Why We Need Health Care Reform

[yeahwho]

By Barack Obama. The NYTimes Ed/Op page August 15, 2009 (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/opinion/16obama.html)

I like seeing this, no half measures, no soft peddling, a direct pitch from the Nations most read newspaper to every American citizen. He's doing what health care proponents have advocated him doing for the past several months, he's coming out strong and explaining to us, why we need health care reform.

OUR nation is now engaged in a great debate about the future of health care in America. And over the past few weeks, much of the media attention has been focused on the loudest voices. What we haven’t heard are the voices of the millions upon millions of Americans who quietly struggle every day with a system that often works better for the health-insurance companies than it does for them.

This is the guy I voted for.

[RobMoney$]

No soft-peddling? No half-measures? Funny, that's not what I heard...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32437468/ns/politics-white_house

White House ready to drop ‘public option’?

HHS official: Insurance cooperatives would be an acceptable alternative


WASHINGTON - Bowing to Republican pressure and an uneasy public, President Barack Obama's administration signaled Sunday it is ready to abandon the idea of giving Americans the option of government-run insurance as part of a new health care system.
Facing mounting opposition to the overhaul, administration officials left open the chance for a compromise with Republicans that would include health insurance cooperatives instead of a government-run plan. Such a concession would likely enrage his liberal supporters but could deliver Obama a much-needed win on a top domestic priority opposed by GOP lawmakers.
Officials from both political parties reached across the aisle in an effort to find compromises on proposals they left behind when they returned to their districts for an August recess. Obama had wanted the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's almost 50 million uninsured, but didn't include it as one of his three core principles of reform.

[yeahwho]

No soft-peddling? No half-measures? Funny, that's not what I heard...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32437468/ns/politics-white_house

I didn't notice that in the Presidents speech, I did notice a ? after the headline. That means it's questionable. I also have noticed as when all of this began, nothing is off the table.

I guess I should put it to you this way, Obama said nothing is off the table, we "The People" will look at everything and that is exactly what is happening.

Does that perturb your delicate sensibilities? Nothing Obama has done as president has made you happy (the dude has been doing quite a bit) so I guess his doing town halls and writing articles about health care generally proves a point that he is weak in your mind.

What is your point with Obama? Everything he does is wrong?

[travesty]

A very refreshing piece from Barack...I bit out of character as of late but good to see. To me it raises more questions than it answers but it was a good "Big Picture" sales pitch. I think most Amercians are sold on the idea of healthcare reform....it's just the methodology that is in question now. I don't really think anyone would say "the system is great don't do anything".

The first thing I noticed was a glaring omission of the words "public plan" or "public option" as well as any reference to that consept. To see that he is abandoning this idea is a shame. This is confirmed if you read carefully.....

I hear more and more stories like these every single day, and it is why we are acting so urgently to pass health-insurance reform this year.

We are already closer to achieving ]health-insurance reform than we have ever been.

Health CARE reform is obviously dead...now it's just a matter of how much to regulate the private insurance industry. I hope the righties are happy....this is not going to benefit anyone.

I'll save my comments about how his plan simply can not work as he stated it for later. Time for dinner. Once again the corporations have won out.

[RobMoney$]

I didn't notice that in the Presidents speech, I did notice a ? after the headline. That means it's questionable. I also have noticed as when all of this began, nothing is off the table.



I guess I should put it to you this way, Obama said nothing is off the table, we "The People" will look at everything and that is exactly what is happening.



Does that perturb your delicate sensibilities? Nothing Obama has done as president has made you happy (the dude has been doing quite a bit) so I guess his doing town halls and writing articles about health care generally proves a point that he is weak in your mind.



What is your point with Obama? Everything he does is wrong?


I'm not looking to hijack this thread into a "Why I hate Obama" thread.
But briefly, the unprecendented deficit spending just doesn't sit right with me. Call me nuts.

The "Doctors will choose to amputate because they will make more money that way" comment is downright embarrassing coming from the POTUS. It's downright Bush-ian.
He's just another lying politician.


Now, back on topic...

The fact that this "Public Option" is reportedly about to end is a victory for Democracy. We can still have healthcare reform without a public option. More healthcare options is a good thing, Government run public healthcare is not.

It's not about Obama, or Palin, or Democrats, or Republicans.
It's about the will of the people. The majority of Americans were against this, and that's what matters.

Obama has clearly lost the undecided voter over this who thought he was for "hope an change", but now realize that he's just more of the same.
I have to admit that even I didn't see this coming from him, I thought he had more of a spine. Apparently he's just another politician selling out to the millions being spent on lobbying against this.

[Dorothy Wood]

I don't know, I think he's playing it safe on purpose. he's maybe back tracking a bit so he can calm everybody down before they start riots or something.

You can't just go in and change everything all at once, people get scared.


I'm for universal healthcare, but I'm happy to see insurance reform in regard to covering pre-existing conditions and not dropping coverage.

baby steps in the right direction I guess. *shrugs*

[RobMoney$]

I'm all for making sure healthcare is affordable for everyone. I don't want people living in pain because they think they can't afford medical attention.

I'd tell Obama to get this country operating in the black first, and then come back and talk about it. America would likely be a bit more receptive at that point.

[yeahwho]

I'm all for making sure healthcare is affordable for everyone. I don't want people living in pain because they think they can't afford medical attention.

Millions, I've heard varying numbers of how many millions, but this number is a definitive lowball number, 40 million, 40,000,000 of your fellow citizens do not have health insurance. This isn't really a "thinking they can't afford medical attention" question. This is a travesty of gigantic proportions.

I'd tell Obama to get this country operating in the black first, and then come back and talk about it. America would likely be a bit more receptive at that point.

OK, while we work on getting the economy back from the gigantic war and corporate bailout debt lets just see how those sick folks look out in the streets. (y)

[RobMoney$]

OK, while we work on getting the economy back from the gigantic war and corporate bailout debt lets just see how those sick folks look out in the streets. (y)

Hey, it's not my fault the Dems spent all of their political capital on the auto bailout and the stimulus package in the first 6 months.
Hope you're satisfied with those two things.

[travesty]

I'm for universal healthcare, but I'm happy to see insurance reform in regard to covering pre-existing conditions and not dropping coverage.

baby steps in the right direction I guess. *shrugs*

This is EXACTLY why this plan, as he described it, is a Catch 22. Look, exluding pre-existing conditions is a hateful, hateful actuarial practice....it sucks and it's wrong on many, many levels. However you can not make insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions without a HUGE increase in rates. It is impossible. By definition alone you can not even insure a pre-existing condition...you can "finance" it (trust me they know EXACTLY what each condition is going to cost them over the long run) but you can't insure something that has already happened. That defies logic and the basic definition of insurance.

According to Webster-
Insurance- b : coverage by contract whereby one party undertakes to indemnify or guarantee another against loss by a specified contingency or peril

You can't insure a car that has already been crashed and you can't insure a home that is on fire, the contingency or peril you have insured against has already happened.

So if you make the insurance companies factor in the cost to "finance" everybody's pre-existing conditions you can not and will not ever see a reduction in costs. It is simply impossible. In fact our rates will soar.

Not only that but according to the NYT piece.....

Our reform will prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage because of your medical history. Nor will they be allowed to drop your coverage if you get sick. They will not be able to water down your coverage when you need it most. They will no longer be able to place some arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive in a given year or in a lifetime. And we will place a limit on how much you can be charged for out-of-pocket expenses.

AND

elimnate unwarranted subsidies to insurance companies
(what are the "warranted " subsidies to insurance companies??!?!)

How does forcing insurance companies to offer all of that, in a rational world, offer any hope of reducing costs to the public??? Is he serious? I think he may be delusional.

Controlling "inefficiencies" isn't going to be a drop in this bucket. That's like McCain saying he is going to eliminate the national debt by erradicating earmarks. It's laughable.

The only way to cover everybody for everything is to completely, 100% nationalize the entire system and pay for it with taxes. I am not opposed to this option but I don't think it will ever happen due to the forces aligned against it. Either get rid of the insurance companies altogether or don't. I can see no successful middle gound. Either go the capitalist route and free the markets up to real honest competition or be done with them altogether. This is not an issue to playaround with and test a few ideas or we are going to continue to get Band-Aid fixes for a system that has chronic heart problems. I just think our healthcare system is too far down the capitalistic road to change, the insurance companies have too much leeway in Washington and they are using it. Until Washington changes....and I mean REALLY FUCKING CHANGES from the bottom up....this non-sensical half-assery in the name of "compromise" is going to be, to the detriment of us all, the result of every critical issue we face. The next guy will just put more band-aids on to cover the one this guy put on and so on and so on. No one ever takes them all off and stiches the damn wound. In the world of business this kind of management results in a bankrupt company... oh wait WE ARE BANKRUPT! It really is disheartening.:(

[yeahwho]

Hey, it's not my fault the Dems spent all of their political capital on the auto bailout and the stimulus package in the first 6 months.
Hope you're satisfied with those two things.

I know your being flippant, I hope. There is a huge difference between corporate handouts and helping your fellow citizens.

[Dorothy Wood]

This is EXACTLY why this plan, as he described it, is a Catch 22. Look, exluding pre-existing conditions is a hateful, hateful actuarial practice....it sucks and it's wrong on many, many levels. However you can not make insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions without a HUGE increase in rates. It is impossible. By definition alone you can not even insure a pre-existing condition...you can "finance" it (trust me they know EXACTLY what each condition is going to cost them over the long run) but you can't insure something that has already happened. That defies logic and the basic definition of insurance.

According to Webster-


You can't insure a car that has already been crashed and you can't insure a home that is on fire, the contingency or peril you have insured against has already happened.

So if you make the insurance companies factor in the cost to "finance" everybody's pre-existing conditions you can not and will not ever see a reduction in costs. It is simply impossible. In fact our rates will soar.

Not only that but according to the NYT piece.....



AND


(what are the "warranted " subsidies to insurance companies??!?!)

How does forcing insurance companies to offer all of that, in a rational world, offer any hope of reducing costs to the public??? Is he serious? I think he may be delusional.

Controlling "inefficiencies" isn't going to be a drop in this bucket. That's like McCain saying he is going to eliminate the national debt by erradicating earmarks. It's laughable.

The only way to cover everybody for everything is to completely, 100% nationalize the entire system and pay for it with taxes. I am not opposed to this option but I don't think it will ever happen due to the forces aligned against it. Either get rid of the insurance companies altogether or don't. I can see no successful middle gound. Either go the capitalist route and free the markets up to real honest competition or be done with them altogether. This is not an issue to playaround with and test a few ideas or we are going to continue to get Band-Aid fixes for a system that has chronic heart problems. I just think our healthcare system is too far down the capitalistic road to change, the insurance companies have too much leeway in Washington and they are using it. Until Washington changes....and I mean REALLY FUCKING CHANGES from the bottom up....this non-sensical half-assery in the name of "compromise" is going to be, to the detriment of us all, the result of every critical issue we face. The next guy will just put more band-aids on to cover the one this guy put on and so on and so on. No one ever takes them all off and stiches the damn wound. In the world of business this kind of management results in a bankrupt company... oh wait WE ARE BANKRUPT! It really is disheartening.:(


well, this is all very breathless but I guess a lot of it makes sense. I'm no actuary, the only real experience I have with not being covered due to a pre-existing "condition" is not having coverage over my right foot after I broke it and had surgery. I was covered at the time under my mom's husband's insurance, but then I graduated college and had to get new insurance for myself. I filled out gobs of paperwork and they decided to cover me at a fairly low rate, but they wouldn't cover anything relating to my foot. so, say, the screws loosened and started working their way out, I'd have to pay out of pocket to get them removed. which would be like a billion dollars!

thankfully, 6 years later my foot bones and screws are still intact, but sheesh. the insurance I have now, I don't know if they'd cover it...they only asked for a history of the past 5 years. so, huzzah! they don't even know I'm a cyborg.

[travesty]

well, this is all very breathless but I guess a lot of it makes sense. I'm no actuary, the only real experience I have with not being covered due to a pre-existing "condition" is not having coverage over my right foot after I broke it and had surgery. I was covered at the time under my mom's husband's insurance, but then I graduated college and had to get new insurance for myself. I filled out gobs of paperwork and they decided to cover me at a fairly low rate, but they wouldn't cover anything relating to my foot. so, say, the screws loosened and started working their way out, I'd have to pay out of pocket to get them removed. which would be like a billion dollars!

thankfully, 6 years later my foot bones and screws are still intact, but sheesh. the insurance I have now, I don't know if they'd cover it...they only asked for a history of the past 5 years. so, huzzah! they don't even know I'm a cyborg.

I hope those screws stay tight too. That sounds painful. I just wouldn't mention them in any questionaire. Here in NC your new insurance company (if you are changing) has to cover any condition that was covered by the previous insurer. (y)That is unless you have had a six month or more gap in coverage(n)

[yeahwho]

Hey, it's not my fault the Dems spent all of their political capital on the auto bailout and the stimulus package in the first 6 months.
Hope you're satisfied with those two things.

I know your being flippant, I hope. There is a huge difference between corporate handouts and helping your fellow citizens.

You do know the actual timeline and how we ended up where we are financially, don't you? I'm beginning to think you do not actually know reality. Fuck I was going to post a few actual dates with links of the "How, Why, When, Who and Where" for you but fuck it, you say your smarter than all of us who post here so you must know this shit. Right?

[RobMoney$]

but fuck it, you say your smarter than all of us who post here so you must know this shit. Right?

Are you nuts?
Never said that, never implied that, and never will.
I'll leave it as an open challenge to you to link me saying "I'm smarter than you."

The liberal majority who post here are the ones who lord their degrees and their percieved intelligence over my head on an almost daily basis.

I'm not the one with the college degree, I'm the one with the life experience.

[Bob]

I'm the one with the life experience.

which makes you _______ than the rest of us

[RobMoney$]

OLDER?

[Michelle*s_Farm]

The liberal majority who post here are the ones who lord their degrees and their percieved intelligence over my head on an almost daily basis.

I'm not the one with the college degree, I'm the one with the life experience.

I have always been a fan of life experience over the college degree. My family did not have degrees and because I disliked university so much when I was 17 I decided that I would rather educate myself rather than be brainwashed in an institution of so-called higher education. However when I was 22 I started university looking for ideas (I used to paint and my ideas seemed dried up around 1992 -- possibly due to excessive drug use). Now three degrees later I think I am part of the system that I always thought I would avoid like the plague.

There is no point to my post here. But I would like to say that it does not seem right for a person to claim superiority over someone just because they have a degree or multiple degrees (unless of course we are talking black belt degrees in Jeet Kune Do and you wear this track suit (http://www.giantrobot.com/blogs/martin/uploaded_images/fmam_Game-of-Death-793256.jpg)-- "tracksuits" (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Tracksuit) are awesome). It is the posts and thoughts that matter (not some ceremonial piece of paper or lack thereof).

[Michelle*s_Farm]

RobMoney wrote: "I'm all for making sure healthcare is affordable for everyone. I don't want people living in pain because they think they can't afford medical attention."

Fuck that it should be free considering the amount of taxes you pay.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

I saw a story recently (cannot find the source sorry) that the UK has better healthcare than the US (according to the World Health Organisation) and they spend less than the US. Could be an issue of population size though. Hard to say.

[DroppinScience]

I saw a story recently (cannot find the source sorry) that the UK has better healthcare than the US (according to the World Health Organisation) and they spend less than the US. Could be an issue of population size though. Hard to say.

Actually, a lot of the Western democracies can boast to better health care than the US and less spending on it. Doesn't have anything to do with population size since the US spends more PER PERSON than these other countries. Interestingly enough, Lou Dobbs (yeah, THAT guy) has been profiling different countries' health care systems each night on his show stating exactly that.

[travesty]

Actually, a lot of the Western democracies can boast to better health care than the US and less spending on it. Doesn't have anything to do with population size since the US spends more PER PERSON than these other countries. Interestingly enough, Lou Dobbs (yeah, THAT guy) has been profiling different countries' health care systems each night on his show stating exactly that.

I chalk it up to to Americans being some FAT fucking lazy people. Our environment has more to do woith our health problems than even the best medicine can cure. I bet if you swapped any other country's average demographic with ours, our health system would shine and theirs would fail. Until we as a society start to live healthier, no matter what health care system we have it will always be playing catch-up. I mean rationally with the R&D and innovation in the feild that this country produces we should all live to be 200 but as soon as someone says they have cured cancer, everyone starts smoking again. I don't see this rationale prevalent in other countries.

[Echewta]

webmd.com is free. Isn't that good enough?

[freetibet]

By Barack Obama. The NYTimes Ed/Op page August 15, 2009 (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/opinion/16obama.html)

I like seeing this, no half measures, no soft peddling, a direct pitch from the Nations most read newspaper to every American citizen. He's doing what health care proponents have advocated him doing for the past several months, he's coming out strong and explaining to us, why we need health care reform.

(...)

This is the guy I voted for.

Joseph Stalin cared for his nation too. That was the guy they voted* for. LMAO, how can anyone rely on such a communist like BHO and blindly continue to support him in times of SCARY CRISIS?!

Oh, and he's all about soft peddling and stuff.


*Maybe they had no elections - but the love for the Father of the Nation is pretty common among naive lefties.

[saz]

yeah, every western industrialized nation that has public health insurance is clearly communist.

[Bob]

Joseph Stalin cared for his nation too. That was the guy they voted* for. LMAO, how can anyone rely on such a communist like BHO and blindly continue to support him in times of SCARY CRISIS?!

Oh, and he's all about soft peddling and stuff.


*Maybe they had no elections - but the love for the Father of the Nation is pretty common among naive lefties.

great! you're back!

[saz]

yeah, he previously dropped the n-word and was rightly banned for it. why is he back on here?

[freetibet]

I just called BHO what he is. I don't remember using the n-dfff-ig-safaf-er word. He's not bla.. oops African-American. He's African. And most of all - he's RED.

Hell yeah public health care in the Western countries is a symptom of socialist disease.

For years this forum has been an anti-GWB (blessed be his name) propaganda hole. I was curious how it looks now. I pity You for Your foolish belief in that red liar and ignorant. Invisible hand of the free market, that's what we need. Not pumping billions of dollars for bureaucrats and pseudo-banking experts to steal.

America is going down. It's so sad.

[Bob]

it's just every dumb, crazy opinion wrapped up into one little package. you can't possibly be a real person

[DroppinScience]

I like to think of freetibet as the Polish RobMoney.

[freetibet]

And I like to laugh at Your foolish comments (I'm addressing the members of this part of the forum in general). You believe in Obama sooo much You'll never see how wrong You are. You can always blame everything on capitalism, GWB or the very things that built AMERICA. (You should kneel while saying this word, btw.)

"That's the man I voted for." BUAHAHA:rolleyes:

[DroppinScience]

George W. Bush built America? That's news to me. You may want to tell George Washington and Thomas Jefferson the sad news. I guess those assholes did NOTHING.

[RobMoney$]

I like to think of freetibet as the Polish RobMoney.

REALLY?...Racial jokes?
Not a smart move.

[Knuckles]

REALLY?...Racial jokes?
Not a smart move.

Uh... he's from Poland.

[Dorothy Wood]

tee hee

[Bob]

i'm not sure that the polish people were meant to be the butt of that insult

[Michelle*s_Farm]

America is going down. It's so sad.

It is not sad at all. Change is a good thing and it is called evolution. I think countries like Canada, France, New Zealand and the UK (and many others) need to build an economic and social coalition of values and reform to guide the world because clearly America with its centrist capitalistic militaristic quasi-religious agenda is destroying any possibility of a sustainable future (social and otherwise). The world needs to stop looking to America for hope because hope checked out long ago. My desire is that over time such a cross-nation coalition could help America when it grows up, willing to listen and be a bit more humble regarding its place in the world.

[Echewta]

Interesting opinion about Medicare then... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/25/AR2009082501075.html)

[kaiser soze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkrW22u7SwU&eur

scumbag hecklers

Listen closely, they make a big sigh of discontent when she says "Don't let the insurance lobby win this fight."

it is a shame that these people probably believe in a war that is defending their Constitution, but yet can't even let a woman in a wheelchair speak

[freetibet]

(...) because clearly America with its centrist capitalistic militaristic quasi-religious agenda is destroying any possibility of a sustainable future (social and otherwise). (...)

Maybe religious agenda. But apart from it - that's exactly what America is NOT. Capitalism died with the XIX century and the introduction of communist labour rights, human rights, muslim(oops!) terrorist rights, and no-rights-for-WASPs rights. You got your medicare and medi-tihs and what not, political correctness and voting righrs for scumbags who contribute nothing to the society. And that's exactly the path the mentioned Western countries follow.

I said "OR the very things that built America", and not "AND other things etc.". GWB did not build it, but Obama will ruin it, that's for sure. Bloody communist with his complexes. On the other hand... If I had come to America hidden in a basket and pretend to be American, maybe I would have turned into such a disaster too.

Thug life, homie BHO.

[freetibet]

Uh... he's from Poland.

Heh, I wonder how You'd treat Poles if they were black, muslim and possibly handicaped. And gay;)

How politically correct would that be, hm? Sh-sh-shame on You.

[kaiser soze]

oh no racists here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAEIcsOL2n4&eurl

[RobMoney$]

There are two kinds of people in this world.

Those who want to know "what's in it for me"
And those who want to know "what do I have to do to get what I need and want in life"

The Bishop clearly was a "what's in it for me" guy.


Speaking Spanish was an ignorant thing to do.
1. He brought the meeting to a complete halt for anyone who doesn't speak spanish and therefore can't understand what's being asked.
Even though the man said he knew how to ask the question in English, he CHOSE to ask it in spanish. How utterly self-serving.

2. His question was completely selfish. Something like "I'm a pastor and therefore don't have an employer to provide health insurance, what about me?"


Way to tie up approx. 500 people's time with a question that only benefitted you, in a language that benefitted you and very few others in attendance.


But you're right, clearly racism was on display.
Because I'm sure none of the other 500 people there have any spanish-speaking family or friends.

[kaiser soze]

wait, so you're saying none of those people in that room are "what's in it for me people"?

what planet have you been on, these people have been bitching about their money, their rights, their way of living, their whatever benefits only them this whole time!

I guess you've been living in a hole, but people in this country speak other languages than english and have every right to speak what language they damn well please. Telling him otherwise is facism and that is what you support?

He didn't bring the meeting to a halt - he proceeded with his question in his language of preference without breaking to confront the bigots in the room. His question was a legitimate one to him (just like all questions and statements that have been made by individuals at these meetings). His question did not stop the meeting in the slightest bit, but sad to say the heckling would have if he let it interrupt his question.

[kaiser soze]

as a person who prides himself as someone who goes against the grain you surely have no tolerance for others who do the same

such a shame and a sham :(

[RobMoney$]

wait, so you're saying none of those people in that room are "what's in it for me people"?

what planet have you been on, these people have been bitching about their money, their rights, their way of living, their whatever benefits only them this whole time!

So you know everyone who was there?
Everything you just wrote above is simply conjecture.
Actually, it really doesn't matter what kind of people they are.
They are taking the time out of their day, away from their work, family, ect. to be there.
They obviously have concerns that they'd like answers to.
Chosing to unnecessarily speak in ANY alternative language when you can speak in one that everyone will understand is ignorant and selfish.

Fuck that dude.
I would have boo'd too.

I guess you've been living in a hole, but people in this country speak other languages than english and have every right to speak what language they damn well please. Telling him otherwise is facism and that is what you support?

He is absolutely free to speak any language he chooses.
And the other people should be free to be put off by the ignorance the good bishop is displaying.

He didn't bring the meeting to a halt - he proceeded with his question in his language of preference without breaking to confront the bigots in the room. His question was a legitimate one to him (just like all questions and statements that have been made by individuals at these meetings). His question did not stop the meeting in the slightest bit, but sad to say the heckling would have if he let it interrupt his question.

WHO?

[kaiser soze]

Chosing to unnecessarily speak in ANY alternative language when you can speak in one that everyone will understand is ignorant and selfish.

No it is not, the question was not for the crowd and he asked it in a very respectable and timely manner.
Rep. Himes told the crowd the question after. Mere seconds wasted.

WHO?

I guess you ran out of braincells to figure that out

The Bishop

[RobMoney$]

No it is not, the question was not for the crowd

Well it should have been.
Asking a question that only serves yourself in a forum like that is ridiculous and those people had a justifiable reason to be pissed off by having their time wasted. It had nothing to do with the guys race.

And Is that politician going to afford that same opportunity to all 500 people in attendance? I doubt it.

[kaiser soze]

Well it should have been.
Asking a question that only serves yourself in a forum like that is ridiculous and those people had a justifiable reason to be pissed off by having their time wasted. It had nothing to do with the guys race.

And Is that politician going to afford that same opportunity to all 500 people in attendance? I doubt it.

So you are willing to admit that you believe that every question/statement at these town hall meetings prior to this one have been for and representative of the masses

:rolleyes:

Like I said mere seconds wasted. People are concerned how this bill will affect Them and their families

You honestly believe they are concerned about how it affects others?

right

[Whatitis]

The world needs to stop looking to America for hope because hope checked out long ago.

really....REALLY...shit....I was duped!

[RobMoney$]

So you are willing to admit that you believe that every question/statement at these town hall meetings prior to this one have been for and representative of the masses

:rolleyes:

Like I said mere seconds wasted. People are concerned how this bill will affect Them and their families

You honestly believe they are concerned about how it affects others?

right


How it affects you and your family is a question for the masses. The masses have families.
A question about how the good Bishop and his family are going to get some coverage because he doesn't have an employer,...how many other people in attendance do you think that pertains to or are in a similar situation?

Is the good Bishop's schedule so packed that he can't make a visit to his politicians office on his own time, to ask his question where he would be free to speak in whatever language he wanted without offending anyone.

As for the "mere seconds wasted" excuse. The video is over 3 minutes long.
Again I ask, are all 500 people going to be afforded the same "mere seconds/3 mins."?
Could be a long night, would you be willing to wait to be the last person to be heard?

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Now I am a little confused. How exactly do the masses answer a question? Democracy I suppose. However the vast majority of people do not vote so even though there may be lots of questions for the masses it seems quite rare to get a response from them. I am not being difficult here I would just like to know how we get good responses to democratic questions if people are slacking or not paying attention to the important issues. Perhaps I am being pessimistic but it seems to me that there are powerful organisations in society that do not want the masses to respond to the questions and would prefer us to be silent, miss or ignore the substantive issues.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

AMERICA. (You should kneel while saying this word, btw.)



What a load of bullocks!

[travesty]

If he really was a "good bishop" then he wouldn't be worried about health insurance. If he really believed in God's will then praying should be all the medication he needs OR God would send him enough people willing to "buy" the bullshit he's selling that he could afford some high quality health care. My guess is that "God" doesn't give a fuck about this guy, and neither do I. :p