$6 Million of Stimulus went to Clinton's PR Firm

[valvano]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/71353-mark-penn-got-6-million-from-stimulus


and many on here bitch and whine about defense spending....

Hope....Change......Same Ole Same Ole :rolleyes:

[kaiser soze]

I agree this is bullshit, I have very little support for stimulus being handed out like candy to kids.

But when $9 billion (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.audit/) goes missing in Iraq even you should be a bit concerned

Millions and billions are quite a difference- make no mistake it is all OUR money.

[valvano]

I agree this is bullshit, I have very little support for stimulus being handed out like candy to kids.

But when $9 billion (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.audit/) goes missing in Iraq even you should be a bit concerned

Millions and billions are quite a difference- make no mistake it is all OUR money.

you are correct, this is the tax payors money, not the govts. and what is more scary, the same people who criticize how fu'd the govt is, whether its abuses in defense spending or social spending or whatever, the same people want to turn over our health care system to that same govt to manage...

the govt has a proud history of mismanagement....

[saz]

that's because 45,000 americans die every year (http://www.harvardscience.harvard.edu/medicine-health/articles/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-lack-health-coverage) because they don't have health insurance, those who are covered through private health insurance can be denied their coverage and die (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwGLdYBm1bY), and public health insurance works very well and is extremely popular throughout the rest of the western world, as are the medicare and medicaid programs.

[Echewta]

The government is already in the health care business. Medicare and Medicade etc.
And for Christ sake, a government option isn't turning over the health care industrty to the government.

[valvano]

that's because 45,000 americans die every year (http://www.harvardscience.harvard.edu/medicine-health/articles/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-lack-health-coverage) because they don't have health insurance, those who are covered through private health insurance can be denied their coverage and die (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwGLdYBm1bY), and public health insurance works very well and is extremely popular throughout the rest of the western world, as are the medicare and medicaid programs.

how many people die every year because of smoking?
how many people die every year because of unsafe driving?
how many people die every year through drug use?
how many people die every year because they didnt buckle up?
and so on...

you cant force a gun to peoples head and make them buy insurance, just as you can force them to live a moral, clean, healthy, safe lifestyle. somebody is going to get screwed no matter what system is in place....why wreck the total system to fix it for such a small percentage of the population??

[valvano]

The government is already in the health care business. Medicare and Medicade etc.
And for Christ sake, a government option isn't turning over the health care industrty to the government.

and how efficient is medicare and medicaid ( i wont bust you on spelling it incorrectly as I am a poor typer as well). ??

[saz]

how many people die every year because of smoking?
how many people die every year because of unsafe driving?
how many people die every year through drug use?
how many people die every year because they didnt buckle up?
and so on...

you cant force a gun to peoples head and make them buy insurance, just as you can force them to live a moral, clean, healthy, safe lifestyle. somebody is going to get screwed no matter what system is in place....why wreck the total system to fix it for such a small percentage of the population??

introducing public health insurance to compete with private health insurace firms would not equate some form of armageddon. many european countries offer both public and private insurance and their skies aren't falling.

[valvano]

introducing public health insurance to compete with private health insurace firms would not equate some form of armageddon. many european countries offer both public and private insurance and their skies aren't falling.

its funny, most liberals want this public insurance to compete with private insurance, but the teachers unions which are heavy democrat fund raisers, wont allow charter schools to compete with failing public school systems...

[yeahwho]

you cant force a gun to peoples head and make them buy insurance, just as you can force them to live a moral, clean, healthy, safe lifestyle. somebody is going to get screwed no matter what system is in place....why wreck the total system to fix it for such a small percentage of the population??

You are out of your mind if you think increases in our taxes and insurance policies are because responsible healthy people who purchase insurance get better care.

We the people, the responsible healthy people are paying by gunpoint right now through taxes and insurance premiums for those who refuse to or cannot afford to purchase insurance.

This system is a fucking wreck.

[valvano]

You are out of your mind if you think increases in our taxes and insurance policies are because responsible healthy people who purchase insurance get better care.

We the people, the responsible healthy people are paying by gunpoint right now through taxes and insurance premiums for those who refuse to or cannot afford to purchase insurance.

This system is a fucking wreck.

i poised this question before. should people who own homes but who fail to purchase home owners insurance, if their homes should burn down, should insurance companies be required to sell them policies after the fact and retroactively cover that house fire??

should a drunk driver, who has lost his insurance coverage, go out one last time and have a wreck, have the ability to force an insurance company to provide him coverage retroactively to cover his wreck?

what's going to be the incentive to live a "smart" life knowing the govt will force some party to pay for your stupid decision....its just one more whittle away at personal responsibility...the creation of a nanny state

[saz]

so according to your logic, we shouldn't have police or fire departments.

[Bob]

so according to your logic, we shouldn't have police or fire departments.

don't be ridiculous. we should only have them for people responsible enough to pay them in advance

[yeahwho]

i poised this question before. should people who own homes but who fail to purchase home owners insurance, if their homes should burn down, should insurance companies be required to sell them policies after the fact and retroactively cover that house fire??

should a drunk driver, who has lost his insurance coverage, go out one last time and have a wreck, have the ability to force an insurance company to provide him coverage retroactively to cover his wreck?

what's going to be the incentive to live a "smart" life knowing the govt will force some party to pay for your stupid decision....its just one more whittle away at personal responsibility...the creation of a nanny state

dude, you don't even understand the simplest chart on CO2 emissions and your lecturing me on nanny states?

[valvano]

so according to your logic, we shouldn't have police or fire departments.

the police and fire departments are there for emergencies, not to compensate you for your loss or lack of well being...

your arguement fails...

[valvano]

don't be ridiculous. we should only have them for people responsible enough to pay them in advance

actually, the threat of Obamacare is forcing doctors into just such services, concierge practices:

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/25/boutique-patients-pay-for-better-access-to-doctors/?feat=home_top5_shared

so once again, failed govt policies may be creating unintended results..

[saz]

the police and fire departments are there for emergencies, not to compensate you for your loss or lack of well being...

your arguement fails...

right, they're there when i need them. but so far i've never needed them in my life. but it's great knowing that they're there for me. just like my public health insurance. i don't have to worry about dying or suffering, or a family member suffering or dying because we can't afford private health insurance premiums, nor do we have to worry about being denied coverage, because we're guaranteed coverage.

[Bob]

the police and fire departments are there for emergencies, not to compensate you for your loss or lack of well being...

your arguement fails...

you think medical treatment is more equivalent to monetary compensation for loss than to emergency service? come the fuck on

[kaiser soze]

I love how vulvano hijacked his own thread