Rise in threats against members of Congress

[DroppinScience]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/09/authorities-report-rise-in-threats-against-members-of-congress/?fbid=tJbbgjyEefp

Federal law enforcement and Congressional authorities are reporting a large increase in threats against lawmakers, a law enforcement official tells CNN. The officials said the spike in threats began around the debate over health care reform.

Since October, 50 threats against members of Congress have been reported to the FBI, said the official, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity. In the previous year, less than 20 were reported to federal law enforcement authorities. When threats are received by lawmakers, the U.S. Capitol Police and in some cases, the FBI, investigate.

I wonder why?

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/health/News+blamed+inciting+violence/2782113/story.html

The arrest of a California man accused of making criminal threats against U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has triggered a heated debate about whether America's conservative media -- particularly Fox News -- is fomenting potential violence against high-profile Democrats.

The mother of Gregory Giusti, a man accused of making numerous threatening calls to Pelosi's home and office, said Thursday her son got "radical" ideas from watching Fox.

[EN[i]GMA]

I'm sure this has nothing at all to do with the Tea Party or radical right wing hate mongering from the likes of Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck.

NOTHING HERE BUT US BOPPING GRANDPARENTS.

[kaiser soze]

Do you blame em?

The rhetoric and comparisons made by the right wing talking heads makes the left look like monsters - but yet we have seen time and time again leading rightwingers having connections to mass murderers (Prescott Bush and the Nazis), selling out to evil regimes (Reagan and Iran Contra affair, Mccain and Myanmar regime), not to mention their long standing tradition of trying to keep control over religion, women, and minorities.

Did you know that Massey Energy Corp donated $1 million to the Teaparty? This is the same corporation raping the Appalachian mountains, endangering communities and their environment and also responsible for the deaths of 29 miners who were killed in WV recently - I guarantee many of the workers and their families align themselves with the Tea Party or similar philosophies in that area.

The Teaparty is only popular because of the controversy and hoopla surrounding it, without FOX News it wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

So maybe it's time to rename the Teaparty to what they really are -

The Tool Party.

[travesty]

You folks can point fingers and blame the right and blame Fox and blame Beck and blame Hannity and blame the teaparty for this if that makes you sleep at night. I know you all have an inate need to hang the blame for anything on the political right. As a conservative I accept that will always be the case.

However, all I can think to say is "what the fuck did you think was going to happen"? Ever think to blame Obama or Pelosi for inciting violence by blatantly thwarting the will of the American people? Of course not. When leaders do one-sided, authroritarian shit like they did with healthcare, people who believe they live in a "free" country get pissed off. And when a whole lot, I mean a WHOLE lot, of them get really pissed off then a few are going to do stupid shit in return. Did anyone NOT see this coming? Frankly I assumed it would be worse but I guess it's not over yet is it?

[Bob]

have we just sort of suddenly accepted that "we the people" didn't want the healthcare bill? i feel like that was debatable at some point because i think a lot of people actually did want it (that's probably why obama got the idea to try it...). but i guess if the most trusted news source in america says we didn't then who am i to argue

i kind of wanted it, at least back before it got compromised to the point where i'm not sure what it does anymore. some people probably even voted for the guy because of it. the whole thing even felt vaguely democratic at times. honestly i think i missed the vote where we all agreed that this was some kind of backroom stalinist powergrab or whatever the discourse is now

at any rate i certainly don't understand the logic of "you passed healthcare, you should expect a death threat or two"

is that what we do now? is that acceptable behavior?

[travesty]

The rhetoric and comparisons made by the right wing talking heads makes the left look like monsters - but yet we have seen time and time again leading rightwingers having connections to mass murderers (Prescott Bush and the Nazis), selling out to evil regimes (Reagan and Iran Contra affair, Mccain and Myanmar regime), not to mention their long standing tradition of trying to keep control over religion, women, and minorities.


I think you are part of the Tool Party. You're a sheep Kaiser. Like the left never had troublesome ties. Here's some troubling Left Wing Leaders' ties
Zbigniew Brzezinski- Pol Pot
Jimmy Carter and the Mujahadeen (including Osama Bin Laden)
Blanket Democrat Party Support for the KKK
Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W.Va) former Keagle in the KKK
Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL)- Organized crime ties

The list goes on, it happens on both sides, open your eyes. It's being a politican in general that seems to make people compromise their morals and ethics, not necessarily the party affiliation.

[travesty]

have we just sort of suddenly accepted that "we the people" didn't want the healthcare bill? i feel like that was debatable at some point because i think a lot of people actually did want it (that's probably why obama got the idea to try it...). but i guess if the most trusted news source in america says we didn't then who am i to argue

at any rate i certainly don't understand the logic of "you passed healthcare, you should expect a death threat or two"

is that what we do now? is that acceptable behavior?

Polls proved a majority of Americans opposed this bill but also,like you, a majority of Americans were for healthcare reform. I think the abhorent to both sides final product coupled with the manner in which it was passed pissed people off more than anything. No one likes a smug government making laws and spendiing our money with a "like it or not" attitude, especially on an issue as controversial as this. Threats of violence to elected officials is nothing new. It happend during Vietnam it happened during civil rights, it happened after Roe v. Wade, it happened during prohibition and on and on.

I never said it was logical or accepted behavior.
It's just not unexpected.

[Bob]

Polls proved a majority of Americans opposed this bill but also,like you, a majority of Americans were for healthcare reform.

that's what i mean basically, the polls (to the extent that any of them actually mean anything) were all over the place, so i feel like it's a little disingenuous for people to point to the ones they like and say definitively "THE DEMOCRATS DEFIED THE WILL OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE" when i'm really not sure how you're meant to objectively measure that on a thing like this.

I think the abhorent to both sides final product coupled with the manner in which it was passed pissed people off more than anything. No one likes a smug government making laws and spendiing our money with a "like it or not" attitude, especially on an issue as controversial as this.

no, i suppose not, but one of the things i couldn't stand was the way in which the fight over the bill played out. i mean look, i like to think i'm not an unreasonable person, i can understand that there are legitimate objections, and if the GOP and fox news and whoever had just said "this expands the power of the federal government in a way we're not comfortable with and increases the deficit at a time we can't afford to do it" and if the democrats and the huffington post and whoever had said "alright well, let's be civil and have a debate and vote it out" that would have been cool but instead it got all "COMMUNISM FASCISM DEATH PANEL HITLER STALIN DEATH PANEL DEATH PANEL KILL THE BILL BEFORE IT KILLS YOUR GRANDMA PARTY OF NO PARTY OF NO YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT NO" and i feel like the process got a little tainted because that sensationalistic bullshit raped its way into the public discourse when by all means it had no business being there

Threats of violence to elected officials is nothing new. It happend during Vietnam it happened during civil rights, it happened after Roe v. Wade, it happened during prohibition and on and on.

I never said it was logical or accepted behavior.
It's just not unexpected.

as long as we agree it sucks i'm content

[DroppinScience]

I didn't know that a mob mentality represents the "will of the people."

Anyways, let's say I take you at face value and say I believe you that the majority of people (according to polls) did not want health care reform. Wasn't a huge criticism by conservatives of the Clinton White House was that they followed the polls TOO closely and did not stick to their principles? Now Pelosi and Reid are sticking to their principles and not paying attention to polls (again this is a leap, but I'm giving you, travesty, the benefit of the doubt for this exercise), but they're still hopping mad? Conservatism is never consistent in their criticisms of Democrats in power, but this is making me scratch my head.

Opposition to health care will (and is) die down once people realize that their grandma won't be sentenced to die by a death panel. There was no Stalinist/Hitler takeover, there was no "Armageddon."

[DroppinScience]

You folks can point fingers and blame the right and blame Fox and blame Beck and blame Hannity and blame the teaparty for this if that makes you sleep at night. I know you all have an inate need to hang the blame for anything on the political right. As a conservative I accept that will always be the case.


Even Sen. Tom Coburn (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/07/coburn-defends-pelosi-takes-swipe-at-fox-2/?iref=allsearch&fbid=tJbbgjyEefp) had to warn people not to get their news just from FOX News. If a strong conservative can see that a network like FOX is playing a strong role in fueling hysteria that should tell you something.

[travesty]

I didn't know that a mob mentality represents the "will of the people."

Anyways, let's say I take you at face value and say I believe you that the majority of people (according to polls) did not want health care reform. Wasn't a huge criticism by conservatives of the Clinton White House was that they followed the polls TOO closely and did not stick to their principles? Now Pelosi and Reid are sticking to their principles and not paying attention to polls (again this is a leap, but I'm giving you, travesty, the benefit of the doubt for this exercise), but they're still hopping mad? Conservatism is never consistent in their criticisms of Democrats in power, but this is making me scratch my head.

Opposition to health care will (and is) die down once people realize that their grandma won't be sentenced to die by a death panel. There was no Stalinist/Hitler takeover, there was no "Armageddon."

I'm pretty sure that the criticisms of Clintons following the polls too closely was by the liberals, not the conservatives. And if memory serves me right didn't several other Democrats come up with their own plans instead of supporting HillaryCare which mudddied the water and helped defeat the idea?

Again your are mixing words. A majority of the people did want healthcare reform, and still do. But a the majority (according to the polls) did not support the Senate bill with or without the "fixes". Time and future elections will tell the real story about how Americans truly feel on this.

Bob, I hear what your saying and I think I agree. That was kind of my point that you, like most Americans, did not like the way the "fight played out". Whether you supported this bill or not, the process was abysmal and quite disheartening. The result of all of that childish BS was a shitty, shitty bill that most (again, according to the polls) do not like. People need to remember that through all of the name calling and political BS the only shred of bi-partisanship on this bill was in opposition to it.

[DroppinScience]

Polls mostly showed a split between support, opposition, and undecided ("wait and see" more or less). Among the three positions, opposition had the highest percentage, but it was not larger than 50%.

And after the passage of the bill, support for it shot up immediately after. Again, I'm not taking the yahoos making threats (and getting arrested and charged for them!) as the "will of the people."

[travesty]

Most polls I've seen in the days leading up to the vote had about 54% opposed and around 40% in favor. In American politics, that a pretty clear majority.

Support may have "bumped" up afterward, but I certainly wouldn't say it "shot" up.

BTW-I love when you post just because I love that pic of Dylan, one of my favorites.

[EN[i]GMA]

You folks can point fingers and blame the right and blame Fox and blame Beck and blame Hannity and blame the teaparty for this if that makes you sleep at night. I know you all have an inate need to hang the blame for anything on the political right. As a conservative I accept that will always be the case.

It's good that you accept the rightful blame for this sort of shit.

"I know we conservatives are totally responsible for this stuff, but I'm going to blame you guys for blaming us for it anyway".

Unbelievable.


However, all I can think to say is "what the fuck did you think was going to happen"? Ever think to blame Obama or Pelosi for inciting violence by blatantly thwarting the will of the American people?

I'm not here to defend Obama et al.

As far as I'm concerned his Presidency has been, to this point, a complete disaster.

That said, he was elected with a clear majority of the popular vote.

Of course not. When leaders do one-sided, authroritarian shit like they did with healthcare,

What?

The POPULARLY ELECTED PARTY pushing through legislation they PROMISED when they were campaigning is "authoritarian"?

Do you know how fucking stupid you sound?

Go on, tell me how white is black, how letting the minority party overrule the majority party is "democratic", and how slavery is freedom.

people who believe they live in a "free" country get pissed off.

These people don't give a shit about "freedom". Where were these morons when the NSA wiretapping scandal was going on? Where are the Tea Party protests for Guantanamo bay?

Fuck these people.

The only kind of "freedom" they want to defend is the freedom for poor people to get sick and die due to lack of proper health care.


And when a whole lot, I mean a WHOLE lot, of them get really pissed off then a few are going to do stupid shit in return. Did anyone NOT see this coming? Frankly I assumed it would be worse but I guess it's not over yet is it?

What did that retard Reagan do to get shot?

I bet he was in the wrong there as well.

Right?

That's how it works, right? Some crazy person does something, but nevertheless it's the fault of the person being threatened/attacked?

[travesty]

As a conservative I will accept the blame, on behalf of all of "us" for people letting their anger get the best of them and threatening the government if you, on behalf of all of "you" liberals, will accept the blame for CRI and other disastrous policies that initiated the collapse of our economy. Deal?

So are you going to agree that George Bush's policies that led us into two unsustainable wars and decimated our civil liberties were OK just because he was elected with a clear majority? Oh no, then why not?

You are right. The Dems won and now they doing what Dems do...take a good idea and fuck it all up. They have earned the right to do that I guess :confused: You like many other Americans can take solace in the fact that "something" got passed and can probably live the rest of your lives thinking it was a victory for all Americans. The problem is that Obama also campaigned on the idea that things wouldn't be this way in Washington if he was elected. He is a liar. Some people just don't mind eating a shit sandwich if everyone around them says it's cool.

[EN[i]GMA]

As a conservative I will accept the blame, on behalf of all of "us" for people letting their anger get the best of them and threatening the government if you, on behalf of all of "you" liberals, will accept the blame for CRI and other disastrous policies that initiated the collapse of our economy. Deal?

What is the CRI?


So are you going to agree that George Bush's policies that led us into two unsustainable wars and decimated our civil liberties were OK just because he was elected with a clear majority? Oh no, then why not?

He wasn't elected with a "clear majority" in the first election. He lost the popular vote but got in due to the electoral college. He was President, but he didn't have a popular mandate.

And the 2nd election, where he did win the popular vote, was far closer than the Obama/McCain election.

Anyway, my point isn't that the losers don't get a say -- they do. You're free to complain all you want, and I never said otherwise. Hell, I complain about the Obama administration. That's not the point.

The point is that what you CAN'T say (or at least can't say without me making fun of you for it) is that somehow the Democrats are being "authoritarian" by just passing laws in accordance with the legally accepted democratic procedures.

I didn't like a damn thing President Bush did, but he (along with Congress) certainly had the democratic power to do as they did. I sure wish they didn't, but they did.


You are right. The Dems won and now they doing what Dems do...take a good idea and fuck it all up. They have earned the right to do that I guess :confused:

I'm not saying I even like our current system.

I certainly don't, indebted as our elected officials are to corporate interests. But I also don't like right wing radicals who said nothing when Bush ran the country according to his (advisor's) iron political will, but who can't handle the democrats doing something not half as egregious as many of the things the Bush administration did.

All's fair in love and war and politics. Suck it up.


You like many other Americans can take solace in the fact that "something" got passed and can probably live the rest of your lives thinking it was a victory for all Americans.

I don't support the health care bill.

It wasn't socialist enough for me.

The problem is that Obama also campaigned on the idea that things wouldn't be this way in Washington if he was elected. He is a liar. Some people just don't mind eating a shit sandwich if everyone around them says it's cool.

I specifically said I thought the Obama Presidency has been a failure so far, largely because Obama has ceded power to corporate interests.

I'm not a supporter of Obama. But I'm not a fan of radical right wing politics either, so it's really lose-lose for me, isn't it?

[RobMoney$]

"BUT BUSH DID IT FIRST!"

Oh, nevermind, I see someone's already used that excuse.

[travesty]

I think we're on the same page here and yes "authoritarian" may have been a stretch. I'll concede that. I was referring to the Community Re-Investment Act, maybe CRI wasn't the right acronym.

But I also don't like right wing radicals who said nothing when Bush ran the country according to his (advisor's) iron political will, but who can't handle the democrats doing something not half as egregious as many of the things the Bush administration did.

Like what? Bush didn't get anything through Congress that didn't have at least some support from both parties. He had pretty broad support from the Dems for Afghanistan, Iraq and the Patriot Act. Even Bush's tax cuts had a handful of Dems voting for it. I can't think of another bill besides healthcare that has passed without a single minority party vote. If Obama is just trying to get an eye for eye then that's fine. That's they way politics is. Just don't try and tell me it's change.

[EN[i]GMA]

"BUT BUSH DID IT FIRST!"

Oh, nevermind, I see someone's already used that excuse.

It's not an "excuse".

Do you hear me saying that it's OK because Bush did it first? No? Then it's not an excuse.

It's just a fact that these hypocritical fucks weren't saying a damn thing when Bush was doing stuff far more egregious than this (like, you know, ACTUALLY taking away people's liberty) but start to threaten the safety of our elected officials about giving health insurance to poor people.

[EN[i]GMA]

I think we're on the same page here and yes "authoritarian" may have been a stretch. I'll concede that. I was referring to the Community Re-Investment Act, maybe CRI wasn't the right acronym.

The stimulus has been a success.

Don't listen to the right wing propaganda, look at the research that's been done on it.


Like what? Bush didn't get anything through Congress that didn't have at least some support from both parties.

That's just not true.

The Bush tax cut, if I remember correctly, was barely passed.


He had pretty broad support from the Dems for Afghanistan, Iraq and the Patriot Act.

And both Iraq and the Patriot Act were to everyone's shame.

But so what?

That's even worse. People don't protest illegal wars and unconstitutional laws that take us one step closer to tyranny but they go out and protest giving health insurance to poor people because "that's socialism".

Anyone who does that is a grade-A moron.


Even Bush's tax cuts had a handful of Dems voting for it.

I think the vote was still extraordinarily close.

And certain Democratcs, eg. Joe Lieberman, do not count.

I can't think of another bill besides healthcare that has passed without a single minority party vote. If Obama is just trying to get an eye for eye then that's fine. That's they way politics is. Just don't try and tell me it's change.

Except the health care bill Obama passed makes use of numerous ideas previously favored by Republicans both in Congress and outside of it.

In fact, it's damn near the same health care bill that was passed to both Republican and Democratic acclaim by Mitt Romney in Mass.

If the Republicans refused to vote for a bill outlawing sweat shops or something, would that make the Democrats the bad guys by passing something with the only majority support?

Hardly.

All the Tea Party movement shows is that the same ignorance that manifested itself in support of GW Bush can now be turned around against Democrats. Anyone worried about "socialism" or thinking that Obama is Hitler is a fucking moron. Just like all those people who thought Bush was Hitler.

By the way, when you start hearing "Anybody but Obama", remember that I called it.

[travesty]

What;'s the stimulus got to do with the CRIA? If it weren't for the Dems blocking reforms proposed by the GOP to the CRIA, we likely wouldn't have needed a "stimulus" or TARP.

In the House (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll149.xml) 27 Democrats, plus Lieberman voted for the Bush tax cuts. In the Senate (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00165) 12 Democrats voted for it. That is unequivocably more bi-partisan support than what was garnered for Obamacare.

People DID protest illegal war. Just because they were not as loud and active as the Tea Party doesn't mean it NEVER happened. In fact, if you really get right down to it and listen to the consensus ideals that started the movement, the Tea Party is probably the huge war protest you always wanted. These wars, the manner in which they were initiated as well as the Patriot Act are a lot of what the Tea Party is protesting. After 8 shitty years of Bush, the housing collapse and TARP I think there was a lot of pent up anger. The Obama stimulus was enough to get people to start to become vocal and then Obamacare was what broke the floodgates. Had this been just about healthcare, it would have fizzled out by now but I think these people are genuinely fed up with the way the government is being run and it's not just Obama's administration or the healthcare bill. Conservatives got fucked by Bush pretty hard too. (In fact I still the think that as far as policy goes, the Dems made out far, far better under Bush than conservatives did) I agree the the GOP is trying to grab the steering wheel of the Tea Party movement. I don't think they have complete control yet, but they're damn close.

I hate when people marginalize any opposition to the healthcare bill. Just because I think it's a shitty bill does in no way mean that I don't want poor people to have health insurance, in fact I do and always have and I am not alone. I just feel that this bill does not solve the problem and probably exacerbates it. It's the proposed solution that IS the problem, not the acceptance of the initial issue.
For example; If you told me you had a toothache and a doctor said they could fix it by shoving a red hot pair of pliers up your ass through your torso until they could pull that tooth out your ass, would you agree that is not a good solution? Would you say I hate people with toothaches if I opposed that solution? To say that people who oppose Obamacare don't want poor people to have insurance is frankly absurd.

Whoever wants to take credit for Romneycare can at their own peril. It's fucked and it's taking Mass. down with it. Besides there are no Republicans in Mass. They just don't exist.

[EN[i]GMA]

What;'s the stimulus got to do with the CRIA? If it weren't for the Dems blocking reforms proposed by the GOP to the CRIA, we likely wouldn't have needed a "stimulus" or TARP.

In the House (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll149.xml) 27 Democrats, plus Lieberman voted for the Bush tax cuts. In the Senate (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00165) 12 Democrats voted for it. That is unequivocably more bi-partisan support than what was garnered for Obamacare.

All that shows is that the Democrats are willing to work with Republicans when not in power while the Republicans are not.

Like I said previously, the Democrats can't force Republicans to vote for things.

And that the Democrats voted for Bush's bills is to their shame, not to their credit.


People DID protest illegal war. Just because they were not as loud and active as the Tea Party doesn't mean it NEVER happened.

But not the same people, note.

In fact, if you really get right down to it and listen to the consensus ideals that started the movement, the Tea Party is probably the huge war protest you always wanted.

No it isn't.

I don't see any signs about cutting the Pentagon budget, or reducing the size and power of the US military.

Maybe they're there, but I've never seen or heard about them.

These wars, the manner in which they were initiated as well as the Patriot Act are a lot of what the Tea Party is protesting.

9 years too late.

And no, they aren't protesting the wars or the PATRIOT ACT.

This is about the budget deficit (largely Bush's fault) and the health care bill.

They didn't protest the Medicare drug bill. Why not?

They didn't protest No Child Left Behind? Why not?

They didn't protest tax cuts that put us into a huge budget deficit? Why not?

Sure, you'll hear these people lamely condemn the Bush Presidency for its spending. Now. Years too late.

Where were they when it mattered, for example in the ballot or in the primaries?


After 8 shitty years of Bush, the housing collapse and TARP I think there was a lot of pent up anger.

Released just in time to blame Obama, who had the misfortune of getting elected at the wrong time, after one of the worst Presidents in our history.

And who takes all the blame?

The Obama stimulus was enough to get people to start to become vocal and then Obamacare was what broke the floodgates.

So a successful bill that helped the economy and a bill that's main flaw is that it doesn't go far enough to do what it's supposed to do are what's making people angry?

Had this been just about healthcare, it would have fizzled out by now but I think these people are genuinely fed up with the way the government is being run and it's not just Obama's administration or the healthcare bill.


Conservatives got fucked by Bush pretty hard too. (In fact I still the think that as far as policy goes, the Dems made out far, far better under Bush than conservatives did)

Tell me you're joking.

I agree the the GOP is trying to grab the steering wheel of the Tea Party movement. I don't think they have complete control yet, but they're damn close.

Exactly.

The GOP commits a string of the most disastrous governmental fuckups in history, gets run out of office for it, and gets promptly re-elected to fix all the problems they created just 4 short years ago.

Yeah, that'll show those Republicans, re-electing them again! They'll have to leave their summer house on Nantucket Island and go WORK in June and July.


I hate when people marginalize any opposition to the healthcare bill. Just because I think it's a shitty bill does in no way mean that I don't want poor people to have health insurance, in fact I do and always have and I am not alone. I just feel that this bill does not solve the problem and probably exacerbates it. It's the proposed solution that IS the problem, not the acceptance of the initial issue.

You're right, I actually agree with you here, but probably not for the same reason you do.

I too dislike this bill, but only because I'm a supporter of single payer healthcare.

So while me and the Tea Party movement both nominally dislike this bill, it's wrong to put us on the same side of the issue.

People like me hate the bill because it's not socialist enough.

Tea Partiers hate it because they think it requires us to send Grandma to the vet instead of a real doctor.

What you have to realize is that my problem IS that the health care bill doesn't help the poor enough.

The Tea Partier's concern is either a) crazy death panel bullshit or b) just miserly conservative "I don't want to pay for that" selfishness.

Really, what's the third option here?

Tea Partiers hate the bill because they're either misinformed, or just don't want to pay for it.

Though the latter group are really the former since single payer health care is more efficient than our system, but I digress.


For example; If you told me you had a toothache and a doctor said they could fix it by shoving a red hot pair of pliers up your ass through your torso until they could pull that tooth out your ass, would you agree that is not a good solution? Would you say I hate people with toothaches if I opposed that solution? To say that people who oppose Obamacare don't want poor people to have insurance is frankly absurd.

You're right, in a sense. I too "oppose" the Obama health care bill and I want poor people to get good health care.

But, unlike the Tea Party movement, I fully support using government funding to achieve that.

I think it is fair to say that the Tea Partiers don't care about giving health care to the poor because they're protesting that idea. They don't hate Obamacare for a few specific, technical reasons. They hate it because they've been told it's big government socialism.

Imagine how they'd react if it actually was big government socialism.

Rejecting every possible means of giving health care to those who cannot afford it is, quite simply, consigning the poor to die.

I'm just calling it what it is. It's the same as not having a social safety net, or retirement security, or whatever other loony ideas these people have.


Whoever wants to take credit for Romneycare can at their own peril. It's fucked and it's taking Mass. down with it. Besides there are no Republicans in Mass. They just don't exist.

Everyone hates Mitt Romney, I guess.

[travesty]

:DGMA;1729512']And that the Democrats voted for Bush's bills is to their shame, not to their credit.
Same for those who voted for Obamacare...shame.

But not the same people, note.
Fair enough.



No it isn't.
I don't see any signs about cutting the Pentagon budget, or reducing the size and power of the US military.
Maybe they're there, but I've never seen or heard about them.
As I eluded to, the GOP is kinda steering this thing now so those signs probably have to be turned in at the door :) But to be fair, in the beggining there was a pretty appearant disdain for all things Bush coming from the tea party.


9 years too late.
Better late than never right?

And no, they aren't protesting the wars or the PATRIOT ACT.
This is about the budget deficit (largely Bush's fault) and the health care bill.
They didn't protest the Medicare drug bill. Why not?
They didn't protest No Child Left Behind? Why not?
They didn't protest tax cuts that put us into a huge budget deficit? Why not?
Like I said, I think it started as a response to a culmination of things. Not everyone gets active about each little issue they oppose every time one comes up.

Sure, you'll hear these people lamely condemn the Bush Presidency for its spending. Now. Years too late.
Well it was the Democrats job to do something about it at the time and they failed. They failed to alert (alarm) the public enough. Lewis Black said it best. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCByM-JaAhY) Are you resentful that the GOP has a better organizing machine?

Released just in time to blame Obama, who had the misfortune of getting elected at the wrong time, after one of the worst Presidents in our history.
MIS-Fortune? If you're going to follow someone on stage, wouldn't you rather it be the worst guy? Shit, Obama could have laid back, skated through 4 years doing nothing but appointing liberal judges and he would have been a shoe-in for another term and the smiling adoration of historians. Any fucking moron could have come out smelling like roses after GW. He just continues to step on his own dick every step of the way, pleasing no one in the process and, so far, squandering virtually all of the political capital the Dems had showered on them when GW left. He is completely inept and deserves all of the blame he is getting, from both sides.

So a successful bill that helped the economy and a bill that's main flaw is that it doesn't go far enough to do what it's supposed to do are what's making people angry?
The stimulus is a Hoodini act. I tell you to give me a million dollars for an apple orchard. You agree and give me a million bucks. When I give you a bushel of apples instead of an orchard are you going to tell me that was good deal because you still got apples? Parts of the stimulus have worked, Many parts have failed and a whole shitload of it hasn't even been activated yet. But it has not even come close to producing the king of results he sold us on. Reminds me of WMD's. Same kinda BS. Believe it was worth it if you want, it's far too nebulous to prove either way.

Tell me you're joking.
Highest education expenditures ever. Absolutely nothing done to stem the flow of illegal immigrants. Huge spending increases. Helped curtail gross human rights abuses under Sadam Hussein. All sound liek thinsg liberals can get on board with.
:D

The GOP commits a string of the most disastrous governmental fuckups in history, gets run out of office for it, and gets promptly re-elected to fix all the problems they created just 4 short years ago.
Yeah, that'll show those Republicans, re-electing them again! They'll have to leave their summer house on Nantucket Island and go WORK in June and July.
Frankly that's why the populus voted for "Change" . Now that they realize they aren't going to get it with Obama, I think they'd rather have high healthcosts and a job than free healthcare and no job so they are willing to give the GOP another shot. Like I said, Obama has really squandered his chance to make America better.

I'd answer more but I've got a 10 hour drive to OH in the AM. Peace Holmes.

[DroppinScience]

I agree with you, Enigma, but I would like to point out that some of the Tea Party movement are Ron Paul worshippers and they certainly openly opposed the Patriot Act, Bush-era spending, and the wars. A small minority and hardly representative of the Tea Party in general, but it was there...

[EN[i]GMA]

I agree with you, Enigma, but I would like to point out that some of the Tea Party movement are Ron Paul worshippers and they certainly openly opposed the Patriot Act, Bush-era spending, and the wars. A small minority and hardly representative of the Tea Party in general, but it was there...

Yeah. But those people are EVEN CRAZIER than the regular tea partiers.

Get rid of the department of education, medicare, social security, etc.?

No thanks, guys!

[Burnout18]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/nj-teachers-union-jokes-about-gov-chris-christies-death/

Gov christie isn't a member of congress but oh well, lets count him in too.