Dude got arrested at the library

[abcdefz]

I asked what you had to do to get arrested at the computers and the guard said "child pornography."

Whoaaaaaa.

[Audio.]

haha that guy is an idiot.

[Adam]

8 year olds dude.

[Documad]

You would think those sites would be blocked at the library. I tried to access a sex-related website from Panera and Panera blocked me. :rolleyes:

(In case anyone's interested, I was listening to a podcast during the Larry Craig-at-Minneapolis-airport thing and they were talking about the website that listed the Minneapolis bathrooms with the most male-on-male cruising and I was so curious I forgot that I was at a Panera. I got the big "blocked" page and felt dumb.)

[Waus]

I think a lot of the real child porn stuff is probably on sites that aren't listed on blacklist things that people use for library filters. It's one thing to block adult sites, it's another to search out illegal or underground sites, I'm sure those things use all sorts of formats and change address constantly.


Eugh, though. (n)

He must have just been getting his jollies at the library too - since it's not like you could print that off and take it home.

[abcdefz]

Actually, you can print at this library.

Also, there are no filters here, to the consternation of some. There was a small but vocal movement to get some installed, because
porn watching at this library is rampant and very visible. But the expense is deemed to large and the filters too unreliable. Plus, this
library is tied into San Jose State College, so it turns into a California academia issue as well, etc. etc.


http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/south_bay&id=6771963


FWIW

[jabumbo]

other points aside, how expensive can it really be to set up a filter? i mean, doesn't windows come with shit like that for people to set stuff up for their kids at home?

[abcdefz]

They pegged it at $80k.

I think the problem with most filters is that they over-filter. For instance, I worked at a place where we tried filters for a bit. One wouldn't
let me get on an office supply site. We realized it was because the site carried paper by A.B. Dick. Seriously. The filter would see the
word "dick" in a prominent spot and throw me an "objectionable site" response.

So they want a filter that will filter pornography but not, say, a site about cervical cancer. Also, what if someone wants to do research
about perversion? --and so on.

If it were up to me, I'd just have restrictions on the kids' and teens' computers which a librarian could bypass upon request.

[abcdefz]

...anyway, it was weird. I was sitting at a computer facing the window, and there are about five rows behind me. Maybe 30 computers in that section. A security guard came and stood next to my table and I thought he was just kind of looking at the people in general. A moment later, I heard the kid behind me saying something about " -- it just kind of popped up on me. I'm sorry." And the guard said (not unkindly, though it sounds like it), "You will be sorry. How old are you?" "Eighteen." Then the guard called for police, who showed up really fast. They took the kid and his skateboard and pack over to one side and asked him where he lived, had he ever been arrested before. (This was maybe twelve feet from where I was sitting.) The cop held the kids hands and patted him down, then cuffed him. The kid looked miserable.

[yeahwho]

That is disturbing considering libraries always have kids. Very creepy. Was this a random incident where security observed it as it happened or do you think it was part of an ongoing investigation?

[abcdefz]

They're getting better about patrolling. The 4th floor used to be an unsupervised free-for-all -- people surfing Craigslist for tranny hookers and not ashamed to be very vocal about it for the entire room's benefit. Now they've gotten rid of a lot of the computers people could hide behind, so all the screens are more or less in the open. So people still look at porn, but more in glimpses than anything.

Children aren't usually in the area (they have their own sections with computers) ,and when they are, security tends to hover much more.

It's still not perfect, but it's getting better.

[yeahwho]

I've only used the computers at the library here in the Northwest about once a year. At my library they have these filtered diffuser style screens so you have to be right up on the screen.. a privacy shield deal. The only open screened computers are the catalog ones.

I actually use to sleep at a few of the libraries in Seattle when I was drinking real heavy, they had big over stuffed chairs. I was pretty fucked up and couldn't hold a library card so I never got access to the computers. I didn't want access anyway. Just a nice chair for a few hours to snooze in.

That's wild, I always envision child porn freaks to be old balding fat twisted guys hidden away in some basement somewhere, not skateboard dudes in a California library.

[abcdefz]

They have screens like that, sort of, except anyone who is directly facing the monitor can see the display. You have to be right in line with it, but you can see.

[TurdBerglar]

for all we know he could have just opened up an email from his GF with some raunchy pics taken by her not knowing was was in that email.

[abcdefz]

Whatever it was, the discussion was really short. He was just busted a said a feeble "it just opened on me" or whatever, then "I'm sorry." No other protest. He was just BUSTED.

[TurdBerglar]

in one of my classes the prof intended on going to whitehouse.org. instead he accidentally typed whitehouse.com. whitehouse.com is/was some porn site. so this porn site was being projected onto this massive screen in front of the class. it was clearly an accident. some woman complaned and made quite a problem of the matter and he nearly lost his job of 20 some odd years.

[Adam]

Why not use open source OS's and software? You've got no end of free stalking tools and filters that are very flexible and viruses wouldn't be a problem. No need for licenses to pay for, it should keep your cost right down if all your computers are the web and general word processing etc.

[QueenAdrock]

other points aside, how expensive can it really be to set up a filter? i mean, doesn't windows come with shit like that for people to set stuff up for their kids at home?


Libraries are inherently anti-filtering, because it's censorship. A-Z is right. Filters are pretty much bullshit, since they block out around 20% of good sites and about 20% of bad sites are still let through. For example, if someone wants to research "breast cancer," it'll block almost everything because the word "breast" is part of the filter. Plus, it's NOT hard to get around filters. Teens do it all the time in school libraries (who have them installed because they have to answer to school boards and parents, who seem to think they're a magical answer to everything).

Instead, most libraries set up a fair usage policy and tell them what's okay to do and what's not and will kick patrons out due to complaints or if it's seen that what they're doing is illegal.

[Adam]

hehe, breasts.

[abcdefz]

Libraries are inherently anti-filtering, because it's censorship..

...but in a sense, libraries "censor" all the time. I can't go to the library and check out porn from the collection to take home and use in private, yet I can access endless porn on site to view in public.

Still, I don't see it as censorship. They're restrictions. I think it's fine if tax dollars aren't spent giving citizens free access to porn. People get privlidges and rights confused.

[RobMoney$]

I got arrested at the Mardi Gras for jumpin' on a boat

[JBernas]

I got arrested at the Mardi Gras for jumpin' on a boat

one of my favorite(y)

[QueenAdrock]

...but in a sense, libraries "censor" all the time. I can't go to the library and check out porn from the collection to take home and use in private, yet I can access endless porn on site to view in public.

Still, I don't see it as censorship. They're restrictions. I think it's fine if tax dollars aren't spent giving citizens free access to porn. People get privlidges and rights confused.

Each library has a different collections policy though, which defines what they decide to collect and not collect based on the research/information needs of their surrounding community. For example, a public library may not carry an autobiography on artist Nicolas de Largilliere, any sort of military reports, maps of oil wells in the Boreal Shield, or pornography, simply because they have a budget to adhere to and it's outside the realm of legitimate research needs of the immediate surrounding community. Places that WILL carry those sorts of things are special libraries and academic libraries. If you're really interested in getting to pornography, check out your local university's library -- you'll be VERY surprised to see what you can find. You can find pretty much any kind of information anywhere you want, you just have to go outside of public libraries sometimes.

Filters ARE censorship if they keep out important information from reaching the public. There's quite a few gay and lesbian teens out there who are curious about what they're feeling and what they're going through and are embarrassed to search for anything on their home computers, where the history is tracked. If they go to the library to do research on homosexuality and if the library has filters, their information is in fact blocked and censored. Simply put, you don't keep out all of the bad, you keep out a lot of the good, and filters can be easily disabled by people. It's not the best solution, by far.

I'd be for a system that has a filter on it with "flags" in that if it SEEMS to be objectionable, it would send the site description to the librarian on duty; if it was in fact pornography (which is stated as "illegal activity" on the fair use policy), she could take the appropriate steps to get him thrown out. That way, if she sees some shit like "Computer 12 has accessed a recipe on how to cook chicken breasts" it can go ignored. Also not a perfect solution, but it'd be much better than letting a non-human filter that relies on certain keywords to block materials.

[QueenAdrock]

PS: Check out what I just found!

Debbie Does Dallas, University of Calgary (http://www.talonline.ca/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-55365-1116300273&recno=4&resultset=2&format=F&next=html/nffull.html&bad=error/badfetch.html&&entitytoprecno=4&entitycurrecno=4)

Hmmm...I think I may have found inspiration for a thesis ;)

[DroppinScience]

Internet filters on public computers (such as a public library) are certainly well-intentioned and nice in theory, but they simply do not work in practice.

For many reasons stated above, filters are too prone to block out non-pornographic material (both legal and illegal porn) -- such as breast cancer websites, gay/lesbian websites -- yet end up NOT filtering pornographic or illegal content. Better to have unfiltered Internet (in public libraries, if someone is caught surfing porn of any variety, they get the tap on the shoulder and are told not to do that) than clunky filters that do more harm than good.

And any university library would lose credibility very quickly if they had Internet filters (again, this goes back to the sorts of things universities research and the spirit of academic freedom).

As for print collections of porn or erotica (I'm hesitant to throw the term porn around because definitions are murky and it has a negative context -- I don't usually see legal "porn" as negative), you'll often find that things like a subscription to Playboy, Madonna's "Sex" book, and others are usually in closed stacks and/or behind a desk that you have to request to see and use ONLY in the library.

[yeahwho]

Growing Epidemic!

Charges filed against alleged library peeper (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/99639149.html)

[abcdefz]

That's some Chuck Berry stuff right there.

[yeahwho]

The woman told police "knew she was being watched" when she noticed a mirror sliding under the partition separating the stalls, a Bothell detective told the court.

There is no fooling some people, no matter how hard you try.