listen up oil junkies

[ericg]

yes this is highly political. i know ive said this around a thousand times but how many of you know about the water car? i'm not going to make a survey out of it but just say if you've ever even heard about a water car.. yes, a car that runs off of water. check it out.

Anyway just trying to get the oil junkees off my back. i wish more people with money would invest in big things like this. that's how the world could be changed. you know what i'm sayin?

[ericg]

here slackers.. www.waterpoweredcar.com

[ericg]

like i've sed, wouldn't it be swell if people came up with the water car and hemp (growing 6-8% of the continental us with hemp would relieve us from foreign oil) before our oiligarchy is done killing us and the environment with oil?

[ericg]

because if we don't do something and leave it to our oiligarchy, they'll just continue with oil and get the patents for new innovation when the time is right for them. wouldn't that be fucking horrible. well that's what they've done since day one.

[kaiser soze]

does it come with water skis?

[ericg]

no it comes with ur mom.

[ericg]

here's another site: www.hydrogencarkit.net

[Adam]

So you want even more of the world to go thirsty and die?

[HAL 9000]

Hi ericg,

I know we have disagreed on many things in the past and you are probably sick of my naysaying. But I hope you realise I have your interests at heart when I say What ever you do, do not give any of your money to the companies in these websites!

If you are interested, the proposed engine violates the laws of thermodynamics, simply put, it cost more energy to separate water into oxygen and hydrogen than you can get from burning them.

Most of the designs involve taking water separating into hydrogen and water and then burining it to reform water - that is insane, how can you end up with the same fuel you started with and new energy?

But it is OK, I know it is unlikely that I can convince you of this, but I hope I can make you think twice if any of these dudes comes for your cash.

BTW, these scams generally have two models. Approach 1 is to sell you a simple kit or guide to convert your car. The more devious approachs (and this is seen with all types of free energy machines) have the following model

1. Show design for free energy machine, seek investment to build prototype to bring engine to market
2. Take your cash
3. Announce delay in prototype development and a need for additonal funding.
4. Go back to 2 and repeat until Police involved
5. Cut and run

Approach 1 just takes you for a few $100. Second approach takes your life savings.

PS why does that site start talking about WT7, 911 truthers and free energy scammers are the same community?

[Adam]

I did a bit of looking and Stan Meyer (the guy in your link) was done for fraud over his water powered car in 1996

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.energy.hydrogen/msg/8ee0acb80e943e21?hl=endc310437cd1cee1e7&&pli=1

btw, I am a proud green party member. My previous post was just to make a joke. I knew there were concept and prototype carbon free cars and stuff in development but I always thought that water powered was always a bit of fail as you need some energy (from elsewhere) to create the chemical reaction (whatever method you use - steam/hydrogen) in water.

edit: didn't see HALs post until after I submitted mine. He put what I wanted to say, but better.

[kaiser soze]

no it comes with ur mom.

beats the shopping cart your mom came with

:rolleyes:

One day wars will be fought for water - These automakers are just ahead of the trend.

[yeahwho]

I purchased water and dirt in bulk at costco last night, the dirt was taxed.

[ericg]

so this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX58ztQcP2A) is fake? didn't the patent/ tech go to the military. how bout that shit?

[ericg]

then there's the magnetic engine. what do you think about that?
And the air car. you didn't mention anything about hemp being illegal in this country.
talk to me.

[Adam]

I don't think anyone is denying that these aren't good ideas and although to a certain degree some research into renewable and low carbon technologies are stifled because of self interest, I doubt many are miracle cures anyway. As has been said - it's the basic transfer of energy, what process do you use for the chemical reaction? If that process takes as much or even more energy then you've lost the benefit. That news report said it took 4oz of water to travel 100 miles (or something like that) but at no point did they hint how they achieve the conversion.

The military years ago made the decision that climate change is an issue of national security, they don't particularly care too much about the lack of trees, holes in the ozone or whatever but they do want to keep the tanks moving so they will already be in research of it but probably aren't letting out too many secrets right now.

There is a solution already to further climate change and existing technologies can stop/slow it. It's just there is not much will to change. In my opinion (and one shared by the majority of Green Party UK members) that we use the technologies we know already work (hydro, solar, wind) and create as much electric as we need. Top up with natural gas (for now) and get rid coal and nuclear. That'd be a better place to put resources. At the same time there can be a new green tech economy.

Petrol in the UK is about £1.35 a litre atm (about $10 a gallon) - which is about 15p - 20p per mile. Existing all electric vehicles can go about 2p per mile in the early stages, it's just the cost to buy out right is a little too high for most right now and takes about 10 years to pay for itself on average and only has a range of 100 miles (which is good enough for over 90% of journeys however). But pouring development into that I'm sure would get us to 500 miles with plenty of charging stations and quick charging batteries (talking <1min) readily available.

With charging stations the governments beloved oil companies already have the forecourts and infrastructure to deliver the electric the public will need so they can adapt rather than lose out. There won't be too many hurt in the process and stability won't suffer too much.

That is a more realisable dream. I don't think anyone is actively stopping the water powered car, I more suspect the sums just don't add up.

[HAL 9000]

so this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX58ztQcP2A) is fake? didn't the patent/ tech go to the military. how bout that shit?

I don't have much time to look into it but on a first glance I have a few comments. Firstly it is hard to separate the claims of the company from the bad reporting of fox news, I don't think the company actually claims to make a car powered by water - there is no mention of this on their website (nor of the Hummer - clearly the military did not seek further development).

The company does claim that they have a process for making a gas called Aquygen through electrolysis. As far as I can tell this is a tradename for a substance known as Oxyhydrogen or Browns Gas. This stuff is famous because it was used in the 90s by a number of fraudulent companies who claimed it could be used as a fuel additive. Its application in welding has been known since the 60s. I note that the company in the link also claims it is an effective fuel additive, however, thermodynamics dictate that the energy required to produce the gas would exceed any efficiency savings in fuel.

My only other observation is thhat the companies website has little info about their technology and a lot of info on how you can invest in the company. It looks like a fraud but I cant say for certain.

As for the other things you mentioned, compressed gas is a plausible energy storage system that could be an alternative to an electic battery, but as far as I know it is currently much less efficient than batteries and is lagging behind the battery as a power source for electric cars.

I dont know what a magnetic engine is but I would observe that most free energy frauds use magnets in their design.

What is your point about hemp, are you talking biofuels?

[abbott]

I remember watching a fleet of BMW 7 series powered by hydrogen being tested in Death Valley around 2001. I talked to the driver and he said the car performed as good or better than gas while in extreme heat for extended periods. The talk of why this was not being used mainstream was just that ... talk, but you could tell the team of drivers and workers on the crew believed it to be global politics ... seems they were thankful to have the opportunity to do open testing and reporting in America.

[kaiser soze]

I purchased water and dirt in bulk at costco last night, the dirt was taxed.

was it a land tax?

bwahahaha!

it's not funny that we buy dirt and water

[ericg]

What is your point about hemp, are you talking biofuels?

yes, and thanks for participating errbody. i'm glad we can finally have a good discussion about this although i still believe in my gut that for years there's been some macro bullshit going on like everywhere. it's been so fucking obvious in day to day shit. imean, the corruption and conspiracies is the only thing that adds up in this gridlocked world.

there's many conspiracies going on.. dca from canada can cure certain types of cancer but that's not the pharma plans. you won't see it here for a long while. Just like new tech. in fact, solo, the guy who hacked the pentagon files said he found anti gravity tech. There' making too much money off keeping you a slave though.

solar roadways is still looking for an investor. what's up with that?
what about tesla's free energy invention. where's that today too? i heard it was abandon by rockefeller because he couldn't charge people with it.

[ericg]

I remember watching a fleet of BMW 7 series powered by hydrogen being tested in Death Valley around 2001. I talked to the driver and he said the car performed as good or better than gas while in extreme heat for extended periods. The talk of why this was not being used mainstream was just that ... talk, but you could tell the team of drivers and workers on the crew believed it to be global politics ... seems they were thankful to have the opportunity to do open testing and reporting in America.

word

[HAL 9000]

The stories and links you post are full of corruption and conspiracy! But it is the corruption and conspiracy by small time fraudsters making a buck selling their free energy machines and ineffecitve alternative meds.

The truth is that big companies do try to maximise their profits and OPEC is a cartel that seeks to control the price of oil. But there are no organisations stock-piling and hiding amazing technology from you. Tesla's free energy machine is not here because free energy is impossible, not because someone is surpressing it. Don't you think one of these evil corps would have found a better way to make money from free energy than hiding it (selling it for example).

I assume you are joking about the anti-gravity tech!

Here is an interesting article on the truth about DCA (http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/another-cure-for-cancer/)

I nver heard of Solar Roadways before, I looked it up and it sounds awesome, I hope they do it. Obviously the problem is that it would be damn expensive and the technology is improving all the time, so why spend trillions on new solar roads now that are 20% efficient when in 10 years we can build roads that are 40% efficient.

I suspect thhat the tech is simply too inefficient to make it viable but it sounds like a cool idea!

[ericg]

do you still believe the world is flat because you certainly don't believe in much. i swear you'd be the guy everyone listened to before they found themselves again on the other side. you just seem too programmed to the following.

anyway, i'll concede to a few of your acknowledgements ie the air car not being up to par.., but i'm still not swayed in the long run. time is of the essence.

here's solo (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5629291130965502807#http://).

you should look up more on the solar roadways. ask him about the inefficiency as you put it. see, the world should be so much more advanced right now than it is. that's a given. instead, it's been impeded, disenfranchised, stolen, taxed, and raped. that's a given. and most people just haven't gotten the news yet.

you still didn't check hemp as energy etc... try that conspiracy on for size.

[kaiser soze]

The solar roadway may be an interesting concept but just isn't practical right now.

What it can do

1) Provide energy
2) Possibly create jobs
3) Make neat signs on the ground

What could possibly go wrong?

1) Massive and recurring damage - possibly affecting drivers and energy users alike

2) Efficiency - How many hours of sunlight are available with favorable conditions?

2) Create more toxic waste - you think the materials used are earth friendly?

3) Theft/vandalism/hacking

4) Increased Taxes for maintenance.

Like I said - it's more rational to make solar available for every home/building/reclaimed commercial land (ie: dead strip malls..etc) first.

[HAL 9000]

do you still believe the world is flat because you certainly don't believe in much. i swear you'd be the guy everyone listened to before they found themselves again on the other side. you just seem too programmed to the following.



You know, if you did believe the world was flat, that would not stand out from your other beliefs as being especially nuts. :p

Anyhow, I try to be all about the evidence, sure it is fun to believe in aliens, fairies, magic and stuff, but I am a science geek so I care about what finding out what is real and how things work.

[ericg]

well...
so you're a science geek and don't believe in other life or technological progress. seems like an oxymoron to me. i got your evidence!
so tell me about hemp.
and while you're at it, tell me about wtc 7.

[HAL 9000]

well...
so you're a science geek and don't believe in other life or technological progress. seems like an oxymoron to me. i got your evidence!
so tell me about hemp.
and while you're at it, tell me about wtc 7.

Actually I do think other life is possible (although if I was to bet I would guess it was very very rare), its just not here on earth. And obviously I believe in technological progress.

What would you like to know about biofuel? I think we have done wt7 before, I suggest we leave this thread for environmental conspiracy theories.

Going to bed now, will answer your questions tomorrow if I have time.

[Adam]

HAL is the most logical guy on this board. There is a difference between Science Fiction Geek and Science Geek. You can be both but you've gotta be able to tell the difference to.

I believe in Aliens. I think there is a few possibilities, we'll never meet as carbon life just can't sustain itself as one being long enough to get there - maybe up to a few hundred thousand civilisations out there. If anyone has noticed us we are being watched stealthy from a distance as they'll probably think that we are a bit of violent planet.

They'd have to be way more technologically advanced than us though, we're all about natural resources atm and I'm sure this planet still has elements that other planets will want, if we saw that opportunity we'd start a war with them and take what we need. That has not happened so you've gotta think they're way beyond us or we just haven't met because although travelling close to the speed of light maybe possible, it can't be broken so even getting to the nearest likely place is a life time, then you've gotta think about getting back to or having a willing crew to leave earth forever - which I would bet many scientist would volunteer for actually.

I doubt that rocket would run on water to.

[ericg]

could you please tell me why hemp has been illegal?

ps. re wtc7, and i only bring it up because it's like the same people but different racket.., a fire didn't bring it down, and it wasn't rigged with explosives in a day. so the only conclusion is that it was a premeditated occurrence. bbc confirmed that when they reported on it before it happened. how do you explain that?

[ericg]

as a science geek you should know about architects and engineers for 911 truth. are you warranted to question them.. i mean have you checked their site yet?

[synch]

I don't drive.

Back to you.

[HAL 9000]

it was a premeditated occurrence. bbc confirmed that when they reported on it before it happened. how do you explain that?

I suppose there are two main explanations

1) The bbc are part of an international group of highly motivated individuals who plotted to destroy the world trade centre and blame it on Islamic terrorists. The plan had to be highly complex involving the secret development of new planes, the hiding of older (almost identical planes), the abduction and murder of the planes passengers and the secret rigging of giant buildings with explosives. Of greater challenge than doing all this without being caught would be the suppression of the 1000s of engineers and administrators required to make this happen, they would presumably be murdered to ensure their silence (it is therefore important that these individuals have no friends or family who mighht miss them)

Clearly a publicly owned british broadcaster would have a central role in such a plot, think of the viewing figures they would generate from all this lovely news, admittedly they are not a commercial station but the high ratings would look great in their annual national audit office report, certainly worth killing for.

Unfortunately, the bbc proved the weak link in the conspiracy, inadvertently blurting out the top secret plans to demolish wtc7 before it was supposed to happen, how embarrassing!

2) A journalist made an error in a news report. Perhaps someone noticed that that WTC7 looked like it was going to fall and the story got misreported?

[ericg]

I suppose there are two main explanations

1) The bbc are part of an international group of highly motivated individuals who plotted to destroy the world trade centre and blame it on Islamic terrorists.

no it leaked probably.

The plan had to be highly complex involving the secret development of new planes, the hiding of older (almost identical planes), the abduction and murder of the planes passengers and the secret rigging of giant buildings with explosives. Of greater challenge than doing all this without being caught would be the suppression of the 1000s of engineers and administrators required to make this happen, they would presumably be murdered to ensure their silence (it is therefore important that these individuals have no friends or family who mighht miss them)

hm. i don't know about all that, and i think you're over doing that count but... all that and more could have been done. guys with boxcutters aren't going to take over a plane. well securacom, the security company for the towers was directed by bush's brother. you can probably start there. then the takeover of norad and grounding of our fighter planes by dick was unpresidented.

Clearly a publicly owned british broadcaster would have a central role in such a plot, think of the viewing figures they would generate from all this lovely news, admittedly they are not a commercial station but the high ratings would look great in their annual national audit office report, certainly worth killing for.

i don't think so.

Unfortunately, the bbc proved the weak link in the conspiracy, inadvertently blurting out the top secret plans to demolish wtc7 before it was supposed to happen, how embarrassing!

right?

2) A journalist made an error in a news report. Perhaps someone noticed that that WTC7 looked like it was going to fall and the story got misreported?

whatever.

[Turchinator]

abovetopsecret.com strikes again.

some fool will believe anything he reads on the internet.

[Bob]

whatever.

oh you

[jackrock]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3rL08J7fDA
The first portion is highlights of the whole talk, thus the cutting.

http://energyfromthorium.com/faq/

Is there a Godwin equivalent for 9/11? Giuliani's law?

[Adam]

The bbc are part of an international group of highly motivated individuals who plotted to destroy the world trade centre and blame it on Islamic terrorists. The plan had to be highly complex involving the secret development of new planes, the hiding of older (almost identical planes), the abduction and murder of the planes passengers and the secret rigging of giant buildings with explosives. Of greater challenge than doing all this without being caught would be the suppression of the 1000s of engineers and administrators required to make this happen, they would presumably be murdered to ensure their silence (it is therefore important that these individuals have no friends or family who mighht miss them)

Clearly a publicly owned british broadcaster would have a central role in such a plot, think of the viewing figures they would generate from all this lovely news, admittedly they are not a commercial station but the high ratings would look great in their annual national audit office report, certainly worth killing for.


That's almost exactly how they faked the moon landing :eek: Ye'know too much!

[ericg]

fuck i've never seen so many naysayers who don't mean a thing. jk

check ev1 and 'who killed the electric car'. the tech has been here. it's politics of the world and on this board who keeps shit dumbed down.

i don't pitty a fool though. you must learn!

[ericg]

i ges no one is up for hte hemp challenge, just like jack herer sed.
can any1 clear up the wtc 7 for me.
fuck how many times until one of you fucks figures it out.
no rush, you can research all you want.

[ericg]

oh you

the whatever comment was in re to the last statement, not the whole thing.
oh you

[HAL 9000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3rL08J7fDA
The first portion is highlights of the whole talk, thus the cutting.

http://energyfromthorium.com/faq/



Thorium seems to be quite a viable energy source, as far as I can tell Thorium is abundant in the earth and the thorium fission cycle produces less harmful waste than uranium.

I think the issue there (at least as I understand it) is cost, we have decades of R&D behind our uranium based energy so we are pretty advanced when it comes to efficiency, safety and waste handling. Despite thorium's clear benefits, we are many years of research away from it being economically competitive with uranium.

Unfortunately, the reason we have come so far with uranium (and this sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory) is probably that it has a military application. During the cold war, masses of tax funding was put into uranium based weapons and research and one of the byproducts of this is the modern nuclear enegy program. It means thorium has a lot of catching up to do, but I reckon (or hope) we will see plenty of Thorium reactors in around 20 years.

[HAL 9000]

That's almost exactly how they faked the moon landing :eek: Ye'know too much!

As a Mitchell and Webb fan I am sure you have seen this, but you reminded me of it so....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo_nltYf9gw

[Adam]

I knew the clip before clicking it :D

[ericg]

y'all've drifted off course again now. who cares about the moon landing. just answer the effin questions please. thankyou.

[kaiser soze]

ps. re wtc7, and i only bring it up because it's like the same people but different racket.., a fire didn't bring it down, and it wasn't rigged with explosives in a day. so the only conclusion is that it was a premeditated occurrence. bbc confirmed that when they reported on it before it happened. how do you explain that?.

like this kind of drifting off course?

whatever

[Adam]

The hemp challenge?

Or understanding your grammar challenge?

No one is disagreeing with you that the black gold is evil but a few people piped up because they knew a little or did a little search of their own about water powered cars and such.

I don't know much about hemp - It's from the male pot plant right, and can be used as building materials and ropes and lots of other funky stuff but you can't smoke it. I think it's legal to cultivate the male plant but not the female.

I actually stopped caring about this thread a while back as it got too close to trolling. Sorry.

[ericg]

like this kind of drifting off course?

whatever

no. like i sed, same course, different track.

[ericg]

The hemp challenge?

go to jack herer's site. he's offering like 100,000 to anyone who can prove him wrong about hemp.

Or understanding your grammar challenge?

fk u

No one is disagreeing with you that the black gold is evil but a few people piped up because they knew a little or did a little search of their own about water powered cars and such.

someone hasn't been paying attention.

I don't know much about hemp - It's from the male pot plant right, and can be used as building materials and ropes and lots of other funky stuff but you can't smoke it. I think it's legal to cultivate the male plant but not the female.

again, you're wrong. i sed do some research. here's a little sample (http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/20329). hearst wasn't even mentioned but i'll just baby step you here since you're all grade a idiots.

I actually stopped caring about this thread a while back as it got too close to trolling. Sorry.

your own trolling.. or ..? j'cause really, you're the obvious troll here. anyway, don't be sorry.

[kaiser soze]

here's something that'll fuck with your head ericg

If those solar roads go to production - they will more than likely be made with petrochemicals!

Oil isn't just used for gas or as a lubricant ya know...or maybe not?

[ericg]

no the panels are mostly made of recyclable materials. it says that on the opening page. fuck man.

doesn't oil lubricate the techtonics.. we shouldn't be drilling it as we are.

[kaiser soze]

no the panels are mostly made of recyclable materials. it says that on the opening page. fuck man.

doesn't oil lubricate the techtonics.. we shouldn't be drilling it as we are.

and when production boosts and costs increase because recycled materials are still much more expensive than traditional building materials - they will more than likely outsource to China (so many current Green businesses are doing this) who will use the cheapest materials around including oil/plastics.

Once again - who is going to pay for each road panel to get replaced when a logging truck crashes or plows scratch them up, or an earthquake/sinkhole happens?

This is quite an outside of the box idea but is further from practical than the sun is from the earth. Solar for houses/commercial sites first - there are solar windows being researched which I believe would be more accessible and applicable.

[ericg]

the answers are all there. it pays for itself over and over...
but if you still have an itch, you should direct it at the owner if you haven't already checked the faq page.

solar windows huh? that sounds cool too.

[kaiser soze]

I highly doubt the inventor of this product would have much say after they sell the technology to the state/utility company. If this is going to "replace" our roadways I would assume it also becomes property of the state and all costs paid through taxes...and I highly doubt the utlity companies would stick to the inventor's vision cutting their costs and increasing ours.

I don't find it practical and think I have said this in many of your solar road threads.

start local - solar, wind, geothermal for homes and businesses first before laying out thousands of miles of solar panels we drive on

[ericg]

we've had this discussion before. .. they've already stated that they will not sell out...

like i sed it pays for itself and much much more.. that's on the front page as well.

different strokes baby... i say 'go'!

oh... (http://www.hempfarm.com/)

[TimDoolan]

Sorry wrong forum.

[Adam]

Saudi Prince Worries We Might Find Alternatives to Oil (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/05/saudi-prince-worries-we-might-find-alternatives-to-oil.php)

[ericg]

the fight is much closer and bigger than that.

[Helvete]

ericg is probably one of the most delusional people I have ever come across on this forum (scratch that, the 3rd). Why do you people even waste some much time on him?

Anyway, my car is powered by my thoughts.

[ericg]

one swift kick in the head for you and yours
then i will kill you where you stand

delusional in what way? i'm just presenting facts here. you can ignore them and jump in the naysayer van to nowhere or do your own research. that's on you isn't it.

[Adam]

Yup facts, exactly the same way L. Ron Hubbard did (y)

[ericg]

what?
scientology?
how does that have anything to do with anything?
you're an idiot.

[Adam]

what?

huh?


scientology?

yes

how does that have anything to do with anything?

you just remind me of him. Suppose I could use any religion really but they try top use pseudoscience to.

you're an idiot.

I'm also a troll, remember? ;)

[TimDoolan]

Who needs oil, I ride the bus

[ericg]

I'm also a troll, remember? ;)

you come in here.. you got nothin to say really... you just try to downgrade shit. you've had no intelligent conversation about the facts... wtf over?

[ericg]

I remember watching a fleet of BMW 7 series powered by hydrogen being tested in Death Valley around 2001. I talked to the driver and he said the car performed as good or better than gas while in extreme heat for extended periods. The talk of why this was not being used mainstream was just that ... talk, but you could tell the team of drivers and workers on the crew believed it to be global politics ... seems they were thankful to have the opportunity to do open testing and reporting in America.

i gotta bring this back up.. and there's quite a few hydrogen/ water cars purported to be on the market (just like electric cars)... but not until they're done with oil obviously. but don't argue that the techs not been here forfuckingever.