What do you think is the Prime Motivator of Man?

[BangkokB]

I used to think for about a year or so that Fear & Greed were the Prime Motivators.
You can really have a field day with Fear and take that ball and run with that one for a spiked touchdown. Fear of loss, fear of regret...The list is endless

Then a wild card has recently reared it's head: Not giving a Fuck. I'm guessing that Not Giving a Fuck would not necessarily be a motivator but quite possibly the polar opposite. But in and of itself would be complete freedom. Sure, the life expectancy timeline is, or should be, greatly reduced but penny for your thoughts.

[TurdBerglar]

getting pussy

[BangkokB]

That leads into the Fear of not getting Pussy. Or possibly steps into the bounds of Greed of wanting all pussy.

[TurdBerglar]

nah man

just plain old fashion pussy

[TurdBerglar]

getting pussy

keeping pussy

providing for pussy

that's what motivates man above all things

[BangkokB]

I disagree.

Actually with a passion.

Are you talking about being a proprietor of Pussy? Because that boldly steps into the grounds of Greed. Because then you have encroached upon Payment of Services, which is of in itself Greed.

Goddammit! I was actually hoping for some sort of answers here. This is a question that has literally tormented me for years then the "Not Giving a Fuck" entered the arena and shook it on it's head making me give that a good listen. I believe there are many people in history that once they hit the "Not Giving a Fuck" Point that was when they made their mark

[M|X|Y]

the world would fall to pieces if everyone just all of a sudden lost all interest in sex

[BangkokB]

I firmly believe that fear of loss encompasses sex

Like I said "Fear" is wonderful weapon

[gbsuey]

You could turn anything on its head to mean fear, i don't think it's necessarily the prime motivator. Initially need would be have been everything, the need to hunt and eat, the need to reproduce, the need to protect, and shelter.I think it was only as we evolved and things like language and other communication became prevalent that fear came into it. Fear of lack of food from rivals, or fear of other people's beliefs etc. Nowadays we've come so far any number of things could be a prime motivation. Greed and fear and need and love and hate. Not giving a fuck is not a motivator. Necessity is the mother of invention,or curiosity, unless you're talking about heated baby wipe holders or musical cake knives when sheer fucking small minded stupidity comes into it.

[M|X|Y]

listen to turdburglar

[MC Moot]

What Maslow said and my first year prof drove into my head (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg)...

[M|X|Y]

what is the eating, sleeping, breathing for?

that graph is missing a level at the bottom.

[Bob]

What Maslow said and my first year prof drove into my head (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg)...

i don't think sex should be at the bottom level. without food, breathing, drinking, excretion, etc you literally aren't alive anymore but you don't die from lack of sex. if you did it would have happened to me at some point. maslow must have had a permanent boner if sex was that important to him

[M|X|Y]

But you wouldn't be alive to eat, sleep and breathe if it weren't for sex.

[MC Moot]

Sex drive,particularily with regards to the inherent need to reproduce,is a major motivational factor...ensuring blood lineage,producing heirs capable of providing when one is past their prime and emotional/physical reciprocation are needs as basic as they get...

[Bob]

Sex drive,particularily with regards to the inherent need to reproduce,is a major motivational factor...ensuring blood lineage,producing heirs capable of providing when one is past their prime and emotional/physical reciprocation are needs as basic as they get...

as basic as eating breathing sleeping drinking and shitting though? if you stop doing those things you die, if you never get laid again you're basically fine. a little mopey perhaps, maybe even occasionally a little unbearable to be around, but still alive. it isn't a need in the same way food and water and breathing are. hell, i would even argue that you can go longer without sex than you can go without a job or money in terms of satisfying your basic needs

i mean yeah, saying the drive to procreate is a major motivational factor or whatever sounds smart and great but i just don't see how you can put sex on the same level as breathing and eating in terms of physiological survival needs. people die from starvation and freezing and suffocation and bowel obstructions and explosive hydration-annulling diarrhea all the time, but it's pretty rare to die from blueballs. the idea of procreation and blood lineage and all that are important, sure, and a major driving factor in the things that people and animals do, but needs as basic as food and water, things that you literally die from lack of if you don't get from the moment you're born to the moment you die? i don't see it, sorry.

maybe everybody else just started having it when they were younger and just assume that you die without it or something, i dunno, but it doesn't work like that, i'm telling you

[TurdBerglar]

all of civilation is because dudes want to fuck bitches


guy builds house so he can convince a bitch to hang out with him. over the years houses get better and better.

another guy builds roads so he can get to work in other places. over the years roads get better and better.

another guy builds a bridge so he can go to work on other side because bitches love guys that work. over the years bridges get better and better.

another guy builds sewer system to keep home clean and safe for bitch and baby. over the years sewer systems get better and better. things become cleaner and cleaner. bitches love clean shit.

another guy builds mass transit system so he can use other guys' bridges and roads to get to work faster. over the years mass transit gets better and better.

so on and so forth after thousands of years you get shit like new york city. all because of pussy.

[TurdBerglar]

you eat, breathe, sleep and shit in order to fuck.

[Bob]

speak for yourself

[TurdBerglar]

im speaking for humans in general. not individuals.

[M|X|Y]

I'd say living beings in general. Without procreation (and being born) there is no eating, sleeping or breathing to be done.

[like2_drink]

as basic as eating breathing sleeping drinking and shitting though? if you stop doing those things you die, if you never get laid again you're basically fine.

If you stop having sex, you are not basically fine; your genealogy dies with you. I don't think that fact is getting enough support as a motivational factor to keep slappin pissers.

Eat/drink, sleep, and have sex!

[Bob]

im speaking for humans in general. not individuals.

well i didn't vote for you

[Bob]

anyway if we're talking about humanity as a species, ok, that's different, i have no comment on that, but i was just taking issue with maslow's hierarchy of needs, which is about the needs of the individual

the idea of procreation and genealogy and your heritage dying out is such a separate concept from starving to death, i still don't think that sex belongs on that bottom level.

besides, when most people are fucking, they're not thinking "must...preserve...lineeeeaaaauuuuuuHHHHHHHH" they're just horny and it feels good. not the same as getting a glass of water so you can survive another day

[TurdBerglar]

almost everything a guy does that isn't done to directly satisfy a basic servival urge is done because of sex.

hobbies for instance. almost all male hobbies include atleast one of the following: competition, strategy, physical exertion. when any other animal are doing those things it's for sex. we're not different than any other animal. we're not some special supreme being. hobbies are sex replacement. and work is done to help you live, fuck, and provide for family. since we can't always be going around trying to get laid, we gotta replace those urges with something else to feel satisfied. that feeling of bordom is to get you off your ass to get some pussy. we just can't be running around and fighting over pussy all the damn time. then it'd just be chaos.

[M|X|Y]

By that logic most people aren't thinking "I'd better eat, sleep and breathe so i can go an get some sex"... If sex isn't had, no one gets born. you need to be born to sleep, eat or breathe - first things first.

[M|X|Y]

Chicken, egg, etc...

[Bob]

By that logic most people aren't thinking "I'd better eat, sleep and breathe so i can go an get some sex"...

well yeah, that kind of is my logic :confused:. we don't do those things to have sex, we do those things to survive. sex isn't something we do for survival (as an individual) it's something that we do for other reasons. i'm not saying it's not an important reason, i'm saying that is isn't the same thing as individual survival.

if you're not born, you don't get anything. if you don't have sex, no one gets born. you need to be born to sleep, eat or breathe - first things first.


that's all true, but as an individual, you don't need to have sex to be born, your parents do. and once you're born, you need to eat sleep shit drink breathe and stay warm to survive. you don't need to have sex. the pyramid is about the individual's needs, not the individual's parent's needs or the species' needs and in that context i don't think sex belongs on the same level as actual literal survival needs.

sure, if you don't have sex, you don't procreate, you don't have kids, your genealogy dies out, but you, as an individual, the thing that the pyramid assesses the needs of, do not die, like you would if the other needs on the bottom level of the pyramid were missing.

look, i'm not saying sex isn't a big driving factor in the things that people do. i'm saying that it's not a survival need the same way that the other things on the bottom of the pyramid are.

i mean i think turd said it more succintly than me just now:

almost everything a guy does that isn't done to directly satisfy a basic servival urge is done because of sex.

there's a difference between the things you as an individual living thing need to do to survive and the things that you as an individual living thing need to do be fulfilled or happy or whatever. food water sleep air homeostasis and excretion are survival needs, they're the basic things you need to do to remain a living thing. sex is something different and i don't think it belongs on the same level. you can live without it, you can't live without the others. in that way the others are an individual need on a far more basic level than sex.

[TurdBerglar]

at the most basic leve there's no reason to be alive if you're not gonna reproduce. and those intinctual urges are still very prominent in us.

[Bob]

well there's not reason to be alive if you're not gonna reproduce.

that's one opinion

[Bob]

i mean, let's say you go to the doctor tomorrow and the doctor says "turd, you're sterile, you will never reproduce"

do you go home and kill yourself or do you get a glass of water at some point?

[TurdBerglar]

and if you're not reproducing you're helping others to reproduce by providing a service to your community.

[TurdBerglar]

it's all basic intinctual urges. everyone is alive to fuck or help others to fuck. you keep yourself alive for those reasons.

[Lex Diamonds]

Since when was Bob the resident sexpert?

The fact is sex is a human requirement. It creates, defines and to an extent controls life on this planet. The desire argument is a stupid one- obviously the humans who enjoyed reproducing/eating etc. are the ones who we all descended from. You don't think "Oh good I'm eating, won't die for another couple of days" or "Better sleep so I don't collapse and die" when you do those things either, but thanks to evolution and conditioning you want to do them anyway.

[Bob]

it's all basic intinctual urges. everyone is alive to fuck or help others to fuck. you keep yourself alive for those reasons.

i just don't agree with that. if that were true, then people who didn't have sex or reproduction in their future would just lie naked outside in a race to see which natural cause kills them first, but that doesn't usually happen, they keep themselves alive anyway because it's something we're instinctually primed to do, on a far more basic and primal level than fucking

i'm not exactly sure what you mean by "helping others to fuck" but if that were true then it has nothing to do with sex as an individual need because the individual isn't having sex.

[TurdBerglar]

almost every job is there to provide a service to help people live. if you're working in any way shape or from, you're helping people to live so they can fuck.

your instincts don't know what you're brain knows. how is your instincts gonna know you're never gonna get laid or help in reproducing.

[Bob]

Since when was Bob the resident sexpert?

as someone who's been eating drinking sleeping shitting and staying warm for far longer than he's been fucking i feel like i'm quite qualified actually

The fact is sex is a human requirement. It creates, defines and to an extent controls life on this planet. The desire argument is a stupid one- obviously the humans who enjoyed reproducing/eating etc. are the ones who we all descended from. You don't think "Oh good I'm eating, won't die for another couple of days" or "Better sleep so I don't collapse and die" when you do those things either, but thanks to evolution and conditioning you want to do them anyway.

but sex isn't a "requirement" on the same level as the others. i know i sound like a broken record here but you'll die if you don't get food water etc. you do not die from lack of sex. hence my argument that it's not as basic a "requirement" for an individual human being to fulfill.

just to break the record a little more, i'm not saying and never have said that sex isn't a big deal. i'm saying that food and water are bigger deals

[TurdBerglar]

but you're alive to reproduce! that's the only reason to be alive!

[Bob]

but you're alive to reproduce! that's the only reason to be alive!

i think we're officially talking in circles now

[Lex Diamonds]

as someone who's been eating drinking sleeping shitting and staying warm for far longer than he's been fucking i feel like i'm quite qualified actually



but sex isn't a "requirement" on the same level as the others. i know i sound like a broken record here but you'll die if you don't get food water etc. you do not die from lack of sex. hence my argument that it's not as basic a "requirement" for an individual human being to fulfill.

just to break the record a little more, i'm not saying and never have said that sex isn't a big deal. i'm saying that food and water are bigger deals
You seem completely incapable of thinking of human life as anything more than you yourself feeling hungry and tired. That's not how living things work, bro. Sex is just as important as eating, breathing and sleeping to humanity, end of story.

[Bob]

You seem completely incapable of thinking of human life as anything more than you yourself feeling hungry and tired. That's not how living things work, bro. Sex is just as important as eating, breathing and sleeping to humanity, end of story.

sometimes i can't tell the difference between when you're acting like a dick just because you think it's funny or when you're actually just being a dick

you came in late and you're missing a ton of points; if you're really interested in talking about this, go back and read the posts in the thread, including the ones where i said that i understand that sex is an important driving factor for humanity (like the one you quoted) so you can get a feel for what we've actually been arguing about, not what you seem to assume we've been arguing about

if you're just being a dick because you think it's funny or otherwise, then it would be super cool of you to stop because it isn't funny and it was a real nice discussion we had going on there for a while before you came in and dicked it up

bro

[Lex Diamonds]

Someone can't take being proven wrong...

[checkyourprez]

for men at least.


fucking.



its gotta be. you can perform an experiment to test this. when a hot girl walks by, instead of watching her, watch the guys around you. when she walks by you almost all of them will look at her ass. as she walks towards you they will check out her face/tits.

it is a primal urge.


every girl that walks by if shes decent, sometimes even if shes not, most dudes think about fucking them.

[Bob]

Someone can't take being proven wrong...

just being a dick then, is it

[like2_drink]

This thread was started by a philosophizer, and perhaps carried on by one as well (lookin' at you Bob..Lookin' at you:p)

I think it is on the same basic level; you need to eat or you starve and die off, you need to sleep or you go insane and you die off, and you need to have sex or you don't reproduce and you die off (and you waste your time). And shit, don't forget to shit.

Fact: fucking makes you live longer.

[Bob]

well just to dial it back a bit, the main question was "what is the prime motivator of man" and i never attempted to answer that, i just kind of sidetracked everything because MC moot mentioned maslow's hierarchy of needs and i opined that sex didn't belong on the bottom rung with the other basic needs, that's all i've been saying this whole time

and if you want to be scientific about it, i would propose this experiment

take 70 babies

10 of them aren't allowed to eat

10 of them aren't allowed to drink water

10 of them aren't allowed to sleep

10 of them aren't allowed to have sex

10 of them aren't allowed to excrete

10 of them aren't allowed to homeostasisize, however you do that

10 of them aren't allowed to breathe

come back to these babies after 35 years and reevaluate the bottom level of the hierarchy of needs and tell me whether or not sex shouldn't get promoted to a higher level is all i'm saying

[like2_drink]

60 dead babies and 10 suicidal ;)

I take it back, you're a comedian Bob!

[TurdBerglar]

but babies are sex

[Bob]

again, just talkin bout the hierarchy here and in that context the only needs at issue are the individual babies' and the babies don't need to have sex to make themselves. how the babies got here is irrelevant

[TurdBerglar]

babies are still the process of sex. they're not people yet. taking care of offspring properly is still all about sex.

[Bob]

yet again, i'm only talking about the individual babies' needs and then their individual needs as individual adults once they individually grow up as individuals. not talking about the parents' sex or the process of sex or anything like that, i'm talking about the individual babies, and the individual babies don't individually need to have sex to individually live in the same way that they need the rest of the needs. sex is on a different level

[Kid Presentable]

but you're alive to reproduce! that's the only reason to be alive!

Why choose not to have children, then?

[TurdBerglar]

even if you're not having children your main function in life is to help the rest of society or your comunity to raise children/reproduce. pretty much every job is there to provide a service that makes it easier to raise children. enless your job is a job that's purely for leisure or luxury. those leisure/luxury jobs are there to help reduce stress so others can get back to work faster.

not every wolf reproduces in a pack. but they all help with the raising and the protecting of the offspring directly or indirectly. humans are no different. unless somehow you're completely off the grid(no job, no family, apart of no community) and it's only your life you're worried about. which doesn't happen very much.

[abbott]

getting pussy

getting dick sucked

etc...

[checkyourprez]

This is also the prime motivator of "man", not infants.

The stuff beinng mentioned like sleep, shitting, eating, ect are not motivators so much as they are necessities.

(Eating it somewhat tricky, because most everyone here takes it for granted. But for many people around the world it is a primary motivator, just to stay alive. However, when you pass a certain point socially you no longer have to worry about this in my opinion)


However, sex, is something that makes people do many things. Families are ruined, people are murdered, rapes are commited, along with other haneous crimes because of the sexual drive of human beings. Not just bad things happen though, people work hard to make money for sex (to provide for a spouse, or to get money/status to be able to get the opposite sex), they spend hours in the gym looking good for the opposite sex, they do things they don't want to do in hopes of sex.

This IS the primary motivator of man because it must be. The urge MUST be strong, or we die as a species.

[Bob]

The stuff beinng mentioned like sleep, shitting, eating, ect are not motivators so much as they are necessities.

exactly! and all i've been saying is that sex isn't a necessity the same way those other things are, it's on a different level of "needs"

[fonky pizza]

funny how nobody talks about love!

[M|X|Y]

I'm thinking on a biological level. I don't believe the drive to live comes mostly from the conscious mind but from instinct and the way our brains are wired.

I look at it as living to sleep or sleeping to live, living to eat or eating to live, living to breathe or breathing to live...

Or a dumber way of looking at it as an analogy, you don't buy a car to put gas in it, to rest it or wash it... you buy it to drive it, somethin like that.

We're born to grow, reproduce and die.

[TurdBerglar]

funny how nobody talks about love!

love is just a trick your brain plays on you with chemicals to get you to fuck more.

[HAL 9000]

What an interesting thread!

My view:

For a species to succeed (as all living species have) its members must be well suited to produce the greatest number of viable offspring. By viable I mean that it is no good producing offspring unless they have the resources and chance to produce lots of offspring themselves.

This means that humans, like other species look for partners with attributes that signal fertility, access to resources and good health.

However, while I think that widespread reproduction is the hallmark of a successful species member, I suspect it is not the prime motivator, like Bob points out, you dont get to the point of getting laid unless you can eat, sleep and reach sexual maturity. Sexual fitness is the consequence of a successful human but I doubt it is the prime motivator.

It is a hard question but I would suggest that the prime motivator is to be better/fitter than the next guy, a better mate, better looking, more healthy, wealthier, more resources, etc. Getting laid is a natural consequence of achieving this but is not necessarily the prime motivator.

[saz]

turd is right.

bob just wait until you hit your thirties. make that dirty thirties.

[Bob]

all i'm talking about is this though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg

and at the bottom there's this basic, basic, basic level of needs that an individual human being needs to fulfill before any of the other driving forces kick in

if you don't breathe, you die
if you don't eat, you die
if you don't sleep, you die
if you don't shit or piss, you die
if you don't drink water, you die
if you don't stay warm when it's freezing or stay cool when it's scorching, you die

but if you don't have sex, you.................?

all i'm saying is that one of these things is not like the others. i've lived this, i feel like i'm the only one who knows what i'm talking about

[checkyourprez]

all i'm talking about is this though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg

and at the bottom there's this basic, basic, basic level of needs that an individual human being needs to fulfill before any of the other driving forces kick in

if you don't breathe, you die
if you don't eat, you die
if you don't sleep, you die
if you don't shit or piss, you die
if you don't drink water, you die
if you don't stay warm when it's freezing or stay cool when it's scorching, you die

but if you don't have sex, you.................?

all i'm saying is that one of these things is not like the others. i've lived this, i feel like i'm the only one who knows what i'm talking about

But if everyone doesn't have sex, we all die and that's that.


His question is about prime motivators, not prime needs.

[Bob]

i know! like i said a bunch of times, i was engaged in a side conversation based on mc moot addressing the question with maslow's hierarchy of needs and my opinion that sex didn't belong on the same level of needs as the other basic survival needs and nobody seemed to agree with it but at this point i'm beginning to think nobody actually understands my argument despite the fact that i've explained it about 12 different ways

just talkin bout maslow here and the fact that nobody ever died of virginity

[Guy Incognito]

i have things i could say about the needs issue but am not nearly as articulate as others in this excellent thread so i'll just say the word "programming".

and to answer the original question I will be surprised that money hasnt come into all this, i know other factors are why people want money but i think its powerful enough to take over.

My prime motivator is making sure my kids are healthy etc. and that is pretty much opposite of not giving a fuck.

[Lex Diamonds]

I studied Masow for my Economics degree and found that, even economically speaking, sex is just as important a motivator as anything else for human life. The issue of its vitality to actually not dying is completely irrelevant to this thread and the heirarchy itself, I don't understand why that even got brought up.

[Kid Presentable]

I studied Masow for my Economics degree and found that, even economically speaking, sex is just as important a motivator as anything else for human life. The issue of its vitality to actually not dying is completely irrelevant to this thread and the heirarchy itself, I don't understand why that even got brought up.

You were given a remit to read about other people's ideas on the topic and cobble together an appreciation for it. So was I. On that basis.......

Numerous iterations of the pyramid define the lowest level of needs as physiological, or survival needs without qualifying 'sex' as a specific part of that subset. It just so happens that Moot's example did, and that suits your point of view. Nothing silly there. But, as many examples as there are of the hierarchy including sex, there would be at least as many excluding it.

The hierarchy is fundamentally and 100% about what is motivating the individual. Yeah, strictly speaking it's the wrong thing to bring into a discussion about an entire species, but it does hold absolutely true in its application to what will motivate an individual to survive, and I venture that in such a case sex belongs in the 'comfort' field. There are many things that would motivate an individual ahead of sex. So it makes sense to apply the hierarchy in such a way.

The one and same wikipedia article defines physiological needs on the first level as 'the literal requirements for human survival. If these requirements are not met, the human body simply cannot continue to function'. I only cite wikipedia since it has sparked this whole discussion, but it is absolutely correct of Bob to argue such (not that he needs me to say it).

I think that the people saying without sex there would be no individual(s) are not on the Maslow bus, but are coming at it from another angle altogether.

[Kid Presentable]

In response to the thread question, I absolutely think it's competition which motivates man as an individual, and it is that which has shaped the species.

[checkyourprez]

i know! like i said a bunch of times, i was engaged in a side conversation based on mc moot addressing the question with maslow's hierarchy of needs and my opinion that sex didn't belong on the same level of needs as the other basic survival needs and nobody seemed to agree with it but at this point i'm beginning to think nobody actually understands my argument despite the fact that i've explained it about 12 different ways

just talkin bout maslow here and the fact that nobody ever died of virginity

well quite hijacking the thread bob islamabad!!

[TurdBerglar]

In response to the thread question, I absolutely think it's competition which motivates man as an individual, and it is that which has shaped the species.

competition for sex?


competition for resources?


competition for resources i think is directly related to sex. you need resources to raise offspring. the more resources you have the more appealing you are to a potention mate.

[Kid Presentable]

competition for sex?


competition for resources?


competition for resources i think is directly related to sex. you need resources to raise offspring. the more resources you have the more appealing you are to a potention mate.

The more mates you have, the more resources you will invariably need.

[MC Moot]

all i'm talking about is this though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg

and at the bottom there's this basic, basic, basic level of needs that an individual human being needs to fulfill before any of the other driving forces kick in

if you don't breathe, you die
if you don't eat, you die
if you don't sleep, you die
if you don't shit or piss, you die
if you don't drink water, you die
if you don't stay warm when it's freezing or stay cool when it's scorching, you die

but if you don't have sex, you.................?

all i'm saying is that one of these things is not like the others. i've lived this, i feel like i'm the only one who knows what i'm talking about

Oh I hear ya Bob...it's also important to remember that the base evidence and study focus of the theory was based on psychological interviews conducted with "healthiest 1% of the college student population."...so,some consider the control group for the study to be altogether to specific to Maslow's perspective...I know I did originally anyway's...;)

[checkyourprez]

take a look at all these people, who are eating fine, sleeping fine, shitting fine, with great jobs, hold power, are famous....and fuck up their lifes/careers for sex.


swazenagger, chris hansen, spitzer, wiener, clinton, and numerous other people who recently (and through history) who have risked everything...just to bust a nutt.

[Echewta]

I'm pretty sure its freckles for me.

[Bob]

You were given a remit to read about other people's ideas on the topic and cobble together an appreciation for it. So was I. On that basis.......

Numerous iterations of the pyramid define the lowest level of needs as physiological, or survival needs without qualifying 'sex' as a specific part of that subset. It just so happens that Moot's example did, and that suits your point of view. Nothing silly there. But, as many examples as there are of the hierarchy including sex, there would be at least as many excluding it.

The hierarchy is fundamentally and 100% about what is motivating the individual. Yeah, strictly speaking it's the wrong thing to bring into a discussion about an entire species, but it does hold absolutely true in its application to what will motivate an individual to survive, and I venture that in such a case sex belongs in the 'comfort' field. There are many things that would motivate an individual ahead of sex. So it makes sense to apply the hierarchy in such a way.

The one and same wikipedia article defines physiological needs on the first level as 'the literal requirements for human survival. If these requirements are not met, the human body simply cannot continue to function'. I only cite wikipedia since it has sparked this whole discussion, but it is absolutely correct of Bob to argue such (not that he needs me to say it).

I think that the people saying without sex there would be no individual(s) are not on the Maslow bus, but are coming at it from another angle altogether.

so i'm not crazy then. phew.

anyway to answer the question of the original thread i'd probably say "sex"

[Jane*]

I'm pretty sure its freckles for me.

Cute!

Have only men responded to this post?

[Dorothy Wood]

take a look at all these people, who are eating fine, sleeping fine, shitting fine, with great jobs, hold power, are famous....and fuck up their lifes/careers for sex.


swazenagger, chris hansen, spitzer, wiener, clinton, and numerous other people who recently (and through history) who have risked everything...just to bust a nutt.


I think that propagating the idea that sex is a prime motivator allows men like that to convince themselves it's natural/normal to want stray. I think it's an excuse to behave immaturely and selfishly. And behaving selfishly does not serve humanity, or preserve the species.

In addition, plenty of fat/poor/ugly/stupid people procreate, and procreate often. So why would sex be the sole motivator for people to do anything? if you can get laid with minimal effort, why would it continue to be a motivator for living or producing?

People love having sex, it's true, but I think people love safety and security more. Just because most of you guys are young and horny, doesn't mean the whole world revolves around your dicks. People grow and get older and they depend on friendships and partnerships, creativity and leisure to survive and feel fulfilled.

[checkyourprez]

I think that propagating the idea that sex is a prime motivator allows men like that to convince themselves it's natural/normal to want stray. I think it's an excuse to behave immaturely and selfishly. And behaving selfishly does not serve humanity, or preserve the species.

In addition, plenty of fat/poor/ugly/stupid people procreate, and procreate often. So why would sex be the sole motivator for people to do anything? if you can get laid with minimal effort, why would it continue to be a motivator for living or producing?

People love having sex, it's true, but I think people love safety and security more. Just because most of you guys are young and horny, doesn't mean the whole world revolves around your dicks. People grow and get older and they depend on friendships and partnerships, creativity and leisure to survive and feel fulfilled.

we are only animals.

marriage was just about property back in the day.

[checkyourprez]

just because humans have evolved socially doesn't mean that we have changed that much instinctively.

mans natural instincts and hormones encourage him to want to have sex. having sex feels good for a reason. to encourage it to be done. to ensure the species progresses.

[TurdBerglar]

I think that propagating the idea that sex is a prime motivator allows men like that to convince themselves it's natural/normal to want stray. I think it's an excuse to behave immaturely and selfishly. And behaving selfishly does not serve humanity, or preserve the species.

In addition, plenty of fat/poor/ugly/stupid people procreate, and procreate often. So why would sex be the sole motivator for people to do anything? if you can get laid with minimal effort, why would it continue to be a motivator for living or producing?

People love having sex, it's true, but I think people love safety and security more. Just because most of you guys are young and horny, doesn't mean the whole world revolves around your dicks. People grow and get older and they depend on friendships and partnerships, creativity and leisure to survive and feel fulfilled.

sex is also the prime motivator for women just as much

[Dorothy Wood]

nah, I think your mindset is trapped in what your hormones are telling you at this time in your life, your age group and the kinds of people you interact with. so you're not able to grasp the fact that many people are able to control themselves, or don't even have urges that were ever that strong in the first place. these people aren't repressing their urges, they're making the choice to not act on every impulse.

I mean, walking around, I might think of how it'd be really fun to just punch a stranger in the mouth , or I stare at some girl's ass because she's wearing leggings and it looks terrible and i can almost see her vagina from behind, and I want to scream, "I CAN SEE YOUR VAGINA!" at her...but I don't.

because that would be rude. an easier and more pleasurable way to live is to find things that make you feel good that don't depend on hurting, betraying or annoying someone.

[TurdBerglar]

i think you're interpretting me too directly and individually to how i'm thinking about this.

everything people do in life is to pretty much find someone to fuck that doesn't annoy them too much and raise a family with them. raising a family is all apart of sex. that's what all of society is based upon. that's almost everyone's main goal. that's what people go to school for closed to 20 years then work for the rest of their lives. to have the resources and knowlege to raise a good family(sex). everything in the human world would fail if all this attention wasn't placed onto attempting to raise good families(sex). it's all subliminal/instinctual.

if we as humans didn't care this much about sex we wouldn't have shit. we'd either have gone extinct or at the very least still be living in the trees.

[TurdBerglar]

pretty much what im saying is sex urged man to create society. and that society is man's biggest most important accomplishment/motivation.

almost everything you do that isn't pure leisure is to help build upon society. all these advancements we have made for ourselves compared to any other animal is so we can have more successful fucking.

[BangkokB]

What Maslow said and my first year prof drove into my head (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg)...

I'm sure this will be up to debate I disagree w/ the "Morality" that was the chart topper due to many behind the helm that are the movers and shakers behind the curtain being Titans of Industry/Commerce they entrench themselves in toss that Morality Clause on its collective head.

I've lived in BKK for 10+ years and have seen more times than not the ones at the top have a disdain for those underneath to the point that they have no problems at all clogging over and keeping down. *EDIT* So then that brings about the question of for this being a Buddhist country the PTB seem to toss the baby out with the bathwater on that one. Because, surely, wouldn't they "know" that the actions taking the here and now would bring about dire consequences in their next hurrah. The other side of the coin are the poor Buddhists, which from the outside looking in, come across as some of the kindest selfless people that you'd ever come across. However, here's the rub: IMO they're doing that to score points for their next hurrah. Now we've gatecrashed into the whole religion topic that seems to be taboo or met w/ no interest. But that IMO plays a HUGE Part in the Motivation of Man.

Don't know if that's been touched upon, beat up, talked at great length or not at all because I just logged in and haven't read other replies.

Religion being Prime Motivator of Man is not stepping into new ground. Far from it. Religion encompasses mainly FEAR and Greed ie I do more for the here and now for that better/bigger palace in the hereafter. The Golden Rule to me seems to get lost in the shuffle of the deck. Which, IMHO, is the crux of the whole shebang for all Religions as a whole.

My take on the Christian religion is guided by Fear with a heavy dash of Guilt mainly. The Buddhist religion comes across as on of the finest philosophies I've ever tapped into. However, the motives which seem to be the backbone of all the religions I've briefly waded into selflessness(Golden Rule) seems to be the forefront of message. The Buddhist's are strange in a sense in that the rich come across as the biggest assholes I've ever met. With little to no regard to those around them. The poor, however, come across as some of the nicest people you'd ever meet. But here's the rub, there is an ulterior motive...They are looking to score points in their hearafter. I spoke w/ another friend on this and he says that's not isolated to religions but that rich, by and large, are assholes with an unjustified sense of deserving that seems as if it was lifted from a Dale Carnegie book.

Judaism: Well, I'll let you draw your own conclusions on that one. Seems like a Members Only club to me in my 39 yrs experience. But the Old Testament appears to me as a collection of Jewish fairytales

For me to say one thing or another about Muslims would both show my ignorance of their religion and lack of understanding. So that is one powderkeg I won't touch.

[BangkokB]

Now, sometime last year I touched upon this with my best friend and he's forgotten more than I'll know and his answer was the Pleasure/Pain Principle. I like Fear & Greed better. Particularly Fear. But P/P can give it a run for its $

That would encompass the Fucking that one board member in particular seems to have a fascination with.

[BangkokB]

I also noticed the Self Actualization on the Maslow Pyramid Scheme and I think this may hit a few chords on the Morality Chart Topper as well...

What I hit on with a friend of mine some 9+months back was that, though I haven't dropped Acid in some 15+ years, there's a point that when you've come to the end of the trip that you really make a breakthrough. And for a brief moment EVERYTHING seems so clear. I sent this email out sometime last year.
Warning it's long but keep in mind that I sometimes go weeks w/o contact with noone other than the better half so when I fire off the occasional manifesto they tend to be long.

"I have to say that I tend to agree with you that those sorts(psychologists and their ilk) are by and large a waste of time, space $ etc. The only one I ever met was so out of touch with the world that was around me that I saw in short order that route would not lead to any significant breakthrough. But surely there has to be someone out there in the great wide world that is qualified to be some sort of trip guide. And not some hippy bullshit free love asshole that's out of touch with reality but someone that their goal is to use it and guide it for mental enlightenment. I haven't tripped in 15+ years but I've been on more trips than a newly retired aristocratic couple and do remember that towards the end of every trip there was some sort of moment where everything and all the answers to life and the world around became clear as a bell. Then I'd lose it. If I could go through that again and then write down or better yet record that epiphany moment then that could possibly be of the utmost benefit. I'm not of sound mind right now to go on any trips solo: Which quite frankly was the only way I ever liked tripping. Once it would start coming on I'd usually break away from the pack and do my own thing. I know I'm probably grasping at straws but hell at this point I'm just about willing to try anything and that's probably the best idea I've had in sometime in as far as to making a breakthrough of breaking the ongoing pattern.

There was some Russian cunt named Ayn Rand who wrote a book titled Atlas Shrugged probably some 50 years back. Her philosophy in a nutshell was do nothing for anyone else. Help only yourself. By helping others you're actually hurting them. I hate to say it but I think my surroundings of the homeless and seeing children beggers, in particular, day after day has me thinking that does have some merit to it. That's a bottomless pit that no matter how much you give you'd still see them the next day and in all likelihood they are working their way up to being prostitutes(or maybe already are- I shutter at the thought). So in cases like that I see how giving is actually counterproductive. But I strive to want to be a better person that would be able to help cure the cause itself rather than the momentary situation. However, at this particular moment in life I have my own problems so I do an about face eyes forward and walk past like I don't see them. Now follow me on this: I think most of the extremely well heeled go full tilt with that line of thinking and feel what's mine is mine and yours is mine. Unbridled greedy people w/ a dash of sociopathic tendencies, sadly, tend to be the most successful people in life: At least that's my take on it. A very good study case would be look at the Walmart family. Look at the amount of $ they throw around to keep employees submissive while they live in their bubble. Or the amount of $ that has gone directly from the worker bees to the CEO's ever since Reagan dreamed up that bullshit fallacy of trickle down. I see that alot here. And really tried my damnedest to get out of that whole circle. I used to believe in some sort of cosmic justice but I'm very skeptical about that now.

....and then I meandered onto some other things but came back to

"Which brings me back to full circle in that wouldn't it be nice to find a positively focused trip guide that could help with some sort of road map of life on an LSD trip? Someone who could enlighten one on the patterns that need to be broken and the strengths that need to be used that a person may not even know they have. Otherwise I honestly believe that the pattern of suck and fail will continue unless I make some changes(that I don't know) from within in order to break the pattern and get my "do over"."

Interestingly enough, I read an article a few weeks back that psychologists/psychiatrists are once again entertaining this very notion of LSD/psychotropics . In all likelihood in a more progressive country somewhere in Europe.

[checkyourprez]

nah, I think your mindset is trapped in what your hormones are telling you at this time in your life, your age group and the kinds of people you interact with. so you're not able to grasp the fact that many people are able to control themselves, or don't even have urges that were ever that strong in the first place. these people aren't repressing their urges, they're making the choice to not act on every impulse.

I mean, walking around, I might think of how it'd be really fun to just punch a stranger in the mouth , or I stare at some girl's ass because she's wearing leggings and it looks terrible and i can almost see her vagina from behind, and I want to scream, "I CAN SEE YOUR VAGINA!" at her...but I don't.

because that would be rude. an easier and more pleasurable way to live is to find things that make you feel good that don't depend on hurting, betraying or annoying someone.

i disagree.

look at the people i mentioned earlier...schwarzenegger, clinton, spitzer, wiener, chris lee, ect. all of these were already way out of my age range when they did what they did.

[Schmeltz]

For a species to succeed (as all living species have) its members must be well suited to produce the greatest number of viable offspring.


The species that have succeeded (or that have survived to the present day) are not simply those which have evolved the capacity to produce the largest numbers of viable offspring, but those which have evolved on the basis of productive roles within more or less specific ecological niches. A group of rabbits will produce enormous numbers of viable offspring in a relatively short timespan, but if these numerous offspring quickly deplete their resources and starve to death they could hardly be called "successful." For a species to truly succeed it must pair procreative virility with balanced contextual ecological function.

This undercuts the position of those attempting to reduce humanity's primary motivators to nothing more than biology. Humanity has not lasted this long because we breed mindlessly like rabbits, but because we are able to define and create our own dominant ecological niche through our abilities of abstract thought, reason, and other mental processes. If we abandon those principles and simply continue to sexually reproduce with no thought to the consequences of doing so, we will outgrow our niche, collapse the resources that sustain us, perish from the earth, and cease being a successful species.

Hence, Turdberglar is directly wrong to claim that

sex urged man to create society. and that society is man's biggest most important accomplishment/motivation.

And anyway, sex didn't produce civilization, alcohol did. Nothing stops the members of less technically sophisticated societies from having all the sex they want, and humanity's initial transition from nomadic hunter-gatherers to settled agriculturalists necessarily involved radical principles of social reorganization that had little if anything to do with sex. There was one thing available to the earliest civilizations that was not available to their less advanced neighbours, however, and that was a steady, guaranteed supply of booze. The prospect of being able to regularly get wasted was ultimately the push that was needed to tip our forebears over the edge.

Human civilization has nothing to do with some kind of subconscious drive for more successful procreation and everything to do with the potential to get loaded on the regular. Even the medieval monastic orders who devoted themselves to celibacy - societies with no sexual behavioural component at all - never abandoned the production of alcohol. Dorothy is right. You'll grow out of it eventually.

[Bob]

And anyway, sex didn't produce civilization, alcohol did.

i can't tell if this is a joke or a real theory with books and papers written about it. if it's the latter i'd like to read them because that sounds fascinating

[TurdBerglar]

If we abandon those principles and simply continue to sexually reproduce with no thought to the consequences of doing so, we will outgrow our niche, collapse the resources that sustain us, perish from the earth, and cease being a successful species.

isn't that what's happening right now?

there's no indication of our population growth slowing down... and no indication of our resources magically replenishing.


and i would figure alcohol being directly related to having free time. the free time to produce it. it's not an easy thing to make. free time is created by having a more advanced society/civilization. no?

people in less sophistacted societies/civilizations didn't have the time to lounge around and figure out how to make alcohol. they were too busy trying to keep themselves alive on a daily basis.

[TurdBerglar]

i can't tell if that alcohol thing is a joke as well

[Dorothy Wood]

i disagree.

look at the people i mentioned earlier...schwarzenegger, clinton, spitzer, wiener, chris lee, ect. all of these were already way out of my age range when they did what they did.

sure, but perhaps not so far out of your age range mentally.

I'd also venture to say that these men are narcissists, and though they are prominent figures, you can't say that any of them can be compared to a common man anyway. Their stature and behavior is outside of the norm.

Men don't destroy their own lives or the lives of others because of sex...they destroy lives because they lack control of instinct; which is, in my opinion, weak. They might be powerful, but they sabotage themselves and their reputations in the eyes of the majority of people for a reason. Not because they're pervs or anything, but because they lost control, they hurt people. Saying, "men just like to fuck" or whatever doesn't excuse the behavior. Men can like to fuck, that's fine, but why be a coward and stray...just don't commit in the first place. Know yourself, and if you're a sex maniac, then have sex with a million people, but don't lie to some chick about it because you think society wants you to have a wife. Basically, grow up.


Sex is what it is, sexual repression in our puritan society is what has placed so much importance on it. Honestly, men just seem to be lazy and to want to find any excuse for acting exactly how they want, so they don't get in trouble.



Anyway, Schmeltz had a lot more specific things to say, so listen to that guy.

[jackrock]

Come on guys obviously the goal is to spread our genetics and perpetuate the species to the point where we create and perfect cold fusion energy source, where we'll build a star fleet and travel to the centre of the galaxy (join our ancestors who seeded our planet with amino-acteroids) and be recruited into the Great Inter-Dimensional War that's been waged for trillions of infinite years.
Everything else is semantics, luxury, or perhaps useful in the first task,

[Schmeltz]

there's no indication of our population growth slowing down

Actually, birthrates across the globe have dropped dramatically in recent decades. There are some countries where the birthrate doesn't even equal the death rate. Women around the world are choosing to have fewer children in order to pursue education and career opportunities. Kind of gives the lie to the notion that reproduction is the driving factor in everyone's decisions, no?


and no indication of our resources magically replenishing.

You're right about that one.

and i would figure alcohol being directly related to having free time. the free time to produce it. it's not an easy thing to make. free time is created by having a more advanced society/civilization. no?

people in less sophistacted societies/civilizations didn't have the time to lounge around and figure out how to make alcohol. they were too busy trying to keep themselves alive on a daily basis.

The earliest agriculturists would have had much, much less free time than their hunter-gatherer ancestors; a group of primitive hunters could feed themselves and their families with something like an hour's work a day, while primitive subsistence agriculture must necessarily have depended on endless hours of backbreaking physical labour. And anyway, alcohol actually is a pretty easy thing to make: so long as you can create the conditions under which grain or fruit will ferment, it basically makes itself. Of course you have to have a supply of grain or fruit handy to begin with - hence agriculture, and civilization.

Yes, this is a joke, but it's got a much more solid theoretical basis than the idea that civilization comes from people fucking. It's ridiculous. People could fuck as much as they wanted in the days before civilization arose to impose limits on who you can fuck, and where, and when. Civilization actually impedes fucking.

[TurdBerglar]

i'm not so much emphasizing on actual intercourse or inviduals. it's all about the urge to have family and safe community for family. that urge is brought upon for successful procreation(raising offspring). almost everything that has ever been created or invented is directly or indirectly for family and to make it easier to have smart and healthy and protected off spring. it has completely molded everything about us.

that whole urge to have someone and to have family(love) is sex. it's just some evolutionary trick to get you to fuck and bond and work together to do whatever it takes to keep your offspring safe. having someone is generally everybodies biggest concern. everyone is pretty much capable to be self reliant in the modern world. yet people still desire to a very large degree to have someone and help each other live. there's really no real need to have someone anymore other than for sex. lonelyness is just to get you off your ass to find someone to fuck and have kids with. having someone seems to be the biggest driving force along with being successful. the urge to be successful is just there so you can help with your (potential)family more effeciently.

everything is about family. family is sex. sex makes family.

[Kid Presentable]

Your prime motivator, Turd, seems to be de-emphasising the importance some people place on family. I mean, you have a point in what you're saying, but these things are not the main motivations of individuals or society. They are certainly the key outputs (home, community, family etc) of sex and relationships, but sex and relationships are but one facet of life as a human being. A facet which you view with some disdain (I understand why and agree to a point, fyi).

If sex and communities were a key motivator for our survival, why then is the sustainability of our current existence such a big issue? If we keep pace, we are not going to survive. It then stands to reason that something else would have to become our key motivator. Doesn't it?

[TurdBerglar]

what are the main motivations

[Bob]

maybe it's different for everybody

some are out for sex

some are out for money

some are out for power

some are out for heroin


we can try to sort out what is the prime motivator for the species as a whole, but then if you find someone who doesn't appear to be motivated by that, how do you explain it? "you're being human wrong"? "you are, but you just don't know it"?

maybe there's no one answer. maybe we're more complex than that.

[TurdBerglar]

i see nothing wrong with the "being human wrong" option.

[Schmeltz]

Bob's got it. I don't think it's reasonable or insightful to attempt to reduce the complexity of human history and society to something as mundane and banal as "family is sex. sex makes family." It seems very plainly evident to me that our cultural evolution has informed our current condition much more than our hereditary biological impulses have. The fact that Western culture is founded on sexual monogamy seems to shoot Turd's whole theory to pieces. There's a lot more to it than simple procreative instinct.

[Kid Presentable]

what are the main motivations

Food, shelter, warmth, makin poos - all that essential physiological shit. Then I think it becomes competition as the needs of others interact with and impact on your own needs.

[TurdBerglar]

The fact that Western culture is founded on sexual monogamy

this is what im talking about! this is the best situation for reproducing!

[TurdBerglar]

Food, shelter, warmth, makin poos - all that essential physiological shit. Then I think it becomes competition as the needs of others interact with and impact on your own needs.

so basicaly it's to stay alive. but why say alive? what purpose does saying alive give you? why are we so urged to stay alive? you're instinctually urged to stay alive to reproduced.

if no one had those urges to stay alive we wouldn't exist because not enough people would stay alive long enough to fuck!

[Bob]

this is what im talking about! this is the best situation for reproducing!

more wives = more kids though

[Kid Presentable]

so basicaly it's to stay alive. but why say alive? what purpose does saying alive give you? why are we so urged to stay alive? you're instinctually urged to stay alive to reproduced.

if no one had those urges to stay alive we wouldn't exist because not enough people would stay alive long enough to fuck!

Self-preservation always starts within, and yeah might manifest itself externally by encompassing reproduction. But even if you never reproduce, you will be doing your level best to ensure your own survival.

[TurdBerglar]

more wives = more kids though


but the time and resources are spread thinner on raising the kids to be good productive people.

[TurdBerglar]

Self-preservation always starts within, and yeah might manifest itself externally by encompassing reproduction. But even if you never reproduce, you will be doing your level best to ensure your own survival.

if you don't reproduce it's not because you don't wanna fuck. it's either because you chose not to or you failed at it. every normally functioning person has gotten horny. there's absolutely no reason for any species to be alive if that species is not gonna reproduce.

we're aware of ourselves but we're still just a highly extended chemical/electrical reaction like every other living thing. reproduction is the continuation of that chemical reaction. the contination of humans is what is most important to US as a people/species. if no one contintued and passed down the knowlege and ideas we have obtained there wouldn't be anything modern! sex is what makes the continuation happen!

[Kid Presentable]

if you don't reproduce it's not because you don't wanna fuck. it's either because you chose not to or you failed at it. every normally functioning person has gotten horny. there's absolutely no reason for any species to be alive if that species is not gonna reproduce.

we're aware of ourselves but we're still just a highly extended chemical/electrical reaction like every other living thing. reproduction is the continuation of that chemical reaction. the contination of humans is what is most important to US as a people/species. if no one contintued and passed down the knowlege and ideas we have obtained there wouldn't be anything modern! sex is what makes the continuation happen!

Sex doesn't pass down knowledge - knowledge is passed down to the byproducts of sex. Doesn't make sex the reason for being, it's just a process. As Schmeltz said, it seems like continuation of humans isn't most important to us currently, as the needs of the individual would appear to be taking precedence. Also, 'survival' has now taken on the requirement of being sustainable.

[TurdBerglar]

but our inate instincts don't know that

[Kid Presentable]

Our innate instincts are what, though? Survival is one, and that takes us right back to the beginning.

People can keep fucking forever, but we have found countless ways to manage our innate instincts, particularly if, as you claim, our innate instincts are what really motivate us. More specifically if that one innate instinct to reproduce is what motivates us. We've got that one under control.

I'm not denying its presence, I just think that there has probably always been a point where humans reached their maximum capacity and a different, self-limiting, innate instinct kicked in and managed the numbers on our behalf. Be it war or contraception, religion, whatever. Because extreme numbers in your tribe just make it harder to compete, ultimately.

[TurdBerglar]

containing that sexual urge as lead to many other important bahaviors/motivations.

[Kid Presentable]

containing that sexual urge as lead to many other important bahaviors/motivations.

Well then it's not the primary thing that motivates us.

[TurdBerglar]

yeah it is. it's the catalyst.


ok im done for now

[Myu-to]

all i'm talking about is this though:
but if you don't have sex, you.................?

Masturbate.

A whole lot.

[M|X|Y]

i think that the problem here is some people think that the motivator is a choice and others think its something that's automatic and programmed into our minds.

[Dorothy Wood]

turd's just never been in love.

[Myu-to]

Turd: A Love Story

[TurdBerglar]

turd's just never been in love.

uh yes i have. what does that have to do with anything against what i've said?

love is just an instinctual motivator to get you to hang out with someone, fuck their brains out and keep hanging out with them afterwards to help raise the offspring.

there's no need for love if there's no chance of sex. that's why most people dont' fall in love with the same sex.

[Myu-to]

And here I thought it was because the thought of a dude shoving his dick in my ass wasn't appealing.

[abbott]

ok, so I thought about this and truth is when I was in my early 20's my biggest motivation was ... will she be a good mom, can I marry her, and is she hot, then is the bedroom stuff good too.

I think I found it and she has not left me yet so its all good.

Now my wife can motivate me with offers of fishing trips, golf outings and/or sexual acts so she can get what she wants... Like going to Beverly Hills in Augest with the family staying at the Hyatt...

no kidding, the thing I am most thinkfull for is how great of a Mom she is to my kids but I think our marrage has made it with a good heathy relationship in the bed also....

[checkyourprez]

ok, so I thought about this and truth is when I was in my early 20's my biggest motivation was ... will she be a good mom, can I marry her, and is she hot, then is the bedroom stuff good too.

I think I found it and she has not left me yet so its all good.

Now my wife can motivate me with offers of fishing trips, golf outings and/or sexual acts so she can get what she wants... Like going to Beverly Hills in Augest with the family staying at the Hyatt...

no kidding, the thing I am most thinkfull for is how great of a Mom she is to my kids but I think our marrage has made it with a good heathy relationship in the bed also....

how did she get to be one?


bam.

[Dorothy Wood]

uh yes i have. what does that have to do with anything against what i've said?

love is just an instinctual motivator to get you to hang out with someone, fuck their brains out and keep hanging out with them afterwards to help raise the offspring.

there's no need for love if there's no chance of sex. that's why most people dont' fall in love with the same sex.

I just think it's more complex than that. sexuality is a very complicated thing and you're speaking very broadly about it. what you're saying makes sense for some people, but I wouldn't say all or even most....

the more I think about it, I believe that the prime motivator is pleasure. and the most natural source of awesome pleasure lies in the orgasm. but a woman doesn't need to have an orgasm to make a baby. and two gay dudes can spooge a million times and never make one.

people dedicate their lives to God and remain celebate, in hopes of gaining ultimate peace in the afterlife. which would also be pleasure, because there'd be an absence of pain.

I dunno man, I don't feel a drive to have kids, yet I feel drive to help all people not be sad or stupid.

It's not that I don't understand that sex underlies a lot of the decision-making in this world, I just think it's an instinct that's been co-opted and used to manipulate the public.

people plan and/or ruin their lives over drugs too, but you can't sell drugs on tv. you can't inspire a visceral response by showing a picture of a pile of coke to a an unwitting stranger, but show him a picture of tits, and maybe he'll buy something from you.

[M|X|Y]

mostly, the drive to live is not something that you have control over.

if nature wanted us to just live (love, play, eat, etc), we wouldn't die. our nature is to facilitate making more of ourselves - everything in nature that supports life is in pursuit of that.

this is why people and animals die for their offspring. they are willing to die so that their copies may live on to reproduce. animals, like salmon, who almost literally commit suicide to make sure there are more salmon to live past their own unavoidable mortality.

[TurdBerglar]

im speaking very broadly about it because we're not as complicated as a lot of people think. we're no different than other animals. we're not some special supreme being like we've been taught for thousands of years. if i were talking about some other animal no one would disagree with me. we're animals too!

that drive to have sex is the drive to have kids. you don't have a drive to have sex? before we could think for ourselves and understand the process of reproducing, that drive to fuck and love was there to trick us into reproducing. it was through the course of natural selection and evolution that the ones that had the higher internal drive to fuck and love and care and obtain resources for their offspring made the most sucessfull babies. thus making individuals with those instinctual behaviors more common and dominating. those dominating instincts are still burried deep within us and are very active.

they're so active and strong and reckless a lot of people need religion to contain them. isn't most of religion dedicated to keeping people from acting out on these instinctual behaviors? transfering all that energy into more effecient resourcefulness? if so couldn't you say the worldwide importance of religion was created because of these instincts?

nearly everything we have created as people was created in order to protect our kids or to more easily obtain resources for them. if that drive in us wasn't so immensely strong we would not have the desire to create all that we have. the drive for pleasure i see more as a drive for peace of mind. because it stops the worrying. the inate worrying to protect ourselves and mostly our young and obtain resources for them.

if sex wasn't so important to humans why are human females one of the VERY few mamalian females to even be able to have an orgasm?

[Dorothy Wood]

mostly, the drive to live is not something that you have control over.

if nature wanted us to just live (love, play, eat, etc), we wouldn't die. nature is designed to facilitate us making more of ourselves - everything in nature that supports life is in pursuit of that.

this is why people and animals die for their offspring. they are willing to die so that their copies may live on to reproduce. animals, like salmon, who almost literally commit suicide to make sure there are more salmon to live past their own unavoidable mortality.


Animals also abandon and/or eat their offspring, and humans have been committing infanticide since the beginning of existence (http://infanticide.org/history.htm). and some of the most war-torn and impoverished countries have the highest rates of population growth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_growth_rate





Personally, I think that sex is a function of life, not an all-encompassing driving force. And I'm willing to bet a lot of women feel that way too, and women are just under half the population. You guys are thinking very personally and within in this specific time period and societal structure. Humans have, for thousands of years, followed instincts to cut down the population, and have slaughtered each other mercilessly. Not just enemies, but family members, children...defenseless children. and so to say they did that to facilitate a nurturing environment for some future newborn baby, is absurd.

I believe at their essence, humans are driven to create. Through creation we find pleasure as our reward. This, yes, includes creating life. Because that's the ultimate creation, something infinitely complex. And it does offer the purest sense of joy I can think of... so, some (not all)people will always want to keep doing it.


Ultimately, I'm saying all of this because if I never had sex again, I would be fine. and people do that all the time. My maternal grandfather passed away 29 years before my grandma died, and she remained single and celebate afterward. She was an awesome grandmother, and a wonderful writer, and influenced my life and well-being in a lot of ways. Two of my friend's mothers are in their 60's and single and have been for at least 20 years, and have normal fulfilling lives without partners of any kind and seem perfectly content. Perhaps because the men they made kids with were pains in the ass and they were relieved just to have some peace after all those years of dealing with bullshit.


It just really doesn't make sense that sex is the prime motivation for the general population of humans on this entire earth. I bet you I could find plenty of people who would choose all kinds of things over sex. Anything from a nice dinner to....video games, surfing, skating, performing, a sports event, etc. etc.

Sure, doing those things or getting good at them may have a side effect of getting you more sex if you become exceptional at it...but in the end, isn't the motivation the task itself?

[TurdBerglar]

It just really doesn't make sense that sex is the prime motivation for the general population of humans on this entire earth. I bet you I could find plenty of people who would choose all kinds of things over sex. Anything from a nice dinner to....video games, surfing, skating, performing, a sports event, etc. etc.

Sure, doing those things or getting good at them may have a side effect of getting you more sex if you become exceptional at it...but in the end, isn't the motivation the task itself?

we only have these things because of the technology and knowlege we've created for ourselves to make it easier to reproduce....


creation comes from having free time. free time comes from all the things we've created to help our young survive.

[Dorothy Wood]

we only have these things because of the technology and knowlege we've created for ourselves to make it easier to reproduce....


creation comes from having free time. free time comes from all the things we've created to help our young survive.

how do iPhones help our young survive?

[TurdBerglar]

how do iPhones help our young survive?

well doesn't it (potentially) make your life easier? more time for baby? that's kinda the idea of all tehcnology. even technology strickly for play is filled with the same parts that were originally invented soley for work.

iphones are fill with technology created by governments used to protect it's population(its young). the technology just slowly trickled down to the civilian population\consumer over the years and now we have people with free time to create luxury items(free time is a luxury) using all the hard work set forth by people creating things to help keep people safe and happy.

[checkyourprez]

I just think it's more complex than that. sexuality is a very complicated thing and you're speaking very broadly about it. what you're saying makes sense for some people, but I wouldn't say all or even most....

the more I think about it, I believe that the prime motivator is pleasure. 1. and the most natural source of awesome pleasure lies in the orgasm. but a woman doesn't need to have an orgasm to make a baby. and two gay dudes can spooge a million times and never make one.

people dedicate their lives to God and remain celebate, in hopes of gaining ultimate peace in the afterlife. which would also be pleasure, because there'd be an absence of pain.

2.I dunno man, I don't feel a drive to have kids, yet I feel drive to help all people not be sad or stupid.

It's not that I don't understand that sex underlies a lot of the decision-making in this world, I just think it's an instinct that's been co-opted and used to manipulate the public.

people plan and/or ruin their lives over drugs too, but you can't sell drugs on tv. you can't inspire a visceral response by showing a picture of a pile of coke to a an unwitting stranger, but show him a picture of tits, and maybe he'll buy something from you.

1. exactly my point! the most pleasurable thing for our species (especially baaaack in the day when we were hunter gatherers trying to survive as a species was....fucking! there was not a lot of interesting things to occupy their time, other than trying to stay alive, when we first started out as a species.) it was encouragement to fuck and spread the seed, especially in a time when the species known as homosapien could literally be just another bunch of bones in the fossil record.

you are looking at it from the standpoint of a human living in an advanced society in 2011. biology and hormones and instincts and all that has not changed much since those times back then, just our social connections, moral evolution, and scientific and educational advances.

however we still are genetically and instinctively the same animal, we just have a much more complex society that likes to think its above our animalistic tendencies (and like i've stated in some ways we are, we no longer club a woman and go have our way with her like a caveman. we first need to go to a club and buy her drinks and then she lets us have our way with her. ;) kidding but kinda not really).


2. you dont have a desire to have kids, but you do still have a desire to have sex. the desire to not have kids is one a woman in 2011 can freely make, but thats only because of the evolution of our society. if you lived elsewhere in this world today, you may not have a choice, or you may not have a way to prevent it. along with this example, if you were born in a difference period of time in the human scale of evolution you probably would not think like that. you had kids, thats just what you did. to help out with farming and to just literally continue the species if you take it back far enough. along with the same reasoning as the previous example i gave about being born in a different place in the world today in 2011, through history there was for the most part no birth control, i dont know off hand how long abortion was around but im pretty sure that was not a viable option until recently, and you may have just been forced to have them.

[Dorothy Wood]

1. exactly my point! the most pleasurable thing for our species (especially baaaack in the day when we were hunter gatherers trying to survive as a species was....fucking! there was not a lot of interesting things to occupy their time, other than trying to stay alive, when we first started out as a species.) it was encouragement to fuck and spread the seed, especially in a time when the species known as homosapien could literally be just another bunch of bones in the fossil record.

you are looking at it from the standpoint of a human living in an advanced society in 2011. biology and hormones and instincts and all that has not changed much since those times back then, just our social connections, moral evolution, and scientific and educational advances.

however we still are genetically and instinctively the same animal, we just have a much more complex society that likes to think its above our animalistic tendencies (and like i've stated in some ways we are, we no longer club a woman and go have our way with her like a caveman. we first need to go to a club and buy her drinks and then she lets us have our way with her. ;) kidding but kinda not really).


2. you dont have a desire to have kids, but you do still have a desire to have sex. the desire to not have kids is one a woman in 2011 can freely make, but thats only because of the evolution of our society. if you lived elsewhere in this world today, you may not have a choice, or you may not have a way to prevent it. along with this example, if you were born in a difference period of time in the human scale of evolution you probably would not think like that. you had kids, thats just what you did. to help out with farming and to just literally continue the species if you take it back far enough. along with the same reasoning as the previous example i gave about being born in a different place in the world today in 2011, through history there was for the most part no birth control, i dont know off hand how long abortion was around but im pretty sure that was not a viable option until recently, and you may have just been forced to have them.


read this thing about infanticide: http://infanticide.org/history.htm


blargh, I don't have time to expand on my point right now! gotta go drink some water, and get some sleep, so I stay alive so I can be healthy so I can procreate some day. ;)

[TurdBerglar]

yeah because soooooo many people killed their babies. obviously

[Kid Presentable]

mostly, the drive to live is not something that you have control over.

if nature wanted us to just live (love, play, eat, etc), we wouldn't die. our nature is to facilitate making more of ourselves - everything in nature that supports life is in pursuit of that.

this is why people and animals die for their offspring. they are willing to die so that their copies may live on to reproduce. animals, like salmon, who almost literally commit suicide to make sure there are more salmon to live past their own unavoidable mortality.

If there is no food available, a mother bear will eat her cub. The logic being, if she dies, the cub dies too. But if she eats the cub, she might be strong enough to survive and one day have another.

This scenario would be caused by scaricity of resources, bought about by competition. Our first act as cells was to compete with other cells to reach a destination. It's hardwired into biology.

[checkyourprez]

read this thing about infanticide: http://infanticide.org/history.htm


blargh, I don't have time to expand on my point right now! gotta go drink some water, and get some sleep, so I stay alive so I can be healthy so I can procreate some day. ;)

i thought about adding some sort of disclaimer about baby killing or something to that effect where i talked about no abortion/birth control. but lets be honest, we do not get to 6 billion people in this world (give or take) if it was a really big problem.

[Dorothy Wood]

I'm just sayin, the creation is the thing. sex is the method to achieving creation, sex is motivation to create. but it's not the prime motivation.

turd, soooo many people did kill their babies.

In 1978, Laila Williamson, an anthropologist of the American Museum of Natural History, summarized the data she had collected on the prevalence of infanticide among tribal and civilized societies from a variety of sources in the scientific and historical literature. Her conclusion was startlingly blunt:
Infanticide has been practiced on every continent and by people on every level of cultural complexity, from hunters and gatherers to high civilization, including our own ancestors. Rather than being an exception, then, it has been the rule.



humans have a lot of instincts, intercourse is only one aspect of human survival. you said that humans are just animals like any other animal...but that's not true. it can't be true, because we created civilization, and no other animal has. humans are complex, it'd be nice to think we were all just fucking machines, so you don't have to address anything else...but I just don't think that's the case. humans are complex, very complex. I don't know how you can't know that.

[Dorothy Wood]

also, for cyp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control#Early_history

[checkyourprez]

ik babies were killed by people who knew they could not provide for them. its not secret. a baby is another mouth to feed.

[Dorothy Wood]

ik babies were killed by people who knew they could not provide for them. its not secret. a baby is another mouth to feed.


yes, which negates the idea that production of offspring is the main motivation of man. sometimes having fewer offspring benefits the species.

[Echewta]

Sometimes its difficult to wait for the second coming.

[TurdBerglar]

sometimes having fewer offspring benefits the species.

then why are they still motivated to fuck if it's a hinderence? obviously they're still fucking if they're killing babies. infanticide is a concious task. the motivation for sex is not at all concious. the absolute main motivators for life are all non concious. you don't deliberatly think about them. they're just quietly plugging away at the back of your head. back of the brain instincts. no one is really thinking about creating anything when they're fucking. they're just doing it because something is pushing them to do it.

civilization is just an evolution of dirt huts. prairy dogs make cities of underground dirt houses... with rules and regulations and leaders and waste systems and transit.... all so they can protect themselves and raise their young. at one point and time prairie dog cities were more complex then anything a human could create.

ours is just more grandiose because we happened to evolve larger brains and can use our hands with quite a bit of dexterity. but we do it all for the same reasons the prairie dogs do.

[like2_drink]

Holyshit; get a job, don't use the comp. for a few days, and 138 posts, fuckin' eh!

It may be needless to say, but I don't think I'm going to get caught back up in this thread..

With that said; I hope the 'fucking' argument is still going strong! Don't give up boys, woo! we got this!

[Dorothy Wood]

then why are they still motivated to fuck if it's a hinderence? obviously they're still fucking if they're killing babies. infanticide is a concious task. the motivation for sex is not at all concious. the absolute main motivators for life are all non concious. you don't deliberatly think about them. they're just quietly plugging away at the back of your head. back of the brain instincts. no one is really thinking about creating anything when they're fucking. they're just doing it because something is pushing them to do it.

civilization is just an evolution of dirt huts. prairy dogs make cities of underground dirt houses... with rules and regulations and leaders and waste systems and transit.... all so they can protect themselves and raise their young. at one point and time prairie dog cities were more complex then anything a human could create.

ours is just more grandiose because we happened to evolve larger brains and can use our hands with quite a bit of dexterity. but we do it all for the same reasons the prairie dogs do.


I was thinking the other day that maybe all the animals on earth were once human, but they evolved into more efficient beings. they evolved to communicate, feed, and protect themselves without the trappings of humanity.


anyway, the other day I took this topic to real life and asked my very smart therapist/social worker friend what she thought the "prime motivator of man" was, and she automatically said "fear, fear of death".

So, naturally, I agree with that because that seems to make more sense.

According to what you're saying, I can agree that intercourse was the prime motivation of early man, and spurred people to create civilization. but I don't agree that it remains the prime motivator; sure, it's still a nagging impulse, but so is violence. and it's easier to find someone to fuck than it is to find someone you can kill without getting in trouble. so people usually go with the fucking impulse.

I mean, everybody wants to murder someone, right? that's not just me...right?

:(