is anyone else completely bored with and have zero interest in hip-hop?

[saz]

sorry to the fans of the genre, but was just wondering if anyone else feels the same way.

[cj hood]

there's very little hiphop that has come out in the past 10 years that i'm into.....and i don't understand how some heads on here could list like ten hiphop cds they've listened to in the past week and give a complete synopsis of it....it takes me weeks to study an album.

i think some heads on here are on the middle-school aged tip....where they know they're supposed to like an album....everybody's saying it's soooo good...so in return they're spouting off how great it is...

if you don't know the name of the mc/crews' dj....then that mc/crew isn't hiphop.....so that eliminates 90% of the shit coming out these days.

look at my KINGS thread for some real hiphop.........

[mickill]

!@$%? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTYgAg6nVz4&feature=related)

I wouldn't expect to seriously convince anyone otherwise, but I don't think it's that bad at all. At the same time, you probably couldn't name one genre of music that didn't peak within the first 25 years of its inception. But Arguably half of the ten BEST (not necessarily most important, groundbreaking, historically significant or even most consistent) rappers ever all made their debuts in post-"golden era" years (think Nas, Jay-Z, Eminem, B.I.G., Andre 3000....maybe even Big L, Big Pun etc).

Even though I still consider '88 to '92 the absolute strongest years in Rap music, I think that has more to do with the fact that the market hadn't been completely saturated with garbage up to that point. But hip hop wasn't a multi billion dollar industry back then either. And artists/groups at that time knew they had a better chance of standing out if they DIDN'T sound like anybody else, and were actually original. Whereas now (or over the last 15 years or so), with "the machine" playing a MUCH bigger role, there's a lot more cookie-cutting and fewer artists trying to establish/present themselves in a unique way. But a lot of that has to do with the expectations of typical Rap fans; the majority of the people listening to CURRENT rap music fall somewhere in the 12-25 age group (ie., a generation conditioned to expect immediate gratification and instant access to absolutely every form of entertainment, be it porn or video games or music).

Generally, people who listen to rap don't want to hear something that different, they just want more of the same, but better. Rappers today spend more time branding and promoting themselves, trying to keep themselves relevant, trying to outdo each other using the same beat as one another (A Milli, D.O.A. etc), and comparing sales than they do trying to create strong bodies of work. But given the amount of music that's out there, and how easily accessible it all is (you don't have to hunt it down, save for it, or dub a copy from a friend), the music has to be more easily digestible if an artist/group is interested in making an actual living from it. Unless you're Outkast or Kanye, and started out doing "orthodox" rap, before branching out into experimentation, the public, or the people you're hoping to draw with your music, aren't typically patient enough to give something "different" a real chance. And when everything starts to sound repetitive, these same people complain. And you get what seems to happen in every form of music eventually; the same marquee artists hog the spotlight for a decade while a billion satellite artists who mimic them come and go, leaving little in the way of a lasting impact.

If more artists COULD concentrate on their art, and be less concerned with their first week sales and BDS spins, especially if it was actually encouraged by labels and fans, they might actually do that. I think KRS-One said something once about how the secret to longevity in hip hop is making sure it's not your primary source of income. And that's probably more true now than it was when he said it.

Dumb it down (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Et1siZhTk)

[saz]

thanks, that was a really informative and passionate contribution, outstanding. that's definitely a lot to chew on in terms of proverbial food for thought. initially i was going to say that part of the problem is that i'd just rather listen to jungle or rock or house or whatever, but your first link sounded decent, as in decent 90s sounding hip-hop when breakbeats (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SyMY9EBd0U) and good, creative sampling made the musical context so much more appealing (at least for my ears), as opposed to the post-98 rnb generic sounding tunes, which just bores the shit out of me.

[DroppinScience]

Do you mean current hip-hop or anything and everything from the genre?

I appreciate a lot of the stuff from the '80s and mid-90s. There's still some good stuff that has come out since but generally speaking, the stuff that's prevalent in the mainstream I have no interest in (with notable exceptions such as Kanye West, Outkast, N*E*R*D* and the like). I'm not much into the "gangsta" side of things and it feels played out. Stuff like Lil' Jon has zero appeal for me.

I do go for some of the more offbeat stuff like Buck 65 and The Roots and the like, they're pretty much following their own path which I appreciate.

I confess to not closely following hip-hop in the last year or two, so what do I know, really?

[checkyourprez]

current hip hop is still good. not all time dopest ever stuff, but its not shit by any means.


this year has been one of the best years for hip hop since the 90s.

[RobMoney$]

I was consideing making a thread about this very topic.

Hip Hop all together has not stood the test of time IMO. It was a fad.
It was incredible to have grown up along with the culture, but it's best days seem to clearly be behind it now.
Hip Hop is indeed DEAD.
I mean I can't really think of one album that has a chance at standing the test of time like the music of the 60's or 70's does.

Simply my opinion.

[TurdBerglar]

i can't stand most rap/hip hop. i don't get it at all. i mean i liked it when it was more musical and less lyric based. don't get me wrong i understand why it's good from a lyrical stand point with all the technicallity put into the lyrics. i just care more about the music as a whole. rap is just so simple musically. basically all rap is to me is take a snippet of a rock drum beat... loop it. take a snippet of a rock bassline... loop it. add some sound effects like bottles breaking and women moaning and have some dude yelling out some rhyms and you have a smash hit. every once in a while i hear a track that i really like. but that's really rare.

i like rap/hip hop from the late 80's to about the mid nineties. there was melody and shit. there was more fun in the music.

just recently i showed a buddy of mine who thinks jay z is the best thing in music ever. i showed him some drum beat out takes of john bonham on you tube and some basslines of jpj and geezer butler. not the whole songs. i didn't tell him who these guys were. and he was all like... if rock was more like this i'd be fucking great!
then i told him how old this shit was and that these bands were very legendary and everone in rock since then has basically copied them. then i showed him the full songs of the out takes. he was not impressed with the full songs at all. he thought they were "corny". he didn't seem to like all the other shit that was going on in the songs. i guess i don't get it and neither does he.

[The Notorious LOL]

A lot of its garbage but so is most music now anyway...and most music of almost every genre of almost every decade in the past. Everyone talks about how the 1970s was some kind of super decade and comb over the fact that it too had its musical abortions like Bay City Rollers. Most of the indie horseshit now is just as forgettable as most of the half assed rap thats released.

[TurdBerglar]

this is one of the things i showed him


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14GYov0EdyQ

[RobMoney$]

Everyone talks about how the 1970s was some kind of super decade and comb over the fact that it too had its musical abortions like Bay City Rollers.


I can name you at least 10 rock groups that had a span of 5 great albums in a row in the late 60's & 70's alone.
I mean the entire Beatles catalog was recorded in only 7 years during that period.
7 years, that's all.
I can't think of one rap act that even has 5 good albums peroid.
The Beasties are the only ones who even come close, and half of their catalog is made up of music other than rap.

[Drederick Tatum]

in every decade the majority of music has always been garbage. but it comes down to perspective. somewhere out there someone is amazed about how awesome contemporary hip hip is.

as with all art personal taste is everything and of course it's inherently subjective.

[gbsuey]

i'm kind of relieved to read this thread. i know the beasties totally transcend the genre "hip-hop" or any other, but somehow i figured i should have more passion for it. i do like a fair bit but most of it just bores me,probably why i love the boys so much-diversity. and of course, being awesome at what they do, so what is more hip hop is some of the best there is.


/\ and DT, i'd love you to play me some hip hip sometime!

[paul jones]

forget hip hop,what about all this 'folk' shit! It's really getting on my tit-ends right now

[Drederick Tatum]

/\ and DT, i'd love you to play me some hip hip sometime!

ha, thanks for the compliment, however I gotta say I don't really keep up with what's going on in hip hip these days. when something takes my fancy I'll definitely follow it up, like Stones Throw's current stable, but I'm pretty retrospective when it comes to music.

it's the music that hiphop used that interests me.

[camo]

I'm no big hip hop head but the only shit that seemed to have liked all comes from Rhymesayers.

[saz]

i don't get it at all. i mean i liked it when it was more musical and less lyric based. don't get me wrong i understand why it's good from a lyrical stand point with all the technicallity put into the lyrics. i just care more about the music as a whole.

i like rap/hip hop from the late 80's to about the mid nineties. there was melody and shit. there was more fun in the music.

spot on

i don't hate hip-hop, there are some really talented artists like jay-z et al still around, it's just that i find the majority of the music from that past ten years (generic r 'n b/party sound) to be painfully boring. i wish it could sound more like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwb5FT4fS6o).

[kaiser soze]

commercial crap - yes

underground/not as commercial - still diggin

I will never stop digging ninjatune, stones throw, and om artists

[checkyourprez]

spot on

i don't hate hip-hop, there are some really talented artists like jay-z et al still around, it's just that i find the majority of the music from that past ten years (generic r 'n b/party sound) to be painfully boring. i wish it could sound more like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwb5FT4fS6o).

:confused:

ehh.

[HEIRESS]

Oh No. (http://www.stonesthrow.com/ohno)

Heavy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPZC5esCJN8)

Move (http://www.youtube.com/user/stonesthrow#p/search/3/_Mtm6GqpPW8)

I can't find a link for one of my favorite songs by him called "bouncers"
he samples some crazy, obscure, ethnic shit (y)

[Drederick Tatum]

^I think he owes a lot of the credit to Finders Keepers for some of those samples.

last time I DJed I played Ince Ince (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1GRirCTLQ0)and these kids in my neighbourhood, who are mostly Turkish, stopped outside the bar and went mental. Yaylalar (http://www.ravensingstheblues.com/mp3/Yaylalar.mp3) is great too.

in other news, the album's cover (http://www.dustygroove.com/images/products/b/bagcan_seld_selda~~~~_101b.jpg) is awesome.

[The Notorious LOL]

I can name you at least 10 rock groups that had a span of 5 great albums in a row in the late 60's & 70's alone.
I mean the entire Beatles catalog was recorded in only 7 years during that period.
7 years, that's all.
I can't think of one rap act that even has 5 good albums peroid.
The Beasties are the only ones who even come close, and half of their catalog is made up of music other than rap.


Ok name 10 rock groups that had 5 great albums in a row.

[DroppinScience]

I discovered a hip-hop act I'm digging. I took out an album from the library on a whim from an artist called Kid Cudi, his debut album "Man on the Moon: The End of Day." I am digging it.

So I've got some faith in the genre today.

http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:gpfyxzlaldje

[checkyourprez]

the kid albums deece. if you like it get his plain pat mixtape, even better.



that new clipse album is fire. hip hops not dead, that cliche term is whats dead.


wu massacre album should be out within the next month or two. raekwon and kool g rap are supposedly doing an album. the genre has plenty going on in it if you look.

[cj hood]

!@$%? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTYgAg6nVz4&feature=related)

i'm loving this track....it's better than most of the new hiphop suggested in this forum....thanx mike!

[RobMoney$]

Ok name 10 rock groups that had 5 great albums in a row.


Tell you what, let's make it interesting.
You give me 10 groups I can't use.
Take the Beatles, Stones, Doors, Floyd, Zep, and anyone else you like.

And I'll still be able to give you 10 more bands after that that had what most people will consider to be 5 or more consecutive great, classic albums, and limited to the late 60's thru the 70's.

[checkyourprez]

im not feeling slaughterhouse at all.

i do really like the beat for microphone though.

[mate_spawn_die]

DJs are cool... i can dig some of it
Graffiti is cool... i can dig a little of it
Breakdancing is cool... i can dig it

MCs... not so much... rapping can get very boring to me

[The Notorious LOL]

Tell you what, let's make it interesting.
You give me 10 groups I can't use.
Take the Beatles, Stones, Doors, Floyd, Zep, and anyone else you like.

And I'll still be able to give you 10 more bands after that that had what most people will consider to be 5 or more consecutive great, classic albums, and limited to the late 60's thru the 70's.

nah too lazy. you list 10. Thanks.

[Randetica]

i was hip hop addicted for a few years then lost total interest for a year or so now im twice as addicted


oh and fuck off from this board, it aint your genre

[gbsuey]

forget hip hop,what about all this 'folk' shit! It's really getting on my tit
-ends right now

Pssst santa.....paul jones would love the new mumford & sons with his socks this year.

I just re-read my post, didn't mean to sound so much like a bad pick-up line,sorry!

And absolutely it's the music that gets put together to make hip hop
that makes it good.

Liked Kid Cudi some, but rest was disappointing.

[Kid Presentable]

If hip-hop was all I listened to, then I'd possibly be a bit bored of it by now.

[hpdrifter]

I like the Kid Cudi.

[RobMoney$]

nah too lazy. you list 10. Thanks.

I can relate.
I'm still not going to use Beatles, Stones, Doors, Floyd, or Zep tho just because I already put it out there that I could.
My parameters were the late 60's and 70's, right? Let's call it 1967 to 1980 then, and they will all be consecutive studio albums.

1. David Bowie (8 consecutive classics): Space Oddity(1969), The Man Who Sold the World(1970), Hunky Dory(1971), Ziggy Stardust(1972), Aladdin Sane(1973), Diamond Dogs(1974), Young Americans(1975), Station To Station(1976)

2. Elton John (6 consecutive classics): Elton John(1970), Tumbleweed Connection(1970), Madman Across the Water(1971), Honky Chateau(1972), Don't Shoot Me(1973), Goodbye Yellow Brick Road(1973)

3. Stevie Wonder (5 consecutive): Music Of My Mind(1972), Talking Book(1972), Innervisions(1973), Fulfillingness First Finale(1974), Songs In The Key Of Life(1976)

4. Neil Young (5 consecutive): After the Gold Rush(1970), Harvest(1972), On the Beach(1974), Tonight's the Night(1975), Zuma(1975)

5. Aerosmith (5 consecutive): Aerosmith(1973), Get Your Wings(1974), Toys in the Attic(1975), Rocks(1976), Draw the Line(1977)

6. Queen (6 consecutive): Queen(1973), Queen II(1974), Sheer Heart Attack(1974), A Night at the Opera(1975), A Day at the Races(1976), News of the World(1977)

7. Black Sabbath (5 consecutive): Black Sabbath(1970), Paranoid(1970), Master of Reality(1971), Volume 4(1972), Sabbath Bloody Sabbath(1973)

8. The Ramones (5 consecutive): Ramones(1976), Leave Home(1977), Rocket to Russia (1977), Road to Ruin(1978), End of the Century (1980)

9. Bruce Springsteen (5 consecutive): Greetings From Asbury Park(1973)
The Wild The Innocent and The E Street Shufle(1973), Born To Run(1975), Darkness On The Edge Of Town(1978), The River (1980)

10. Creedence Clearwater Revival (5 consecutive): Creedence Clearwater Revival(1968), Bayou Country(1969), Green River(1969), Wily and the Poor Boys(1969), Cosmo's Factory(1970)



I didn't use people like Clapton or Stephen Stills who produced many consecutive classic albums during this time, but under a variety of band names. I'm sticking to one band with 5 consecutive classic albums during this time period.

Others I had under consideration: Santana, Parliament, Earth, Wind, & Fire, and Billy Joel.

[DroppinScience]

Don't forget Roxy Music and The Clash!

[checkyourprez]

for effs sake there is more to current hip hop than kid cudi.

[mickill]

I can relate.
I'm still not going to use Beatles, Stones, Doors, Floyd, or Zep tho just because I already put it out there that I could.
My parameters were the late 60's and 70's, right? Let's call it 1967 to 1980 then, and they will all be consecutive studio albums.

1. David Bowie (8 consecutive classics): Space Oddity(1969), The Man Who Sold the World(1970), Hunky Dory(1971), Ziggy Stardust(1972), Aladdin Sane(1973), Diamond Dogs(1974), Young Americans(1975), Station To Station(1976)

2. Elton John (6 consecutive classics): Elton John(1970), Tumbleweed Connection(1970), Madman Across the Water(1971), Honky Chateau(1972), Don't Shoot Me(1973), Goodbye Yellow Brick Road(1973)

3. Stevie Wonder (5 consecutive): Music Of My Mind(1972), Talking Book(1972), Innervisions(1973), Fulfillingness First Finale(1974), Songs In The Key Of Life(1976)

4. Neil Young (5 consecutive): After the Gold Rush(1970), Harvest(1972), On the Beach(1974), Tonight's the Night(1975), Zuma(1975)

5. Aerosmith (5 consecutive): Aerosmith(1973), Get Your Wings(1974), Toys in the Attic(1975), Rocks(1976), Draw the Line(1977)

6. Queen (6 consecutive): Queen(1973), Queen II(1974), Sheer Heart Attack(1974), A Night at the Opera(1975), A Day at the Races(1976), News of the World(1977)

7. Black Sabbath (5 consecutive): Black Sabbath(1970), Paranoid(1970), Master of Reality(1971), Volume 4(1972), Sabbath Bloody Sabbath(1973)

8. The Ramones (5 consecutive): Ramones(1976), Leave Home(1977), Rocket to Russia (1977), Road to Ruin(1978), End of the Century (1980)

9. Bruce Springsteen (5 consecutive): Greetings From Asbury Park(1973)
The Wild The Innocent and The E Street Shufle(1973), Born To Run(1975), Darkness On The Edge Of Town(1978), The River (1980)

10. Creedence Clearwater Revival (5 consecutive): Creedence Clearwater Revival(1968), Bayou Country(1969), Green River(1969), Wily and the Poor Boys(1969), Cosmo's Factory(1970)



I didn't use people like Clapton or Stephen Stills who produced many consecutive classic albums during this time, but under a variety of band names. I'm sticking to one band with 5 consecutive classic albums during this time period.

Others I had under consideration: Santana, Parliament, Earth, Wind, & Fire, and Billy Joel.

I agree that the 60s and 70s were essentially the strongest decades for Rock, Soul, R&B and probably a few other genres/sub-genres, but you're using a somewhat loose criteria for what should be deemed "classic" here. I mean, "solid", "quite good", or even "excellent" would probably suffice for at least 1/4 of these. Aladdin Sane and Diamond Dogs, classic? Really? Because of a handful of good songs on each? I mean, shouldn't a classic rate about a 9 or a 10? I mean, do they rank right up there with Ziggy Stardust, Hunky Dory or Heroes? Also, before you jump right to Diamond Dogs, let's not leave out Pin Ups, which came out shortly after Aladdin Sane, which would sort of interrupt that string of solid albums.

And I think that, more often than not, A Day At The Races is referred to as the slightly disappointing follow-up to A Night At The Opera, not another "classic". Also, Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only The Piano Player was a "good" album, but probably his most inconsistent up to that point (apart from Empty Sky).

Anyway, I'm not trying to pick apart your lists, but if you're going to consider an album like Draw The Line a "classic", I guess you could say that BDP, EPMD, Ghostface, Jay-Z, Outkast, De La Soul, Scarface, Slum Village have all had 5 or more consecutive "classics" as well.

[mickill]

Gang Starr, The Roots, Ice-T and Too $hort, also.

[yeahwho]

Shy Ronnie (http://www.hulu.com/watch/113207/saturday-night-live-digital-short-shy-ronnie#s-p1-sr-i2)

[RobMoney$]

I agree that the 60s and 70s were essentially the strongest decades for Rock, Soul, R&B and probably a few other genres/sub-genres, but you're using a somewhat loose criteria for what should be deemed "classic" here. I mean, "solid", "quite good", or even "excellent" would probably suffice for at least 1/4 of these. Aladdin Sane and Diamond Dogs, classic? Really? Because of a handful of good songs on each? I mean, shouldn't a classic rate about a 9 or a 10? I mean, do they rank right up there with Ziggy Stardust, Hunky Dory or Heroes? Also, before you jump right to Diamond Dogs, let's not leave out Pin Ups, which came out shortly after Aladdin Sane, which would sort of interrupt that string of solid albums.

And I think that, more often than not, A Day At The Races is referred to as the slightly disappointing follow-up to A Night At The Opera, not another "classic". Also, Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only The Piano Player was a "good" album, but probably his most inconsistent up to that point (apart from Empty Sky).

Anyway, I'm not trying to pick apart your lists, but if you're going to consider an album like Draw The Line a "classic", I guess you could say that BDP, EPMD, Ghostface, Jay-Z, Outkast, De La Soul, Scarface, Slum Village have all had 5 or more consecutive "classics" as well.


"Draw the Line" went 2X Platinum. Not bad for what you consider a weak link.
Is anyone still listening to Stankonia, Fishscale, or The Blue Print?
Jay-Z probably brings the most classic hip hop albums to the table out of those artists, and even his catalog is wildly incosistent.
Nobody's slapping on Bigger & Deffer, or Raising Hell anymore.
It's all just soo dated.

IMO, I think more people consider "Draw the Line" a classic album than anything produced by any of those artists will be 30 years after it's release.

[cj hood]

off the top...

RunDMC: RunDMC, King of Rock, Raising Hell, (even) Tougher Than Leather
LL Cool J: Radio, BAD, Panther, Mama
Beastie Boys: LTI, PB, CYH, IC, maybe HN
Fat Boys: Fat Boys, FB Are Back, maybe Big & Beautiful, even Crushin'
Whodini: Whodini, Escape, Open Sesame
Eric B & Rakim: Paid in Full, Follow the Leader, maybe Let the Rhythm Hit Em
PE: Yo, Nation of Millions, Terrordome, Apocalpse
EPMD: Strictly Business, Unfinished Business, Business as Usual, Business Never Personal

[mickill]

"Draw the Line" went 2X Platinum. Not bad for what you consider a weak link.
Is anyone still listening to Stankonia, Fishscale, or The Blue Print?
Jay-Z probably brings the most classic hip hop albums to the table out of those artists, and even his catalog is wildly incosistent.
Nobody's slapping on Bigger & Deffer, or Raising Hell anymore.
It's all just soo dated.

IMO, I think more people consider "Draw the Line" a classic album than anything produced by any of those artists will be 30 years after it's release.

Yeah, there's a good chance you'll come across a 100, 500 or 1000 greatest albums of all time list someday and see Draw The Line, but no Blueprint or Stankonia. Let me know when you find one.

Raising Hell might sound dated, but I don't think Draw the Line exactly sounds like it came out yesterday. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing for either.

And I don't think sales has any real bearing here, so I don't see what your point is with the 2X platinum thing. All of the rap albums you mentioned, with the exception of Fishscale, sold over 2 million copies each anyway.

[TurdBerglar]

a thing i don't understand about a lot of rap/hip hop fans is that they seem to completely disregard anything from the past. and by past i mean like 6 months to a year.

[Planetary]

The Ramones had two, maybe three good albums.

[camo]

off the top...

RunDMC: RunDMC, King of Rock, Raising Hell, (even) Tougher Than Leather
LL Cool J: Radio, BAD, Panther, Mama
Beastie Boys: LTI, PB, CYH, IC, maybe HN
Fat Boys: Fat Boys, FB Are Back, maybe Big & Beautiful, even Crushin'
Whodini: Whodini, Escape, Open Sesame
Eric B & Rakim: Paid in Full, Follow the Leader, maybe Let the Rhythm Hit Em
PE: Yo, Nation of Millions, Terrordome, Apocalpse
EPMD: Strictly Business, Unfinished Business, Business as Usual, Business Never Personal

Hell yes HN!!!

[The Notorious LOL]

Is anyone still listening to Stankonia, Fishscale, or The Blue Print?


I never considered Fishscale a classic, just a good album. Stankonia was never my favorite Outkast disc...but you can be certain that Aquemini is very regularly played on my Ipod...as is Blueprint.

Besides, I always thought Outkast got that Caucasian pass. Y'know, different enough that kids who normally hate rap can listen to it comfortably. Either way with the exception of Idlewild and Speakerboxx, their catalog is very solid.

[mickill]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Stankonia, personally, but that's pretty much their most successful album. Critics and people who aren't really "into" rap gave it that Fugees/Black Eyed Peas love.

[RobMoney$]

off the top...

RunDMC: RunDMC, King of Rock, Raising Hell, (even) Tougher Than Leather
LL Cool J: Radio, BAD, Panther, Mama
Beastie Boys: LTI, PB, CYH, IC, maybe HN
Fat Boys: Fat Boys, FB Are Back, maybe Big & Beautiful, even Crushin'
Whodini: Whodini, Escape, Open Sesame
Eric B & Rakim: Paid in Full, Follow the Leader, maybe Let the Rhythm Hit Em
PE: Yo, Nation of Millions, Terrordome, Apocalpse
EPMD: Strictly Business, Unfinished Business, Business as Usual, Business Never Personal


Which of these do you think stands the test of time and doesn't sound dated?

[yeahwho]

What I like about excellent hip hop is that it does have a freshness date. Much of the early rap was meant to resolve an issue happening that weekend not the year 2040.

It's cool to go back and listen to that slice of history, occasionally it applies to current history, which is fine by me. Still if it doesn't quite live up to today's standards or socio-political-economical-geographical climate that doesn't lesson the listening enjoyment, it just points out you're an old fucker.

[mickill]

Which of these do you think stands the test of time and doesn't sound dated?

Haha...seriously? Did people stop listening to early Sinatra and fucking Bach in the 70s? Because that shit must have sounded pretty "dated" by then too, no?

Do the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Zep, or The Doors not sound "dated" to you or something? Does the entire Beatles catalog sound like Tomorrow Never Knows? Are you currently only listening to music with futuristic appeal to you?

Like yeawho was saying, those albums cj hood listed sound like the music that was out at THAT time. Short of a few Krautrock joints, you'll find that this is pretty much the case with EVERY album ever made, unless the artist/band were taking a retro approach to it.

If only you were making some kind of a point here.

[mickill]

A few things that dropped in just the last couple of days that I've been listening to:

I'm Ill (http://usershare.net/0aeqpit9og25) - AZ
Meth Vs Chef Part II (http://usershare.net/2DopeBoyz/x5ia06hoacka) - Method Man & Raekwon
Leftovers (mixtape) (http://elzhi.com/) - Elzhi

Don't know if I'll still care for any of it 20+ years from now, though, so I might just save myself the disappointment and stop listening to the shit now.

[RobMoney$]

What I like about excellent hip hop is that it does have a freshness date. Much of the early rap was meant to resolve an issue happening that weekend not the year 2040.

Yeah, and all the anti-establishment songs of the sixties that still get prominent airplay today were written with the future in mind?
I just heard "Ohio" on the radio today, can't remember the last time I heard "My Adidas".

It's cool to go back and listen to that slice of history, occasionally it applies to current history, which is fine by me. Still if it doesn't quite live up to today's standards or socio-political-economical-geographical climate that doesn't lesson the listening enjoyment, it just points out you're an old fucker.

Or it just exposes the fact that some of the supposed knowledgeable music fans who post here wouldn't know what a "classic" album is if you hit them over the head with it?

[RobMoney$]

Don't know if I'll still care for any of it 20+ years from now, though, so I might just save myself the disappointment and stop listening to the shit now.

I have much respect for your music knowledge, Mike.
We just disagree on Hip Hop.

[yeahwho]

Yeah, and all the anti-establishment songs of the sixties that still get prominent airplay today were written with the future in mind?
I just heard "Ohio" on the radio today, can't remember the last time I heard "My Adidas".

My Adidas pwns Ohio. My Adidas pissed off way more people than Ohio, in fact it pissed off most of the generation that lapped up the whole "head shop - anti-war - social movement mentality" generation. RUN DMC is about self respect.


Or it just exposes the fact that some of the supposed knowledgeable music fans who post here wouldn't know what a "classic" album is if you hit them over the head with it?

Well, I hardly ever listen to Classic Rock radio because why don't they just call it what it is, "Oldies". I have some real issues with the term "Classic Rock". There is kick ass music then there is some lame old shit that gets bundled up to try and make Mom and Dads era seem more relevant that today.

Maybe they should call "Classic Rock" radio "Sanctimonious Rock" radio.

[checkyourprez]

i think what happened is the people who are saying they don't like todays rap, just were a lot more into rap in that early and full blow golden era of hip hop. and theres nothing wrong with it, 92-97 is some of my favorite shit. earlier than that there is still tons of stuff but some sounds dated.

but just because 5 classics were being released a week in the 90's doesnt mean there hasn't been some great albums this decade.


the sound is changed some, but thats the nature of music. just because your bored or don't like new hip hop doesn't mean its not good.

there really are tons of albums i could name that are dope and revered in the world of hip hop in the past decade, you just might not feel it, and thats your opinion you are entitled to.

[cj hood]

Which of these do you think stands the test of time and doesn't sound dated?

95% of them......personally, i played the piss out of them when they dropped so i haven't listened to them in a while.....but they're all records that are solid from start to finish....is there a bad track on Raisin Hell or B.A.D.?

like someone else mentioned in this thread: the new hiphop cds that everone's dick riding might be good, but they'll be forgotten within a year or until the next flava drops....

edit: mike mentioned az..i remember in '95 when the first az dropped and the source and the street kids were talking like he was the 2nd coming.....i bought the cd and even rocked it recently...there's like 2 good trax on it...maybe 3.....

[pshabi]

off the top...

RunDMC: RunDMC, King of Rock, Raising Hell, (even) Tougher Than Leather
LL Cool J: Radio, BAD, Panther, Mama
Beastie Boys: LTI, PB, CYH, IC, maybe HN
Fat Boys: Fat Boys, FB Are Back, maybe Big & Beautiful, even Crushin'
Whodini: Whodini, Escape, Open Sesame
Eric B & Rakim: Paid in Full, Follow the Leader, maybe Let the Rhythm Hit Em
PE: Yo, Nation of Millions, Terrordome, Apocalpse
EPMD: Strictly Business, Unfinished Business, Business as Usual, Business Never Personal

LOL homey.

And to nitpick it's "Fear of a Black Planet" not "terrordome."

[pshabi]

I never considered Fishscale a classic, just a good album. Stankonia was never my favorite Outkast disc...but you can be certain that Aquemini is very regularly played on my Ipod...as is Blueprint.


Word. I play Blueprint all the time in my car. Definition of "classic" imo.

[mickill]

I think AZ's first album, and probably the vast majority of his albums since then, was considered a disappointment. It did get 4 mics, (which is what the idiots at the Source gave Doggystyle, Midnight Marauders and Ironman, too), but I don't think he was able to live up to the expectations people had after Life's A Bitch/Illmatic in general.

[Documad]

It's natural to outgrow some of the stuff you loved when you were a young dude. I think there's an element of that with you guys. But I also agree with the people who pointed out that during any time period most music was pretty awful. You look at all those lists of classic rock albums and see what they've sold to date and it's misleading. Many of them sold most of their units after the baby boomers grew up. And many of us have bought 4 copies in different formats. But Captain and Tennille were mega popular back then. Muskrat Love. Seriously. I hated that shit when I was a little kid but it was EVERYWHERE. (True confession though -- I recently downloaded Bette Davis Eyes. :o)

I still don't like the Ramones. I like the idea of the Ramones and I am sometimes happy when one of their songs pops up on itunes but I couldn't really listen to one of their albums front to back.

But Roxy Music, I never get tired of. Good one, DS.

[Randetica]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Stankonia, personally

die right now!

[mickill]

1. Aquemini
2. ATLiens
3. Southernplayalistic...
4. Big Willie Style
5. Stankonia
6. Speakerboxxx/Love Below
7. Idlewild

In that order

[Planetary]

You know, i havn't heard a lot of Outkast's catalogue. maybe i ought to have an outkast day...

[RobMoney$]

It's natural to outgrow some of the stuff you loved when you were a young dude.


Yeah, I just feel like I've outgrown hip hop as a whole. Thus why I feel like it's all soo dated.
Maybe it's just the thread starter's and my problem?
It's just that I feel like hip hop has offered everything it has to offer, musically. I don't really hear anything "new" going on.
Perhaps hip hop needs it's version of a Chuck Berry, Beatles, or Nirvana to come along and burn it all down and completely re-invent the definition of hip hop?

I still don't like the Ramones. I like the idea of the Ramones and I am sometimes happy when one of their songs pops up on itunes but I couldn't really listen to one of their albums front to back.

But Roxy Music, I never get tired of. Good one, DS.

That's cool if you're not into them, but you'll agree though that the Ramones albums I listed are widely considered classics by the music world, right?

[Drederick Tatum]

the horn line on SpottieOttieDopaliscious is nearing the best thing in hip hop.

[BangBangBunny]

Hip Hop didn't start to suck until the fans started to suck.

Back in the day:

If you sounded like someone else - GARBAGE

If you had no substance and were just out for money (particularly corporate) - GARBAGE

If my parents thought you were listenable - GARBAGE

When you start getting into that Puffy '97 era (shiny, I got money, flossy) the number of "hip hop fans" grew and their dollars became more important than MC credibility. If fans weren't buying that crap, which never would have flown in your beloved 89-94 era, hip hop wouldn't have catered to it. But for every one reader of the Wu Tang Manual, there are 200 cheesy girls who like to drive around listening to crap du jour, and ultimately, that is way more important to the Machine from the top down.

Shame though... Stay flossy Playaz!

Peace,
BBB

[checkyourprez]

Yeah, I just feel like I've outgrown hip hop as a whole. Thus why I feel like it's all soo dated.
Maybe it's just the thread starter's and my problem?
It's just that I feel like hip hop has offered everything it has to offer, musically. I don't really hear anything "new" going on.
Perhaps hip hop needs it's version of a Chuck Berry, Beatles, or Nirvana to come along and burn it all down and completely re-invent the definition of hip hop?



That's cool if you're not into them, but you'll agree though that the Ramones albums I listed are widely considered classics by the music world, right?

the clipse - hell hath no fury.

mf doom - vaudeville villain

what are your opinions on those albums?

[Planetary]

you'll agree though that the Ramones albums I listed are widely considered classics by the music world, right?

wrong. anything after rocket to russia is questionable.

you only have to look at the album covers...

[mickill]

I think everything right up to End Of The Century was exceptional, but I would only consider Rocket To Russia and their first album as anything worthy of being called "classic".

[mickill]

the clipse - hell hath no fury.

mf doom - vaudeville villain

what are your opinions on those albums?

Side note: HHNF is easily one of the five best rap albums of the decade (along with The Blueprint, Black Album, College Dropout and Supreme Clientele).

[checkyourprez]

Side note: HHNF is easily one of the five best rap albums of the decade (along with The Blueprint, Black Album, College Dropout and Supreme Clientele).

agreed.

i think a doom related album has to replace one of those jay albums.

i dont rate him as high as a lot of people. respect his skill no doubt, but idk he just doesnt do it for me like that.

[mickill]

agreed.

i think a doom related album has to replace one of those jay albums.

i dont rate him as high as a lot of people. respect his skill no doubt, but idk he just doesnt do it for me like that.

Those are Jay's two strongest albums, in my opinion (Reasonable Doubt's solid, but a lot of those samples were use so many times before). Blueprint for obvious reasons, and Black Album for the monsters on it (99 Problems, PSA, Lucifer, What More Can I Say, etc). They're just two epic albums. I don't think any one Doom album can hold a candle to them.

If anything, I might swap out College Dropout for the Marshall Mathers Lp.

[Gareth]

i like stankonia
for me its: aquemini, atliens, stankonia, southernplaya, speakerboxxx...
humble mumble is prob one of my fave outkast songs
and i love this song which isnt an outkast song but features big boi and andre anyway (intl players anthem): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGU_v_GAdvg

[mickill]

3 Stacks' verse on Int'l Player's Anthem and the one from this (http://www.hiphopgalaxy.com/Outkast-Da-Art-Of-Storytellin-Pt-4-hip-hop-6014.html) are probably his best verses ever.

[checkyourprez]

Those are Jay's two strongest albums, in my opinion (Reasonable Doubt's solid, but a lot of those samples were use so many times before). Blueprint for obvious reasons, and Black Album for the monsters on it (99 Problems, PSA, Lucifer, What More Can I Say, etc). They're just two epic albums. I don't think any one Doom album can hold a candle to them.

If anything, I might swap out College Dropout for the Marshall Mathers Lp.

id def have hhnf in my top 5.

prob Vaudeville Villain and deltron 3030.

after that id have to think some. but i doubt any jay would be in there.

[RobMoney$]

the clipse - hell hath no fury.

mf doom - vaudeville villain

what are your opinions on those albums?

Personally, I think they suck.
I have no idea how anyone can listen to an entire album of Doom.
I mean I respect the dude's poetic ability, but it's just not music to me.

And I gave clipse a chance based solely on Mike's gushing over them back when that album dropped. I just didn't get it. I mean they're no Puffy or Lil' Wayne crap, but if you've heard one crack rhyme, you've heard them all.
It's the same reason why Wu-Tang is no longer relevant.
How many times are they going to try to make 36 chambers, OB4CL, or Ironman over again?

[checkyourprez]

Personally, I think they suck.
I have no idea how anyone can listen to an entire album of Doom.
I mean I respect the dude's poetic ability, but it's just not music to me.

And I gave clipse a chance based solely on Mike's gushing over them back when that album dropped. I just didn't get it. I mean they're no Puffy or Lil' Wayne crap, but if you've heard one crack rhyme, you've heard them all.
It's the same reason why Wu-Tang is no longer relevant.
How many times are they going to try to make 36 chambers, OB4CL, or Ironman over again?

and there we have it. you just don't get it. simple as that rob, your getting old dude.

[RobMoney$]

never denied that I'm getting old.
But that still doesn't change the fact that hip hop is dead. :D

[Kid Presentable]

Saying "hip hop is dead" is alive and well.

[Drederick Tatum]

hating on dunks and hip hop. what's next, chicken and watermelon?

[cj hood]

i don't own one Outkast cd even though mike d endorsed them before they hit it big....

[checkyourprez]

i don't own one Outkast cd even though mike d endorsed them before they hit it big....

your loss...

[RobMoney$]

Yeah, it's not that I hate Outkast.
I think they are one of the more talented hip hop acts to come out in years.
They do make actual music.
You know, melody and harmony and all that,...not just bragadocious rhyming over a drum loop.

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Outkast's "Hey Ya" done acousticallyby Matt Weddle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c745E7T_Wvg).
It's a great song. It's just very juvinille IMO, done in it's original hip hop style because Hip Hop is dead.
A completely different song when performed in a different, more mature "vehicle", so to speak.

[RobMoney$]

hating on dunks and hip hop. what's next, chicken and watermelon?



I hate on shit.
It's what I do on here.

Yes, I know I'm angry and I'm fine with that.

[lolkat]

rap music? more like crap music

[checkyourprez]

rap music? more like crap music



HILARIOUS!



AWESOME!

[checkyourprez]

Yeah, it's not that I hate Outkast.
I think they are one of the more talented hip hop acts to come out in years.
They do make actual music.
You know, melody and harmony and all that,...not just bragadocious rhyming over a drum loop.

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Outkast's "Hey Ya" done acousticallyby Matt Weddle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c745E7T_Wvg).
It's a great song. It's just very juvinille IMO, done in it's original hip hop style because Hip Hop is dead.
A completely different song when performed in a different, more mature "vehicle", so to speak.

i'm guessing you haven't heard the special herbs series. basically 9 ( i believe) doom albums of just his instrumentals. that guy is crazy talented on the boards, and i def just listen to his beats as music.

[RobMoney$]

Yeah, I have them all.
Unlistenable.
The sound quality sounds like someone recorded it in their jail cell in 1981.

[cj hood]

cj hood w/dj zap (https://download.yousendit.com/Z01QK0dpeFVEbUozZUE9PQ)

[pshabi]

Personally, I think they suck.
I have no idea how anyone can listen to an entire album of Doom.
I mean I respect the dude's poetic ability, but it's just not music to me.

And I gave clipse a chance based solely on Mike's gushing over them back when that album dropped. I just didn't get it. I mean they're no Puffy or Lil' Wayne crap, but if you've heard one crack rhyme, you've heard them all.
It's the same reason why Wu-Tang is no longer relevant.
How many times are they going to try to make 36 chambers, OB4CL, or Ironman over again?

DOOM is one of the illest ever. IMO, if you can't appreciate Madvillainy as an album, then I don't know what to tell you. HHNF is great because the flows are solid but the beats are just THAT NICE. The beats is what's missing from the new joint from them.

[pshabi]

Yeah, it's not that I hate Outkast.
I think they are one of the more talented hip hop acts to come out in years.
They do make actual music.
You know, melody and harmony and all that,...not just bragadocious rhyming over a drum loop.

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Outkast's "Hey Ya" done acousticallyby Matt Weddle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c745E7T_Wvg).
It's a great song. It's just very juvinille IMO, done in it's original hip hop style because Hip Hop is dead.
A completely different song when performed in a different, more mature "vehicle", so to speak.

WTF is "hip hop" about Hey Ya?"

[RobMoney$]

DOOM is one of the illest ever. IMO, if you can't appreciate Madvillainy as an album, then I don't know what to tell you. HHNF is great because the flows are solid but the beats are just THAT NICE. The beats is what's missing from the new joint from them.

See, I think we're narrowing things down here now...

"Beats" aren't music IMO.

[Randetica]

I hate on shit.
It's what I do on here.

Yes, I know I'm angry and I'm fine with that.

amen bro

[checkyourprez]

DOOM is one of the illest ever. IMO, if you can't appreciate Madvillainy as an album, then I don't know what to tell you. HHNF is great because the flows are solid but the beats are just THAT NICE. The beats is what's missing from the new joint from them.

i disagree. the beats slam on a good system. at first i wasn't feeling some of the tracks, but after marinating on the album for a bit they are good in their own way.

[checkyourprez]

See, I think we're narrowing things down here now...

"Beats" aren't music IMO.


what is music IYO?

[Kid Presentable]

Madvillainy is DOOMs best album. Madlib shit is bonkers. I dusted the album off again recently, listening to it at work a lot.

[Planetary]

Yeah, I have them all.
Unlistenable.
The sound quality sounds like someone recorded it in their jail cell in 1981.

Didn't you get through, say, 4 and think "Hmm, these have all been unlistenable so far. I don't think i'll download/buy any more..."

[Lex Diamonds]

Hip-hop didn't die, it just faked it's own death. Once ringtone, auto-tune, electro-rap bullshit has played itself out, the real rappers will rise up and take the genre back for the underground. Until then let these kids pump money into a dying industry and listen to something else, that's what I'm doing. I haven't been checking for hip-hop for nearly a year now.

[RobMoney$]

Didn't you get through, say, 4 and think "Hmm, these have all been unlistenable so far. I don't think i'll download/buy any more..."


1. They're packaged together. Vol. 1&2, 3&4, 5&6, 7&8, 9&0...but since you're soo fucking smart, I'm sure you knew that.

2. I wouldn't buy an album of beats someone already sold to the public on his original albums. I ain't that fucking dumb. I turned on the torrent.

3. I have yet to make it more than 4 "beats" into one of these albums without turning it off. I actually gave one of them another try today.

[yeahwho]

Hip-hop didn't die, it just faked it's own death. Once ringtone, auto-tune, electro-rap bullshit has played itself out, the real rappers will rise up and take the genre back for the underground. Until then let these kids pump money into a dying industry and listen to something else, that's what I'm doing. I haven't been checking for hip-hop for nearly a year now.

I generally agree with this, I have been listening to current Hip Hop music and the majority of it isn't relevant, but there still is some incredible Hip Hop being made and played today, just not as much as the the 80's and 90's.

Hip Hop is the only thing that keeps me awake on the road when I'm driving up and down I-5 after 12-13 hour workdays. That and mash-ups. Regular rock and roll lulls me onto the shoulder and jersey barrier.

[Documad]

I listen to really bad 70s pop music when I'm driving and have trouble staying awake. Bad . . . Bad. Blood . . . Blood.

[yeahwho]

I listen to really bad 70s pop music when I'm driving and have trouble staying awake. Bad . . . Bad. Blood . . . Blood.

If it's Keith Moon and Pete Townsend ala Who's Next at full blast (is there really any other way?) between hitting the overhead and tapping the gas pedal I can stay between the white lines....

Something about Hip Hop and a badass story I focus real good on the highway. I'm turning into the Tom Cruise character in Tropic Thunder.

[rirv]

http://vimeo.com/8242529

[mate_spawn_die]

Tell you what, let's make it interesting.
You give me 10 groups I can't use.
Take the Beatles, Stones, Doors, Floyd, Zep, and anyone else you like.

And I'll still be able to give you 10 more bands after that that had what most people will consider to be 5 or more consecutive great, classic albums, and limited to the late 60's thru the 70's.

i would just like to mention kraftwerk

that is all

[The Notorious LOL]

Personally, I think they suck.
I have no idea how anyone caWayne crap, but if you've heard one crack rhyme, you've heard them all.
It's the same reason why Wu-Tang is no longer relevant.
How many times are they going to try to make 36 chambers, OB4CL, or Ironman over again?

...this coming from the guy who constantly sings the praises of a band that hasnt made a good album since "Some Girls"

[RobMoney$]

Not only do you know nothing about the Stones, you've clearly shown yourself to know nothing about music, PERIOD, for even trying to compare the Stones to some rhyming idiots with a drum machine or a copy of acidpro.
The Stones are today's last link in the provenance of Rock & Roll to it's roots.

I can admit my band's best days are behind them,
it's time for you to admit that the entire genre of hip hop's best days are clearly behind it.

BTW, "Tattoo You" was the last great album the Stones ever made, but at least the Stones continue to sell-out massive world-wide stadium tours. Wu-Tang can't sell out a 3000 seat hall tour of 5 cities.

[Lex Diamonds]

The Stones are good but Wu Tang is for the children.

[checkyourprez]

Not only do you know nothing about the Stones, you've clearly shown yourself to know nothing about music, PERIOD, for even trying to compare the Stones to some rhyming idiots with a drum machine or a copy of acidpro.
The Stones are today's last link in the provenance of Rock & Roll to it's roots.

I can admit my band's best days are behind them,
it's time for you to admit that the entire genre of hip hop's best days are clearly behind it.

BTW, "Tattoo You" was the last great album the Stones ever made, but at least the Stones continue to sell-out massive world-wide stadium tours. Wu-Tang can't sell out a 3000 seat hall tour of 5 cities.

36 chambers > the stones.

[yeahwho]

The thing I try and avoid when purchasing music, concert tickets and just kicking back here on the internet is that the music I listen to doesn't become some sort of popularity contest.

The giant crowds at some of these "Classic Rock" shows can be really fucking annoying. After all the hassle of parking, queuing up and slogging past the merchandise booths just to find you're situated between Ma & Pa fucknuts somewhere in the rafters where the acoustics are like Pee Wee Herman in the shower...

anyway you get the picture... sometimes awesomeness in music is very small and relatively unknown. like the time I saw House of Love in a little Ballard bar with about 25 people.

[RobMoney$]

The giant crowds at some of these "Classic Rock" shows can be really fucking annoying. After all the hassle of parking, queuing up and slogging past the merchandise booths just to find you're situated between Ma & Pa fucknuts somewhere in the rafters where the acoustics are like Pee Wee Herman in the shower...



Whose concert are you possibly talking about?
Weren't we just posting about how incredible Springsteen's concert was?

[yeahwho]

Whose concert are you possibly talking about?
Weren't we just posting about how incredible Springsteen's concert was?

San Jose in the Pit, NYC 15th row and Seattle at the rail. Shows were in 16,000 + arenas and I was right up front. I would trade away backstage passes the last 20 years of E Street Band shows for one of the 1975 Bottomline (http://www.brucebase.org.uk/livebl1975.jpg) NYC or '78 Roxy Theater (http://www.brucebase.org.uk/roxy75.jpg)Los Angeles shows. It's great going to see a legend but to actually see one burst out onto the scene, fuck that has got to be a rush.

So yeah I've seen the Stones, Petty, Springsteen, Paul McCartney and a host of mainstream "Classical Rock" acts. The Springsteen shows were guaranteed great seats, otherwise I wouldn't have even considered crossing the river over to the Jersey swamps. I love NYC. Not kidding. The same with San Jose where I have relatives and one of them happened to be working the Shark Tank.

Girl Talk rocked the house just as hard with his turntable last year though, in a different light. Just like Phoenix playing the small Showbox theater here in Seattle next month, I'm anticipating that show more than any of the classic acts I've seen. Because I've seen and heard the live performances, they kick ass. Can't wait.

[roosta]

i kind of fell out of what was new/going on with hip-hop this year, but then I was reading the blogs and the lists and all, and there's alot of great songs on this list.
(http://passionweiss.com/2009/12/16/the-50-best-hip-hop-songs-of-2009-50-26/)
because of it, i'm going to keep my eye on whats going on a bit closer in 2010, some great stuff being done

[checkyourprez]

^theres some dope songs on that list. thanks for that.

i had heard the no.4 song on the radio a couple weeks ago and forgot about it, that shit is hot. southern rap that is a dumbed down for sure, but still dope.

[Gareth]

re: #6 - new boyz
i saw some kids jerkin in new zealand the other day
just on street in the middle of the city
well, at least i think they were jerkin
and they looked/dressed the part
i was stoked

[Gareth]

i had heard the no.4 song on the radio a couple weeks ago and forgot about it, that shit is hot. southern rap that is a dumbed down for sure, but still dope.

yeh that song is tuff

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Ha! The reason y'all don't like hip hop is because that shit was not made for you. Hip hop wasn't made for a bunch of wanna-be hipster whyte people. As soon as you people (i.e. people who only like hip hop because of the Beastie Boys and 311) became the major audience for hip hop, hip hop started to suck. That's what mainstream (eurocentric) culture does to culturally valid art forms, it sucks the soul out of them and throws them away. The image doesn't serve you anymore in 2010 so you have no use for it. Big fucking suprise there! Time to find another minority art form to rape!

Did someone actually label Stevie Wonder rock? That's fucking SOUL music! That's the music all of your heros ripped of the first fucking time dood.

Ya'll don't "get it" now, and you never "got it" in the past. Personally, I'm glad most of you hate hip hop again (even though you still want to be down and speak the slang, steal the rythms, and rape the culture in any way you see fit) because hip hop is not FOR YOU and it was never for you. Maybe when you people go back to listening to Counting Crows and Live then hip hop will actually get good again.

And y'all are on the Beastie Boys site? ALL of their music is hip hop. Hip hop and rap aren't synonyms. You think MCA takes off his hip hop hat and puts on his punk rock hat when he picks up an instrument? Shit doesn't work like that. Hip hop is more than just music.

Yeah, anyway, the reason "hip hop" is mainstream now is the same reason most of it sucks now. That reason is that people like those of you talking shit in this thread started buying hip hop albums and record companies started catering to your stupid asses. OF COURSE IT SUCKS NOW BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU SUCK!

SO PLEASE STOP BUYING AND LISTENING TO HIP HOP! I think theres a Springstein concert going on right now! LOL

[Planetary]

Ha! The reason y'all don't like hip hop is because that shit was not made for you. Hip hop wasn't made for a bunch of wanna-be hipster whyte people. As soon as you people (i.e. people who only like hip hop because of the Beastie Boys and 311) became the major audience for hip hop, hip hop started to suck. That's what mainstream (eurocentric) culture does to culturally valid art forms, it sucks the soul out of them and throws them away. The image doesn't serve you anymore in 2010 so you have no use for it. Big fucking suprise there! Time to find another minority art form to rape!

Did someone actually label Stevie Wonder rock? That's fucking SOUL music! That's the music all of your heros ripped of the first fucking time dood.

Ya'll don't "get it" now, and you never "got it" in the past. Personally, I'm glad most of you hate hip hop again (even though you still want to be down and speak the slang, steal the rythms, and rape the culture in any way you see fit) because hip hop is not FOR YOU and it was never for you. Maybe when you people go back to listening to Counting Crows and Live then hip hop will actually get good again.

And y'all are on the Beastie Boys site? ALL of their music is hip hop. Hip hop and rap aren't synonyms. You think MCA takes off his hip hop hat and puts on his punk rock hat when he picks up an instrument? Shit doesn't work like that. Hip hop is more than just music.

Yeah, anyway, the reason "hip hop" is mainstream now is the same reason most of it sucks now. That reason is that people like those of you talking shit in this thread started buying hip hop albums and record companies started catering to your stupid asses. OF COURSE IT SUCKS NOW BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU SUCK!

SO PLEASE STOP BUYING AND LISTENING TO HIP HOP! I think theres a Springstein concert going on right now! LOL

im pretty sure this is the most stupid thing anyone has ever said

[Lex Diamonds]

Ha! The reason y'all don't like hip hop is because that shit was not made for you. Hip hop wasn't made for a bunch of wanna-be hipster whyte people. As soon as you people (i.e. people who only like hip hop because of the Beastie Boys and 311) became the major audience for hip hop, hip hop started to suck. That's what mainstream (eurocentric) culture does to culturally valid art forms, it sucks the soul out of them and throws them away. The image doesn't serve you anymore in 2010 so you have no use for it. Big fucking suprise there! Time to find another minority art form to rape!

Did someone actually label Stevie Wonder rock? That's fucking SOUL music! That's the music all of your heros ripped of the first fucking time dood.

Ya'll don't "get it" now, and you never "got it" in the past. Personally, I'm glad most of you hate hip hop again (even though you still want to be down and speak the slang, steal the rythms, and rape the culture in any way you see fit) because hip hop is not FOR YOU and it was never for you. Maybe when you people go back to listening to Counting Crows and Live then hip hop will actually get good again.

And y'all are on the Beastie Boys site? ALL of their music is hip hop. Hip hop and rap aren't synonyms. You think MCA takes off his hip hop hat and puts on his punk rock hat when he picks up an instrument? Shit doesn't work like that. Hip hop is more than just music.

Yeah, anyway, the reason "hip hop" is mainstream now is the same reason most of it sucks now. That reason is that people like those of you talking shit in this thread started buying hip hop albums and record companies started catering to your stupid asses. OF COURSE IT SUCKS NOW BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU SUCK!

SO PLEASE STOP BUYING AND LISTENING TO HIP HOP! I think theres a Springstein concert going on right now! LOL
Hip-hop wasn't damaged by the people buying it. People buy good music too, you know. It was damaged by the people making it who decided to dumb down and dilute their music, which in turn paved the way for already dumbed down, diluted artists to flood the genre. The demise of hip-hop (at least in commercial terms) is thanks to people like Puffy and Dre who had to make the big decision between money and integrity and went for the bucks.

Please don't act like you know what you're talking about because that post was the biggest load of bullshit I've ever read. You obviously think you know more about what hip-hop is than the people in this thread because you're still wearing polyester tracksuits and listening to Kool G Rap. Sorry old timer but it don't work like that and hip-hop ISN'T about fitting a genre classification. Try listening to some more hip-hop before you try speaking for/about it.

[RobMoney$]

Ha! The reason y'all don't like hip hop is because that shit was not made for you. Hip hop wasn't made for a bunch of wanna-be hipster whyte people. As soon as you people (i.e. people who only like hip hop because of the Beastie Boys and 311) became the major audience for hip hop, hip hop started to suck. That's what mainstream (eurocentric) culture does to culturally valid art forms, it sucks the soul out of them and throws them away. The image doesn't serve you anymore in 2010 so you have no use for it. Big fucking suprise there! Time to find another minority art form to rape!

Did someone actually label Stevie Wonder rock? That's fucking SOUL music! That's the music all of your heros ripped of the first fucking time dood.

Ya'll don't "get it" now, and you never "got it" in the past. Personally, I'm glad most of you hate hip hop again (even though you still want to be down and speak the slang, steal the rythms, and rape the culture in any way you see fit) because hip hop is not FOR YOU and it was never for you. Maybe when you people go back to listening to Counting Crows and Live then hip hop will actually get good again.

And y'all are on the Beastie Boys site? ALL of their music is hip hop. Hip hop and rap aren't synonyms. You think MCA takes off his hip hop hat and puts on his punk rock hat when he picks up an instrument? Shit doesn't work like that. Hip hop is more than just music.

Yeah, anyway, the reason "hip hop" is mainstream now is the same reason most of it sucks now. That reason is that people like those of you talking shit in this thread started buying hip hop albums and record companies started catering to your stupid asses. OF COURSE IT SUCKS NOW BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU SUCK!

SO PLEASE STOP BUYING AND LISTENING TO HIP HOP! I think theres a Springstein concert going on right now! LOL


Stupid post by someone with a stupid user name. You should change your screename to Squared Stupid.

Take your shit back to Beastie General with the rest of the wannabe's and let the grown folk discuss music.

[TurdBerglar]

somebody hates white people

[Kid Presentable]

people like Puffy and Dre who had to make the big decision between money and integrity and went for the bucks.


I know you tend to think that people are trying to argue with you whenever they quote you, so I'd like to be clear that this particular quote has sparked a thought in my head, and nothing else. It's not an argument, more a tangent inspired by this comment.

Bad music has never existed at the expense of good music, and quality will always exist with a crummy commercial counterpoint. Often to its benefit; when Hammer blew up, you could still hear shit like NWA, De La, Tribe, Beastie Boys, The early DITC crew shit, JBs. And hip-hop was all the better for it.

When Dre came up on his own he really just made the mainstream dope, the Chronic was a fucking movement itself if you were there, it sparked so much shit. Him and Cube pretty much competed for the king of the West Coast and it was real good for fans of the genre, both were chugging out quality work. And all the shit going on at the time, like Black Moon, Digable Planets, Gangstarr, Souls of Mischief. None of that was impeded by mainstream hip-hop. Nas dropped one of the most incredible rap albums ever at that stage, regardless of what commercial hip-hop was doing.

Puffy's rise wasn't at the expense of Wu Tang, BCC, shit Biggie even came out of Puff's camp and was dope, Redman raped the 90s, Co Flow started the whole Rawkus movement in amongst that 'pop rap' environment, which opened the gates to a lot of cool shit. Then we eventually got Eminem coming along which changed the mainstream again, made it work a bit harder. And sure it gravitated back to its natural inert state of shit, but it wasn't like mainstream, money making hip-hop has ever really been a threat to quality music.

I don't think hip-hop is really for anyone other than those who want to listen to it. And people make the choice as to how they see it; dying, dead or otherwise. For me it's exactly as it has always been. I check for some of the commercial bullshit (which inarguably is a lot better than some of the commercial bullshit of yesteryear), I check for the quality, and I enjoy being put onto the best of either world by the other heads who enjoy the music as I do. I guess I'm a community sort of person.

I can only really speak on my experiences with it from about 1990, but I've seen commercial hip-hop flourish non-stop since I've been into the music, and it's never had any impact on the overall quality of the genre. Not to me, anyway. The 'real' shit has always swum in its own lane alongside and ahead of what's in the mainstream. People complain about commercial rap ruining hip-hop, and they have always done so. And we're still here, having the same discussion. I don't think it's ever going to change.

[Lex Diamonds]

I was using Puff and Dre to illustrate my point that those who were once pioneers in bringing quality to the mainstream ended up leading it downhill in search of the money. I was trying to say that their changes of direction at the turn of the millenium changed (commercial) hip-hop for the worse.

So yeah, I kind of agree with you and your little "quote" comment was faggoty.

[Kid Presentable]

Ha! The reason y'all don't like hip hop is because that shit was not made for you. Hip hop wasn't made for a bunch of wanna-be hipster whyte people. As soon as you people (i.e. people who only like hip hop because of the Beastie Boys and 311) became the major audience for hip hop, hip hop started to suck. That's what mainstream (eurocentric) culture does to culturally valid art forms, it sucks the soul out of them and throws them away. The image doesn't serve you anymore in 2010 so you have no use for it. Big fucking suprise there! Time to find another minority art form to rape!

Did someone actually label Stevie Wonder rock? That's fucking SOUL music! That's the music all of your heros ripped of the first fucking time dood.

Ya'll don't "get it" now, and you never "got it" in the past. Personally, I'm glad most of you hate hip hop again (even though you still want to be down and speak the slang, steal the rythms, and rape the culture in any way you see fit) because hip hop is not FOR YOU and it was never for you. Maybe when you people go back to listening to Counting Crows and Live then hip hop will actually get good again.

And y'all are on the Beastie Boys site? ALL of their music is hip hop. Hip hop and rap aren't synonyms. You think MCA takes off his hip hop hat and puts on his punk rock hat when he picks up an instrument? Shit doesn't work like that. Hip hop is more than just music.

Yeah, anyway, the reason "hip hop" is mainstream now is the same reason most of it sucks now. That reason is that people like those of you talking shit in this thread started buying hip hop albums and record companies started catering to your stupid asses. OF COURSE IT SUCKS NOW BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU SUCK!

SO PLEASE STOP BUYING AND LISTENING TO HIP HOP! I think theres a Springstein concert going on right now! LOL

This is what happens when you spend all of your time in Beastie General acting like a know-it-all, without ever really understanding what the community on this board is actually like. If you think the forums general perspective on hip-hop is based on 311, then you are clearly a fool.

The Beasties demonstrate that hip-hop is a diverse field, and that hip-hop artists can nod to a diverse range of styles, and their forum shows that hip-hop fans can appreciate a diverse range of genres. So yes, you get discussions on Springsteen and Clipse on the same page. Wouldn't have it any other way. Fucking twat.

[Kid Presentable]

I was using Puff and Dre to illustrate my point that those who were once pioneers in bringing quality to the mainstream ended up leading it downhill in search of the money. I was trying to say that their changes of direction at the turn of the millenium changed (commercial) hip-hop for the worse.

So yeah, I kind of agree with you and your little "quote" comment was faggoty.

Aw.

If they impacted mainstream hip-hop in a negative way - and I don't think Dre had anything but a positive impact on the mainstream (to this day) while Puff just kind of disappeared musically at the turn of the millenium - it is really of little consequence. As a consumer, you have a choice. You don't like it, hit fast forward. Doesn't stop good music being made, and being made available.

There's still good commercial hip-hop out there, and I don't think either of us have the raw data to say if there's more or less of it as a result of Dre and Puffs actions (whatever they may be) at the turn of the century.

[RobMoney$]

i kind of fell out of what was new/going on with hip-hop this year, but then I was reading the blogs and the lists and all, and there's alot of great songs on this list. (http://passionweiss.com/2009/12/16/the-50-best-hip-hop-songs-of-2009-50-26/)


I just got around to checking out this link and all I have to say is LOL.
#14 is an SNL skit, Yo.

Need I say more?

[Kid Presentable]

Rock and Roll never had a gimmick song?

[Lex Diamonds]

I'mma let you finish, but I'm just saying when you get the amount of power that Dre and Puffy had at the turn of the century over a particular musical genre, you start to define it (whether intentionally or not) to a certain degree. Puff was a joke, we've all seen the Mo Money Mo Problems video. And instead of representing and re-inventing the West Coast to take the genre forward, Dre flogged the Eminem horse until it was dead. He then helped to bring up Fiddy and Game which in turn transformed commercial hip-hop into a playground for studio gangstas.

Those who were bringing something fresh 5 or so years back (Kanye, Wayne, Dizzee) have inevitably become watered down in the pursuit of money; it's the same old story over and over. Like you said not much has changed when you look at the genre as a whole but the scales have tipped, and in mainstream terms I'm finding it virtually unlistenable at the moment.

[RobMoney$]

Rock and Roll never had a gimmick song?

That made it to #14 on an annual list of top songs?

Kind of makes it hard to take todays hip hop legitimately, no?

[Kid Presentable]

I'mma let you finish, but I'm just saying when you get the amount of power that Dre and Puffy had at the turn of the century over a particular musical genre, you start to define it (whether intentionally or not) to a certain degree. Puff was a joke, we've all seen the Mo Money Mo Problems video. And instead of representing and re-inventing the West Coast to take the genre forward, Dre flogged the Eminem horse until it was dead. He then helped to bring up Fiddy and Game which in turn transformed commercial hip-hop into a playground for studio gangstas.

Those who were bringing something fresh 5 or so years back (Kanye, Wayne, Dizzee) have inevitably become watered down in the pursuit of money; it's the same old story over and over. Like you said not much has changed when you look at the genre as a whole but the scales have tipped, and in mainstream terms I'm finding it virtually unlistenable at the moment.

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Mo Money Mo Problems, I love that shit. Doesn't detract from me enjoying some Smif n Wessun from those days either, just swims along in its own lane, you know?

I think fans move the genre, shifting tastes and such, I never expected Dre to exert force over the genre. How much influence could he have if he just decided to make bullshit?

50 and Game's first albums were solid, good shit. Studio gangsterisms or not. Paul Revere was studio gangsterism, it's not a new concept, I can deal with it. I even like LAX, so Game is embarassing as a person but his music's okay, without Dre's substantial involvement. Eminem flirted with utter irrelevance, but Relapse was a good step for both he and Dre.

I agree maybe the guys who were fresh a little while ago are becoming sorta stale, but they still have their moments. And they bring about shit like Cudi and Wale to an extent, so it's all good. Jay Electronica is going to be interesting, no doubt.

I know it looks like a money thing, and I've often thought so myself. But as time goes on, I don't know that anybody really changes in the pursuit of money, in fact I don't know that anybody does anything in rap particularly intentionally, since the power lies with the audiences. How else could one explain a rapper who on paper has such an inconsistent catalogue as Jay-Z pretty unanimously being regarded as the best rapper doing it?

I don't really know, just talking shit I guess. I see your point, I just never expect artists to be the ones influencing shit anymore.

[Kid Presentable]

That made it to #14 on an annual list of top songs?

Kind of makes it hard to take todays hip hop legitimately, no?

It's one person's list of 50 songs from one year. Do I then blame the Stones for Dennis Leary's 'Asshole'?

[RobMoney$]

Puff was a joke, we've all seen the Mo Money Mo Problems video.


The way Puffy urinated all over that song is just embarressing.
I mean, could you be any more desperate to cram yourself into Biggie's spot?

[RobMoney$]

It's one person's list of 50 songs from one year. Do I then blame the Stones for Dennis Leary's 'Asshole'?


If "asshole" was on a top 50 list that I was using to display some "great songs" from current rock bands, like Roosta did with hip hop, then you'd have a reason to call Rock's legitimacy into question.

[Lex Diamonds]

I discovered a hip-hop act I'm digging. I took out an album from the library on a whim from an artist called Kid Cudi, his debut album "Man on the Moon: The End of Day." I am digging it.

So I've got some faith in the genre today.

http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:gpfyxzlaldje
LOL

And they say the BBMB isn't hip-hop.

[Kid Presentable]

If "asshole" was on a top 50 list that I was using to display some "great songs" from current rock bands, like Roosta did with hip hop, then you'd have a reason to call Rock's legitimacy into question.

You know it was a big song. One questionable inclusion a conclusive case does not make. I think the real question is: how much bias can a person who doesn't like hip-hop have in determining its relevancy/quality?

[Lex Diamonds]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Mo Money Mo Problems, I love that shit. Doesn't detract from me enjoying some Smif n Wessun from those days either, just swims along in its own lane, you know?

I think fans move the genre, shifting tastes and such, I never expected Dre to exert force over the genre. How much influence could he have if he just decided to make bullshit?

50 and Game's first albums were solid, good shit. Studio gangsterisms or not. Paul Revere was studio gangsterism, it's not a new concept, I can deal with it. I even like LAX, so Game is embarassing as a person but his music's okay, without Dre's substantial involvement. Eminem flirted with utter irrelevance, but Relapse was a good step for both he and Dre.

I agree maybe the guys who were fresh a little while ago are becoming sorta stale, but they still have their moments. And they bring about shit like Cudi and Wale to an extent, so it's all good. Jay Electronica is going to be interesting, no doubt.

I know it looks like a money thing, and I've often thought so myself. But as time goes on, I don't know that anybody really changes in the pursuit of money, in fact I don't know that anybody does anything in rap particularly intentionally, since the power lies with the audiences. How else could one explain a rapper who on paper has such an inconsistent catalogue as Jay-Z pretty unanimously being regarded as the best rapper doing it?

I don't really know, just talking shit I guess. I see your point, I just never expect artists to be the ones influencing shit anymore.
Good points. I think we're looking at different sides of the same coin here. We both agree that the best shit is/has always been UG while the people that get big often have short shelf-lives. I see where you're coming from with the audience/artist power balance thing but I still maintain that the most famous "icons" in a genre define it.

Ask someone today what hip-hop is and they will probably just list names like Lil Wayne, 50 Cent, Snoop Dogg. Ask them about the lyrical content and they will most likely bring up the old "guns, cash, hoes" argument. This actually means nothing and these people are douchebags but like I said it's telling that people define the genre by its ubiquities. I'm not saying Dre had to be Moses or some shit but at one point he had the talent and the connections, not to mention the massive influence (possibly the biggest of anyone ever in hip-hop), he could have done more with it. It would have been nice anyway.

[checkyourprez]

I just got around to checking out this link and all I have to say is LOL.
#14 is an SNL skit, Yo.

Need I say more?


dude that list is FULL of heat rocks. that is honestly the best list i have seen so far. spans all kinds of sub genres within rap with nothing but banging results. so theres one joke song on there, that is a decent track in its own way.

pitchfork, spin, rolling stones lists always include a lot of bullshit.

i think the fact that you can't relate to the hip hop on that list just shows that you grew out of liking hip hop. you still like what you like, but you didnt grow with how the genre grew.

but just because you dont dig it doesnt mean that a good majority of that list isnt fire.

[RobMoney$]

Just because I've outgrown hip hop doesn't mean I can't relate to it.
I can relate to watching cartoons, but that doesn't mean I sit around my house watching them all Saturday morning like I did when I was a kid.

Hip Hop is the cartoon of music.

[TurdBerglar]

hahaha


what's the porn of music?

[Kid Presentable]

Techno

[Randetica]

too much talk about nothing

[saz]

hahaha


what's the porn of music?

Techno

no, it's this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3P7nl6J56s)

[RobMoney$]

hahaha


what's the porn of music?

Christina Aguleria, Jessica Simpson, & Brittany sort of crap?

[Bob]

no, it's this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3P7nl6J56s)

or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2nmgcVbfKE) (this video may not be suitable for minors)

[TurdBerglar]

the next sims game is gonna be dope

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Yo yo Rob Money yo. Where'd you get that name from yo? Oh, hip hop? Oh I guess hip hop sucks unless you're trying to take the parts that serve you and diss the rest? At least the Beatles gave respect due to the art they were borrowing from. But you're on the B-Boys website trying to diss hip hop? Ha. You're a walking hypocrisy. Why don't I take my ass to "Beastie General"? Like you're the music guru cause you actually pay attention to "chart toppers." What music mags you subscribe to brah? Reading that shit makes you a music expert you know. I should get my ass to Beastie General where the insiders don't hang in fruitful cyber community? What, you got "other music" and "beastie shure shots" on lock down? This is your cyber turf? Is that where you and your cyber crew hang? This is where the insiders with the well thought out screen names go? I can't come in here with my joke screen name? You think I got "Sir Skratchlot" medallions and shit? Yeah, I'm invested in my b-boy message board screen name! Sorry, its a wack joke, just like Bruce Springsteen's music, just like the Rolling Stones have been for the last 20 years.

It's funny how when your stupid non-sense is met with equal and opposite non-sense y'all get hurt. I'll tell you what, if y'all really want to seriously debate and actually try to form a reasonable argument instead of spouting stupid generalized non-sense and trying to push buttons we can do that. But you don't want to do that.

[TurdBerglar]

i want a turdberglar medallion

[YoungRemy]

subjective music thread is subjective...

Merry Christmas!

[Guy Incognito]

i stayed out of this thread for a number of reasons which i wont go into. ITs a great read and there are some good points and some ridiculousness.
I only have one thing to say about this thread.

Nonsense is not hyphenated.

[Randetica]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf5cmd0-qCE

.

[Guy Incognito]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf5cmd0-qCE

.

i'm not having a go here randall but what was your point in posting that?

was it:


a)this is a really good track and represents all that is good about hip hop today.
b)this is a track by a guy who used to be great and is now producing mediocre stuff and represents all that is wrong with hip hop today.
c)I am your hero

[Guy Incognito]

oh forgot to say that this thread is worth it for that list that roosta posted. i know next to fuck all about current hip hop and there were some good tracks on those links that i had never heard before(y)

[yeahwho]

Sir SkratchaLot is fucking cool.

[checkyourprez]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf5cmd0-qCE

.

good track randy.