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saz
06-28-2009, 06:18 PM
How The Climate Bill May Spur An Energy Revolution

H. Josef Hebert | June 27, 2009 07:41 PM EST | The Associated Press


WASHINGTON — Congress has taken its first step toward an energy revolution, with the prospect of profound change for every household, business, industry and farm in the decades ahead.

It was late Friday when the House passed legislation that would, for the first time, require limits on pollution blamed for global warming _ mainly carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels. Now the Senate has the chance to change the way Americans produce and use energy.

What would the country look like a decade from now if the House-passed bill _ or, more likely, a water-down version _ were to become the law of the land?

"It will open the door to a clean energy economy and a better future for America," President Barack Obama said Saturday.

But what does that mean to the average person?

Energy touches every corner of the economy and in countless ways can alter people's lives.

Such a law would impact how much people pay to heat, cool and light their homes (it would cost more); what automobiles they buy and drive (smaller, fuel efficient and hybrid electric); and where they will work (more "green" jobs, meaning more environmentally friendly ones).

Critics of the House bill brand it a "jobs killer." Yet it would seem more likely to shift jobs. Old, energy-intensive industries and businesses might scale back or disappear. Those green jobs would emerge, propelled by the push for nonpolluting energy sources.

That could mean making or installing solar panels, repairing wind turbines, producing energy-efficient light bulbs, working for an environmental engineering firm or waste recycler, making equipment that harnesses carbon from coal burning and churning out energy-saving washing machines or air conditioners.

Assembly line workers at factories that made gas-guzzling cars might see their future in producing the next generation of batteries or wind turbine blades _ an emerging shift, though on a relatively small scale today. On Wall Street, commodity brokers would trade carbon pollution credits alongside oil futures.

Farmers would see the cost of fertilizer and electricity go up. More windmills would dot their pastures. And a new source of income could come from selling pollution credits by planting trees or changing farming methods to absorb more carbon dioxide.

Energy would cost more because it would become more expensive to produce. For the first time there would be a price on the greenhouse gas pollution created when coal, natural gas or oil are burned. Energy companies would have to pay for technologies that can capture the carbon emissions, purchase pollution allowances or shift to cleaner energy sources.

It all costs.

Investors would see a new line item on companies financial reports: the cost of carbon permits.

Some increases would be reflected in the prices of goods and services, economics say. It might mean shelling out more for a toy because plastic, a petroleum based product, is more expensive, or paying more for a house because of new efficiency requirements.

Not all the higher energy cost would show up in people's utility bills. Households, as well as business and factories _ including those, for example, making plastic for toys _ could use less energy, or at least use it more efficiently. The poorest of homes could get a government check as a rebate for high energy costs. That money would come from selling pollution allowances for industry.

Energy experts in government and industry say a price on carbon pollution would lead to new ways to make renewable energy less expensive, while emphasizing how people can use it more wisely.

Potential changes to how homes are built and even financed seem likely as energy efficiency is taken into account in building codes and the cost of mortgages. With the cost of energy increasing, homeowners and businesses would have greater incentive to use more energy efficient lighting, windows and insulation.

But don't think that the traditional sources of energy would disappear.

Coal, which today accounts for half the electricity produced, would continue as a major energy source, though a less polluting one, energy experts forecast. That would mean capturing the carbon released when coal is burned.

It's a technological hurdle with a complication: "not in my back yard" complaints over what to do with the billions of tons of carbon dioxide captured from power plants and pumped beneath the earth. Would people feel comfortable having it stored near or under their homes, factories and businesses?

Scientists studying climate change say carbon capture from power plants is essential if the country is to take up the challenge against global warming.

The cleaner energy economy also put nuclear energy front and center. Does the U.S. build new power plants? If so, where, and where does all the waste go? Nuclear energy makes up about one-fifth of the nation's electricity today.

The House-passed bill contains provisions to make it easier to get loan guarantees and expands the nuclear industry's access to loans for reactor construction. An Environmental Protection Agency analysis that shows modest future costs from a low-climate energy world assumes a significant expansion of nuclear energy. The Senate could add more incentives for the nuclear industry.

The new energy world would rely more on natural gas. This abundant fossil fuel emits carbon but is relatively clean when compared with coal. But people would have to decide whether to accept new pipelines that are needed to ship the gas around the country _ just as they would have to deal with the need for new power lines to move solar and wind energy to where it's needed.

___

Editorr's Note - H. Josef Hebert has covered energy and environmental issues for The Associated Press since 1990.

saz
06-28-2009, 06:50 PM
here is a great (but rather lengthy) response from dennis kucinich on the legislation. although he makes a number of tremendous points and counter arguments, which i fully agree with (coal, nuclear, and his amendments to the legislation), i'm not sure i'm 100% with him, yet. i'd still like to some further reading. i do think the legislation is definitely a step in the right direction and a major accomplishment so far, as this was long overdue for a very long time. alternative energy sources, green jobs et al will eventually lead to another economic boom just like the dot com boom, and will definitely put america back on the right track with a resurgence of the entrepreneurial spirit or made in america industry. no wonder obama has been stressing 'buy american' or 'america first' for quite a long time now. still, i can't help but consider kucinich's criticisms and that more action is needed.



Kucinich: "Passing a weak bill today gives us weak environmental policy tomorrow"

by Dennis Kucinich
June 26, 2009 at 23:14:50


I oppose H.R. 2454, the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009. The reason is simple. It won't address the problem. In fact, it might make the problem worse.

It sets targets that are too weak, especially in the short term, and sets about meeting those targets through Enron-style accounting methods. It gives new life to one of the primary sources of the problem that should be on its way out - coal - by giving it record subsidies. And it is rounded out with massive corporate giveaways at taxpayer expense. There is $60 billion for a single technology which may or may not work, but which enables coal power plants to keep warming the planet at least another 20 years.

Worse, the bill locks us into a framework that will fail. Science tells us that immediately is not soon enough to begin repairing the planet. Waiting another decade or more will virtually guarantee catastrophic levels of warming. But the bill does not require any greenhouse gas reductions beyond current levels until 2030.

Today's bill is a fragile compromise, which leads some to claim that we cannot do better. I respectfully submit that not only can we do better; we have no choice but to do better. Indeed, if we pass a bill that only creates the illusion of addressing the problem, we walk away with only an illusion. The price for that illusion is the opportunity to take substantive action.

There are several aspects of the bill that are problematic.



1. Overall targets are too weak.

The bill is predicated on a target atmospheric concentration of 450 parts per million, a target that is arguably justified in the latest report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, but which is already out of date. Recent science suggests 350 parts per million is necessary to help us avoid the worst effects of global warming.

2. The offsets undercut the emission reductions.

Offsets allow polluters to keep polluting; they are rife with fraudulent claims of emissions reduction; they create environmental, social, and economic unintended adverse consequences; and they codify and endorse the idea that polluters do not have to make sacrifices to solve the problem.

3. It kicks the can down the road.

By requiring the bulk of the emissions to be carried out in the long term and requiring few reductions in the short term, we are not only failing to take the
action when it is needed to address rapid global warming, but we are assuming the long term targets will remain intact.

4. EPA's authority

to help reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the short-to medium-term is rescinded. It is our best defense against a new generation of coal power plants. There is no room for coal as a major energy source in a future with a stable climate.

5. Nuclear power is given a lifeline instead of phasing it out.

Nuclear power is far more expensive, has major safety issues including a near release in my own home state in 2002, and there is still no resolution to the waste problem. A recent study by Dr. Mark Cooper showed that it would cost $1.9 trillion to $4.1 trillion more over the life of 100 new nuclear reactors than to generate the same amount of electricity from energy efficiency and renewables.

6. Dirty Coal is given a lifeline instead of phasing it out.

Coal-based energy destroys entire mountains, kills and injures workers at higher rates than most other occupations, decimates ecologically sensitive wetlands and streams, creates ponds of ash that are so toxic the Department of Homeland Security will not disclose their locations for fear of their potential to become a terrorist weapon, and fouls the air and water with sulfur oxides, nitrogen oxides, particulates, mercury, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and thousands of other toxic compounds that cause asthma, birth defects, learning disabilities, and pulmonary and cardiac problems for starters. In contrast, several times more jobs are yielded by renewable energy investments than comparable coal investments.

7. The $60 billion allocated for Carbon Capture and Sequestration (CCS) is triple the amount of money for basic research and development in the bill.

We should be pressuring China, India and Russia to slow and stop their power plants now instead of enabling their perpetuation. We cannot create that
pressure while spending unprecedented amounts on a single technology that may or may not work. If it does not work on the necessary scale, we have then spent 10-20 years emitting more CO2, which we cannot afford to do. In addition, those who will profit from the technology will not be viable or able to stem any leaks from CCS facilities that may occur 50, 100, or 1000 years from now.

8. Carbon markets can and will be manipulated using the same Wall Street sleights of hand that brought us the financial crisis.

9. It is regressive.

Free allocations doled out with the intent of blunting the effects on those of modest means will pale in comparison to the allocations that go to polluters and special interests. The financial benefits of offsets and unlimited banking also tend to accrue to large corporations. And of course, the trillion dollar carbon derivatives market will help Wall Street investors. Much of the benefits designed to assist consumers are passed through coal companies and other large corporations, on whom we will rely to pass on the savings.

10. The Renewable Electricity Standard (RES) is not an improvement.

The 15% RES standard would be achieved even if we failed to act.

11. Dirty energy options qualify as "renewable"-:

The bill allows polluting industries to qualify as "renewable energy."- Trash incinerators not only emit greenhouse gases, but also emit highly toxic
substances. These plants disproportionately expose communities of color and low-income to the toxics. Biomass burners that allow the use of trees as a fuel source are also defined as "renewable."- Under the bill, neither source of greenhouse gas emissions is counted as contributing to global warming.

12. It undermines our bargaining position in international negotiations in Copenhagen and beyond.

As the biggest per capita polluter, we have a responsibility to take action that is disproportionately stronger than the actions of other countries. It is, in fact, the best way to preserve credibility in the international context.

13. International assistance is much less than demanded by developing countries.

Given the level of climate change that is already in the pipeline, we are going to need to devote major resources toward adaptation. Developing
countries will need it the most, which is why they are calling for much more resources for adaptation and technology transfer than is allocated in this bill. This will also undercut our position in Copenhagen.



I offered eight amendments and cosponsored two more that collectively would have turned the bill into an acceptable starting point. All amendments were not allowed to be offered to the full House. Three amendments endeavored to minimize the damage that will be done by offsets, a method of
achieving greenhouse gas reductions that has already racked up a history of failure to reduce emissions - increasing emissions in some cases - while displacing people in developing countries who rely on the land for their well being.

Three other amendments would have made the federal government a force for change by requiring all federal energy to eventually come from renewable resources, by requiring the federal government to transition to electric and plug-in hybrid cars, and by requiring the installation of solar panels on government rooftops and parking lots. These provisions would accelerate the transition to a green economy.

Another amendment would have moved up the year by which reductions of greenhouse gas emissions were required from 2030 to 2025. It would have encouraged the efficient use of allowances and would have reduced opportunities for speculation by reducing the emission value of an allowance by a third each year.

The last amendment would have removed trash incineration from the definition of renewable energy. Trash incineration is one of the primary sources of environmental injustice in the country. It a primary source of compounds in the air known to cause cancer, asthma, and other chronic diseases. These facilities are disproportionately sited in communities of color and communities of low income. Furthermore, incinerators emit more carbon dioxide per unit of electricity produced than coal-fired power plants.

Passing a weak bill today gives us weak environmental policy tomorrow.



Dennis Kucinich is a congressman from Ohio and a 2008 presidential primary candidate.

http://kucinich.us/index.php

yeahwho
06-28-2009, 07:56 PM
here is a great (but rather lengthy) response from dennis kucinich on the legislation. although he makes a number of tremendous points and counter arguments, which i fully agree with (coal, nuclear, and his amendments to the legislation), i'm not sure i'm 100% with him, yet. [/url][/I]

I agree with you here and also really love Dennis Kucinich.


If your not too busy in the immediate future, how would you like to go on a hot air balloon ride with RobMoney and I?

yeahwho
06-29-2009, 03:11 PM
I'm amazed at the amount of morons alive on earth. The very entity that we elect to represent us haven't a clue or worse, just willingly want to destroy the planet to enable their short-term stay.

So the House passed the Waxman-Markey climate-change bill. In political terms, it was a remarkable achievement.

But 212 representatives voted no. A handful of these no votes came from representatives who considered the bill too weak, but most rejected the bill because they rejected the whole notion that we have to do something about greenhouse gases.

And as I watched the deniers make their arguments, I couldn’t help thinking that I was watching a form of treason — treason against the planet.

To fully appreciate the irresponsibility and immorality of climate-change denial, you need to know about the grim turn taken by the latest climate research.

Betraying the Planet By PAUL KRUGMAN (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/opinion/29krugman.html?_r=1)
Published: June 28, 2009

The complete idiocy of a dying planet continues...

Documad
06-29-2009, 09:24 PM
Will the bill ever get to the senate?

I haven't studied environmental issues in a long long time, but I keep hearing from environmental types that this bill is actually worse than doing nothing. How do you know what to read/who to trust, if you have only limited time and interest?

Bob
06-29-2009, 09:33 PM
Will the bill ever get to the senate?

I haven't studied environmental issues in a long long time, but I keep hearing from environmental types that this bill is actually worse than doing nothing. How do you know what to read/who to trust, if you have only limited time and interest?

my rule of thumb is that if sean hannity promotes it, it's probably wrong

yeahwho
06-29-2009, 10:40 PM
Will the bill ever get to the senate?

I haven't studied environmental issues in a long long time, but I keep hearing from environmental types that this bill is actually worse than doing nothing.

It isn't worse than doing nothing unless people actually believe it is a sweeping bill that encompasses dramatic change or even minimal change. It is a late start, sort of like the old saying a day late and a dollar short. What's really disturbing to me is the denial of science, mathematical evidence and corporate influence. It's pathetic and a sad statement that I'm not sure anybodies children will ever understand. These leaders do not lead, they obey.

How do you know what to read/who to trust, if you have only limited time and interest?

Actually start slow, read both sides of the story. One increment at a time. I've been slightly more than interested in our environment for years, but I'm coming from a very heavily wooded part of the Country and I know what we will lose, I've already witnessed the demise of whole sections of countryside and farmland acreage for nothing but manufacturing and strip mall lifestyles.

If I were to tell anybody how to begin investigating the environment I say start here.... Bill O'Reilly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u00JcGSBcwQ), who believes in "Global Warming and thinks only God knows why it's happening, Bill says he has a hunch that God didn't put the gook in the air, we did put the gook in the air and that because we (humans) put it in the air we (humans) are responsible.

Then after Bill try some other sites