Ground Zero Mosque

[Burnout18]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/greg-gutfield-to-open-a-gay-bar-next-to-ground-zero-mosque-to-cater-to-islamic-gay-men/

I have no problem with the mosque being opened..... however, this is great.

[Echewta]

Freedom isn't free.

While the Mosque will most likely get donations etc, I doubt the bar would be able to stay open very long. Thats just a guess since I would assume the gay male islamic community is pretty small or that they would want to go to a bar that has such a focus on it.

[Adam]

That just left me scratching my head. I don't get it :confused: Or is it just one big gay joke with an awful punchline?

Why would they want to go to his bar?
Are investors too rich again that investing in ideas that look like they will fail is worth a risk?
Why is a mosque controversial near Ground Zero? Its not actually in place of the two towers I assume with a big "We Won" or "Mission Accomplish" banner across it is it?

New York is big enough, open minded enough to let different religions live in relative closeness and get along ain't it? I live in a city of about 600,000. There is a mosque every couple of miles or so from the centre and less so as you hit the suburbs and I don't think there is a big islamic community here so an assumption would be, there was probably already several mosque near ground zero and with it being a growing city with one of the fastest growing religions in the world, it will need more mosques until a plateau can be reached and some other religion becomes the true word of god.

[Dorothy Wood]

the mosque isn't a mosque and it's two blocks away from ground zero.

it's slated to be an islamic community center. there's prayer space, but it's not a mosque. also, muslims already gather and pray in that building and have been for awhile.

I find the gay bar idea pretty unfunny.

[Bob]

the mosque isn't a mosque and it's two blocks away from ground zero.

it's slated to be an islamic community center. there's prayer space, but it's not a mosque. also, muslims already gather and pray in that building and have been for awhile.

I find the gay bar idea pretty unfunny.

it's pretty astonishing how buried this fact is. i'm ashamed to say that even i assumed it would be a mosque until i watched the daily show this morning, just because every single fucking media outlet is calling it that

you'd think one of them would say something but no, when you have to deny that they're building a mega mosque on hallowed ground to serve as an al qaeda headquarters and usher in sharia law and destroy the american way of life the fact that it isn't even a mosque is just a little detail that gets buried under all the shouting, there's no time to get a word in and address it

[ms.peachy]

I am outraged that they are building a mosque there! I thought it was still the Burlington Coat Factory and I used to get a lot of good clothes there really cheap and now I'm going to have find someplace else to go when I get back to NY to buy really good cheap clothes!

[yeahwho]

I remember this funny tidbit caucus I read awhile back, Palin, Shakespeare and the Ground Zero Mosque (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/palin-shakespeare-and-the-ground-zero-mosque/?scp=3&sq=ground%20zero%20mosque&st=cse).

If they build that gay bar please call it teabaggers.

It is embarrassing that folks can be manipulated into thinking almost anything by media twats. I'm amazed at how poorly the media portrays reality.

[Whatitis]

the mosque isn't a mosque and it's two blocks away from ground zero.

it's slated to be an islamic community center. there's prayer space, but it's not a mosque. also, muslims already gather and pray in that building and have been for awhile.

But even the Cordoba Initiative of the Cordoba House or Park51 call the "prayer space" a mosque (http://www.park51.org/facilities.htm).

I'm all for the mosque that's located in the community center at Lower Manhattan or anywhere in the world.

[Dorothy Wood]

But even the Cordoba Initiative of the Cordoba House or Park51 call the "prayer space" a mosque (http://www.park51.org/facilities.htm).

I'm all for the mosque that's located in the community center at Lower Manhattan or anywhere in the world.


well, I stand corrected, but I guess I meant that the whole thing isn't a giant monster mosque sitting directly on ground zero, with lights powered by the blood of christians.

[Echewta]

blood can't power things. Thats just silly. And messy.

[Dorothy Wood]

blood can't power things. Thats just silly. And messy.


sure it could, you just need a lot of tubing and a watermill. duh!

just keep the all the blood in a navigable river to cut down on mess, see: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1OFe6OW0NaI/RYX88VKaD5I/AAAAAAAAAEI/QNtN2wlfCnI/s320/Willy+Wonka+Chocolate+River.jpg

[Echewta]

I could just imagine the club soda bill!!!

[RobMoney$]

the mosque isn't a mosque and it's two blocks away from ground zero.

it's slated to be an islamic community center. there's prayer space, but it's not a mosque. also, muslims already gather and pray in that building and have been for awhile.


If it's truly a "community center", then why are people who support it using the freedom of religion angle?

[Echewta]

Ground zero is still a big hole, correct?

[Adam]

technically should be flat or you move into ground negative one, ground negative two etc

[RobMoney$]

The bottom line is that until there's a Ted Kennedy memorial swimming and driving school opening up in Chappaquiddick, this Mosque takes the prize for most inappropriate landmark in the history of things being built.

Just like the Westboro Baptists have the right to protest soldier funerals... but I think they should have the tact to not do it.
Same applies here.

[Bob]

The bottom line is that until there's a Ted Kennedy memorial swimming and driving school opening up in Chappaquiddick, this Mosque takes the prize for most inappropriate landmark in the history of things being built.

Just like the Westboro Baptists have the right to protest soldier funerals... but I think they should have the tact to not do it.
Same applies here.

couldn't you use the same logic to say that christians and christian symbols should have the tact to stay away from soldier funerals and military cemetaries? because the westboro baptists have as much to do with christians as the guys who did 9/11 have to do with islam

[Whatitis]

Everyone bitching about this mosque makes America look bad. It's not like a terrorist traing camp is being put there. Putting a mosque there would really show the tolerance that America has with improving relations with Islamics.

[kaiser soze]

If it's truly a "community center", then why are people who support it using the freedom of religion angle?

They're just espousing their Constitutionally protected rights that Sarah Palin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU3qq5DGyFs&feature=related) is fighti....oh wait

[kaiser soze]

couldn't you use the same logic to say that christians and christian symbols should have the tact to stay away from soldier funerals and military cemetaries? because the westboro baptists have as much to do with christians as the guys who did 9/11 have to do with islam

or how about Catholic churches and their proximity to schools,daycares or playgrounds?

If we use the same logic than every Catholic is guilty for the pedophiles running their Church.

[Echewta]

I did a Yelp! search for business around the sacred ground. Heres what I came up with:

Scott's Pizza Tours
Whole Foods Market
College Educated Movers
Tribeca Dental Associates
Laicale Soho Salon
Younghee Salon
Tribeca Skin Center
St Paul's Chapel of Trinity Church
Grace Gratitude Buddhist Temple
USA Shaolin Temple
St Andrews Roman Catholic Church
Agudath Israel of America
etc.

[kaiser soze]

Let us not forget the sex shops.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/16/2010-08-16_a_sea_of_filth_near_ground_zer0_mosque_gets_all _the_press_but_porns_around_corne.html

http://dnainfo.com/20100816/downtown/several-sex-shops-peep-shows-bars-located-near-ground-zero-report-says

I'm a bit confused about this, how do the same people who support our troops ( who are fighting and dying to "liberate" individuals from tyranny in the middle east ), are more than likely the same people who want to deny freedoms and liberty for individuals on our own soil?

I guess our soldiers' mission is all for naught :(

[RobMoney$]

because the westboro baptists have as much to do with christians as the guys who did 9/11 have to do with islam

I don't blame everyone who is Islamic for 9-11, just as I don't blame all christians for the westboro baptists actions.
The attackers that I DO blame were all followers of Islam, and used that as justification for killing innocent Americans.


It's not really about Islam for me, it's about the out of control sense of entitlement that exists in America. It shouldn't be about proving how open minded America is, or fulfilling someone's sense of entitlement.


It bothers me that some of us seem to be forgetting 9-11.

[Burnout18]

Did anyone point out that some the right at one point ignored and mocked 9/11 victim's families wishes when it came to the iraq war? Now these same ppl are using 9/11 victim's wishes for thier political needs?

[Bob]

I don't blame everyone who is Islamic for 9-11, just as I don't blame all christians for the westboro baptists actions.
The attackers that I DO blame were all followers of Islam, and used that as justification for killing innocent Americans.


It's not really about Islam for me, it's about the out of control sense of entitlement that exists in America. It shouldn't be about proving how open minded America is, or fulfilling someone's sense of entitlement.


It bothers me that some of us seem to be forgetting 9-11.

what does a sense of entitlement have to do with it exactly?

[RobMoney$]

what does a sense of entitlement have to do with it exactly?


Some of the supporters of this initiative, including your President, depending on which day of the week you ask him, are using the defense that Islamics should build this because they are entitled to worship and build a mosque wherever they wish in America.

I'm entitled to open the Ted Kennedy Memorial Diving & Driving School too, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea based solely on the fact that I'm entitled to.

There will never be another skyscraper built on that site out of fear of it being attacked again. So why build a mosque on the same soil where muslim terrorists killed over 3000 innocent people?
If built it will always be a bone of contention, protests, and a target for extremists. Why would they want the controversy?
And all simply to prove a point that they're "entitled" as much as anyone else.

It just doesn't seem righteous.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

If it was a muslim book store 5 blocks away there would be the same accusations. If it were a mosque 10 blocks away it would be the same thing. It would still be "a mosque at ground zero." Gasp! How dare they!

The whole purpose of this debate is to find a topic to mobilize the voting base and gain political advantage. The game is to find a devisive topic that can sway public opinion to your advantage and bring that topic to the forefront.

Am I the only one who finds it completely insane that the party who wants less government intervention is in a political debate over whether the muslims should be "allowed" to put a building there. Shouldn't tea party people be saying, "Well, the developer paid for the space, the government has no right to interfere." You watch, the next thing is there will be some twisted crazy argument on how the government is "subsidizing" the mosque in some round about way. Tie it in with a little of the ol' "Obamah is a Muslim" and "he's not even American born" and that will get people frothing at the mouth. The argument doesn't have to be based in reality, it just has to push emotional buttons and sway public opinion.

This whole debate is ridiculous. Let's not forget 9-11? Yeah, let's not forget how certain people used 9-11 as an oportunity and excuse to gain political power. THAT'S slap in the face to 9-11 survivors!

Remember, we attacked Iraq because 9-11 suposedly necessitated it. All this loosey goosey rhetoric was thrown around and before long half the population thought Iraq attacked us. And let's not forget how long certain people had been waiting for an excuse to attack Iraq. When you look back on it, 2,976 Americans died in 911. To date 5,617 Americans have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. All because our idiot president and congress decided it was a good idea to use 911 to convince the public that we should fight a war that would not have been otherwise backed by the public. With this "mosque at ground zero" thing, Politicians are using the same rhetorical games that were used with the war in Iraq.

A muslim community center (which has prayer space) is suddenly a "mosque." 2 blocks from ground zero is now "ground zero". The entire muslim faith is now somehow equated with the specific terroists who attacked the U.S. Just because "muslims" attacked us doesn't mean ALL muslims attacked us. Just because someone from the middle east attacked us does not mean the entire middle east attacked us. It's generalizations and false syllogisms.

True Syllogism
Major premise: All mortals die.
Minor premise: All men are mortals.
Conclusion: All men die.

False Syllogism:
Major premise: All terrorists are evil
Minor premise: All the 9-11 terrorists were Muslim
False Conclusion: All muslims are evil

By a simple slight of hand you have people all worked up an ready to nuke half a continent. There is a large segment of the population that simply can't spot a false syllogism. This whole debate is ridiculous. Its devisive.

[kaiser soze]

It bothers me that some of us seem to be forgetting 9-11.

Who has forgotten? Please point out who.

I would point the finger at GW BUSH (http://taylorhome.org/rschimg/bushStepsOnFlag.jpg) first

It is too bad 9/11 will control many aspects of policy concerning U.S. citizens' rights, freedom's, and liberties in our nation from that day forth....and because of that the terrorists won.

[Bob]

Some of the supporters of this initiative, including your President, depending on which day of the week you ask him, are using the defense that Islamics should build this because they are entitled to worship and build a mosque wherever they wish in America.

I'm entitled to open the Ted Kennedy Memorial Diving & Driving School too, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea based solely on the fact that I'm entitled to.

There will never be another skyscraper built on that site out of fear of it being attacked again. So why build a mosque on the same soil where muslim terrorists killed over 3000 innocent people?
If built it will always be a bone of contention, protests, and a target for extremists. Why would they want the controversy?
And all simply to prove a point that they're "entitled" as much as anyone else.

It just doesn't seem righteous.

my problem with this is that building a muslim community center on ground zero is only insensitive or offensive if you fail to separate "muslim" from "muslim terrorist". most muslims are not terrorists, in fact i would venture to say many muslims are quite fond of america and feel the same way about 9/11 as the rest of us do. a few muslims probably even died in the attack.

but it's insensitive to let them have a building near ground zero because we're confusing them with the terrorists? that's the attitude that we ought to endorse?

[kaiser soze]

word

I guess we should also treat all white 20 something veterans as terrorists because well...Timothy Mcveigh was a white 20 something veteran turned terrorist.

Why should the Agudath Israel of America be allowed to be close by? Did you forget the Attack on the USS Liberty (http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html?q=ussliberty.html) by Israel?

We should call this what it is - BIGOTRY.

P.S.

I would love for all religious leaders who have a straight head on their shoulders to call out hateful, destructive impostors in their religions.

OR

Have all religions abolished and kept to personal reflection (which I truly believe GOD intended)

[Nicodemus]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the throngs of Muslim men touring the world, praying in mosques near some of "the terrorists' greatest hits." This mosque, like it or not, will be used as, basically, stadium seating. But, yeah, would 4 blocks away be ok? Its a weird issue. I'm sorry, the Muslim religion doesn't mesh well with the Western world. That's just a sad fact. Don't blame families grieving the loss of loved ones that might be offended. Blame the terrorists. They brought this on the world. We've got a long way to go.

Just an opinion. We all got 'em.

[Echewta]

Like John Stewarts show said "We still let Catholics build churches near playgrounds."

[Nicodemus]

Haha! True! The world is just screwed. Its the same as a Christian church close to a predominately Jewish neighborhood. There's a million examples and comparisons. That's why I only watch Hee Haw.

You still at Disney? I was there recently. You know a crafty named Rodney?

[RobMoney$]

word

I guess we should also treat all white 20 something veterans as terrorists because well...Timothy Mcveigh was a white 20 something veteran turned terrorist.


Perhaps more like the way all white males are blamed for slavery even though none of us had anything to do with it, but we still try to show compassion and understanding to african american people because of it.

And so should the people advocating for this mosque at that location should show a little more understanding and compassion.

[RobMoney$]

Like John Stewarts show said "We still let Catholics build churches near playgrounds."


I'm not sure which is more off base, compairing ground zero to a playground, or advocating for this mosque.

[cosmo105]

IT'S NOT A GODDAMN MOSQUE

[Turchinator]

and it isn't even on Ground Zero.

and the Freedom Tower will go up, 1776 feet high, on the actual soil that is Ground Zero...

as soon as they are done excavating that 200 year old ship that was buried there :rolleyes:

(I'm a bit annoyed at the priorities of NY and Americans to rebuild when they find a buried boat in a landfill and decide to call in an archaeological team)

I am still of the opinion that this debate is more of a talking piece and political battle everywhere outside the community that it is affecting...

I simply want to know where families of 9/11 stand on the Islamic Cultural Center two blocks from Ground Zero.

I also want to know how "peaceful" New Yorkers feel about it as well.

So our president weighed in on it. It was pretty much a no-brainer.

It's like, "This is America"

the president of the Free World has to remind everyone that this country was built on freedom of religion?

[Echewta]

Rob,

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/mon-august-16-2010-emma-thompson

Here is the entire clip so you can see why I quoted the playground comparison.

So while some people and those in politics who always need a spotlight jump up and down in outrage...

The Zadroga Bill fails. More political fighting about that while those who stood up and helped still suffer.

There is still a big hole in the ground.

etc...

[Burnout18]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100818/pl_nm/us_usa_mosque

[cosmo105]

OKAY THEN IT STILL SHOULDN'T MATTER

[GreenEarthAl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dXFo0UUACM

[RobMoney$]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dXFo0UUACM


Opposing the construction of a mosque or Muslim community center near Ground Zero does not necessarily equal religious intolerance.
For instance, I'm opposed to censorship but I think it's highly innapropriate for an idiot to wear a T-Shirt littered with swears to an event where there will be loads of little kids. Sure the guy has the right to wear the shirt, I just wish he'd practice better judgment about where to wear it.

The same thing with Muslims in this case. I don't wish to deprive them of their right to practice their religion. I just wish they would exercise better judgment about where to practice their religion.

Time, it heals wounds. The atrocity at Ground Zero happened less than a decade ago. Many affected by 9/11 are still grappling with the pain of their loss. If this mosque was being proposed hundreds of years from now I'd undoubtedly be for it. Hell, I'd probably be for it a decade from now. Many New Yorkers still have feelings of anguish now, though, and I don't find that unreasonable. So why not just wait a bit?
Time heals wounds.


Sicerely,

A Mouth Breather

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Opposing the construction of a mosque or Muslim community center near Ground Zero does not necessarily equal religious intolerance.
For instance, I'm opposed to censorship but I think it's highly innapropriate for an idiot to wear a T-Shirt littered with swears to an event where there will be loads of little kids. Sure the guy has the right to wear the shirt, I just wish he'd practice better judgment about where to wear it.

The same thing with Muslims in this case. I don't wish to deprive them of their right to practice their religion. I just wish they would exercise better judgment about where to practice their religion.

Time, it heals wounds. The atrocity at Ground Zero happened less than a decade ago. Many affected by 9/11 are still grappling with the pain of their loss. If this mosque was being proposed hundreds of years from now I'd undoubtedly be for it. Hell, I'd probably be for it a decade from now. Many New Yorkers still have feelings of anguish now, though, and I don't find that unreasonable. So why not just wait a bit?
Time heals wounds.


Sicerely,

A Mouth Breather

First of all, not all 911 survivors and families are opposed to the community center/mosque (which is 2 blocks from ground zero.) Politicians and talking heads from biased media outlets don't get to speak for all 9-11 victims as if they're a homogeneous group.

Second, it's understandable that some DIRECT VICTIMS of 9-11 illogically tie the entire Islamic faith to these torrorists, even though it's not logical. Those people get a pass for have illogical fears. We don't stop society for them, but when they voice their opinions we don't tell them they're idiots. It is logical for these people to have such illogical fears. You know, people who get attacked by dogs get very upset when dogs go by their house BUT we don't crack down on dogs and create "no dog zones." That would be insane. The thing with this "mosque at ground zero" is, you have people with no tie to 9-11 victims whatsoever who are acting like the sky is falling. Sarah Palin was nowhere near 911. So what's her excuse for her irrational fear of Islam? Or is it that she's really not offended at all and just wants to capitalize off of the debate? In any event, we should not re-shape our society to cater to the illogical sensitivities of victims. We definately shouldn't reshape our society to cater to the political hunger of assholes who capitalize off of victims' irrational fears.

Also, there are still planes flying over NYC. Isn't that insensitive? Why aren't the talking heads complaining about that? Shouldn't we outlaw planes in New York? How about going out and yelling at people who drive white vans near the World Trade Center site? Don't people know a white van was used to bomb the Center?! How insensitive to the victims! Well, I guess there's no political advantage to attacking planes and vans. When you get to Muslims though, that has all types of political capital!

The reason this topic is in the news is becuase its a devisive issue that can sway political advantage. I turn on the TV this moring and its like "MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO!!! Blah blah, and oh yeah, half of Pakistan is underwater. Now back to that mosque Dan. . ." 18% of Americans think Obama is a Muslim. Why not ban the President from going to New York? Fuck, why not ban all people of color from New York? Why not ban all democrats from New York too? They do tend to support that mulim center! We wouldn't want to upset the 9-11 victims! In fact, we can't have any more black or democratic presidents, it would be far too horrible for the 9-11 victims to bear!

To sum up, associating the entire Islamic faith with these terrorists is illogical, period. If they were opening a Terrorism Club at or near ground zero I would be like 'NO WAY! FUCK THAT!! YOU WILL NOT OPEN A FUCKING TERRORISM CLUB NEXT TO THAT SPOT!!!!!" But this isn't a terrorism club. It's a religious community center.

[RobMoney$]

LOL@ a terrorism club...

I can see it now, in a few years I'm going to take a trip to Ground Zero with my family. And there, directly in front of me (I won't be able to miss it) will be the "ISLAMIC 9/11 CELEBRATION CENTER", a middle-eastern style building complete with minarets, and a sign on the front in both English and Arabic that reads:
"We sure kicked your asses that time!"

As I enter the building I will see a film, running constantly, of the twin towers blowing up, with a laugh track, and a group of Arab children constantly applauding.
Since I am not Muslim myself I will be part of the guided tour for non-muslims - an Imam will tell us that we can live in peace with the one true religion, so long as we acknowledge our subservience "As in Cordoba!" We will visit room after room where Muslims are praying, as well as manufacturing plastic explosive and strapping it on to themselves. And swimming in the pool filled with the blood of infidels, of course.
When the tour is over, we will all be required to shout "Death to the infidel!" before we're allowed to leave.

[RobMoney$]

And now I've seen it all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaQBrTROj2w

[Sir SkratchaLot]

And now I've seen it all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaQBrTROj2w

That is fucking awesome! Almost as good as the Antwone Dodson video. I mean, if you watch that, and still want to stop the mosque at ground zero then you have very strong willpower or are very very stupid.

[Echewta]

We have way to much time on our hands...

[yeahwho]

What are the physical boundaries of ground zero? It is 1/10th of a mile from the the actual World Trade Center site. That's where the planned construction will be.

Not being sarcastic just trying to figure out what is the line that should be drawn before deciding where to build a Muslim Mosque. 2/10ths of a mile? Is it OK to build a Mosque at that location if another opposing view of religion gets equal billing across the street closer to ground zero?

This is Twilight Zone territory. What is the border between bigotry and the constitution. How long can we keep the hatred fueled up? They want to build a Mosque in NYC while we bomb them back into the stone ages in their land.

[RobMoney$]

I'm fine with the Mosque at Ground Zero, or 2 blocks away from it.


As long as they're cool with a 9-11 Memorial in Mecca.

[RobMoney$]

Not being sarcastic just trying to figure out what is the line that should be drawn before deciding where to build a Muslim Mosque. 2/10ths of a mile?

Standard a 10-block buffer.
But then if someone builds a mosque near the buffer, it's like they're thumbing their noses at the buffer, so there should be an additional 10-block buffer to prevent that.

[EN[i]GMA]

And now I've seen it all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaQBrTROj2w

Oh shit, that's the jam!

[Michelle*s_Farm]

As long as they're cool with a 9-11 Memorial in Mecca.

that is funny -- i think your quote could help keep a smile on my
face all day long.

[kaiser soze]

I'm fine with the Mosque at Ground Zero, or 2 blocks away from it.

As long as they're cool with a 9-11 Memorial in Mecca.

Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, duh! Everyone knows they didn't contribute to 9/11

We should build the memorial in Iraq!

:rolleyes:

[kaiser soze]

ah yes, the best behavior for hallowed ground - I'm sure they honored the dead by acting out in hate just as the 9/11 terrorists did.

I wish I knew why these people were verbally attacking the one man, looks like amoeba minded mob rule and a bunch of racists to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwaNRWMN-F4&feature=player_embedded

[travesty]

If you own the building...do what you want as long as it does not break any zoning codes or is in any other way illegal. That's pretty much the how it works right? If you don't like it.... buy the land yourself and do something else with it or buy the building next to it and put a fundmentalist Christian "Holy Crusades" church in it. Put a fucking synagogue on both sides of it if you really want to get them to reconsider.

I think a "mosque" (allegedly) near gorund zero is in bad taste...but that's kinda what we are all about in America. We need to protect people's rights to have bad taste, to piss us off and to thumb their noses at others as long as it's within the law. Don't like that either? Change the law, otherwise build your own mosque and shut the fuck up. That's how I see it. Pisses me off when people try and legislate manners and morality. In my opinion this is nothing more than manufactured outrage by the Republicans in an attempt to exhume 9-11 fears going into the elections. Any real conservative would support the property owner's rights to do with the property as he pleases regardless of "public sentiment".

[kaiser soze]

damn straight, enough with using 9/11 as a political crutch (n)

That is the most offensive act against the victims and survivors undoubtedly.

I believe strip joints near the site are in bad taste - how come nobody in the "family values" party are bitching about those?

[travesty]

I believe strip joints near the site are in bad taste - how come nobody in the "family values" party are bitching about those?

Because titties don't blow up Americans....Americans blow up their titties!:eek:
Sorry, couldn't help it.

[Rock]

To top it all off, the fit is probably gonna hit the shan on Sept 11th this year for the Muslim community. The end of Ramadan (based on the lunar calendar) ends on Sept 9th or 10th. The celebration for the end of Ramadan (think the Muslim version of Christmas) falls on the day after the end of Ramadan...Sept 10th or 11th. So there is going to be the possibility of a Muslim celebration on Sept 11th. Thats gonna be a mess.

Most people don't know that the Islamic Calendar is lunar based and Jim Bob and Mary Sue are going to think that its a "We flew planes into the twin towers" celebration.

[travesty]

Most people don't know that the Islamic Calendar is lunar based

So it's safe to say that Muslims are lunatics? Just asking.

[Burnout18]

So it's safe to say that Muslims are lunatics? Just asking.

ayoooooooooooooo we have a winner

[Rock]

So it's safe to say that Muslims are lunatics? Just asking.

I think it has something to do with the moon's magnetic field.

[kaiser soze]

for the ignorami in the room

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/24/fox-stewart-alwaleed/

by the way, what is the plural form of ignoramus?

[RobMoney$]

Liberals vigorously supporting Anti Christian-American platforms.

SHOCKING!

[yeahwho]

The Trinity Church, of which St. Paul's Chapel is a part of....

Let this worker from the Church speak (http://community.nytimes.com/comments/opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/real-americans-please-stand-up/?permid=25#comment25) (response to an article by Dick Cavett Real Americans, Please Stand Up (http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/real-americans-please-stand-up/?scp=1&sq=Real%20Americans,%20Please%20Stand%20Up&st=cse)) and the Churches own website (http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/news/blogs/in-the-moment) have no ambivalence whatsoever towards this community center mosque. It occurs to me that NYC is not going to be threatened or living in fear of the proposed community center/mosque.

This is the United States of America. We don't need permission to be free.

[kaiser soze]

Liberals vigorously supporting Anti Christian-American platforms.

SHOCKING!

yeah because Christ was a bigot :rolleyes:

I guarantee he would be SHOCKED at all the hate consuming the religion named after him.

[RobMoney$]

This is the United States of America. We don't need permission to be free.



Yes, because everyone is free to build anything, anywhere they want.
I believe that is the 27th ammendment, no?

[yeahwho]

I'm not too sure what you mean.
The actual people who lived there at ground zero are not as ambivalent or negative as those who decided to speak out against the center. It's only as big a deal as you want to make it, I'm pretty sure New Yorkers will be able to handle themselves just fine.

What happened to Newt? (http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2010/08/21/newt-gingrich-declines-appearance-at-911-protest-over-nyc-mosque/)

[Bob]

charlie brooker (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque)

Things seem awfully heated in America right now; so heated you could probably toast a marshmallow by jabbing it on a stick and holding it toward the Atlantic. Millions are hopping mad over the news that a bunch of triumphalist Muslim extremists are about to build a "victory mosque" slap bang in the middle of Ground Zero.

The planned "ultra-mosque" will be a staggering 5,600ft tall – more than five times higher than the tallest building on Earth – and will be capped with an immense dome of highly-polished solid gold, carefully positioned to bounce sunlight directly toward the pavement, where it will blind pedestrians and fry small dogs. The main structure will be delimited by 600 minarets, each shaped like an upraised middle finger, and housing a powerful amplifier: when synchronised, their combined sonic might will be capable of relaying the muezzin's call to prayer at such deafening volume, it will be clearly audible in the Afghan mountains, where thousands of terrorists are poised to celebrate by running around with scarves over their faces, firing AK-47s into the sky and yelling whatever the foreign word for "victory" is.

[kaiser soze]

Fighting this Center/Mosque is not the only thing people are doing

http://www.worldcorrespondents.com/armed-group-of-christian-conservatives-to-protect-church-during-burning-of-quran/889096

The Christian conservative organization Right Wing Extreme has offered its support and protection for the International Burn a Quran day.

Right Wing Extreme was founded in April of 2009 after the Department of Homeland Security’s report titled Right Wing Extremism.

http://manhattan.ny1.com/content/top_stories/124338/police--cab-driver-stabbed-by-passenger-who-asked--are-you-muslim

Police say the passenger asked the driver, "Are you Muslim?" When the driver said yes the passenger pulled a knife and slashed him in the throat, arm and lip.

There are many enemies of these people - blacks, women, illegal immigrants, homosexuals, scientists, doctors...and now muslims

How the fuck are they in any way shape or form Christians?

Can we call them for what they are - NAZIs

My impression is this - Provocation for another terrorist attack, these people want one so badly while Obama is in office.

[Burnout18]

waaaaahhhh our religion is better than yours.

You read shit like this and you realize, if we didnt have the economic strength and wealth that we (still) have in this nation we would be no different then the sumbags who stone homosexuals in third world countries.

[RobMoney$]

waaaaahhhh our religion is better than yours.

You read shit like this and you realize, if we didnt have the economic strength and wealth that we (still) have in this nation we would be no different then the sumbags who stone homosexuals in third world countries.


LOL.
But Muslims ARE the ones who stone homosexuals in third world countries.

[kaiser soze]

....and only muslims harm or kill gay people :rolleyes:

Here, pull your head out of the sand and check out these cases committed in the good ol' US of A!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people#USA

[Echewta]

How about nothing religious around Ground Zero for a 20 block radius? Hurray! Everyone is happy :D

[Whatitis]

....and only muslims harm or kill gay people :rolleyes:

Here, pull your head out of the sand and check out these cases committed in the good ol' US of A!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people#USA

But there's a BIG difference between individual violence against gays and countries enforcing violence against gays through Islamic laws.

[Bob]

technically i think the bible says you're supposed to put them to death too but luckily christianity advanced to a point where no government pays attention to that line

[kaiser soze]

But there's a BIG difference between individual acts against gays and countries enforcing Islamic laws against gays.

Please do tell - Seeing that the persecution and threat and the results from the acts are no different.

So you're saying that because some people do it, all of them do. If that is the case - All cops are murderers, All whites are Klan members, All Catholics are pedophiles...etc. etc. One broad brush stroke will solve the problem.

The cases do vary in different Muslim countries, communities, and jurisdictions. Some judges do practice Sharia law while others do not. Just like in the States - some judges place heavier penalties than others for the same crimes in different jurisdictions.

Please also remember that one of the United States closest Muslim allies has some of the harshest penalties and you don't hear the conservi-tards bitching about that now do we?

But it's ok if it happens over there, and it rarely happens over here so what is the concern?

Now don't confuse this with condoning these heinous acts in the name of religion. I have always been against this kind of brutal theocratic rule - regardless of who is or isn't our allie. I am of the sound belief religion should NEVER play a part in legal prosecution - but I also believe that if people are so invested in the positive and enlightened elements of their faith - persecution should never be an option.

[Whatitis]

So you're saying that because some people do it, all of them do. If that is the case - All cops are murderers, All whites are Klan members, All Catholics are pedophiles...etc. etc. One broad brush stroke will solve the problem.

No, that just too Kaiser for me to do.

Of course violence against anyone in any form at any level is wrong. You're such a spinner.

[kaiser soze]

spinning or not - it's a shame to see people acting like assholes on "Hallowed Ground", I mean come on a little bit of respect please!

You would think the proud people of a nation which supposedly upholds it's existence on the very principles of Liberty and Freedom for All would provide a grand example for the nations following in it's footsteps.

Please rename the Freedom Tower because that is what it is not.

[travesty]

It's so amusing to see Liberals defending a religion. Am I in bizarro land again? Since when do liberals ever defend a religion from attack, ever? Yet somehow they are all jumping on the bandwagon to defend Islam. What gives? Many on this board will lambaste Christians as ignorant retards ( yes...retards) but are now willing to dive in front of the bus to protect the Muslim people from ridicule by saying that the hateful and oppresive sharia laws dictated by the religion are praticed by just a few "bad apples". Did Liberals give Catholics the same defense when the Pope virtually sanctioned child sex abuse amongst the clergy? Did they give Mormons the same defense when they supported Prop 8 in CA? Do they give Israel the same defense regarding the Gaza Strip? Why not? Why the double standard? What is it about Islam that is worth abandoning your derision of all thing religious and taking up in defense of this one? It seems unsurpirsingly hypocritical fo the left. Something doesn't smell right (or left). Are all of you defending Islam just because the Republicans are bashing it?:rolleyes:

[Echewta]

Do you think anyone here would be against a Catholic church from building anywhere? No. Should the Catholic church take its lumps for hiding child abusers? Yes. Are all Catholics to blame? No.

Do you think anyone here would be against a Mormon church from building anywhere? No. Should the Mormon's in Utah who funded the passage of Prop 8 in another state take lumps for being against gay marriage? Yes. Does that mean all Mormons are heartless and hateful? No.

So, a mosque or prayer building or place of islam is wanting to build near ground zero. Should they be able to? Yes. Were the terrorist who crashed planes into the Twin Towers muslim? Yes. Does that mean all muslims are terrorist? No.

Apples, oranges, grapes...

[kaiser soze]

Islam today, Hinduism tomorrow, Judaism next week, and Christianity next month.

This is just the flavor of the week hate conservatives seem to find themselves tasting time and time again. Why do liberals defend homosexuals or women's rights, the environment or the rights of citizens abused by law enforcement?

Because that is what BRAVE people do.

Just as much it is a trend for people to find something to hate - it is the duty of true citizens who believe in the rights of all protected by the Constitution of the United States to keep those rights protected for it not - we might as well call ourselves NAZIs

I don't hate Christians, I am one myself. My sister and her family are Catholics and I love them, my Aunt is a married lesbian and I love her and her spouse, my close friend had an abortion and I love her, my coworker is a Muslim and I respect his faith.

Tolerance is a difficult task for many - If people in this country spite it then they become what they supposedly hate.

[kaiser soze]

p.s.

I forgot the hate for illegals as well.

My aunt and her partner "adopted" a woman from Guatemala and a man from Mexico who were both here "illegally" - but actually seeking asylum and promise.

They are two of the most sincerest, caring, loving, hardworking individuals I know and I hope one day they will get their wish and become citizens of this country because this country needs them.

[travesty]

Then quit being such a pussy and stand up and denounce Islam for it's intolerable stances on women's rights and homosexuals. You can't have it both ways if you're going to be "BRAVE". Islam has done far more harm to women and homosexuals that Republicans ever have yet still it get's your "tolerance" while the other draws your ire. Why? Selective Tolerance?

[kaiser soze]

I guess you haven't read my previous posts in this thread - I said I do not condone the brutal theocratic rule of any religion. I have also said maybe the world would be better off if religion was kept to a personal experience as everyone takes from it what they like.

Trust me travesty - I have studied and have learned of the horrors women, children, and innocent men are subjected to in the name of many religions and this includes MUSLIMS. And I do denounce the disgusting actions of all individuals and organizations who claim a religious right to violate another person's rights and life.

I and nobody on here is defending the monsters hiding behind Islam so please pull that out of your head. Talk about spinning.

[Bob]

What is it about Islam that is worth abandoning your derision of all thing religious and taking up in defense of this one? It seems unsurpirsingly hypocritical fo the left. Something doesn't smell right (or left). Are all of you defending Islam just because the Republicans are bashing it?:rolleyes:

i can only speak for myself but i'm defending them here because in reference to the NYC community center (or ground zero neo-mecca depending on who you ask) they aren't doing anything wrong and i suspect that some of their louder opponents are lumping them in with terrorists and fueling the crazy fires that make religion such a touchy subject to begin with

if they were trying to set up a ground zero sharia kiosk where people could bring thieves to get their hands cut off and have their wives stoned for being raped then i'd say "no! i am against that!" but they aren't, i don't think

[travesty]

Kaiser- respect bro. I didn't mean to get all a-hole on you I'm just thoroughly annoyed that this whole thing has become a religious issue instead of a simple property rights issue. Both sides seem insanely hypocritical about the whole thing to me. For the life of me I can't figure out why the same Dems who think it's OK keep bars and strip clubs away from school zones, and seize private land in the name of "emminent domain" think this is just fine AND the Republicans who normally champion property rights and religious freedom at all costs don't think this is alright. The whole thing is not making sense to me at all. It just reinforces to me that both major political parties in this country sell their souls on a daily basis just to get their name mentioned in a talking point.

Bob- (y)

[Bob]

on the lighter side, the daily show's coverage of fox news' coverage of this has been pretty phenomenal

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-19-2010/extremist-makeover---homeland-edition jon parodies fox news' attempt to "follow the money trail" of the mosque by (jokingly!) linking fox news to terrorists via alwaleed bin talal who owns 7% of the network, in an effort to show that with a notecard and a highlighter you can make anyone look like they have dealings with terrorists when in reality they pretty obviously probably don't

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-23-2010/the-parent-company-trap less than one week later fox news straight-facedly tries to link the mosque's imam to terrorists via the very same alwaleed bin talal who owns 7% of their network (without mentioning him by name of course)

and more people watch them than any other news network in the country. stunning.

[yeahwho]

I'm floored, those Jon Stewart clips point out the stupidity with a dick and jane simplicity, fear fear fear get your fear on.

[HAL 9000]

It's so amusing to see Liberals defending a religion. Am I in bizarro land again? Since when do liberals ever defend a religion from attack, ever? Yet somehow they are all jumping on the bandwagon to defend Islam. What gives? Many on this board will lambaste Christians as ignorant retards ( yes...retards) but are now willing to dive in front of the bus to protect the Muslim people from ridicule by saying that the hateful and oppresive sharia laws dictated by the religion are praticed by just a few "bad apples". Did Liberals give Catholics the same defense when the Pope virtually sanctioned child sex abuse amongst the clergy? Did they give Mormons the same defense when they supported Prop 8 in CA? Do they give Israel the same defense regarding the Gaza Strip? Why not? Why the double standard? What is it about Islam that is worth abandoning your derision of all thing religious and taking up in defense of this one? It seems unsurpirsingly hypocritical fo the left. Something doesn't smell right (or left). Are all of you defending Islam just because the Republicans are bashing it?:rolleyes:

You raise an interesting point (possibly the only point of interest in this whole ridiculous charade).

I don’t want people’s beliefs to be prescribed and I don’t want churches or religions outlawed. I hope for a day where the members of the human race are sufficiently enlightened to reject religion independently and individually. In the meantime, I can deride and ridicule silly religious beliefs if I deem it appropriate, but I would never want someone denied the right to believe nonsense.

So yes, Islam should be subject to ridicule (and it is from me), but as long as it is practiced without hurting others, then I would not want to see someone put silly restrictions on the practice of worship, as appears to be happening here.

It is the harm to others which is the difference between this case and the others mentioned. When the Catholic church covers up sexual abuse by priests, children get raped, when certain Christians’ deny their children much needed medical attention, those children die, when the Mormons support Prop 8, people get discriminated against, when Jews and Muslims blow each other up in the middle east because of a dispute over imaginary friends and magic books, then there is real harm and I support action to prevent it. I would hope that I would consistently oppose cases of humans being harmed by delusion.

As long as this mosque is not actually being built to launch a further terrorist attack and is just a mosque then I don’t see the harm.

[Burnout18]

It's so amusing to see Liberals defending a religion. Am I in bizarro land again? Since when do liberals ever defend a religion from attack, ever? Yet somehow they are all jumping on the bandwagon to defend Islam. What gives? Many on this board will lambaste Christians as ignorant retards ( yes...retards) but are now willing to dive in front of the bus to protect the Muslim people from ridicule by saying that the hateful and oppresive sharia laws dictated by the religion are praticed by just a few "bad apples"...

Yea well i think there is a freedom of religion here in the USA and we should respect that, as long as it is a legit religion, so lets build the mosque.

However the flip side to that is it is disgusting how women and homosexuals are treated in 3rd world muslim countries. So bringing it back to mr. gutfeld putting a gay bar near the "community center where they will pray," Why not? Why can't he put a gay bar next door? People what the us to be tolerant, lets see how tolerant the muslims will be of the gay bar.

[Burnout18]

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/05/muslims_infiltrate_pentagon

Muslim prayer center in the pentagon... one of the buildings attacked on 9-11.

I want someone who opposes the mosque @ ground zero how that is somewhat insensitive but the the prayer center in the pentagon isn't.

[kaiser soze]

yeah, no outrage over that huh?

Where was the outrage when

bush stated he wasn't concerned about Bin Laden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o)

or

Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42oejmpkgw)

or

Reagan dedicating the Space Shuttle Columbia to the soon to be Taliban (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipszh14WPFY).

and what about this fool?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38863919/ns/us_news-life

[Bob]

yeah, no outrage over that huh?

Where was the outrage when

bush stated he wasn't concerned about Bin Laden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o)

or

Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42oejmpkgw)

or

Reagan dedicating the Space Shuttle Columbia to the soon to be Taliban (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipszh14WPFY).

and what about this fool?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38863919/ns/us_news-life

you're just saying words now

[yeahwho]

Building a Nation of Know-Nothings (http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/building-a-nation-of-know-nothings/?src=me&ref=general)

[saz]

(y)

Everyone bitching about this mosque makes America look bad. It's not like a terrorist traing camp is being put there. Putting a mosque there would really show the tolerance that America has with improving relations with Islamics.


Am I the only one who finds it completely insane that the party who wants less government intervention is in a political debate over whether the muslims should be "allowed" to put a building there. Shouldn't tea party people be saying, "Well, the developer paid for the space, the government has no right to interfere." You watch, the next thing is there will be some twisted crazy argument on how the government is "subsidizing" the mosque in some round about way. Tie it in with a little of the ol' "Obamah is a Muslim" and "he's not even American born" and that will get people frothing at the mouth. The argument doesn't have to be based in reality, it just has to push emotional buttons and sway public opinion.





It's so amusing to see Liberals defending a religion. Am I in bizarro land again? Since when do liberals ever defend a religion from attack, ever? Yet somehow they are all jumping on the bandwagon to defend Islam. What gives? Many on this board will lambaste Christians as ignorant retards ( yes...retards) but are now willing to dive in front of the bus to protect the Muslim people from ridicule by saying that the hateful and oppresive sharia laws dictated by the religion are praticed by just a few "bad apples". Did Liberals give Catholics the same defense when the Pope virtually sanctioned child sex abuse amongst the clergy? Did they give Mormons the same defense when they supported Prop 8 in CA? Do they give Israel the same defense regarding the Gaza Strip? Why not? Why the double standard? What is it about Islam that is worth abandoning your derision of all thing religious and taking up in defense of this one? It seems unsurpirsingly hypocritical fo the left. Something doesn't smell right (or left). Are all of you defending Islam just because the Republicans are bashing it?:rolleyes:

are all irish catholics and protestants terrorists because of the ira and protestant militant groups? according to the hardcore right-wing tea bagger logic, they are, seeing as they tend to think that all muslims are terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, who want to take over america or whatever. this ignorant and deplorable right-wing viewpoint is playing right into al-qaeda's hands, that america is waging a war against islam in a new crusade.

[travesty]

(y)are all irish catholics and protestants terrorists because of the ira and protestant militant groups? according to the hardcore right-wing tea bagger logic, they are, seeing as they tend to think that all muslims are terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, who want to take over america or whatever. this ignorant and deplorable right-wing viewpoint is playing right into al-qaeda's hands, that america is waging a war against islam in a new crusade.

Exactly, kind of, my point. Neither side's opinion on this makes any freaking sense based on their fundamental beleifs.