Black Swan

[hpdrifter]

Really really good. I suppose the casting of four doll-faced, doe eyed brunettes was inevitable but their similar looks really add to the disorientation. Even an obviously showing her age Barbara Heshey fits with the other three.

Mila Kunis was really good. Surprising to me because she was so stilted and stiff in That 70's Show, but maybe she just suffered by comparison with the charisma of her castmates in that. Never really seen her in anything else except Forgetting Sarah Marshall where I don't remember being super impressed but that was a long time ago.

And praise for Natalie Portman's performance goes without saying. The feeling of pressure and confusion and not really knowing what's real and who you are is hitting close to home.

[NicRN77]

this is another flick that's on my list. everyone I know who's seen it says it's super good!

[saz]

exclusive black swan deleted scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw-zkYiR4eg)

[nodanaonlyzuul]

I loved it. (y)

[cosmo105]

Really enjoyed it. Saw it extremely hung over and nauseous, in the front row, and almost puked multiple times due to motion sickness/emotional trauma. Hell of a film.

[saz]

now that's what i'm talking about (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThK8Dz1F7ag)

[Echewta]

now that's what i'm talking about (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThK8Dz1F7ag)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znDRrf7VkCE&feature=related

[banzai]

This is definitely on my must see list.

[BBboy20]

spoilers
The one movie that can claim that they did a (literal) swan song.

[Dorothy Wood]

during and after the movie, I thought it was pretty boring, and I could really tell that it was made by men...not because of the lesbo stuff, just because I could tell it was written from a man's perspective.

The acting was great. I just thought the story...just kinda wasn't there. and I figured out what was going to happen before it happened. and I really wish I didn't know that Natalie Portman was knocked up by her dance partner. took me out of the illusion a bit.


However! I will say that it really sticks with you. I had dreams about it and I keep thinking about it today. So that's pretty awesome.

7/10

[checkyourprez]

during and after the movie, I thought it was pretty boring, and I could really tell that it was made by men...not because of the lesbo stuff, just because I could tell it was written from a man's perspective.

The acting was great. I just thought the story...just kinda wasn't there. and I figured out what was going to happen before it happened. and I really wish I didn't know that Natalie Portman was knocked up by her dance partner. took me out of the illusion a bit.


However! I will say that it really sticks with you. I had dreams about it and I keep thinking about it today. So that's pretty awesome.

7/10


obviously, who else would have wrote it?

[Dorothy Wood]

obviously, who else would have wrote it?

uh, is this a "the mother is the surgeon" riddle kinda situation?

I meant that I shouldn't be able to tell. especially since most of the charcters were women. their motivations and voices didn't always ring true to me, they were portraits of what men think women are like.

most, if not all of the writers and producers were men.

just think it might've had a little more depth of perspective with input from women...since the movie is mainly about a woman. and because it was a "psychological" thriller, it might have been scarier to me if it seemed more true.

because although it was unique and entertaining, I think overall, it was a crock of shit.

[saz]

i've never considered darren aronofsky as a sexist, mysongenist, or a jock type dude who refers to women as "broads" or "chicks" etc. his films usually involve difficult premises which challenge the viewer while perhaps making him/her uncomfortable. this was very much the case for me anyways with requiem for a dream, so much so that i'll never watch it again. also it's surprising that black swan would be criticized for too much of a heavy-handed male production, whereas requiem has that incredibly distubring jennifer connolly scene at the end.

[nodanaonlyzuul]

She had a unique/messed up enough life that I think all that occurred isn't typical of a woman's perspective regardless.

[Dorothy Wood]

i've never considered darren aronofsky as a sexist, mysongenist, or a jock type dude who refers to women as "broads" or "chicks" etc. his films usually involve difficult premises which challenge the viewer while perhaps making him/her uncomfortable. this was very much the case for me anyways with requiem for a dream, so much so that i'll never watch it again. also it's surprising that black swan would be criticized for too much of a heavy-handed male production, whereas requiem has that incredibly distubring jennifer connolly scene at the end.

Ah, but there's an insidious brand of misogyny that rumbles under the surface, perhaps he's not even aware of it. And it comes from believing that he can understand and translate the thoughts and emotions of women. He's just not doing it well enough to impress me or create art that affects me deeply.

the daughter in The Wrestler was boring and awful. She's all "my daddy being gone ruined my life! wahhh!" and she's a lesbian, ooooh! She's sooooo damaged. the female characters are weak and one dimensional (or as far as two-dimensional with Black Swan). and when they're not, they're caricatures of women that people would find "hot".

as for the heavy-handedness, it's not all on account of the makers being male. it's a symptom of the case of a man and his movie-making team thinking they have made something really special. it's arrogance. (I would say the same of any movie made by women that was too heavy-handed...don't get me wrong.) It's the repetition, the overwrought literalness of the words and images. Symbolism requires depth of thought, a little digging...in Black Swan it's served on a platter over and over.

I can't comment on Requiem because it's been at least 8 years since I've seen it. I did like it though. but again, lesbian thing....just sayin'.


She had a unique/messed up enough life that I think all that occurred isn't typical of a woman's perspective regardless.

Yeah, but what was the motivation? was she actually mentally ill? was she driven insane by her mother? because honestly, I couldn't tell, and not in a good way. and isn't a movie's purpose to urge the viewer to find commonality with the protagonist? to evoke emotion? to create a scenario that is somehow plausible? because if it all seems fake, where are the "thrills" in the thriller?

I'm not saying I know all about what a principal dancer's life is...I was hoping the movie would do something about that, inform further than it did. It hints at it only. I found the factual and emotional content very shallow.


Basically, I agree with the review in the New Yorker. (I usually look up bad reviews for "good" movies when I don't like them...hopefully to find someone more articulate who agrees with me.)

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/cinema/2010/12/06/101206crci_cinema_denby

and, Rex Reed, who sums it up: "he's jerry-built an absurd Freudian nightmare that is more wet dream than bad dream, with all the subtlety of a chain saw."


No offense, guys! I just thought it was crap.

[hpdrifter]

We can agree to disagree. I mostly saw a story about a young woman driven mad by a desire for unattainable perfection.

I actually expected a little more fleshing out of the mother-daughter relationship which is the implied cause of the young woman's neuroses. Obviously there is the mother living through her daughter, they are pretty explicit about that but what else? Where is her father? There is no background on any tension abut their living situation until the daughter gets drunk and high. And the cake scene is also given without much context.

But to me that's not really the story anyway. It's like a horror movie. It doesn't really matter how you got there, the thrill comes from what happens to you in the moment.

[nodanaonlyzuul]

isn't a movie's purpose to urge the viewer to find commonality with the protagonist?

not always. sometimes it's purpose may be just to entertain.

[Dorothy Wood]

We can agree to disagree. I mostly saw a story about a young woman driven mad by a desire for unattainable perfection.

I actually expected a little more fleshing out of the mother-daughter relationship which is the implied cause of the young woman's neuroses. Obviously there is the mother living through her daughter, they are pretty explicit about that but what else? Where is her father? There is no background on any tension abut their living situation until the daughter gets drunk and high. And the cake scene is also given without much context.

But to me that's not really the story anyway. It's like a horror movie. It doesn't really matter how you got there, the thrill comes from what happens to you in the moment.

but she did achieve perfection. what was missing for me was the motivation. she didn't want money, she didn't want companionship, she only wanted her dancing to be perfect. I guess the movie is trying to show that sacrificing your life for achievement isn't worth it? she's working and working for seemingly no reward. the dancing isn't an escape, it's another cage, she has no friends at the studio, she's always on edge. but why?

I thought the horror aspects were cliche, though I did scream at every single one.


I just thought it was disappointing. it was brilliant at times. it was gripping for the first third, then just fell apart for me because I felt it lacked depth.

not always. sometimes it's purpose may be just to entertain.

well, at the heart of good entertainment and good art inwriting is tapping into universal human emotion. catharsis is part of the entertainment, especially when it's sold as "psychological".

it's a good movie, I just didn't think it was great.

[saz]

just thought i'd check imdb and aronofsky didn't write the wrestler (robert d. siegel), nor black swan (mark heyman, andres heinz, john j. mclaughlin).

[Dorothy Wood]

just thought i'd check imdb and aronofsky didn't write the wrestler (robert d. siegel), nor black swan (mark heyman, andres heinz, john j. mclaughlin).

didn't say he did. he was the director, making him responsible for the tone; what he chooses to draw out of the written material and the actors' performances is what shapes the film. the writers generally have little control over the finished product. that's up to the director's vision, and even more than that most times, the producers' vision and the studio's bottom line. it's entirely possible that the depth I was looking for is lying on the cutting room floor.

meh, I don't mean to be a snob or anything. I really did try to enjoy the movie. I just didn't, it left me frustrated. not going to boycott the dude's movies...I look forward to seeing what he does in the future. but if everyone crowns him king shit of fuck mountain for black swan...I don't know, here's hoping he has enough humility and drive to develop and make better movies.

instead of turning into a brandthat churns out garbage year after year, like woody allen.

[ScarySquirrel]

I was expecting some sort of weird, scary ballet movie. It seemed like an odd combination, but that's what I was expecting from the previews.

Instead I got a weird psychological thriller-type thing. I did enjoy it and all... but I wanted something that required a LOT less thinking at the moment...

Oh, and I kinda saw it coming. Not entirely, but I was close. I hate it when I that happens.

[saz]

didn't say he did. he was the director, making him responsible for the tone; what he chooses to draw out of the written material and the actors' performances is what shapes the film. the writers generally have little control over the finished product. that's up to the director's vision, and even more than that most times, the producers' vision and the studio's bottom line. it's entirely possible that the depth I was looking for is lying on the cutting room floor.

but your main grievance with this film was:

I could really tell that it was made by men...I could tell it was written from a man's perspective.

The acting was great. I just thought the story...just kinda wasn't there.


most, if not all of the writers and producers were men.

yes, the director is crucial in the development of a film, motivating and guiding the actors to flesh out their characters. but the director has to work with the script he is given. besides, you even said that the acting was great, so aronofsky essentially did his job.

[Dorothy Wood]

my original main grievance morphed into being unhappy with the lack of depth. I realize that playing the gender card is inflammatory, probably should've kept that to myself. I didn't go into the movie looking to be offended, I just was. It might be impossible to explain if you don't know what it's like to be a woman with normal, successful, nice, and funny women in your life...yet see women in movies consistently portrayed as only sick, sexy, or both. and if they have any sort of strength or personality at all, it's cartoonish. It's really just disappointing and exhausting.

I maintain that I never called out Darren Aronofsky specifically. I'm blaming everyone that made it. Scripts are constantly being rewritten, especially for big studios. I'm not in the movie business or anything, but some of my friends have been. Things are always changing, and the director and the producers are responsible for the finished product. The material can be enriched or stripped, depending on who wanted what. Overall, they were successful. But that doesn't mean I can't call it a crock of shit.

If I'm judging based purely on direction, then I would say the movie's look did not move me. The dancing was almost non-existent. Other than that, pretty good. But I've seen better. When the world already has the Coen Brothers and David Lynch, people who've made actual psychological thrillers with sex and weirdness that are a million times better than Black Swan...you can't call Aronofsky a genius.



Here are some people that agree with me from IMDB:


"Black Swan" is a bombastic, pretentious, middlebrow soap opera that struggles hard to say something profound about art and women, but manages to peddle hateful lies about both art and women. Men who've read too much Freud and have no understanding of women and teen Goth girls who wear black fingernail polish will embrace "Black Swan" passionately.

"Black Swan" has no rise in tension, no complication of plot. The entire film is a bleak, dreary, depiction of a schizophrenic who hallucinates and wears nice ballet costumes. Nina (Natalie Portman) is never depicted as having any normal life or healthy relationships the audience might care about her losing. From start to finish, the film features tight close-ups on Portman's anguished face as she careens through one hallucination, and one dance rehearsal, after another. Since Nina's world is so relentlessly bleak, horrific – and unreal – from the start, we can't invest in her. We can't care about her losing her hold on sanity, because she is shown from the get-go to have no hold on sanity. We can't care about her losing her friendships, or her hope, because she has no friendships and she has no hope. Nothing changes. Nothing is at stake. Nina is as big of a messy basket case an hour into the film as she was at the beginning. The endless close-ups on Nina's anguished face get old really fast.

The film-goer comes to understand disastrously quickly that Aronofsky's bag of tricks is limited. The sets are all in stiflingly monotonous black and white, no doubt to show how deep of a film this is. Since viewers don't know which scenes are real and which are Nina's hallucinations, it's impossible to invest in them.

The one bright spot in the film is Vincent Cassel, who relishes a bath in smarm as a ballet troupe's sadistic, manipulative, and very naughty director. He's the only one who has any fun, and God bless him for it. He could probably dance on the deck of the Titanic. With his French bonhomie and predatory amorality, Cassel is a cross between Maurice Chevalier and George Sanders.

"Black Swan" tells us that women are fragile and neurotic and if they do anything remarkable it makes them crazy. Craziness, in women, oddly parallels male sex fantasies. When women go crazy they have catfights with other women, including their moms, they torture their bodies and others in bloody, gory ways, they begin to pleasure themselves in visually artistic ways, and then they engage in same-gender erotic expression. Most of the women involved are young, fit, and minimally clad. How convenient for any kinky men watching this movie! Is this film misogynist? Ask yourself this, would Aronofksy make a parallel film about a football linebacker who goes nuts because being a football linebacker is a big stress? Yeah, I didn't think so, either. Of course this film is misogynist. "Black Swan" is a throwback to soft-core women's prison flics and misogynist film noir like 1947's "Possessed," that depicted Joan Crawford driven mad by passion.

"Black Swan" struggles really hard to say big things about art: that the drive for perfection can drive you mad, that artists sacrifice for their art, that art and madness are virtually identical. This viewer just cannot believe that someone suffering from full blown schizophrenia could become the prima ballerina of a high powered NYC ballet troupe. Ballet is not the whim of an afternoon. Ballet demands a lifetime of showing up on time, getting along with colleagues, and successful performance. Someone as ill as Nina could not have carried this off.

"Black Swan" wants us to believe the old, crude, invidious lie that art equals madness. It doesn't. There have been some high-profile artists who were also mentally ill, but that the public tends to focus on these people doesn't make art and madness the same thing. For most artists, art means years of unpaid hard work, dedication, self-discipline, and self-restraint. The creation of powerful art demands that the artist be, not crazier than the bulk of the population, but saner. Not buying into popular lies arouses envy and suspicion. Some people who hate art and artists are often simply envious of art and artists. And some people really don't understand art or artists and so they feel threatened and enraged by art and artists. It is these people who have given us the lie that art and madness are identical. Aronofsky doesn't do art or artists any favors by peddling this lie.

I consider myself a sophisticated film-goer who loves indie films, but I was extremely disappointed in this movie and am surprised that it is being taken so seriously (although I know Hollywood considers Darren Aronofsky a genius). It is about women, but not real women. Instead we are presented with a completely male-oriented fantasy: the repressed ice queen vs. the slut, with lesbian sex thrown in to spice it up. And the horror element becomes ridiculous towards the end, like The Exorcist in toe shoes. People in the audience I saw it with laughed.

I also did not care for it artistically: grainy jumpy hand-held camera shots interspersed with lots of camera-in-the-face close ups which usually cut off the top part of people's heads. But that is a personal preference.



and from a disappointed ballerina :(

I was very disappointed with this film. As a trained ballet dancer, I was not fond of the majority of dancing shots that featured only the upper body rather than the entire body. As "artistic" as these shots may be to a non-dancing audience, they only irritated me. In addition, the audience only witnesses either arms or feet in the same positions throughout the entire film. If a film about the ballet world is going to be made, it should convey non- stereotypical aspects rather than what we see in Black Swan: the bulimic protagonist, the overly-aggressive artistic director, and the fanatical ballet mother. Many ballet films (with the exception of "The Turning Point" and "The Red Shoes") fail to represent the ballet world in a deep manner. Black Swan is no exception.

Portman's performance lacked any sort of depth. She only gave one expression throughout the entire film. We knew very little about her character's background. Although we must forgive that she isn't a professional dancer, it may have been better to have a professional dancer as the lead character in this film. The dancing would've been much more believable. Portman's dancing was not at all equal with that of her character - a soloist at a New York City ballet company. Kunis, in addition, performed equally as poor. When the extras can dance better than the leads, then that signals that the lead "dancing" characters were wrongfully cast.

This film was static, disappointing, and ultimately a letdown. I believe it would've succeeded if a better cast was built, a deeper exploration of the plot and subplot occurred, and if the dancing scenes were re-shot to show the entire body versus just the upper body or just the feet. We need less stereotypical ballet films, and Black Swan is just another failure to add to the stack of stereotypical, dry ballet films.



in addition, my boyfriend very much enjoyed the film. so we just decided to agree to disagree. :p

[cosmo105]

I looked at it as an over-the-top, art-house flick in the style of Dario Argento (whose films that I've seen honestly made me gag). It's grotesque, it's ridiculous, it's meant to make you panic and feel a specific sort of terror. I think it accomplished that.

[Dorothy Wood]

I guess it didn't work for me in that respect either. Sure, I jumped and squealed and covered my eyes...but I didn't get that scared because there was no reality to depart from.

it's possible that I could've appreciated it more if it were sold as camp and not high art.

it lost me at the capsules....any promise of a good movie dissolved like ecstasy in a pink drink.



Sorry to be a bummer. I just can't accept some things. the idea that sexual awakening makes a woman a woman...the way the girl-on-girl scene exploited homosexuality...the idea that women are silly creatures, basically...it just made me sad. I really don't want anyone to accept these things, especially not if they're sold as part of something to be appreciated as art. I guess that's why I'm so adamant about making my point...however clouded it's become.

[saz]

no worries, it's just a movie. i still haven't seen it yet. meanwhile, fan boys' dreams have been answered, and aronofsky could be the next christopher nolan, as his next film is the wolverine.

[Nicodemus]

The lead should have been an African-American girl. That's what Dorothy is getting at.

[Dorothy Wood]

haha, you jerks!

:)

man, I get way too into thinking about movies sometimes. I think I'm just jaded. or I was somehow traumatized by watching Wild Hogs recently.

[A. Chimendez]

well, at the heart of good entertainment and good art inwriting is tapping into universal human emotion. catharsis is part of the entertainment, especially when it's sold as "psychological".

it's a good movie, I just didn't think it was great.


That's pretty subjective.

[Audio.]

what is so horrifying about this film, any example?

[Dorothy Wood]

That's pretty subjective.

nope. not subjective at all. if you study art and literature, you'd recognize that.

what do you think the function of entertainment is in biological and/or psychological terms?

[checkyourprez]

what is so horrifying about this film, any example?

the trannys.

[A. Chimendez]

nope. not subjective at all. if you study art and literature, you'd recognize that.

what do you think the function of entertainment is in biological and/or psychological terms?


What you said was that its present in all "good" entertainment, meaning the lack of catharsis in a story would automatically mean "not good" which I reject.

You can't boil down "good" and "not good" in such absolute terms like that. I'm sure many "scholars" have said "good art needs this and this, etc" but I simply don't agree with them.

I think the most important part of ENTERTAINMENT is just that; to entertain. Doesn't have to be much more complicated than that.

Now back to the sexisist remark:
I wouldn't go right to the extreme that he's a sexist, just that Aronofsky uses sexuality to invoke a response from the audience and to bring a weight to the story that other subjects couldn't.
And sorry automatically saying "oh this MUST have been written by a man" is a pretty ridiculous statement. You might as well say "all men are sexist".
Least that's how I take it.

[Dorothy Wood]

What you said was that its present in all "good" entertainment, meaning the lack of catharsis in a story would automatically mean "not good" which I reject.

You can't boil down "good" and "not good" in such absolute terms like that. I'm sure many "scholars" have said "good art needs this and this, etc" but I simply don't agree with them.



you don't agree because you don't grasp the concept. this is 9th grade literature basics here. at least that's when I first learned it, granted it was an AP course. so yes, scholars without the quotes have spent many centuries of study coming to a conclusion that is generally accepted as truth. critics of art in various media use this as a measure of what is "good" on a very basic level. not to say there aren't a million other factors contributing to a piece's overall "quality", which is a more subjectively judged designation.



I think the most important part of ENTERTAINMENT is just that; to entertain. Doesn't have to be much more complicated than that.

Now back to the sexisist remark:
I wouldn't go right to the extreme that he's a sexist, just that Aronofsky uses sexuality to invoke a response from the audience and to bring a weight to the story that other subjects couldn't.
And sorry automatically saying "oh this MUST have been written by a man" is a pretty ridiculous statement. You might as well say "all men are sexist".
Least that's how I take it.[/QUOTE]

[Dorothy Wood]

bleh, this is too fucking hard to respond to with my phone!

Back later i guess

[Yetra Flam]

I thought it was a bit stupid. A lot of Natalie Portman crying and touching herself.
And a lot of parts were more comedic than horror - that chick stabbing herself in the face, and when her legs broke out from under her.
Oh, and the ending I found corny as hell, when she was falling on the mattress and when she was like "i was perfect!" Eh.

[A. Chimendez]

bleh, this is too fucking hard to respond to with my phone!

Back later i guess

lol


nah, I grasp it. Kinda insulted you don't think I do but whatever. I get your point, still don't agree. :D

[DIGI]

Jesus. This thread has gotten out of hand. Just tell Jim you think he's a retard and be done with it.

[BBboy20]

Jesus. This thread has gotten out of hand. Just tell Jim you think he's a retard and be done with it.Could be great writing material for Darren Aronofsky to use on his next film. :p

[Dorothy Wood]

I think the most important part of ENTERTAINMENT is just that; to entertain. Doesn't have to be much more complicated than that.

Now back to the sexisist remark:
I wouldn't go right to the extreme that he's a sexist, just that Aronofsky uses sexuality to invoke a response from the audience and to bring a weight to the story that other subjects couldn't.
And sorry automatically saying "oh this MUST have been written by a man" is a pretty ridiculous statement. You might as well say "all men are sexist".
Least that's how I take it.


re:entertainment,
entertainment is complicated.to entertain and to be entertained is an incredibly complex development in the evolution of human society.

re:sexuality and sexism,
aronofsky uses sexuality to invoke boners, and that's all. "weight"? two girls drop ecstasy and hook up, or one just imagined it? it was ham-fisted and laughable. I've heard more weighty homoerotic tales from my coworkers.

you've misquoted me up there. I didn't automatically say or think it was written by a man, I could just tell because the characters were caricatures of women, they didn't seem like actual women.
and the messages delivered about these women were, in my opinion, hollow.

now jim, I'm speaking to you in a condescending manner, because that's the way you've addressed me. you're certain of your opinion, but your argument has no content. so there's no use for me to continue this discussion.

[Nicodemus]

Ah, there it is.

[Dorothy Wood]

wait, what'd you say?

not trying to stoke flames, just curious on account of your editing reason.

[HEIRESS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk0TRXm_mR0&feature=player_embedded

[A. Chimendez]

Jesus. This thread has gotten out of hand. Just tell Jim you think he's a retard and be done with it.

And seriously that's all it is really. She doesn't value my opinion because she's convinced shes intellectuality superior (which could or could not be true) but because this is the internet and we don't actually know each other nobody would be able to answer truthfully. (no comments from the peanut gallery, thank you :D)


Which is fine by me, I wasn't even going to sneak another glance at this thread till I stopped by again (while I was taking a shit) and saw it was at the top of the page.

I was not trying to be condescending at all, but your bias against me makes you read it as such. Again: internet. (And no skin off my nose)

[Dorothy Wood]

And seriously that's all it is really. She doesn't value my opinion because she's convinced shes intellectuality superior (which could or could not be true) but because this is the internet and we don't actually know each other nobody would be able to answer truthfully. (no comments from the peanut gallery, thank you :D)


Which is fine by me, I wasn't even going to sneak another glance at this thread till I stopped by again (while I was taking a shit) and saw it was at the top of the page.

I was not trying to be condescending at all, but your bias against me makes you read it as such. Again: internet. (And no skin off my nose)

yeah, why bother thinking about anything longer than 2 seconds.

[HEIRESS]

Ok, but seriously, somebody click my link up there.

[Dorothy Wood]

Ok, but seriously, somebody click my link up there.

I did, and I forgot to say LOL!too busy being a snob.... :P

[Turchinator]

any promise of a good movie dissolved like ecstasy in a pink drink.



9th Grade AP Literature Class?

[Dorothy Wood]

9th Grade AP Literature Class?


well, that, and it's a reference to what happens in the movie.

[jackrock]

So uh... Vince Cassel's a pretty cool guy.

[Lyman Zerga]

i will probably watch it when it's on tv

[JoLovesMCA]

Okay I really liked Black Swan because it reminded me of the V.C. Andrews books I read growing up. Disturbed, obsessed girl, jealous mom, etc…. I mean this is the sort of stuff I wait on in the midst of crappy Twilight films which dominate the industry. It was just really nice to see a dark intelligent film, but the only thing that annoyed me was the overkill on the seduction. I mean I get it, they wanted to show the seduction and I realize the played an important part of the movie but how much is too much before it sorta becomes the focus of the story? I felt they didn’t show enough of the dancing and that was a huge disappointment because right when I got into that it was over. Other than that I think it was pretty damn brilliant. I’ve linked one of the reviews online that pretty much agrees on what I’ve been thinking about it since I seen it over the weekend.

http://hwhills.com/black-swan-review-its-dark-and-intense-but-goes-a-little-too-far-at-times/ (http://hwhills.com/black-swan-review-its-dark-and-intense-but-goes-a-little-too-far-at-times/)

[Documad]

^^ I haven't seen it because I worried it would be too campy. Then the VC Andrews reference really puts me off. Those books were just eww.

[JoLovesMCA]

^^ I haven't seen it because I worried it would be too campy. Then the VC Andrews reference really puts me off. Those books were just eww.

LOL sorry it might not be that way to others but I did read a lot of her books and I got that vibe from it. It was serious enough I think. You should check it out and just see what you think. :p

[saz]

finally saw it and it was awesome: dark, disturbing and creepy as fuck.

crappy Twilight films which dominate the industry. It was just really nice to see a dark intelligent film

thank you

[weez]

We can agree to disagree. I mostly saw a story about a young woman driven mad by a desire for unattainable perfection.

I actually expected a little more fleshing out of the mother-daughter relationship which is the implied cause of the young woman's neuroses. Obviously there is the mother living through her daughter, they are pretty explicit about that but what else? Where is her father? There is no background on any tension abut their living situation until the daughter gets drunk and high. And the cake scene is also given without much context.

But to me that's not really the story anyway. It's like a horror movie. It doesn't really matter how you got there, the thrill comes from what happens to you in the moment.

I liked it. I'm not one for looking into the deeper meanings of movies, I like to be slapped in the face with all or most of the facts depending on the movie (sometimes I like it when they leave stuff open so your mind can take it and run with it).

My cousin said to me while we were watching it that the mother may have been in the character's head the whole time. I don't remember the mom looking all beat up at the show.

I think the character was a little mad before the part of her life we saw.