how honest are you with people?

[b i o n i c]

im not talking like, would you cheat on your taxes, your wife or an exam. or like would you rob a bank or whatever. i mean when you talk to people, your friends and / or family.

i have a big problem with some people i care about not saying whats really on their mind when it comes to disagreements.

ive brought it up with some people im close to, but i dont think they really get what im saying. they usually end up offended or pissed or, naturally, just kind of avoiding the whole conversation.

i really think that part of the strength of relationships comes from dealing with disagreements constructively. because there will always be disagreements. in my opinion, you don't get what you want in life if you dont ask for it.

two of my childhood friends and a few of my family members are BIG TIME like this. they will do anything to avoid any kind of confrontation. i love em but i fucking hate that. i like honesty, openness and the exchange of ideas. im not closed to being wrong about things, i feel like people like this just dont want to be challenged so they skirt everything. is it an authority thing? what the fuck is it? i swear i dont understand it.

they're libras and virgos - im generally the opposite of superstitious, but ive really found a lot of libras to be this way. they're fucking awesome in so many other ways. but sheeezissss!! i really woudlnt give a shit if i didnt like em, i want to know whats up!

it comes off to me as passive aggressive at most and a little dishonest at least.

just fuckin spill it!

[Echewta]

Not everyone is born or taught with the proper communication skills. My parents divorced when I was very young and I grew up lying to them to keep the peace and it carried on into my adulthood. Never wanting to rock the boat which meant I sacrificed my own happiness and basically lied to those I loved, even though I considered myself a good and honest person.

This book helped alot:
Too Nice For Your Own Good (http://www.amazon.com/Too-Nice-Your-Good-Self-Sabotaging/dp/0446673862)

I do a much better job "spilling it" then I have before.

[Myu-to]

they're libras and virgos
Hahahahahahahahaha...

Tell me that you are not fuckin' serious.

They are passive agressive, and it might take time to trust that you mean what you say when you say "tell me." They probably don't like it when you are so direct.

Just deal with it.

[Videodrome]

i'm brutally honest, always.

[b i o n i c]

hmm i may order a box of those books to keep handy, maybe a dispenser for them too..

i wouldnt call you a bad person for being like that. the way it makes the other person feel is that their opinion doesnt matter and that their perpsective is not open to consideration. thing is, i would want to know the other person's perspective, sometimes i desperately want to know why they disagree with me.. maybe they're right and i'm wrong, you know? in situations like this when a person like that is met with a person like me, it feels like im doing all the heavy lifting without even knowing if there's a shelf there for me to rest on.

i see it as self destructive because if the other person cared to explain why they disagree with me, there's a good chance i might change my mind - and we could both be happier for it. otherwise its like they're just digging their heels in for the sake of not budging and someone like my is left to just be pissed at not being given the opportunity to state their point of view.

what i meant by dishonest is when the other person wont say if something is bothering them, kinda like "sure, yeah ok" when in fact something is. it creates a bit of resentment because i think i can tell when im being yessed away and that person is sort of giving me license to do things that make them kinda secretly mad at me, i dont KNOW what the problem is. its a false sense of superficial peace i think, the problems only brew harder underneath it all. its like a trap.

that book seems interesting, i dont really know how it goes about explaining how to change. from the title it slightly seems to be giving avoiders permission to be more stubborn(?). or maybe is shows people how to open up to discussion? caint judge a book by its cover, right?

like i said, this is about people i like. i couldnt care less how anyone else wants to be, im not really out to communicate with passive aggressive people i dont respect

[b i o n i c]

blah blah

of course im fucking serious. im always fucking serious. for fuckitty-fucks sake

[Dorothy Wood]

I'm a bit too honest sometimes, I should probably withhold more information than I do. recently I've been caught up between people who tell me different things where one person will say there was a fight and the other person will say there wasn't a fight...so I'm like, "oh, um, nevermind then" and then the person who didn't think there was a fight now is mad at me and the other person for saying they were in a fight. :(

I should've just minded my business. and these are all men, so of course they won't even talk to each other about it, just me and then I'm stuck in the middle like a chump because I'm such a blabbermouth.


anywayyyy, sometimes I do lie about stupid things. like when I went to buy rolling papers for tobacco, I didn't know what kind to get, so I lied and said they weren't for me instead of saying, "oh, I just started rolling cigarettes, I don't really know what kind to get" :rolleyes: but then the guy could tell I was lying, and assumed I was buying them for joints (I wasn't). so he was like, "well, your friend can roll whatever she likes with these" and I was like, "oh, ha...yep, just for tobacco" and he was like, "okay then, ;)"

so I left feeling like a total weirdo.

another time I was talking to this girl who was from michigan and she asked me what school I went to, and I said U of M, and she said, "yeah, Ann Arbor's great" and I was like, "oh yeah, it is, I just went there freshman year". but I went to the commuter campus in Dearborn and just never corrected her. she even started asking me who I knew and whatnot and I was like, "oh, hey, I gotta go over there, k bye". and ran away.

sorry this isn't the kind of dishonesty you're talking about, bionic.

[b i o n i c]

well thats another part of what i was asking.. that sort of goes with how honest you are with people you dont 'respect'.. in that sense i might just yes something away because, like, who cares?

like some big old weird psychotic homeless dude on the train who decides to sit next to you and rant about how the mang has kept him down. and goes on and on for 100 blocks about how his ex wifes a murderous whore.. before his crackpipe falls onto the seat behind him. you kind of just yessssss people like that away, right? or get cut

i had this great yellow michigan hat i wore just because i liked the shade of yellow. this one time at a bar some drunk dude walked by and was all 'yeeeeaaah michigaaaan, derrrrff!!!! fellowwww alooom, right? *drool*' and of course i high fived him because i was(nt) and just nodded hoping he'd go away. but he didnt. did you know that the yellow symbolizes the solid gold heart of michigan's spirit? it doesnt, but i got a beer for reminding him(y)

[Kid Presentable]

I lie all the time. Who cares? People only want an answer, they don't care what it is.

[DipDipDive]

I'm always honest. I don't lie. At my worst, I'm withholding. I've become a bit non-confrontational as I've gotten older, particularly with my friends. I get quiet when I'm upset with them or a situation involving them and hope that they'll ask me what's wrong rather than just vocalizing what's on my mind. I need to knock that shit off.

To that end, bionic, I think people are more comfortable with the illusion of harmony regardless of what underlying issues may exist, and are also afraid of what ugly truth confrontation may reveal. It's easier to rest with the notion that the issues will just disappear eventually. It doesn't make sense, but fear is irrational in most cases, and that's ultimately the root of the problem. Fear, that is.

[b i o n i c]

I lie all the time. Who cares? People only want an answer, they don't care what it is.

i say shit like that when im mad


To that end, bionic, I think people are more comfortable with the illusion of harmony regardless of what underlying issues may exist, and are also afraid of what ugly truth confrontation may reveal. It's easier to rest with the notion that the issues will just disappear eventually. It doesn't make sense, but fear is irrational in most cases, and that's ultimately the root of the problem. Fear, that is.

hmm. that makes sense.. fear 'of an ugly truth' is the part that kinda digs at me. (i know this isnt you and youre kind of being a devils advocate) for some reason that reminds me of hiding under the covers as a little kid. preferring to imagine all the creepy monsters writhing and slithering just outside the confines of the cocoon all night... instead of just getting up, walking across the room, turning on the light and looking around to see there's nothing there - all that worry for nothing. the assumption that somehow the truth is ugly and being assigned as the bearer of that.

i get what you're saying and, its true, that none of this makes a whole lot of sense.

[Kid Presentable]

i say shit like that when im mad
Really? I say it when I'm being honest.

I guess if I'm being honest, then I'll say this particular discussion is circuitous, and is yet to deliver any insight. Do you honestly feel like it's helped? Are you honestly not just posting this to have one of those 'paragraph heavy' threads? I don't think we're getting to the heart of the issue, honestly.

[b i o n i c]

be my guest! you're being a bit of an avoider yourself posting one sentence.. ;P

i really dont know. there would probably need to be more of the avoider types to make it go somewhere. so far echewta has been the only ex avoider to offer any insight and ddd said something that made me think a bit.

[Fern]

Not very. i tend to tell others what they want to hear...

[jennyb]

*orders copy of book*

I hate how I tend to agree with everyone just to go with the flow. Rarely if ever do I rock the boat and when someone rocks it I jump out and swim to shore....... I'm really trying to let my true feelings and thoughts be known more but the only people who really hear them are those who know how to let me feel comfortable to do so. My man for one, is one of the only people that really lets me feel comfortable to state what I want and what I'm thinking. But I really need to know how to do this with everyone and I feel ill-equipped to do so. :( I even got a tattoo and it's main purpose is to be there to remind me to be forthright with everyone what's in my heart and to stand up for it.

In the end behaving like this only hurts yourself.

ps... I'm a Libra

[nodanaonlyzuul]

Not everyone is born or taught with the proper communication skills.

Definitely.

I grew up in a "my way or the highway" household and so I was never allowed to speak up, say no, or share what's really on my mind. The few times I tried, I was punished, and learned to never do it again.

That turned me in to a total avoidant personality. Which is not healthy of course. It took some hard lessons and self reflection and now I do my best to speak up.

I can see how it can be frustrating to a person dealing with someone who is avoidant and not honest with how they really feel or what they are really thinking. Not sure what advice to give other than maybe explaining to them that it's best to have clear communication and making them feel like it's 'safe' for them to be honest...

[Kid Presentable]

I think the people saying they are honest are liars. Exaggerating at least. And to expect others to engage in conflict exactly as you yourself would (a general 'you' not someone in particular) shows very low emotional intelligence.

Why is wanting a confrontation a good thing? Sure, there's a good side to honesty, but bionic, it sounds like you just want people to indulge you. What say you?

[Randetica]

I think the people saying they are honest are liars. Exaggerating at least. And to expect others to engage in conflict exactly as you yourself would (a general 'you' not someone in particular) shows very low emotional intelligence.


das right

[Myu-to]

i get what you're saying and, its true, that none of this makes a whole lot of sense.
Maybe you're confused because Aries in rising in Uranus.

[funk63]

My brain is a fucking nightmare. I lie like it's in style and for no reason.
Or do I?

[Dorothy Wood]

Definitely.

I grew up in a "my way or the highway" household and so I was never allowed to speak up, say no, or share what's really on my mind. The few times I tried, I was punished, and learned to never do it again.

That turned me in to a total avoidant personality. Which is not healthy of course. It took some hard lessons and self reflection and now I do my best to speak up.

I can see how it can be frustrating to a person dealing with someone who is avoidant and not honest with how they really feel or what they are really thinking. Not sure what advice to give other than maybe explaining to them that it's best to have clear communication and making them feel like it's 'safe' for them to be honest...


hmm, I think what you just said makes me understand better why I both avoid things and confront things. my father was very much the kind of man who ran our house in a "my way or the highway" manner. he was the type to say "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" to me when I was just 5 years old and scraped my knee or something. I think that my mother and I leaving him kind of broke the spell or something, but I definitely still have that fear in me...fear of making mistakes, fear of upsetting people. but unfortunately also inherited or learned a sort of arrogance and need to control from him too. my mom has always recognized what she refers to as a "mean streak" in me.

I think I'd actually be a lot more fucked up if he'd continued taking part in raising me though.


as for lying to keep the peace, I think that's just a development of humanity and socialization. I'm not lying when I say I'm honest. I'm honest to a fault a lot of times...which is probably a result of me being unsocial, or am I unsocial because I'm honest?

anyway, I think that humans are curious creatures who for the most part want truth. and as communication expands, I think people are crying out for truth more than ever...but at the same time seek privacy and secrecy when it becomes too much.

[b i o n i c]

as for lying to keep the peace, I think that's just a development of humanity and socialization. I'm not lying when I say I'm honest. I'm honest to a fault a lot of times...which is probably a result of me being unsocial, or am I unsocial because I'm honest?

anyway, I think that humans are curious creatures who for the most part want truth. and as communication expands, I think people are crying out for truth more than ever...but at the same time seek privacy and secrecy when it becomes too much.

i agree with the keeping the peace part. and as i've gotten older, ive become much better at choosing my "battles" (bad word to use... neg connotations). i think that my earlier stages or being "confrontational" did serve the purpose of allowing me to learn certain general things about people, so i dont really have to do it again. the keeping the peace thing is good, and i don't care to discuss everything with everyone. like i said before, certain things you just let go. this isnt a general issue with me, im talking about when this pops up with people i care about.


ps... I'm a Libra
haha! seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

disclaimer: i dont think all libras are like this or that people like this have to be libras. i just said that the ones ive come across HAPPENED TO BE libras

Why is wanting a confrontation a good thing? Sure, there's a good side to honesty, but bionic, it sounds like you just want people to indulge you. What say you?

well, maybe.. im not sure what "indulging" me means. im not saying my way is THE way. im just saying this is how it is with me.

also, when you say "confrontation" and question the value of one, thats a rough way to put it. the word is generally associated with aggression and brings to mind all kinds of negative connotations. discussion?

I grew up in a "my way or the highway" household and so I was never allowed to speak up, say no, or share what's really on my mind. The few times I tried, I was punished, and learned to never do it again.
my parents were sort of like that early on, but my first nickname as a little baby referred to me being a talker. i think they learned that it was easier to talk about it with me than to try and shut me up.

[mickill]

I think the people saying they are honest are liars. Exaggerating at least. And to expect others to engage in conflict exactly as you yourself would (a general 'you' not someone in particular) shows very low emotional intelligence.

Why is wanting a confrontation a good thing? Sure, there's a good side to honesty, but bionic, it sounds like you just want people to indulge you. What say you?

Co-siggy.

I don't even think I'm 100% honest with myself sometimes. If you were just honest, outspoken and didn't withhold anything ever, you not only would be a total dick, you'd also leave yourself susceptible to all types of hurtful shit from other people. Only a child would attempt to live their life this way.

[b i o n i c]

again, who said be honest with everyone all the time?

its not like, "does this dress make me look fat, honey" "no, you make yourself look fat in everything" thing".. duh

find it really childish to be completely stubborn and close minded. its childish to confront everything all the time too. middle ground, peoples

im being a little idealistic. kill me!

[mickill]

It's impossible to be honest with everyone all the time. Just sayin.

[Randetica]

It's impossible to be honest with everyone all the time. Just sayin.

yes it is impossible.

people that say that they are always honest are the biggest liars

[mickill]

people that say that they are always honest are the biggest liars

I agree.

[Randetica]

shut up

[sab0tage]

I was brought up in a family that didn't communicate with one another. Yeah we talked, but not about anything that actually meant anything, nothing to do with feelings.

At work I have no problem disagreeing with people, speaking my mind when I think I am right or telling somene they have pissed me off (apart from with the people I consider friends).

My problem is when it comes to people I care about. If a friend has pissed me off I find it hard to tell them. I just can't seem to bring myself to say anything. I don't try to dwell on it too much as I know it's my fault that it doesn't get resolved and I know if it was out in the open it would be a lot healthier and would probably be quickly resolved but it can fester inside sometimes. I hate confrontation with friends. That said I am fairly laid back so it takes a lot to piss me off.

I don't really know why I am like this but I guess it could be something to do with my families complete inability to communicate with one another?

I don't think I'm a bad person and don't consider myself to be a dishonest person either but I do feel it is an issue for me and wish I could be more forthcoming.

[b i o n i c]

you know what? i dont wanna talk about it

[beastiegirrl101]

another time I was talking to this girl who was from michigan and she asked me what school I went to, and I said U of M, and she said, "yeah, Ann Arbor's great" and I was like, "oh yeah, it is, I just went there freshman year". but I went to the commuter campus in Dearborn and just never corrected her. she even started asking me who I knew and whatnot and I was like, "oh, hey, I gotta go over there, k bye". and ran away.

I get this all the time when I tell people I went to Columbia, their eyes get wide as they say, "New York, wow" and then I'm usually like, "um, no Columbia College Chicago...um, ha" I really should just nod and walk away.

[jennyb]

lolz me too! I went to University of Wisconsin... and before I get anything else out they start in with GO BADGERS! ...and Madison is rad and stuff, and I went to another UW school but I just roll with it, *shrug*. It's just not worth the time or the confused look on the person's face.