Even Obama's doctor knocks Obamacare

[valvano]

is this considered "Obama Hate"?:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/18/obama-doctor-knocks-obamacare-business-healthcare-obamas-doctor.html

Hope....Change........Failure.....:rolleyes:

[saz]

thanks for the link valvano, i completely agree with david schneiner:


What should the president be focused on? Scheiner thinks that a good health reform would be "Medicare for all," a single-payer system where the government would cover everyone and pay for it by cutting out waste in the system.

[DroppinScience]

So does this mean valvano is now an advocate of true universal health care?

I guess hell has frozen over.

[QueenAdrock]

is this considered "Obama Hate"?:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/18/obama-doctor-knocks-obamacare-business-healthcare-obamas-doctor.html

Hope....Change........Failure.....:rolleyes:

Scheiner thinks that Obama's "public plan" reform doesn't go far enough.

So do you actually read what you post, or do you just see exciting, "anti-Obama" headlines and get an automatic boner and come over here to post it up? This dude's to the left of Obama (as many of us on this board are), so thanks for the perspective. Quite a few people here agree with him, too. (y)

[valvano]

thanks for the link valvano, i completely agree with david schneiner:


What should the president be focused on? Scheiner thinks that a good health reform would be "Medicare for all," a single-payer system where the government would cover everyone and pay for it by cutting out waste in the system.

^yes, the govt has a long and proud history of running things efficiently and within budget.....

[saz]

the united states postal service, the army, air force, navy, the police and fire dept.

[valvano]

the united states postal service, the army, air force, navy, the police and fire dept.

that would be the same USPS currently running a deficit?

http://www.postalnewsblog.com/2009/01/30/mailers-council-reacts-to-usps-deficit-projection-5-day-delivery-proposal/

the same military that pays for the legendary $200 toilet seats and $50 hammers?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/world/americas/13iht-13military.12845193.html


fed govt doesnt have much to do with my local fire dept (volunteers) or police dept
:D

[RobMoney$]

Now the police are a model of efficiency?
Not according to kaiser:
Another cop - Another crime (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=90371)

I don't see how a police force rife with criminals is an example of efficiency?

[saz]

that would be the same USPS currently running a deficit?

http://www.postalnewsblog.com/2009/01/30/mailers-council-reacts-to-usps-deficit-projection-5-day-delivery-proposal/

the same military that pays for the legendary $200 toilet seats and $50 hammers?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/world/americas/13iht-13military.12845193.html

so what. unfortunately, governments run deficits all the time, ie bush, reagan, yet i don't see you crying about them. and deregulated private enterprise did such a wonderful job with wall street, rebuilding iraq, the banks and other financial institutions, areas in which it is far too greedy to operate competently.


fed govt doesnt have much to do with my local fire dept (volunteers) or police dept
:D

that's what your tax dollars are used for.

[DroppinScience]

I like what Jon Stewart said about the Post Office. For 44 cents, they take your piece of crap letter you wrote and put it on a plane to Wyoming! (I'm paraphrasing a bit). :D

[kaiser soze]

Now the police are a model of efficiency?
Not according to kaiser:
Another cop - Another crime (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=90371)

I don't see how a police force rife with criminals is an example of efficiency?

and for a moment I thought you were blaming me for disparaging the many for the acts of just a few.

[Schmeltz]

Classic valvano - comes to the BBMB, posts a link he hasn't read and that makes a point completely opposite to what he intended, and then changes the subject rather than addressing his failure and ineptitude.

Conservative......illiterate......idiocy...... :D :D :D

[RobMoney$]

the united states postal service, the army, air force, navy, the police and fire dept.


How about that trillion dollar stimilus package?
Biden stated the bill was originally intended to create 3.5 million jobs now looks like it would only amount to about 600,000 jobs.

That's $1.66 MILLION per job.
Governement efficeincy at its' best!!


Interesting that we haven't heard from the Obama crowd defending the stimulus.

[saz]

well rob, once again i'm not a part of the obama crowd. and like schmeltz pointed out, it would be nice to stay on topic. regardless, the stimulus probably wasn't large enough, and the majority of americans seem to look to the government in times of crisis, ie 911, now the recession.

[RobMoney$]

I like how you say you're not part of the Obama crowd, but you always seem to be on the side of the debate where you're defending him.

It gets very confusing.

[Dorothy Wood]

yeah, it's pretty confusing when people think for themselves and have their own opinions.

[RobMoney$]

That's funny.

Next to kaiser and Droppin', I'd consider you the next biggest sheep of the left.

Show me one original opinion you've EVER given, or once where you gave an opinion that even differed from the liberal standard.

[Documad]

I like how you say you're not part of the Obama crowd, but you always seem to be on the side of the debate where you're defending him.

It gets very confusing.

No, he was critical of Obama way before the election -- for different reasons than I was critical of Obama. He's consistent.

[Dorothy Wood]

That's funny.

Next to kaiser and Droppin', I'd consider you the next biggest sheep of the left.

Show me one original opinion you've EVER given, or once where you gave an opinion that even differed from the liberal standard.


you've gotta be kidding me.

I have explained a million times what my views are. you just aren't capable of retaining information that doesn't bolster your own ever-changing nonsensical opinions.

I fall into the 3rd party camp, actually, libertarian with a dash of green, I'd say. I'm one of those people who actually thinks about things and decides issue by issue rather than standing behind a label.

I believe that people should be responsible for themselves, but understand that if the needs of the whole are not met to a certain degree, that leads to more problems for everyone.


I only supported Obama because I believe he is intelligent and has good intentions. and like I've said at least a hundred times on here, I would've strongly considered voting for McCain had he not chose Palin as his running mate.

I continue to cautiously support Obama, though I don't agree with some of the choices he makes. Like choosing Arne Duncan to be the Secretary of Education. also, I'm for gay marriage and universal healthcare.

but what can I do? he's a politician, he has to strike a balance and play some games. it's a fact of life. I'll always remember what my 8th grade Government teacher told us, "the kind of people who would make the best presidents would never be elected".

[saz]

I like how you say you're not part of the Obama crowd, but you always seem to be on the side of the debate where you're defending him.

It gets very confusing.

:confused:

here are ten threads criticizing obama or democrats:

obama's justice department sides with bush administration on valerie plame (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=91350)

obama admin protects bush & cheney on torture, expands warentless wiretapping (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=90827)

sanjay gupta as surgeon general (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=89836)

this is change? 20 hawks, clintonites and neocons to watch for in obama's white house (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=89496)

evan bayh forming conservative "blue dog" caucus in senate (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=89670)

obama keeping bush's defense secretary (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=89489)

obama advisors: torture prosecutions not likely (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=89397)

obama unlikely to overhaul controversial bush intelligence policies (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=89305)

lame: at&t and other corporate logos will be on display at democratic convention (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=87819)

some bad news for mccain and obama (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=88087)

here's a few praising either schwarzenegger or bob barr:

bob barr: federal drug war rethought (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=88421)

bob barr: mccain a "hypocrite" (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=88770)

schwarzenegger: time to talk about legalizing pot (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=91147)

[RobMoney$]

Interesting.

Of those 10 threads you use as an example of your being critical of Obama, 6 of those are merely you copy and pasting a story accompanied by 1 or 2 sentences by you basically echoing the topic of the story.

In 2 of the links you don't even offer an opinion, just simply a copy & paste?


This is a fine example of exactly what I criticized you for a few days ago.

[saz]

well, usually people want to see what you are talking about, you know some context, hence the articles and the linking of news items. i'm not really sure if i were to espouse various rants, without any point of reference, would garner any real interest or be taken seriously. the news items provide the context and information for others to inform themselves of the topic at hand, and then to make their own decision and take it from there.

[valvano]

Interesting.

Of those 10 threads you use as an example of your being critical of Obama, 6 of those are merely you copy and pasting a story accompanied by 1 or 2 sentences by you basically echoing the topic of the story.

In 2 of the links you don't even offer an opinion, just simply a copy & paste?


This is a fine example of exactly what I criticized you for a few days ago.

you will have to excuse him, his econ prof only sends him links, not text , when advising him what to post on internet message boards....:)

[saz]

yes, you have it nailed right down. this imaginary economics professor of mine, sends me news articles and instructs me to post them on this board. but hey at least i take the time out to inform myself and read the news, and carefully read and select what i'm going to post to the board, as opposed to yourself who posts links without reading them first.

[RobMoney$]

Oh please!

6 of those links are from Huffington Post articles, one of the most liberal publications going.. And another 2 are from something called "Alternet" which I'm not familiar with, but looks pretty liberal from the few seconds I looked at it.

Linking a story for "context" as you put it isn't really what you're doing, now is it? The copied stories you link are your entire opinion.
You really don't seem to offer very much original content at all, which makes you nothing more than a sheep of Arianna Huffington.
I mean if I wanted her opinion, I'd just go to the Huffington Posts' website myself.
I never followed, or bothered reading any of those "copy & paste" type of postings you ever made.
I have to say I'm a bit disappointed.
A post with that much information in it certainly has the appearance of legitimacy.
It's a bit like the great Oz having the curtain pulled back and revealing a frail and impotent old man.

Also, cirticizing Obama for not being "left" enough, which is what any critical columns of Obama on HuffPo do isn't quite the same as how valvano & I criticize him.
He may not have been your guy, but he's still much more closer to your side of the fence than he is ours.

[saz]

well first of all, it takes more than "a few seconds" to fully gage and understand a website.

the huffington post is probably and arguably the premier news site on the net. its news articles and reports are usually taken directly from the associated press, reuters, nbc, abc, cbs, the bbc etc. the huffington post also has reporters on their own staff, ie huffpost reporting, who generally report directly from washington. they also have blogs or opinion pieces which are, predominantly written by centrists or those on the left.

anyways, the link regarding obama advisors saying that torture prosecutions won't be likely came from the huffington post, however that story was picked up from the associated press. another huffington post link regarding robert gates staying on as defence secretary, was reiterating reports from the new york times, fox news, politico, and abc news. the link concerning sanjay gupta was from huffpost reporting, which accurately reported that gupta was considered for the surgeon general position. the link concerning evan bayh and the blue dog caucus was from open left, who accurately reported what bayh and the blue dogs were up to (incidently, republican strategists and advisors such as amy holmes are quite fond of bayh and the blue dogs and like to point out their conservative slant). and regarding the 20 hawks, clintonites and neo-cons link which came from alternet, well, that reporting was all spot on, as they are involved in obama's foreign policy team. also, jeremy scahill wrote the critically acclaimed expose on blackwater (http://www.amazon.com/Blackwater-Rise-Worlds-Powerful-Mercenary/dp/1560259795), and he continues to research and follow private mercenary firms, a new phenomenon that should trouble all americans, regardless of their political affiliation or leaning.

yes, what i am doing is linking a story for context. something is reported on and is picked up within the media, and then it's posted to the board. and sure, i may be alarmed by the contents of that particular article, for example: obama's justice department sides with bush administration on valerie plame; the obama administration protecting bush and cheney on torture, while expanding warrentless wiretapping; the obama administration not conducting prosecutions of those institutionalized torture; or the obama administration is unlikely to overhaul controversial bush intelligence policies.

when it comes to my opinions, i am vehemently opposed to torture, illegal wiretapping, and the outing of covert cia agents. being disappointed, concerned or upset by the fact the obama administration is not acting on the outing of covert cia agent valerie plame, or protecting bush and cheney when it comes to torture, or expanding warrentless wiretapping, no torture prosecutions etc doesn't make one a "sheep" of arianna huffington. in fact, she isn't the biggest fan of the green party or people like dennis kucinich or ralph nader and has even taken pleasure in ridiculing him.

and hey, if you don't even bother to read my posts, i could care less (but it looks like you read this one (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=91350) as you replied to it), because if someone has a different opinion than you, you tend to either hurl insults, attempt to ridicule, or completely patronize the individual with a differing opinion.

and yes, it's quite obvious that if the criticisms of the obama administration aren't direct gop talking points, you're not interested. but i would think that issues such as torture, illegal wiretapping, and the outing of a covert cia agent would cut across partisan lines.