No one should die because they cannot afford health care, and no one should go broke [Archive]

yeahwho

09-04-2009, 03:52 AM

I find it so funny when people say things like this. I love having Facebook; it was cut off here in the PRC for a while (well technically it still is) and I really missed it. With all my nearest and dearest being not at all near, it is so great to be able to stay in such close contact so easily with everybody I care about. People may or may not read my 'drivel' or look at my 'hell'-ish photos as they choose. From what I gather though, those who know me are actually rather happy to read about what we're up to over here and see our photos of our new, sometimes strange, sometimes wonderful life.

yeah, facebook is nice. I think it actually has made some of my friendships better, and it's nice to see pictures of people's vacations! and I get to see what my friends who don't live here anymore are up to.

I luckily don't really have any friends who incessantly update their status though. Well, I have a couple, but I blocked their feeds. :cool:

OK. I'm happy for you. I actually go on vacations with my friends and the few who do live out of state that I do not go on vacation with I can live without a pic of their vacation. I travel quite a bit and at least several hundred of my post count are from me being on the road. Because of that lifestyle I'll try the Diggs, Skypes AIM's Stumbles. For some reason and it's just me... the facebook app started to bug the shit out of me.

I embrace new technology and I'll try anything that comes across the net, I tried facebook, I didn't like it. There are many much more exciting things happening on the net. I actually think Twitter is vastly superior. Facebook is just another business proposition, no reason to get all fucked up over it. I feel like I just crashed a Scientology meeting or something.

yeahwho

09-04-2009, 04:06 AM

No one should die because they cannot afford health care, and no one should go broke because they get sick. If you agree, please post this as your status for the rest of the day.

My response:

If you posted this as your facebook status, you can feel free to go ahead and delete yourself from my friend list as you're an idiot.

Stupid liberals.

That is a pretty cheesy quote, I think if a person wanted more impact they should quote your signature RobMoney$ as their facebook status, it's obviously genius.

RobMoney$

09-04-2009, 05:41 AM

I love blocking news feeds.

Im suprised anyone here actually feeds the RobMoney troll. He just needs something to argue about. If this board was primarily conservative, he would be saying the opposite.

And you just need someone to shit on.
You're no different than me.

Arguing with you d'bags is my style.
Quit hating.

Schmeltz

09-04-2009, 09:24 AM

Arguing with you d'bags is my style.

Nah, your style is actually taking somebody else's arguments, and posting them here, and pretending you wrote them, and then pretending that you're arguing with other people. Not much of a style at all really. More of a joke than anything.

Dorothy Wood

09-04-2009, 10:49 AM

ms.peachy

09-04-2009, 11:46 AM

OK. I'm happy for you. I actually go on vacations with my friends and the few who do live out of state that I do not go on vacation with I can live without a pic of their vacation. I travel quite a bit and at least several hundred of my post count are from me being on the road. Because of that lifestyle I'll try the Diggs, Skypes AIM's Stumbles. For some reason and it's just me... the facebook app started to bug the shit out of me.

I embrace new technology and I'll try anything that comes across the net, I tried facebook, I didn't like it. There are many much more exciting things happening on the net. I actually think Twitter is vastly superior. Facebook is just another business proposition, no reason to get all fucked up over it. I feel like I just crashed a Scientology meeting or something.

Hey, what works for you works for you and that's fine. But it's bothering me that I'm detecting a real tone of superiority in the way you are choosing to express your thoughts on this matter. Perhaps I am mistaken, but you're coming across to me right now as being insulting.

You know, I used to take vacations with my friends too. When I didn't have a kid, when I didn't live on the opposite side of the globe from almost everyone I know, etc. Now though that I can't do such things, at least not without a whole lot of effort and advance planning, I like to look at the pics of my friends' holidays, my sister's twin baby girls, all that stuff. I like hearing a bit about the mundane, ordinary things of the lives of people I care about. What I don't care about is whether strangers think there are "more exciting things happening out on the net". Maybe I have a different definition of exciting, eh?

Randetica

09-04-2009, 02:29 PM

it's the most beautiful fb status message ive ever heard *teardrops*

yeahwho

09-04-2009, 02:53 PM

ha! you like twitter and you're calling us scientologists! ha! call me crazy, but I don't much care for looking at a wall of text and tinyurls and symbols co-opted to mean something else that I still haven't figured out. it makes my brain hurt.

but you know, to each their own. I don't think peachy and I were "fucked up over it".

I don't think you guys are fucked up over twitter/facebook but I was going to defend what little twit I have participated in and I caught myself being pot, kettle, black. I really have no defense because I really do not care if you use facebook, it's fine, it doesn't bug me at all. I could care less if you facebook.

This may sound selfish, but really it isn't, I don't like facebook. It's embarrassing to me, I feel embarrassed for some (not all) of the desperation and neediness I witnessed on facebook. Facebook gave me a lower self esteem and a false sense of friendship that rang hollow. I felt embarrassed for others who I also witnessed not really being themselves.

I'm an ass and a critical bitch who wasted most of his premium social years floating in the bottom of a bottle in a drug induced mumbling haze. Facebook etiquette just mystifies me, most of life just mystifies me. In a good way.

Hey, what works for you works for you and that's fine. But it's bothering me that I'm detecting a real tone of superiority in the way you are choosing to express your thoughts on this matter. Perhaps I am mistaken, but you're coming across to me right now as being insulting.

You know, I used to take vacations with my friends too. When I didn't have a kid, when I didn't live on the opposite side of the globe from almost everyone I know, etc. Now though that I can't do such things, at least not without a whole lot of effort and advance planning, I like to look at the pics of my friends' holidays, my sister's twin baby girls, all that stuff. I like hearing a bit about the mundane, ordinary things of the lives of people I care about. What I don't care about is whether strangers think there are "more exciting things happening out on the net". Maybe I have a different definition of exciting, eh?

I'm not too sure how to respond. I guess just have you re-read the above, it uses my "I am a recovering alcoholic" default because honestly I just don't care about facebook. It is what you want it to be. It is what I want it to be.

And since I have done such a great job hijacking this Obama trashing thread, I would like to add something I find amazing about facebook.

Remember when tracking cookies and third party cookies used to get internet users all up in arms over privacy?

DroppinScience

09-04-2009, 02:54 PM

Yes, he's freely admitted as much before. But feeding him isn't the same thing as taking him seriously, and I find his clumsy attempts to rile people up are often good for a laugh. Like this thread here. Where would he be if both of his Facebook friends posted that as their status? Why, he wouldn't have any at all!

Rob has two friends? That's two more than I would have guessed.

Schmeltz

09-04-2009, 05:45 PM

Well, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. It may seem excessive but I was feeling generous at the time.

roosta

09-04-2009, 06:56 PM

Al Franken on Healthcare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCNs7Zpqo98&feature=player_embedded)

quite interesting

Whatitis

09-04-2009, 08:24 PM

A friends fb status post I came across. I LOL'd.

No one should die because of zombies if they cannot afford a shotgun, or even just a machete. And, no one should be turned into a vampire if they get bit by one, or a werewolf for that matter. If you agree, post this as your status for the rest of the day.

RobMoney$

09-05-2009, 12:08 AM

Rob has two friends? That's two more than I would have guessed.

Well, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. It may seem excessive but I was feeling generous at the time.

LOOK AT ME BE CONDESCENDING TO ROBMONEY.
FEAR ME.

dorks.

kaiser soze

09-05-2009, 12:15 AM

:( facebook hurts feelings :(

The Notorious LOL

09-05-2009, 06:56 AM

And you just need someone to shit on.
You're no different than me.

Arguing with you d'bags is my style.
Quit hating.

Pointing out what you do doesnt really constitute "shitting on you" or "hating".

Schmeltz

09-05-2009, 08:18 AM

LOOK AT ME BE CONDESCENDING TO ROBMONEY.

Actually that should read "LOOK AT ME TREAT ROBMONEY WITH NO MORE RESPECT THAN HE DESERVES." Because you've explicitly made clear that you don't deserve any.

Seriously. I thought you didn't care if people were condescending to you, and you just came here to ruffle liberal feathers because that's your mad cool wicked awesome style that nobody could ever emulate. And here you are whining like a little bitch. I guess your true colours come out in the wash once somebody calls you on your plagiarism, huh? Keep the laughs coming, cool guy.

RobMoney$

09-05-2009, 12:11 PM

No, that last post was me mocking you & Lambert.
I actually find it hilarious my plaigirism set you off to the point you're still crying about it weeks after the fact.
You sound like a jealous bitch.

Maybe you should seek counciling for all the pent up anger you've got.

DroppinScience

09-05-2009, 03:15 PM

Lambert, keep my fuckin name out of your mouth and you'll have nothing to worry about.

Maybe you should seek counciling for all the pent up anger you've got.

lol?

Schmeltz

09-07-2009, 08:18 AM

I actually find it hilarious my plaigirism set you off to the point you're still crying about it weeks after the fact.

Set off? No. Crying? No. Endlessly amused? Yes! See, it's not that I'm angry, Rob. It's just that pretending to have written something somebody else wrote is so pathetically feeble that it's really funny to bring it up whenever you start touting your "style". You're just so full of shit that showing you up never gets old.

RobMoney$

09-07-2009, 03:31 PM

Obviously, I'm shattered by it.

Way to move on with your life. (y)

RobMoney$

09-07-2009, 05:25 PM

Some of my friends had a new FB Liberal message du jour:

thinks that ANY President of the United States has the right to address the school children of this country without having his attempt to motivate the future generation hijacked as a political tool by his opposition. If you agree with this copy and paste it as your status for the day.

My response:

I don't need Obama to tell my kids to stay in school and to work hard.
That's my job and I'm insulted that Obama thinks parents aren't capable of sending this message on our own.
Once again, stay out of my private affairs Mr. Obama.
Tell him to stop spending all our nations wealth on entitlemnet programs and start creating some jobs.

YoungRemy

09-07-2009, 05:35 PM

who said Obama thinks parents are incapable?

he's doing his job as the president, just like George H.W. Bush and Nancy Reagan did when they pushed the "Just Say No" campaign upon the nation's schoolchildren.

obviously the parents failed to get that message as well. did they need to be told to keep their kids of drugs and out of gangs?

yeahwho

09-07-2009, 05:38 PM

My response:

I don't need Obama to tell my kids to stay in school and to work hard.
That's my job and I'm insulted that Obama thinks parents aren't capable of sending this message on our own.
Once again, stay out of my private affairs Mr. Obama.
Tell him to stop spending all our nations wealth on entitlemnet programs and start creating some jobs.

This surprising as all get out! Obama did something you disagree with? Wild.

Bob

09-07-2009, 06:04 PM

Some of my friends had a new FB Liberal message du jour:

My response:

I don't need Obama to tell my kids to stay in school and to work hard.
That's my job and I'm insulted that Obama thinks parents aren't capable of sending this message on our own.
Once again, stay out of my private affairs Mr. Obama.
Tell him to stop spending all our nations wealth on entitlemnet programs and start creating some jobs.

haha wow, obama can't even tell kids to stay in school and work hard without pissing you off. you are certainly dedicated.

honestly i'm stunned that you found a way to do it. it seemed like such an inoffensive thing to do. i bet even glenn beck's writers had to pull an all-nighter to figure a way to spin that. you should apply for a job there!

Knuckles

09-07-2009, 08:17 PM

you should apply for a job there!

YES!

I would watch the RobMoney$ show.

I wonder what kind of sponsors would he get?

DroppinScience

09-07-2009, 08:27 PM

haha wow, obama can't even tell kids to stay in school and work hard without pissing you off. you are certainly dedicated.

honestly i'm stunned that you found a way to do it. it seemed like such an inoffensive thing to do. i bet even glenn beck's writers had to pull an all-nighter to figure a way to spin that. you should apply for a job there!

I think if Obama sent a message to the kids of America to flunk out of college, get some "life experience" and not be a campus fuckface, RobMoney would be hailing Obama as the greatest president in history.

RobMoney$

09-07-2009, 09:22 PM

I think if Obama sent a message to the kids of America to flunk out of college, get some "life experience" and not be a campus fuckface, RobMoney would be hailing Obama as the greatest president in history.

1. Never "flunked" out of anywhere.
2. Once again, you're making a comment where you're looking down your over-educated nose at people with "life experience". You're a snob.
3. All I want Obama to do is to stop spending money he doesn't have and start creating some jobs for people.
Stop worrying about your fucking ego stroke and making yourself look like a hero to kids by telling them to stay in school or some other pedestrian shit.
We don't need Obama to be our kids' hero.
Kids need their moms and dads to have a job that pays them a decent wage and benefits so that they can be the hero to their kids.

It's really no different than Jesse Jackson saying Obama was talking down to black people for telling them to be a father to their kids.

kaiser soze

09-07-2009, 09:35 PM

I can't wait for conservative endorsed petitions against:

1) The D.A.R.E program
2) The Boy and Girl Scout Organizations
3) Visits by Police Officers and Firemen and especially that asshole McGruff the Crime Dog
4) Kid's Favorite Performers singing songs on how to be good and productive
5) And most importantly Teachers

RobMoney$

09-07-2009, 09:58 PM

Let's play a game. Tell me which one of these doesn't belong.

1.Policeman
2.Fireman
3.McGruff the crimedog
4.Teachers
5.Members of D.A.R.E.
6.President of the United States of America

You are probably going to say Police, because you think they're all criminals anyway, right?

But no, the one that doesn't belong is President of the United States of America, know why?

Because nowhere in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independance, the Bill of Rights, or on any document anywhere does is state that it's the President's duty as Commander in Chief to encourage children to stay in school.

The other people, it's absolutely their job to help give guidence to the children of this country.

kaiser soze

09-07-2009, 10:13 PM

RobMoney$

09-07-2009, 10:38 PM

But oddly enough this is the first time many of us have seen people react so negatively to a President speaking to students. Especially a president who has made history by breaking the presidential rift in race. Why the sudden change? Sounds, looks, and smells like veiled bigotry to me. Straight up.

Did any other President do it while so many other things required his attention, or during his first year in office?
If you're going to insist on comparing him to Bush, I'm going to have to insist the comparison is fair.

Also, the Presidential rift in race?
What's that about?
Is it bigotry, or could it be he's the first minority President because he just happens to be the first viable candidate of a minority race?
Sorry, but Jesse and SHarpton were not a viable candidates.
If you're constantly looking for bigotry, you'll see it everywhere, even where none exists.
Now stop turning this into a racial issue.
We'll never move past race being an issue if we keep making it an issue.

But, the parent's didn't give permission to these strangers to tell their kids what to do

Of course they did.
We're paying for them to guide our children with our tax dollars.
Of course they have permission to do the job we're paying them to do.
Teachers, Police, Fire, McGruff, D.A.R.E.,...all Government funded jobs and entities.

DroppinScience

09-07-2009, 10:43 PM

God forbid that kids have positive role models. I can't believe Obama just flipped the bird at parents for saying their kids should stay in school.

"Ma, I was about to drop out of school, but then the President told me that I should stay in school. You guys are bad parents!"

Oh, the outrage. :rolleyes:

I know you're hating Obama just for the sake of hating Obama, but this is pretty sad even for you.

RobMoney$

09-07-2009, 10:50 PM

I know you're hating Obama just for the sake of hating Obama, but this is pretty sad even for you.

Of course it is.
I'm just the saddest, aren't I?

Thank You for your addition to the dialogue.

kaiser soze

09-07-2009, 10:56 PM

Where did I compare him to bush? But yes if this is a time management concern of yours - still very little complaints from the masses when bush was vacationing half of his much needed time in office away.

Anyways, I can see it how I see it - the people who are fighting Obama tooth and nail are very much aligned with those who openly express their bigotry ( on the television, radio, the protests) so I would not be surprised that there is a connection.

I think you're trying to create a complaint that is nonexistent, come on "Too Busy" to address school children, it's not like he is writing a New Constitution or something.

I am well aware that our tax dollars (gasp socialism!) are paying these people to protect our societies (minus the teachers) but you believe they should be telling our children what to do and how to behave behind our backs!?! Shouldn't those individuals be doing their jobs rather than talking to our kids?! What if a house is on fire or a someone is killed in a robbery, talk about horrible time management.

Isn't the Presidency a government funded entity?

Like I said - Every president that I have ever known has addressed students in some form or another

Hell, bush completed a lesson plan with the students he was visiting while our country was being attacked.

YoungRemy

09-08-2009, 11:12 AM

no facebook updates for us today? i thought people came here to talk about politics?

cookiepuss

09-11-2009, 07:12 PM

I actually saw this posted on a message board today and almost vomited in my mouth:

"No one has a "right" to health care, just like no one has a "right" to
get a driver's license.

really? comparing health to driving a car?
it kinda makes me want to break both their legs, beat them to a bloody pulp and then refuse to take them to a hospital. then maybe we can have an informed discussion on "rights" to health care.:rolleyes:

but uh yeah...anyway...I didn't post that FB mumbo jumbo either...and I support reform.

QueenAdrock

09-12-2009, 01:12 AM

Yeah, just like no one has a "right" to police protection services or firefighters or public libraries. Just because it's not an official "right" that's on the books doesn't mean it's not something that the public SHOULD have. Police are there to help people for free, firefighters are there to save people for free, and hospitals should be there to do both -- for free.

As for libraries, they already do help and save people through mind-expanding information, but I may be just a bit biased. ;)

QueenAdrock

09-12-2009, 01:22 AM

Quite interesting -- just looked up the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and Article 25:

Article 25.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

YoungRemy

09-13-2009, 07:07 PM

But no, the one that doesn't belong is President of the United States of America, know why?

Because nowhere in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independance, the Bill of Rights, or on any document anywhere does is state that it's the President's duty as Commander in Chief to encourage children to stay in school.

The other people, it's absolutely their job to help give guidence to the children of this country.

The "Commander In Chief" is the role of the US President serves as the head of the nation's military, exclusively.

Under the Executive Branch, the President nominates and approves Cabinet members, these nominations are approved by Congress.

Under the Department of Education, according to the White House,
The mission of the Department of Education is to promote student achievement and preparation for competition in a global economy by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access to educational opportunity.

The Department administers federal financial aid for education, collects data on America's schools to guide improvements in education quality, and works to complement the efforts of state and local governments, parents, and students.

I would say the President's role in education is a very important one, with education being at the forefront of presidential campaigns and elections.

yeahwho

09-17-2009, 12:08 AM

This re-vamped health bill presented by Sen. Max Baucus did something I figured was near impossible, it pissed off democrats and republicans but managed to make blue dogs happy.

Watching this shill from the hill is crazier than eating a 4 way hit of LSD.

Sen. Max Baucus unveils his healthcare overhaul plan (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/healthcare/la-na-health-baucus17-2009sep17,0,7676766,full.story)

Are these guys using the same drug dealer as the teabaggers? Fuck those hosers, pass a health care package with a STRONG public option or Single Payer now... dumbasses... while you can!

kaiser soze

09-23-2009, 09:06 AM

The Real victims of Health Care Reform

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QVk4f_Vxik&feature=player_embedded#t=62

YoungRemy

10-13-2009, 01:14 PM

I'm not shouting socialism but I sure don't like being forced to purchase health care under the Baucus Plan. They would treat it similar to auto-insurance and fine you if you aren't covered. This is in the name of bringing down the cost of health insurance for everybody...

For the record, I'm covered on a pretty good plan with my employer, but I have gone years without coverage in between school and employment, and with a father who has been in the insurance game for more than 35 years, I have a love/hate relationship with the insurance industry.

I understand how important it is to be covered, but the costs are astronomical and something's got to be done.

The Baucus plan does not impress me but I don't see the anything coming from the other side of Congress either...

travesty

10-13-2009, 05:17 PM

Are these guys using the same drug dealer as the teabaggers? Fuck those hosers, pass a health care package with a STRONG public option or Single Payer now... dumbasses... while you can!

Sadly...they can't, or more beleivably they just won't (for $ome rea$on(n))...end of story.

travesty

10-13-2009, 05:36 PM

The Real victims of Health Care Reform

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QVk4f_Vxik&feature=player_embedded#t=62

Iam the real victim of health reform. My rates are going to increase and so are my taxes. Tell me exactly why the fuck should I get onboard with that? Seriously! Just so I can walk around with some smug sense of moral superiority? Sorry I don't carry that much guilt for other people's problems. And when I do get an inkling of it I volunteer and donate to the charities of my choosing. You want free healthcare? Join the fucking Army and work for it.

saz

10-13-2009, 06:18 PM

or get elected to congress or the senate and you'll get free health insurance.

you should move to the great white north dude.

travesty

10-13-2009, 06:59 PM

or get elected to congress or the senate and you'll get free health insurance.
Great gig if you can get it.

you should move to the great white north dude.

Done my time in the snow, I'm over it. I keep moving farther south everytime now. Although I hope I never see the day that I move to Florida... that place sucks.

yeahwho

10-16-2009, 02:51 PM

My health insurance package arrived today for the year 2010, all of the options have lowered the percentage the insurance company will pay and raised the deductible on my behalf by 5-10%. Out of 8 seperate options the average cost of my health insurance (plus the millions of others in these plans) has risen over 7% in one year.

Last year it went up 5%

The year before it went up 8%

My health insurance cost has doubled since 2001.

Pick a Chart (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=health%20insurance%20cost%20charts%20&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi)

kaiser soze

10-17-2009, 10:06 AM

Were they kind enough to send you their quarterly profit reports as well?

yeahwho

10-17-2009, 04:51 PM

Were they kind enough to send you their quarterly profit reports as well?

lol, yeah they failed to send along the profit statements with the benefits packages. They also didn't mention that today they were going spend over $1.3 million dollars just as they did the previous day and every day this year influencing 100 lawmakers to keep status quo.

Most every topic being presented here in this thread was not mentioned in the insurance pamphlets. It's like doing business with criminals. They are in cahoots with the drug companies, hospitals and politicians who have free medical. I'm a number, a very small healthy number that pays for an outlay by law that I don't even begin to trust or believe in.

They are selling me back my dollar for .30 cents with no contribution to the betterment of my Country or fellow mankind.

Just like the republicans wanted it. Trickle down my pants leg economics.

travesty

10-18-2009, 01:49 PM

lol, yeah they failed to send along the profit statements with the benefits packages. They also didn't mention that today they were going spend over $1.3 million dollars just as they did the previous day and every day this year influencing 100 lawmakers to keep status quo.

Most every topic being presented here in this thread was not mentioned in the insurance pamphlets. It's like doing business with criminals. They are in cahoots with the drug companies, hospitals and politicians who have free medical. I'm a number, a very small healthy number that pays for an outlay by law that I don't even begin to trust or believe in.

They are selling me back my dollar for .30 cents with no contribution to the betterment of my Country or fellow mankind.

Just like the republicans wanted it. Trickle down my pants leg economics.

Maybe you should buy stock in your insurance company. If you think they are making the 30% profits you say they are, you could have your premiums completely covered with the profits you'd make on some modest stock purchases. Why don't you do this??? Because those figures are less than accurate.

Go to any financial site and pull down the most recent SEC filed financial statements showing net profits for the biggest Health Insurers;

Aetna -3.85%
United Healthcare - 4.14%
WellPoint- 4.00%
Humana- 2.79%
Cigna- 3.19%

Do those seem like absurd profit margins? Fuck dude I can make more than that on secured city bonds and never have to lift a finger to do it. My company would be out of business if any of those figures were my net profit margin. People freak out when they see that millions and billions of dollars in profits posted but look at the big picture here. Those returns are pretty slim in the business world. You also always have to keep in mind that lots of Americans are benefitting from insurance company profits. Lots of 401K's and mutual funds invest in Insurance company stocks. Lots of people's retirements are depending on them doing well and continuing to produce profits and dividends. Take a good look at your 401k and see where the money really is.

Again, I'm not here to defend the insurance companies but there are two sides to every coin.

yeahwho

10-18-2009, 03:10 PM

Maybe you should buy stock in your insurance company. If you think they are making the 30% profits you say they are, you could have your premiums completely covered with the profits you'd make on some modest stock purchases. Why don't you do this??? Because those figures are less than accurate.

Go to any financial site and pull down the most recent SEC filed financial statements showing net profits for the biggest Health Insurers;

Aetna -3.85%
United Healthcare - 4.14%
WellPoint- 4.00%
Humana- 2.79%
Cigna- 3.19%

Do those seem like absurd profit margins? Fuck dude I can make more than that on secured city bonds and never have to lift a finger to do it. My company would be out of business if any of those figures were my net profit margin. People freak out when they see that millions and billions of dollars in profits posted but look at the big picture here. Those returns are pretty slim in the business world. You also always have to keep in mind that lots of Americans are benefitting from insurance company profits. Lots of 401K's and mutual funds invest in Insurance company stocks. Lots of people's retirements are depending on them doing well and continuing to produce profits and dividends. Take a good look at your 401k and see where the money really is.

Again, I'm not here to defend the insurance companies but there are two sides to every coin.
This is part of my disconnect with your style of debate, did I mention profit? Did I once say the word profit? No.

Am I talking about the Health Industries profits? No. I'm talking about how much money I get on my return. I'm talking about my part in this debacle.

This is why I feel I'm debating with an insurance broker every time I respond to you. This is why I asked you previously if you work for an insurance company.

As far as insurance profits go, they must be pretty sweet or else why would they do every thing within the industries power to keep the status quo? I'm 100% sure that is because of those measly profit margins. That is why they have spent over $1.3 million dollars a day this year lobbying our lawmakers.

travesty

10-18-2009, 05:02 PM

This is part of my disconnect with your style of debate, did I mention profit? Did I once say the word profit? No.

Am I talking about the Health Industries profits? No. I'm talking about how much money I get on my return. I'm talking about my part in this debacle.

This is why I feel I'm debating with an insurance broker every time I respond to you. This is why I asked you previously if you work for an insurance company.

As far as insurance profits go, they must be pretty sweet or else why would they do every thing within the industries power to keep the status quo? I'm 100% sure that is because of those measly profit margins. That is why they have spent over $1.3 million dollars a day this year lobbying our lawmakers.

They are selling me back my dollar for .30 cents with no contribution to the betterment of my Country or fellow mankind.

I must have misinterpreted that. Sorry.

You're really hung up on that $1.3M/ day figure but really it could be far worse and just goes to show how cheaply our politicans can be bought. The US Healthcare Insurance Industry as a whole took in a little over $400B in revenue in 2007 (http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS187049+15-Jul-2008+PRN20080715). Now assume they spend about $475M lobbying this year ($1.3M times 365 days). That only represents one tenth of one percent of their annual revenue. If you assume an average of 3% net profit (based on the SEC's numbers we mentioned above) then the lobbying expense is still only 3.3% of their net profit!!! If you were a business owner facing the same situation does that seem like an insane or ludicrous percentage of your revenue to spend to try and ensure that the goverment doesn't ruin your business? Shit, that's peanuts!! Not only is everyone in Washington a whore... they are cheap whores. Never has such a large industry been directly threatened by the US government. The fact that they are spending money to alter the President's intent should not surprise you. The fact that they can accomplish their goals for so little should.

No I'm not affiliated with the insurance industry at all. I just live by numbers everyday as a business owner so I tend to rely on them when I research certain things.

yeahwho

10-18-2009, 05:56 PM

I must have misinterpreted that. Sorry.

You're really hung up on that $1.3M/ day figure but really it could be far worse and just goes to show how cheaply our politicans can be bought. The US Healthcare Insurance Industry as a whole took in a little over $400B in revenue in 2007 (http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS187049+15-Jul-2008+PRN20080715). Now assume they spend about $475M lobbying this year ($1.3M times 365 days). That only represents one tenth of one percent of their annual revenue. If you assume an average of 3% net profit (based on the SEC's numbers we mentioned above) then the lobbying expense is still only 3.3% of their net profit!!! If you were a business owner facing the same situation does that seem like an insane or ludicrous percentage of your revenue to spend to try and ensure that the goverment doesn't ruin your business? Shit, that's peanuts!! Not only is everyone in Washington a whore... they are cheap whores. Never has such a large industry been directly threatened by the US government. The fact that they are spending money to alter the President's intent should not surprise you. The fact that they can accomplish their goals for so little should.

No I'm not affiliated with the insurance industry at all. I just live by numbers everyday as a business owner so I tend to rely on them when I research certain things.

I'm not hung up as much on that number as you may think, it's one of many numbers that should be laid out on the table, others include operating costs such as administrative and legal.

It is a multi-layered industry that works not unlike any other industry with one exception, the health insurance industry provides a service in a competitive fashion that directly effects our "Health".

I do disagree with your statement of the government wants to take over the industry, "we the people" want what every civilized human on earth wants. Like other countries across earth who understand common decency is a part of citizenry, decency means we take care of each other and stay healthy.

I voted for this, so did millions of other people, so what the health insurance industry misses is that fact. If Obama sells us down the river we will soon find out, that is when I will hold him accountable. Until then I'm pissed about a return on my dollar of .30 cents with no fruitful contribution from billion dollar profits towards fellow citizens.

travesty

10-18-2009, 10:09 PM

I'm not hung up as much on that number as you may think, it's one of many numbers that should be laid out on the table, others include operating costs such as administrative and legal.

It is a multi-layered industry that works not unlike any other industry with one exception, the health insurance industry provides a service in a competitive fashion that directly effects our "Health".

I do disagree with your statement of the government wants to take over the industry, "we the people" want what every civilized human on earth wants. Like other countries across earth who understand common decency is a part of citizenry, decency means we take care of each other and stay healthy.

I voted for this, so did millions of other people, so what the health insurance industry misses is that fact. If Obama sells us down the river we will soon find out, that is when I will hold him accountable. Until then I'm pissed about a return on my dollar of .30 cents with no fruitful contribution from billion dollar profits towards fellow citizens.

What am I missing here. I am not understadning the "$.30 on my dollar" analogy. Can you explain that one a bit further for me?

I want things to be better too bro but I can't put all of the blame on the insurance industry. I know the White House is making them the scapegoat and certainly they have some issues. But I think people are putting too much emphasis on that one small, small part of the cost of our healthcare. The insurance companies play gatekeeper and control access and the problems there need to be rectified post haste, but the absurd costs we are paying is not derived from the insurance companies nor the profits they make. The crazy costs are being driven by the actual service providers as well as drug and durable good companies, not to mention the government's artificial price controls in the form of Medicare and Medicaid. Let's assume we completely eliminated the health care isnurance companies profits, say we made them all not-for-profits; According to the Reuters figures I linked to earlier if you took the aggregate healthcare insurance companies' net income $16B (profits) and sent that as a rebate check to every policy holder every month (2,338,082,230 Total Member Months) it would mean every policy holder would only pay $6.84 less in premiums per month or $82.02 Per year. That's it! The change I am looking for and the change I am expecting isn't a mere $82 per year. That ain't going to fix it Jack.

What I'm saying is that we need to really get to the root of this problem and the insurance companies are are just the small small tip of the iceberg. I just feel like the White House and all of Washington is deflecting instead of having the balls to stand up and do the hard work to corral the pharma co's, address medical tort reform, streamline record keeping and get Medicare and Medicaid in check. My point with the profits was that the Dems keep throwing these billion dollar profit numbers out there like we are being so taken advantage of and the insurance companies are raping us and it's simply not the case. I was just trying to point out that while their profits sound extreme, they are in fact quite small compared to most other industries.

The government does not want to take over the health insurance industry? What is a public option...what is a single payer plan if not at least a small takeover of the industry?

The bummer is we aren't even going to get that. We are going to get a watered down bill with mostly more insurance company regulations (that will increase our premiums), subsidies for those who can't afford it (which will increase our taxes) and we'll be revisiting this whole thing within another 10 years due to it's unsustainability amidst torrid inflation due to the bailouts and stimulus packages and due to the fact that it did nothing to address the real cost of healthcare in the first place. I'm holding you accountable to hold Obama accountable.

travesty

10-19-2009, 03:36 AM

Here's (http://biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_qpmd.html) a very interesting breakdown for the most profitable industries to be in right now according to Yahoo Finance. It sheds a lot of light on who really is making the money in the Healthcare world. Here are the healthcare related industries with their overall ranking and net profit %'s

#1- REIT (Real Estate Investment Trust)- Healthcare Facilities 28%
(Building hospitals is the most porfitable industry you can possibly be in right now? How's that for supply side driving demand?)
#7- Drug Manufacturers- Major 16.9%
#23- Healthcare Information Services 9%
#26- Home Healthcare 8.9%
#27- Drug Delivery 8.9%
#30- Medical Instruments and Supplies 8.8%
#34- Medical Laboratories and Research 8.1%
#48- Drug Manufacturers-Generic 6.5%
#60- Drug Manufacturers- Other 6.1%
#87- Health Care Plans 3.3%

Seems to me that the only reason the White House is villianizing the insurance companies is because they are the only part of the equation Obama and Pelosi want to see disappear. This is all just a ruse to get people to hate the insurance companies. Once you hate them and blame them for everything then it's that much easier to get rid of them. How come the Pharma companies aren't being held to the fire for absurd profits (http://biz.yahoo.com/p/510qpmd.html)? As an industry they see revenue over twice as high as the insurance industry (almost $1T) and profit margins averaging over 500% what the insurance industry makes. Why don't we hear about them Mr. Obama??? Why aren't their profits made to look obscene?

yeahwho

10-19-2009, 03:41 AM

What am I missing here. I am not understadning the "$.30 on my dollar" analogy. Can you explain that one a bit further for me?

I want things to be better too bro but I can't put all of the blame on the insurance industry. I know the White House is making them the scapegoat and certainly they have some issues. But I think people are putting too much emphasis on that one small, small part of the cost of our healthcare. The insurance companies play gatekeeper and control access and the problems there need to be rectified post haste, but the absurd costs we are paying is not derived from the insurance companies nor the profits they make. The crazy costs are being driven by the actual service providers as well as drug and durable good companies, not to mention the government's artificial price controls in the form of Medicare and Medicaid. Let's assume we completely eliminated the health care isnurance companies profits, say we made them all not-for-profits; According to the Reuters figures I linked to earlier if you took the aggregate healthcare insurance companies' net income $16B (profits) and sent that as a rebate check to every policy holder every month (2,338,082,230 Total Member Months) it would mean every policy holder would only pay $6.84 less in premiums per month or $82.02 Per year. That's it! The change I am looking for and the change I am expecting isn't a mere $82 per year. That ain't going to fix it Jack.

What I'm saying is that we need to really get to the root of this problem and the insurance companies are are just the small small tip of the iceberg. I just feel like the White House and all of Washington is deflecting instead of having the balls to stand up and do the hard work to corral the pharma co's, address medical tort reform, streamline record keeping and get Medicare and Medicaid in check. My point with the profits was that the Dems keep throwing these billion dollar profit numbers out there like we are being so taken advantage of and the insurance companies are raping us and it's simply not the case. I was just trying to point out that while their profits sound extreme, they are in fact quite small compared to most other industries.

The government does not want to take over the health insurance industry? What is a public option...what is a single payer plan if not at least a small takeover of the industry?

The bummer is we aren't even going to get that. We are going to get a watered down bill with mostly more insurance company regulations (that will increase our premiums), subsidies for those who can't afford it (which will increase our taxes) and we'll be revisiting this whole thing within another 10 years due to it's unsustainability amidst torrid inflation due to the bailouts and stimulus packages and due to the fact that it did nothing to address the real cost of healthcare in the first place. I'm holding you accountable to hold Obama accountable.

Or we can have the finest healthcare industry on the planet earth, a template for other nations to follow.

You sure are depressing. I'm reading all of the above and all I get is the negativity in your presentation. it's not truly anything pro-universal health.... not once do you address a solution. Wait, the solution you have is don't let the government anywhere near healthcare.

travesty

10-19-2009, 04:07 AM

Or we can have the finest healthcare industry on the planet earth, a template for other nations to follow.

You sure are depressing. I'm reading all of the above and all I get is the negativity in your presentation. it's not truly anything pro-universal health.... not once do you address a solution. Wait, the solution you have is don't let the government anywhere near healthcare.

I just don't agree that the only way to provide excellent healthcare to everyone is through the government. It could be a success but I don't see it on the federal level. If they wanted to have state run plans I'd consider it more likely to succeed. I think it is imperative to get to the real issue we are trying to solve- affordable healthcare for everyone. Right? So why can't we take a dose of increased insurance regulations (pre-X, no drop, no limit, portability) sprinkle in some more open markets for them to compete nationally, get a handle on Medicare and Medicaid payments and the prices they are paying for shit, mix in some sensible medical tort reform, set guidelines for more efficient record keeping and top it all off with a heaping helping of GET YOUR FAT FUCKING ASS OFF THE COUCH!!

I think people need MORE of vested interest in what their healthcare actually costs, not less. Even with the employer based plans I think few people really know exactly what their health care costs every year. Especially when employers cover 100% of the premium. There is no incentive to stay healthy and follow preventative procedures when your healthcare is "free". Americans do not value anything that is "free", we abuse the shit out of it.

travesty

10-19-2009, 04:19 AM

You sure are depressing. I'm reading all of the above and all I get is the negativity in your presentation. it's not truly anything pro-universal health.... not once do you address a solution.

Except where I said

I just feel like the White House and all of Washington is deflecting instead of having the balls to stand up and do the hard work to corral the pharma co's, address medical tort reform, streamline record keeping and get Medicare and Medicaid in check.

Still waiting on that thirty cents on the dollar explanation.

yeahwho

10-19-2009, 07:23 AM

Still waiting on that thirty cents on the dollar explanation.

.70 cents of my insurance contribution is never going to be realized by me.

Get it?

travesty

10-19-2009, 11:28 AM

.70 cents of my insurance contribution is never going to be realized by me.

Get it?

No.
Where are you coming up with that figure?

Echewta

10-19-2009, 12:21 PM

Is it really necessary to quote someones entire post especially when you are the one responding right after it?

yeahwho

10-19-2009, 04:54 PM

Is it really necessary to quote someones entire post especially when you are the one responding right after it?

no

Echewta

10-19-2009, 06:53 PM

*makes fist*

yeahwho

10-20-2009, 06:49 PM

goes ahead and quotes from Obama Saga thread.

*makes fist back*

Nothing was off-topic on this thread until you said;

"The Republican party and many minions of this mindset are totally against job creation here at home. The mere mention of saving GM sets people into hysterics, what if he decided to help out other failing industries?"

and

"The logic you display with that statement is the same logic you apply in the other thread with the sad statistics of Health insurance corporate profits... which you neglected to say are in the billions for the top companies. Billions in profits."

I tried to get you to clarify these statements and that is when you started crying that I was being mean and consdescending. I apologize to everyone else on here that it came to that.

For the last time I am not sticking up for the insurance companies. I am trying to present facts that dispute the misinformation that the White House is spouting in order to acheive their agenda. Aren't getting the facts the reason why we come to this board?

FACT; I mentioned that health insurance companies made billions of dollars. (which is absolutely 100% correct)

The White House isn't achieving "their" agenda, I along with the majority of Americans voted Obama in for universal health care.

If you do not want universal health care say so. It is never going to be good enough for you, I know from your tone. The Health Insurance Industry has had multiple decades to repair itself and guess which road they've taken.

The road that has doubled my premiums (and everybody else I know) within the past 9 years, the road that has led to an increase by 25% of deaths due directly to lack of health insurance in the US (http://www.harvardscience.harvard.edu/medicine-health/articles/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-lack-health-coverage).

We the people (not you) voted to change this way of health care in the USA. They can change or not. You can change or not. I don't know what to say about all of this adamant defense of an industry that honestly has been proven multiple times to not actually do it's main function.... and that function is not to make stockholders and CEO's happy. This is so obviously morbid but you know what 100 years ago what was considered OK would not fly today either. Changing our health care industry is not going to collapse the planet.

travesty

10-20-2009, 07:44 PM

FACT; I mentioned that health insurance companies made billions of dollars. (which is absolutely 100% correct)
I never disputed that. You are 100% they do make billions of dollars in profits. My question to to you is so what? What are trying to say? I can only assume that you are trying to say that you think that is too much $$ for them to be making but maybe you mean something else? I dunno.

The White House isn't achieving "their" agenda, I along with the majority of Americans voted Obama in for universal health care.

FAIL

If you do not want universal health care say so. It is never going to be good enough for you, I know from your tone. The Health Insurance Industry has had multiple decades to repair itself and guess which road they've taken.
The road that has doubled my premiums (and everybody else I know) within the past 9 years, the road that has led to an increase by 25% of deaths due directly to lack of health insurance in the US (http://www.harvardscience.harvard.edu/medicine-health/articles/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-lack-health-coverage).

Having people uninsured is not acceptable, I agree 100%. What I am trying to make clear is that you are blaming the wrong people for the COST of your/ our care. Health insurance providers have not arbitrarily decided to raise premiums "just because". The COST of care they are paying for has increased, thus necesitating an increase in premiums to cover the payments they make on behalf of their insureds. They are making 3.3% average net profit. How much were they making 7 years ago? 3.1%
As I have mentioned many times already, yes the insurance companies need to be held accountable for controlling the access to care but we need to put the blame for the COST of health care where it rightfully belongs. And that is a whole other topic.

We the people (not you) voted to change this way of health care in the USA. ......... Changing our health care industry is not going to collapse the planet.

That's exactly right my man. WE THE PEOPLE are being a spoonful of turds. We are not getting what we want at all. What I am trying to make clear is that while the government is busy fucking with the insurance industry, the real reasons for our outlandish costs are being ignored. If we don't fix them them evenb a government run plan will fail, thereby bankrupting the country.See how bad of shape Medicare and Medicaid are in already? The problems with those programs has nothing to do with provate insurance companies it has to do with the exhorbitant COST of care in this country.

yeahwho

10-20-2009, 08:27 PM

Yes, I agree it is the whole health care industry. When I mention the lobby of 1.3 million dollars a day it does encompass all of the health care sector.

Chart (http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009/06/diagnosis-reform.html). My problem with this is that we as citizens are not getting a fair say in the matter and defending the industry is insane. As you so eloquently pointed out in your statement above (FAIL) the odds of combating such huge sums of money and getting a fair shake is very, very low.

from above linkage; For some individuals, how Congress aims to reform America's health care system is literally a matter of life and death. For some industries, it could mean the difference between weathering the economic storm or shuttering their businesses. Nobody knows yet what the shape or scope of the final bill will be. It may not even make it to President Obama's desk. But one thing is certain: The American health care system is set to get a lobotomy and diverse special interests are spending big bucks to make sure they're in the surgery room when it happens.

This is a point of frustration for millions (the majority of Americans) because when we decided to let the Insurance companies and all the rest of the health sector to sit at the table and discuss health care reform they used a very small percentage of the Billions in profits to quietly muzzle representation by elected lawmakers.

To me that is morbid.

travesty

10-20-2009, 10:23 PM

the odds of combating such huge sums of money and getting a fair shake is very, very low.

Especially when we label the people who tried to convey their anger to un-responsive politicians as wacko, astroturf, zealots, and Un-American TeaBaggers.

This is a point of frustration for millions (the majority of Americans) because when we decided to let the Insurance companies and all the rest of the health sector to sit at the table and discuss health care reform they used a very small percentage of the Billions in profits to quietly muzzle representation by elected lawmakers.
To me that is morbid.

and shameful. What happend to the big table debate being aired on CSPAN we were promised? I am resigned to the fact that we are not going to get even close to what we want... I'm just really, really hoping that whatever it is, it's a step forward, not back. I'm still skeptical.