This is the same govt you want running healthcare??

[valvano]

anybody here remember this case? govt takes private land ala emminent domain (steals actually), ruins a neighborhood, and now we have a vacant lot and no promised jobs / tax revenue:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-famous-kelo-house-property-is-now-a-vacant-lot-2009-11


sort of like whats happening now. our health system isnt perfect but sure is a lot better than other places. but in the name of a small % of people, we are going to screw up the whole system with yet another govt "fix"...

[Echewta]

Not really.

"the town of New London, Connecticut claimed Kelo's house by right of eminent domain." So it was actually the local government.

"Five Supreme Court justices upheld the taking, ruling that although the primary beneficiary was a corporation, it met the constitutional requirement of "'public use.'" So it was the Supreme Court backing it up.


"Pfizer Inc. will shut down its massive New London research and development headquarters" And big business. Drug business of all people.

Where is this "same" government of the Executive and Legislative Branch of the Federal government in the attached story? Aren't they the ones pushing for health care reform (public option, not universal health care)?

[saz]

private health insurance companies are like the mafia. they take a 30% cut of your money for their own profit. they'll also screw you out of your coverage for bullshit reasons. so fuck them.

[QueenAdrock]

Yeah, I really don't get why the very people who are being screwed by insurance companies are also the ones who scream about the wonders of a deregulated free market and stand up for private insurance companies. Maybe they don't even realize they're being screwed, that's all I can think of.

[RobMoney$]

I really don't get how people who are supposedly educated and portray themselves as knowledgable on the healthcare debate can soo completely misrepresent the issues?
I guess they aren't as smart as they think they are, or they don't understand the opposite sides issues in the debate, that's all I can think of.

[QueenAdrock]

Seriously, stop being so obsessed with me. (n)

[yeahwho]

Seriously, stop being so obsessed with me. (n)

I was going to defend you but Rob is so obsessed with me he still has me quoted out of context (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1691841&postcount=44) in his signature.

[DroppinScience]

At least you guys have somebody who obsesses over you. I'm starting to feel lonely now. :(

[Echewta]

Again, what does this story have to do with big government? I see more how this is a story about private buisness using local buisness and the courts to do their will.

And Rob and Queen Vs.

[Documad]

Again, what does this story have to do with big government? I see more how this is a story about private buisness using local buisness and the courts to do their will.


Yeah, I don't think that anyone proposes putting our healthcare system in the hands of New London, but then I haven't read the actual bill.

The supreme court made a mistake in that Kelo case. The Kelo backlash caused all kinds of havoc at the state level, making it more difficult for legitimate public works projects to go forward.

[QueenAdrock]

Again, what does this story have to do with big government?

It doesn't. It's Valvano's attempt to link together a government mishap with reasoning why we shouldn't adopt universal care (though, like has been pointed out, the Kelo event was on a state level anyways and like comparing apples and oranges). It doesn't work.

However, saying that the US system is better than other places IS true -- only if you're comparing the US to third world countries. On the Western stage, it's miles behind. The healthiest countries and best systems have universal care; no one can argue with the statistics, which is why it's mind-boggling that there's such resistance to a SCARY government takeover.

[Bob]

so i guess the response to the original post in the thread is "no, this is not the same government"

[Documad]

so i guess the response to the original post in the thread is "no, this is not the same government"

It should have been a poll, but it appears that New London has gotten zero votes thus far.

[freetibet]

Yeah, I really don't get why the very people who are being screwed by insurance companies are also the ones who scream about the wonders of a deregulated free market and stand up for private insurance companies. Maybe they don't even realize they're being screwed, that's all I can think of.

It's because the gov is the largest entity screwing people around. Wherever/whenever it lays its hands upons something, money is being stolen that's for sure.

[Documad]

It's because the gov is the largest entity screwing people around. Wherever/whenever it lays its hands upons something, money is being stolen that's for sure.
As opposed to insurance companies who are doing the lord's work?

[Echewta]

Or private companies with huge salaries, bonuses, lobbing for their good, not ours, etc.?

Face it, its all a pile of crap and you have to go with the pile of crap to get crap done.

[saz]

both insurance companies and practitioners are committing massive fraud (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGdU8_mErh4)which is contributing to the massive waste of the privatized for-profit system.



Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year

Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:10pm EDT
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. healthcare system is just as wasteful as President Barack Obama says it is, and proposed reforms could be paid for by fixing some of the most obvious inefficiencies, preventing mistakes and fighting fraud, according to a Thomson Reuters report released on Monday.

The U.S. healthcare system wastes between $505 billion and $850 billion every year, the report from Robert Kelley, vice president of healthcare analytics at Thomson Reuters, found.

"America's healthcare system is indeed hemorrhaging billions of dollars, and the opportunities to slow the fiscal bleeding are substantial," the report reads.

"The bad news is that an estimated $700 billion is wasted annually. That's one-third of the nation's healthcare bill," Kelley said in a statement.

"The good news is that by attacking waste we can reduce healthcare costs without adversely affecting the quality of care or access to care."

One example -- a paper-based system that discourages sharing of medical records accounts for 6 percent of annual overspending.

"It is waste when caregivers duplicate tests because results recorded in a patient's record with one provider are not available to another or when medical staff provides inappropriate treatment because relevant history of previous treatment cannot be accessed," the report reads.

Some other findings in the report from Thomson Reuters, the parent company of Reuters:

• Unnecessary care such as the overuse of antibiotics and lab tests to protect against malpractice exposure makes up 37 percent of healthcare waste or $200 to $300 billion a year.

• Fraud makes up 22 percent of healthcare waste, or up to $200 billion a year in fraudulent Medicare claims, kickbacks for referrals for unnecessary services and other scams.

• Administrative inefficiency and redundant paperwork account for 18 percent of healthcare waste.

• Medical mistakes account for $50 billion to $100 billion in unnecessary spending each year, or 11 percent of the total.

• Preventable conditions such as uncontrolled diabetes cost $30 billion to $50 billion a year.

"The average U.S. hospital spends one-quarter of its budget on billing and administration, nearly twice the average in Canada," reads the report, citing dozens of other research papers.

"American physicians spend nearly eight hours per week on paperwork and employ 1.66 clerical workers per doctor, far more than in Canada," it says, quoting a 2003 New England Journal of Medicine paper by Harvard University researcher Dr. Steffie Woolhandler.

Yet primary care doctors are lacking, forcing wasteful use of emergency rooms, for instance, the report reads.

All this could help explain why Americans spend more per capita and the highest percentage of GDP on healthcare than any other OECD country, yet has an unhealthier population with more diabetes, obesity and heart disease and higher rates of neonatal deaths than other developed nations.

Democratic Senator Charles Schumer said on Sunday that Senate Democratic leaders are close to securing enough votes to pass legislation to start reform of the country's $2.5 trillion healthcare system.

[Echewta]

I agree with Valvano, I do not want New London CT running healthcare.