Philadelphia Public Library to shut down

[DroppinScience]

Wow, this is so depressing it took me such a long time to process the reality of it.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2009/09/sign-of-the-times-philadelphias-public-library-to-close.html

This is the first public library in the U.S. (Benjamin Franklin got it started). This is the sixth largest public library system in America. This is the first major metropolitan city in the U.S. to be without a public library system. All those jobs the library employs gone, and people with serious barriers to access to information (e.g. the homeless, immigrants, etc.) will have it very rough. This is just devastating on so many levels. (n)(n)(n)

[DroppinScience]

If you're in the area and you don't want the library to close, go here to take action:

http://www.library.phila.gov/about/actionnow.htm

[Micodin]

Craziness.

I live in Philadelphia. People have been talking about today.

Most I have spoken to are in agreement that it sucks, but admit that they haven't been to any form of a library in years.

[Documad]

I rely heavily on my public library, but among the younger set, it seems like it's just a place where they go to use the internet. I fear that all traditional public libraries are doomed.

[Randetica]

not a library but here we just made it possible to save a green place, felt good
(no hippie)

[DroppinScience]

I rely heavily on my public library, but among the younger set, it seems like it's just a place where they go to use the internet. I fear that all traditional public libraries are doomed.

Nonsense. Statistics show that during recessions (including this one), the public library is used more than ever (it's cheaper to borrow books, movie, music, etc. than buying/renting them). Even if some or many people use it for the Internet, that is also great and really important. Remember, the library is one of the few public places that allows free Internet. This is really important for those in low-income or poverty brackets.

The problem is that as the library is used more in a recession, budgets for the library dwindle as well (you also have to pave roads and maintain a fire and police force). In the case of Philadelphia, the state legislature had to cut money somewhere and the sad part is that they chose the library. A true shame. If funding comes back, it's believed the library will re-open, but until that time comes, there will be a lot of devastated people.

Also, it's important to know the library is more than a place where books are kept. Not only is free Internet there, but it also brings a sense of community. There is programming for kids, teens, and adults. People learn information literacy and technology literacy. It is a vital, vital service to bring. As the unemployment numbers rise, the library is an important place for those to go job searching, send resumes, and have a cheap source of entertainment, self-enlightenment, and overall betterment of a person.

I sincerely hope the blowback from this decision will cause lawmakers to reconsider this horrible, horrible decision.

[YoungRemy]

The entire system? Every single branch?

that's sad...

[DroppinScience]

Craziness.

I live in Philadelphia. People have been talking about today.

Most I have spoken to are in agreement that it sucks, but admit that they haven't been to any form of a library in years.

I think what you have here is a complacency of "I haven't visited/used the library in years, but it'll always be there." Just kind of taking it for granted. I know I went through a period of years where I stopped using the library (I previously was there all the time) before kind of rediscovering it and becoming a dedicated library patron again.

"You don't know what you got 'til it's gone."

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Nice thread. Public Libraries must be protected -- they are one of the most important aspects of our society.

[Matchstikk]

This is unbelievable to me. I use my local library at least once a week. Sigh.

[jackrock]

This is also sad and disturbing...

Welcome to the library. Say goodbye to the books. (http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2009/09/04/a_library_without_the_books/)

Instead of a library, the academy is spending nearly $500,000 to create a “learning center,’’ though that is only one of the names in contention for the new space. In place of the stacks, they are spending $42,000 on three large flat-screen TVs that will project data from the Internet and $20,000 on special laptop-friendly study carrels. Where the reference desk was, they are building a $50,000 coffee shop that will include a $12,000 cappuccino machine.

[YoungRemy]

I went to the central Chicago Public Library during Lollapalooza to get some info about getting around town and to use their wi-fi. I ended staying for three hours, seeing an exhibit on Abe Lincoln and a presentation for Chicago2016 as Olympic host city.

I can't imagine them closing resources like this to the public forever.

[DroppinScience]

This is also sad and disturbing...

Welcome to the library. Say goodbye to the books. (http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2009/09/04/a_library_without_the_books/)

Holy crap, this is one of the most boneheaded decisions I've heard. Librarianship in the 21st century should be a healthy balance between the traditional and the new technologies. Neglecting either is irresponsible and shortsighted. Those who see books as "old" needs to be pelted with a giant-ass dictionary or something. (n)

[yeahwho]

I was reading somewhere that this would be the time for the Phillies, 76ers, Eagles and Flyers multi-millionaire players to pony up and do a solid for the community.

Why not have some sort of drive to fund these much needed public facilities in the town that butters your bread?! I'm sure they would get no end of support from the fans.

I might as will be pissing up a rope.

[Documad]

Nonsense. Statistics show that during recessions (including this one), the public library is used more than ever (it's cheaper to borrow books, movie, music, etc. than buying/renting them). Even if some or many people use it for the Internet, that is also great and really important. Remember, the library is one of the few public places that allows free Internet. This is really important for those in low-income or poverty brackets.

I go to the library every week. I go to about six libraries in town -- in suburbs and downtown in two large cities. I go on my lunch hour, at nights and on weekends. There are certainly people using the computers, but there are no people walking in the stacks. When I check out my books, I almost never run into anyone who is also checking out a book. There used to be lines. I know that's not statistics but it's what I observe every time I go to the library.

The library used to be full of kids who were looking at books. People aren't as fond of books as they used to be. Kids for sure aren't as fond of books.

I agree that it's important to find ways to get poor people access to the internet, but if that's really the goal there are cheaper ways to do that. You could put a bunch of internet stations in a pretty small building and save all the real estate.

I am old fashioned when it comes to this stuff. I love my libraries and I'm willing to pay for them. In fact, I donate cash money to the library on a regular basis above and beyond my taxes. We have one of the best library systems in the country. But I think it's going to die. As sad as it makes me, I have to admit that it's not a vital place. The death rattle has been audible for some time.

[Documad]

I was reading somewhere that this would be the time for the Phillies, 76ers, Eagles and Flyers multi-millionaire players to pony up and do a solid for the community.

Why not have some sort of drive to fund these much needed public facilities in the town that butters your bread?! I'm sure they would get no end of support from the fans.

I might as will be pissing up a rope.

Robber barons built many of our oldest libraries. It makes me nostalgic for robber barons.

[DroppinScience]

I go to the library every week. I go to about six libraries in town -- in suburbs and downtown in two large cities. I go on my lunch hour, at nights and on weekends. There are certainly people using the computers, but there are no people walking in the stacks. When I check out my books, I almost never run into anyone who is also checking out a book. There used to be lines. I know that's not statistics but it's what I observe every time I go to the library.

The library used to be full of kids who were looking at books. People aren't as fond of books as they used to be. Kids for sure aren't as fond of books.

I agree that it's important to find ways to get poor people access to the internet, but if that's really the goal there are cheaper ways to do that. You could put a bunch of internet stations in a pretty small building and save all the real estate.

I am old fashioned when it comes to this stuff. I love my libraries and I'm willing to pay for them. In fact, I donate cash money to the library on a regular basis above and beyond my taxes. We have one of the best library systems in the country. But I think it's going to die. As sad as it makes me, I have to admit that it's not a vital place. The death rattle has been audible for some time.

There are many examples of library use going up during this recession. Just a few examples in the media:

http://www.utne.com/2008-08-01/GreatWriting/Recession-A-Mixed-Blessing-for-Libraries.aspx

http://www.rrstar.com/news/x497776353/More-residents-check-out-library-to-save-money

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/28-6

None of these stories from various parts of the U.S. show any evidence of "public libraries are doomed" at least for the point of view of the patron. In fact, they value and use it more than ever. Again, the big problem is funding from governments (which is tough during recession times).

Another thing, your random observations of visiting a public library at various points during the week is hardly substantive evidence of anything. I can also tell you that my experience (both as a patron and particularly as an employee of a library) has shown that the public library can get very crowded with patrons (this is true on the weekends and evenings especially) of all ages and races using various library materials (this includes using the Internet, browsing periodicals, looking at books, browsing through movies/music collections). I could also point out that the public library in Washington DC (which I relied upon heavily while interning at the Smithsonian) was heavily used and I had to wait in lines longer than I was used to just to get my stuff signed out at the circulation desk. but this wouldn't be all that substantive evidence either.

What you should know about the library and library use is that it's changing and evolving. Keep in mind that just because you might see few people wandering the book shelves does not mean that people are not searching the library catalog (both at home and on the library computer stations) and placing holds on books and materials instead of wandering the shelves. I myself do this a lot because I don't always have time to go to the shelf and find things there. Also, the library offers a great deal of resources that you can access online (both from home and inside the library) such as e-books, licensed databases, digital libraries, and everything else. For example, my library recently introduced a great deal of resources that you can download on your iPod and other devices, so this cannot be known or ascertained just from a random visit of the physical library.

You may also not realize that public libraries often provide services for the deaf or blind or seniors who are physically not able to visit a physical branch. You also will not see this reflected in your visit to your local or downtown branch library.

In all honesty, I really do not know what you're talking about when you say that the library "is not a vital place." You might want to tell inner city youth, the homeless, and new immigrants that the place that is helping to better themselves and integrate themselves into society is not a vital place or a vital service.

Once again, people going to visit a library just to use the computers (and you're being highly presumptuous that this is the only thing people are doing anyways) is not a bad thing or the sound of a death rattle. It is one function among many that the library offers.

I know I say this as someone enrolled in a library school, but I'm not pulling this stuff out of thin air. Trust me on this. ;)

[Documad]

Yeah, I'm familiar with libraries in big cities, the book reservation system, and how books get to patrons of all races and abilities. I have books on hold right now! :p I think that libraries are great. I also love newspapers. Many of the things I love are dying and it makes me sad.

My library system recently had to merge with another system and they closed a bunch of branches including my closest one, but I usually go to the huge one downtown because they have the best reference books even though it costs an arm and a leg to park and the hours are stupid. (They won't ship me reference books plus I like to browse.)

Hey, but I never gave up on vinyl records and they made a comeback. So you never know. :)

(As for the computers comment -- I'm only saying what I see. Maybe kids are more intellectual elsewhere. The computers are full of kids playing games and screwing around and making a racket. I don't mind. It's still better having them in a library rather than watching TV at home, or running around with no supervision, and they're interacting with each other instead of playing alone. There are rarely kids in the book area and when they are they're looking at graphic novels. Which again doesn't bother me. I love graphic novels and anything that makes kids read is fine with me. When I was a kid we read shitty mystery novels. My city libraries have changed dramatically. That's great. It also costs a fortune. So we're apparently going to have a lot less physical library buildings. I'm luckier than most. I am pretty sure that I'll have access to terrific libraries longer than most people because of where I live. We pay a lot of taxes.)

[yeahwho]

My library system is awesome, plenty of new releases and a slew of great books on all the shelves. I always grab 3-4 CD's and rip them for my commute.

The one thing I've noticed though this past year is it is packed, people need the resources such as internet and references for jobs, plus it's free for families and actually a great place to visit.

We're pretty bookish in the NW. I hung out in the Seattle Library system like crazy when I was in the final few years of a alcoholic haze.

Now I read books from the Sno-Isle system (http://www.sno-isle.org/page/?ID=3319).

[Schmeltz]

This story really made me shake my head. One thing that's impressed me about living and working in outback Australia for the last few months is the libraries and the pride that communities seem to take in them. Everywhere I go I see families queued up with stacks of books and movies, young and old people on the computers, displays of artwork by locals, advertising for municipal events and festivals - just a kind of focal cultural energy and vibrancy. I stayed for two weeks in a town of twelve people, and along with advertising the fact that scenes from Crocodile Dundee were shot in the pub, they couldn't get over the fact that they possessed Queensland's smallest library. It was open for four hours, one day a week, and the "stacks" wouldn't have occupied a single corner on a single floor of my university's library, but it was a library, dammit. And the dozen citizens who lived there weren't about to shut it down.

So to read that one of the largest and oldest municipal libraries in the richest country in the world is being shut down is saddening and bemusing. How can twelve people in a dying town in middle-of-nowhere Australia sustain a library, however minimally, when Philly can't manage to keep theirs going? It's got to boil down to a difference in values and what people consider important in their lives and in their culture. People out here value their libraries for the contributions they make to their day-to-day lives. If the libraries of America are dying, then the opposite must be true. All I can say is I know which society I'd rather live in.

[DroppinScience]

My library system is awesome, plenty of new releases and a slew of great books on all the shelves. I always grab 3-4 CD's and rip them for my commute.

The one thing I've noticed though this past year is it is packed, people need the resources such as internet and references for jobs, plus it's free for families and actually a great place to visit.

We're pretty bookish in the NW. I hung out in the Seattle Library system like crazy when I was in the final few years of a alcoholic haze.

Now I read books from the Sno-Isle system (http://www.sno-isle.org/page/?ID=3319).



Yes, I've heard the Seattle Public Library is great in your area. I also heard that on the week before Labor Day, the entire library system had to shut down completely due to budget cuts for one week. It was either close completely for one day out of the week permanently and lay off a certain amount of staff or temporarily shut down the library for one week. As drastic as closing completely for one week was, it was the better decision in the long run than having permanently reduced hours and a shortage of staff.

And let me clarify to Documad about the "death" of public libraries. The present threat to them is not due to a lack of interest from the community (young or old). It is the fiscal concerns of legislators and unfortunately some of these legislators believe they can cut out the library. And the Pennsylvania State Legislature is dominated by the GOP, so I guess it wasn't that much of a shock that they'd close libraries to save money. :rolleyes:

P.S. - Of course you can't sign out reference books, Doc! They're to be used only within the libraries for looking up things really quick. Sheesh. :D

[DroppinScience]

Social ramifications of the closure:



•No access to the Internet for low-income earners
•Cancellation of after-school educational programs in libraries
•GED and ESL programs discontinued
•Obviously, no free books, magazines or movies

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/philadelphia-libraries-cl_n_287745.html

[valvano]

solution : send extra money when paying your already high tax bills and designate it go to the library.

put your money where your mouth is...

[DroppinScience]

solution : send extra money when paying your already high tax bills and designate it go to the library.

put your money where your mouth is...

Well yeah, you're free to make donations to your local library, but that's not the only means to an end.

[DroppinScience]

More light shed on the Philadelphia Library debacle:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/pa/20090912_Questions_and_answers_on_Phila__budget.ht ml

This problem goes deeper than just closing the libraries.

Summary:

* The city came up with a budget plan that requires raising the sales
tax and deferring pension payments, both of which require state
approval. There were other options, including further cuts or increased
wage, property or business taxes. They chose to go this route, which
requires state involvement.

* Plan C, called the "doomsday" budget in the article, involves
eliminating court-system funding, shutting down all libraries and
recreation centres, cuts to public-safety programs and the layoff of
around 3,000 employees.

* The state legislature is supposed to rule today on the budget. If not
approved, layoff notices go out tomorrow.

[Documad]

I don't want you to take this wrong because I love the library and I think it's important to give low income people and recent immigrants access to educational materials. But sadly that argument isn't going to win the day.

Looking at that last story on Philadelphia, it looks like they're cutting court staff and public safety workers too. That likely means that more criminals will be released and there will be less enforcement of certain laws. When our local governments are in this much trouble, and they're cutting people who protect us from violence, it's going to be awfully difficult to convince the folks to care about whether there are libraries in struggling neighborhoods. It's a short-sighted viewpoint, but so is our position on medical care for poor kids. :rolleyes:

When the economy tanks and the people making money and paying taxes start making less money and thus paying less taxes, the state quits giving money to local government and local government both (1) raises property taxes and (2) cuts services for things that enrich our lives. This is particularly true when the state governor or state legislature vow not to raise the tax rate on anyone ever.

[DroppinScience]

I don't want you to take this wrong because I love the library and I think it's important to give low income people and recent immigrants access to educational materials. But sadly that argument isn't going to win the day.

Looking at that last story on Philadelphia, it looks like they're cutting court staff and public safety workers too. That likely means that more criminals will be released and there will be less enforcement of certain laws. When our local governments are in this much trouble, and they're cutting people who protect us from violence, it's going to be awfully difficult to convince the folks to care about whether there are libraries in struggling neighborhoods. It's a short-sighted viewpoint, but so is our position on medical care for poor kids. :rolleyes:

When the economy tanks and the people making money and paying taxes start making less money and thus paying less taxes, the state quits giving money to local government and local government both (1) raises property taxes and (2) cuts services for things that enrich our lives. This is particularly true when the state governor or state legislature vow not to raise the tax rate on anyone ever.

Think of it this way, the loss of a library (coupled with the set back of several other city services) is interconnected with the other city budget woes and setbacks. No library and recreation facilities (and fewer people to protect from violence) is going to mean more crime and poverty. It sounds like a deep, DEEP hole Philadelphia is in.

Shit, in some ways this is sounding worse than the Great Depression for some, huh?

[DroppinScience]

UPDATE: Philadelphia Public Library is saved!

http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA6697623.html

(y)(y)(y)

Let this stand as proof of the power PEOPLE have!

More than 2,000 letters to state legislators were collected from our libraries, and countless others made calls and sent emails underscoring how important public libraries are to the economic, educational and social life of our city.

http://libwww.freelibrary.org/blog/index.cfm?srch=3&postid=952

I think public libraries are safe now.

[Documad]

Don't you think it's possible that the state legislature allowed the city's tax increase so that someone would pick up the garbage or police the streets? :p I understand that the librarians are focusing on the libraries but it seems like this concerned the city's budget as a whole. Anyhow, I hope they're able to turn the situation around in the city. Bad times.

[DroppinScience]

Don't you think it's possible that the state legislature allowed the city's tax increase so that someone would pick up the garbage or police the streets? :p

I'm pretty sure most people want garbage men collecting the garbage, police on the streets, AND an open public library. Can't we have it both ways? :D

[Documad]

I'm pretty sure most people want garbage men collecting the garbage, police on the streets, AND an open public library. Can't we have it both ways? :D

Yes!!! I just think it's cute that the librarians' statement seemed to take credit for the legislative action but it's certainly possible that the librarians did a better job of gathering letters to legislators than the garbagemen did. :p

I hope that people all over the country appreciate the services their local communities offer. We take a lot for granted. When we were facing a shutdown several years ago, people realized that they take the rest stops on public highways for granted, and the state parks, etc.

[SOP]

That was close.

[valvano]

i dont understand....

Philly...Democratically controlled..heavily unionized...high taxes

PA....Democrats in control...heavily unionized...high taxes....

I would think that Philadelphia would be a liberal's paradise...yet your library was going to close due to funding issues??????

:confused:

things like this arent supposed to happen when Dem control the machine...