Never thought I'd grow to despise religion

[Dorothy Wood]

When I was a kid, it just seemed like one of those things that people were born doing. I very rarely went to church (only with a friend a couple of times), but my best friend's family was very Christian. I always thought it was weird that I wasn't allowed to listen to Madonna, but she was.

Anyway, I got baptized when I was 7 so I could go to a Lutheran school instead of the piss poor local public school. So I learned all about Jesus, and it seemed like he was a decent dude. Hardly anybody in that school called themselves Lutheran though, almost everybody was either just there because the public school district sucked, or they had vouchers and came in from Detroit.

So I figured, hey, people just choose whatever denomination they feel comfortable with, then they're just friends with everybody. And maybe when I got to be an adult religion would be more meaningful, and less boring to me.

so much for that! I literally hate religion now.


I never experienced the judgement, the elitism, the self-righteousness that is personified by contemporary "christians" until the last few years. And with the GOP polarizing the nation during this election cycle, my hatred grows. I don't want to be under Christian rule, and this isn't a Christian country like they say it is. I feel sick thinking about people sitting in churches nodding along to bullshit that allows them to practice hate they think is sanctioned by god. They truly do want a holy war, they think everyone should be Christian and married and "normal", and that it's their job to enforce that...and if people don't comply, they can go to hell. Literally.

I'm so disgusted, I don't know what to do. They're fascists, and there are millions of them.


(excuse the rant, I just found out some creepy faith healing type church is trying to buy out a local movie theater and I'm pissed because they have an awesome organ and really fun events and special screenings. http://www.avclub.com/chicago/articles/historic-portage-theater-could-face-conversion-int,70812/)

[kaiser soze]

Jesus would be pissed off at the current christian situation

so, you're not alone!

[MC Moot]

The moral majority is neither...

[Burnout18]

You date hate religion, you hate the people who use religion for their own gains. (GOP)

[mikizee]

I find it funny that a lot of jesus freaks are far right hardcore conservatives when in reality jesus (if he ever actually existed) was a filthy stinking liberal of the highest pedigree.

[Dorothy Wood]

You date hate religion, you hate the people who use religion for their own gains. (GOP)

Nah, I hate religion. I'm not saying I'm an atheist, but at this time, I believe that all religions are bullshit and detrimental to society and progress. Animals don't have religion and they've been here longer than humans.

[Turchinator]

I will pray for you tonight

[Bob]

not to be uncontroversial but i feel like this steven colbert quote is pretty spot on

“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”

i seriously wonder how newt gingrich thinks he's getting into heaven after all that adultery

[Bob]

and i don't wanna come off as biased so i'm gonna rail on progressive christianity too

how do you reconcile your belief that the bible is the unshakeable law of god with the belief that it's ok to be homosexual? i feel like if you take the bible as god's word, you have no choice in the matter; gays are an abomination and you have to kill them, it's quite strongly worded.

it's in the book, which gives you two choices:

1) you believe that the bible is the word of god and that it commands you to kill gays, and you kill every you gay you see, which makes you a murderous cunt (imo, but i'm not christian)

2) you decide that this seems wrong and that this part doesn't count, which means you're defying the commands of the bible, and then it opens the door to questions about whether or not any words of the bible count, and on what basis do you evaluate that?

basically what i'm saying is that god is dead and that if you're not stoning teenagers in iran for having emo haircuts, then you tacitly agree with me whether you acknowledge it or not

[TurdBerglar]

tell any strongly religious person that the bible as been changed many times by people of political power to suit their needs and watch their eyes twitch. it's not the word of god it's the word of empowered spoiled douchebags. tell them that their beleifs are totally spoiled. they totally deny it or can't comprehend it.

[Laserface]

...you believe that the bible is the word of god and that it commands you to kill gays, and you kill every you gay you see, which makes you a murderous cunt (imo, but i'm not christian)

i don't think the bible explicitly commands anyone to actually commit violence against homosexuals. i guess you're thinking about the leviticus passage "they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them", but it's a loose interpretation of an ambiguous phrase; but the grammar doesn't indicate any sort of commanding tone. it rather seems to suggest a prophecy, as in they're gonna go to hell.

my point is, i think you can be a genuine christian who necessarily must dissaprove of gays but still practice tolerance. i don't think those two things (tolerance and dissaproval) are mutually exclusive.

not to seem like an apologist though; lots of these people do in fact suck, but i think many left-wing liberals take a facile black-and-white view of the subject.

[Turchinator]

God is Love.


religious wackos are wacko.

[Dorothy Wood]

If Christianity was the way to salvation, how come so many fat selfish idiots are Christians? The kind of people who destroy their own bodies and minds with chemicals, pour money into Walmart for products made by child labor, vilify education, pollute the environment and then tell everybody it's their god given right to do so.


Fuck that!

Now, My mom loves Jesus, she is a good person and wants to live by christ's teachings. I keep my opinions to myself, but I wish she could know that she is good because she's nice and cares for other people, not because she believes in Jesus.

I don't mean to be offensive, I just feel very offended lately by religious freaks. And I'm sick of people saying this is a Christian nation. It scares me, repels me, makes me not want whatever heaven they're claiming to be headed towards.

[MC Moot]

Jesus built my hotrod...ding dang a dong bong bing bong...(y)

[Bob]

i don't think the bible explicitly commands anyone to actually commit violence against homosexuals. i guess you're thinking about the leviticus passage "they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them", but it's a loose interpretation of an ambiguous phrase; but the grammar doesn't indicate any sort of commanding tone. it rather seems to suggest a prophecy, as in they're gonna go to hell.

my point is, i think you can be a genuine christian who necessarily must dissaprove of gays but still practice tolerance. i don't think those two things (tolerance and dissaproval) are mutually exclusive.

not to seem like an apologist though; lots of these people do in fact suck, but i think many left-wing liberals take a facile black-and-white view of the subject.

even on that milder ground, then; how would a christian who approves of homosexuality (and i'm not sure i follow how that's a separate thing from tolerance in a way i find satisfying but for the purpose of this argument it doesn't matter), or perhaps even is one, reconcile their beliefs with their faith?

at a minimum the bible at least seems to say "it's not ok to be gay because god is going to punish you for that"...you would either have to believe it and live by it or not

and i'm focusing on the gay thing pretty hard, but you could pick any part of the bible that people don't generally follow anymore, like how you're not supposed to eat shellfish, or the thing about wearing clothing with two different kinds of fabric...how do you properly consider yourself faithful while ignoring the parts of the faith you find inconvenient?

i mean, i can see the appeal of turning to jesus and the lovey parts of the bible for your moral code, but if you're going to ignore the parts of the bible you don't like, then i feel like you're kind of quietly admitting that the bible isn't as big of a deal as you pretend it is, because there are parts that don't count anymore...so what significance does it really have once you strip away the "god wrote it and we have to follow everything or he'll be mad, he said so in the book" element? which imo is the biggest thing it has going for it, it's a pretty outdated book in terms of culture norms...so many role models have come and gone since jesus, there's so much more history to look to for guidance

[Burnout18]

Nah, I hate religion. I'm not saying I'm an atheist, but at this time, I believe that all religions are bullshit and detrimental to society and progress. Animals don't have religion and they've been here longer than humans.

I'd prefer if everyone kept their beliefs to themselves. No need to force what one believes on another.

[Turchinator]

this thread is toxic. I wouldn't call myself religious or even Christian for that matter. but the church I frequently attend as a visitor is completely welcoming to all people of all kinds and has an openly gay music minister, so I don't know what all the fuss is about.

[fonky pizza]

IN GOD WE TRUST ---> TOXIC

[Bob]

this thread is toxic. I wouldn't call myself religious or even Christian for that matter. but the church I frequently attend as a visitor is completely welcoming to all people of all kinds and has an openly gay music minister, so I don't know what all the fuss is about.

that's what i mean though--like that's really cool socially, from a community point of view, but churchwise, either the members of that church have to believe in their hearts that that music minister is hellbound unless they stop having homosexual relations (even if they never show it on the outside), or they're ignoring a part of the bible that they don't like...either way, i feel like something's gone wrong with their belief system

[cj hood]

you have to take the bible and the constitution with a grain of salt...both need to be revamped.

[Laserface]

even on that milder ground, then; how would a christian who approves of homosexuality (and i'm not sure i follow how that's a separate thing from tolerance in a way i find satisfying but for the purpose of this argument it doesn't matter), or perhaps even is one, reconcile their beliefs with their faith?

at a minimum the bible at least seems to say "it's not ok to be gay because god is going to punish you for that"...you would either have to believe it and live by it or not

and i'm focusing on the gay thing pretty hard, but you could pick any part of the bible that people don't generally follow anymore, like how you're not supposed to eat shellfish, or the thing about wearing clothing with two different kinds of fabric...how do you properly consider yourself faithful while ignoring the parts of the faith you find inconvenient?

i mean, i can see the appeal of turning to jesus and the lovey parts of the bible for your moral code, but if you're going to ignore the parts of the bible you don't like, then i feel like you're kind of quietly admitting that the bible isn't as big of a deal as you pretend it is, because there are parts that don't count anymore...so what significance does it really have once you strip away the "god wrote it and we have to follow everything or he'll be mad, he said so in the book" element? which imo is the biggest thing it has going for it, it's a pretty outdated book in terms of culture norms...so many role models have come and gone since jesus, there's so much more history to look to for guidance

by the mutual tolerance and dissaproval thing i meant that if you believe in chrisianity then yes, you have to believe homosexuals are sick and if they follow their way of life then they are gonna go to hell and too bad for them, but you practice tolerance by abstaining from any form of gay-bashing and still respecting and loving them for the human beings that they are; because i think a healthy sense of skepticism is still allowed - because it is after all just a belief, you could give some consideration for the thought that "well, maybe my belief is wrong and everyone should follow their natural inclinations after all; who knows? it's just what i believe."

but i totally get your point. especially stuff like the shellfish thing, who gets to choose what parts of the bible to follow and what parts to discard?

what i especially don't get it that most christians now disregard the creationist doctrine where all of the bible is to be read literally, because some stuff, like genesis, is quite clearly to be read as an allegory if anything (for fossil evidence alone), so my question is, at what point did people decide what parts are allegorical and what parts are historical? because someone had to decide that, and therein lies the problem - what makes these people so sure on how to read it? what basis do you have for choosing? God never made any of that explicit. so you're supposed to take some saint's word on it even though man is supposed to be fallable.

my cousin told me that it was a learned group of saints who got together to decide on how the bible is to be interpreted correctly, and these people "took their instructions from God" (this was after the birth of Christ, btw). but it's like... ok, i'm supposed to swallow that one now?

[MC Moot]

God is Love.


Love is Love...God is not a prerequisite...

[MC Moot]

this thread is toxic.

I don't know that I'd go that far...It's mostly just D.W on a rail of intolerance,ignorance and inexperience...which is funny as those are the quality's she dislikes most in her zealots...Religion is not unlike the weather in that your gonna be exposed to it,it can be both good or bad,even destructive,it's in a state of change,you best prepare for it and there is little you can do to control it unless your the Chinese...Religion has invaluable lessons of many different shapes,forms and faiths...Like Mao said opiate or poison,one and the same...

[MC Moot]

A Rabbi, an Imam, a Catholic priest and a Robot walk into a bar....

Only the robot exits...

[kaiser soze]

if Jesus returned today they would string him up again...

It's sad to see that people think total annihilation of humanity is the only calling card to bring him back.

We're fucked

[Turchinator]

so this is really about christians. which is funny because the really wacko ones are the ones that rail on muslims. and gays. that seems to be what this thread is about too. those are the ones I really can't tolerate. this thread doesn't seem to be about "religion".

Bob-I've never read the bible but I think you are focusing way too much on some obscure references in the Old Testament. but what you are saying is that christians are wrong in what they believe in because of that reference. I've heard it before when people rail on Muslims when others defend it as a religion of peace. they literally try to put words in others mouths and claim that the muslims are here to decapitate the infidels and if a muslim says he is about peace they are "bad muslims"

so to answer you, I don't agree what you say about those people in that congregation that you don't know. some of them are gay themselves, some of them have gay siblings and all of them are accepting in their hearts. they would go to somewhere else if they didn't feel that way. the main minister dude has talked about this kind of stuff openly in his sermons...

on the lines of what mikizee said, Jesus would have been chillin' with the gays and whores if he were still alive today. for me I just can't take the leap of faith and say yeah that dude was born to a virgin and died for me and rose to heaven and is my savior...


MC Moot, I never even said God exists. God, to me, is universal love- like the feeling when you look at your child for the first time or something along those lines...

[kaiser soze]

jesus would be smoking bowls and making tables

[MC Moot]

Jesus would be throwing tables over on Wall Street...

[JoLovesMCA]

I grew up in a strict Christian home and church was fun until I was older and able to realize how controlling organized religion can be. Not all of them but the majority are preaching the word the way they want to hear it and not the way God intended it. Jesus said we are sinners saved by grace. So if being homesexual is a sin, they are still saved and loved by God if they accept him as their saviour. So no Jesus isn't as uptight as MAN claims him to be. It's GOD who can't stand sin, so that's why he sent Jesus to the world. It least this is my belief now that I am older and figured a few things out. :cool:

[HAL 9000]

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Weinberg, bit of an over-simplification but still good.

God, to me, is universal love- like the feeling when you look at your child for the first time or something along those lines...

:rolleyes: that's just love dude

[HAL 9000]

So if being homesexual is a sin, they are still saved and loved by God if they accept him as their saviour.

That seems to be the sensible answer, it is strange that I so rarely hear it. Being gay may be a sin, but lets not forget that so is picking up sticks on a Sunday or eating shellfish or being born. The Jesus thing means you can be forgiven and not go to hell.

So no Jesus isn't as uptight as MAN claims him to be. It's GOD who can't stand sin, so that's why he sent Jesus to the world.

Spolier alert:


It turns out that God and Jesus are the same person

[MC Moot]

So no Jesus isn't as uptight as MAN claims him to be.

Tis’ true... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNamm7cvvc)(y)

[Kid Presentable]

I have an equal level of disregard for all religions - to me they are equally nonsensical and prey on weakness. But I know amazing people in these faiths, so it's tricky.

[fonky pizza]

MC Moot, I never even said God exists. God, to me, is universal love- like the feeling when you look at your child for the first time or something along those lines...

the power of life!(y)

[Turchinator]

:rolleyes: that's just love dude

isn't it great though? :)

God is a concept
By which we measure
Our pain
I'll say it again
God is a concept
By which we measure
Our pain

I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-Ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in yoga
I don't believe in kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me
Yoko and me
And that's reality

The dream is over
What can I say?
The dream is over
Yesterday
I was the dream weaver
But now I'm reborn
I was the Walrus
But now I'm John
And so dear friends
You just have to carry on
The dream is over

[Bob]

Bob-I've never read the bible but I think you are focusing way too much on some obscure references in the Old Testament. but what you are saying is that christians are wrong in what they believe in because of that reference. I've heard it before when people rail on Muslims when others defend it as a religion of peace. they literally try to put words in others mouths and claim that the muslims are here to decapitate the infidels and if a muslim says he is about peace they are "bad muslims"


so to answer you, I don't agree what you say about those people in that congregation that you don't know. some of them are gay themselves, some of them have gay siblings and all of them are accepting in their hearts. they would go to somewhere else if they didn't feel that way. the main minister dude has talked about this kind of stuff openly in his sermons...


no, you misunderstand me. i'm not saying the people in your church are bad people who secretly want to stone gays to death, i'm saying that the bible, if read literally, commands them to believe that gays are doing something wrong simply by being gay (doubly so if they eat shellfish) and if they don't believe that, then they're breaking the rules of the bible, and what significance does the bible really have when you can just kind of ignore the parts that don't jibe with the belief system you want to have?

i don't believe you can just brush it aside by saying "they're just some obscure references in the old testament"...that means they don't count anymore, that god just sort of forgot about them or wasn't serious about it? the entire bible is old and obscure, i don't think you can really dismiss the old testament on that ground, can you?


i fully believe you when you say that your church is cool and accepting and that gay people feel welcome there and that everyone in it, gay or not, is accepting and tolerant of each other, i'm not doubting that. i'm just saying that if you read it closely, the bible seems to think that the people in your church aren't doing christianity right, and that that's why i don't like the bible and think religion is silly

[Dorothy Wood]

this thread is toxic. I wouldn't call myself religious or even Christian for that matter. but the church I frequently attend as a visitor is completely welcoming to all people of all kinds and has an openly gay music minister, so I don't know what all the fuss is about.
See, anytime anybody says anything questioning or negative about religion, it's met with judgement. I'm not trying to tell people not to go to church, I'm trying to express my frustration and fears, and to commune with people who might feel similarly.

I don't know that I'd go that far...It's mostly just D.W on a rail of intolerance,ignorance and inexperience...which is funny as those are the quality's she dislikes most in her zealots...Religion is not unlike the weather in that your gonna be exposed to it,it can be both good or bad,even destructive,it's in a state of change,you best prepare for it and there is little you can do to control it unless your the Chinese...Religion has invaluable lessons of many different shapes,forms and faiths...Like Mao said opiate or poison,one and the same...

I'm certainly not ignorant about religion, I've studied it, read the bible, memorized scripture, attended church services, mostly all my friends were raised catholic (I go to midnight mass on Christmas eve with the one who still kinda believes). I recognize the major influence it's had on humankind with regard to organizing people, helping people find peace, inspiring art and architecture, alleviating fear of death, etc. I've stared at a cross, I've prayed, I've felt the spiritual power of the Christian God.

I'm actually in a church right now, listening to my mom's choir practice. And that's where the power is, in the human voice. The spirit is in man and it should be celebrated, but the power doesn't come from the words, it comes from the music.

I understand the power of collective thought, the power of ritual. But I don't believe, I can't believe in anything that now destroys more than it creates.

To me, art is God, science is God. The god I'm supposed to worship according to the majority of my fellow citizens is false in my opinion. And I believe that doubt exists in everyone because deep down they know it's impossible to be certain of anything at all.

[kaiser soze]

hippy!

ok, seriously - spirituality and religion are two different things nowadays. If churches didn't exist tax free there would be a shitload less of them.

how can anyone take the Catholic church seriously about homosexuality when they are trying to cover up their own sexual abuse messes.

I've given up on church, keep your religion to yourself and maybe this world will become a better place

[Turchinator]

and to commune with people who might feel similarly.


isn't that what people go to church for, fellowship?

it's funny, I'd given up on religion-never really had it or knew it, then I found a cool place that seems to care about social justice so I keep going. I keep my mouth shut when everyone chants the same thing and when a bible verse is read I try to connect something to something personal or figure out a Bob Marley lyric out of it.

but yeah- the Old Testament can be easily brushed aside as old news and not to be taken literally. usually they will do a bunch of lineage and tie it all in to Jesus somehow but I just don't think people take it as seriously as others might think.

so how 'bout them Jews?

[HAL 9000]

isn't it great though? :)



Sure love is great - but it is not God, it is love. If you say 'to me god is love', then you are misusing one of those nouns.

[Turchinator]

yeah, no. god is just a word, you can use it however you want.

me personally, I found God in a place that happened to be a church. if I didn't have that place in my life at a certain point in time, I wouldn't be where I am now. I'm sorry you don't like the semantics of it.

(y)

[mikizee]

Man creates god.
Says god creates man.
Man destroys man.
Blames god.

*retarded face*

[MC Moot]

I'm certainly not ignorant about religion, I've studied it, read the bible, memorized scripture, attended church services, mostly all my friends were raised catholic (I go to midnight mass on Christmas eve with the one who still kinda believes). I recognize the major influence it's had on humankind with regard to organizing people, helping people find peace, inspiring art and architecture, alleviating fear of death, etc. I've stared at a cross, I've prayed, I've felt the spiritual power of the Christian God.

I'm actually in a church right now, listening to my mom's choir practice. And that's where the power is, in the human voice. The spirit is in man and it should be celebrated, but the power doesn't come from the words, it comes from the music.

I understand the power of collective thought, the power of ritual. But I don't believe, I can't believe in anything that now destroys more than it creates.

To me, art is God, science is God. The god I'm supposed to worship according to the majority of my fellow citizens is false in my opinion. And I believe that doubt exists in everyone because deep down they know it's impossible to be certain of anything at all.

Very well spoken...(y)

[yeahwho]

I never go. Can't stand it, I feel less connected and out of place. I consider myself very spiritual and 100% beholden to a power higher than myself.

Religion dulls me. I can't sing, I can't sit still, I have weak social skills.

It's weird, I have an equal amount of church going friends as I do adamant non going church friends. I never really focused on the difference between them but this thread sort of made me think about it.

My mom is an atheist and one of the sweetest, kindest people on earth. My dad is a bible reading, bible quoting maniac and he drives people crazy with his judgement calls (they've been divorced since I was 7).

For me, I have a hard time disparaging anyones spirituality. If it helps with the struggles of life and accepting things we cannot change then great! It's judging others and not accepting a multitude of peaceful lifestyles that drives me crazy.

Bigotry is present in many of my "church going" friends. More so than those who do not attend church. What's up with that?

[Dorothy Wood]

^I hear ya on the social skills thing, I've always been terrified of the fellowship part of church. I hate small talk to begin with, but polite church small talk is the most painful kind for me. I was in church again tonight with my family for a concert and I felt like an alien. Luckily I got to sit next to my agnostic aunt, I think her general vibe just helped me feel more at ease.

Anyway, I think a lot of religious people are bigots because they're fearful, they crave structure and familiarity. And when theyre introduced to a foreign idea/look/person/sound, they think it's somehow evil. Instead of dealing with fear and getting past it, they do the equivalent of plugging their ears and going "lalalalalaICANTHEARYOUlalalala". And just never deal with it.

I've been having a hard time here in conservative Arizona, I feel my mom slipping into the void. I'm not able to be myself, I'm not allowed to say anything remotely negative about anything. I saw a dude in a sleeveless track suit with an impressive mullet and said "whoa, check out that dude!" and was scolded for judging. My mom repeats stories like I just met her, she doesn't listen to people speak, she just thinks about what she's going to say and starts talking before the other person is finished. I was telling my aunt and uncle a story about going to Europe in 1997, and she got angry with me because I said we were late for the plane because I read the ticket wrong and I was going so fast that I tripped over my bag and gashed my shin. She said that didn't happen, we weren't late. I said that we were, I remember because it was my fault and I still have a scar on my shin. She took that to mean I was ungrateful, that I was blaming her. Basically because one or a few negative things happened, the whole thing was a waste. I changed the subject.

She was never this bad before, I know she is depressed, going through menopause...but I blame the environment here for her intellectual stagnation, lack of curiosity. Lack of acceptance of things that interrupt her point of view. My mom is smart and complicated, religion teaches her to be simple and stop asking questions. Which makes me feel increasingly disconnected from her and I hate it so much. I want my mommy back

[yeahwho]

Anyway, I think a lot of religious people are bigots because they're fearful, they crave structure and familiarity. And when theyre introduced to a foreign idea/look/person/sound, they think it's somehow evil. Instead of dealing with fear and getting past it, they do the equivalent of plugging their ears and going "lalalalalaICANTHEARYOUlalalala". And just never deal with it.


Not everyone I know who is into religion bigoted, there are a few who are the kindest most generous people you will ever meet. It's just that some folks into religion I know have a real ugly view on race, relationships out of wedlock, of course gays and any religion that doesn't jive with theirs.

I went to a service a few years back which was held in a gymnasium like building. The minister would read a few verses from the bible, then simplify those verses to current American English then turn it into urban style street slang Then a rock band played a couple of songs.

I was so pissed off at the blatant patronizing and incredibly horrid band I left after 40 minutes into an hour and a half. Was like a joke or something. Awkward white people trying to be hip on Sunday. Downtown they have a half dozen churches with Gospel, real fire and brimstone. I will try those churches next.

[Dorothy Wood]

Oof, I hadn't heard of services with Christian rap. I guess it makes sense that rap would follow rock. When I was a teenager, my mom and I tried to go to a nondenominational service in a movie theater in a mall that was way way too contemporary casual. I couldn't handle the music and the kids my age scared the shit out of me because they were so friendly and just flitting around singing Christian pop songs before the service started. One girl was wearing a tshirt that said "dance naked", notated with the bible verse it came from and that really grossed me out. I was used to dressing up, being solemn at church...I really do like pageantry and old hymns. Anyway, it's like contemporary services get rid of all the best stuff and turn what's left into cheese.


I dunno, maybe because some of my ancestors were Jews, I inherited skepticism and my DNA still resents the Spanish inquisition!

[yeahwho]

Then of course at the churches I've been going to there is always this obligatory "I used to be a badass and then the lord saved me" type of talk happening around the services too.

I've been going to AA for quite awhile now, I've met enough badasses, recovered fuck ups, ex-cons, ex junkies, ex hobos, ex delaers, ex-whores and drunken driving assholes to last me 1000 lifetimes.

So I sort of feel like at church I'm just doubling down with a watered down version of AA. It's the same people I hang out with at AA, only they have a sanctimonious spin on their past and future due to doctrination of religious purpose.

The only truly normal people I hangout with are folks I know from work, who don't go to church.

[MC Moot]

I dunno, maybe because some of my ancestors were Jews, I inherited skepticism and my DNA still resents the Spanish inquisition!

Holy Toledo,D.W!...some people hold a grudge...;)

[yeahwho]

Saw this sad story about the Crystal Cathedral on CBS TV (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7402275n) a few days ago.

A common criticism of megachurches is that they draw members away from other churches, the majority of North American church-goers attend small churches of fewer than 200 members.

Religion sometimes resembles a commercialized product to me, like Coke or Pepsi. That aspect depresses me. Perhaps more humility and less ostentatiousness would make for a more spiritual experience. Attraction rather than promotion.

I wonder if you went to one of these Megachurches (http://hirr.hartsem.edu/cgi-bin/mega/db.pl?db=default&uid=default&view_records=1&ID=*&sb=3&so=descend) if they would help you out with food and gas money? Just criss-cross the USA looking for handouts and gleamy style religion.

I think I'm starting a script for my next project, MegaChurch Crashers.

[kaiser soze]

I heard some mega churches lease spots to commercial entities (Subway) within their confines. It's such a commercial brainwashing enterprise

The REAL Jesus would be appalled and probably would trash the places

I clicked on a couple of the megachurch links and stopped - don't want them cookies

[paul jones]

if it wasn't for religion there'd be no war and one of the funniest films ever 'Life Of Brian' which is better than the first reason but there's been some fucking good war films,like Full Metal Jacket

[Dorothy Wood]

if it wasn't for religion there'd be no war and one of the funniest films ever 'Life Of Brian' which is better than the first reason but there's been some fucking good war films,like Full Metal Jacket

well sure, everyone loves a war movie, but most of the good ones try to show the tragedy of it so we don't repeat mistakes. I need to watch Life of Brian though, never seen it.



It's odd, when I started this thread, I didn't think about the fact that I'd be going to 3 different churches soon after, in a very conservative area...like, majority elderly and white, very homogenous. People my age were scarce, and/or like I dunno...west coast-y, good charlotte-y. It gave me a lot to think about. I felt very out of place, and it actually solidified my disbelief. I felt bad about not believing while sitting in the middle of a bunch of people who believed pretty deeply, I truly don't want to be disrespectful. I really tried to listen and see if anything struck a chord with me, but nothing did. Everybody in the churches I went to seemed pretty nice though. My mom's pretty liberal, she wouldn't go to an asshole church.


Anyway, I started the thread because I was angry about possibly losing a historic theater to a nondenominational contemporary church who wanted to change zoning laws so they could buy it, but it will probably be saved. The church underestimated how dedicated film nerds are in this city. There's going to be a community meeting and there is overwhelming support in favor of the theater over the church. Also, holy moly, if you start googling the people behind the church, there are all kinds of complaints about the pastor's behavior when he was an associate pastor in Brooklyn. Complaints about his father-in-law too (the main pastor at the Brooklyn church). It would be a miracle if they were allowed to change the zoning. :p

[JoLovesMCA]

Tis’ true... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNamm7cvvc)(y)

The title is interesting! It says blocked in my country though..

[MC Moot]

I need to watch Life of Brian though, never seen it.

Oh yes,you need to remedy that a.s.a.p...(y)

[abbott]

I feel hate from being judged. Sometimes, the biggest wolf in sheep's clothing will cause problems for me and ignorant/stupid "Christians" will judge me and tell me how great the wolf in sheep's clothing is....

I think of the Pharaoh and what God did to his people. Remember that one? Let my people go, then God dropped the hammer. The Pharaoh had plenty of warning and ultimately his son was killed by God. Well, I think of that story and I think that the Pharaohs hart had hardened and he could no longer love. I never wanted to be like the Pharaoh ... religion or no religion.

I love to read the Bible and study it and I love talking to my kids about it. Ava asked me a few weeks ago if Jesus relay did all the miracles. I told her I could not tell her that, but that I thought the bible was a great learning tool. I was so happy to hear her question these things and not just believe for the sake of believing. I do believe in a God that created our universe and I do believe in prayer. I go out of my way to be part of group prayer. I am not sure if that falls under your definition of Religion though.

[fonky pizza]

I feel hate from being judged. Sometimes, the biggest wolf in sheep's clothing will cause problems for me and ignorant/stupid "Christians" will judge me and tell me how great the wolf in sheep's clothing is....
.(y)

I have an equal level of disregard for all religions - to me they are equally nonsensical and prey on weakness.(y)

[fonky pizza]

I hardly believe there is a God that would care about our little human life concerns, dedicated to watch on us, in this infinite universe.

Not very comforting I know...:rolleyes:

[Kid Presentable]

I think a certain level of disconnect is required for us to ever move forward from this stuff. Yes, I'm happy if an individual's beliefs don't hurt anyone else, and much as I'd expect from them I don't force my beliefs on others.

But I look at the course of human history and see that this one abstract construct has governed our (society's, I mean) lives for such an absurd amount of time, really for no good reason. And by governed our lives, I mean even now in a relatively enlightened age we still define ourselves in terms of religion. You're either fer it or agin it.

I don't quite know how to break that pattern, but I do know that holding onto relics and children's stories, antiquated ideals, doublespeak and subservience is not the way forward for humanity. And in that respect I do in a small way feel that people's beliefs in such a regard are hurting us as a species.

I mean, the planet is fucking ready to boil over and we still give religion the credence of debate. It belongs with archery, knitting and table tennis as a passtime. It's good that it gives people strength, but it's piss-poor that it convinces people that they didn't muster the strength within themselves.

For that reason I think even discussing it or defining oneself as on a particular side of the argument is pointless. But I suppose that's just ignoring it and hoping it will go away. Still, better than militant hatred.

EDIT: That's the only time I'll say that. I see people before I see faith, and I generally prefer to keep my opinion on this to myself.

[paul jones]

[QUOTE=Dorothy Wood;1782227] I need to watch Life of Brian though, never seen it.



I'm trying to think of that other film you aint seen that I told you you MUST watch.....erm.........can't think of it right now.............but FERCHRISTSAKE!!!!!!!!!!! see 'LIFE OF BRIAN'............NOW............fuck I'll even buy the thing for you!(y)

[fonky pizza]

I can't really believe there's nothing either, I like to have a non definitive opinion on that one, and prefer watching The Life of Brian:D

[abbott]

I like the life of Brian, but much prefer the holy grail.