occupy wall street

[Turchinator]

Rally against corporate greed!

Tell everyone you know on google and facebook...

[valvano]

you'd be more productive participating in this

http://www.zombiewalk.com/forum/

[Turchinator]

obviously you are not a golfer

[Burnout18]

What an embarrassing movement. Totally disorganized, marching uptown to people's homes was an awful idea. Total invasion of personal property.

Railing against the rich, yet accepting Russell Simmons, kanye west and Michael moore into your rally? Fuckin, what are they saying millionaire artists are ok, but if you own a business, fuck you?

I don't get it and it's embarrassing that the occupy wall street protests have had more run ins with police than the gun carrying tea party. What the fuck.

[abbott]

wtf

[yeahwho]

It. Is. On.

Real people, people of all nationalities, all ages and all beliefs are occupying your city asking one legitimate question, where is our representative government?

Sort of makes the Tea Party look like, well, a tea party.

[kaiser soze]

no - it makes the tea party look like a bunch of gun toting, flag farting, corporate shills.

[ericlee]

I work for a big bank on Wall Street and yet, these people have no problems congregating inside of our atrium. Yeah, it's funny, almost half of them use macbooks when they hold their meetings.

[RobMoney$]

This about sums it up for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/RobMoney004/296869_10101380922282491_2066772_82601822_11569188 88_n.jpg

Once again, the ME generation displays a complete lack of personality and wants their great overlord "The Government" to take care of them.

There's a fortune to be made for anyone in the skull-cap and black-rimmed glasses business. Go to Wall St. NOW!!

[kaiser soze]

looks like that guy/woman wants a cookie!

Good to see this person isn't blaming wall street for their bad decisions. I don't think the protestors are blaming wall street or the Government for the protestors' bad decisions.

I think they are calling wall street and the Government out on their Bad decisions.

go tell it to this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmEHcOc0Sys&feature=player_embedded#!

[RobMoney$]

.

[kaiser soze]

nice edit - what was it about the unstable veteran again? PTSS? How do you know this?

but he wasn't thinking about himself -

I guess the cops suffer from something as well assaulting unarmed protestors - much worse than words, right?

anyways, people will protest - either with a gun slung over their shoulder or with carboard signs. This isn't just a bunch of kids complaining because they can't pay their smartphone bills, there are people who have worked and worked hard and lost jobs, pensions, benefits, homes, and dignity.

[RobMoney$]

Yeah, had second thoughts about making those accusations.
Figured it would be better left unsaid.

But then you went ahead and said it anyway.
Oh well.

[Dorothy Wood]

This about sums it up for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/RobMoney004/296869_10101380922282491_2066772_82601822_11569188 88_n.jpg

Once again, the ME generation displays a complete lack of personality and wants their great overlord "The Government" to take care of them.

There's a fortune to be made for anyone in the skull-cap and black-rimmed glasses business. Go to Wall St. NOW!!


I hate those fuckin' "I'm not the 99%" or "I'm the 53%" bullshit note pictures. Living frugally and working hard is admirable, but why is torturing yourself or limiting your options admirable?

I don't agree with everything the occupy people are doing. When I see the pictures, I see everyone walking around in clothes they bought from corporations, plastic beverage containers, signs they drew on paper made by corporations and sold by corporations.

I don't think the government should give people hand outs, but I DO think the government should invest in education and healthcare. and I think the banks and wall st should be regulated, and the people who played guessing and betting games on high risk loans and mortgages should be punished.

I think despite all the dorks out there pretending it's the 60's, the real intent of the protest, the ideals set forth by the majority are the ones I've stated. Sure, a bunch of dumb hippies want free everything, but that's not going to happen, and it makes me sad that they have to be around. But I honestly think they're the minority in this.

I'm mostly pissed about predatory lending...I mean, there was no reason I should've been approved for a $5,000 credit line when I was 19 years old. I was an idiot, and they knew it! And it's not fair to brainwash the public into blind consumerism, but it's been happening for decades.


I just think there should be more avenues to getting jobs. I want to learn how to make prosthetic limbs for soldiers, have for awhile, but I'd have to go back to school. I've been putting it off because even though I could do it with an associate's degree, it's still like friggin' 10s of thousands of dollars. Which I don't have, and I really don't want to incur any debt. So, I'm trying to think of ways to raise money. But it's depressing to think how few options I have for making that much money when it's pocket change to rich people. And I see how frivolous some wealthy people are...and just think "fuck you man, do something better/more interesting/smarter with that cash". It's not jealousy so much as frustration and confusion. I do a lot of artwork, and I have been trying to design something very mainstream to sell to idiots. Because that's how people make money with art. I see it every day. There are artists who make a living, a good living, making bullshit worthless terribleness...and idiots buy it. Idiot made it, idiot buys it. And well just because there are more idiots than smart people, doesn't mean the idiots are right.

The wealthy people of the generation of power right now, are mainly just idiots who found a way to collect money from all the other idiots. They collected the money, they didn't make it.


I'm just saying, this country is rich enough to provide education and healthcare. So people are free to focus on learning, and able to experience leisure, so they can be happier. So they choose careers that suit them instead of seeking the highest pay check. Because everyone's so angry all the time, and I don't really see why it has to be that way.

I just want to find a way to help people using my personal skill strengths. Because I'm happier when I'm helping people solve problems. There should be an easier way to create incentives for doing good. Selfishness is old and boring, can't everyone just calm down? geez.

[Turchinator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsJPKMvWDmY&feature=player_embedded

[yeahwho]

Unlike the $300 to $10,000 a plate dinners of the Tea Party and the $2million to $3million dollar political campaign visits by front runners both democrat and republican, occupy wall street is free.

Occupy wall street isn't making any specific demand. They are asking if you would like to join them for an all inclusive political discussion about corporate greed and lack of representative democracy.

It's undefined by natural process. Will it last? I think it will as long as it stays loose. The stereotypes I've been reading about and hearing are not syncing up with the reality of occupy wall street. Here in Seattle the goal has nothing to do with some sort of Utopian society. This is about an examination of the distribution of power/wealth and the adverse effect it has on the middle class and those who are really struggling just to have shelter. Some of our elected officials have attacked good paying jobs in the United States. We the people
need not be complicit when our elected officials allow the scales to harm us. So why not? Why not occupy Wall Street or Sesame Street?

And, Yes.
I write this on my iPad, in my 2007 Toyota with Conaco Petroleum products via a Verizon data plan. I also have cash in investment plans directly overseen by Wall Street. Am I a hypocrite? No and Fuck No! I am part of the decision making process of the United States of America, I do have a say in how my investments returns benefit or harm my Country. So does everybody, if someone else is satisfied with living well below their means so a few CEO's can gain leverage (them there job creators) hey good for you!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-J75nYHdDtik/To9K5HCyedI/AAAAAAAAHdw/3R_1-NCP2H8/s640/___evil.jpg

[yeahwho]

Oh yeah, forgot this link

http://www.tauntr.com/blog/occupy-sesame-street-gets-violent

[valvano]

This isn't just a bunch of kids complaining because they can't pay their smartphone bills, there are people who have worked and worked hard and lost jobs, pensions, benefits, homes, and dignity.

I think this guy lost his dignity a long time ago......:D

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/bizarre/occupy-wall-street-wanted-man-897430

[valvano]

I also have cash in investment plans directly overseen by Wall Street. Am I a hypocrite? No and Fuck No! I am part of the decision making process of the United States of America, I do have a say in how my investments returns benefit or harm my Country. So does everybody, if someone else is satisfied with living well below their means so a few CEO's can gain leverage (them there job creators) hey good for you!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-J75nYHdDtik/To9K5HCyedI/AAAAAAAAHdw/3R_1-NCP2H8/s640/___evil.jpg

so, assuming your are the direct owner of your investment and not part of an investment pool (money market, etc), then why dont you excercise your shareholder rights and attend a shareholder meeting and voice your complaints? after all, CEO pay is nobody's business but the CEO and the Board he reports too, just like your pay is nobody's business but you and whomever you report to at your job :confused:

[valvano]

no - it makes the tea party look like a bunch of gun toting, flag farting, corporate shills.

gun toting - you saying its wrong to excercise your rights under the 2nd ammendment?

flag farting - you saying its wrong to be proud of your country?

corporate shills - you care to review how much Wall Street threw Obama's way in the last campaign vs John O Cain?

[Turchinator]

it's spelled "amendment"

[valvano]

it's spelled "amendment"

spell check doesnt applie in the world of IMBs.








("apply" spelled wrong on purpose)

[Turchinator]

don't blame me for calling out your ignorance.

make excuses and defend your ignorance of the English Language all you want. when you constantly misspell words it shows lack of intelligence.

yes, even on Internet message boards.

now fuxk the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street.

[valvano]

don't blame me for calling out your ignorance.

make excuses and defend your ignorance of the English Language all you want. when you constantly misspell words it shows lack of intelligence.

yes, even on Internet message boards.

now fuxk the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street.

^ You failed to begin the first letter of the first word of your sentences with a capital letter. And I believe you misspelled a profanity, but not sure if that was a joke. But "c" and "x" are right next to each on a keyboard.

Be careful, your ignorance is showing.

:D

[Turchinator]

i said nothing about punctuation or grammar. your spelling is and has always been atrocious. cute response.

for such a high class citizen as yourself, this is unacceptable.

here's the Tea Party calling for a hiring moratorium.

http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blog/show?id=3355873%3ABlogPost%3A1566647&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_post

[valvano]

i said nothing about punctuation or grammar. your spelling is and has always been atrocious. cute response.

for such a high class citizen as yourself, this is unacceptable.

here's the Tea Party calling for a hiring moratorium.

http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blog/show?id=3355873%3ABlogPost%3A1566647&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_post

I know my spelling on here is bad. Do not care. I know others also here think faster than they type. But you instead decide to call me out on spelling, so I pointed out your own grammatical errors.

Shall I get you some Kleenex for your tears. :D

Could care less about the Tea Party, could care less about Occupy Wall Street.

[Turchinator]

well count this as the first time we agree on something valvano.

[yeahwho]

so, assuming your are the direct owner of your investment and not part of an investment pool (money market, etc), then why dont you excercise your shareholder rights and attend a shareholder meeting and voice your complaints? after all, CEO pay is nobody's business but the CEO and the Board he reports too, just like your pay is nobody's business but you and whomever you report to at your job :confused:

That seems like a reasonable and effective way to spend the day. You should try and get the word out about this.

You can call it "valvanos occupy none of your business how I make my money" movement or something like that.

[valvano]

if you are not a share holder of a corporation, then what business is it of yours what the CEO or elected officers make?

[Schmeltz]

valvano, what is your net worth? Are you a millionaire?

If not - why not? After all, you've spent years on the BBMB saying that people are always responsible for their own circumstances, except for when evil commie unions and gummints hold them down. So what's the deal - are you just a shoddy or lazy worker incapable of taking advantage of the manifold opportunities available to workers in your capitalist utopia? Are your union dues so high that you would be a millionaire if only you didn't have to pay them? Is your tax burden so unfair that it keeps you from rising to the top of the fiscal ladder?

Or - and I suspect this is the truth - are you just an undereducated fuckwit who holds everyone he meets in contempt and never thinks much about anything past his easy chair?

If you are indeed a millionaire, which I strongly doubt, then you might as well take off because nobody here in the real world has any time for your crap.

[kaiser soze]

if you are not a share holder of a corporation, then what business is it of yours what the CEO or elected officers make?

what business?

Maybe the business of the people working for that company, the customers of that company, the citizens and environment being affected by that company...

[valvano]

what business?

Maybe the business of the people working for that company, the customers of that company, the citizens and environment being affected by that company...

please justify how it is your concern what a CEO makes if you are not a shareholder or an elected official.

[kaiser soze]

when they're laying off workers, sending jobs overseas, dodging taxes, and ripping customers off - everyone should know what they are making

now back to the subject

Marines to Join OWS movement - That's how it is - Defending the Rights of the citizens.

http://occupymarines.org/

https://www.facebook.com/pages/OccupyMARINES/246310432083819

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmEHcOc0Sys&feature=youtu.be

[Schmeltz]

valvano, what is your net worth? Are you a millionaire?

Come on valvano, let's hear it. Why aren't you a millionaire? Why aren't you a CEO? Perhaps others here will justify their positions if you deign to justify yours first.

Put up or shut up, asshole.

[valvano]

my wife are both college graduates and professionals, she is a teacher, i am in the motor freight industry, and we do have a substantial investment with other family members in commercial real estate (not retail but warehouse / industrial).

and yourself?

[valvano]

when they're laying off workers, sending jobs overseas, dodging taxes, and ripping customers off - everyone should know what they are making

now back to the subject

Marines to Join OWS movement - That's how it is - Defending the Rights of the citizens.

http://occupymarines.org/

https://www.facebook.com/pages/OccupyMARINES/246310432083819

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmEHcOc0Sys&feature=youtu.be

do you think through your thoughts before you type them for the whole world to see how stupid you are? businesses moving jobs overseas and avoiding taxes.....maybe that is a sign that if taxes werent so high, then they might bring jobs and their capital back to the USA, or are you admitting that taxes are high and its no wonder they move jobs overseas??

if you owned a business, and you could save on taxes and improve your competiveness by moving some functions overseas, would you not do the same thing?

dude, you have to stop thinking with your feelings and start thinking with your brain.

[kaiser soze]

taxes high?

I guess you haven't seen what little corporations are paying in taxes in comparison to the rest.

how about for many - 0

[valvano]

taxes high?

I guess you haven't seen what little corporations are paying in taxes in comparison to the rest.

how about for many - 0

the only profitable corp I know that doesnt pay income taxes is GE, the lap dog corp of Obama. and they send jobs overseas. sounds to me like your beef is with Obama.

[Turchinator]

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;

Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death’s other Kingdom
Remember us—if at all—not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men

...

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

[Schmeltz]

my wife are both college graduates

Ah, that's why you're not a CEO.

we do have a substantial investment with other family members in commercial real estate[/QUOTE]

Well, those of us who actually have to work for a living in the real world resent your poorly informed smugness. Tell it to the shareholders. Nobody else is interested.

[RobMoney$]

valvano is the only one honestly discussing the issues and not just arguing for the sake of "winning" or being proven "right" because the majority echo his opinions.

and that's the reason this forum sucks.

[Burnout18]

Come on valvano, let's hear it. Why aren't you a millionaire? Why aren't you a CEO? Perhaps others here will justify their positions if you deign to justify yours first.

Put up or shut up, asshole.

Completely fuckin irrelevant. You don't have to be a fuckin multi millionaire to disagree with occupy wall street or think, that despite the ills of the system, capitalism is still better than any alternative.

Hey did they ever catch the rapist at occupy Cleveland? Fucking disgusting.

[yeahwho]

The undefinable "Occupy Wall Street" being defined by those who perceive it through media outlets from afar.

Shit is Fucked up and Bullshit

Must be a little something to it if the board is lighting up.

[Turchinator]

The undefinable "Occupy Wall Street" being defined by those who perceive it through media outlets from afar.

Shit is Fucked up and Bullshit

Must be a little something to it if the board is lighting up.

yeah, 40 days after the movement started it's finally building traction on the political forum here.


Shit Is Fucked Up and Bullshit just doesn't affect change in our country.


the blame the media game is getting old and tired too, just like in the Ron Paul camp.

[HAL 9000]

I agree with Valvano

[valvano]

Schmelz,
you never responded as to how you support yourself....

[yeahwho]

yeah, 40 days after the movement started it's finally building traction on the political forum here.


Shit Is Fucked Up and Bullshit just doesn't affect change in our country.


the blame the media game is getting old and tired too, just like in the Ron Paul camp.

sure, nothings going on

I agree with Valvano

What exactly are you agreeing with?

[Mil Mascaras]

I'm mostly pissed about predatory lending...I mean, there was no reason I should've been approved for a $5,000 credit line when I was 19 years old. I was an idiot, and they knew it!
This is exactly what this whole Occupy movement is about, blaming others for your own mistakes.

[RobMoney$]

I hate those fuckin' "I'm not the 99%" or "I'm the 53%" bullshit note pictures. Living frugally and working hard is admirable, but why is torturing yourself or limiting your options admirable?

I don't agree with everything the occupy people are doing. When I see the pictures, I see everyone walking around in clothes they bought from corporations, plastic beverage containers, signs they drew on paper made by corporations and sold by corporations.

I don't think the government should give people hand outs, but I DO think the government should invest in education and healthcare. and I think the banks and wall st should be regulated, and the people who played guessing and betting games on high risk loans and mortgages should be punished.

I think despite all the dorks out there pretending it's the 60's, the real intent of the protest, the ideals set forth by the majority are the ones I've stated. Sure, a bunch of dumb hippies want free everything, but that's not going to happen, and it makes me sad that they have to be around. But I honestly think they're the minority in this.

I'm mostly pissed about predatory lending...I mean, there was no reason I should've been approved for a $5,000 credit line when I was 19 years old. I was an idiot, and they knew it! And it's not fair to brainwash the public into blind consumerism, but it's been happening for decades.


I just think there should be more avenues to getting jobs. I want to learn how to make prosthetic limbs for soldiers, have for awhile, but I'd have to go back to school. I've been putting it off because even though I could do it with an associate's degree, it's still like friggin' 10s of thousands of dollars. Which I don't have, and I really don't want to incur any debt. So, I'm trying to think of ways to raise money. But it's depressing to think how few options I have for making that much money when it's pocket change to rich people. And I see how frivolous some wealthy people are...and just think "fuck you man, do something better/more interesting/smarter with that cash". It's not jealousy so much as frustration and confusion. I do a lot of artwork, and I have been trying to design something very mainstream to sell to idiots. Because that's how people make money with art. I see it every day. There are artists who make a living, a good living, making bullshit worthless terribleness...and idiots buy it. Idiot made it, idiot buys it. And well just because there are more idiots than smart people, doesn't mean the idiots are right.

The wealthy people of the generation of power right now, are mainly just idiots who found a way to collect money from all the other idiots. They collected the money, they didn't make it.


I'm just saying, this country is rich enough to provide education and healthcare. So people are free to focus on learning, and able to experience leisure, so they can be happier. So they choose careers that suit them instead of seeking the highest pay check. Because everyone's so angry all the time, and I don't really see why it has to be that way.

I just want to find a way to help people using my personal skill strengths. Because I'm happier when I'm helping people solve problems. There should be an easier way to create incentives for doing good. Selfishness is old and boring, can't everyone just calm down? geez.

This is exactly what this whole Occupy movement is about, blaming others for your own mistakes.


Every paragraph of Dorothy's "stream of conciousness" post began with "I"...It speaks volumes.

Me, Me, Me!

[HAL 9000]

What exactly are you agreeing with?


That CEO and other staff members pay is a matter for shareholders (assuming no one is being paid to break any specific rules, laws or regulations)

That his spelling is not relevant

That his personal circumstances have no impact on the validity of his arguments.

[yeahwho]

That CEO and other staff members pay is a matter for shareholders (assuming no one is being paid to break any specific rules, laws or regulations)

That his spelling is not relevant

That his personal circumstances have no impact on the validity of his arguments.

Isn't just about impossible to not notice the obscene disparity in a the corporate structure pay scale when it is publicly traded, don't you agree? I just have to do a simple search on marketwatch or any other stock page and the CEO's pay is there.

Those numbers are transparent. As the dwindling working class and working poor struggle to provide for their families. To me it's just bad socioeconomic sense or no socioeconomic sense.

To be rewarded for gutting a local economy and outsourcing to unregulated labor in a tax sheltered foreign Country seems to go against all the things the United States of America stands for.

As Lincoln said in his Gettysburg Address,

It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

I just don't agree, I think we've spent trillions of dollars on "Too Big to Fail" corporations, even those I was not a shareholder... against my will mind you and I should expect some transparency for participating when my tax dollars are being used to bailout criminals not yet prosecuted.

[yeahwho]

This is exactly what this whole Occupy movement is about, blaming others for your own mistakes.

Really if it was just that simple do you think a police state would constantly watch these citizens? It's much bigger than a few whiny college kids and anarchists.

Once Occupy Wall Street is granted the right to peaceably assemble, then perhaps OWS will be able to start blaming others. The mass arrests surrounding this movement should open up a few eyes, maybe make some think, Hey wait a minute these people aren't rioting. They're just peacefully protesting.

Police Fire Tear Gas at Occupy Protesters in Oakland (http://community.nytimes.com/comments/thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/police-said-to-fire-tear-gas-at-protesters-in-oakland-calif/?sort=recommended)

[Turchinator]

they don't have a right (permit) to set up tent cities and camp in those places, they are being asked to leave.

they have a right to peaceful assembly, sure, but putting the general health of the area at risk by camping out on public parks isn't the way to get their message across effectively.

[yeahwho]

they don't have a right (permit) to set up tent cities and camp in those places, they are being asked to leave.

they have a right to peaceful assembly, sure, but putting the general health of the area at risk by camping out on public parks isn't the way to get their message across effectively.

The jury is still out on the specifics of the crime and the police action taken. This is an importent enough story that every main stream media outlet has joined with the occupy twitterers to try and make some sense out of it.

It's good to be on the right side of history, the 400 richest people in the world don't make for much of a subscriber base.

[Burnout18]

This is exactly what this whole Occupy movement is about, blaming others for your own mistakes.

I think a lot of people from my generation tend to shift the blame. For everything. Its pathetic. Failed out? Teacher sucks. Got fired? Boss was a dick. Credit card debt? Blame the credit card company.

[kaiser soze]

they don't have a right (permit) to set up tent cities and camp in those places, they are being asked to leave.

they have a right to peaceful assembly, sure, but putting the general health of the area at risk by camping out on public parks isn't the way to get their message across effectively.

and teargas is healthy

this is quite nice as well - police throw flashbang grenade into crowd helping a severely injured Marine Vet shot in the head with a teargas canister

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ&feature=youtu.be

hope all their pensions dry up one day and then they will join the rest

[kaiser soze]

another video of the police flashbang attack on people helping an injured person

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqNOPZLw03Q&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fblogs%2 Fblogpost%2Fpost%2Foccupy-oakland-did-police-use-flashbangs-and-rubber-bullets-on-protesters%2F2011&feature=player_embedded

I hope that pig ends up sucking mud for the rest of their life - could have killed the injured Veteran

any apologist for this act of inhumanity is less than human.

[Turchinator]

I'm glad we are told what side of history we are supposed to be on. I'm not apologizing for riot squads, I am apologizing for city halls telling the campers they can't stay forever.


Occupy LA is about to be moved from City Hall.


(LA Mayor)Villaraigosa told the Los Angeles Times Wednesday that he respects the protesters right to peacefully assemble and express their views, but they must respect city laws and regulations.

He said he has asked city officials to draft restrictions limiting when people are allowed on city property.

Villaraigosa said county health inspectors have expressed concerns over the cleanliness of the camp. And, he says the demonstration is hurting the city's lawn and trees.

Oakland Mayor Jean Quan said the city supports the protesters' goals but had to act Tuesday when a small number of them threw rocks, paint and bottles at the police.

"We had, on one hand, demonstrators who tried to rush banks, other demonstrators saying don't do that, and we had police officers, for the most part, 99 percent, who took a lot of abuse," the mayor said. "So yesterday was a sad day for us."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/10/27/state/n024520D09.DTL#ixzz1bzkKbiVF

[Turchinator]

an email from OWS camp

Another march with Occupy Wall Street, this time for health care equality.

We went from Liberty Park (Zuccotti) to where St. Vincents used to be. It will be turned into condos and make tons of money for the management company.

The NYPD were amazing, courteous, jovial and professional.

Thanks Guys.

[valvano]

Its amazing to see the moochers coming out to join in the Occupy movement.

In NYC, we see "professional homeless" and other moochers causing havoc for those providing food to the "Occupy" people;

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_hell_kitchen_i5biNyYYhpa8MSYIL9xSDL

And in Richmond, VA, we see the Occupy folks squatting on public space for which other groups pay a fee to city when being used for demonstrations on the same space, etc....

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news/2011/oct/27/richmond-tea-party-says-city-gives-occupy-richmond-ar-1412408/


Of course, its also fun to watch anti-corporate demonstrators fight over money while others try to incorporate the anti incorporation struggles :rolleyes:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/10/in_downtown_portland_fears_tha.html

[valvano]

an email from OWS camp

once they get health care equality, will they next be getting clothing equality, then automobile equality, and then wifi and cellular connection equality?

[Turchinator]

well I posted that to show the cooperation with the NYPD...

my main problem with the groups protesting is their method of delivering their message: by setting up tent cities around the nation I do not believe they can achieve their goals.


to me, they are barking up the wrong tree. camping out on Wall Street or LA City Hall to rally against anything and everything possible just wont do it.

[yeahwho]

And many police departments, city halls and city workers have been more than cooperative. Seattle protesters left their occupied location after 3 weeks and moved to a different site on a community college campus in town. Not forcibly but by group conscious.

But this is a protest, it is a demonstration so obviously by definition it is not going to be agreeable to many. That said this is not the 60's, it is 2011 and the methods used are going to incorporate the current culture. This isn't about free love..... It's about an unfair advantage to the extremely monied on our planet.

Here is a quick piece by Matt Taibbi. Wall Street isn't Winning-It's Cheating

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-street-isnt-winning-its-cheating-20111025

[Whatitis]

This isn't about free love..... It's about an unfair advantage to the extremely monied on our planet.


Whats so unfair about being able to accomplish anything you wish in this country if you put your mind to it? Much like many successful people have. That is my biggest gripe on this whole movement. If they really want change, get into those positions and make it happen from within. They are coming off as a bunch of freeloading squatters. Much like the hippie movement of the 60's.

[yeahwho]

[QUOTE=Whatitis;1776004]Whats so unfair about being able to accomplish anything you wish in this country if you put your mind to it? Much like many successful people have. That is my biggest gripe on this whole movement. If they really want change, get into those positions and make it happen from within. They are coming off as a bunch of freeloading squatters. Much like the hippie movement of the 60's.[/]

Your reply quotes my post but also ignores my post. Weird.

[valvano]

don't you know that the whole Occupy movement is not about equal opportunity, its about equal results. No matter how hard you work, how much you take advantage of the opportunities presented to you in life, now matter how much capital, time, and energy you risk to getting ahead in life, no matter how much blood, sweat, and tears you put into a venture, whether a business or a career.........it is unfair and greedy to make more money, get more out of life, and to be more successful than somebody who sat on their ass and waited for somebody else or some govt program to solve their problems, who failed to take advantage of the opportunities presented to them. its just not right that they opted to study some bullshit major in college like social work or journalism, that they decided to follow the latest jam band instead of the stock market or newest technology or business trend, that their laziness and ineptness has prevented them from advancing in their careers, that they are saddled with the debt that they agreed to take on, its not fair that others have suceeded while they have failed. its just not fair. those people are greedy. :rolleyes:

i also find it extremely funny that the same kids protesting on college campuses for "living wages" for the custodial staff and other special causes are at the same time whining and bitching about the student loan debt they must carry for their overpriced college tuition

[yeahwho]

don't you know that the whole Occupy movement is not about equal opportunity, its about equal results. No matter how hard you work, how much you take advantage of the opportunities presented to you in life, now matter how much capital, time, and energy you risk to getting ahead in life, no matter how much blood, sweat, and tears you put into a venture, whether a business or a career.........it is unfair and greedy to make more money, get more out of life, and to be more successful than somebody who sat on their ass and waited for somebody else or some govt program to solve their problems, who failed to take advantage of the opportunities presented to them. its just not right that they opted to study some bullshit major in college like social work or journalism, that they decided to follow the latest jam band instead of the stock market or newest technology or business trend, that their laziness and ineptness has prevented them from advancing in their careers, that they are saddled with the debt that they agreed to take on, its not fair that others have suceeded while they have failed. its just not fair. those people are greedy. :rolleyes:

i also find it extremely funny that the same kids protesting on college campuses for "living wages" for the custodial staff and other special causes are at the same time whining and bitching about the student loan debt they must carry for their overpriced college tuition

Are you even remotely aware that there is a global recession? Has this not registered in your neck of the woods?

Late-2000s financial crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_financial_crisis)

The people of Occupy Wall Street are not mentioned as perpetuating this crisis. This movement would like to address the above crisis and find a way to avoid this style of rape again.

[valvano]

Are you even remotely aware that there is a global recession? Has this not registered in your neck of the woods?

Late-2000s financial crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_financial_crisis)

The people of Occupy Wall Street are not mentioned as perpetuating this crisis. This movement would like to address the above crisis and find a way to avoid this style of rape again.

so its about how unfair it is that those who saved their money, invested it wisely, failed to get in debt over their heads, failed to take on mortgages they couldnt afford, its unfair that they are holding their own the best they can while those who were on shaky ground to begin due mostly to their own actions, those who took on mortages with no ability to repay, those who thought govt would take care of them when times got tough, those who are upset that somebody else is doing better than they are, that its okay that we demand even more from the 54% who already pay income taxes to support the 46% who are the professional freeloaders in society?

do you not recall the Aesops fable about the ants and the grasshopper, the ants get ready for winter while the grasshopper played and had fun? then when winter came and the shit hit the fan, that grasshopper was hurting while all the ants were chilling with their stockpiles. the occupy group are the grasshoppers of todays tough economic conditions, upset that they failed to take up the opportunities presented to them in america while the rest of us are the ants, who the occupiers want to tear down mainly due to jealousy and that they cant stand that some people are successful while others are complete failures.

[yeahwho]

do you not recall the Aesops fable about the ants and the grasshopper, the ants get ready for winter while the grasshopper played and had fun? then when winter came and the shit hit the fan, that grasshopper was hurting while all the ants were chilling with their stockpiles. the occupy group are the grasshoppers of todays tough economic conditions, upset that they failed to take up the opportunities presented to them in america while the rest of us are the ants, who the occupiers want to tear down mainly due to jealousy and that they cant stand that some people are successful while others are complete failures.

This isn't a fable. This is real. And if you think we're on the right path I am pretty sure you're living in an alternate galaxy.

I'm not in the mood to try and be complicit with our Country being financed and bidded out by the wealthiest 400 people. 308,745,538 citizens deserve an equal voice. That is the message, it isn't about fucking handouts.

I am not going to try and convince you of anything, here is a pretty quick take on those of us who support an open discussion on banks, corporate structure and wall street feel. It's a reasonable request to address what has happened to our economy.

In Less than a Minute Alan Grayson Explains Occupy Wall Street to the 1% (http://www.politicususa.com/en/alan-grayson-occupy-wall-street)

[Mil Mascaras]

do you not recall the Aesops fable about the ants and the grasshopper, the ants get ready for winter while the grasshopper played and had fun? then when winter came and the shit hit the fan, that grasshopper was hurting while all the ants were chilling with their stockpiles. the occupy group are the grasshoppers of todays tough economic conditions, upset that they failed to take up the opportunities presented to them in america while the rest of us are the ants, who the occupiers want to tear down mainly due to jealousy and that they cant stand that some people are successful while others are complete failures.

Original Version:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter so he dies out in the cold.


New Liberal Version:

It starts out the same, but when winter comes, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving. CBS, NBC, and ABC show up and provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to film of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can it be that, in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so? Then a representative of the NAAGB (The National Association for the Advancement of Green Bugs) shows up on Nightline and charges the ant with "Green Bias" and makes the case that the grasshopper is the victim of 30 million years of greenism.

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody cries when he sings it's Not Easy Being Green.

Bill and Hillary Clinton make a special guest appearance on the CBS Evening News and tell a concerned Dan Rather that they will do everything they can for the grasshopper who has been denied the prosperity he deserves by those who benefited unfairly during the Reagan Summers, or as Bill refers to it, the 'Temperatures of the 80's. Richard Gephardt exclaims in an interview with Peter Jennings that the ant has gotten rich off the "back of the grasshopper," and calls for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his "fair share."

Finally, the EEOC drafts the "Economic Equality and Anti-Greenism Act," retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.

Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill appointed from a list of single-parent welfare moms who can only hear cases on Thursday afternoon between 1:30 and 3:00 PM when there are no talk shows scheduled.

The ant loses the case.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he's in - which just happens to be the ant's old house - crumbles around him since he does not know how to maintain it. The ant has disappeared in the snow. And on the TV, which the grasshopper bought by selling most of the ant's food, they are showing Bill Clinton standing before a wildly applauding group of Democrats announcing a new era of "Fairness" has dawned in America.

[valvano]

This isn't a fable. This is real. And if you think we're on the right path I am pretty sure you're living in an alternate galaxy.

I'm not in the mood to try and be complicit with our Country being financed and bidded out by the wealthiest 400 people. 308,745,538 citizens deserve an equal voice. That is the message, it isn't about fucking handouts.

I am not going to try and convince you of anything, here is a pretty quick take on those of us who support an open discussion on banks, corporate structure and wall street feel. It's a reasonable request to address what has happened to our economy.

In Less than a Minute Alan Grayson Explains Occupy Wall Street to the 1% (http://www.politicususa.com/en/alan-grayson-occupy-wall-street)

instead of demonstrating against wall street, shouldnt you be demonstrating against the current occupant of the white house? it appears michelle obama is doing some fundraising with a billionaire former Enron trader:

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/1011/houston_fundraiser_drama_6cccc297-f2cd-4cc6-a869-28e72d10b851.html

While at the same time BO is beginning to slip and slide around his campaign pledge regarding his relationship between the White House and lobbyist:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/28/with-lobbyist-donors-obama-lets-himself-off-on-technicality/


So this 1% that you say dominates the power, you want equal voice with them? You do have an equal voice. One person, one vote in the election booth. But there's also other avenues to make an influence on government. You know, contributions, lobbying, special interest groups, etc. Yes, money rules that game on that end of spectrum but they didnt write the rules, govt did. It appears that Occupy needs to redirect its efforts from whining about those who take advantage of the rules to get their point across and direct their attention to those who write the rules.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Look people, this "occupy wall street" is not an attack you meager conservatives. You will never be rich, you have no power, and you never will. You just think you will, which is kind of sad. You make the false assumption that the ultra-rich actually worked hard to gain their money, and that they did it fair and square, which is just naïve.

The real story of the ant and the grasshopper is that the ant works super hard and he ends up in the same spot as the stupid grasshopper because the WASP came along, sold him false promises, and bled him dry. The ant was too doped up on dreams to realize that he's just an ant, that he could never really be a WASP, and that the WASP made all the rules to benefit the WASPs. The ant didn't want to hate the WASP, because he wanted to be a WASP, therefore, he took out all of his anger on the grasshopper, who was really no danger to him at all.

[Turchinator]

without feeding into all the stereotypes and biases, let's look at the plight of the street artist or struggling musician protesting as part of the OWS movement- they want their voices to be heard, but do they think they can sustain a living on their art alone? what is it about Corporate America that has strangled their ability to be self sustained individuals?

I always believed you have to work hard and also have something to fall back on.

you don't have to be a conservative to see this movement is barking up the wrong tree entirely.

[yeahwho]

without feeding into all the stereotypes and biases, let's look at the plight of the street artist or struggling musician protesting as part of the OWS movement- they want their voices to be heard, but do they think they can sustain a living on their art alone? what is it about Corporate America that has strangled their ability to be self sustained individuals?

I always believed you have to work hard and also have something to fall back on.

you don't have to be a conservative to see this movement is barking up the wrong tree entirely.

They are baking at the exact tree they should be.

Street artists and struggling musicians? How far are you from the reality of the occupy wall street?

Occupy Wall Street will be around for awhile because good hard working people have and will continue to lose their jobs while the United States Congress blatantly obeys the corporate lobbyists. It isn't just a conservative issue, this is about setting the sights on those who do feel as if they deserve more because of their money, not because of their hard work.

it's A very tough economy with a very bleak future, if I was young and straddled with huge debt and no future I too would be very active. So I expect we'll have to get used to hearing more than just democrats, republicans and tea partiers.

That is the USA that I love. Open and democratic.

[valvano]

They are baking at the exact tree they should be.

Street artists and struggling musicians? How far are you from the reality of the occupy wall street?

Occupy Wall Street will be around for awhile because good hard working people have and will continue to lose their jobs while the United States Congress blatantly obeys the corporate lobbyists. It isn't just a conservative issue, this is about setting the sights on those who do feel as if they deserve more because of their money, not because of their hard work.

it's A very tough economy with a very bleak future, if I was young and straddled with huge debt and no future I too would be very active. So I expect we'll have to get used to hearing more than just democrats, republicans and tea partiers.

That is the USA that I love. Open and democratic.


They are barking at the right tree, Wall Street, because Obama is in bed with GE, who pays no incomes taxes on billions in profits, and Michelle Obama, who is in bed with a billionaire ex Enron guy? That makes sense:rolleyes:

[kaiser soze]

please provide some pics of pro-Obama signs

I don't think these protestors are happy with the administration - I think they are upset with the whole of government and corporations screwing Americans over.

[kaiser soze]

putting their minds to it -

Goldman sued for $1.07 bln over Timberwolf CDO

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/28/goldmansachs-lawsuit-idUSN1E79R0RS20111028

Oct 28 (Reuters) - Goldman Sachs Group Inc has been hit with a new $1.07 billion lawsuit for having allegedly sold risky debt that it expected would tumble in value to an Australian hedge fund, causing that fund to become insolvent.

The lawsuit by the Basis Yield Alpha Fund alleges fraud, breach of contract and negligence, and seeks to recoup $67 million of losses plus $1 billion of punitive damages.

it's just business as usual :rolleyes:

[valvano]

please provide some pics of pro-Obama signs

I don't think these protestors are happy with the administration - I think they are upset with the whole of government and corporations screwing Americans over.

no private entity in US history has screwed over the citizens of the US as remotely as much as has the US government. so tell me again why Occupy is not protesting the US govt in Washington DC instead of squatting on city parks and public land through out the country, adding additional expense to already strapped municipal budgets and without paying the fees and fines that normal groups do who use these spaces for organized protests and demonstrations? :confused:

[kaiser soze]

why don't you go there and ask them yourself

I'm just as baffled why there isn't a massive protest in D.C.

you still didn't provide any proof of pro-Obama signs though...

[Turchinator]

injured Veteran Scott Olsen is a puppet for the OWS movement.
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=31617

he is a drug using ex marine who is the proprietor of www.ihatethemarinecorps.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14375183@N07/page5/

what a hero!

[valvano]

injured Veteran Scott Olsen is a puppet for the OWS movement.
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=31617

he is a drug using ex marine who is the proprietor of www.ihatethemarinecorps.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14375183@N07/page5/

what a hero!

shhh don't tell ed schulz

http://ed.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/27/8512951-helping-scott-olsen

[yeahwho]

injured Veteran Scott Olsen is a puppet for the OWS movement.
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=31617

he is a drug using ex marine who is the proprietor of www.ihatethemarinecorps.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14375183@N07/page5/

what a hero!

shhh don't tell ed schulz

http://ed.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/27/8512951-helping-scott-olsen



Excellent work guys! Occupiers leave Wall Street, go home! You've made fools out of yourselves. The banks never did anything as crazy as squat in the streets with total strangers.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

no private entity in US history has screwed over the citizens of the US as remotely as much as has the US government.

The idea being that the corporations are controlling the government to their advantage. Why protest the puppet when you can protest the puppeteer?

[kaiser soze]

injured Veteran Scott Olsen is a puppet for the OWS movement.
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=31617

he is a drug using ex marine who is the proprietor of www.ihatethemarinecorps.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14375183@N07/page5/

what a hero!

oh my marijuana - oh no!

Many vets today have been leaving the military with very poor impressions on the system. Maybe it's because of these worthless wars for profit?

He is still a hero - the cop who shot him in the face and then the one who tossed a flash bang into the crowd trying to help him are the zeros.

[valvano]

oh my marijuana - oh no!

Many vets today have been leaving the military with very poor impressions on the system. Maybe it's because of these worthless wars for profit?

He is still a hero - the cop who shot him in the face and then the one who tossed a flash bang into the crowd trying to help him are the zeros.

its "da jews" fault he was injured

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=31706

this is the gift that keeps on giving.....ha ha ha ha ha :D

[Turchinator]

the cop who shot him in the face and then the one who tossed a flash bang into the crowd trying to help him are the zeros.

make no mistake I agree 100% with the sentiment that the police brutality needs to be investigated.

but before OWS we had police brutality- will this movement bring change in our country in that category or will it bring more violence?

I am predicting more violence, from both sides. see Haymarket Riot 1886.

Olsen on his own admission was being investigated by the Marine Corps for alleged cocaine use.


edit: the hero comment was a bit hasty and insensitive.

[Planetary]

The way some of you are talking about this make it sound as if it's only happening on wall st. It's a protest against corporate greed, not the mis-treatment of americans.

[yeahwho]

The way some of you are talking about this make it sound as if it's only happening on wall st. It's a protest against corporate greed, not the mis-treatment of americans.

Thank you.

An open discussion on those who use power and wealth in a manner that buys them political advantage over the rest of the population.

It reminds me of a line Steve Martin's character had in the movie All of Me,

"Just because my grandfather didn't rape the environment and exploit the workers doesn't make me a peasant. And it's not that he didn't want to rape the environment and exploit the workers, I'm sure he did. It's just that as a barber, he didn't have that much opportunity"

[kaiser soze]

ahhh, just another day at the office

Regulators Investigating MF Global

Federal regulators have discovered that hundreds of millions of dollars in customer money have gone missing from MF Global in recent days, prompting an investigation into the company’s operations as it filed for bankruptcy on Monday, according to several people briefed on the matter.

The revelation of the missing money scuttled an 11th hour deal for MF Global to sell a major part of itself to a rival brokerage firm. MF Global, the powerhouse commodities brokerage run by Jon S. Corzine, had staked its survival on completing the deal.

but you know - people protesting this kind of bullshit are in the wrong

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/regulators-investigating-mf-global/

[valvano]

ahhh, just another day at the office

Regulators Investigating MF Global



but you know - people protesting this kind of bullshit are in the wrong

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/regulators-investigating-mf-global/

would that be Corzine, the former NJ guv?

[kaiser soze]

why yes it would be - and yes we know he was a Democrat

doesn't change the fact that this is business as usual

[valvano]

The way some of you are talking about this make it sound as if it's only happening on wall st. It's a protest against corporate greed, not the mis-treatment of americans.

can you define corporate greed? i mean are you wanting a some type of regulations put into place to limit how much profit a corporation can earn? and after that, then what? how much individuals can make? and then, how do you decide how much to reward for different levels of hard work and investment? and is corporate greed based on pure amount of profits, or profit margins, or ROI?

and when are protesting, are you protesting the actual corporations or the shareholders who are the real owners of the corporation.
thanks!

[Burnout18]

to me, they are barking up the wrong tree. camping out on Wall Street or LA City Hall to rally against anything and everything possible just wont do it.



How many wall street protesters does it take to change a lightbulb? None, they can't change anything...... Get it?

Have any of you been down there? Its kind of a freak show. Here's a video starring some nice young woman, this made me laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WBLnj2iTqw

[Burnout18]

Look people, this "occupy wall street" is not an attack you meager conservatives. You will never be rich, you have no power, and you never will. You just think you will, which is kind of sad. You make the false assumption that the ultra-rich actually worked hard to gain their money, and that they did it fair and square, which is just naïve.


No but its more likely that I go from lower middle class to upper middle class.... cut out the "first in my family to get a degree" part of my story cause that means shit. I have the opportunity to grow a small business to a medium size business. To live well off, but not have my kids ride around in bentley's and ferraris. Who the fuck thinks they are going from dirtpoor to billionaire status... unless if your a pro athlete or a rapper. But for your sake, we'll ignore those people for you right now.

[valvano]

why yes it would be - and yes we know he was a Democrat

doesn't change the fact that this is business as usual

unfortunately, this too is getting to be business as usual for the Obama administration, another failed green energy firm propped up by the US taxpayers

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/190641-second-energy-dept-backed-company-goes-bankrupt

[kaiser soze]

and this is one of the reasons OWS exist

so where are you sitting on the fence?

[valvano]

and this is one of the reasons OWS exist

so where are you sitting on the fence?

then why isnt it named Occupy White House? 99.9% fo the problems OWS are protesting comes straight from govt policy.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Look people, this "occupy wall street" is not an attack you meager conservatives. You will never be rich, you have no power, and you never will. You just think you will, which is kind of sad. You make the false assumption that the ultra-rich actually worked hard to gain their money, and that they did it fair and square, which is just naïve.

The real story of the ant and the grasshopper is that the ant works super hard and he ends up in the same spot as the stupid grasshopper because the WASP came along, sold him false promises, and bled him dry. The ant was too doped up on dreams to realize that he's just an ant, that he could never really be a WASP, and that the WASP made all the rules to benefit the WASPs. The ant didn't want to hate the WASP, because he wanted to be a WASP, therefore, he took out all of his anger on the grasshopper, who was really no danger to him at all.

No but its more likely that I go from lower middle class to upper middle class.... cut out the "first in my family to get a degree" part of my story cause that means shit. I have the opportunity to grow a small business to a medium size business. To live well off, but not have my kids ride around in bentley's and ferraris. Who the fuck thinks they are going from dirtpoor to billionaire status... unless if your a pro athlete or a rapper. But for your sake, we'll ignore those people for you right now.

Is it more likely? That's the thing. That's what you'd like to happen, but the truth is that the gap between rich and poor is widening, not narrowing. The number of true "middle class" workers is getting smaller and smaller, while the ultra rich are getting richer and richer. It's no coincidence that the ultra-rich control the lobbies, and control the politicians to a large extent. Yet lower middle class conservatives somehow see "occupy wall street" movement as an attack on them.

You've got working poor conservatives and working poor liberals attacking each other while the ultra rich continue to rake in cash because they have learned how to manupulate the system to their advantage.

[valvano]

Is it more likely? That's the thing. That's what you'd like to happen, but the truth is that the gap between rich and poor is widening, not narrowing. The number of true "middle class" workers is getting smaller and smaller, while the ultra rich are getting richer and richer. It's no coincidence that the ultra-rich control the lobbies, and control the politicians to a large extent. Yet lower middle class conservatives somehow see "occupy wall street" movement as an attack on them.

You've got working poor conservatives and working poor liberals attacking each other while the ultra rich continue to rake in cash because they have learned how to manupulate the system to their advantage.

what's the problem with people growing their wealth? should MLB have told the Yankees back in the 1960s that they didnt need to win any more titles?

Are you mandating a cap at which an individual can earn money or grown the money they have already earned? What's preventing you from reaching your fullest potential?

I thought America was the land of open opportunity, not capped opportunity.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

what's the problem with people growing their wealth? should MLB have told the Yankees back in the 1960s that they didnt need to win any more titles?

Are you mandating a cap at which an individual can earn money or grown the money they have already earned? What's preventing you from reaching your fullest potential?

I thought America was the land of open opportunity, not capped opportunity.

Were in my post did you read that I was "mandating" a cap on earning?

I think I see where you're going with this putting words in other people's mouths thing though. Do you want to give rich people an unfair advantage? Should some major league players be allowed to take steroids so that they can win all the titles, while depriving other players of steroids? That's unamerican! You're advocating that we give drugs to little baseball playing kids so that you can rape them! You rapist!

[valvano]

Were in my post did you read that I was "mandating" a cap on earning?

I think I see where you're going with this putting words in other people's mouths thing though. Do you want to give rich people an unfair advantage? Should some major league players be allowed to take steroids so that they can win all the titles, while depriving other players of steroids? That's unamerican! You're advocating that we give drugs to little baseball playing kids so that you can rape them! You rapist!

you seem to be critical of the ultra rich getting richer? that was the point of you ranting and whining above?

[Sir SkratchaLot]

you seem to be critical of the ultra rich getting richer? that was the point of you ranting and whining above?

Do you know what words mean?

[valvano]

Do you know what words mean?


do you know how things work in the real world, not in some classroom taught buy an ex hippy econ professor?

[yeahwho]

what's the problem with people growing their wealth? should MLB have told the Yankees back in the 1960s that they didnt need to win any more titles?

Are you mandating a cap at which an individual can earn money or grown the money they have already earned? What's preventing you from reaching your fullest potential?

I thought America was the land of open opportunity, not capped opportunity.

Is it? Really is that what you were thinking? Millions of families are not being given that opportunity. Do you really expect the corporate structure to invest in the American dream? They've outsourced packaging, production, resources and materials. As if that isn't enough the banks and insurance companies lied to Americans about the ratings and values of their homes and mortgages.

You would have to be oblivious to not notice the sea change in this Country and the root causes. Even more oblivious to not notice the real causes of why your own families opportunity is capped.

That is why every major city has Occupy Wall Street currently.

[valvano]

Is it? Really is that what you were thinking? Millions of families are not being given that opportunity. Do you really expect the corporate structure to invest in the American dream? They've outsourced packaging, production, resources and materials. As if that isn't enough the banks and insurance companies lied to Americans about the ratings and values of their homes and mortgages.

You would have to be oblivious to not notice the sea change in this Country and the root causes. Even more oblivious to not notice the real causes of why your own families opportunity is capped.

That is why every major city has Occupy Wall Street currently.

so corporate america wants to keep you poor so you can't afford to buy their products?

car salesman lie every day, do we need to have an Occupy Detroit?

please tell me how corporate america has held you back.

as far as investing in the american dream. with the numerous layers of govt beaucracy, environmental laws, outdated labor laws (meaning they have not been updated to reflect the modern economy) high taxes, capital gains taxes, pending obamacare, the growing american deficit, the dumbing down of american kids by union controlled govt run education..... is it any wonder many US companies are outsourcing ? we are in a global economy today. its not the 1950s anymore. things have changed. get with the program or get left behind.

but I like the OWS mindset better. lets tear the rich down to the level of the poor instead of maybe encouraging the poor to advance on their own. but no, its in the govts and liberals best interest to keep the poor down, its one of their biggest voting blocks.

funny thing. the poor and minorities vote democrat year after year after year...hasnt gotten them very far based on OWS...

BTW, OWS needs to nominate this guy into a leadership position. hey's got the OWS playbook down pretty good. panhandle and when you get nothing, throw a raging fit against your corporate enemy

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/11/01/suspect-in-custody-after-smashing-up-sacramento-starbucks-store/

[Sir SkratchaLot]

do you know how things work in the real world, not in some classroom taught buy an ex hippy econ professor?

Yes, in the real world I see people like you lose their homes and businesses every day by no fault of their own. When things were going well for them, it would not be uncommon for many of these people to to be very oppinionated about the lazy unemployed, union workers, etc. Then, a little later, when everything comes crumbling down, that attitude changes quickly and it's all very sad, embarassing, and eye opening for them.

I'm sure you'd love to find some way to pin it all on Obama though. I can't really blame you. The world is a complex and terrifying place and sometimes there's comfort in having one symbol of everything that scares you to blame everything on. Keep on living that dream though!

[valvano]

Yes, in the real world I see people like you lose their homes and businesses every day by no fault of their own. When things were going well for them, it would not be uncommon for many of these people to to be very oppinionated about the lazy unemployed, union workers, etc. Then, a little later, when everything comes crumbling down, that attitude changes quickly and it's all very sad, embarassing, and eye opening for them.

I'm sure you'd love to find some way to pin it all on Obama though. I can't really blame you. The world is a complex and terrifying place and sometimes there's comfort in having one symbol of everything that scares you to blame everything on. Keep on living that dream though!

life is tough. you want a society with all winners and no losers. aint gonna happen.

[yeahwho]

so corporate america wants to keep you poor so you can't afford to buy their products?

car salesman lie every day, do we need to have an Occupy Detroit?

please tell me how corporate america has held you back.

as far as investing in the american dream. with the numerous layers of govt beaucracy, environmental laws, outdated labor laws (meaning they have not been updated to reflect the modern economy) high taxes, capital gains taxes, pending obamacare, the growing american deficit, the dumbing down of american kids by union controlled govt run education..... is it any wonder many US companies are outsourcing ? we are in a global economy today. its not the 1950s anymore. things have changed. get with the program or get left behind.

but I like the OWS mindset better. lets tear the rich down to the level of the poor instead of maybe encouraging the poor to advance on their own. but no, its in the govts and liberals best interest to keep the poor down, its one of their biggest voting blocks.

funny thing. the poor and minorities vote democrat year after year after year...hasnt gotten them very far based on OWS...

BTW, OWS needs to nominate this guy into a leadership position. hey's got the OWS playbook down pretty good. panhandle and when you get nothing, throw a raging fit against your corporate enemy

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/11/01/suspect-in-custody-after-smashing-up-sacramento-starbucks-store/

What a muddled response. Occupy Wall Street has really struck a chord with you.

You may as well keep thinking Corporate America (lol) is your buddy and stick up for them as best you can. With sharpies like you Occupy Wall Street will prosper greatly.

I have never had much of a problem with used car salesmen, in fact I'm pretty sure my car(s) are nicer than yours. One of them is actually from Detroit and 50 years old.

Government and liberals? This current administration is to the right of Reagan? WTF. We are living in a state of reduced taxes leftover from Bush. Government (Bush Years) did not regulate, prosecute or even flinch when a gun was put to their heads asking for a bailout.To this day our representatives still abet those who lied about the value and rating of the most important purchase each citizen of this country makes, their homes.

I could type it again, but you just don't get it... Occupy Wall Street is not a democrat, it is not a republican, it is a cross section you seem to have a hard time catergorizing. Which is excellent! Because while you try and define they make slow but steady progress keeping the dialouge alive about the ever growing 2 class society here in America.

Cheers!

[Sir SkratchaLot]

life is tough. you want a society with all winners and no losers. aint gonna happen.

It's no wonder you're so scared and confused. You have a hard time dealing with the grey areas. Once you've had a chance to experience the real world, you may realize that everything is not black and white. Every news item does not need to be catorgoized into republican vs. democrat. People who you fundamentally dissagree with can make valid points. You don't have to try to pigeonhole everything into good and evil. Nobody is out to get you. People with money just have a built in incentive to do everything in their power to maintain their wealth. That makes perfect sense. To some though, that means they will bend the rules, break the rules, or pay people to make new rules that benefit them. Stacking the deck is not the same thing as the American Dream. It's when people feel that they've been unfairly beaten that the problem arises. Regardless of what you'd like to think to justify your opinion, a lot of these people are not lazy grasshoppers.

[Dorothy Wood]

This is exactly what this whole Occupy movement is about, blaming others for your own mistakes.

No, I'm saying that predatory lending is wrong. I didn't have the means to pay back $5000, and they knew it, yet gave me the line of credit anyway. because they want to take people for a ride, to rack up interest and fees. I take responsibility for my overspending in my youth and all my debts are current now. I just think it was wrong that the opportunity was there in the first place, but I take responsibility for taking the bait. People haven't always used credit in such volume, you know? It's a game, loans and credit, constantly prodding people to spend more and take on more debt. It's a game that ruins people's lives.

Every paragraph of Dorothy's "stream of conciousness" post began with "I"...It speaks volumes.

Me, Me, Me!

fuck off, if you'd actually read what I said, I wasn't blaming anyone. Besides, you're the goddamn mascot for selfishness and excess consumption. But you know, as long as you're living well, who cares about anything else?

[RobMoney$]

THANKS!

[yeahwho]

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog visits Occupy Wall Street (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkq5l8NT00Q)

[Burnout18]

So after accomplishing nothing but polluting a park, these wanna-be revolutionaries decided they were going to try and physically shut down wall street. What a disgrace, the police cant arrest enough of you. You have no right to block roads, no right to prevent ppl from going to work. It's not just the brokers and bankers, but the building maintenance workers, middle class support staff, people living pay check to paycheck had trouble getting to work. Why? Why is OWS doing this? No logical reason.

Again, nothing accomplished. Actually. Wait. People who work downtown had to walk around downtown showing their ID cards all day to police and security guards. So there you go, occupy wall street is helping NYC to become a police state. Thanks for nothing!

The police have shown incredible restraint, I'm now hoping it rains mace.

[travesty]

And lots of soap.

[kaiser soze]

The police have shown incredible restraint, I'm now hoping it rains mace.

incredible restraint - hahaha!

more like the protestors have shown incredible restraint against police brutality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdDLhPwpp4

[kaiser soze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1HdKVjqJeo&feature=player_embedded#!

SUCH incredible restraint

:rolleyes:

[Burnout18]

Shoulda Moved! Simple enough! what right do any these protesters have to prevent people from getting to class or getting to work?

It's borderline pathetic that certain protesters are trying to hard to make themselves martyrs. Seriously.

How about the kid who was hitting cops with batteries and tried to knock an officers hat off his head, or the woman who was spraying cops with a vinegar based liquid?

Real peaceful this movement is :rolleyes:

[Mil Mascaras]

The police have shown incredible restraint, I'm now hoping it rains mace.Well said

[yeahwho]

Be honest with yourself, people. If you saw young people protesting against unfair economic conditions in another country, and then saw them treated the way they have been here -- you'd call it for what it is -- police brutality. But you can't bring yourself to do it here.

[Turchinator]

protests spawn police brutality, that seems like a whole other issue next to corporate and economic climates in America.

block the traffic all you want, you will be asked to move and in some cases, police will break procedures to remove you.

NYPD, Oakland, UC Davis police, they will all review their tactics, but how will this make any difference for the OWS movement?

do you think the chancellor will go back and change the tuition hike?

LAPD had an example last week where they peacefully arrested the peaceful protestors after clearing their camp downtown.

well, now what?

[yeahwho]

To quote the shawshank redemption, how can you be so obtuse?

The manner in which the police all across the US are responding to the Occupy protests has become increasingly similar to their peers in the Middle East. Am I the only one asking this question?

Peacefully arrested protesters for what?

If I were a member of the UofC Davis police department I would want the officers who sprayed mace on protesters removed from the force and prosecuted, since he presents a danger to the public, his colleagues, and himself.

[Turchinator]

Peacefully arrested protesters for what?



LOL for what? for setting up tents in the middle of a downtown street, for locking arms in the middle of a street creating a traffic blockade, and for refusing to vacate private property as instructed.

thousands upon thousands of protestors chose to stay on the sidewalk and avoid arrests.

the folks who get arrested at these protests make that choice. the folks who were pepper sprayed knew they would be pepper sprayed.

they got what they wanted.

and please stop comparing this to the Arab Spring. Syrian and Egyptian police were picking fools out of the crowd with headshots.

or am i being obtuse?

[yeahwho]

There is very little truth behind the statement, it's a false assumption

the folks who were pepper sprayed knew they would be pepper sprayed.

they got what they wanted.


you are being obtuse

[yeahwho]

Megyn Kelly of FOX News! (http://gawker.com/5861688/its-a-food-product-essentially-fox-news-starts-spinning-pepper-spray-cops)

‘It’s a Food Product, Essentially’: Fox News Starts Spinning Pepper Spray Cops

[Turchinator]

you are being obtuse


how so? they were warned they would be pepper sprayed. that's no assumption.

I say they got what they wanted-international recognition for their cause.

[yeahwho]

I guess we're talking about something altogether different.

There are only a few reactions to pepper spraying citizens or students. To not say anything would be obtuse.

You've sided with the police (who are following orders) and I'm calling bullshit on pepper spraying citizens and students.... restraint would be much more effective.

I'm going to quote Kennedy 'cause today marks 48 years since his assassination,

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962

*i know i'm quotin' too many sources...

[Burnout18]

Be honest with yourself, people. If you saw young people protesting against unfair economic conditions in another country, and then saw them treated the way they have been here -- you'd call it for what it is -- police brutality. But you can't bring yourself to do it here.

No its not. Its nots even close. Protesters get shot and killed in the middle east. Pepper spray is a non lethal weapon.... Not a food substance, but a non lethal weapon. how's that the same? 100 times out of 100 I'd rather be pepper sprayed than shot.

My earlier comments were about the day of action, or whatever 11/17 was called. The protesters are slowly beginning to realize they aren't accomplishing shit. Sorry but "raising awareness" and the widening income gap isn't an accomplishment, its a sad sign of the times that the general public was unaware of those statistics before this.

As they realize they aren't accomplishing anything they are going to leave their park and try to do damage. Preventing people from getting to work, is an ass backwards way to protest the economy and lack of job creation.

It was intriguing at first, and like you yeahwho, my heart was with them. But it became very clear very quickly that this was a disorganized group protesting for the sake of protesting. There is no end victory for them for a group with no goals. Dude even the tea party had goals, objectives and managed to get congressmen and even a senator elected. I cant see any real change coming out of ows. Go home kids, its over.

[Burnout18]

how so? they were warned they would be pepper sprayed. that's no assumption.

I say they got what they wanted-international recognition for their cause.

Please no one take this out of context, I am not comparing the Joe pa and ows, but when those kids at Penn state were rioting for paterno, one kid got maced ad everyone else said "fuck this" and ran home.

At one point do they realize arrests on their record and mace to the face isn't worth occupying wall street?

[Sir SkratchaLot]

LOL for what? for setting up tents in the middle of a downtown street, for locking arms in the middle of a street creating a traffic blockade, and for refusing to vacate private property as instructed.

thousands upon thousands of protestors chose to stay on the sidewalk and avoid arrests.

the folks who get arrested at these protests make that choice. the folks who were pepper sprayed knew they would be pepper sprayed.

they got what they wanted.

and please stop comparing this to the Arab Spring. Syrian and Egyptian police were picking fools out of the crowd with headshots.

or am i being obtuse?

Werd, just like all those upstart black people who were protesting in the 60s. They were practically asking to be waterhosed and have dogs sicked on them, am I right? Yeah, you're that guy, it's just 50 years later.

[yeahwho]

As they realize they aren't accomplishing anything they are going to leave their park and try to do damage. Preventing people from getting to work, is an ass backwards way to protest the economy and lack of job creation.

It was intriguing at first, and like you yeahwho, my heart was with them. But it became very clear very quickly that this was a disorganized group protesting for the sake of protesting. There is no end victory for them for a group with no goals. Dude even the tea party had goals, objectives and managed to get congressmen and even a senator elected. I cant see any real change coming out of ows. Go home kids, its over.

I'm bemused, and disappointed, by the continual assumptions that legitimate discontent must boil its concerns into a 10-point program to satisfy the media and corporate/technocratic elite, who would immediately attack the points one by one. Everyone knows what the discontent is about, there's no true lack of clarity about that. The confusion is felt only by those in power who haven't figured out how to either destroy or exploit the OWS movement. But WHAT it is about is obvious to everyone.

The idea is working, the use of electronic media and the feeling of a connection with other citizens is real. Occupy Wall Street is not electing anybody, they are getting the message out to those who continually fail their job of representative democracy. The gig is up. We're fucking on it. We are in the streets.

Apparently "Change We Can Believe In" hasn't quite been achieved so millions of people are letting us know, I don't have any superiority trip over Occupy Wall Street, they are us, we are them.

[Turchinator]

Werd, just like all those upstart black people who were protesting in the 60s. They were practically asking to be waterhosed and have dogs sicked on them, am I right? Yeah, you're that guy, it's just 50 years later.

comparing to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60's now?

tell me about the discrimination OWS protestors face every day when they get on a bus or go to a water fountain.

sensationalism at its finest.

OWS brought awareness that we need to review our police tactics. I don't stand up for the police, I don't apologize for the police.

but if you are illegally blocking traffic and a cop tells you that you better move or you will get pepper sprayed, you might want to clear the street you are blocking.

it's as if you've never seen a protest on a college campus before.

did UC change their tuition hikes yet?

[Sir SkratchaLot]

comparing to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60's now?

tell me about the discrimination OWS protestors face every day when they get on a bus or go to a water fountain.

sensationalism at its finest.

OWS brought awareness that we need to review our police tactics. I don't stand up for the police, I don't apologize for the police.

but if you are illegally blocking traffic and a cop tells you that you better move or you will get pepper sprayed, you might want to clear the street you are blocking.

it's as if you've never seen a protest on a college campus before.

did UC change their tuition hikes yet?

The point being that, by your statements, you've revealed that you feel it's justifed for the police to respond to non-violent protest with violence, simply because you disagree with the protesters.

[Mil Mascaras]

They're blocking traffic and interfering with people's ability to live their lives. OWS is the problem. Move or be moved. Passive aggression is still aggression.

[Helvete]

The manner in which the police all across the US are responding to the Occupy protests has become increasingly similar to their peers in the Middle East. Am I the only one asking this question?

Yes, it's exactly the same...

You have no idea.

[yeahwho]

They're blocking traffic and interfering with people's ability to live their lives. OWS is the problem. Move or be moved. Passive aggression is still aggression.

I live in a major U.S. City which has a large contingent of Occupy Wall Streeters, I actually went out of my way to drive by and honk my horn on the way to work (which eventually honking a car horn in support of those who protest the status quo became illegal) and I was still early for work, everyday.

Yes, it's exactly the same...

You have no idea.

Similar.... Not exactly the same, similar as in these mass arrests we are witnessing are at record levels in our country. By a group who has a message to the ruling elite.

I am not too sure if you think it's a good thing to block out the media and perform mass arrests of citizens or if it's not cool. My bad just not getting it if it's sarcasm.

[Burnout18]

The confusion is felt only by those in power who haven't figured out how to either destroy or exploit the OWS movement. But WHAT it is about is obvious to everyone.


Apparently "Change We Can Believe In" hasn't quite been achieved so millions of people are letting us know

What it is and what OWS can actually do about what they want are two different things. They aren't accomplishing anything. They really arent. As a result The movement is getting increasingly more violent. They are fustrated.

I think on some level you just touched on what the underlying issue is. There is massive disappointment in president obama. Even from people who voted for him, and will vote for him again. So many people thought he was coming to be this great problem solver, who was going to inspire unity domestically and abroad.... And he hasnt done that. Not even close. Hes just another uninspiring president.

[Mil Mascaras]

These "protesters" are essentially terrorists and should be treated as such.

[Mil Mascaras]

.....................

[Turchinator]

nobody's even protesting the economy anymore.

people just know that they are MAD and they are using the so called electronic media to take to the streets...

...to block traffic, to stop access to parks, subways, and retail stores.

i know, i know...

the media:rolleyes:

[Turchinator]

meanwhile, in Cairo


Cairo (CNN) -- Egypt's general prosecutor on Friday ordered a police officer to submit to questioning regarding his suspected role in shooting protesters in the eyes during recent clashes in Cairo's Tahrir Square.
"The Ministry of Interior is preoccupied by the latest events, but he will come in for questioning soon," Adel Saeed, a spokesman for Egypt's general prosecutor, said about the suspect, 1st Lt. Mahmoud Sobhi El Shinawi.


The evidence offered against El Shinawi includes videos recorded by protesters and posted on Facebook, Saeed said. At least five demonstrators have been shot in the eye, according to authorities.
They are among hundreds of casualties over the past week. Some 41 people have died -- 33 of them in Cairo -- while an additional 3,250 had been wounded as of Friday, Health Ministry spokesman Hisham Shiha has said.


Protesters have called El Shinawi, specifically, "The Eye Hunter" and have sprayed "wanted" stencils featuring his face, name and rank on the walls around Tahrir Square.




i got it from corporate controlled CNN for what it's worth

[Sir SkratchaLot]

These "protesters" are essentially terrorists and should be treated as such.

Just like mace is essentially a food product?

[Turchinator]

see, we're still talking about the pepper spray incident like it was the "Tianemen Square" moment of the OWS movement, as Michael Moore put it.

we are stuck with the same talking points on either side and the movement is going NOWHERE.

it's not the first time a college student was pepper sprayed at a protest, and it won't be the last. I understand that the nation is in horror over such an incident, but it shouldn't be the focus of the OWS movement. lets start a topic on police brutality.

in fact it has already become one of the most popular memes in Internet lore.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-pepper-spraying-cop-meme
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyLulz

UC Davis Chancellor hasn't stepped down. Lt John Pike on paid administrative leave. he gets $110,000 per year.

those students could drop out of UC in masses if they wanted to make a point.

[yeahwho]

meanwhile, in Cairo

Cairo (CNN) -- Egypt's general prosecutor on Friday ordered a police officer to submit to questioning regarding his suspected role in shooting protesters in the eyes during recent clashes in Cairo's Tahrir Square.
"The Ministry of Interior is preoccupied by the latest events, but he will come in for questioning soon," Adel Saeed, a spokesman for Egypt's general prosecutor, said about the suspect, 1st Lt. Mahmoud Sobhi El Shinawi.


The evidence offered against El Shinawi includes videos recorded by protesters and posted on Facebook, Saeed said. At least five demonstrators have been shot in the eye, according to authorities.
They are among hundreds of casualties over the past week. Some 41 people have died -- 33 of them in Cairo -- while an additional 3,250 had been wounded as of Friday, Health Ministry spokesman Hisham Shiha has said.


Protesters have called El Shinawi, specifically, "The Eye Hunter" and have sprayed "wanted" stencils featuring his face, name and rank on the walls around Tahrir Square.




i got it from corporate controlled CNN for what it's worth

It's horrible, I git this today from the Occupy Wall Street page

On November 22, occupiers of Tahrir Square issued an urgent call for global solidarity, asking the world to:

Occupy / shut-down Egyptian embassies worldwide. Now they represent the junta ; reclaim them for the Egyptian people.

Shut down the arms dealers. Do not let them make it, ship it.

Shut down the part of your government dealing with the Egyptian junta.

The Occupy movement is answering their call. Yesterday, hundreds marched on the Egyptian consulate in New York City.

In NYC today (Saturday, Nov 26), an Egyptian solidarity rally will begin at 1 PM at the Egypt Mission (East 44th St & 2nd Ave), with a march at 4PM.

An action is also being planned for Thursday, December 1st in front of a tear gas plant in Jamestown, Pennsylvania that has been supplying the Egyptian military junta. Participants from Occupy camps across the Northeast region will gather outside of the plant, which is owned by Combined Systems International.

http://occupywallst.org/

Then there this from today from the Tea Party site;

he Occupy Wall Street movement has been endorsed by our president, some members of Congress and by others as a movement that is good for America – one that shadows the tea party movement that began in 2009.

This movement just celebrated its two-month anniversary and is receiving unprecedented media coverage. Unlike the tea party movement, however, this group of people is involved in violence, lawbreaking and many other despicable actions.

If you listen to the media, the two groups seem to be voicing similar positions. In reality, however, they are worlds apart.

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/uncategorized/tea-party-is-nothing-like-occupy-movement/

[Turchinator]

question: have there been rapes at Occupy encampments? drug dealing? lawlessness?

no matter how the media presents it,exploits it, or hides it, there is a nasty side to the OWS tent city encampments- run-ins with the homeless and derelicts, etc... their General Assemblies are a laughing stock mess.

take action! I'm all for it. just shut the tent cities down, it's time.

[Dorothy Wood]

Do you guys defending the cops really want to live in a police state? Cops shouldn't be allowed to physically harm an unarmed citizen.

I saw a video of cops in my city confiscating a case of bottled water from protestors claiming it was "private goods in the public way". They made a whole big show of it, brought an actual garbage truck and threw it in it. What a waste of time and money.

Listen, I don't totally agree with the protests, but at least it's getting people talking about what's going on. This is an interesting article about everything: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-i-stopped-worrying-and-learned-to-love-the-ows-protests-20111110

Something's wrong, guys, that's why so many people are protesting. Everywhere you turn is a new scam, everyone's trying to sell you something everywhere you look. I get 1-4 phone calls every day at work with some kind of scam artist on the other end of the line, I get people walking in asking me if I want to sign up for such and such so I can "lower my energy bill", or "switch to a new merchant service provider". Why is this the norm? what happened to experiences and fellowship?

Everyone's just getting so shitty and lazy. One example: I've worked at the same place for 6 years, and we pay for a dumpster in the alley, the apartments in the building above us have their own giant dumpster specifically for tenants. Our dumpster has our company name on it and it says it's for us only, and for the first 4 years I worked there, that was enough. People respected it. But not anymore, the tenants' dumpster is just a few dumpsters down the alley, and I guess that's just too far for these fucking wannabe yuppie transplants. So we get disgusting wet kitchen garbage from these wasteful slobs, tossed into our dumpster with their zappos shoe boxes and whatever else white people like. And it fills up so rapidly that we have to let our garbage pile up in the store to the point it becomes a hindrance to our work. We can't even share our business neighbor's recycling dumpster anymore because the tenants kept filling that with non-recyclable trash so often, they had to get rid of it. We are paying the price for other people's laziness.

At least they're lazy enough to not shred their mail, so we know where they live, and we're keeping a list. We've contacted the building manager, put up signs, put a CHAIN on the dumpster...and it still happens. I left the lid open between trips the other day, and stepped out with a garbage can and saw a fake-tanned chick in a northface jacket and uggs walking out of the alley and thought, "I bet she put her garbage in our dumpster". And she did! there were old thongs in there, nutrisystem boxes, some burnt up scented candles, and her mail.


My point is, everyone's complaining about hippies and whatever, but how are they really affecting you personally? Something is wrong with the fact that you can be an idiot and a jerk and yet you think you're better than everyone else because your paycheck is bigger? It's ridiculous, Americans just consume consume consume. You think that chick bought a northface jacket because she's going hiking? How about those uggs? it wasn't even cold outside. Millions of people buy and do things because they are told by advertisers or convinced by mainstream society that this is what they need to look like and/or be in order to be a "normal" person.

Well, I don't want that bullshit, and plenty of other people reject that bullshit. Since when are we all required to be exactly the same? People are allowed to question the status quo, it is a right we have as Americans. Those who don't understand that need to grow up, think about the world from a different perspective. Not everyone is like you, and not everyone wants to be.

[Turchinator]

cool dumpster story, Dotty

[Dorothy Wood]

I know, it's a microcosm of what's wrong with society.

I've got more stories like that. Nouveau riche bastards. Their lifestyle is vulgar to me, the attitude is worse. I had some second rate "investment banker" (more like day trader) come in announcing he wanted something "expensive", a "veneer moulding" to put around some paintings (that he did not bring with him). So, he picked some samples (some of which looked awfully cheap/cheesy) and he wasn't quite satisfied because he wanted the MOST EXPENSIVE, so I said, "well, I can make a finished corner frame that is hand-carved and leafed with 14-carat gold for you for about $5,000". And he was like, "whoa, really?" and so I showed him our special fancy catalog that we only bring out for high rollers, and he was all, "oooh, I'll bring my stuff in later."

So, he brings his amateur paintings (as he described them), picks stuff out, I add it up and he is just shocked, SHOCKED! by the price. :rolleyes: Even though I got his order down to around $500 (vs. the previous high of $5,000). and I say, "hey, there are plenty of choices that would be half the amount or less", but nope...he WANTS the expensive choice, just doesn't want to pay for it. So he continues complaining, and I explain why it costs that much (mainly, the materials are expensive, it requires a skilled craftsman to complete, etc.) He decided to place the order and pay for it, makes some rude comments about how he's "in the wrong business" (the statement made to me by about a dozen other assholes over the years), and pleads for a discount. WTF? no class, none.

He talked down to me the entire time, yet he was a complete idiot. He probably makes 10 times my salary, at least, and he's a rude idiot. How can money determine a person's worth, if someone like that and others like him have so much money?


In my experience, people who are wealthy because they are skilled are more polite, they have respect for other people. But there's a whole shit ton of rude idiots who make a lot of money. So I guess that's why everyone's so mad.

[yeahwho]

question: have there been rapes at Occupy encampments? drug dealing? lawlessness?

no matter how the media presents it,exploits it, or hides it, there is a nasty side to the OWS tent city encampments- run-ins with the homeless and derelicts, etc... their General Assemblies are a laughing stock mess.

take action! I'm all for it. just shut the tent cities down, it's time.

Occupy means occupy. I don't know what to tell you, other than it's not about staying out of sight.

I have to admit it is a pretty effective idea. The peripheral people who have committed crimes in or around the Seattle Occupy movement are drawn to the movement because of food, warmth and tolerance. I've been out there at night myself wandering around... I surely would of stopped by @ 2AM if it were a different era, my drinking years.

That is a part of it, the crimes such as you describe were happening before OWS and will happen after OWS, statistically in Seattle drugs, rapes, assaults are down from this same time last year.

Civil disobedience is up.

On a side note, my girlfriend works at Macy's which opened at midnite at our local mall for Black Friday, the place was packed! That individual store bypassed the profits of 2010 by 6AM yesterday. What this tells me this, you can expect without a doubt Macy's will open at midnite after Thanksgiving in 2012.

[Turchinator]

you're from Seattle yeahwho, how is this movement any different than the anti-globalization WTO protest in 1999? everyone keeps talking about some great paradigm shift, I dont see it in the tent cities across America.

occupy means occupy, but for what?

[Sir SkratchaLot]

On a side note, my girlfriend works at Macy's which opened at midnite at our local mall for Black Friday, the place was packed! That individual store bypassed the profits of 2010 by 6AM yesterday. What this tells me this, you can expect without a doubt Macy's will open at midnite after Thanksgiving in 2012.

Personally, I think these black friday shoppers should be shot and raped on site. They have to know when they put themselves in that situation there is going to be violence. They're essentially asking to be assaulted by participating in these events. They get no sympathy from me. If your grandma get's raped at black friday, that's not my problem. She needs to get a job and stop wasting my tax dollars on snuggies.

[Turchinator]

so.... you support a movement that protests the separation of wealth in America but you don't support stimulating the economy in a recession by going to retail stores that pay their employees $12/hour, maybe with holiday overtime?

and since we are going on incredibly irrelevant anecdotal evidence to drive our opinions on OWS and Black Friday, I didn't see any violence at the car dealership that gave me the best offer of 2011 I could find :D

no one even got raped or pepper sprayed at the furniture wholesaler either.

in other news, more supporters came out to protest the EVICTION of the Occupy Camp in Downtown LA than there were actual OWS campers/protestors in the first place.


so back to my stance- it's time to protest the way police handle protests in this country, not corporate greed and wealth disparity.

[Whatitis]

The occupy movement is becoming nothing but pain in the ass. And it's more than a pain in the ass for the acclaimed 99% than who the protest is about. Looks like the occupy LA people, unhappy they are being booted from squatting on city hall, are going to target the ports of LA (http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_19424778?source=rv). All to "disrupt the capital flow and profits of the 1 percent in the billions of dollars." Really! And they give no thought to the actual people this movement is hurting most. The everyday workers, the so called 99%. Yea, they will make the news and a voice will be heard but at what cost to the people that need and want to work? The real question is what progress will be made by doing this. Nothing! Just like nothing came out of the Oakland port fiasco and really nothing coming out of the whole OWS movement. Well, nothing but a nuisance. And more of a nuisance to the people they are supposedly protesting for.

[Turchinator]

no one here wants to address that point, unfortunately.

they just want to support and be a part of the civil disobedience for a cause they don't even understand.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

so.... you support a movement that protests the separation of wealth in America but you don't support stimulating the economy in a recession by going to retail stores that pay their employees $12/hour, maybe with holiday overtime?

and since we are going on incredibly irrelevant anecdotal evidence to drive our opinions on OWS and Black Friday, I didn't see any violence at the car dealership that gave me the best offer of 2011 I could find :D

no one even got raped or pepper sprayed at the furniture wholesaler either.

in other news, more supporters came out to protest the EVICTION of the Occupy Camp in Downtown LA than there were actual OWS campers/protestors in the first place.


so back to my stance- it's time to protest the way police handle protests in this country, not corporate greed and wealth disparity.

Note to self, stop using sarcasm on the B-Boy's message board.

My point being, if OWS protesters are "asking for violence", then so is anybody who went shopping on black Friday. Violence is not justifiable just because its violence against something you don't like.

You know, I understand that you guys see this through your political filter, and want to spin it as another "failure" of Obama. We get the picture, you're card carrying republicans. It wouldn't matter if occupy Wall Street was fighting for 2nd amendment rights, you'd still find a way to hate it.

If it was the Tea Party doing this shit on the steps of government buildings, shutting down the government, you'd be all for it, as would all of the conservative talking heads. And on the other end of the spectrum you'd see Bill Mahr complaining about the dirty Tea Party's tactics. It's retarded really. You've been duped into defending the ultra-rich because you want to side with your "team". You still think the ultra-rich are going to trickle cash down on you if you keep feeding them?

And for the record, I completely agree that the occupy movement is a poor means of long term change. Half of these people are just as wacky as the whacked-out tea party people. Right now, the occupy thing is merely getting attention to an issue. That's not a revolution, but that's also not "nothing". If it was accomplishing "nothing" and the protests weren't threatening to the ultra rich, then the ultra-rich wouldn't be paying their talking heads to bash it 24/7 on Fox news.

You guys are so entrenched in the political side-taking that you'll blame everyday people for not "spurring the economy" by wasting their money on black Friday, but never stop to think about asking the same thing of the rich. If spending money is going to spur the economy then why haven't the rich taken a hit and lent more money to poor people? The working poor are the ones who are expected to spend beyond their means to “save” the economy so that rich people can have a better year, pocket the profits, and fail to reciprocate. And the ultra rich have duped poor conservatives into blaming it all on the government. They’d have you believe that if there was no government regulation then rich people would be giving you better wages and better benefits and nobody would spill oil all over the coasts and all would be well. That’s bullshit. Less regulation just means more money for people at the top. That does not translate into more money for you. It just means that you end up with polluted water and no means of redress when you get scammed.

If any of you actually think that we live in a purely capitalist society, or that pure capitalism (or pure socialism for that matter) is a good idea, then you're either really rich, or really gullible. Unchecked capitalism is a horrible idea, and without any restrictions you end up with a few people who modify all the rules so that they can get really rich at everyone else's expense. It’s just as bad as unchecked socialism. They’re both ideas that only work in theory and are doomed to fail in practice.

Like it or not you live in a society that you benefit from. By simply existing in society you have to give to get. You can't just take take take. If all you do is take, you get income disparity and eventually poor people will resort to violence and they will roll up on you and jack you. Even if you don't believe in religious morals such as helping the sick and the poor, there's also the fact that if you don't take care of the sick and the poor, they will jack your shit. You need some safety nets, and rules so that people can make a LIVING WAGE so that the society has some balance. In order to society to function properly you really need both capitalist and socialist ideas and programs. It's not a simple as "if you work hard you'll get really rich". If you actually believe that shit you are too simple to ever get really rich.

[Turchinator]

You know, I understand that you guys see this through your political filter, and want to spin it as another "failure" of Obama. We get the picture, you're card carrying republicans

You guys are so entrenched in the political side-taking that you'll blame everyday people for not "spurring the economy" by wasting their money on black Friday...



LOLOLOL, not at all dude.

I respect your opinion as well as a lot of opinions here.

but I'm the farthest from a card carrying Republican. I believe in hard work paying off, not necessarily to get rich. live within your means and dont overspend, like many of those who were victim to the corrupt banks.

I just don't see revolution as that big of a deal. protests in the past have had so much more meaning for such a greater cause.

I don't mind being "on the wrong side of history" here, I call it as I see it.

join a movement, protest on the streets.

pitching a tent is useless.

[yeahwho]

so.... you support a movement that protests the separation of wealth in America but you don't support stimulating the economy in a recession by going to retail stores that pay their employees $12/hour, maybe with holiday overtime?

and since we are going on incredibly irrelevant anecdotal evidence to drive our opinions on OWS and Black Friday, I didn't see any violence at the car dealership that gave me the best offer of 2011 I could find :D

no one even got raped or pepper sprayed at the furniture wholesaler either.





Note to self, stop using sarcasm on the B-Boy's message board.

My point being, if OWS protesters are "asking for violence", then so is anybody who went shopping on black Friday. Violence is not justifiable just because its violence against something you don't like. It is kind of ironic that there were protesters from Occupy Wall Street at various Wal-Marts across the USA on Black Friday yet the only reported pepper spraying was by a shopper inside the store.


I just don't see revolution as that big of a deal. protests in the past have had so much more meaning for such a greater cause.


I do think there is plenty of meaning and valuable lessons to be learned from Occupy Wall Street. We're just coming at it from different viewpoints. If we as citizens let corporate greed trump our own value system we have and will continue to be exploited.

live within your means and dont overspend, like many of those who were victim to the corrupt banks.

Today is a great day, in fact Awesome! Judge Jed S. Rakoff of United States District Court in Manhattan accomplished more for the people of the United States today than any elected official has the past decade as far as banking goes. He told Citigroup NO! Let's examine the facts behind the settlements decided between the SEC/Financial institutions.

Judge Blocks Citigroup Settlement With S.E.C. (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/29/business/judge-rejects-sec-accord-with-citi.html)

I'll copy and paste this part of the article, it's a bit to read but amazing in scope.

The judge, Jed S. Rakoff of United States District Court in Manhattan, ruled that the S.E.C.’s $285 million settlement, announced last month, is “neither fair, nor reasonable, nor adequate, nor in the public interest” because it does not provide the court with evidence on which to judge the settlement.

The ruling could throw the S.E.C.’s enforcement efforts into chaos, because a majority of the fraud cases and other actions that the agency brings against Wall Street firms are settled out of court, most often with a condition that the defendant does not admit that it violated the law while also promising not to deny it.

That condition gives a company or individual an advantage in subsequent civil litigation for damages, because cases in which no facts are established cannot be used in evidence in other cases, like shareholder lawsuits seeking recovery of losses or damages.

The S.E.C.’s policy — “hallowed by history, but not by reason,” Judge Rakoff wrote — creates substantial potential for abuse, the judge said, because “it asks the court to employ its power and assert its authority when it does not know the facts.”

Judge Rakoff also refers at one point to Citigroup as “a recidivist,” or repeat offender, which has violated the antifraud provisions of the nation’s securities laws many times. The company knew that the S.E.C.’s proposed judgment – that it cease and desist from violating the antifraud laws – had not been enforced in at least 10 years, the judge wrote.



That is a major part of what Occupy Wall Street has been talking about, accountability and transparency. Isn't this refreshing?

[Turchinator]

I do think there is plenty of meaning and valuable lessons to be learned from Occupy Wall Street. We're just coming at it from different viewpoints.


we're closer than you think yeahwho, we just both use a bunch of hyperbole on either side to get our points across.


That is a major part of what Occupy Wall Street has been talking about, accountability and transparency. Isn't this refreshing?

it's surely a good sign in the right direction. OWS began in mid September- I was hoping to see more action like this and less talking/repeating ad nauseum on bullhorns with a crowd of people who think it's hip to jump on the latest fad.

two very different pepper spray incidents in the same week, only in America right?

[travesty]

Not everyone is like you, and not everyone wants to be.

Nouveau riche bastards. Their lifestyle is vulgar to me, the attitude is worse. I had some second rate "investment banker" .

Wow! Seems to me that if you want people to repect how you live, you should probably start by respecting how others live. Passing cinical judgements and stereotypes is not the way to go about it.

This is what I am so tired of. Everyone preaches tolerance and says we should all "coexist" but I find that usually means that everyone else should tolerate the way I live and coexist with ME because my lifestyle and insight make my choices far far better than yours.

Makes my blood boil.

As for the OWS cops....you break th law, you get arrested. You resist or fail to obey commands... you get physically forced to comply. If any of this had happened to those "racist, gun toting, uneducated hicks" at a Tea Party rally every single one of you would be defending the cops. With that said, I think there have been some instances of the police crossing the lines. They are human, they make mistakes and they should be held accountable. It just seems that there are far too many interactions between the protesters and the police to begin with. How come we never saw any of this with the Tea Party? I actually support the ideals of OWS but the encampments are an emabarrasment to all and are accomplishing nothing.

[Mil Mascaras]

A MUST WATCH. Adam Carolla NAILS it. I agree with him 100%.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cJD8pZiRIzs#!

[Dorothy Wood]

Wow! Seems to me that if you want people to repect how you live, you should probably start by respecting how others live. Passing cinical judgements and stereotypes is not the way to go about it.

This is what I am so tired of. Everyone preaches tolerance and says we should all "coexist" but I find that usually means that everyone else should tolerate the way I live and coexist with ME because my lifestyle and insight make my choices far far better than yours.

Makes my blood boil.



My judgements were valid and the guy gave me his business card that said "investment banker", how am I stereotyping? I've been working with wealthy people for over 10 years. He wanted something expensive, but he didn't want to pay for it, but he did because he wanted something expensive. He disrespected me and my profession by undervaluing it, even though it's something he wants. Oh yeah, and he placed the order under his business name so he could write it off...even though it was clearly for his personal home.

Most of my clients have class and don't complain about price, because they know we do the best job in town, and we aren't even close to being the most expensive.

[Dorothy Wood]

Also, maybe google "nouveau riche". People have complained about that type of person for generations.

[Turchinator]

... you know, stuff white people like.

[travesty]

My judgements were valid and the guy gave me his business card that said "investment banker", how am I stereotyping? I've been working with wealthy people for over 10 years. He wanted something expensive, but he didn't want to pay for it, but he did because he wanted something expensive. He disrespected me and my profession by undervaluing it, even though it's something he wants. Oh yeah, and he placed the order under his business name so he could write it off...even though it was clearly for his personal home.

Most of my clients have class and don't complain about price, because they know we do the best job in town, and we aren't even close to being the most expensive.

But you took his money right? So you took his money and then want to piss and moan about him? Why didn't you tell him to fuck off? I assume it was because of your own "greedy, self-interest" right? You want to keep your business open, keep your employees working and make enough to support you and your family and to do that you have to maximize the return on each sale. You greedy capitalist:D However, that customer is also obligated, morally I might add, to pay as little as he can for each for each service, or product he purchases. He doesn't have to be an asshole in the process but you can't blame the guy for trying to get the best deal he can regardless of what's in his bank account. I'm sure you engage in the same type of negotiations with your vendors right? All I'm saying is that if you accepted him as a customer and YOU agreed to the deal as well, you really can't complain, that's just business. Especially to the degree that you attack his lifestyle (regardless of whether or not your assumptions about it are accurate or simply perceived). (n)


Don't think I don't know either. I deal with the "nouveau riche" every single day. They are a large part of my customer base. Strangely, after all of my years in this business I have found it simply impossible to determine who is going to be difficult to work with and who is not based soley on thier job title, bank statement or the car they drive. If any of those things were determining factors for civility or respectful social interaction, I'd probably have a lot less customers.

Also, maybe google "nouveau riche". People have complained about that type of person for generations.

"Complainers" are not a group with whom I choose to associate.

[BBboy20]

A MUST WATCH. Adam Carolla NAILS it. I agree with him 100%.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cJD8pZiRIzs#!Having CEOs make more personal profits then they ever have during economic downfalls makes no sense either.

[yeahwho]

Having CEOs make more personal profits then they ever have during economic downfalls makes no sense either.

Frank Luntz is the 1% spin doctor and according to him the above phrase should be redefined,

"If you give out a bonus at a time of financial hardship, you're going to make people angry. It's 'pay for performance.'"

This guy is a real work of art, he is a Republican pollster who is busy trying to minimize any revolt, by using nothing other than catch phrases.

From yesterday, in the Seattle PI.

Republican pollster: Words can kill Occupy Wall Street (http://www.seattlepi.com/default/article/Republican-pollster-Words-can-kill-Occupy-Wall-2346722.php)

[Dorothy Wood]

I didn't "take" his money, he offered it in exchange for goods and services. it's as simple as that. I gave him less expensive options, but he was trying to buy status, not just a product. He wanted a walmart price for handmade goods, and that just aint gonna happen. I don't give a shit about his lifestyle, and how would he even know what mine is? He was tacky and rude, and pretty clueless...bringing me to my overall point that wealth doesn't denote intelligence or class.

I'm sorry that you can't read people after all this time in business. You have a perception problem.

The guy has a moral obligation to not be a jerk. Since when is morality involved in trying to scam a discount. Our prices are fair, and we tell people that. Go to a corporate shop and they jack up the prices 400%, literally. Then smile as they hand you a coupon, then sneak in an extra fee to cover the loss. Discount culture is detrimental to our society, people want to get something for nothing, and stores manipulate the public based on that fact.

The getting something for nothing is what's wrong with banking, everything just turns to numbers without meaning, so the oligarchy just fucks everyone over because they're playing a game, not being truly productive.

[travesty]

I didn't "take" his money, he offered it in exchange for goods and services.
So provide that service and stop fooki' whining.

I'm sorry that you can't read people after all this time in business. You have a perception problem.
I can read people just fine, I just seem to lack the inclination to be as judgemental as you do.


The getting something for nothing is what's wrong with America , everything just turns to numbers without meaning, so the Government just fucks everyone over because they're playing a game, not being truly productive.

I couldn't agree more.

[Dorothy Wood]

You're the one who beat it to death and started crying about me not accepting his "lifestyle".

Man, arguing with you is like arguing with a precocious 12 year old...you make some valid points, but in the end I just want you to grow up.

[Nicodemus]

Occu-poo.

[Turchinator]

you said it nicodemus


Occupy Los Angeles Legacy: Stench, Trash, Property Damage

By ROBERT JABLON | December 2, 2011

Associated Press

The reek of urine and unwashed bodies hung over the former Occupy Los Angeles camp Wednesday as masked sanitation workers hauled away 25 tons of debris from the barren lawns around City Hall.
Collapsed and overturned tents, scattered bedding, paperback books, bicycles, shoes, food and other belongings were tossed by shovel or pitchfork into trash trucks after a small army of police peacefully swarmed the nearly two-month encampment. City officials who had tolerated the economic protest for weeks had finally declared the area a health and safety hazard earlier in the week.

Crews set up concrete barriers and chain-link fencing around the sea of debris and dirt that used to be grass. Left behind was a sea of belongings. Frontloaders scooped up larger items, including wooden cabinets.
“It’s so contaminated, it doesn’t even make sense to sort it out,” said Jose “Pepe” Garcia, 49, superintendent of the city’s north central sanitation district.
A dozen city sanitation workers were suited up in white coveralls, gloves and boots after reports that there might be a lice or flea infestation, Garcia said.

Sanitation workers had been hauling away as much as 2 tons of trash a day from the site, but hygiene remained a problem despite rows of portable toilets, he said. Plastic gallon bottles of urine and smaller bottles were set aside for special disposal.
“They had no means to wash up. They had no means to shower,” Garcia said. “You’ve got bottles of urine, that’s the biggest hazard in there.”
Crews have cleaned up homeless encampments with similar issues before but never on the scale of the Occupy LA bivouac.
“I’ve never seen anything like this,” said Elton Atkins, a city refuse collection supervisor.
“Pretty disgusting,” said Pamela Thompson, a legal analyst who works nearby and saw the camp almost daily.
“This should have been taken care of a long time ago,” she said.
However, one former occupant blamed the police raid for trashing the tent city.

Samantha Schrepel, 27, stood by a stroller containing her 5-month-old son, Kenny, on the sidewalk in front of the fenced-off lawn and chatted with police officers guarding the site.
Schrepel had been staying in the tent city but was elsewhere when it was raided. Her tent, warm blankets and other items were being trashed as she watched.
“It’s a mess,” she said. “When I was there, my area was always clean. We had people who swept the sidewalks. I think everything got crushed in the chaos.”

Schrepel was philosophical about her loss.
“I think it’s teaching us that these are just (material) things,” she said.
The encampment turned the once-lush City Hall lawns into patches of dirt strewn with debris. Crude graffiti was scrawled on some City Hall walls. A treehouse constructed of wooden pallets lashed to four palm trees stood empty. It was decorated with U.S. flags, a pinata, various secondhand objects and signs that read “free hugs” and “we are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams.”
Occupy LA protesters destroyed the grass, damaged trees and sprayed graffiti on statues before the statues were boarded up, said Leo Martinez, a division manager with the city sanitation department.
“I understand the political statement they’re trying to make. But I don’t like the way they went about getting the message across,” he said.
“Look at all the damage they caused,” Martinez said as he surveyed the heaps of debris.

[Dorothy Wood]

oh boy, they ruined the grass! nooo! Maybe they should've made the protestors clean up, instead of "raiding" the camp and kicking everything over?


I don't agree with the camping over night thing, but holy shit, getting butthurt over some garbage is pathetic.

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/g/L/4/Occupy-Movement.jpg

[Whatitis]

If the "some garbage" = bottles of urine. pallets clung to trees, a row of portable toilets, spray painted statues, lice and fleas and not to mention the trash, tents and just the pure unhealthiness of the whole situation that took over a lush healthy lawn? Yea, butthurt would be a good word to describe it.

[Whatitis]

What's pathetic about trying to keep something clean and healthy? I'd be butthurt over a trashy lawn too.

[Burnout18]

A MUST WATCH. Adam Carolla NAILS it. I agree with him 100%.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cJD8pZiRIzs#!

That was fucking awesome. I recall carlin saying something similar about kids who had their asses kissed their whole lives didn't realized they sucked until they hit the real world, so iwas glad to see carlin's name tagged here.

[Burnout18]

oh boy, they ruined the grass! nooo! Maybe they should've made the protestors clean up, instead of "raiding" the camp and kicking everything over?


I don't agree with the camping over night thing, but holy shit, getting butthurt over some garbage is pathetic.

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/g/L/4/Occupy-Movement.jpg

Yes. That is a public park. What the fuck right do they have ruin the grass that belongs to all of us?

"they" should have made the protesters clean up? Yeah right like the entitled anarchists would listen to anyone outside their camp.

[Burnout18]

you said it nicodemus

Samantha had a 5 month old with her? Please tell me she wasn't stupid enough to bring a 5 month old to live in a tent city with her.

[Dorothy Wood]

If the "some garbage" = bottles of urine. pallets clung to trees, a row of portable toilets, spray painted statues, lice and fleas and not to mention the trash, tents and just the pure unhealthiness of the whole situation that took over a lush healthy lawn? Yea, butthurt would be a good word to describe it.

What's pathetic about trying to keep something clean and healthy? I'd be butthurt over a trashy lawn too.

There should've been an intervention before it got out of hand. And you're spoiled. Pests were a part of human life for thousands of years before the mid 20th century.

Like I said, I never agreed with creating a tent city, but it could've been controlled instead of left to fester.

[Turchinator]

lol "intervention". City Hall LA was prepared to give them office space and farmland. they gave their blessing to stay and protest until they left 25 tons of refuse and began to infest the place that had once been a lush public space.

maybe a group of protestors who believe in peaceful protest can take it upon themselves to keep an area clean before they ever leave the place.

it was the city who "should have made them clean up"?? LOLOLOL

I wonder why the guys who give free hugs and the "music makers" didn't stay and clean? these folks, and you included dorothy SHOULD be thoughtful and mindful of something like this

what a shame.

[Turchinator]

I wonder if 25 tons of refuse became a hindrance to anyone's work. I mean everyone's just getting so shitty and lazy. it's almost as if we are paying the price for other peoples laziness!




Everyone's just getting so shitty and lazy. One example: I've worked at the same place for 6 years, and we pay for a dumpster in the alley, the apartments in the building above us have their own giant dumpster specifically for tenants. Our dumpster has our company name on it and it says it's for us only, and for the first 4 years I worked there, that was enough. People respected it. But not anymore, the tenants' dumpster is just a few dumpsters down the alley, and I guess that's just too far for these fucking wannabe yuppie transplants. So we get disgusting wet kitchen garbage from these wasteful slobs, tossed into our dumpster with their zappos shoe boxes and whatever else white people like. And it fills up so rapidly that we have to let our garbage pile up in the store to the point it becomes a hindrance to our work. We can't even share our business neighbor's recycling dumpster anymore because the tenants kept filling that with non-recyclable trash so often, they had to get rid of it. We are paying the price for other people's laziness.

[Dorothy Wood]

It is definitely a shame, but just another indication that things are broken. I don't know why they had so much stuff in the first place.

My main point is that the damage they've done is minuscule compared to the damage done by the people and ideas being protested.

Corporations own the news, of course they want to play up the "dirty hippie" aspect. I'm saying that laziness also took part in the dismantling and clean up of the camps. It shouldn't have been like "let's knock over everything then scoop it up with a bulldozer".

Listen, I don't agree with the methods of the occupy movement, but it's serving a purpose, shedding light on issues that need to be addressed.

So while you babies aren't whining about garbage, the oligarchy is doing what it can to keep you focused on that instead of their systematic dismantling of our democracy.

[Turchinator]

I'm not buying the corporate owned media bias argument- the Associated Press is a non profit cooperative stating the facts, independent of the major news networks.

[Dorothy Wood]

Sure, keep telling yourself that.

[Turchinator]

and you keep telling yourself that the corporate controlled media shills are feeding the sheeple...

OLIGARCHY

[Dorothy Wood]

I knew that word before occupy. And I have friends who are journalists, who told me more than 10 years ago that 3 corporations control all media.

[Turchinator]

are your journalist friends still in the business? you should ask them how the Associated Press fits into that system. I would like to know more, and you should be asking these questions as well. I mean, plenty has changed in 10 years. I also have a journalist friend who is a freelance reporter for the AP. He is free to travel the world and report about whatever he desires. Its up to the conglomerate of newspapers whether they want to pick up his stories or not. Usually, his fact based reports make the news wire worldwide- no op-ed pieces or left or right leaning bias either.



question though-is it not a fact that 25 tons of trash was left behind? nowhere in the article does it mention a dirty hippy anywhere.


So while you babies aren't whining about garbage

again, cool dumpster story, Dotty
I think the word you want is Oligopoly

[Burnout18]

Corporations own the news, of course they want to play up the "dirty hippie" aspect. I'm saying that laziness also took part in the dismantling and clean up of the camps. It shouldn't have been like "let's knock over everything then scoop it up with a bulldozer".

So while you babies aren't whining about garbage, the oligarchy is doing what it can to keep you focused on that instead of their systematic dismantling of our democracy.

No no no no! Its not the corporate media thats portraying the dirty hippie aspect, it's the dirty hippies high as kite and dirty as hell that are portraying a dirty hippie aspect. I've had the pleasure of going downtown A LOT. Based on what I've seen, ehhhh proper hygiene and the ability to stay sober are totally not required. So lets not blame the media here, that's kinda silly.

[Dorothy Wood]

I don't feel like arguing about this stuff anymore, think what you want. I just see mostly average people participating in the movement in my city. They have classes and meetings and are trying to educate people so things can be changed for the better. So maybe some people aren't as clean as the media tells them to be, they're not dousing themselves with chemicals packaged in plastic daily. so what? It's a non issue compared to the importance of the overall message.

I think you guys are biased and brainwashed, and so, so whiny.

Btw "cool story" is the lamest attempt at a burn.

[Turchinator]

It's the Internet "deal with it" :cool:

I didn't understand your manifesto earlier that you called a microcosm of the Occupy movement. it was a whole rambling about an office dumpster. it looked like you were whining about garbage, i thought it was ironic. I didn't get the "scam" comparison either. nobody's trying to run a scam on me or trick me into a loan I can't afford.

[Dorothy Wood]

It's all a scam, you have way more things than you need and you didn't choose that way to live, you were guided into it so someone else could profit.

My garbage story was about people being disrespectful, about wasting things, about being lazy.


You don't want to listen to anything that isn't your exact point of view.

[Turchinator]

I'm listening Dorothy, but I'm not sure what people being mean assholes has to do with the Occupy movement, that's what brought you into the discussion. wastefulness and laziness are not the talking points of the Occupy movement- income inequality and corporate greed are.

you and I both said we don't support the tent cities, so we are on the same page there.

you said people are being wasteful and lazy, I showed an article where 25 tons of refuse was left behind in a biohazard. this was from the side PROTESTING. don't you see the connection I am making?

I'm kind of a minimalist, sooooo..... your view there is kind of moot.

and I'm totally listening to you not make any sense.

peaceandimout

[M|X|Y]

im not much into political debate but i saw this while browsing the interwebs.

don't know if there's a thread on this but, coming from MTV of all places,... things that make you go whaaaa?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CHkDd8wKGg

[Dorothy Wood]

I'm listening Dorothy, but I'm not sure what people being mean assholes has to do with the Occupy movement, that's what brought you into the discussion. wastefulness and laziness are not the talking points of the Occupy movement- income inequality and corporate greed are.

you and I both said we don't support the tent cities, so we are on the same page there.

you said people are being wasteful and lazy, I showed an article where 25 tons of refuse was left behind in a biohazard. this was from the side PROTESTING. don't you see the connection I am making?

I'm kind of a minimalist, sooooo..... your view there is kind of moot.

and I'm totally listening to you not make any sense.

peaceandimout


sorry, I don't really know you, I just lost my temper and I've been typing everything from my phone, which is why there was so much rambling. dumb idea on my part, I can see how I wasn't expressing myself very clearly.


I guess I meant that the Occupy movement began out of dissatisfaction, as a kind of primal rage against the status quo and selfish jerks. My overall point about journalism was that the media front loads stories about Occupy with the negative aspects, and they try to report on anything and everything scandalous about the movement...when there are plenty of other things to be outraged by, and a lot of positive things are being spurred by the protestors.

Personally, I don't think they should've ever been allowed to camp because people don't realize what it takes to live outside and they just bring a bunch of stupid shit and don't know how to keep clean. But I also don't think that cops should've gone in and kicked everybody out and knocked everything over. I don't agree with the way authorities deal with things by showing up and shouting at everyone. Why did they have to go in with riot gear at 12:30 a.m.? Why not go in in the morning around 8 a.m. and say "hey, get your stuff out of here by sun down, or you'll be arrested for unlawful assembly". It's just ridiculous to me how all of this has been handled. The mayor told them on sunday to get out by wednesday, which gave the protestors time to pack up, but also time to settle in and decide not to leave. But coming in with 1,400 cops at midnight is a show, a circus. People could've cleaned up, but there was no negotiation, it was melodrama.

Anyway, now that the camps are cleared, I hope the protestors can move on to more productive action.

oh, and I did mean oligarchy, or oligarchs, because I was speaking about people in power. oligopoly is a market structure, not a type of person.

And to clarify the scam part, I just mean that tricking people out of their money and then telling them they asked for it is a national pastime for big business.


it just sucks, the system sucks. so to me, the camp garbage was a non-issue. But I shouldn't have gotten personal, I'm just stressed.

[yeahwho]

I'm not buying the corporate owned media bias argument- the Associated Press is a non profit cooperative stating the facts, independent of the major news networks.

AP also just came out with the story on 1 in 2 people in America are low income.

Pretty startling information to recieve at any point in a society.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gkc3uqGuPnGfO90dElARcCQvgTvA?docId=9576d6a63 43c46b1abbd0184a9244305

[Burnout18]

AP also just came out with the story on 1 in 2 people in America are low income.

Pretty startling information to recieve at any point in a society.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gkc3uqGuPnGfO90dElARcCQvgTvA?docId=9576d6a63 43c46b1abbd0184a9244305

Obama's legacy?!?!?!

[yeahwho]

Obama's legacy?!?!?!

If continuing on with Bush's tax policy seems like a good idea then sure, only an idiot would think the current system in place is working.

Occupy Wall Street is leading the way as far as getting the message out on how unchecked corporate greed can destroy an economy. Our system is dysfunctional, people shouldn't have to take to the streets to make that point be heard, but here we are. It's 2011 and we have to live in encampments to get the point across.

[Turchinator]

Occupy Congress is calling for a million tents on January 17th on Capitol Hill. there's a whole bunch of facebook activity promoting this.


also, here's an interesting letter I read:

Open Letter from a Marine Tea Partier to All Occupiers

Posted on 12/12/2011 (http://libertyspinnetwork.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/open-letter-from-a-marine-tea-partier-to-all-occupiers/)
First of all, I’m surprised you’re reading this. Thanks to the corrupt media, many of you might be clueless to the fact we share quite a bit of commonground.

Let me clarify: By “Tea Party,” I am in no way referring to the hijacked movement we know and love today. By “Tea Party,” I don’t mean Iran warmongers, bailout lovers, the “extreme right,” and people who think what happens in your bedroom affects them in any way. No, what I mean is the Tea Party as it started in 2007 as opposition to Bush policies.
The media loves to paint a picture of OWS vs. TP, “right” vs. “left,” etc. It’s an old tactic called divide and conquer. If we fight amongst ourselves, no one looks at the true criminals at work in society.

Of course, Fox loves to make corporations out to be our “capitalist saviors.” They’ll cover every corrupt government action they can find (if there’s a Democrat in the White House), but they won’t admit the greed of the mega banks and corporations. They rarely talk about the private Federal Reserve system and how it robs the lower and middle classes of their wealth via inflation. MSNBC is no better. They do point out how the corporations literally stole trillions of dollars from the American people through the bailouts and the Fed. However, for some reason they’re hard-pressed to admit these actions are carried out by government guns. CNN is STILL no better. In their effort to be “right down the middle” they don’t point out any of the criminals! Whether in the corporate world or the government.
And by the way, we do need to start calling actions like the bailouts what they are: Theft. The corporations, through their rental politicians, used government force to take from the people trillions of dollars. If we refuse to pay the taxes to pay this “debt” off we face risk of government guns carrying us off to jail. That is the very definition of theft.

This brings us back to the commonground we share. The original Tea Party (not counting the historical Boston Tea Party) was focused on ending the corporatist (fascist?) model ourselves. The original Tea Party was for ending the wars and against policing the world. We are against legislation that invades privacy of citizens here and abroad. Think unPatriot Act and the recently passed NDAA bill. The NDAA gives the military the authority to raid homes without warrants and imprison citizens indefinitely without trial.
If we actually want to change this country, we have to unite on issues like these and others. General Assemblies: invite Tea Party groups to participate. If you can find shared values organize joint protests. If you can find local Tea Parties that want to occupy with you, encourage it.

The system we live under is a corporatist model rapidly deteriorating into a fascist police state. The reason I added “Marine” to the heading of this letter was to (hopefully) attract active duty servicemembers, veterans, and law enforcement. We took an oath to the Constitution in order to join. The oath clearly gives us not only the option, but the responsibility to disobey ALL illegal orders. The police attacking peaceful protesters in the streets are in direct violation of that oath. If you are attacking peaceful people you are already on the wrong side of history.

Remember, focus on commonground. Just don’t look to government to be our saviors. Our politicians (yes, including our President) are bought and paid for by corporations and the mega banks. In fact, Obama’s biggest campaign donor is Goldman Sachs. His Treasury Secretary worked at Goldman Sachs himself. Why do you think some Europeans call us the United States of Goldman Sachs?

Semper Fi and Semper Occupare. Because nothing would terrify the establishment more than a united Occupy Tea Party movement.


- Cpl. Stephen Mark Allen, USMC


http://libertyspinnetwork.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/open-letter-from-a-marine-tea-partier-to-all-occupiers/

[Burnout18]

If continuing on with Bush's tax policy seems like a good idea then sure, only an idiot would think the current system in place is working.

Occupy Wall Street is leading the way as far as getting the message out on how unchecked corporate greed can destroy an economy. Our system is dysfunctional, people shouldn't have to take to the streets to make that point be heard, but here we are. It's 2011 and we have to live in encampments to get the point across.

Ehhhh nahhhh. How long does would Obama have to carry on "bush's" tax cuts before they become his too? And I don't think tax increases of 5 or even 10 percent on the top tax bracket magically fix the income gap you spoke of earlier. Nor does it fix the corporate greed you speak of now.

Gotta say, I had high hopes for Obama, I am admittedly let down here. Oh well!

[Turchinator]

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.The. Occupation. Is . Dead.

Buy-Out Buy-In
proposal for GA: Dec. 18th, 2011
One month ago, we were kicked out of Zuccotti. Today, we had a major action at Canal St. Regardless of whether you support an eventual occupation at that location, it feels like this chapter of Occupy Wall Street is coming to a close. Regardless of the success our movement has in the future, the forceful and criminal eviction of November 15th still hurts. It hurts to be holding GA’s here in an empty park. It hurts to stand here in the cold, fighting for nothing. I do not mean that we don’t stand for principles.

I mean that we don’t have a physical home.

There is nothing here. There are no structures. There is no sign of our community. There is no life. Yes, we are here. But we have become tourists. We visit the park, we do not occupy it. I don’t care how hard core you are, you eventually leave to seek shelter somewhere else. You have to. The park has been, to use Bloomberg’s term, sanitized. The germs, the occupiers, the us, have been scrubbed clean.

One month ago I proposed that we take all of the funds in the general fund and divide them among the occupiers. A lot of people thought this was a crazy idea. A lot of people aren’t thinking it’s such a crazy idea anymore.
Immediate questions come up: How would you split up the money? Who would get it? How would you give everyone access to the tools to spend it wisely? How would current projects continue to be funded? Why would you do this?

I can’t answer all of these questions. But I can answer the last one. Why should we make an effort to give the money that Zuccotti was donated to the people who occupied the park? Because the park is dead. Look around you.

The occupation.
Is.
Dead.

Whether it can be reborn, here or in another location, is entirely up to us. But we have to acknowledge that the first phase of our occupation ended a month ago. And the only ethical thing to do is to empower people to make their own decision as to where they want to go from here.

The money can go to individuals. It can go to working groups. It can go to working groups that were established before the raid. It can go to all working groups created as of today. It can go to all of us here at GA right now. We don’t have to decide this right now. All I’m asking you to decide tonight is whether we SHOULD make an effort to split up the general fund and empower people to make their own decision as to where this movement is heading.

The fact is, currently people are meeting in secret to decide just that. They say things like, the GA is broken, while they empower Spokes Council. They say things like, we’re bleeding money, while they help shovel it out the door. They are not asking for your feedback. They are not here tonight.
The fact is, the working group formally known as finance has been incompetent from the beginning. God bless them, they have not successfully executed their mission, through purposeful or malicious negligence.

-how can you have a manpower issue in a populist revolution?
-how can you not begin electronic tracking of receipts and expenses from day one?
-how can you resent demands for greater transparency in a movement that attacks corruption?
-how can you allow yourself to become a bottleneck to efficiency?

A lot of people here have a lot of personal reform ideas. They would like to see more subway cards. They would like to see better housing options. They would like to see a more efficient kitchen. They would like to reform all of our resources, including SIS and the occupied office. They would like to strengthen this GA and perhaps even abolish Spokes. They would like to audit and reform finance. They would like, in summary, to be empowered to do what they came here to do: create a better America.

The only wisdom I have to offer is that reform, change, revolution, works best from the bottom up. We criticise a society of hierarchy while we recreate it here in our movement. We defend the victims of power concentration out there while we allow ourselves to be victimized right here, marginalized as a bunch of shivering idealists standing in the cold while the center of gravity of this movement openly shifts away from this park.

Now I’m speaking to every one of you here in attendance, not the movement. I’m not talking to Occupy Wall Street anymore. What’s your name? What’s your name? And yours? You have the purse strings of the movement right now. But you do not have the power. People who are good at managing social networks are grabbing up the power. They are organizing, so that they can “guide” the movement. They are starving the GA, allowing it to die on the vine. They are watching the money in the bank disappear. They have openly said that they don’t want to see our funds increase. Why would they promote that, they say. The GA is fucking nuts.

Well show them how fucking nuts you are. If you pass this proposal tonight, you will agree to divide up all of the money in the general fund among the occupiers. At the next GA, we will ask for representatives from each working group, as well as representatives of the occupiers who do not participate in working groups. We will empower them to decide the best way to divide up the money, in a transparent and legal way.

Occupy Wall Street faces a lot of problems. There are current internal power grabs. There is a geographical relocation. There is a fucking cold ass winter coming up. But the biggest problem that Occupy Wall Street has is that it is technically dead. There ain’t nobody occupying Wall Street, unless you count the part timers who make up the majority of 60 Wall Street or the privileged who make up a majority of the office on Broadway.
What I am trying to do, the only thing I’m trying to do, is to hold up a mirror. And then give you the tools to be reborn, in the image of your own creation, with the reforms you want implemented from the start. Want to rent a building? Take your share of the fund, get together with other people, and do it. Want to do your own thing? Go ahead and execute. Some people say that there are those who will just take the money and run. To them I say, if you don’t trust that we are all here out of sincerity, we have a lot more at risk than just going broke. I don’t know about you, but Occupy Wall Street is not my retirement plan.

A new world is my retirement plan.

But in order for that world to be born, we have to acknowledge that the old one has died. Buy yourselves out so you can buy back in, and bypass those who seek to control the movement. The only way the few has ever won against the many has been through maneuvering. Right now the control of money is in the hands of the few. With a little creativity we can put it in the hands of the many. You can outmaneuver the people who currently hold power in this movement. Because, let’s not be naive. This movement has created a power structure.

You can dissolve that power structure in one decisive action. And we can get on with this revolution.

One more thing: do the right thing and watch our donations soar. Right is right, people will respect us for trusting in each other. And when they see what we do when we put that money to good use, they won’t be able to ignore us.

I’d like to do a temperature check on this and then move on for the sake of time if there isn’t enough interest to warrant a discussion.


http://www.nycga.net/2011/12/18/proposal-for-sunday-1218-general-assembly-buy-out-buy-in/

hey Occupiers, let's split up all this money we made! that'll show 'em!

[yeahwho]

Do you think that Occupy Wall Street is officially dead?

[Turchinator]

yes, as I don't see this representative group taking action or affecting real change.

though, the same could be said for the Obama administration...

[yeahwho]

Other than gaining headlines daily for 4 months and becoming an international phenomenon, making 1% and 99% part of an international vernacular and coincidentally at last look 66% of US citizens believe there is a tangible, real income inequality that is crippling our economy....

for the most part sure, like Obama you don't see this representative group taking action or affecting real change.

[Dorothy Wood]

One GA discussion doesn't kill a movement.

Turchinator, now that I've seen your wedding photo, I can tell why you don't understand occupy. You're male, you're white, you have money, you're doing alright, so why would you understand? you don't really want to. you think things are fine because they're fine for you. but they're not fine for a lot of people.

Occupy will and should continue in one way or another, and that was actually the main point of what you posted...not, "let's split the cash and go back to normal". the "occupy" name does not need to be literal. Collecting money and using it to affect change is the game we play in America, and it'd be naive to expect to change anything without money.


As for Obama, his election set the wheels in motion for change. I never saw him as a savior, but I feel like he is helping to turn things in a different direction. Even if that only means he has ruffled the feathers of right wing extremists so much that they reveal their hatred and stupidity so it can be shut down by rational citizens.

[Turchinator]

weird to bring in a wedding photo into the discussion.

who ever said I have money? I make less than a teacher would. it's a rented tux from Mens Wearhouse but thanks for commenting.

most of the Occupy Movement is young white America. do they understand better than I would? what is "doing fine" to most Americans?

what is a GA discussion anyway? I thought they were going to take Congress this month and they are still pussyfooting around what to do with this massive fund they received while gaining their momentum. That was the main point of what I was posting.

but I see what you're saying, this is one guy and his proposal.

it just seems , so.... greedy.

I am a liberal who doesn't support the Occupy Movement. Oh the Humanity!

[Dorothy Wood]

It's hard to discuss this rationally when you are so defensive. You have the privilege of being able to afford a wedding, many people can't afford that...I can't, and I know a cheap wedding is at least 10,000. Even if you didn't pay yourself, the funds were available to you.
My point is you seem out of touch, you gloss over details...a woman wrote that piece you posted, not a guy. And if you'd bothered to investigate, it was a proposal from one person, with comments below it for and against. It was far from a definitive statement speaking for the whole movement.

[Turchinator]

defensive only to the extent that your comment was offensive

back on topic-that's why I said "I see your point" regarding this proposal. I see this was like a message board on the Occupy site for posters like us to debate and discuss. I'm just bringing the discussion back here after a month of being dormant. I am also willing to see both sides as commented by those for and against it and post my own comments as well.

seriously, Dorothy, leave me and my means to afford a wedding out of this. I shared the happy day in the Family Album, let's leave it there okay?

I read this piece today about applying leadership skills in the workplace used from the lessons of the Occupy movement and I thought it was an interesting read.

Occupy Your Company: Three Leadership Lessons from Zuccotti Park


When the NYPD evacuated Zuccotti Park, forcibly removing the protesters who had made the public space their nerve center, organizational laboratory, and home for more than two months, they brought to a close a significant chapter of the Occupy crusade. While its populist message of frustration with government dysfunction, financial regulation, and joblessness undoubtedly impacted the American political dialogue, the effort's long-term effects remain to be seen. Regardless of whether or not Occupy Wall Street and its sister organizations become catalysts for systemic change (or your political perspective on the merits of reform) the protesters have taught us a number of critical lessons about mobilizing movements that leaders -- whether business, political, or non-profit -- should bear in mind.



Balance consensus with decree. One of the most distinctive features of the Occupy movement is its embrace of a highly participatory, democratic means of decision-making otherwise known as the General Assembly. The details of General Assembly management (http://takethesquare.net/2011/07/31/quick-guide-on-group-dynamics-in-peoples-assemblies/) are somewhat complex, but they're grounded in a simple process. Any participant may bring to the table a proposal for the group's discussion. A facilitated conversation ensues that seeks to establish consensus -- defined in this case as the absence of "outright opposition." If consensus is achieved, the proposal is put into action. Otherwise, participants may rework proposals and reintroduce them for further debate.


What's great about the General Assembly is the way it engages participants in dialogue and makes them integrally involved in shaping the way forward. When decisions are finally made, they're more likely to be pursued with dedication since they're created by team members rather than imposed on them. On the other hand, consensus-based decision-making -- especially among large groups like the 2,000 plus OWS protesters -- is incredibly slow.



Giving every person with a perspective equal opportunity to share and participate in debate is a recipe for inaction. As leaders, our job is to establish forums for bottom up feedback without promising an equal measure of "air-time" or credence to all team members. Gather ideas, host discussions, confer with advisors, but retain decision-making authority. Whenever possible, resist the temptation to divvy up accountability for making the call. Execution works best when there's one person at the helm.



Inspire through emotion; support through community. There's a lot about Occupy Wall Street that's illogical: picking a fight with a faceless political-economic system, camping out in downtown Manhattan, drum circles. And yet thousands of people dedicated their lives to the occupation for months on end. They self-organized into working groups, cooked meals, and cleaned up each other's mess. They launched a media hub and established a library. They marched. They chanted. Some got arrested (http://takethesquare.net/2011/07/31/quick-guide-on-group-dynamics-in-peoples-assemblies/) rather than abandon their convictions. No one got paid. There were no bonuses awarded for superior performance.



You don't inspire this kind of behavior through rational appeals. There is no "business case" that motivates people to sacrifice and give of themselves so passionately. To mobilize movements, participants have to be emotionally connected to the work at hand. There must be a force bigger than profits or prestige that calls them forward. And to sustain that momentum in the face of the challenges that confront any group, there needs to be a sense of togetherness that binds individuals to one another. We are social beings. We yearn for community. When we triumph and when we fail, we turn to one another -- for celebration or for the strength to carry on.



Can you identify the cause that anchors your organization and inspires your colleagues to bring their best to work everyday? Is it something simple and human? Does it tap your emotions and capture your imagination? Once you've nailed it -- and you'll know it when you have -- rally your teams around that cause and remind them of it daily. Then, take a moment to consider the nature of your organization's community. Does it balance a drive for performance with caring and compassion for team members? Does it value the personal and professional growth of its members as it values the bottom line? Is it a community you're proud to lead and be a part of? If your answer is anything less than an emphatic "Yes!" consider what needs to be done to move in that direction.



Power off and tune in. One of the restrictions placed on the protesters in New York was a ban on the use of amplification. The idea was to limit the "sound pollution" inflicted on local residents and businesses. This may not seem so significant out of context, but the absence of mics was a big hurdle for a group of thousands of people trying to communicate with one another. From that challenge was born an innovative solution -- the human microphone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIK7uxBSAS0). Here's how it works. The speaker shares a short burst of commentary. The crowd -- particularly those closest to the speaker -- repeats what was spoken in unison, so those in back can hear. For particularly large assemblies, the crowd might use several waves of repetition to ensure all those attending register the speaker's words. It's not the most efficient means of public speaking, but there is something powerful in the human microphone's ability to capture participants' attention. The absence of technology prioritizes the message over the medium and builds an almost tribal bond between those involved.


In the modern workplace, most of us spend our days sitting alone behind computer screens. Our teams are often virtual with colleagues dispersed around the world. We communicate and engage with one another via email, instant messaging, and social media. Many of our meetings are phone calls, or if we're lucky, videoconferences. There are fewer and fewer opportunities to gather together in the same room. The strong ties built on face-to-face interaction have been replaced by the relatively weak connections afforded to us through technology. That's not to say that technology is bad. To the contrary, it can be a powerful enabler of cross-organizational connectivity. But it cannot replace the power of human interaction. The Occupy level commitment that leaders need of their people to support a large-scale transformation, break into a new market, or launch a disruptive product demands a reinvestment in face time.



Whether you're a senior leader or a new manager, consider what would happen if you made the decision to power off -- if only briefly -- in 2012. What kind of ideas would be generated if you got up from your computer and walked down to your colleague's desk the next time you have to speak with her? How might the investment to fly to your next divisional meeting and engage face-to-face with your team members pay itself off? What if you canceled your lunch date with Facebook and booked a team get together instead? It's tough to measure the dollar value of recommitting to building real, human connections with your coworkers, but the trust you will engender among colleagues will no doubt rise. From a leadership perspective, if your people trust you -- if they have confidence that you have their best interests in mind -- they'll follow you anywhere. And even if you're not a leader, you'll find your work experience much more satisfying when it's shared with people, not just machines.



Occupy Wall Street may seem like an unlikely source of leadership and organizational wisdom. But before you dismiss the protesters, consider that great ideas often come from the fringe and what's counter-cultural today becomes mainstream tomorrow. Regardless of your political persuasion, the Occupy movement illustrates valuable lessons about decision-making, community building, and what it takes to inspire a group of people to dedicate themselves wholeheartedly to a cause.
What's the first step you'd take to occupy your company?

so many good points to take away from this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-dworkin/occupy-wall-street-leadership_b_1206290.html

[yeahwho]

If the mitigating factor of Occupy Wall Street is that they accepted smelly unbathed homeless wanderers into their realm... that is so Christian and morally right that I can't help but think their cause as being one of more frustrating causes to republicans/democrats/corporate backers than anything imaginable.

The more exclusive the politicians become the uglier they look. Romney said we should talk about income inequality in quiet rooms. He has the nerve to sit there in his magic underpants and tell me the reason we have all of this unemployment, street denizens and hunger in America is because of envy.

Fuck. Talk about abusing the the Bible and it's written word, this guy is dangerous.

[Whatitis]

It's hard to discuss this rationally when you are so defensive. You have the privilege of being able to afford a wedding, many people can't afford that...I can't, and I know a cheap wedding is at least 10,000. Even if you didn't pay yourself, the funds were available to you.
My point is you seem out of touch, you gloss over details...a woman wrote that piece you posted, not a guy. And if you'd bothered to investigate, it was a proposal from one person, with comments below it for and against. It was far from a definitive statement speaking for the whole movement.


WTF, digging at a guy getting married, really?! Maybe he can afford it, maybe he borrowed money to afford it. Who fucking cares?! Maybe you think he should give you some of his money to afford yours. BS! Who's really being defensive here? But that is the mentality of the occupy movement and it is really the downfall too.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

WTF, digging at a guy getting married, really?! Maybe he can afford it, maybe he borrowed money to afford it. Who fucking cares?! Maybe you think he should give you some of his money to afford yours. BS! Who's really being defensive here? But that is the mentality of the occupy movement and it is really the downfall too.

There you guys go again building up straw men to make your shakey, crazy, political points. I see you're defending marriage here. Maybe that's because you think marriage is sacred? So sacred in fact that it allows husbands to beat their wives to keep them in their proper place! That's right, you're promoting the beating of innocent women! I knew it! Does everyone see what these republicans are up to? They're trying to keep gay people from getting married because they want them to marry women, so that more women are beat!!!!! This vindicates everything I believe in! I knew I was right!

[Dorothy Wood]

defensive only to the extent that your comment was offensive

back on topic-that's why I said "I see your point" regarding this proposal. I see this was like a message board on the Occupy site for posters like us to debate and discuss. I'm just bringing the discussion back here after a month of being dormant. I am also willing to see both sides as commented by those for and against it and post my own comments as well.

seriously, Dorothy, leave me and my means to afford a wedding out of this. I shared the happy day in the Family Album, let's leave it there okay?

I read this piece today about applying leadership skills in the workplace used from the lessons of the Occupy movement and I thought it was an interesting read.



so many good points to take away from this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-dworkin/occupy-wall-street-leadership_b_1206290.html


I thought what I said was straightforward, I didn't mean it as an attack. and if you read it that way, you can see I'm not insulting you so much as listing facts. well, maybe it gets insulting in the end.

anyway, well, there you go, you found a positive development that wouldn't have happened without Occupy. I've been trying to say that the movement has awakened some people from the consumer spell we've been under for the last few decades. and you come in here like, "na na na na boo boo, they fucked up, ha! I told you guys it wouldn't work!"...then soon after find something positive about it to negate your argument!

I don't know what to make of this. I'm sure we both have the best of intentions and I'm sorry I keep getting angry and insulting you, seriously.





WTF, digging at a guy getting married, really?! Maybe he can afford it, maybe he borrowed money to afford it. Who fucking cares?! Maybe you think he should give you some of his money to afford yours. BS! Who's really being defensive here? But that is the mentality of the occupy movement and it is really the downfall too.

Bleh, I don't want a dumb wedding. My best friend is getting married in the fall, so we're getting into the shit now. I'm helping her plan it, my mom's gonna be there, we have like the exact same friends, so I figure I don't need a wedding really. Maybe when I'm like 40. My dude and I are committed, and he is a beautiful man...but I have no illusions regarding love, as my parents have been married 4 times each (which might influence my insensitivity toward the institution).

So, whatever man. You are so off on your perception of me. I would never demand that someone pay for something for me. If I did have a wedding, I would save for it, and maybe tap into some money my mom has secretly saved her whole life for it...but I would do the event as cheaply as possible. but really, I'd rather elope.


Anyway, I think that you have the wrong idea about the occupy movement. The people I know that are involved in it, or are more in favor of it than I might be, are very practical people who have their lives together. They and I are people who live within our means and do jobs in creative fields that don't pay so well, but have a place in our society. It used to be that people like us could survive and compete for quality and progress and have a nice life and be happy with what we have. But the costs keep rising, the pay stays relatively the same. My health insurance goes up about 10% every year, gas bill up 15%, electricity bill up 10%...pay, up 3%.

and yet the people who work for these companies that provide utilities are suffering with lower and lower pay...but the executives and investors are sitting pretty and they just can't understand what people are complaining about. It's unfair, it's ridiculous. it's fucked up!


jeez! get with it!

[Burnout18]

One GA discussion doesn't kill a movement.

Turchinator, now that I've seen your wedding photo, I can tell why you don't understand occupy. You're male, you're white, you have money, you're doing alright, so why would you understand? you don't really want to. you think things are fine because they're fine for you. but they're not fine for a lot ....

ohhhh fuck you. Seriously fuck you. Judging by race and judging a guy off of wedding photos. Jesus fucking christ. This is why people like me can't take the occupy movement seriously, because for every intelligent individual supporting occupy there's 10 idiots trying to exploit the idea of the MAAAAAAN holding everyone down.

I'm first generation American, student loans out my ass. Chances are I wont have a nice wedding, but I'll bust my ass if I have a daughter, cause she'll get what I cant have.... And if someone like you drops a cunty uneducated comment like that, they could go to hell.

Good work. You account accomplished nothing. Prejudice fuck.

[Dorothy Wood]

The man IS trying to hold everyone down. It's like a documented fact. I'm not complaining about my lot in life, I'm not jealous of people who have more money (though I will admit to jealousy of people with talents beyond my reach)...I basically want people to respect each other's roles in society, rather than quantifying the worth of a person in dollars only.

White men are in charge of everything, they are in no way oppressed. So calm down with the "cunty" shit. Jesus, you guys are touchy about marriage, yikes.

I don't know what you being first generation has to do with this topic. Are you saying you have to work harder to achieve the American dream because your parents are immigrants?

Why should you be saddled with so much debt?

It just doesn't make sense, generations before us have struggled to progress society and innovate to make life better. Well, we made it! This is a wealthy damn country and we can afford to educate everyone and keep our citizens healthy. That's what I'm for, because if we don't do that, we'll be paying room and board, plus medical for half our citizens, because they'll be in prison.

[Turchinator]

weirdos. all of yous.

Internet blackout against SOPA tomorrow, January 18th. I can get behind that. I'll quit internet for a day, it could do us all some good.

(y)

[Whatitis]

White men are in charge of everything, they are in no way oppressed. So calm down with the "cunty" shit. Jesus, you guys are touchy about marriage, yikes.

The only oppression going on is the limitations you put on yourself.

You are the one that brought marriage up. Never was marriage the topic, except for the spin you and Sir Scratch came up with.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

The only oppression going on is the limitations you put on yourself.

You are the one that brought marriage up. Never was marriage the topic, except for the spin you and Sir Scratch came up with.

I was just making fun of your post because you put up a straw man to knock down.

It's impossible to have a serious conversation with you guys because you're not grounded in reality. You're all living in the clouds.

You're an idiot if you think society will work based on handouts and simple wealth redistribution.

Likewise, you're an idiot if you think the only oppression going on is the limitations you put on yourself.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

ohhhh fuck you. Seriously fuck you. Judging by race and judging a guy off of wedding photos. Jesus fucking christ. This is why people like me can't take the occupy movement seriously, because for every intelligent individual supporting occupy there's 10 idiots trying to exploit the idea of the MAAAAAAN holding everyone down.

I'm first generation American, student loans out my ass. Chances are I wont have a nice wedding, but I'll bust my ass if I have a daughter, cause she'll get what I cant have.... And if someone like you drops a cunty uneducated comment like that, they could go to hell.

Good work. You account accomplished nothing. Prejudice fuck.

So it's not okay for her stereotype him, but it's okay for you to stereotype people in the occupy movement. Hmmmmm. Then you make sexist comments calling her comments "cunty".

I don't know dude.

[Burnout18]

The man IS trying to hold everyone down. It's like a documented fact.

White men are in charge of everything, they are in no way oppressed. So calm down with the "cunty" shit. Jesus, you guys are touchy about marriage, yikes.

.

Its not about the marriage aspect, it's cause all of sudden your opinion on him and his views has to change because he's white and he's got money (even though he disagrees, but who cares he's white so that's like a documented fact).

Let's ignore the race of the president or race of a certain bank in america during the financial crisis.... And let's roll with what your insinuating that white male men are on the same side somehow. Are you serious? Are you kidding me? you know we aren't, right? That's absurd to even joke like that or to minimalize someone's argument based on your thinking.

And the whole point of me talking about myself, is holy shit this may blow your mind, not every white male comes from old money or is on some secret running the world behind your back team. Not every white male is born well off. Not every white male is " out of touch" just disagree with occupy nothing.

This is the second time in this thread you've tried to bitch about what you consider well off white people.... Earlier with your fuckin dumpster diving stories.

[Burnout18]

So it's not okay for her stereotype him, but it's okay for you to stereotype people in the occupy movement. Hmmmmm. Then you make sexist comments calling her comments "cunty".

I don't know dude.

Theres really smart people and really dumb people in any public group. If that's your idea of stereotyping, then rethink your fuckin definition.

I don't consider cunty sexist either. I'll use it whenever anyone tries too hard to act like or steal Jon stewart's Sarcastic shtick. (he's great! Someone amateur hack online, not so much.)

For example, the hmmmmmm in your post is kind of cunty.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Theres really smart people and really dumb people in any public group. If that's your idea of stereotyping, then rethink your fuckin definition.

I don't consider cunty sexist either. I'll use it whenever anyone tries too hard to act like or steal Jon stewart's Sarcastic shtick. (he's great! Someone amateur hack online, not so much.)

For example, the hmmmmmm in your post is kind of cunty.

Do you use "niggery" like that too? Hmmmmmmmmm.

[Whatitis]

There you go submitting ideas that have nothing to do with the post, again. And YOU wanna call someone an idiot?!

[Burnout18]

Do you use "niggery" like that too? Hmmmmmmmmm.

Im disgusted by that word and people like yourself who use it, or variations of it. Shame on you....

Wow talk about stereotyping.... I'm a white male who opposes the occupy movement, so now you think I use the N word? Goddam your a prejudice fuck and hypocrite.

[Burnout18]

There you go submitting ideas that have nothing to do with the post, again. And YOU wanna call someone an idiot?!

Isn't it sad that some people's only move is to play the race card? Some people just aren't as intelligent as they think they are.

[Dorothy Wood]

The only oppression going on is the limitations you put on yourself.


sure, that's what people who are fortunate like to tell themselves so they don't have to worry about anyone else but themselves.

I'll go ahead and build a time machine to change the limitations I put on myself, maybe so I can go back and tell my step dad not molest my best friend, then kill himself in the middle of my senior year of high school, resulting in me staying home with my mom and going to a commuter school instead of pursuing the career track I'd already started...I actually interned before even graduating high school. and amidst all that, I graduated 2nd my class. Could've really done without that limit, maybe I woulda been valedictorian.

Or or, oh, how about I go back in time and tell my mom to use birth control, even though she'd been banging for years without protection because she was told she could never bear children. Until she did. and then my dad became abusive because he didn't want a kid, so I had/have night terrors and still suffer from subconscious anxiety issues to this day. Issues which have over the years been detrimental to my social skills, which leads to all kinds of shit like being bullied, being passed over in jobs for people who are more "friendly", etc. But you know, I did that to myself, right?

I might be complaining about my lot in life there...sure, but the truth is, after all that god damn suffering, I do whatever I want now and my life is pretty awesome. I have a job where I'm the boss, a cool place to live, awesome pets, super smart and cool friends, a loving boyfriend, happy family (finally), and I've been on t.v. like 5 times and performed at fucking Lincoln Center in NYC. I'm still "working class", but I made more money this past year than I ever have before.



You are the one that brought marriage up. Never was marriage the topic, except for the spin you and Sir Scratch came up with.

I didn't spin anything, I used the evidence of the dude being able to afford a wedding to say he's doing better than a lot of people. I could've said, "he can afford glasses and haircuts", and it would serve the same purpose. I'm saying it's difficult to see problems when your life is going fine, or even good...I mean, it looks like things are going good. which is not bad, it just affects a person's perception.

Its not about the marriage aspect, it's cause all of sudden your opinion on him and his views has to change because he's white and he's got money (even though he disagrees, but who cares he's white so that's like a documented fact).

Let's ignore the race of the president or race of a certain bank in america during the financial crisis.... And let's roll with what your insinuating that white male men are on the same side somehow. Are you serious? Are you kidding me? you know we aren't, right? That's absurd to even joke like that or to minimalize someone's argument based on your thinking.

And the whole point of me talking about myself, is holy shit this may blow your mind, not every white male comes from old money or is on some secret running the world behind your back team. Not every white male is born well off. Not every white male is " out of touch" just disagree with occupy nothing.

This is the second time in this thread you've tried to bitch about what you consider well off white people.... Earlier with your fuckin dumpster diving stories.

White men are at the top of the food chain, it is a fact. That's all I meant by mentioning his race. (And I'd been arguing with the dude already, my opinion didn't change at all). I'm white, for fuck's sake...well, a quarter spanish mexican with a dash of native american, but you can't tell because I'm pale-skinned. So yeah, I know that not all white people are rich, duh. I live in a city with 3 million people in it. Fact of the matter is, not all white people are rich, but the majority of rich people are white.

I don't have a problem with people who disagree with Occupy, I have a problem with people who disagree with Occupy as a knee-jerk reaction and then cover it with a "everything is fine, just work harder" line. Because, no, YOU need to work harder, to make sure that you're not getting brainwashed every day.

AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT DUMPSTER DIVING! ugh! stupid asshole bitches put their gross ass wasteful kitchen garbage in the dumpster we use for our business...because they are lazy fucks! there's been a noticeable increase in inconsideration over the years. fuck you man, you'd be pissed too.

Theres really smart people and really dumb people in any public group. If that's your idea of stereotyping, then rethink your fuckin definition.

I don't consider cunty sexist either. I'll use it whenever anyone tries too hard to act like or steal Jon stewart's Sarcastic shtick. (he's great! Someone amateur hack online, not so much.)

For example, the hmmmmmm in your post is kind of cunty.


You're the cunt, bro. you're the cunt. and you've been fucked so hard you're numb to reality.

[M|X|Y]

pancakes

[Dorothy Wood]

Haha, that last line was a little harsh, that's what happens when I drink a beer with dinner I guess!

Cunts! Dicks! Boobies!

[Burnout18]

Haha, that last line was a little harsh, that's what happens when I drink a beer with dinner I guess!

Cunts! Dicks! Boobies!

Ahhh We don't have a white man in the white house, very shortly those old prejudices are going to have to change. Seriously this sounds like hitler blaming certain white men who had all the money back depression era Germany.

ASSUMING that because someone's a white male with some money makes them part of the group that run's shit is a dumb thought. It's really prejudice. I'm not thhe president, I'm not connected to the CEO of goldman or bank of America or anyone in congress, SO fcuk you if you want to group me or turch with them. And that's what you did.

There was no knee jerk reaction to occupy. I think it was hypocritical the second they let russell Simmons and Michael Moore (two millionaires!) into their circles, I'm annoyed that I had to show my Id every two minutes downtown on the "day of action" (hahhaha) and I think throwing batteries at cops then crying when you get arrested is just a dull need for attention. And where would you put throwing a smoke bomb at the white house??? Is that the peaceful protest you want occupy known for? It's like terrorism for pussies?

[Sir SkratchaLot]

There you go submitting ideas that have nothing to do with the post, again. And YOU wanna call someone an idiot?!

The point I've been on here the whole time, which is supported by the evidence now (i.e. your posts), is that your opposition to the occupy movement, and really your opposition to the fundamental idea that there is an unfair division of wealth in the US, is based on political and cultural bias, rather than facts. You just missed the point because you were so busy with your own diatribe that you’re not looking at the flow of the conversation. You guys are happy to pigeonhole and stereotype others (apparently oblivious to the fact that you’re even doing it), but are ultra sensitive to being pigeonholed and stereotyped yourselves. You’re just not paying attention. I could say that, based upon my dialogue with the two/three/four of you, that people who oppose the occupy movement are a bunch of white, male, sexist, hypocrites, who refuse to admit that there are racial, cultural, and socioeconomic factors that fundamentally disadvantage certain segments of society because to do so might shed an unfavorable light on the validity of their own accomplishments, . . . but that would be painting with too broad a brush. THAT actually would be hypocritical. The reality is that there are two well reasoned sides to the coin, and there is even common ground. There are valid points to make on your side of the argument, you just haven’t made them because you've been too busy slinging mud. When you guys want to have an actual, meaningful discussion on these topics, come strapped with something grounded reality instead of these politically biased tag-lines you heard on the TV.

I agree that the fact that Burnout is happy to use sexist slurs, but is so sensitive to racist slurs that he can't even get over their use as an example, is completely beside the fact.

[Dorothy Wood]

Ahhh We don't have a white man in the white house, very shortly those old prejudices are going to have to change. Seriously this sounds like hitler blaming certain white men who had all the money back depression era Germany.

ASSUMING that because someone's a white male with some money makes them part of the group that run's shit is a dumb thought. It's really prejudice. I'm not thhe president, I'm not connected to the CEO of goldman or bank of America or anyone in congress, SO fcuk you if you want to group me or turch with them. And that's what you did.

There was no knee jerk reaction to occupy. I think it was hypocritical the second they let russell Simmons and Michael Moore (two millionaires!) into their circles, I'm annoyed that I had to show my Id every two minutes downtown on the "day of action" (hahhaha) and I think throwing batteries at cops then crying when you get arrested is just a dull need for attention. And where would you put throwing a smoke bomb at the white house??? Is that the peaceful protest you want occupy known for? It's like terrorism for pussies?

How am I prejudiced when all I'm doing is stating facts? We have a black president, but the majority of the rest of people in charge are white men, so I'm Hitler? wow, you're silly.

I wasn't lumping anybody with anybody. I used the visual evidence I had to support my opinion on Turch's position against Occupy, and to attack his attack because it was under-researched. and then, lo and behold, he actually found something positive that came out of Occupy!

I just think that you guys are getting outraged about ridiculous and trite things, when there are real actual problems that afflict our country. and the Occupy movement is trying to address those real actual problems. I don't always agree with their methods, but I think it's wrong to minimize the intention behind what they're doing.

All you're doing is cherry-picking the most negative aspects, and ignoring the good. Russell Simmons has been trying to help people for years, he's been an activist for over a decade...it would be odd if he didn't participate in Occupy. Same with Michael Moore, that dude lives to expose jerkiness. Sure, some of it is self-serving, but I tend to look at the whole. Money in itself is not evil, but pursuit of it above all else, is.

So, you were annoyed that you had to show your ID a few times. But the fact that corporations are plundering our resources and systematically taking away your rights by lobbying the government doesn't bother you?
that's messed up dude.


The point I've been on here the whole time, which is supported by the evidence now (i.e. your posts), is that your opposition to the occupy movement, and really your opposition to the fundamental idea that there is an unfair division of wealth in the US, is based on political and cultural bias, rather than facts. You just missed the point because you were so busy with your own diatribe that you’re not looking at the flow of the conversation. You guys are happy to pigeonhole and stereotype others (apparently oblivious to the fact that you’re even doing it), but are ultra sensitive to being pigeonholed and stereotyped yourselves. You’re just not paying attention. I could say that, based upon my dialogue with the two/three/four of you, that people who oppose the occupy movement are a bunch of white, male, sexist, hypocrites, who refuse to admit that there are racial, cultural, and socioeconomic factors that fundamentally disadvantage certain segments of society because to do so might shed an unfavorable light on the validity of their own accomplishments, . . . but that would be painting with too broad a brush. THAT actually would be hypocritical. The reality is that there are two well reasoned sides to the coin, and there is even common ground. There are valid points to make on your side of the argument, you just haven’t made them because you've been too busy slinging mud. When you guys want to have an actual, meaningful discussion on these topics, come strapped with something grounded reality instead of these politically biased tag-lines you heard on the TV.

I agree that the fact that Burnout is happy to use sexist slurs, but is so sensitive to racist slurs that he can't even get over their use as an example, is completely beside the fact.

YES (y)

[Burnout18]

I agree that the fact that Burnout is happy to use sexist slurs, but is so sensitive to racist slurs that he can't even get over their use as an example, is completely beside the fact.

Nice cheap shot! *You have no problem justifying your use of the most racist of slurs(comparing the two words actually shows how out of touch you are, my god open a history book) or ignoring someone throwing cunt right back at me (not complaining about it, THAT was actually funny, just pointing out how your a phony morality cop).

Maybe its not just the hypocrisy, maybe its that your just not smart enough to realize your lame accusation was what was irritable. But then again playing the unwarranted race card (while ignoring dorothy's white man comments, again you phony) is such a common, cheap overused tactic I should have ignored it. I got it, you tried to characterize me as a bigot so you could discredit whatever point I'm trying to make, but you failed. You just couldn't do it. Its why I jumped in the thread recently, using race and alleged economic status to try and discredit someone's opinion ("you don't get it") is just fuckin wrong. And you continue to do it! Unreal! Okay got it you think your smarter than us, even though what you did earlier in this thread shows us otherwise....

But dude you forgot to say hmmmmm. Come on, How are we gonna know how smart and witty you are without that???

[yeahwho]

Call it an abstract, call it an instigator, call it a relief valve along a convoluted piping system.


Here we're using the term Occupy Wall Street, a movement demanding change and transparency on hidden mechanization's of power and wealth.

If you don't like it or support it, fine (I'm speaking to no one in particular and everyone in general). If you believe it's a dead movement I could care less, I'm not going to try and convince anyone of the obvious trillions of $$$ just recently swindled from innocent people without any criminal proceedings whatsoever. That much cannot be denied. It's real.

Deal with it in any way you can. If condemning people for joining together and trying to have a discussion in your town is what makes you feel good, OK.

[Burnout18]

How am I prejudiced when all I'm doing is stating facts? We have a black president, but the majority of the rest of people in charge are white men, so I'm Hitler?


So, you were annoyed that you had to show your ID a few times. But the fact that corporations are plundering our resources and systematically taking away your rights by lobbying the government doesn't bother you?
that's messed up dude.


YES (y)

What are you even talking about now, rest of people in charge? His cabinet? Bank CEOs? The illuminati? Again I got it its the maaaaaaan holding us down, I dunno about that, Barack Obama amongst others shows us otherwise.

It doesn't matter if you meant to or didn't mean to lump someone in the overall controlling white group, cause you did. You uneloquently said what sir scratch weakly tried to say. Suggesting that white people who oppose occupy because we "don't get it" is prejudice and an insult to the conversation. I keep bringing that up, cause you did. Not me. You did. You formed an opinion of WEDDING photos. What the fuck.

And where the fuck do you come off putting words in my mouth with that "fact" Where the fuck do I go to bat for any massive corporation here? Ive tried to only talk about occupy's ineffectiveness and my opinion of the actual protests. But I'm glad you said that, cause just like sir scratch suggesting I drop the N bomb freely, some of you are so stuck arguing blue vs. Red and giving stock answers that you can't even step back and talk to an individual anymore.

Two different people supporting occupy tried to paint me in color that they assumed I was and well I'm not. Prejudices and personal biases. I understand it I try not live that way, but I feel bad for those who do.

[Burnout18]

It was intriguing at first, and like you yeahwho, my heart was with them. But it became very clear very quickly that this was a disorganized group protesting for the sake of protesting. There is no end victory for them for a group with no goals. Dude even the tea party had goals, objectives and managed to get congressmen and even a senator elected. I cant see any real change coming out of ows. Go home kids, its over.

I thought I said this on this site. Like I say above, my heart was with them at first..... But go ahead Dorothy keep assuming Im "not bothered" by anything corporations do. Keep doing it, it helps you paint the picture of the white males who don't agree with occupy.

Throwing smoke bombs at the white house.... Wow! Look at them go! Its a revolution MAAAAAAN

[yeahwho]

Two different people supporting occupy tried to paint me in color that they assumed I was and well I'm not. Prejudices and personal biases. I understand it I try not live that way, but I feel bad for those who do.

Hey you could call me the third person who supports Occupy Wall Street.

I think you're cool, carry on.

[Burnout18]

Hey you could call me the third person who supports Occupy Wall Street.

I think you're cool, carry on.

I enjoy your posts even when we disagree and even though your smarter than me you are never condescending. A lot of people, including myself, can learn from you.

[Fern]

wonder what happened to the money they raised .... :cool:

[Dorothy Wood]

What are you even talking about now, rest of people in charge? His cabinet? Bank CEOs? The illuminati? Again I got it its the maaaaaaan holding us down, I dunno about that, Barack Obama amongst others shows us otherwise.

It doesn't matter if you meant to or didn't mean to lump someone in the overall controlling white group, cause you did. You uneloquently said what sir scratch weakly tried to say. Suggesting that white people who oppose occupy because we "don't get it" is prejudice and an insult to the conversation. I keep bringing that up, cause you did. Not me. You did. You formed an opinion of WEDDING photos. What the fuck.

And where the fuck do you come off putting words in my mouth with that "fact" Where the fuck do I go to bat for any massive corporation here? Ive tried to only talk about occupy's ineffectiveness and my opinion of the actual protests. But I'm glad you said that, cause just like sir scratch suggesting I drop the N bomb freely, some of you are so stuck arguing blue vs. Red and giving stock answers that you can't even step back and talk to an individual anymore.

Two different people supporting occupy tried to paint me in color that they assumed I was and well I'm not. Prejudices and personal biases. I understand it I try not live that way, but I feel bad for those who do.

ugh, what are YOU talking about? I brought in the white thing because white guys can do whatever they want pretty much. and anyway, I was admittedly baiting Turchinator to see what he'd say, I wasn't even addressing you! or any other white person here. You're just so self-centered, everything revolves around you. I call one person white and you freak out! he's white! I'm white! Jesus, how hard is that to get that my only point was that he's not struggling in life?

here, here's a humorous take: http://youtu.be/TG4f9zR5yzY

white men aren't just in government, they're CEOs, they're executives, they're managers. White men get paid more on average, these are all facts. And besides that, if I had a dime for every time a white man talked down to me, I'd have over $30! :p

anyway, regarding Occupy, my problem with you is this: you're judging the effectiveness of something that you don't have enough experience with to judge. a movement that pretty much just got started. you can judge the methods, fine, but you don't have a right to go around acting like you know best...because honestly how can you process something so large if you can't even discuss it without freaking out over whatever word or phrase you found personally offensive. It's not all about you dude.

I just have a problem when people jump to conclusions is all. and I'm sorry if it seems like I have jumped to my own. I usually try not to make any conclusions until I have all the facts...which I don't, not yet. this basically all started because Turch was bragging about Occupy being dead and I thought it was a stupid thing to say, so I picked a fight. end of story.

[Turchinator]

lol. I love when Dorothy hijacks a thread, tells her life story full with Daddy issues and all, then proceeds to talk about her creative friends in their oh so important fields, then blabs on and on how she is misunderstood and that she has been on tv like 5 times, then tells someone else everything revolves around them. so you baited me, congrats.

If only Dotty's mom had saved her a secret wedding fund, kind of like exactly like how we paid for ours, fulfilling the wishes of the wife's ailing father.

have some dignity for crying out loud.

I don't have to tell my life story and how I'm a simple self sufficient guy who never racked up any debt (or inherited a single dime), product of public education and pell grants, and all the meaningful activism and awareness campaigns I have been part of and fought for. I have been able to live comfortably (in the two most expensive and populated cities in the country) by not overspending and by living within my means, not because of my race or ethnic background. THAT'S WHAT OCCUPY IS ABOUT, NO?

I'll admit I am lucky to work for a company that provides full health care coverage. I went without it for years and paid for it in the past, financially as well as health wise.

but they cover the blacks and latinos as well, and the company is run by women! in fact it's me and the other white guy, a gay dude who I hope someday gets to spend the rest of his life with the person he loves. you want my voting record as well? I voted No on Prop 8 but a bunch of assholes couldn't get it together.

but allow me to describe what type of employee I am-
I once fought for all the part-time employees to be paid for a "mandatory training" they were to attend on a weekend. the bosses didn't think they had to pay them, some of them had to take off work from their second jobs. I brought it up and they said "no"

so I called up the California Labor Board and had them send the law, in writing, to my office to prove that it was illegal to force them to a "mandatory unpaid training" and we retroactively paid them on their next check. there are over 40 employees that this affected.


wonder what happened to the money they raised .... :cool:

that was the number one reason I bumped this thread, was about the $$ raised by the movement. the Occupy movement is represented by a laughing stock of society that no one can take seriously until they rebrand themselves.

this isn't the first time we've had this discussion about corporations owning the entire government and controlling the country. yeah shit is fucked up, what are you going to about it at the local level?

I can't reconcile sitting around a room talking about how society is fucked up, having a meaningless voice in a General Assembly of fools, repeating to each other words in verbatim that an unassigned leader shouts at me.

Occupy Out

[yeahwho]

wonder what happened to the money they raised .... :cool:

hackey sacks

[Dorothy Wood]

Turchinator, congratulations on continuing to neglect details. Why don't you go ahead and google what "daddy issues" means before you throw it around?

I responded with details about my life to show that saying "nobody has limitations" is a naive and false statement. And I followed up with the good to say that it is possible to be happy and have a well-rounded and productive life, but that the unexpected can easily shut you down or put you on a path that you're not completely in control of. That people contribute to society in cultural ways and they shouldn't be marginalized because they didn't follow or couldn't follow the prescribed path to prosperity.

And my mom does have a secret wedding fund for me, because she's a saver...and if you were paying attention fully, you would notice that I said she did have one, not that I wished she did.

My friends' fields are important, and I'll leave it at that because obviously offering personal insight is somehow bragging...but you listing all your accomplishments after chiding me somehow isn't....:rolleyes:

[Dorothy Wood]

I'm gonna go ahead and nitpick this post for a minute, because I wrote the other stuff via phone and it doesn't let me quote.

lol. I love when Dorothy hijacks a thread, tells her life story full with Daddy issues and all, then proceeds to talk about her creative friends in their oh so important fields, then blabs on and on how she is misunderstood and that she has been on tv like 5 times, then tells someone else everything revolves around them. so you baited me, congrats.

I baited you with this: "You're male, you're white, you have money, you're doing alright, so why would you understand? you don't really want to. you think things are fine because they're fine for you. but they're not fine for a lot of people."

and your response has been to flip the fuck out. and now, to make light of me having an abusive father and a step dad who shot himself in the head? wow, I maintain my opinion that you're a whiny baby.



If only Dotty's mom had saved her a secret wedding fund, kind of like exactly like how we paid for ours, fulfilling the wishes of the wife's ailing father.

have some dignity for crying out loud.

You are really pissed that I mentioned your wedding, though I made no judgement on it other than to state that it happened, and therefore you are in the position to afford one...and that many people are not: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Distribution_of_Annual_Household_Income_in_the_Uni ted_States.png

I believe I'm right to assume that you are in a better position than the majority of Americans. You mentioned, in this thread, on black friday that you bought a car, and that you went to a furniture wholesaler (wholesale or not, I know how much furniture costs), you followed it with a shit-eating grin smilie, which I remember, because it made me want to slap you. http://bbs.beastieboys.com/showpost.php?p=1777817&postcount=151



I don't have to tell my life story and how I'm a simple self sufficient guy who never racked up any debt (or inherited a single dime), product of public education and pell grants, and all the meaningful activism and awareness campaigns I have been part of and fought for. I have been able to live comfortably (in the two most expensive and populated cities in the country) by not overspending and by living within my means, not because of my race or ethnic background. THAT'S WHAT OCCUPY IS ABOUT, NO?


No, that's not really what Occupy is about. It's about asking for banks to be accountable.

Also, You are in the minority if you never racked up debt.
-Total U.S. revolving debt (98 percent of which is made up of credit card debt): $793.1 billion, as of May 2011 (Source: Federal Reserve's G.19 report on consumer credit (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/g19/), July 2011)
-Total U.S. consumer debt: $2.43 trillion, as of May 2011 (Source: Federal Reserve's G.19 report on consumer credit, July 2011)
-Average credit card debt per household with credit card debt: $15,799* (http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-industry-facts-personal-debt-statistics-1276.php#footnote1)
Read more: http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-industry-facts-personal-debt-statistics-1276.php#ixzz1k3oHUXc7


and let me ask, did your activism solve the problems you were fighting against? are those problems over? do you consider yourself or the organizations you participated in to be failures if those problems were not permanently solved?





I'll admit I am lucky to work for a company that provides full health care coverage. I went without it for years and paid for it in the past, financially as well as health wise.

but they cover the blacks and latinos as well, and the company is run by women! in fact it's me and the other white guy, a gay dude who I hope someday gets to spend the rest of his life with the person he loves. you want my voting record as well? I voted No on Prop 8 but a bunch of assholes couldn't get it together.


good for you, brah. I never even thought or said you were a bigot though.


but allow me to describe what type of employee I am-
I once fought for all the part-time employees to be paid for a "mandatory training" they were to attend on a weekend. the bosses didn't think they had to pay them, some of them had to take off work from their second jobs. I brought it up and they said "no"

so I called up the California Labor Board and had them send the law, in writing, to my office to prove that it was illegal to force them to a "mandatory unpaid training" and we retroactively paid them on their next check. there are over 40 employees that this affected.

great!




that was the number one reason I bumped this thread, was about the $$ raised by the movement. the Occupy movement is represented by a laughing stock of society that no one can take seriously until they rebrand themselves.

okay, here we go. "a laughing stock of society", you say. I just don't agree, because the people I know that are active in the movement are upstanding and productive citizens. Professional people who work in education and art fields. So, I think you're just kind of a square or something? I don't know. You didn't even cite any facts about the "$$" you're talking about...so I can't even rebut.



this isn't the first time we've had this discussion about corporations owning the entire government and controlling the country. yeah shit is fucked up, what are you going to about it at the local level?

voting, boycotting companies I don't agree with, working with low income kids. oh yeah, and performing at fundraisers for women's health, literacy programs, for the family of a local activist after he passed away...and, for various causes that support local art and theater stuff. but I quit doing that because I have bad stage fright, and I want to find a way for me to be behind the scenes instead.


I can't reconcile sitting around a room talking about how society is fucked up, having a meaningless voice in a General Assembly of fools, repeating to each other words in verbatim that an unassigned leader shouts at me.


did you actually go to a GA? or are you just guessing? because I'm pretty sure they're outside. and they do the repeating thing (it's called a human microphone) so that everyone can hear what they're saying.

I'm not really into that aspect, reminds me of church too much. and I'm a loner, so crowds make me uncomfortable. but I'm not gonna sit on my wholesale chair in front of my wholesale desk and bitch about how dumb and gross they are because I can't get over myself.

[Burnout18]

ugh, what are YOU talking about? I brought in the white thing because white guys can do whatever they want pretty much.

And besides that, if I had a dime for every time a white man talked down to me, I'd have over $30! :p



What the fuck does that even mean? What the fuck do white guys get to do that other minorities or women cant do? Are you serious? This is 2012. In the highest forms of government, and business you have women and minorities. Rice, H.Clinton, palin, Obama, sotomayor, and with doing no research pepsico CEO nooyi pops into my head. What the fuck!?!?

And please don't fucking turn this into racism isn't dead thread, I fucking know that. Well shit there's racism in this thread.

And what the hell does being white have to do with someone talking down to you? What the fuck does that mean? Is that a bad joke? This comes off like someone felt empowered because they are white and a male and that's why they talked down to you. I'm calling bullshit. That's what YOU thought. Not said persons.

Stop with preconceived notions. About me, and about life in general. You are a slave to them.

[Dorothy Wood]

:rolleyes:

Do some research on income disparity and get back to me

[valvano]

too bad the Occupy idiots don't know how to behave like grateful guests..

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/god_awful_ows_mob_VqPjFDW0n234NhA9hxsxnL

[kaiser soze]

eh, it's tax free

[Dorothy Wood]

What the fuck does that even mean? What the fuck do white guys get to do that other minorities or women cant do? Are you serious? This is 2012. In the highest forms of government, and business you have women and minorities. Rice, H.Clinton, palin, Obama, sotomayor, and with doing no research pepsico CEO nooyi pops into my head. What the fuck!?!?

And please don't fucking turn this into racism isn't dead thread, I fucking know that. Well shit there's racism in this thread.

And what the hell does being white have to do with someone talking down to you? What the fuck does that mean? Is that a bad joke? This comes off like someone felt empowered because they are white and a male and that's why they talked down to you. I'm calling bullshit. That's what YOU thought. Not said persons.

Stop with preconceived notions. About me, and about life in general. You are a slave to them.


okay, beyond my flip response before, I will tell you that there are people who think they are better than other people. It's a real thing, and historically, white men have been in charge. Thereby, they feel they have authority, subconsciously at least. The highest posts in the country have always been held by white men, until now. So, the example for everyone here is that the main authorities of society are white men.

Sure, there are more and more examples of diversity, rules are changing, there is more freedom overall, but you have to remember that women are still marginalized all the time. Women's liberation stuff happened in the 70s, that wasn't that long ago. My aunt said that in college, in the early 70's, women were required to "dress" for dinner in the dining hall, skirts and dresses only, no pants.

Anyway, I deal with a lot of different people in my life. Mostly everyone is respectful, but time after time after time, the most disrespectful and inconsiderate people are white men. I've had men ask me if I need help with the power tools I use every day, "oh, let me do that for you". I get told to "be careful, do you want me to get that for you" every time I get on a damn ladder. I've been laughed at at Home Depot, when I showed a guy the list of wood I needed for some work tables and storage racks I was building for work...he was like, "oh boy, that's a lot, you sure you're going to be able to figure out how to put this together?" and I was like, "yeah, I designed it". I shoulda fucking punched him in the teeth.

let's see, how about recently when my store was very busy, and this guy was just so intent on being clever and contrary and "teasing" me about the price being too high, even though I provided a nice product for a very reasonable price and no extras. It was disrespectful, he was wasting my time and embarrassing his wife. Everyone but him felt awkward. He asked if there was anybody in charge that we could talk to above me to get the price a little lower. I said, "I'm the manager, that's the lowest price." He bought it, and something else too. But before he knew I was the manager, he was treating me like shit.

You wanna say that sexism and racism doesn't exist in 2012, or that it doesn't affect people, but it totally still does. It's just a fucking daily beat down of your self-esteem, and it affects a person. How could it not? To know that there are people out there who dislike you because of your gender or race, and that you'll sometimes be subjected to disrespect...or be limited in some way. Like, I can't go walking around by myself at night because of rapists, basically. I mean, the odds are slim, of course, but the threat is always there. A girl got raped a few weeks ago, less than a mile from my house. Mugging affects everyone, but hardly any dudes get raped on the streets at night.

Anyway, some of you guys are talking to me in a way you wouldn't talk to a guy. You want to dominate, you want to prove me wrong. But, I think I have more experience and knowledge than you guys in general practical terms, and that you should be open to learning more about what we're discussing...instead of picking fights with me over semantics.

[Dorothy Wood]

too bad the Occupy idiots don't know how to behave like grateful guests..

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/god_awful_ows_mob_VqPjFDW0n234NhA9hxsxnL

that sucks. once I was at a big dumb party in a church where people were like dancing on the alter and stuff, it was so awful. the priest didn't care though, as long as the company putting on the party paid the rental fee.



but anyway, yeah, makeshift shelter never really works for big groups. infrastructure is needed, I bet the doors were just unlocked and there were non-occupy people coming in and out all the time too.

[valvano]

but anyway, yeah, makeshift shelter never really works for big groups. infrastructure is needed, I bet the doors were just unlocked and there were non-occupy people coming in and out all the time too.

you know what else didn't work? your tax increase in Illinois

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19/topinka-illinois-unpaid-bill-crisis-just-keeps-getting-worse/

[Dorothy Wood]

you know what else didn't work? your tax increase in Illinois

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19/topinka-illinois-unpaid-bill-crisis-just-keeps-getting-worse/

Yeah, chicago's a mess, can't deny that

[valvano]

Yeah, chicago's a mess, can't deny that

would that be the same "Chicago mess" that produced our current President?

[Dorothy Wood]

would that be the same "Chicago mess" that produced our current President?

No, he wasn't born nor raised in Chicago, and when was here he navigated the system and ran against the old style local politicians who stay in office forever and do nothing. And, he didn't stay in Chicago doing a do-nothing job, he moved on.

He had no part in the scandalous behavior, other than endorsing our new tyrant mayor and alexi giannoulias for senator. But at least alexi lost, I was supporting the republican mark kirk because he had more experience and his ideas lined up more with mine.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

would that be the same "Chicago mess" that produced our current President?

Wait, aren't you from the same Virginia that enslaved black people! And did you guys read about the Virginian who one time raped someone somewhere? Let's hope you Virgininians don't get into office. It will be slave rape fest!

Seriously though don't any of you guys understand logic? What's with all the bad syllogistic reasoning? Is that you really don't get it, or is it that you do get it and you're being dishonest about the way you present information?