Clinton vs. Sanders

[yeahwho]

Obama calls in Clinton (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/bill-clinton-holds-court-in-impromptu-white-house-news-conference/?hp) while Sanders Rails Against Tax Bill — For Hours and Hours (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/sanders-rails-against-tax-bill-for-hours-and-hours/?hp)


Bernie Sanders is the conscience of our nation right now.

[valvano]

i thought obama was the messiah and the smartest man ever, yet here he is having to get a former president to clean up his mess......

makes his presidency look real good to the rest of the world....

of course I am sure the NAACP is happy, usually they accuse white's of using blacks to clean up their mess, but this time its a white guy cleaning up a black guy's mess :D

[yeahwho]

i thought obama was the messiah and the smartest man ever, yet here he is having to get a former president to clean up his mess......

makes his presidency look real good to the rest of the world....

of course I am sure the NAACP is happy, usually they accuse white's of using blacks to clean up their mess, but this time its a white guy cleaning up a black guy's mess :D

I'm only quoting this because I want savor the militant incomprehension that the right wing spouts. For all of the self-righteous left wing ramblings on here, nothing comes close to the total "idiocy" of that reply.

[valvano]

and bill clinton spoke for an hour with no teleprompter, yet obama has never given a single speach without it, even taking it with him to india

[Bob]

i thought obama was the messiah and the smartest man ever, yet here he is having to get a former president to clean up his mess......

makes his presidency look real good to the rest of the world....

of course I am sure the NAACP is happy, usually they accuse white's of using blacks to clean up their mess, but this time its a white guy cleaning up a black guy's mess :D

there's so much going on in this post, much more than usual

[yeahwho]

Just reading the consensus on this tax cut and have come to my conclusion that the democrats wanted to give the tax cuts to the rich all along. I'm just a guy with a regular income who may get $100 out of this tax cut, like a million other people. But for every million of us there is a person who's going to make $5 million dollars out of this tax cut. The $100 dollar folks will invest their measly sum in the economy at the consumer level. The $5 million dollar folks will put their money into the markets, which currently are glutted and constipated. They will continue to bind up the markets with this zero sum proven failure of a tax break.

If this were a true democrat leadership with actual political savvy they would of said, "OK, tax cuts for everybody but the super rich" then let them expire the 1st of january as planned. That would of left the republicans fighting for only the super rich.

Oh fuck it. The point is both parties are the same. The democrats found an out. This is the exact same shit. Disparity will increase between rich and poor.

[valvano]

there's so much going on in this post, much more than usual

my experiment failed. i was hoping to get much more of you limp wristed liberals salivating over this but i guess everybody was out last night celebrating the Holiday (not Christmas ) Season.

however, can somebody defend Obama on why he had to have Clinton come help clean up his mess? Can you imagine any other president doing this? Did Johnson call Ike to help him out with Vietnam? Did Carter call Johnson to help with the Iran hostages? Did Reagan call Ford to help him out ?

Obama is a total failure. This is what happens when the media helps to elect a person with zero business , financial, management experience to the oval office.

and as for the tax cuts.....you all forget its the people who earns its money, not the govts. we have a spending problem in DC, not a revenue generating problem.

[saz]

well first and foremost, once again valvano you've proven to all of us that you're a complete and utter racist douchebag, and that you're barely literate. and for fuck's sake, give it up with this petty-ass republican fox news drama queen talking point regarding the teleprompter. it is so ridiculous, petty, superficial and retarded. every president in the modern age has used a teleprompter. so shut the fuck up.

secondly, i can only think of one politician who has come from a business or financial management background who has been fairly successful or competent in governing, mayor bloomberg. everyone else, from george w. bush to meg whitman to carly fiorina et al have been complete and total failures.

it's way too early to write off president obama. but there is no surprise here that he has governed from the centre-right, bending over backwards for the republican party, the rich and wall street. from the get-go i judged obama as a very mediocre republican-lite democrat who would cater to the interests i've already mentioned, and i'm thrilled to see that bernie sanders is leading the charge for the average person, whose needs are not really being addressed thus far. regardless, the bottom line is that obama, like bill clinton, is governing like a moderate republican.

[yeahwho]

Since Obama is promoting Bush tax breaks and this is everything the Republicans want, "why are you calling him a failure"? He supports the Bush tax cuts, he is going with the exact premise you propose, don't you support the Bush Tax cuts?



and as for the tax cuts.....you all forget its the people who earns its money, not the govts. we have a spending problem in DC, not a revenue generating problem.

You are aware that the President of our Country supports the Bush tax cuts being extended aren't you?

[yeahwho]

The Bush tax cuts and the debt we're accruing will soon fall on our future generations plate. While that seems cruel and unconscionable in itself it also amazes me I've elected any leader who accepts this reality, Americas most vulnerable, The Children That Fortune Forgot (http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2010/12/12/opinion/12blowg.html?ref=opinion).

Then those leaders we elected decide to follow through on a failed Bush tax policy that mainly benefits those who are wealthy. I'm not sure if this is the 10th year of a Bush presidency or the 30th year of the Reagan administration.

This is total bullshit, the middle class is going to cease. It will not withstand the future debt. The overwhelming majority of Americans in the future will be the working poor. Two wars, outsourced manufacturing, crumbled infrastructure, tax cuts = more debt and 0 repercussions to a congress who represents corporate America?

What good is going to come from this set of circumstances?

[Bob]

my experiment failed. i was hoping to get much more of you limp wristed liberals salivating over this but i guess everybody was out last night celebrating the Holiday (not Christmas ) Season.


all you have to do is say something moronic and racist and people get upset...we're like puppets on your strings...

[yeahwho]

Chicks really dig moronic racists, they seek them out all over the place. I'm sure valvano's pm box is filling up right now with BBMB females looking for a good time.

[saz]

cbs poll - most oppose gop tax plan (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20024494-503544.html):

53% of americans only want tax cuts extended to households earning less than $250,000, and 14% want all tax cuts to expire. when combined, 67% of americans want tax cuts for the rich to end. meanwhile, only 46% of republicans want tax cuts for the rich extended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcBQdtMWndM

[Sir SkratchaLot]

all you have to do is say something moronic and racist and people get upset...we're like puppets on your strings...

Ha!

[p-branez]

President Obama signs into law on 17 December 2010 the "Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Relief,_Unemployment_Insurance_Reauthorization ,_and_Job_Creation_Act_of_2010)."

To paraphrase Alan Dershowitz, it's a "typical political bill" - both sides (Republicans and Democrats) get a little of what they want and it does very little for average Americans. This is what passes for a "bi-partisan compromise." It doesn't matter which side of the aisle you are on, this bill is garbage. Everyone talking about is trying to finagle their way around mountains of political-economic bullshit.

Did anyone see Vice President Biden on "Meet the Press" this morning? He couldn't answer one question about this bill. But of course, he reminds us, average Americans are too stupid to understand the logic of the bill. Only the economists out there will understand that adding $858 billion to the deficit is perfectly in line with an overall deficit reduction strategy; and only the economists understand how this bill will "grow the economy" and "create jobs."

[yeahwho]

I like the wikipedia description of the "Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010",

The Act centers around a temporary, two-year reprieve from the sunset provisions of the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA) and the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 (JGTRRA), together known as the "Bush tax cuts". Income taxes would have returned to Clinton administration-era rates in 2011 had Congress not passed this law.

I haven't seen "Meet the Press" but that link you've provided from the WSJ is enough to get the gist. I would say Biden falls under the "ignorant arrogant" category with this statement,

"We understand that the message is the American public wants us to cooperate, wants us to work together," Mr. Biden said on NBC's "Meet the Press" on Sunday. Americans "want us to reasonably compromise to move the business of the nation forward," he said.

He really is from another planet. We as a nation are moving forward by continuing with the (Epic Failure) Bush tax cuts. And the republicans have said NO to Obama on every issue no matter how much citizens are in pain. So now the democrats are joining them in a new style of cooperation inflicting that pain. Working together? That is frightening.

Somewhere in Texas there is a guy laughing his ass off with the pure evil genius of having tax cuts expire right smack in the middle of the next presidents tenure.

[p-branez]

Here's the interview (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40739463#40739463), if you are bored for twenty-five minutes and feel like yelling at someone.

Right off the bat Mr. Biden says: "Number one, every econometric model, every basic economist out there says, look, this is going to grow the economy faster next year than it would have. The projections are instead of the economy growing at a -- the GDP growing at a roughly 2.5 percent, some suggest it would grow as high as 4 percent. That means employment. That means more people employed, number one."

Huh?

Ok, Mr. Biden. Number one - when have economists and econometric models ever been right? What about the Washington Consensus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Consensus) that every mainstream economist promoted, to disastrous and harmful results around the world? And what the fuck does growth in a number (GDP) even mean, why are we obsessed with it? Why can't you explain how the economy will grow?

Number two - what about the economists who see through this bullshit?
Jeffrey Miron (Harvard):

"[The payroll tax cut] continues the administration’s obsession with short-term stimulus rather than long-term growth. Temporary tax cuts can make sense from the stimulus perspective, since they shift activity from the future to the present. But this short-term approach generates uncertainty and might reduce employment two years from now, when the tax rate goes back up…"

Diane Lim Rogers (The Concord Coalition) sees through the political gaming:

"It’s the typical pattern we’ve seen for the past several years. “Bipartisan compromise” means both sides get what they want, because deficit financing of these policies seems like the painless way to get out of gridlock. Rather than mutual sacrifice, it is mutual grabbing. We can never manage to “trade off” — we only “pile on.”"

I consider myself a "basic economist" (we all should) and I see this this thing "growing the economy" through short-term consumption (which, by the way, hardly grows our economy because everything we buy is Made in China). Then what? Oh yeah, young people (I'm a young person) will work longer, pay higher taxes, and receive less entitlements for the rest of our lives.


MR. GREGORY: Can you be thought of as being serious about cutting the deficit when 80 - within 80 hours of, of announcing the deficit commission's proposals this administration agrees to add a trillion dollars to the deficit?


VICE PRES. BIDEN: Absolutely, positively. Look what the deficit commission suggested. They suggested we do exactly what we did. They suggested we have a payroll tax. They suggested that we stimulate the economy this year into next year. They suggested that this has no impact on long-term debt because it's for two years. Look, you know this, the only people who are going to agree with me when I say this are the economists listening, left, right and center. In the middle of a recession, where we're just climbing out of it, where the economy-- unemployment is still at 9.7 percent, the idea of raising taxes and reducing...

....Huh? One could go on and on. This guy is literally on a different planet.