Problem

[russhie]

This is probably going to get quite long.

I live with two other girls so as can be expected there is a bit of bitchiness/competition at times, especially when boys or weight is involved.

But. I'm starting to have serious problems with one of them, she is generally quite a nice person - if you were to meet her initially, you'd probably fault her for being a little fake, if anything. Even then it just seems like she's trying to make a good impression or whatever.

Over the course of the last year and a bit we've all lived together, I've come to decide that she is actually quite an unpleasant person. She has self esteem issues, I think, and imprints these issues on other people - for instance, she will get drunk and believe that guys think she's ugly or that we think she's a slut, even though no one has said anything like that at all.

When this happens, she gets quite aggressive and upset. It is difficult to placate her, as you're not entirely sure why she has gone bananas in the first place. She'll shake her head and say "I'm fine, I'm fine, go away" and when you leave her alone she bleats that nobody cares, it's not fair, I care so much, etc. She becomes impossible to communicate with, and generally she will assault or attempt to assault you, will throw things (shoes and bags are popular) at you, beat her fists on something hard and tell you that you're stupid/a bad friend/to fuck off.

Having been on the recieving end of this bullshit multiple times now, it's not so much the incoherent drunken abuse that worries me - it's that she actually gets up in the morning and believes she has done nothing wrong, and that she is actually being hard done by. I've never heard her apologise or even admit to anything - even when she gave the other girl in the house (her best friend) a black eye and was confronted with it daily.

Last night was a prime example of this behaviour, she started an argument with her friend in the club (she is screwing a bouncer there and thinks she can get people thrown out) and threw a drink at me while I was trying to talk to someone else. She actually broke the shower door in a fit of drunken anger when we got home. I have asked her about this, and she said the door was "fine" when she finished her shower. I want her to get help, as she is a good person under all that, but she refuses to get counselling or stop drinking and I really can't tolerate her pure meanness or disregard for property and the safety of others when she is convinced she's got it worse than everyone around her.

How the hell do I talk to her reasonably and get her to own this behaviour? How can I talk to her when she sees it as a personal attack (more evidence she's hard done by)? What sort of training do I need to be able to dodge the inevitable shoe attack?

Help.

[paul jones]

accidentley shoot her head off then call for The Wolf

[Kid Presentable]

Maybe you should leave before you try and help her.

[Audio.]

Kid has a point and on other hand she does need help so... what about her family? How are their relationship with her. Cause maybe they should be the ones helping her out.

[DipDipDive]

If possible (though it sounds like this behavior is a regular occurrence), I would have a heart to heart with her at a time when there hasn't been a recent incident. That way (hopefully) you can bring the big picture to her attention rather than focusing an isolated event. Take her out to dinner or coffee and talk with her about your observations. Let her know that you're concerned and that you want her to be happy, and that these outbursts when she's drunk are a clear indication that she is not.

The next step would be contacting a family member (as Audio said) or maybe a close friend outside of your living situation.

If she doesn't show any signs of remorse or seem to be interested in taking responsibility for her actions, even after you and others have reached out, you should consider either moving out or finding another roommate and severing all ties with her completely. People like this can't be helped unless they want to help themselves, and unfortunately, the best remedy might be tough love.

[DIGI]

I'd bypass the heart to heart. Even though your intentions are good, she could possibly take it the wrong way, which will likely cause contempt and make things worse. I'd seek outside intervention. First I'd talk about it with the closest friend of hers you know that's outside the living arrangement. Maybe have her/him try to talk to her and if that doesn't work, bring the family into the mix. It seems like she's the type to easily slip into denial and eventually project bad vibes your way when all you want to do is help her. You need someone close who can strike a nerve to talk to her.

[DipDipDive]

I'd bypass the heart to heart.

*THROWS SHOE*

[Kid Presentable]

If possible (though it sounds like this behavior is a regular occurrence), I would have a heart to heart with her at a time when there hasn't been a recent incident. That way (hopefully) you can bring the big picture to her attention rather than focusing an isolated event. Take her out to dinner or coffee and talk with her about your observations. Let her know that you're concerned and that you want her to be happy, and that these outbursts when she's drunk are a clear indication that she is not.

The next step would be contacting a family member (as Audio said) or maybe a close friend outside of your living situation.

If she doesn't show any signs of remorse or seem to be interested in taking responsibility for her actions, even after you and others have reached out, you should consider either moving out or finding another roommate and severing all ties with her completely. People like this can't be helped unless they want to help themselves, and unfortunately, the best remedy might be tough love.

None of this will work, except for the parts that agree with what I said. A 20 something girl isn't going to listen or see the concern as a positive. Guaranteed.

[Fern]

MAYBE A VAG EATING SESSION WILL STRAIGHTEN HER OUT...

[monkey]

i don't have any good advice for you, but i can tell you how i dealt with a crazy friend in my past.

i had a friend who was the sweetest thing in the world, maybe a little self deprecating sometimes, but funny and sweet. or so it seemed. the closer we got, the more vicious her self deprecating got, and it started to become a comparison between the two of us, when she'd say things like "i'm 129 lbs right now, i feel so fat, i don't know how you deal with being 135 lbs" (we're both about the same height). or she'd say "i wish i had your chest so i could look sexy and guys would like me regardless of the thighs we've got". and for a while, i'd laugh it off and try to be self deprecating like she was, in a joking manner, but it really started to get to me. she basically hated everything that we had in common, and she'd make "jokes" about me being ok with it, like my weight, my race, my guy problems, everything. it made her feel better to think that she was better off than me, i think, but her way of saying it made it seem that we were both in shitty situations. it got to a point where nothing that came out of her mouth when she was around me was a nice thing, it was all a criticism of our common traits. and it really stated to get to me, i started to feel shitty about those things, i started to get into her mentality, which was NOT healthy. also, she was massively depressive (as i have been at times) and this would also be a topic of "joking" and pushing buttons. anyway, one day when she was talking about particularly depressive things, and i said to her that she should get therapy, that it had helped me a ton to become more comfortable with myself. and she basically made a giant stink (and told a ton of other people what i had said) about never going to therapy, that was for crazies, that anyone who would go to therapy had to be absolutely insane to listen to someone else, blah blah blah, and that she wasn't depressed, life was just being extra unfair to her by making her a puerto rican girl living in new york city. those were her exact words, btw.
after that explosion, i just basically stopped talking to her. i stopped seeking her out as a friend, when i saw her, i would be polite but i stopped being friendly. i couldn't take that person in my life anymore. i felt that she was my friend only to feel better about herself. personally, i never really thought that the things she thought were so horrible about herself were actually bad. she was so sweet before i really got to know her well, and most people who only know her superficially don't understand why we stopped being friends (also, because i never told anyone about it). i was very heartbroken over ending that relationship, because i don't give up on friends, and i really love them. but that relationship was toxic for me, just as i feel she is toxic to herself. i wish she'd get help of some sort.

anyway... i felt that sort of related. maybe i did the cowardly thing and ran away, but i don't think she would have been receptive to me continuing to push her towards therapy. i tried other things, i tried being uber nice, i tried giving her a million compliments, i tried pointing out all the good things about her to herself, i even spoke to her mom once about it (her mom's view was similar to hers, she was a victim of circumstance and terrible heritage). it was sad to see such delusion.

a good friend of mine is now dating her, and i wish them the best. i hope he can help her, cause he's a really good guy and i know that all in all, she deserves to have a good person around her to support her. i hope that she's now more secure about life. but who knows.

[DipDipDive]

None of this will work, except for the parts that agree with what I said. A 20 something girl isn't going to listen or see the concern as a positive. Guaranteed.

Yes, I suppose you know being that you've been in the shoes of a twenty-something girl.

:rolleyes:

[DIGI]

*THROWS SHOE*

*Hulks out and smashes door*

[Kid Presentable]

Yes, I suppose you know being that you've been in the shoes of a twenty-something girl.

:rolleyes:

I have observed that you are being sarcastic. I am concerned about this, and want you to be happy. These sarcastic outbursts when you're wrong are a clear indication that you are not happy.

Feel better?

[DipDipDive]

I have observed that you are being sarcastic. I am concerned about this, and want you to be happy. These sarcastic outbursts when you're wrong are a clear indication that you are not happy.

Feel better?

Confrontation during which genuine concern is expressed is not synonymous with reverse psychology.

[Kid Presentable]

You're a 20 something girl, and you're refusing to listen.

[pshabi]

MAYBE A VAG EATING SESSION WILL STRAIGHTEN HER OUT...

Followed up by the high hard one. Seriously, a good hate fuck one night may work wonders here.

[Kid Presentable]

Followed up by the high hard one. Seriously, a good hate fuck one night may work wonders here.

Yeah, crank some Sublime.

[RobMoney$]

if you were to meet her initially, you'd probably fault her for being a little fake...

She has self esteem issues, I think, and imprints these issues on other people...

she will get drunk and believe that guys think she's ugly or that we think she's a slut, even though no one has said anything like that at all...

When this happens, she gets quite aggressive and upset. It is difficult to placate her, as you're not entirely sure why she has gone bananas in the first place. She'll shake her head and say "I'm fine, I'm fine, go away" and when you leave her alone she bleats that nobody cares...

She becomes impossible to communicate with, and generally she will assault or attempt to assault you, will throw things (shoes and bags are popular) at you, beat her fists on something hard and tell you that you're stupid/a bad friend/to fuck off.



I'm kinda lost.
What part of that do you consider abnormal behavior for women?

[mickill]

I agree with the Kid. Rather than worrying about how to help her with her numerous issues, you may want to first consider the toll that continuing to live with this person is likely to have on you. Speaking from experience, it's sort of pointless trying to explain to a person that you would like to help them with a problem if they aren't even aware that they have a problem to begin with. You can make it clear to her that the people she's affecting with these toddler-like tantrums and drunken rants (namely you) aren't going to tolerate this sort of behavior from her, THROUGH YOUR ACTIONS. Moving out (or asking her to, depending on your living arrangements) would probably make the strongest statement.

[Dorothy Wood]

film her, then show her how she is. I'm not kidding.

[nodanaonlyzuul]

I agree with the Kid. Rather than worrying about how to help her with her numerous issues, you may want to first consider the toll that continuing to live with this person is likely to have on you. Speaking from experience, it's sort of pointless trying to explain to a person that you would like to help them with a problem if they aren't even aware that they have a problem to begin with. You can make it clear to her that the people she's affecting with these toddler-like tantrums and drunken rants (namely you) aren't going to tolerate this sort of behavior from her, THROUGH YOUR ACTIONS. Moving out (or asking her to, depending on your living arrangements) would probably make the strongest statement.

This, word for fucking word.

Listen to us. If this person keeps refusing to help THEMSELVES there is NOTHING you can really do for them. And it seems you've already made the effort...

and it hasn't worked. I completely understand wanting to help someone, a friend especially, but when people have problems like this they will prey, manipulate, and keep using/abusing until you cut them OFF.

[ET]

She sounds like a lost cause. Or that she likes the chaos. Both. I think you talked about her vaguely before. It's a shame that you can see the good in her, yet she's being so caustic. Sounds like you've done your fair share to help in earnest only to get shat on. That's not what friends do. I hope this situation is resolved one way or another and I agree that you taking action in terms of cutting her off is one of the best ideas. One day she'll realize there are consequences for her actions.