Summer of Obama Recovery has Failed

[valvano]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703946504575469331075476058.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129611785

cash for clunkers is paying off too:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-01/toyota-honda-lead-u-s-car-sales-plunge-as-clunkers-ends-economy-slows.html

[kaiser soze]

The cash for clunkers gig was a success (shit I know a conservative who hates Obama who took advantage of it - talk about having principles!)

They are talking about auto sales this year in comparison!

Toyota sales down probably due to shitloads of recalls

Hyundai makes shitty cars, Kia are waaay overpriced. Nissan prices have jumped since introducing the Versa, knocking the Sentra and Altima up in "class", and Honda has probably lost customers to their growing competitors (Hyundai/Kia)

My guess is also the push for American's to buy American branded cars - with all this hyper-patriotism floating around I wouldn't be surprised.

The market is saturated with millions of brands, new and used, so it's gonna take a hit.

p.s.

Blame greedy Corporations for losing jobs for Americans - They are the ones shipping the work overseas.

[Adam]

Aww, is summer over? :( Its actually nice out right now, best weather that I have seen since June.

[Burnout18]

If corporations won't hire people, who will?

[valvano]

Blame greedy Corporations for losing jobs for Americans - They are the ones shipping the work overseas.


yep, union, govt regulations, health care mandates, greedy trial lawyers, environmental regulations, high taxes, foreign countried being more friendly to businesses....none of that had anything to do with this...:rolleyes:

[Echewta]

I bought a car this year and it wasn't for cash for clunkers. OBAMA WIN AND RECOVERY.

[kaiser soze]

yep, union, govt regulations, health care mandates, greedy trial lawyers, environmental regulations, high taxes, foreign countried being more friendly to businesses....none of that had anything to do with this...:rolleyes:

Hey, if you have problems with these, please move to China

[Sir SkratchaLot]

yep, union, govt regulations, health care mandates, greedy trial lawyers, environmental regulations, high taxes, foreign countried being more friendly to businesses....none of that had anything to do with this...:rolleyes:

Word. Not to mention child labor laws, people wanting compensation for loss of limbs due to poor safety standards, people wanting more money for working more hours! What the fuck? If these selfish assholes would just go back to Communist Russia and China then then America would have tons of jobs for these kids! Right on!

[Whatitis]

The cash for clunkers gig was a success (shit I know a conservative who hates Obama who took advantage of it - talk about having principles!)

For who? The government, big corperations and the guy who had a rusted out 1979 cadillac sitting in his driveway? Mainly. Cash for clunkers killed the used car market effecting thousands of small businesses and also helped raise the prices of used cars effecting millions of people that can't afford a new 20K(at minimum)car. Yes, for some consumers it worked well and it took a few shitty cars off the road but for the economy and the little man it wasn't as much of a success as the government wants us to believe.

[kaiser soze]

I didn't say it was a slamming success, I just said it was a success

and for it's intended purposes it was.

[yeahwho]

You think I'm crazy? I know all of you are crazy.

There is no defending any of these political leaders, the world is being destroyed before our very eyes and the words reform and recovery have the same meaning as "the King is working for our good and God wants us to obey him!" did in 13th century England.

The economic collapse of 2008 did not happen in a vacuum, I along with millions had been asking the same question over and over and over, "how does any economy sustain a population in triple debt?"

Those CEO's and political leaders who co-authored this ponzi scheme should be charged with destroying the planet.

Obama is smarter, more stealthier than Bush. Obama is doing what he said he would do during his campaign, yet all of these reforms and recovery plans so far have only benefited the Corporatist Ruling Class. Which makes him ultimately more dangerous than Bush... because he pulls the wool over his own progressive, liberal contingency.


So yeah, I think your crazy if any of you are thinking the Republicans or the Democrats will ever change this society. I rarely even hear someone mention "Middle Class" or "Made in America" which is exactly what the goal is. So please be quiet and let the media feed you with your speaking points on reform and recovery.

rant scant rant rant rant

[ms.peachy]

Here's a thing I don't understand.

Two years ago, when the economy started really going all crazy and sliding into the shitter, every economist/economic analyst I read in the papers or saw doing the rounds on the tv news was saying things like, "this is going to take a long, long time to recover, there is going to be no easy fix, we are all going to have to face that it is going to take years, not just one or two but seriously, years, whoever is next in office is going to be the president who is going to have to face the fact that they can't wave a magic wand etc etc." I mean, it wasn't a secret, right? So what's up with people going "hey! this is still happening! Why isn't it all sorted yet?"

Oh right I forgot, we all have the attention span of gnats now. Never mind. I think I'll move to China. Oh, wait...

[D_Raay]

Those CEO's and political leaders who co-authored this ponzi scheme should be charged with destroying the planet.

Right on yeahwho, this is the point exactly.

Nothing is done for the people anymore without considering the corporate interests, which is exactly what we were warned about years ago when corporations were first allowed to form (completely unconstitutional and shunned by our founding fathers btw).

The game is rigged the table is tilted, the economy will never right itself until the greedy figures are expelled, and just who exactly is going to do that? It isn't going to be Obama or any other rich figure thrust down our throats by the corporate media.

I don't know what the answer is honestly because it is so far gone the only solutions are unthinkable ones.

Oh and Valvano why the hell are you still on here taking a side and posting all this nonsense? It really matters little and just shows you as very small minded pathetic individual. How anyone can buy into talking points and rah rah go America shit is beyond me.

[kaiser soze]

that is the paradox of valvano

on one hand he is against spending and corporatism and on the other he supports the rich and defends the greedy - where does he stand?

oh yeah - he hates taxes

but yet the middle class will be taxed out the ass to hold up the rich - go figure

[yeahwho]

The framework at which I look at the current economic mess is that neither party is being on the level with us. The democrats had a full majority for over 2 years and blamed bi-partisanship politics... why? The republicans did and still do say NO to every piece of legislation that comes across the table put forth by the Obama administration. In a (wink wink) way to regain power. Because of this fantasy of being hamstrung, your and my family must suffer? It isn't reality, it is a perpetuated myth being presented to a blinded whipped society.

How does any of the above benefit us? Who does it benefit? Start up a mindfuckfest and call it the Tea Party. Pay chronic malcontents such as Rush, Beck, Palin etc. to attack the government daily in front of the whole world. It's easy without any fairness doctrine in place to balance out the vitriol. Like herding sheep.

As if being involved in the Tea Party will ever solve anything to do with obtaining a working wage in your hometown for you and your neighbors. That isn't the point of the Tea Party or FOX news. Nor is it really the point of the democratic underground or MSNBC.

We've become a nation of special interests. The two that jump right in your face if your not obsessed with speaking points are corporate imperialism and national security interests.

Obama is continuing on with the exact same program as his predecessors in making sure the money stays with the casino house.

He came into the Presidency with a sweeping environmental policy, then just a short few months back before the BP explosion he was mimicking Sarah Palin and going all Drill, Baby, Drill. The agenda is the same.

The framework from which I view the current state of affairs may seem crazy if you view it from a conservative or liberal POV. But I know they're crazy, I'm sure of it due to just a minimum of logic.

So until the above state of mind held by democrats and republicans change our planet and the people who live on it will suffer, all due to nothing other than the thinnest line of bullshit ever perpetuated on billions of people at once.

[Dorothy Wood]

I feel very disconnected to the economic depression because I've pretty much always been poor. At this point, I don't think any scheme or incentive is going to help anybody. Except if the government gave everyone like $5,000 each. I could pay some bills off that way and actually start moving money around.

At this point, I think the root of the problem we have in america is blind consumerism. The idea that we have to buy buy buy and make everything "New!" There are too many choices...and those choices don't give us freedom, it takes it away. Say you want to buy a blender...well, you can go and buy a $15 blender at a drugstore that has plastic components and it'll last you a month or so before it goes in the trash. Then you say, "I'll get a nicer one", so you go to Target and have your choice of 8 different kinds of blenders at different prices. 6 of which have plastic components that will break down and end up in a landfill, but the nice ones are $40-100, and you're poor, so you really have to think about whether or not that blender is worth it, or if you'd rather just spend $15 again.

Well, that's stupid. Just make some god damned blenders that work and don't break! then they can all be cheaper and everyone can have a blender!

But that's not what happens...because there's profit in products that break and need to be replaced. which is infuriating to me.

What america should be about: good products, quality work, nice people who are considerate of their fellow citizens, beautiful landscapes

What america's actually about: trash, individualism, inflated profits, compensation that does not suit the work done


What we have is not capitalism, our economy is a game played by a small group of people with no regard for those who can't play it.


what people need to do is turn their backs on corporations that aren't functioning properly and support businesses that create useful and well-made products and offer quality services. demand fair prices and reject garbage.


And I still trust Obama for the most part, he can't just turn the game upside down and start over. He needs to inch that shit off the table for the next person to flip. If not, I think I'll just move to Canada.

[yeahwho]

Bob Herbert did an excellent piece in yesterdays NYTimes Of Janitors and Kings (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/04/opinion/04herbert.html?_r=1&hp) but the best part of the Ed/Op was the comment (http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2010/09/04/opinion/04herbert.html?sort=recommended) in which the reader replied, the people can’t rise up until they wise up.

There is a slight glimmer of light on the horizon, but so far no official word that Elizabeth Warren (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2010/09/elizabeth_warre_1.html)may soon be nominated for the head of the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

We'll see, she has some potent enemies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz7ruJw6byQ&NR=1).

[travesty]

So until the above state of mind held by democrats and republicans change our planet and the people who live on it will suffer, all due to nothing other than the thinnest line of bullshit ever perpetuated on billions of people at once.

and yet Yeahwho once said;
Let me repeat this mantra I've been repeating since 2004 on this board,
''this administration and the Republican Congress have presided over the biggest, most reckless deterioration of America's finances in history.''
Please vote for Barack Obama and Joe Biden.

And still will not recant his ass love for Barack Obama. It's hard to admit you were wrong....but it's time.

[yeahwho]

And still will not recant his ass love for Barack Obama. It's hard to admit you were wrong....but it's time.

The above statement makes no sense at all, to opposing statements, one saying I won't and the next saying I did.

I'm hoping I'm wrong about your homo-erotic fantasies but it is becoming increasingly clear you have kinky sexual fantasies that are only eclipsed by your bizarre political fantasies.

I have yet to see you once give any real credit to Obama for not letting this Country spiral into a complete full on depression, which is and has been on the precipice of our lives for the past two years. That would be a fair statement, as in fair to all sides of the economic topic.

[travesty]

I have yet to see you once give any real credit to Obama for not letting this Country spiral into a complete full on depression, which is and has been on the precipice of our lives for the past two years. That would be a fair statement, as in fair to all sides of the economic topic.

Ummm... exactly what has he done that has had any positive effect on the economy? Seems to me he's only made it worse...a lot worse...trillions of dollars worse. So no, he'll not be getting any kudos from me.

[yeahwho]

Like I said before, I'm looking at our economic situation not as an actual democratic or republican issue other than they do the bidding of the ruling class. One of the ways this is being accomplished is by putting on a 3 ring circus complete with a sideshow of fake news outlets and bizarre fringe interest groups.

The current ruling class of corporate imperialism and the national security apparatus are making the decisions and the politicians are doing their bidding, they've wanted control of the middle east for decades now, Bush Sr. gave it a try, then there were sanctions, fly-overs, bombings failed attempts at assassinations (remember Saddam Hussein's multiple look-a-likes?) and then just an outright invasion. This has cost thousands of lives and billions upon billions of dollars, on the surface it seems insane.The ruling class want access to these countries riches and they want them to be a identi-kit to their imperialist capitalist system. Like the the House of Saud who willingly embrace our leer jets and castles.

The health care plan implemented seems to be nothing other in the end than more corporate welfare for the insurance industry.

I've never read the "Audacity of Hope" yet during the election year and currently I do understand the "Banality of Reality" and my only hope is our nation rejects this group of corporatist imperialist that have somehow decided to outsource every good intention of our founding fathers to pervert the planet and easily manipulate it's population. It is on. How late we are in changing the current path is the only question, I have no doubt in my mind dangerously late at figuring the damage to all.

The money, the common denominator of all of the carnage and ponzi schemes hatched upon a willing population that blindly, no, obliviously participated in because our politicians said they approved these lending organizations... if the government and the professional lending institution say you are good for this loan and high limit card it's pretty intoxicating to think yeah "I'm on my way now".

It's rigged, it's a fixed game (http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html), the winners are already decided and they have some very scary plans for those who just would like to have a job and a house.

[travesty]

Don't get me wrong bro, I'm thrilled you are coming around to seeing that Democrat or Republican, doesn't make a difference....at the end of the day...they don't fucking care about you, me or anyone outside their elitist circles.

I was just asking if you had reconsidered the crazy mad support for Barry you had (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=84687&highlight=party+election) at one time based on his blatant lies and smooth talking bull shit. It sounds like you are finally seeing through his facade so I was just asking if you are ready to admit that you no longer support him. Just curious.

And I'm still waiting to hear what you think he has done to improve the economy since he has been in office.

[D_Raay]

What we have is not capitalism, our economy is a game played by a small group of people with no regard for those who can't play it.

Yep, truer words were never spoken, er... written in this case.

There is no defending any of these political leaders, the world is being destroyed before our very eyes and the words reform and recovery have the same meaning as "the King is working for our good and God wants us to obey him!" did in 13th century England.
Trav, did you not see this that yeahwho wrote? Just curious because it seems as if you are goading him.
Maybe he HAS seen the light recently, the veil that they all use isn't exactly transparent, it's more like the lead paint of bullshit. No reason to chide him now for being wrong before though, that's just mean spirited. A lot of people were wrong, or maybe just hoping that , you know, maybe all that hope stuff may actually be real this time. I mean the guy is not exactly your typical candidate on the surface, and coming in the heels of W would make anyone look like the saviour of the country.

[kaiser soze]

I still believe Obama had and still has some good intentions, but he was dropped on a snowball that is still rolling swiftly down a hill. This was quite the mess prior to his arrival but no conservative/republican will address that fact. Yes Obama is now president and everyone will say he inherited the economy, the wars, the U.S. reputation abroad and guess what - we are right he Inherited it - holding some flame to the fire that this mess was real before he showed up for the party. He is still to blame to adding the mess, don't get me wrong - he's fueling the fire of his opponents by propping up the mess he walked into.

There is no such thing as corporate honor - Corporations don't givafuck about the U.S. nor it's citizens as proven by Haliburton and Blackwater's recent or soon to be exoduses to other countries (the UAE?!) after sucking millions from the U.S. taxpayer in the name of whatever they tagged their purposes in the Iraq and Afghanistan.

but I'm curious - if people want small government and are sOoOo protective of this great nation, why do they suck the dick of large international corporations?

Shouldn't people PROTECT This nation from all enemies foreign and domestic? Shouldn't the assholes who were behind the Gulf Oil Mess be raked over coals by now? If the gov't is in cahoots with these corporations why is it the government (and usually the one you didn't vote in) held solely responsible?

I don't get it - less regulation, less taxes, less responsibility to the citizens of a nation and you get less than 3rd world conditions - is this what the "patriots" want?

Anyone even know what BP has done to Nigeria? Continue to think like that and this can become us! (and more than likely will within a century)

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/africa/east/BP-Oil-Spill-Brings-New-Attention-to-Nigerias-Many-Spills-96105514.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/30/oil-spills-nigeria-niger-delta-shell

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/14/more-oil-spilled-in.html

http://www.theroot.com/buzz/yearly-oil-spills-nigeria-top-bp-oil-disaster

[yeahwho]

Like I've mentioned before in regards to Obama, we have been on the precipice of a major depression for over two years, things are really ugly now yet Obama has kept this boat afloat. He's bailing water like crazy. That is what he has done. Will it work? We'll see.

The ramblings of my support or non-support of Barack Obama are an obsession that travesty unfurls because I do not agree with his politics, therefore I must be gay and having sex with Obama. If you scroll up you'll read this declaration where he describes me having a sexual act with the POTUS. travesty also claims that I have been repeating a mantra about Obama since 2004.

And still will not recant his ass love for Barack Obama. It's hard to admit you were wrong....but it's time. (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1742211&postcount=18)

That 2004 statement would be problematic only because I never actually mentioned Obama until 12/18/2007 on the other post that said I would endorse Obama, like the majority of Americans eventually did. And if you read my endorsement using comprehension skills I think you will realize my reasons were not butt sex.

I'm not ashamed of my participation in the political process nor am I going to cave into some sort of cyber bully delinquency and say that Obama is a huge mistake. He was the right choice between the candidates at that time and today. And even though it may really rub history revisionists wrong, the mechanisms of our economic mess and the time lines are readily available online, in papers and video archives across earth.

It's pretty lazy thinking to continue on blaming the population that elected your president for the economy. The day Obama took office in January of 2009, epic economical failure had already been massive and irreversible.

How any of this hatred of "All Things Obama" figures into talking about corporate imperialism, the demise of local banks and a aggressive money engulfing national security apparatus I will never know. Why would someone be so inclined to distract a line of thought that exposes the reality of the power elite money handlers in the USA. It's a form of being a bully, a cyber bully. This isn't goading it is a cheap thrill for travesty to think what little content he provides with his vitriol may influence me or anybody. There are at best maybe 10 people who read this section. I've never seen more than 3, perhaps 4 people reading the BBMB Political Board.

And that crazy mad support for Barry you had at one time (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=84687&highlight=party+election), am I really crazy mad by making a compromise?

It's kibble for morons and their ilk, next thing you know they'll be telling me he's a foreigner, or a muslim, or a radical, or a socialist, or a nazi, or any sort of distraction to not logically look at our government. Obama is like Bush is like Clinton is Like Carter, Reagan, Nixon, Johnson and beyond. They are like professional sports stars, only they are professional politicians. They are running the country for special interests, each of them with an increasing attachment to the power elite, they occasionally call out a play to placate the masses but the big game is the elite and if you currently have a net worth under a billion dollars, guess what you are a peasant, not the elite. You will be steam-rolled if you get in the way.

Read foreign policy newsletters and reports, look at how the CIA analyzes different events in other countries, then encapsulates what policy changes effect will have on these countries various sections of populous. The CIA will list what the ruling placates, be it the domestic military or keep the farmers from revolting, whatever the other country decision making policies are they always include keeping the status quo of the special interests at the forefront by either placating the masses or the elite... or both which is what Obama is exceptionally good at. So far.

That is to me the proper perspective and criteria by which we should do our news. example; Your not getting a proper working wage today because Microsoft thinks it's cheaper to answer computer questions in India, they turned their back on you the taxpayer, along with all of the professional politicians so they can continue to be the power elite.

So yes I think most people are lazy mentally and challenged logically on why we are where we are today and how come we've been co-opted to a Global Community.

Of course keep in mind I'm from Seattle and we rioted like motherfucker when the WTO came to our town.

Like I said, call me crazy but I think most people have some sort of attachment to an ideological viewpoint that only hinders logic, I think most people including some very close friends are crazy in their political views only because they cling to a single train of thought. which puts us on a road to some very frightening times ahead.

rant rant rant scant rant...

[RobMoney$]

Travesty,

Why do you bother wasting your time with people who continue to deny Obama has any responsibility at all for the current economic disasters of our country?

You're better than this.



For the rest of the responsibility deniers...

For someone who is supposedly so smart, Obama has no grasp of how to create real jobs.
Government spending on infrastructure does nothing to create permanent jobs. It's simply a sugar fix that once it's consumed, it's gone.
Also, the spending on infastructure was what the $800 billion stimulus was supposed to be spent on. It simply ended up being nothing more than a Democratic slush fund used to spend in Democratic districts with no more purpose than to buy votes.
We need real jobs which produce goods which will have a long term demand for. This creates jobs which will still be there long after the government money is gone.
And as stupid as liberals here think I am, Obama must be really fucking stupid because he can't grasp simple economics.
How many trillions are we going to piss away before we get meaningful economic growth?

[kaiser soze]

Obviously rob hasn't been reading our posts and I said it quite some time ago that I'm not impressed with the current state of our economy - unlike the rich who aren't affected by it who many defend, I am affected by it.

wait a minute, why are you bothering?

Didn't you leave this place for good?

Can't keep to your promises like Obama eh?

[kaiser soze]

well I guess there is one thing we all can be thankful for this summer

cheaper gas prices (http://www.seedsofdoubt.com/images/gas-price-monkey.jpg)

:rolleyes:

[valvano]

Hey, if you have problems with these, please move to China

so it sounds like you admit govt actions such as these do force businesses to move overseas?

[kaiser soze]

I won't say it doesn't contribute to it but first and foremost corporate greed takes the lead.

But ya know, people like you love your poison laden drywall and jetfuel baby food, so let's continue outsourcing to the cheapest bidder and see where it goes from there.

Now, if you so love all those "freedoms" corporations deserve and have no complaints of the byproducts they create (massive pollution, poor working conditions, child labor, crappy and poisonous products, low wages) please by all means go join the fun!

we won't miss you!

[Echewta]

Republicans - Spend trillions on war
Democrats - Spend trillions on infrastructure

[travesty]

OR.....

Democrats- Spend trillions on roads and bridges for us to drive on.
Republicans- Spend trillions on wars for oil so our cars can drive on the roads the Democrats spent trillions on.

Which is better :confused: How about electric trains?

[yeahwho]

Neither democrats or republicans have any real loyalty to anyone ideology or mindset. Doesn't Obama strike anyone here as a centrist? Actually he has leanings more towards a blue dog democrat. Currently he is bantering on about infrastructure jobs, yet we have a full blown active military engagement happening in the Middle East. He couldn't of appeased the health care industry anymore than he did with the health care package he's rolling out. I'm terrified he'll try like Bush did to gain legal access to our Social Security $$$. They (http://www.onlinebankingreport.com/resources/100.html) want that money to be subject to risk with all the rest of your money.

The ideals and party lines are just that, in action if you are a professional politician what does that party line really mean besides trying to get the most money pooled together with any possible line of bullshit you can get people to believe. And these people are experts at capturing a demographic.

The democrats and republicans also know who wields the real influence in the world and it isn't them, it's special interests (http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2010&indexType=s). Checkout # 1 , United States Chamber of Commerce and where they stand on issues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Chamber_of_Commerce#On_the_issues). Is that some funky ass bullshit or what?

I need a grease board and a highlighter here, I need a movement, I need, I need, I need something fucking EPIC! 10-10-10 (http://www.colbertrally.com/)

[Echewta]

OR.....

Democrats- Spend trillions on roads and bridges for us to drive on.
Republicans- Spend trillions on wars for oil so our cars can drive on the roads the Democrats spent trillions on.

Which is better :confused: How about electric trains?

Electric trains are too expensive...

[travesty]

Doesn't Obama strike anyone here as a centrist? Actually he has leanings more towards a blue dog democrat. Currently he is bantering on about infrastructure jobs, yet we have a full blown active military engagement happening in the Middle East. He couldn't of appeased the health care industry anymore than he did with the health care package he's rolling out. I'm terrified he'll try like Bush did to gain legal access to our Social Security $$$. They (http://www.onlinebankingreport.com/resources/100.html) want that money to be subject to risk with all the rest of your money.

I gotta garee with you here. Although the guy has an ego that just won't quit, which really annoys me, I think he is actually quite a bit more centered than most give him credit for, including me. While I think his charisma and ego have people beleiving that he really is in charge and he calls all the shots I'm not sure that is true. I think he is getting more comfortable and dare I say competent at doing his job but I think the early days were a VERY steep learning curve where he let a lot of other fuckers push up on him and steer the ship. While he has to own what he has done and said I think we all keep blaming him for the leftist shit he's done when really it's Pelosi and Reid (at the hands of the lobbyists) who create(d) most of the shitty legislation that has him in hot water. Hopfully he'll quit letting them push him around and start acting like the boss.