there are still clubs that won't accept minorities?

[b i o n i c]

STILL???

According to NBC affiliate in Philadelphia, the Creative Steps Day Camp paid over $1900 for their campers to have swimming privileges at the Valley Swim Club, a private club that advertises open membership, but when the Creative Steps people showed up at the pool with their campers, there were, uh, issues.

"I heard this lady, she was like, 'Uh, what are all these black kids doing here?' She's like, 'I'm scared they might do something to my child,'" said camper Dymire Baylor.

"When the minority children got in the pool all of the Caucasian children immediately exited the pool," Horace Gibson, parent of a day camp child, wrote in an email. "The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately."

http://gawker.com/5310572/its-not-always-progressive-in-philadelphia

these clubs allow certain amount guest admissions per member per summer (i think i paid like $5 for a cabana key). i remember being looked at weird on many many occasions when i went to the club with my friends - i remember that clearly. i didnt know how to handle it then. i was like 10-12.. i just wanted to go swimming with my friends. and this wasnt alabama or tenessee, this was 25 minutes from manhattan.

this article brings back memories i think i've sort of repressed. i really didnt think this still went on in such an plainly open manner.

i remember a couple kids i went to school with straight up told me their parents didnt want me to come. my parents didnt belong to any clubs mainly because they're ridiculously expensive, and probably because they knew better. if i wanted to go swimming i could go to the local school pool by myself (no one in town went there except old people) or go where all my classmates/friends would be. i eventually just stopped going or wanting to go

i remember, when my sister got older, feeling... i dunno... weird? hurt? she's fair and she would get invited all the time. i remember in at least two cases, she was going with the siblings of friends i had whose parents didnt want me to come, so it was obviously about appearance. and its not like i was a rowdy kid at that point. i was well behaved, i was a good student.. my parents made sure i was well dressed and all that. i didnt go batshit till i got to high school

when you're little you just want to fit in. you're not mature enough to say "fuck that shit, i'll just go ride my bike or something" instead.

i realize i could've had no choice but to play in a fire hydrant instead. maybe i should shut up. and yeah, who wants to be be around people like that anyway, right?

but still... what the fuck, world? im pretty sure its legal and all, but enough people are still (cowardly? conveniently quiet?) alright to keep these policies going? i would love to know who these people are

[hpdrifter]

These things still amaze me though I suppose they shouldn't.

That's really sad.

[TurdBerglar]

wait

bionic is black?

[jabumbo]

what amazes me more than the club policy is how the people there reacted so terribly.

[Dorothy Wood]

I'm completely shocked by the story, especially by the president of the club's statement afterward:

"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club."



I mean, what kind of a crazy moron would use that terminology after such an incident?!

*brain explodes*

[b i o n i c]

what bothers me more than the adults being racist, is them teaching their children to be racist

a lot of things have gotten better - there's no doubt about that - but i dont think things have changed quite as much as we are told.

some people have figured out different ways to be just the same as a lot of people were generations ago.
some people have gotten better at hiding whats not "pc" anymore and presenting their prejudices in ways that are more difficult to point out.


as sad as an article like that is or the fact that it still goes on surprises some, there're still too many people quietly nodding to themselves and looking the other way


someone posted the phone number <its in the second comment under the article>, i was thinking of introducing myself as juan and asking about memberships

but then again, this is just one out of thousands of clubs like it. i think the best thing to do isnt to harass them or protest or al sharpton crap or whatever... the solution has to come from within. people with a conscience should just stop being members. things change fast when you bring money into the equation. in fact, *sometimes* i think money is the only way to make things happen.

[HEIRESS]

Obama should just randomly stop by for a dip in the pool.

[b i o n i c]

i used to caddy at this golf club thats always on the pga. they had a no blacks no jews policy (probably still do). there was the rare white/euro/hispanic, like my sister, who got by and i could only identify by the name on their bag.

there was was some sort of tournament with mostly nhl, mlb but some nba players. and it was pretty much only on that day that i remember a bunch of the regular members brought their black friends/business associates.

so yeah, obama could probably go and have no idea what an average day is like there. he might even enjoy himself.

[destructo]

Obama should just randomly stop by for a dip in the pool.

I'm sure they voted for the other guy.

[peterclamp]

I find this so bizarre, but unfortunately it is parenting and environment which breeds racist tendancies and keeps them going. Whilst everyone has a free mind to choose how they feel about people of different colour and creed, if all they have ever known from their parents, family associates and peers is racisim then I guess it is similar to brainwashing and difficult to shake off.

I am thankful for my parents and growing up environment I guess, skin colour, race or religion never enter my mind when interacting with others.

Well except for Pikeys.

But only because without fail, they always try and steal from my shop. Bastards. I am sure that there are some nice, kind, gentle and honest ones out there, I just never get to meet them :D

[RobMoney$]

Don't people have a right to determine who they socialize with?

[b i o n i c]

apparently they do have the right.

just because people have the right to be racist doesnt make it right.

[RobMoney$]

From what I understand (this is third hand info, from a friend whose wife was there) the kids were pretty out of control. Thus the reason they were asked to not come back.
But, since the powers that be there are morons who can't properly articulate what they want to say, the embarassing quote got blurted out and the press ran with it.

For what it's worth, this place is about 90% Jewish and isn't even in the city limits.

[b i o n i c]

i don't believe that the guy just made a mistake, like words that he totally doesnt believe just flew out of his mouth by accident. do you believe that? was he drunk or something?

obviously if he had thought a little more about it, he might have exercised more tact. it was a slip of the tongue and he said what he really meant.

there was more than one quote from more than one person. and either way, its pretty clear they didnt want black kids at their pool.

not to mention the fact that there are still thousands of clubs around the country (i dont know about other countries) that still have unspoken no blacks, no jew policies. yeah, jews can be racist. anyone can be racist.

and no -- ain't blamin this one on the jews! i knew someone by the same name and they are protestant.* chances are so was the guy you're referring to

[RobMoney$]

I don't want to get into a position of defending this guys' moronic statement, but for what it's worth this was the first thing that popped up in a google search.


http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/50479847.html?cmpid=15585797
Pool president: Safety, not race, is the issue

By Joelle Farrell, Derrick Nunnally and Zoe Tillman
INQUIRER STAFF WRITERS
The president of a suburban swim club at the center of a racial discrimination controversy said today safety factors - not racism - prompted the pool to rescind a contract with a Northeast Philadelphia day camp.
John Duesler also said he chose his words poorly in an earlier statement explaining why the Valley Club was ending its arrangement with the predominantly black and Hispanic camp.
In that statement to NBC10, he had said, "There is a lot of concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion ... the atmosphere of the club."
"This is a terrible misinterpretation of what I stand for. This is just wrong," Duesler said while standing with his wife Bernice at the pool's gate. "That was a terrible choice of words, I admit."
He said that what he meant to convey was the number of campers in the pool compared to the number of available lifeguards had created an unsafe environment.
"It was just too many kids on top of each other," Duesler said. "Many of them couldn't swim."
He said the pool's board did not properly think through the demands of handling a large number of campers.
Duesler spoke a day after a state agency announced it was investigating the Huntingdon Valley swim club for possible racial discrimination after revoking the contract.
Officials and antidiscrimination groups expressed concern over the allegedly race-motivated decision and protesters assembled outside the Valley Club's locked gates twice yesterday.
Among them were Silvia Carvalho, 32, of Northeast Philadelphia, and her daughter, Araceli Bagwell, 9, who had been among the city campers swimming at the club.
"This is pathetic," Carvalho said. "The next day, she was telling me she was a minority. I don't want her looking at herself that way. We are not going to allow someone to humiliate us like this."
Homer Floyd, executive director of the state Human Relations Commission, said the civil-rights agency began its investigation after receiving requests from the NAACP and other groups.
"We thought that with issues like this - swim clubs and so forth - we had crossed that hurdle, but clearly we have not," Floyd said.
In a letter to the club, U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter (D., Pa.) suggested the day campers be allowed to return.
On June 29, 65 black and Hispanic children from the city camp Creative Steps Inc. made their first visit to the Montgomery County club and heard some members make racial remarks and escort their own children away from the pool, Creative Steps executive director Aletha Wright said.
Last Friday, the Valley Club refunded a $1,950 check to the camp in Oxford Circle to terminate the agreement allowing children from kindergarten through seventh grade to swim at the club.
A statement on the club's Web site yesterday said its leaders were "deeply troubled by the recent allegations of racism, which are completely untrue."
The statement says the day campers were turned away because they overwhelmed the 110,000-gallon pool.
"We quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities, and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps," the statement says.
A worker at another Northeast Philadelphia day camp that had an agreement to use the Valley Club this summer, Storybook Children's Center, said she believed the club's account.
Monica Scanlon said that she took 25 children of diverse ethnicities to the club pool this summer, but that the noise had clearly been too great for comfort.
Valley Club president John Duesler apologetically refunded Storybook's money, as he did for Creative Steps.
"He was trying to help us out, because there weren't supposed to be city pools open this year," said Scanlon, who contacted The Inquirer after learning of the controversy.
By phone, Valley Club board member Fred Helbig, 71, said that he had not heard any race-related comments at the pool on June 29 and that the club does not discriminate.
"We have people who are black, people who are Asian, and Russians and Jewish people," Helbig said.
Other board members could not be reached for comment.
The club, which is unaffiliated with the Huntingdon Valley Country Club, is just outside Philadelphia's city limits and was founded in 1954, when pressure was emanating from within the city to integrate pools. In 1953, State Sen. Charles R. Weiner (R., Phila.) had offered a bill to desegregate all public pools. In 1951, the Rev. Harrison DeShields of South Philadelphia sued pool operators across the city and suburbs, alleging discrimination.
The new allegations against the Valley Club prompted questions of whether it was resisting decades of racial progress.

[Schmeltz]

From what I understand (this is third hand info, from a friend whose wife was there) the kids were pretty out of control. Thus the reason they were asked to not come back.

A club member told a newspaper that she understood the problem was the size of the group, not race. But Wright rejected that explanation, saying the club covers 10 acres with a "nice-sized" pool and a separate pool for younger children. The board, she said, knew that her group included 65 children, and none of them had misbehaved.

Yahoo news (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090709/world/us_swim_club_blacks_1). People might have the right to be ignorant and foolish in choosing their own associates, but it's disgusting to think that any institution in this day and age would turn business away because of the skin colour of potential customers. If that's really what happened here.

[YoungRemy]

They should limit the field trips to 10 or 12 deserving kids to make sure the ratios are fair and that the lifeguards at the swim club don't have to be overstressed with unruly kids.

I blame the head of the Program and the person who accepted their check before setting some guidelines...

It doesn't matter what race the kids are. when you take kids that don't normally swim to a community pool or a private country club, they are going to go bananas.

That's how I run a Field Trip, Biatch.

[funk63]

In all fairness black people shit in pools.

[YoungRemy]

Welcome to our OOL.

Notice there is no 'P' in it.

Please keep it that way.

[funk63]

What do you people think of this? http://www.ohio.com/news/50172282.html

[Bob]

What do you people think of this? http://www.ohio.com/news/50172282.html

yes yes you hate black people, we know

[Schmeltz]

What do you people think of this? http://www.ohio.com/news/50172282.html

YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS THOUGH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade)

[RobMoney$]

Ok Schmeltzy Schmeltz, that's enough out of you. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_guilt)

[b i o n i c]

re: the article you posted.. i'll take the club president's word for it when he spoke BEFORE the public relations people got involved. they obviously didnt want those kids there and he didnt just pull the line about "changing the complexion and atmosphere" thing out of the sky.

more than some wannabe club in pennsylvania, this article made me think about the bigger issue.. which is the fact that there are still so many clubs that exclude minorities around the country. and i mean real clubs where true 'movers and shakers' go, not just some little 'swim club' in bumblefuck pennsylvania. augusta, winged foot, dallas cc, forest lake whatever.. like a million other ones. people that go to these are people who have their hands in so many other parts of our society, these people make decisions that matter.

what is there to say about people's right to socialize with whomever they want? what's that all about?

[funk63]

YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS THOUGH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade)

Shit's small time.

[b i o n i c]

why the hatorashinz, funk?

[RobMoney$]

re: the article you posted.. i'll take the club president's word for it when he spoke BEFORE the public relations people got involved. they obviously didnt want those kids there and he didnt just pull the line about "changing the complexion and atmosphere" thing out of the sky.

more than some wannabe club in pennsylvania, this article made me think about the bigger issue.. which is the fact that there are still so many clubs that exclude minorities around the country. and i mean real clubs where true 'movers and shakers' go, not just some little 'swim club' in bumblefuck pennsylvania. augusta, winged foot, dallas cc, forest lake whatever.. like a million other ones. people that go to these are people who have their hands in so many other parts of our society, these people make decisions that matter.

what is there to say about people's right to socialize with whomever they want? what's that all about?


Just because people choose to belong to a private club doesn't make them racist.
Perhaps these "movers and shakers" choose to socialize together because they don't feel like being bothered by the public on their down time. Other "movers and shakers" and their families would likely be considerate and mindful of that desire for privacy.
Perhaps they feel like taking their kids to a pool where it's not mass mayhem with hundreds of kids who lack parental supervision and are out of control.
Perhaps they want to go to a place where they know the public isn't pissing in the pool.
That doesn't make them racist, that's perfectly understandable.
There's nothing stopping people of other races or from other parts of society from forming their own private club.

When your family and friends get together for a function such as a BBQ, do you make it open to the public?
You have the right to socialize in private and and also exclude whomever you want.


The private clubs you're referring to like Augusta National, Shinnecock, and Winged Foot are non-profit. They're owned by the membership and they rely on membership fees, food and beverage sales, and the yearly tournament for income to operate and make improvements and usually are not nearly as expensive as the big time "public" clubs. It's not about how much money you have, (having money is kind of besides the point and is expected) it's about being a "blue-blood" and wanting to socialize with other "blue-bloods".

Many of the major "public" clubs like Liberty National are often the centerpiece of a real-estate development and membership fees are often part of (well, go along with) the price of a home in the develpoment. Obviously this type of club accepts anyone who has the equity to purchase a property in the development. Memberships at these kinds of clube are usually much more expensive than the "blue-blood" type of club I described above. "Blue-Bloods" are usually around $70g's, Real-Estate private clubs are usually around $150g's.
Also, along with the $150g's, whenever the club needs improvements such as rebuilding sand bunkers, or sterilizing the pool because someone dropped a Baby Ruth in there, members are acessed those fees yearly. Initial $150g membership fees are largely refundable if you ever leave the club tho.

[funk63]

why the hatorashinz, funk?

I actually googled hatorashinz thinking it was something in japanese and then I was like Ohhh.

[b i o n i c]

Just because people choose to belong to a private club doesn't make them racist.

maybe not, but belonging to and ongoingly supporting a club that clearly excludes based on skin color or religion (and being aware of it) doesnt exactly make one a tolerant humanitarian. if you see someone committing a crime and you do nothing about it, im pretty sure there is a degree of complicity going on there. so i might actually go so far as to say, yeah if you belong to such a club (one that excludes based on race or religion) youre at least a little racist.. at least.

and this includes clubs with the token minority family admitted for appearances. this happens.

Perhaps these "movers and shakers" choose to socialize together because they don't feel like bein bothered by the public on their down time.
Other "movers and shakers" and their families would likely be considerate and mindful of that desire for privacy.

i'm not really connecting how this has to do with excluding people based on race, skin color or religion. is "the public" black?


Perhaps they feel like taking their kids to a pool where it's not mass mayhem with hundreds of kids who lack parental supervision and are out of control.

this i can sort of understand, but the last time i went to a club pool it was just as "rowdy" as the astoria park public pool, maybe not exactly the same, but kids will be kids no matter what. regardless, this is a socio-economic thing. there's no doubt that lower income kids have had the same amount and kind of attention from their parents and thus may not be as well behaved. but again, this is a socio-economic thing which is built into the financial exclusivity of memberships at clubs - not race or religion.

there were lifeguards both places and the only difference was that the rich kids' parents were either playing golf or getting drunk on mamosas on the terrace. and the kids at the public pool were generally of a darker complexion. the existence of a much greater degree of "parental supervision" at clubs is an illusion.

besides that though, does that imply that the kids of brain surgeon dr. pedro rodriguez are gonna be loud maniacs that piss and poop all over the pool because their skin is darker?

i do see a bit of validity to this one except that most of the people who join these clubs don't do so for the quality of their kid's swimming experience but for the social circles they are buying into, the quality of the golf courses and, yes, the plain ole cachet..

Perhaps they want to go to a place where they know the public isn't pissing in the pool.
That doesn't make them racist, that's perfectly understandable.

how do they know this? is there something in the dna of rich white kids that makes them incapable of pissing in pools?

There's nothing stopping people of other races or from other parts of society from forming their own private club.

and they do, like the two jewish clubs in my hometown that are equally elitist and racist. and really - the most part, who cares... if a bunch of old greek dudes want to start a storefront club in queens to play cards and drink at, good on em. in my opinion, its kind of a different thing when we're talking about clubs that "outsiders" may want to be a part of or a clubs where politicians, ceo's and people who directly or indirectly influence society go to. i really don't think the whole idea of racially exclusive clubs breeds anything really positive, i dunno maybe im wrong.

When your family and friends get together for a function such as a BBQ, do you make it open to the public?

no, but if one of my guests wanted to bring their black significant other i wouldnt look down my nose at them. if one of my black friends wanted to bring some jewish friends i wouldnt be mad. i wouldnt tell someone they could bring their hispanic girlfriend so long as she looks white. and im not saying they should put a cashier at the door and let anyone who wants to go in. im talking about them excluding membership based on race, skin color and religion.

The private clubs you're referring to like Augusta National, Shinnecock, and Winged Foot are non-profit. They're owned by the membership and they rely on membership fees, food and beverage sales, and the yearly tournament for income to operate and make improvements and usually are not nearly as expensive as the big time "public" clubs. It's not about how much money you have, (having money is kind of besides the point and is expected) it's about being a "blue-blood" and wanting to socialize with other "blue-bloods".

i heard winged foot, for example, does not want to part of the pga anymore for a bunch of reasons, one of them being all the "riff raff"/commotion it brings to town. and you're right about it not being about money, they denied the don membership a few years back - which might be why he built t rump national. the financial means of exclusion are kind of built into the costs of membership as a first step of the weeding out process, after that its about sponsorship where something like three member families have to "recommend" you for admission. the real estate clubs or whatever can't do that i dont think.

the whole "blue-bloods" wanting to be with "blue-bloods" thing sounds kind of racist in itself. aside from that, europeans and white hispanics arent "blue-bloods" and i havent seen them excluded or discriminated against to the same degree from what i've seen.

Many of the major "public" clubs like Liberty National are often the centerpiece of a real-estate development and membership fees are often part of (well, go along with) the price of a home in the develpoment. Obviously this type of club accepts anyone who has the equity to purchase a property in the development. Memberships at these kinds of clubs are usually much more expensive than the "blue-blood" type of club I described above. "Blue-Bloods" are usually around $70g's, Real-Estate private clubs are usually around $150g's.

i'm aware of the distinctions but they dont have a lot to do with this discussion.

Also, along with the $150g's, whenever the club needs improvements such as rebuilding sand bunkers, or sterilizing the pool because someone dropped a Baby Ruth in there, members are acessed those fees yearly. Initial $150g membership fees are largely refundable if you ever leave the club tho.

you mean the initiation fee? it doesn't matter anyway. with all due respect, to even consider that as some sort of justification for racial exclusion is just laughable. i did chuckle at baby ruth, lol

[b i o n i c]

I actually googled hatorashinz thinking it was something in japanese and then I was like Ohhh.

haha

[b i o n i c]

cute.. the club is now reconsidering (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/12/pennsylvania.pool.problems/index.html). But d'aint (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/14/pennsylvania.pool.problems/index.html) havin it(y)

however, im not sure lawsuits will really change much

[b i o n i c]

whappened, r$? forfeit? dl list? :mad:

[RobMoney$]

Were you debating with me?
I thought you were just venting your feelings about the story.


Ok, I'll oblige if you want.

Huntingdon Valley knew these kids would be mostly minorities when they accepted their initial application. Most of the city pools were not supposed to even be open this year because of the financial bind I imagine most of the country finds itself in.

It's blantly obvious when a day camp from Oxford Circle, an inner city, large minority neighborhood applies for a membership, what you're taking on.
I know this club, I have friends who belong to this club.
There are minorities who are members there, and there have been other day camps consisting of mostly minorities who have enjoyed swimming there.
I honestly believe this had nothing to do with race and everything to do with too many kids being out of control all at once.

This is from the story I posted above, I think you'll find that it backs up my claims.:


A worker at another Northeast Philadelphia day camp that had an agreement to use the Valley Club this summer, Storybook Children's Center, said she believed the club's account.
Monica Scanlon said that she took 25 children of diverse ethnicities to the club pool this summer, but that the noise had clearly been too great for comfort.
Valley Club president John Duesler apologetically refunded Storybook's money, as he did for Creative Steps.
"He was trying to help us out, because there weren't supposed to be city pools open this year," said Scanlon, who contacted The Inquirer after learning of the controversy.
By phone, Valley Club board member Fred Helbig, 71, said that he had not heard any race-related comments at the pool on June 29 and that the club does not discriminate.
"We have people who are black, people who are Asian, and Russians and Jewish people," Helbig said