Question about Desperado/MCA

[rlhjr]

Please don't attack me, just a question about the lyrics to this song

I know this song has been discussed many times before but I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere...

The "tin-can" versions we have, as I've heard people call them...
During the song for Mike D we get "Mike D is a Desperado"
For Adrock it's "I'm the Desperado"
or (TTL version) "Adrock is the Desperado"

Here's my question: On MCA's part, on the tin-can versions we have, if you amplify up the whispers it doesn't sound like it's saying MCA is a Desperado.
It sounds like it's saying "MCA needs an Enchilada"??


Just curious what others think about this. I'm in the process of mixing the original samples into the song and am stuck on the ending.

On TTL, we never get to hear the ending verses and closing of the song.

I thought the "MCA needs an Enchilada" might make sense considering MCA raps "Order a fajita and a fresh enchilada", close to the end of the song..

[dust monkey]

Sorry I don't know anything about that, I just wish I had the god damn good version of that song in it's full unedited chopped Russell rush lisp entirety.

God damn I've been trying to trade away pretty much everything for 20 years and this is like seriously the only freakin' bboy song I can't have find or weasel my way into having in my collection.

IT IS the Holy Grail.

[Take Drugs]

Its on the Original Ill bootleg. you could probably find it on ebay or something. I found it at my local record shop. sometimes you gotta dig down deep in the record bins.(y)

[rlhjr]

Take Drugs, dust monkey's referring to the full-mixed version, as in the "good version".

The Original Ill version is the "tin-can" version that we all have.

I just really think I'm hearing it say MCA needs an Enchilada instead of MCA is a Desperado.

And I really wish I knew what the sample was for the small guitar riff thingy sound that plays on the TTL version.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Yep it does say Enchillada. The "tin can" version that's circulated now came off of a demo tape of a guy who worked at American recordings. I got the tape back in the 90s from a friend of the dude. I sent out tapes to a handfull of people and they eventually got put on various bootlegs. It's just a rough demo so they're not trying to polish everything and I think they're just screwing around with the Enchillada thing.

I've been thinking about doing the same thing you're doing for over 10 years now. I could never find that guitar sample either.

[rlhjr]

Sir SkratchaLot, I knew about your sourcing but never knew the whole story behind it as to how it leaked out from the guy.
If I remember, you included it with a mixtape, but I always was curious how the guy from American got hold of it.

Yea I was thinking since it's a rough mix, that maybe the MCA part ended up getting changed, but on TTL, you never get to hear that part so I wonder if it got left in.
Most lyric write-ups have it saying MCA is a Desperado, so I was confused as to where they got that from when the only copies of the song say Enchilada.

I've been working on mixing the tin-can version for about a week now, but with my job and personal life, I'm starting to grow tired of it. No matter how nice the few samples I have are mixed in, I can't seem to do much with the vocals. I even tried using the old Cool Edit Pro, and a plug-in for it where you can manipulate vocals to match certain microphones, but no luck....just distortion.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

You're definately going to need a multi-track program like cool edit to pull it off.

I'd leave the demo untouched (except maybe doing the most non-destructive filtering you can, to remove hiss.) If you get too aggressive with tweaking you'll kill what little good sound the demo already has. Less is more with this sort of thing. You'll need to leave the demo alone and try to fit the samples around it by gently eqing out anything that muddies up the demo cut. Definately don't digitally change the speed of the demo. Instead, make sure the samples on your records are all pitched around the demo. Record them at the right pitch to start out with so you don't have to time-stretch anything. If you've never done any mixing or mastering before it's a pretty daunting project to start out with. Its easy to get lack luster results but to get something that sounds anywhere good you have to know what you're doing and you need decent equipment.

[rlhjr]

I agree with less is more. I went in with that train of thought. At first I time stretched the demo to fit parts of the TTL version overlapped on it, but that was more of a curiosity thing just to see what results I'd get.

I really want to use the TTL version only as a reference, and use the demo as is, like your saying, no stretching, match volumes of any samples with the demo and just go from there.

I tried using a crowd snip. from The New Style Instrumental off the Licensed to Ill Show Vinyl, to give it that crowd "ohhh" sound you hear in TTL in the background, but nothing good has come from that.

I really wish I knew what that guitar-riff thingy sound is. I tried to isolate a small section from TTL, but haven't found a part where there's not vocals over it.
I've already got the beat replicated pretty well, and the small samples from The Good and The Bad and Syl Johnson were of course easy to come by.

I haven't touched Cool Edit in a long while. I actually reinstalled it just for this project and am going over all the filters little by little to refresh my memory.
Everyone I've talked to about this, is telling me in the state the demo is in, to not touch the beat, vocals, or volume, and to just mix in any samples I can to "enlighten" the demo, and leave it as is.
Btw, thanks for all your input on this. Appreciated.

[TongueRabbit]

I've already got the beat replicated pretty well, and the small samples from The Good and The Bad and Syl Johnson were of course easy to come by.


What version of Good Bad Ugly have you used? Ennio Morricone's version or Hugo Montenegro's?

[TongueRabbit]

Oh yeah and have you also got that weird 'tick-tock!' noise throughout the song?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bww0bNNipNI

[rlhjr]

Finally got back around to this project....

I quickly upped this to Megaupload because youtube was giving me issues with
uploading.

This isn't finished, great, wonderful, or whatnot....it's just something for those who might be interested in how much I've done so far.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QM1O97FZ

I will get back to this project more over the next few weeks as my work schedule lightens up.
Peace!

[DJ_Skrilla]

Its on the Original Ill bootleg. you could probably find it on ebay or something. I found it at my local record shop. sometimes you gotta dig down deep in the record bins.(y)

Desperado is not on Original Ill. You might be thinking about Scenario.

[rlhjr]

any mature feedback on my progress with Desperado?

I wanted to "re-do" the song from scratch, but then switched to trying to "remaster" it, sorta a mix of both I guess.

I'm open to suggestions and ideas if anyone has anymore to offer.

I'm not expecting a finished product that will blow people away... just trying my
best at doing anything/something to the tin-can version we all have.

[DJ_Skrilla]

any mature feedback on my progress with Desperado?


It sounds good, but the samples sound so much better than the OG version it kinda sticks out. Good work, someday a real version of this will surface. And I will bet you this was recorded the same day as Scenario from Original Ill, which would make sense. I want alchemist to redo a beat like this and do a cover of the song.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

The vocals sound pitched higher than the original to me.

If you haven't already done this, start out with the full version of the tin can Desperado in your multitrack. Make sure that you don't make any alterations to it.

Then pitch all of your samples to that tempo. I'd resample the drums and layer those over the drums that are there. Use your record player to pitch your samples instead of your computer. You'll get better results that way. The Tougher than Leather Version is probably using drum machine instead of a loop from PSK. In fact, it's very possible that both the tin can Scenario and Desperado were recorded over a 909 drum machine recreation of the PSK beat.

Getting the samples to meld with the track is likely a mixing issue.

Once you get things mixed right, if the vocals still sound bad, or you're getting other problems with the original tracks clashing with your samples, then I would do some very selective EQing to see if it helps bring the vocals out. Since the raw version is really just vocals and drums you should be able to leave it and just layer over the drums to fatten them up.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Also, read this, sounds like an 808 rather than a 909.
http://jesseserwer.com/blog/?p=43

[rlhjr]

Thanks for the suggestions Skrilla and SkratchaLot...
Will dedicate some more time again to this project and hopefully return
with something better.
Appreciate the feedback!

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Thanks for the suggestions Skrilla and SkratchaLot...
Will dedicate some more time again to this project and hopefully return
with something better.
Appreciate the feedback!

Just a reminder that you're already ahead because something is better than nothing. You've put more effort into it than anyone else and you've gotten some decent results.

[dust monkey]

I totally agree, thanks for this! I've listened to your version several times now and it will replace versions 1, 2 and 3 as my primary Desperado listening track. You are close...

Add the scratches, the oh ho oh ho, clean up the hiss and echos and pitch inconsistencies, and let that 808 just drag on like the TTL version. I am no music guy technically speaking but I'd like to think I'm a good listener; for what it's worth the vocals appear to be your biggest challenge. But given the little I do know and my experience as a pause tape double deck champion, you can knock this thing outta the park if you keep at it. So thank you!

Also to the LMCA and PYB lossless tracks guys, thank you as well. I think Lee Majors is the best track I've heard from them since the CYH era, at least that's what I thought based on the shitty rip...it is confirmed now though. I think that track has serious potential to blow the fuck out and up if they release a crazy video with it ala SWWant, that shit just rocks and MCA's last verse gives me tingly sensations like Booty does.

Anyway I haven't been excited to hear them return, in fact I was def leaning toward the they are done side and i've been irritated at the lack of any updates which I still call BS on good or bad, but I played Des, LM and PYB several times today and I'm seriously ready, especially after the "mix" comment, so here's hoping that this is the beginning of the next era.