almost exactly what you said when you talked about the sale of the other formats. That is where the money will be made, not in the high cost limited run items like the 4 x LP box set. So to me it stands to reason that the only reason to put a whole new production run together for such a nominal increase in revenue is to do it for the hard core fans who crave deluxe editions.

I never tried to tell anyone that they should be grateful for the collectors editions. I just told anyone who was reading my post that I was grateful to them for putting out such cool shit. Your assumption that I feel like it's necessary for anyone else to feel the same way about it for my opinion to be validated is a you problem.

I honestly believe that you are bright enough to not have so grossly misconstrued my comments, so I will assume that you just enjoy bickering.

[Kid Presentable]

The reason for the post was that I was sick of reading what I perceived to be negative comments from Rob (mainly) and others about repackaging the same old shit in a shiny new box to squeeze the last few nickles out of their poor fans.

KP perhaps I am nothing more than captain obvious here, but it was only meant to make a point that I had been considering in my own mind, and I couldn't care any less whether or not the band ever reads it. Not trying to create a controversy, just sharing my thoughts.

It's cool man. (y)

[Brother McDuff]

I see where you're comin from BigFatLove. There has been a whole lotta downtalk about the so-called rip-off or some absurd injustice regarding the re-issues as of late. Anyone who hasn't noticed it is either one of it's proprietors or has their head up their ass. The whining is ridiculous.


Rob, your whole steez is getting tired as hell. Does it really always have to be negative? You raise some decent points here and there, but the fact that you make a point to rain on everybody's parade and play devil's advocate with absolutely everything really compromises your validity.

[dirtydan11]

What's gotten everyone's asses so tight? I swear sometimes some of these threads end up sounding like a big trekkie arguement.. it's kind of embarrassing guys. Take a couple seconds to re-read the whole thread and see what i mean. if i'm out of line i'm sorry but i just woke up and read this. TWO PAGES !!! hahaha where's my coffee

[RobMoney$]

If you believe I spent any time worrying about what your comments on the new release may be and subsequently decided to rally the support of the Beastie faithful in the forum your arrogance borders on idiocy.

I feel like I keep repeating myself, but here is the point. Sales generate revenue. Revenue is used to pay expenses. Whatever revenue is left is profit. A portion of the profits go to the artist. Artists generally earn less than 10% of the sale price of the recording. Even if they earned as much as 50% of the sale price of the limited editions, they would still make less than $90K. My point is almost exactly what you said when you talked about the sale of the other formats. That is where the money will be made, not in the high cost limited run items like the 4 x LP box set. So to me it stands to reason that the only reason to put a whole new production run together for such a nominal increase in revenue is to do it for the hard core fans who crave deluxe editions.

I never tried to tell anyone that they should be grateful for the collectors editions. I just told anyone who was reading my post that I was grateful to them for putting out such cool shit. Your assumption that I feel like it's necessary for anyone else to feel the same way about it for my opinion to be validated is a you problem.

I honestly believe that you are bright enough to not have so grossly misconstrued my comments, so I will assume that you just enjoy bickering.


No, I'm not that bright then because I totally misunderstood your entire premise in your original post. That's why I asked you about why you'd multiply by 5. My bad.
But to be fair, you really didn't communicate your point that well until now.

I still don't believe they're losing money, or coming anywhere close to breaking even in the name of "brand" recognizition for the upcoming new album. They may not be making a lot on the actual limited edition vinyls, but the regular editions will be a cash cow.
And god bless them, I hope they make a mint. I'm not begrudging them sucess. I hope the re-issues go to #1 on all the album sales charts.
My only beef is the part where we're supposed to be grateful for spending $102 literally for a shiny new box.

[bigfatlove06]

I reread my original post, and I can see how you interpreted it the way you did. So that's on me for not being clear enough.

And while I am admitting faults, I will also say that although my intention was to try to say that they were not making much (relatively speaking) on the limited editions I didn't specify that I meant on solely the limited editions, and I agree with you that if all of the remasters in all of the available formats were not expected to make money then neither the Beastie Boys nor Capitol would have ever considered the project out of the kindness of their hearts.

It's not up to me to say whether anyone other than myself SHOULD be grateful for an opportunity to purchase the box set (I could not give a shit less about the 8' x 1' poster and don't honestly think I would spend $20 on it)... I just wanted to say I think its cool that they make those kinds of things available for people who want them.

BTW, you are pretty bright and you know it.

[Pootytang]

Do I sense a Bromance?

[bigfatlove06]

Let's Hug It Out, Bitch.

[Rodie]

The real tragedy here is that Licensed To Ill won't get the same remaster treatment and it arguably needs it even more than Paul's Boutique did!

[Digby]

The free downloads make it worth it. Nice gesture. I just listened to the Paul's Boutique one and it was definitely worth my time. I don't know what the market is for reissues but I imagine it ain't much. The commmentary was as good as getting a new album. I haven't listened to the Check Your Head one yet but looking forward to it.

[dave790]

I'm dissappointed that I had to buy the deluxe CYH vinyl in order to get the entire package on Vinyl. If the b-sides were included in the regular vinyl package there's no way I would have spent the $102 for the big boy box.

That's a fair point. The b-sides should be on the standard vinyl release. If they're on the double CD, then why not put them onto the vinyl too? The only reason I can think of is to encourage the $120 or whatever deluxe package top be bought, though I suppose it makes it more of a one-off/rarity/collectors item. In your case I think it sucks you had to spend that much just for a vinyl which could have easily been released by itself, though hey, you've got one of 2000 and I bet it looks nice. So it sort of serves it's purpose. Geez there's a lot of contradictions.

[Brother McDuff]

The real tragedy here is that Licensed To Ill won't get the same remaster treatment and it arguably needs it even more than Paul's Boutique did!



Paul's Boutique definitely needed it far far more than Licensed to Ill. LTI actually stands the sonic test of time pretty well. PB, on the other hand, was sub-par even for it's own time.

[sab0tage]

(I could not give a shit less about the 8' x 1' poster and don't honestly think I would spend $20 on it)

I got the poster and it is well worth the money - nice and glossy (and only 400 made by the looks of the handwriting on the bottom of mine)

[nypb]

Nevermind the re-issues, they still owe me $8 for my Grand Royal subscription!

I think these re-releases are nice for the fans and collectors. I have all of the CYH B-sides as it's already been stated. I've probably purchased LTI 2-3x on cassette back in the day. PB on cassette and CD. I don't need to buy anything new to flesh out my collection. (y)