A social conscience is not the same thing as socialism

[Michelle*s_Farm]

In the health care debate there is much fear mongering in the US that health care is "socialism" or "communism". These words scare a lot of Americans and distract from the important issue that tax payers deserve to have quality health care services provided and regulated by the government. I would presume that most people want their government to have a social conscience rather than a corporate conscience (i.e., psychopathic). A government motivated by a social conscience would provide health care to all of its citizens. If everyone agrees with this then there should be no debate. If taxes pay for 6-8 lane super-highways so you can get to work and purchase more crap you do not need or a military that can destroy the entire planet in less than 24 hours surely there is money to ensure that all people are kept healthy. Damn this debate annoys me as it seems illogical and over the top selfish to argue against government funded health provisioning.

[yeahwho]

In the health care debate there is much fear mongering in the US that health care is "socialism" or "communism". These words scare a lot of Americans and distract from the important issue that tax payers deserve to have quality health care services provided and regulated by the government. I would presume that most people want their government to have a social conscience rather than a corporate conscience (i.e., psychopathic). A government motivated by a social conscience would provide health care to all of its citizens. If everyone agrees with this then there should be no debate. If taxes pay for 6-8 lane super-highways so you can get to work and purchase more crap you do not need or a military that can destroy the entire planet in less than 24 hours surely there is money to ensure that all people are kept healthy. Damn this debate annoys me as it seems illogical and over the top selfish to argue against government funded health provisioning.

Very well said, I am amazed and delighted that health care has become a topic on this board. If you would of asked me a few months ago I would of said, "No Way" the BBMB just doesn't have the focus or demographic to talk about something like health insurance. Now the whole nation is abuzz. It's good in a inventory sense.

I guess in a way, I would like to thank the morons who painted Hitler mustaches and Joker make-up on Obama because you have motivated those who usually could care less about such a boring industry and incredibly dry topic.

[Documad]

I learned the definitions of all those words in social studies class when I was in 8th grade or so. Apparently, they're not teaching social studies anymore because many grown US adults don't have a fucking clue what socialism or communism is. :rolleyes:

[Bob]

I learned the definitions of all those words in social studies class when I was in 8th grade or so. Apparently, they're not teaching social studies anymore because many grown US adults don't have a fucking clue what socialism or communism is. :rolleyes:

of course they don't teach it! social studies = socialism

[RobMoney$]

If you would of asked me a few months ago I would of said, "No Way" the BBMB just doesn't have the focus or demographic to talk about something like health insurance.


Funny, I always thought there was no topic above the collective genius of this MB.

[yeahwho]

Funny, I always thought there was no topic above the collective genius of this MB.

bitter some?

[RobMoney$]

Actually Yes.

I dislike people who are elitists.
Most people hold disdain for people like that.
This forum is busting at the seems with them.
Unfortunetly, they are the majority here and tend to celebrate one another's elitism, which only reinforces that their douchebaggery is acceptable.

[yeahwho]

Actually Yes.

I dislike people who are elitists.
Most people hold disdain for people like that.
This forum is busting at the seems with them.
Unfortunetly, they are the majority here and tend to celebrate one another's elitism, which only reinforces that their douchebaggery is acceptable.

From the immortal words of Dick Cheney (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SypeZjeOrY4), So.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

"douchebaggery" is a great word. i wish the oxford english dictionary would get off their elitist asses and include it :)

[D_Raay]

You know I haven't posted here in months; I have read, but I haven't posted.

I have a reason. We are having the same debate with the same people who obviously have no clue on what makes a society such as ours beneficial and viable for us all. I don't think it's presumptuous or elitist to want everyone in this country to have the same opportunity, referring to our health or otherwise, as ANYONE else be they rich or favored or conversely born to poverty or products of their environment.

It's improbable such a state can be made in this country where you have wealthy people breaking the backs of their breadwinners and whistling while they do so. And what do we do? What do we of intelligence and means do? We blather on about nothing. We talk to the morons and entertain their ill conceived notions of nazis running our government, of their fear of government run programs (which they benefit from every day), of their concerns over massive spending which in reality is a stew made by our own greed and the endless support of windbags. We were sold out 30 years ago and we won't even face it.

Why the conversation? Will something like what Michelle wrote here ever be taken seriously as long we entertain arguments for the sake of arguments?

I guess what I'm saying is where is the real debate? It shouldn't be about whether we WILL do something that benefits all of us who have the right to such a thing as Americans, it should be about how are we going to do more after that. This is not about Obama or any other politician or pundit, it's about all of us and how we are expected to live our lives and how we should treat our fellow human beings as we would expect to be treated.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

This is not about Obama or any other politician or pundit, it's about all of us and how we are expected to live our lives and how we should treat our fellow human beings as we would expect to be treated.

Thank you for that post -- could not agree more.

[yeahwho]

You know I haven't posted here in months; I have read, but I haven't posted.

You should post more often. Nothing here on this board is ever taken too seriously, I wouldn't let any words or misinterpretations of your own thoughts stop you from writing down what is on your mind. You, unlike me, may actually sharpen and improve your skills at writing. My brain hits a wall and stops.

We were sold out 30 years ago and we won't even face it.

Sounds as if you've been reading Paul Krugman of late...

All the President’s Zombies (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/opinion/24krugman.html)

There’s a lot to be said about the financial disaster of the last two years, but the short version is simple: politicians in the thrall of Reaganite ideology dismantled the New Deal regulations that had prevented banking crises for half a century, believing that financial markets could take care of themselves. The effect was to make the financial system vulnerable to a 1930s-style crisis — and the crisis came.

“We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals,” said Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1937. “We know now that it is bad economics.” And last year we learned that lesson all over again.

Or did we? The astonishing thing about the current political scene is the extent to which nothing has changed.

.......well whatever and WTF, I'm probably a fucking loser having someone like RobMoney call me an elitist (hilarious for me, an ex chronic alcoholic/drug addict who can barely fucking comprehend breakfast) so WTF do I know? Ahhhh, I actually enjoy the to and fro. May as well have a bit of fun.

[D_Raay]

I was speaking more broadly than any one person or board yeahwho although I directed it here.

I do not read Paul Krugman although I have heard of him. Sounds like he may be one out there not afraid to think outside the MSM talking points of the day, and try to show people that what has happened did not come swiftly, rather has been perpetuated over a long period of time. They count on this, not just in politics but also in entertainment and advertisement, that we will have short memories and not be able to link together events that took years to culminate. We have been slowly turned from moderate consumers who spent sparingly and saved for our future to overworked constant spenders who find it hard to save anything at all. We are being nickel and dimed to death. They just keep adding little expenses here and there knowing it will be accepted because it didn't happen all at once and that usually it is absolutely necessary to have such expenses. Like gas and water just to name a few. Greatest natural resource on the planet (water) and they figured out to get us to have to buy that too. What's next will be buying our air? Maybe little fitted helmets with little meters on them? And all because over a period of time we allowed just a little more pollution each year because the poor destitute corporations, that can't afford the fancy yacht only the somewhat fancy one, have convinced us through the people we elected to look out for us that it is a good thing to look the other way when it comes to CEO's greed because of "gays" or "abortions" or "illegal immigrants" (employed by same corporations btw so you don't have to sully yourself and actually have a job to pay for your water).

Illusion of choice. We have to have a public option, we have to have a health care system that can meet the needs of it's citizens it's as simple as that.

[yeahwho]

Illusion of choice. We have to have a public option, we have to have a health care system that can meet the needs of it's citizens it's as simple as that.

Just as FDR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)) signed Social Security into law and LBJ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)) signed Medicare into law , Barack Obama is going to sign Universal Health Care into law.

We're paying corporations out of our own taxes right now, through TARP. In return they're courting politicians with their new found solvency (http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009/02/tarp-recipients-paid-out-114-m.html). This insanity of a nation oblivious to corporate greed vs. goodwill toward fellow mankind is amazing.

Sick.