For all the Campus Liberals who think Cheney is the devil incarnate

[RobMoney$]

Cheney comes out strong in support of gay marriage.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090601/ap_on_re_us/us_cheney

WASHINGTON – Former Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday he supports gays being able to marry but believes states, not the federal government, should make the decision.
"I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone," Cheney said in a speech at the National Press Club. "I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish."
Cheney, who has a gay daughter, said marriage has always been a state issue.
"And I think that's the way it ought to be handled today, that is, on a state-by-state basis. Different states will make different decisions. But I don't have any problem with that. I think people ought to get a shot at that," he said.


I can't wait to hear how all the liberal pundits like Bill Mahr and that Daily show dude are gonna try to spin this.

[Burnout18]

Nice but why say that in 2009 and not 2001?

[kaiser soze]

He wasn't for it before

FLIP FLOP!

But hey, I salute you for only this Cheney....you finally listened to your daughter!

[RobMoney$]

Obama still isn't for it.

[kaiser soze]

and I guarantee that is the only reason why cheney says he is for it now

not that it's going to help the GOP, republicans, or conservatives who still hate gays

[RobMoney$]

Jesus, man...I can't stand Cheney either, but your post smacks of some hypocracy.

You've got a conservative leader finally taking a liberal stance on an issue and instead of welcoming him, you rail against him and question his motives.

What the hell, bro?
I thought Obama was supposed to be the great uniter?

[kaiser soze]

I'm not going against him

I said I salute him

nice to hear it, but I am not convinced he believes it

[RobMoney$]

I guess it's fitting because I'm not convinced you were sincere in your salute.

[Yetra Flam]

Isn't that just because his daugher is gay? I doubt he would support it otherwise.

[Whatitis]

It'd be interesting to see what the difference in votes would be if Obama had openly supported gay marriage in his campaign. You'd be naive not to think it could have made a difference in some states especially in the midwest. I'm still surprised that California, of all states, passed prop 8 but my mayor, Mike Gin (http://www.easyreadernews.com/story.php?StoryID=20034305) who happens to be conservative and gay, thought differently.

[RobMoney$]

Cheney was asked this question in his Veep debate against Lieberman in 2000. His answer even back then was that he thought that was a question that was entirely appropriate for states to decide for themselves.

I was under the impression that he was always pro gay marriage.
It was one issue where he differed with the administration. It's completely possible that he felt that as long as he was in the administration, he really shouldn't be out there beating the drum on an issue that is in direct opposition to his boss' policy position.
I think that's fair.
Consider perhaps the Bush administration wanted to push for a constitutional amendment against gay marriage and Cheney worked internally to take it off the table.

[RobMoney$]

Here's a direct link from the transcript of the Cheney-Edwards debate for '04 with Moderator Gwen Ifill.

http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004b.html

IFILL: The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.
I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting: "Freedom means freedom for everybody." You said it again recently when you were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used your family's experience as a context for your remarks.
Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional ban on same-sex unions?


CHENEY: Gwen, you're right, four years ago in this debate, the subject came up. And I said then and I believe today that freedom does mean freedom for everybody. People ought to be free to choose any arrangement they want. It's really no one else's business.
That's a separate question from the issue of whether or not government should sanction or approve or give some sort of authorization, if you will, to these relationships.
Traditionally, that's been an issue for the states. States have regulated marriage, if you will. That would be my preference.
In effect, what's happened is that in recent months, especially in Massachusetts, but also in California, but in Massachusetts we had the Massachusetts Supreme Court direct the state of -- the legislature of Massachusetts to modify their constitution to allow gay marriage.
And the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned.
Now, he sets the policy for this administration, and I support the president.


Proof that he's been pro gay marriage all the time, he just supported the president.
Even the moderator quoted him saying "Freedom means freedom for everybody" from as far back as 2000.

[DroppinScience]

Amending his pro-gay marriage stance with a cop-out line of "but it's a matter for the states to decide, not the federal government" kind of undermines his own declaration of support. Basically, he's going to stand by if individual states actively deny the individual rights of their citizens.

And hasn't he historically been more in favor of civil unions than actual gay marriage anyways?

[RobMoney$]

Well, according to the quote posted immediately before your post,

"People ought to be free to choose any arrangement they want. It's really no one else's business." - R. Cheney


Sounds to me like he's pretty clear that he's in favor of whatever kind of arrangement people want to enter into (be it marriage or union), and he believes it's really no one else's business.


...but feel free to continue to try to discredit and marginalize the man's commendable position everyone.

[RobMoney$]

One of the most visible conservatives out there today supports gay marriage.
This is a good thing people.

Put your hate aside for a minute and enjoy the moment.

[DroppinScience]

What's up with the unbridled Cheney man crush?

[Bob]

it's cool that cheney thinks his daughter should be legally allowed to get married but it really doesn't change the fact that he's a tremendous tool who lied our country into a war that's killed a lot of people

[RobMoney$]

Well, I made this statement in the other thread and I took a little bit of heat for it,

I'm starting to like Cheney a lot more than I did when he was in office. Which may not be saying much, but still.
I like the way the guy is standing up here. It would have been awfully easy to just stick to hunting with his friends.


Also, I just happen to think this is a major step forward from the right and I think it deserves to be commended.

I mean, tell me you aren't the least bit interested in how Limbaugh's gonna react.

[kaiser soze]

I guarantee limpballs won't react, gotta keep his constituents in the dark. Reacting will only continue the republican divide

Couldn't you tell cheney was full of it when he winked at the camera after his "approval"

Always remember - whatever cheney says always expect the opposite

[Documad]

Rob, the thread title makes you sound like a grumpy old man railing against the college kids and it's making me giggle.

[RobMoney$]

Guilty as charged councilor

[Dorothy Wood]

cheney is smart as fuck, and and actual republican. there's no big surprise that he's taken the position he has regarding gay marriage.

and the fact is, he will go along with anything that benefits his own agenda. to commend him on a perfectly logical opinion is absurd.

but you know, good job falling into his trap.

[saz]

Here's a direct link from the transcript of the Cheney-Edwards debate for '04 with Moderator Gwen Ifill.

http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004b.html

CHENEY:
In effect, what's happened is that in recent months, especially in Massachusetts, but also in California, but in Massachusetts we had the Massachusetts Supreme Court direct the state of -- the legislature of Massachusetts to modify their constitution to allow gay marriage.
And the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned.
Now, he sets the policy for this administration, and I support the president.


Proof that he's been pro gay marriage all the time, he just supported the president.
Even the moderator quoted him saying "Freedom means freedom for everybody" from as far back as 2000.

i think what cheney was saying in that debate is that he supports the president's opposition to the massachusetts supreme court directing the legislature of massachusetts to modify their constitution to allow gay marriage. cheney then goes on to say that "the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned" and then cheney goes on to say he supports the president.

regardless, if cheney now favours gay marriage, good for him. still, the guy is at total scumbag.




Cheney: "There Was Never Any Evidence ... Iraq Was Involved In 9/11"

First Posted: 06- 2-09 08:30 AM | Updated: 06- 2-09 09:07 AM
Rachel Weiner l HuffPost Reporting


In an interview with Fox News' Greta van Susteren, former Vice President Dick Cheney admitted that there is no evidence that Iraq was involved in the September 11th attacks.

"On the question of whether or not Iraq was involved in 9-11, there was never any evidence to prove that," he told the "On The Record" host in a joint interview with his daughter Liz. "There was "some reporting early on ... but that was never borne out," Cheney said. "George ... did say and did testify that there was an ongoing relationship between al-Qaeda and Iraq, but no proof that Iraq was involved in 9-11."

Asked in 2004 if Iraq was involved in the attacks, Cheney was less clear, telling CNBC (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/18/cheney.iraq.al.qaeda/), "We don't know." He criticized the "irresponsible" media for reporting that there were no links between al-Qaeda and Iraq. "There clearly was a relationship. It's been testified to. The evidence is overwhelming," Cheney said. In other interviews around that time, Cheney was similarly vague (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney_link_of_iraq_911_challenged/), suggesting that the link could exist. President Bush repeatedly encouraged a false connection between Iraq and the attacks, although he later claimed (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun17.html) to have only said there was a "relationship" between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda.

Liz Cheney complimented Obama's family, and said that she hoped he would "talk about democracy and I hope he'll also talk about women's rights" on his trip to Egypt. Asked if President Obama was "soft," Dick Cheney responded, "I can't say that. I think he's still learning."


link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/02/cheney-there-was-never-an_n_210145.html)

[Burnout18]

Isn't that just because his daugher is gay? I doubt he would support it otherwise.

Isn't that enough to change people? I mean if you want your kids to be happy wouldn't you abandon old age (and wrong) beliefs? Good for cheney, to be honest he didn't have to come out say that; and like KS says i wonder if limbaugh would even address it.

[RobMoney$]

i think what cheney was saying in that debate is that he supports the president's opposition to the massachusetts supreme court directing the legislature of massachusetts to modify their constitution to allow gay marriage. cheney then goes on to say that "the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned" and then cheney goes on to say he supports the president.

regardless, if cheney now favours gay marriage, good for him. still, the guy is at total scumbag.

Now that is some serious spin. You're dead wrong though.
I think it's pretty clear. Examine the moderators' question...

IFILL: I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting: "Freedom means freedom for everybody." .....

.....Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional ban on same-sex unions?

The moderator is asking him to explain his stated support of gay marriage, but the administration he is a part of being against it.

The answer couldn't have been more coherent.

And I said then and I believe today that freedom does mean freedom for everybody. People ought to be free to choose any arrangement they want. It's really no one else's business.
.....And the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned.
Now, he sets the policy for this administration, and I support the president.

He believes in the right for gay marriage, but the President sets the policy for the administration, and he supports the President.
That's apparently been his stated, public position even before he became VP.


Cheney: "There Was Never Any Evidence ... Iraq Was Involved In 9/11"

First Posted: 06- 2-09 08:30 AM | Updated: 06- 2-09 09:07 AM
Rachel Weiner l HuffPost Reporting


In an interview with Fox News' Greta van Susteren, former Vice President Dick Cheney admitted that there is no evidence that Iraq was involved in the September 11th attacks.

"On the question of whether or not Iraq was involved in 9-11, there was never any evidence to prove that," he told the "On The Record" host in a joint interview with his daughter Liz. "There was "some reporting early on ... but that was never borne out," Cheney said. "George ... did say and did testify that there was an ongoing relationship between al-Qaeda and Iraq, but no proof that Iraq was involved in 9-11."

Asked in 2004 if Iraq was involved in the attacks, Cheney was less clear, telling CNBC (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/18/cheney.iraq.al.qaeda/), "We don't know." He criticized the "irresponsible" media for reporting that there were no links between al-Qaeda and Iraq. "There clearly was a relationship. It's been testified to. The evidence is overwhelming," Cheney said. In other interviews around that time, Cheney was similarly vague (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney_link_of_iraq_911_challenged/), suggesting that the link could exist. President Bush repeatedly encouraged a false connection between Iraq and the attacks, although he later claimed (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun17.html) to have only said there was a "relationship" between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda.

Liz Cheney complimented Obama's family, and said that she hoped he would "talk about democracy and I hope he'll also talk about women's rights" on his trip to Egypt. Asked if President Obama was "soft," Dick Cheney responded, "I can't say that. I think he's still learning."


link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/02/cheney-there-was-never-an_n_210145.html)

Good Lord, this Cheney's on a roll lately!

[saz]

Obama still isn't for it.

this is true. although obama is for "civil unions" which includes all of the same benefits and rights of a married hetero couple, he's still one of those lame asses who thinks the word marriage only belongs to straight people.

[Bob]

this is true. although obama is for "civil unions" which includes all of the same benefits and rights of a married hetero couple, he's still one of those lame asses who thinks the word marriage only belongs to straight people.

i wonder if he actually does think that, or if he just takes that point of view for political purposes. i mean, if you support gay marriage, you get the support of the gays, but you alienate the homophobes and the religious right (and they hate him enough because of the abortion issue anyway). the gays are only 10% of the population and it's not like they're going republican anytime soon anyway so politically, it doesn't make much sense to openly support gay marriage as president of the united states (even if you personally have no objection to it)

not that it makes it any less of a gay thing to do. have some big gay balls, obama, fuck the haters

[ms.peachy]

So let's say Cheney isn't 100% evil, he's only 99.9% evil. Wooo.

[HAL 9000]

Good for Cheney.

It looks from this that he takes a more reasonable position on this issue than Obama. I think it is important that politicians are praised for this sort of thing, because it makes it easier for others to follow suit.


So now, hopefully, Obama sees that Cheney said this and no one shot him, and thinks 'maybe I can say it too'. And at the same time the extremist factions in the republicans might thing 'if its OK with Cheny, its OK with me.'

Not sure about the state decision thing though. I am not American so I may be missing the point, but I thought that the rules about freedom in America were driven by the constitution and were a federal matter. I think this is a human rights issue.

[RobMoney$]

Are you saying that you don't understand the concept of states rights?

[HAL 9000]

I had never even heard of it until I just googled it! Consider my comment retracted :D

[RobMoney$]

It was pretty much the core issue of the American Civil War.