John Williams, hack?

[Nuzzolese]

I always liked the music of Star Wars, composed by John Williams. And I'm not alone in this, he's won awards. But I just listened to Gustav Holst's The Planets, and it is basically the star wars music, especially Mars, Bringer of War. John Williams wasn't even subtle about borrowing from previous composers, he very nearly quotes them.

And I wouldn't say that's a bad thing, necessarily, but it doesn't make him a great composer worthy of great esteem, and awards for composition, does it? It makes him more of a good arranger.

I looked into it, and I'm not the first one to notice this - didn't even imagine that I would be. Apparently he's taken heavily from Dvorak, Mahler, Stravinsky, Wagner...the list goes on.

And while it's not strange for composers to reference their past favorites, where does the line between homage and plagiarism exist? Did he cross it? Does he deserve his accolades?

Now, the Jurassic Park score is pretty good, I'll give him that. And I'm not saying I no longer enjoy the Star Wars score, but eh, my eyes are opened, my friends, and yours should be too. You be the jury.

For comparison I recommend Holst's Mars, Bringer of War, Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, and Dvorak's New World Symphony #9

It's good music, anyway, especially if you think classical music is all Handel and Mozart and you want something more badass. Plus, it's cooler to listen to real classical compositions than film scores. I'm no puritan but quality and originality deserve their credit.

[jabumbo]

new world symphony is one of my most favorite pieces of all time (y)


as far as the whole copy thing, i dunno. it would be like comparing him to all the hip-hop artists and producers who sample other shit for their tunes. its really the same process.

i think you have to look at his music in the context of the films he was composing for. with classical music, you really have to convey the story with the notes on the page, and he does a pretty good job of that.


"arranging" a piece is different than using similar themes for two different pieces. its not that he is trying to write the same song over again as he hears it, but use similar instrumentation and punctuates similarly since those songs of old really do convey the same feeling as what he was going for

[Nuzzolese]

I think he does a great job of putting music to a story, but I feel that it's unfair to consider him as a "composer" among the ranks of people who do try to write something unique. Is he as much of an artist as they are? Imagine how that would feel to composers who struggle to really create something.

[b i o n i c]

99% of what people call classical music isnt classical music, so by extention, people would put them in the same categories as serious composers

[Nuzzolese]

I guess it wouldn't have bothered me as much if I'd already known about the original, earlier compositions. Now I feel that I'd given John Williams too much credit, and I suspect that other people do too, becuase they have never listened to Holst or Stravinsky or Mahler - outside of their use in movies.

[Nuzzolese]

99% of what people call classical music isnt classical music, so by extention, people would put them in the same categories as serious composers


Well they're wrong, and they need to be set right!

[paul jones]

I like the Star Wars music,growing up with it.Music is always being copied ,be it classical or a song written last week that some band has put up on their Myspace and some other artist has heard it and stole it already.
Kraftwerk were very disappointed with the music chosen for Star Wars.They had hoped for 'future sounds' like with synthesizers or whatever.
I can't imagine any other music to go with Star Wars other than what it is.
I think if it had been funk or synths it would have dated badly whereas classical is timeless if you think about it.It was here long before rock and roll onwards.I don't have any classical records but I appreciate it for what it is.

I wonder if Star Wars would have been as big with The Theme from Benny Hill if Benny Hill hadn't used it?

[Nuzzolese]

I wonder if Star Wars would have been as big with The Theme from Benny Hill if Benny Hill hadn't used it?

Like the scene when Han charges down a corridor after some storm troopers, only to turn and flee a bigger group of troopers?

[YoungRemy]

you mean like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkxdE4OEYEQ&feature=related)
or
this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB4aW98alxc)

Darth vs. Obi Wan- Benny Hill Style

[jabumbo]

99% of what people call classical music isnt classical music, so by extention, people would put them in the same categories as serious composers


you fuckin baroque elitist

[YoungRemy]

you fuckin baroque elitist hipster

fixed

[b i o n i c]

haha

[Schmeltz]

Two words: Hans Zimmer

[Guy Incognito]

my favourite john williams is close encounters, he cant have nicked those 5 notes.

[jabumbo]

the "classical" period was pretty solid, but the "romantic" period was where things really began to come alive


sans the occasional JS Bach piece, i personally think the "baroque" era is for shit

[hpdrifter]

I like baroque

:o

[Nuzzolese]

If it ain't baroque don't fix it.

[jabumbo]

I like baroque

:o



i knew there was something a little off about you....



go home and listen to your canon in d :mad:

[paul jones]

Like the scene when Han charges down a corridor after some storm troopers, only to turn and flee a bigger group of troopers?

(y)

[paul jones]

you mean like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkxdE4OEYEQ&feature=related)
or
this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB4aW98alxc)

Darth vs. Obi Wan- Benny Hill Style

(y)