I wonder if it's possible to file a law suit

[ericlee]

Against the company you're working for fires you if you don't comply with a new rule and technically, it's illegal to enforce this new rule.

The said new rule isn't in our SOP and it will never be.

The company I work for has a car service hired to pick up employees from our company. The car service is a company of its own and they park outside on a public street in front of our building, waiting for the employees.

We, just regular security guards with no power to tell anybody off of our property what to do are now told to tell the car service drivers to stay in their vehicles, even if they are parked on public property.

If we don't enforce this, our jobs get threatened. So, I'm wondering if I get fired for not complying with some ficticious rule, that's not even in our job description, could there be a possibility of a law suit? I've never been fired from a job, have an assload of oustanding references. Shit, I wouldn't mind not working for the rest of my life.

[Videodrome]

it depends on if NY is an "at will" state or not.

[ericlee]

it depends on if NY is an "at will" state or not.

Eh, call me dumb but I'm not sure what at will means.

Also let me clear the regular security guard part. We are a bit more than regular gurads but we're not law enforcement and we have no power to tell anyone anything when they're on public property. That's a cop's job.

[Videodrome]

a state that is "at will" can terminate an employee without reason. ohio is an "at will" state. this is more a BOB question than it is for me. ask him when he is drunk.

[ericlee]

if it is an at will place or not, the only reason they'd fire me is because of this.

I've never been written up, always on time and always have good compliments.

Everyone they've fired had reason that I know of.

[Bob]

DISCLAIMER: NONE OF THIS IS LEGAL ADVICE BECAUSE I'M NOT A LAWYER AND I'M NOT ALLOWED TO GIVE LEGAL ADVICE AND IF I DO THAT AND THE LAW GODS FIND OUT ABOUT IT I WON'T BE ALLOWED TO BE A LAWYER SO THIS ISN'T LEGAL ADVICE

that said, here's what i know

every state except for montana is an at-will state, meaning, with some exception, you can be fired for any or no reason at all. so unless you have a contract that says something like "you can't be fired except for just cause" or "you will be employed until [some definite date]" your employer could come into work tomorrow and say "eric, you're fired, go home" and you could say "why?" and he could say "shut up" and that would be that.

there are exceptions though. it's different from state to state but i seem to remember something about it being illegal to fire someone for refusing to do something illegal. so if your employer is asking you to do something illegal, he can't legally fire you for refusing to do it. i think

you should ask a real lawyer, though. i'm not one. that's why i didn't bill you

[RobMoney$]

I was a teamster organizer at my previous job.
I'm familiar with the term "at will."

"At Will" means you serve "at the will" of the company.
In other words, they can fire you, or you can quit for that matter, for no other reason than because the company or you "will it."

...and although laws vary from state to state, NY along with everywhere else in the US are "At Will" states.

There are some exceptions to a company firing you without reason, or for an arbitrary or unfair reason. For example they can't fire you because of your race, gender, sexual preference, blah, blah, blah...BUT, they can fire you for something as silly as being 5 minutes late, or they can say you dropped a piece of paper out of your pocket and they consider it litter.
So yeah, they can fire you for not following their rule.

More importantly though, if they fire you for disobeying the rule and you apply for Unemployment, you could be denied.
You will be asked if you were aware of the rule, and if you intentionally disobeyed it. If you did, it'll look like the company fired you for just cause and you'll be denied.

[NoFenders]

I was a teamster organizer at my previous job.


What fell off the truck? ;-)

[Bob]

So yeah, they can fire you for not following their rule.



there are exceptions for refusing to commit crimes, though (i checked my employment law outline). it's different from state to state, and i don't know how new york handles the rule (if it has it, but it probably does), and i don't know just how illegal the thing that they're asking you to do has to be, but it is generally unlawful to fire an at-will employee for refusing to commit a crime (and in some states, for refusing to commit a tort or some breach of professional conduct).

but of course, even though it's (possibly) illegal, there's nothing actually physically stopping your boss from saying "eric i told you to keep that guy in his car, you're done here." you'd have to sue him. and i can't remember if you get your job back if you win (not that it would be any fun coming back). so you know, check with a real lawyer and junk

[Bob]

i did a very minor amount of research and it turns out new york is one of the 8 states that doesn't have the rule. so i guess you might be out of luck. still, might be worth asking a lawyer about

[yeahwho]

Unless this job is really important to you, (meaning it is a career you want from now until retirement) I wouldn't start to go into a litigious mode over a rule that does not appear on the surface to physically harm you or cause an irreversible health issue.

If they want you to tell drivers to block public streets that is now the drivers problem, they know the law too. I see no real cash award in this and nothing but frustration. Just drop a dime anonymously on the company and have the NYPD parking enforcement be aware of the situation. ( i know in NYC that means take a number get in line)

I'm in a Union and we have about 330 employees at my job sites, I would say at any given time 4-5 of these employees have an attorney on a case and maybe only one to two of the cases are actual cash award cases while the rest are just guys who are fucked up and need to be in a litigious mode at all times.

The average case lasts 2-4 years and some even more. The only cases that make any money are the ones that cause irreversible physical harm.

[Bob]

yeah that's another good point; there usually isn't very much money involved in these kinds of things so it can be hard to find a lawyer to take the case. it would be prohibitively expensive to hire a lawyer on an hourly basis, and most of these cases involve so little money that it isn't worth it for a lawyer to take it on a contingency basis. some states have government agencies that handle these kinds of things (i'm currently interning for one) but it's a slow bureaucratic process and if they're overburdened, they might not take your case, and even if they do, you aren't technically their client so they don't really have to do anything you tell them to do

basically, you know what employment law is? gettin fucked

[ericlee]

thanks for the input. As much as it pisses me off, I suppose I'll have to be the sheep boy they want me to be and do as told. In the meantime I'll just start job hunting.

[ericlee]

Also the job isn't really that important. It's the first job I've had since I've been back in the states and I stuck it out for 3 years.

There's no benefits or retirement here. Just a decent paycheck and they use it to their advantage.

Thing is, I've worn a badge before- corrections and I was fully aware of the job and was never asked to do anything outside of the SOP. This is frustrating.

Also as said, we're forced to imply a rule that doesn't even exist in our rule book.

[Helvete]

Is the term SOP used outside of the military? Anyway, I'm not exactly sure how the works laws in the differ to over here, but I'm sure we get a few more rights when it comes to being fired. Although if you've worked at a place less than a certain time (11 months or something) they can give you 1 weeks notice and you'll be out for no reason. The longer you stay at a place then the more notice and pay off you get I think.

But Eric, apart from this rule which they are bringing in, they've no other reason to have a problem with your work? All I'd do in the situation, is inform the drivers my orders, and tell them they can do what they want with that information, if they decide to disobey, then any backlash would be on them and I'd say that they'd been told. Don't bother going out of your way to try and reprimand the drivers, but simply tell them the policy. You cannot physically make them do it, or impose anything on them, so surely this rule is no more than a verbal thing? Just I don't see how you are being 'forced' to make them do anything.

[ericlee]

I got into a pretty heated discussion last night over it and was told that I will do what I'm told- or else, no job.

I wasn't actually told, it was basically yelled at me.

That's pretty forceful.

[Documad]

I can't and won't give you legal advice -- just common sense advice. The fact scenario doesn't make any sense to me. I don't see what is even potentially illegal. Your company has a contractor who provides cars and drivers and they drivers park their cars on the street near your building and then they get out of their cars and loiter around, but your company (the customer in this scenario) wants you to ask the drivers to stay in their cars instead of loitering around outside the building? Is that the scenario? Sounds appropriate to me. Unless your employer told you to shoot them in the head if they refuse. Even if it's not appropriate or nice or not within your legal power to enforce, there's nothing wrong with your company asking its contractor to do something it wants its contractor to do.

The short answer is that any fool with $500 can file a lawsuit. That doesn't mean it has merit. That doesn't mean that you would get anything out of it.

As others explained (good answers guys), your employer can usually fire you for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all, unless you have a special contract (usually because you're in a union or you're a hollywood actor or someone else with bargaining power). Sometimes you also get that special status because you're a veteran, but that's usually true if you work for a public employer, not a private employer. Your employer can't fire you for being black or being a woman or being old. In some of the better states they can't fire you for being gay or transexual. But they can fire you for pretty much any other reason. I don't know anything about your state's whistleblower laws. But I can't imagine any state's laws fitting the driver loitering scenario.

[ericlee]

There is no law stating that the cabbies have to stay in their vehicles. It is not a NY law.

Yet, here we are making it one. Off of our property and on NYC's property.

[ericlee]

These drivers are just standing next to their cars, while on public property. That's it.

Loitering or whatever the case may be, it's not our job to police up after them. If the NYPD has a problem with them doing so, they'll handle it but they don't and they're around all the time.

And yes helvete- every post here has a SOP- standard operations and procedures. It is our guidelines and it covers everything we are required to do. EVERYTHING and it doesn't state anywhere about this.

I have no problem doing my job within the guidelines of our SOP.

[Documad]

There is no law stating that the cabbies have to stay in their vehicles. It is not a NY law.

Yet, here we are making it one. Off of our property and on NYC's property.

Maybe I'm not understanding the fact scenario, but I thought you said that your company does business with this car service. If so, your company can say "if you want to get our business, don't let your drivers clutter up the front of our building while they hang out in clusters and smoke and gossip." Just a for instance. If you ask them to stay in their cars, and if they say fuck you, then you can report it to your boss and your company can go with another company next time. Yeah, it would be better if your boss had the balls to address your company's concern to someone higher up at the car service and I can see where you feel like a shit asking someone to do something that you don't agree with, but I don't see a legal issue. There's no law saying that drivers have to wear red hats, but your company can decide only to hire drivers with red hats.

If your company has no business relationship with the car service, then it's unlikely that the drivers will do what you ask but your employer can still make you to try to ask them to stay in their cars. There's nothing illegal about asking someone to do something. You just can't force them to do it if they say no.

Again, maybe I'm missing something.

Are you perhaps just sick of the job -- sick of taking orders -- ready for a change? Sometimes when I've been unhappy with a job, it's a small thing that gets under my skin and pushes me out the door.

[Helvete]

What I mean is, Eric. How are you expected to enforce the companies rules on the drivers? You cannot legally force a driver back into his car and I'm sure your company is not making you do this. As I said, all you can do is tell the driver what you have been told, and then let them do what they want.

Whenever we get ordered to do something bullshit like this, all we do is keep our mouths shut and then just ignore it. Why make an argument when it's something that probably won't come up again? If the company asks you why are the drivers still out of the vehicles, say that you'd told them and they continue to disobey. No longer your problem.

Unless your company is actually expecting you to physically manhandle drivers back into their vehicles if they leave them.

[ericlee]

listen. There's tons of other things that occasionally happens on or near the property.

I had to break up a fellow who was hitting his girlfriend or what not. I mean hitting her, he looked like a human tornado.

There's your random homeless people that stumble near or on the premise as well, they have all kinds of scams to do what they have to do to make a living.. Do you think they have any rules or guidelines of what they have to do?

As the most important part, there's even more sensitive issues that we need to keep an open eye for.

So, some cabbies that you see everyday on the job, know their faces, their routines and they know you are a threat nowadays?

It's just time for me to switch to a more professional job where the rules have been established and your use of better judgment is encouraged as long as you don't exceed what you're supposed to do.

I'm just going to be a pr0n star.