Mortality/Religion/Afterlife

[DIGI]

I've noticed that over the past year or two, my views on the above-referenced topics have changed pretty drastically and I'm not necessarily sure why. Politics, maybe? I grew up in a very devout Roman Catholic household that always maintained liberal political views (HAHA!). A relative of mine is a former US Senator (who was later defeated by Rick Santorum) who walked with MLK and was almost Clinton's VP. I still go to church with my parents during holidays to appease them, but when I'm there, I can see the obvious political undertones of the sermon, etc.and just look around to observe the people that are buying the bullshit and it saddens me how intertwined religion and politics have become. I've done a bit of religious studies too. In college, it was a no brainer. There was a God because I wanted to see my grandparents and pets again. How anyone could think otherwise was totally morbid to me. But now, being 32, I'm more inclined to believe that when we go, it's lights out. There has to be finality, right? It has to end at some point. Do you really want to exist in one form or another forever? Think about it. Living forever. That just doesn't sound appealing, almost scary, to me and everything surrounding religion just seems highly questionable anymore. Having kids is another issue as well. My wife's religious and wants our kids to go to church. That's fine, I guess. They should have options available to them to be able to make their own decisions when the time comes I suppose. This is what I think about when I'm like walking my dogs or some shit.

[Heather_D]

I understand completely. Also brought up as Roman Catholic. Did the Catholic school thing for 9 years. It was in my Freshman year of catholic high school when I started developing my own opinions on the church & its political ness. My religion teacher was very very libral. He taught us that it was ok to question things, and to always know that if you did the right thing, god would always love you. It was at this time I was attending classes to get confirmed. I questioned something we were learning in those classes & they told my mother that I wasn't welcomed back. Basically, excommunicated for sharing an opinion that was different from theirs. For a very long time, I've questioned if a god exists. Even going so far as to visit the Vatican to see if maybe i could have a "moment." All i learned was how political things are.
Some days, I believe there is a force out there. Other times, I feel like, if there is a god, why's so much wrong in the world? I don't think about what happens after we're gone. I just kind of see it as sleep.

[Randetica]

i got rid of my catholic religion and not planning on joining another one
i still believe in god, jesus, life after death etc. but without the extra brainwashing

[Dorothy Wood]

Energy exists forever, it's just not always conscious.

I think people want to be able to predict the future and pretending like an old book tells the truth for all time is comforting. I don't need comfort, I used to...but now I'm not afraid of death. I'm only afraid of pain, and the loss of others. But I've already lost a lot in my life, so I'm not that scared.

The universe is a mystery, I don't doubt the existence of a higher power...but the current crop of "Christians" are worshiping a false deity. It's got to be...why else would all the followers be such asshole fascists?

[Heather_D]

But I've already lost a lot in my life, so I'm not that scared.

I totally understand that feeling. I'm not afraid because it sometimes feels like dying would be a lot easier than a lot of the stuff I have gone through. Sometimes, I feel like I've lived a billion life's & am just like, "is it time?". I haven't felt that way in awhile, but it is always in the back of my head.

And, Dorothy, I'm sure you weren't totally generalizing about religious followers all being assholes. There are some good people out there that understand the Catholic church are hypocrites. There is a group of nuns that was recently called "rogue" by the Vatican for sharing modern views on issues such as women's health. I think those nuns should run the church. They understand that change, compromise, and empathy are needed to get their word of god out.

[Pres Zount]

I was raised Catholic, but figured out it was bullshit pretty early on in my childhood. How anyone could believe in a god is beyond me.

[Kid Presentable]

I was raised with no religious views, and I have no religious views.

[Dorothy Wood]

And, Dorothy, I'm sure you weren't totally generalizing about religious followers all being assholes. There are some good people out there that understand the Catholic church are hypocrites. There is a group of nuns that was recently called "rogue" by the Vatican for sharing modern views on issues such as women's health. I think those nuns should run the church. They understand that change, compromise, and empathy are needed to get their word of god out.

I was mostly talking about born agains. I don't know any catholics who are still practicing catholicism, but their parents are and they're generally nice people. My mom is super christian, but the good kind.

I just think you can live a good life without having to do it for a God. And the idea that people can ask for help from God, or know what he wants and claim to interpret the "word" of God is just silly to me.

Like this dude who just walked a tight rope across Niagra Falls last night. He kept saying "thank you jesus, thank you father"...but it's like, sure, jesus is there making sure you don't mess up your stunt, but there's probably like 10 kids getting murdered right now that just must not be praying hard enough. :rolleyes:

[Heather_D]

Like this dude who just walked a tight rope across Niagra Falls last night. He kept saying "thank you jesus, thank you father"...but it's like, sure, jesus is there making sure you don't mess up your stunt, but there's probably like 10 kids getting murdered right now that just must not be praying hard enough. :rolleyes:

I missed that last night. That is the reason I questioned religion- if there's a higher power that loves & watches over everyone, why is there so much bad in the world? A lot of my friends have the belief that god wouldn't give you anything you couldn't handle. I think I used to buy that argument, but I don't anymore. No one, no thing, that truly loves me would put me through the stuff I've dealt with. And I feel that true for everyone because there are a lot of people much worse off than me.

I'm thinking of this quote that kind of sums things up for me: when I was young, I asked god for a bicycle. After I realized my prayer wouldn't be answered, I decided to steal one & ask for forgiveness.

[Bob]

Like this dude who just walked a tight rope across Niagra Falls last night. He kept saying "thank you jesus, thank you father"...but it's like, sure, jesus is there making sure you don't mess up your stunt, but there's probably like 10 kids getting murdered right now that just must not be praying hard enough. :rolleyes:

if i was god, i'd be like "nobody made you get on that rope dude, you're on your own, i'm busy trying to turn gay people straight"

[Helvete]

I was raised Catholic, but figured out it was bullshit pretty early on in my childhood. How anyone could believe in a god is beyond me.
I know, right? It's almost incomprehensible to me that a god really exists. I respect people who have religious beliefs but don't ever get into a religious argument with me if you do. You haven't got answers to the questions I have, and saying 'well that's god's plan' is not good enough!

[Bob]

I was raised with no religious views, and I have no religious views.

basically the same for me. a lot of my friends were catholic, and they always talked about going to church and stuff, so one time as a kid i asked my mom to take me and she was like "wait, really? ok, sure i guess". if yelp were around at the time, she probably would have yelped "lutheran churches" to figure out where to go, but we went to one and it was really boring and we never went again (except for weddings & funerals)

the main thing that keeps me from being religious is that i don't understand how a reasonable person could pick one faith and say "that's it, that's the one." when you look at the great pantheon of world relgions, the christians, the jews, the muslims, the buddhists, the hindus, the taoists, the confucians...

and even within each religion, the catholics and the lutherans, the sunnis and the shiites, the orthodox jews and the reformed jews, theravada and mahayana buddhists, and on and on and on

to look at the world and take in the staggering amount of beliefs that people follow, and then to pick one and say "this is the correct one that i'm going to live my life by", seems absurd to me, especially given the fact that when you sit down and read the rules that you have to follow to stay out of the various hells, you're probably going to slip and go there anyway, even if you did pick the right faith, which is statistically unlikely


so i don't see the point

[Bob]

true story though: my friend is an ordained something or other and is sanctioned to perform baptisms, so one time at a party we got drunk and he baptised me in a bowl in a kitchen sink.

so i'm safe if that turns out to be all you need. my godparents are jews though, i hope that's ok

[Homsar]

I was brought up in a Catholic home and went to Catholic school from kindergarten to twelfth grade. During my time in college, I grew really devout and I'm sure some remember that time here on the board. There were a couple times in my life where I almost joined a religious order.

However, I started to feel something wasn't right. I started reading and investigating the religion I so proudly gave my life to. I soon began to see the truths behind the religion and slowly, but surely, I became an Atheist. I do not tolerate people who accept things without evidence or without rigorous questioning.

Faith disgusts me.

Once we die, that is most likely it. A pointless world, a pointless life...

[Heather_D]

true story though: my friend is an ordained something or other and is sanctioned to perform baptisms, so one time at a party we got drunk and he baptised me in a bowl in a kitchen sink.

so i'm safe if that turns out to be all you need. my godparents are jews though, i hope that's ok

If your friend was drunk too, he or she is not Mormon or J/W. so, you don't have to have multiple wives & you don't have to worry about being only 1 in like 40,000 to get into heaven. You also don't have to worry about meeting your quota on door knocking.

Speaking of Mormons, how disgusting is it that they have baptized people into thier religion without permission of family members or the actual person? I'm talking people like Gahndi & Anne Frank.

[Kid Presentable]

Speaking of Mormons, how disgusting is it that they have baptized people into thier religion without permission of family members or the actual person? I'm talking people like Gahndi & Anne Frank.

Yeah baptisms for the dead. I find that hella fascinating, not at all disgusting. In fact, because we have no souls and simply become dirt or ash, they're not baptising anything anyway (and that's the case even with living subjects, too).

A friend of mine did a two year mission in the Phillipines, he's devout LDS. Baptised when he was 16. It's funny, it could have put a massive strain on our friendship as teenagers (and sometimes it did), but it wound up becoming the best lesson in tolerance and friendship I could have ever learned. I still consider him one of my best friends in the world.

[Heather_D]

I just think its disgusting because it shows a lack of respect for those people's beliefs. It's not as if people voluntarily chose to join the Mormon church. I know they're deceased and all, but still. Respect different beliefs & don't turn people living or dead into something they're not. And what's the point, anyway?

Good for you for learning tolerance of your friends beliefs. When I lived in South Carolina, I worked with a lot of J/Ws. Learned a lot about it that I didn't know. When i moved up to Pitt, I knew a co worker was J/W & a couple people at work got him a birthday cake & card. I just cringed. I was so embarrassed & felt like he was totally disrespected because of thier ignorance. I still view J/Ws as cult members, but if they have such strong convictions & don't push them on me or anyone else, I respect them.

[Kid Presentable]

I just think its disgusting because it shows a lack of respect for those people's beliefs. It's not as if people voluntarily chose to join the Mormon church. I know they're deceased and all, but still. Respect different beliefs & don't turn people living or dead into something they're not. And what's the point, anyway?


Well yeah, but the flip of it is they're really not doing anything at all, are they? Dead people aren't actually now Mormon because of the process, because there is no soul. It's just what that church thinks.

I always wanted to know if Hitler had been given a baptism for the dead.

[Heather_D]

Not sure if I understand your hitler comment, but I think he was baptized by the Mormon church. As I understand history, he wasn't given anything- just shot his dog & himself after his wife took cyanide. I don't think there was time. They were just burried in shallow graves in back of the bunker. I watch a lot of History Channel. That is the only reason I know this...

[Bob]

mormons were invented well after baptism was invented, weren't they? not sure what mormons have to do with my friend baptising me in a sink

jesus turned water into wine, why would he have bothered if mormon god forbade his followers to drink it?

[Heather_D]

mormons were invented well after baptism was invented, weren't they? not sure what mormons have to do with my friend baptising me in a sink

jesus turned water into wine, why would he have bothered if mormon god forbade his followers to drink it?

Mormons don't drink alcohol. Just meant that if your friend was drunk, you weren't baptized as a Mormon. And did Jesus- as described in the bible- really exist?

[Bob]

of course i wasn't baptized as a mormon, when did mormons get involved in this? i was baptized as a catholic or whatever the vanilla baptism religion is

[Kid Presentable]

Mormon church stuff is pretty moderate. They have outdated values, but the odd polygamist doesnt reflect the majority who are just all about clean and simple living. What they believe about other people doesnt have to effect other people.

[mikizee]

I don't think there is an organisation that has done more evil and harm to the human race than the Catholic Church. Right from the beginning of its inception.

Millions upon millions of people tortured, murdered, raped. Still going on today.

How can anyone in their right moral mind defend the Catholic church? If it was any other kind of organisation other than a bizarre cult it would have been shut down ages ago.

Fuck the Catholic church and its harmful, wacky, ridiculous, bizarre and bullshit beliefs and practices.

Jesus if he did exist would be grossly ashamed

[Heather_D]

I was kindda thinking about religion today. Is it possible to not believe in a god, but still believe in fate? Like, I used to always take huge risks (sometimes still do), & people wouldn't believe I would do such things. I'd always chalk any negative outcomes to fate. How about Karma? I believe that things come back to you, but still don't believe in a god. And I've been noticing a lot of Karmaric (is that a word?) things going on in my life lately.

[Randetica]

my sister thinks like that too and i tell her that fate is nothing but air and why should air care what happens to you? the one who cares is god is fate is god

[JoLovesMCA]

For me personally I can’t see not believing in something. I don’t care if it’s God or Buddha.. it just makes life more fullfilling for me... it works for me. I have some good friends who are atheists which is fine. I am not one to preach to people. I am really worried about myself anyway!. I am not as religious as I use to be and have explored different religion which is exciting.

I think most Mormon’s are good people but there is a part of it that I’ve heard that creeps me out. I guess the same can be said for Catholics and those fanatical Pentecosts who dance around with the snakes!

I believe in the afterlife for sure. I’ve seen enough and experienced enough personally to believe that.

[Heather_D]

Maybe I shouldn't have written about not believing in god. I don't know if it's karma or what, but I had a really good go for a couple weeks. Then, just all down hill- break up, mess ups at work, bad vacation, un returned texts/email, yada, yada, yada. Not too terribly bad, there's been worse. But the bad can stop anytime now...

[Dorothy Wood]

My mom's house recently sold after being on and off the market for 3 years weathering a down housing market. She told me she prayed the night before they got an offer, so like, "god is good" and "I'm a believer" and smiley face texts came on through the ol' iphoner.

I got pretty sad, I don't want to think of my mom as dumb. I wish she could be like, "yeah, all the hard work we put into making this house awesome paid off", and not like, "jesus did it! yay!"

I mean, I think she's both ways, just I don't know why she insists on injecting Christianity in everything nowadays, especially when she knows I'm agnostic. I guess she was just happy, and she's a humble person so she gave the credit to God.


Uchhh, I just don't believe. I can't, not when my heroes are scientists and people like Bill Hicks. There's no proof in religion. There is proof that the universe is totally awesome, that patterns and coincidences have power, that humans are capable of amazing things. Those who cling to religion are afraid to face the future, because it is unwritten. So they pretend it is so they don't have to get scared. I am embarrassed for them. I sound like a jerk maybe, but I kinda am and I'm fine with it.

[DIGI]

I've started blocking people on facebook that constantly ask for prayers for dumb shit or constantly quote the Bible. There's a dude I grew up with that only posts anti-Obama bullshit and Bible quotes. Go figure.

[Tam_Tam]

I love this conversation. I, for one, differ from most opinions in this thread. I was raised as a Christian, but was always encouraged to make my mind up as to what I choose to believe. I completely understand how someone would hold the opinion that someone who relies on religion may be viewed as delusional. Please know, I am not trying to preach to anyone. I can not stand when someone tries to force their beliefs on someone else. I just want to share mine. I have a HUGE problem with the hypocrisy in some of today's churches.

The beliefs I hold are that the main purpose for our existence is to share the love that God birthed through us. I don't honestly see a lot of that happening. It seems that some people are more apt to point out what is wrong instead of accepting people as they are. The Bible states specifically "Judge not that ye not be judged". Lots of people seem to miss that part.

I think that a vast majority of the things that "God allows to happen" are a direct result of decisions we make. I would never possess enough hubris to say that I believe I can explain God's ways, and actually I hope I never have that knowledge. Anyone who tells you they do is straight up lying. We had perfection once and hung Him on a cross.

What I do know is that I could not have made it through what my life has been without there being some force greater than I. There is just no way. If I had my way each time I wanted it, I would be dust. I would have been gone long ago. I really hope I haven't offended. I just hadn't seem much in a way of retort.

[Heather_D]

My mom's house recently sold after being on and off the market for 3 years weathering a down housing market. She told me she prayed the night before they got an offer, so like, "god is good" and "I'm a believer" and smiley face texts came on through the ol' iphoner. .

Did she bury a statue of some saint in the front yard? Apparently, if you bury a statue of a particular catholic saint, your house will sell.




The beliefs I hold are that the main purpose for our existence is to share the love that God birthed through us. I don't honestly see a lot of that happening. It seems that some people are more apt to point out what is wrong instead of accepting people as they are. The Bible states specifically "Judge not that ye not be judged". Lots of people seem to miss that part.


I really, really appreciate that you used a great statement from the Bible. People want to dissect it and make it say what's right & wrong, but they always forget "Love one another as I have loved you.". That should be the only line in the Bible. I totally respect you for having your beliefs & still read what everyone else has written. For me, some of my dislike/distrust of the catholic church comes from the abuse by so many priests. We were always told that you could always trust a priest. I know a lot of my friends growing up we're abused by priests. To just take the total trust of a truly innocent child & ruin them like that is beyond unacceptable. And cover it all up on top, dispicable.

[Kid Presentable]

Honest question: can someone explain what an afterlife and a higher power look like?

[yeahwho]

Honest question: can someone explain what an afterlife and a higher power look like?

Love that question ^ More of a certainty than visual thing, a guided feeling.

I'm in AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) and if you adhere to the simple steps that are suggested (*only suggested not required) the second step is;

Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity

I do not see a "being" or a "symbol" of any kind nor do I even bother to look. I have a blind faith that can only be backed up by a series of coincidences in my life that are so strong they cannot be explained. I work and hang out with people who are way above my social strata and I just don't question it.

Trust me I was dumber than a box of rocks the last few years I drank so what little borrowed time I have left, I'm keeping it simple, There is a God and it ain't me. I'm completely powerless over people, places and things.

(*it's also suggested if you jump out of an airplane you wear a parachute)

[Randetica]

For me personally I can’t see not believing in something. I don’t care if it’s God or Buddha.. it just makes life more fullfilling for me... it works for me.


I have a HUGE problem with the hypocrisy in some of today's churches.

= the reason why im a believer but not a part of any religion (anymore)

[Kid Presentable]

So a higher force can be the universe, right? In that: it created us and its existence dwarves our own?

[yeahwho]

So a higher force can be the universe, right? In that: it created us and its existence dwarves our own?

or as in my case it can be anything more complex than a box of rocks.

[roosta]

I was raised Catholic and hung onto it long after most people my age had abandoned it (into mid 20s) then it all kind of fell apart for me. I started discarding stuff that I didn't like until I had just liberal Jesus stuff, then I read Christopher Hitchen's "God Is Not Great",and whilst I'm not a new atheist religion basher, the chapter on how contrived the Bible is kind of sealed the deal for me. The one thing that ended it for me was this: How could an all powerful God allow a child to be born with AIDS. I could find no possible logic for a child who has done nothing yet, could be allowed start with a fatal disease.

Then I was non religious for a good while, whilst still being interested in religion. Then one day I saw Martin Scorcese's "Kundun" about the Dalai Lama, and decided to buy a book about Buddhism.

At the same time I was very into science and quantum physics and string theory and all that, and I was quite taken at how a lot of the Buddhist stuff gelled with that.

So, I took up meditation after reading about it in the Buddhist books and have been practicing it for 4 years or so now, all the while reading and studying Buddhism.

And last week I formally took refuge with in a temple with a lama. I'm literally a card-carrying Buddhist now (They gave me a card :) )

For me Buddhism is really practical, its about being happy and helping others. There some pretty crazy stuff too, but most of that is used to help you be happy and help others. Its a very personal, internal practice but one that can help others too.

[Freebasser]

Is it like being in the Masons? Does your card let you get away with speeding fines?

Do you at least get 10% off Matalan?

[roosta]

Is it like being in the Masons? Does your card let you get away with speeding fines?

Do you at least get 10% off Matalan?

hmmm...I might try. Both.

[Randetica]

How could an all powerful God allow a child to be born with AIDS. I could find no possible logic for a child who has done nothing yet, could be allowed start with a fatal disease.



maybe that little baby person knowingly spread aids around past life or did other bad things and that current life is there to learn a lesson

or that person choosed to have a difficult and/or short life

or satan won that time

or life is just unfair

[Heather_D]

I read Christopher Hitchen's "God Is Not Great",and whilst I'm not a new atheist religion basher, the chapter on how contrived the Bible is kind of sealed the deal for me. The one thing that ended it for me was this: How could an all powerful God allow a child to be born with AIDS. I could find no possible logic for a child who has done nothing yet, could be allowed start with a fatal disease.


And last week I formally took refuge with in a temple with a lama. I'm literally a card-carrying Buddhist now (They gave me a card :) )

For me Buddhism is really practical, its about being happy and helping others. There some pretty crazy stuff too, but most of that is used to help you be happy and help others. Its a very personal, internal practice but one that can help others too.

First, congrats on finding a religion that gels with what you believe. For the longest time, I've toyed with finding something, but just can't be bothered to do the actual practicing (other than all the obvious treat people equally, etc, etc).
Agree about the Bible. I've found that you can make the Bible say whatever you want. The people that don't believe homosexuality is normal can find passages that seem anti-homosexuality. Then there are passages that say you should beat your wife. Ummmm...OK....Clever, who ever wrote it, but people rely on it too much.

[HAL 9000]

IThe one thing that ended it for me was this: How could an all powerful God allow a child to be born with AIDS. I could find no possible logic for a child who has done nothing yet, could be allowed start with a fatal disease.



I can see how this is a problem for religions that teach that their God is loving and all powerful, but the 'problem of evil' never seemed to me to be a problem for the concept of a creator deity. I mean God could just be a dick, or not care, I never saw the logical progression from 'bad stuff happens' to 'there is no god'.

I realise you are using this in the context of your Catholic faith in which case it is more of a problem because that God is supposed to be loving as well.

Do you see Buddhism as just a way of life or do you subscribe to all its beliefs, i.e. karma, rebirth after death, various gods living in different plains of existance etc. I quite like the some bits of the philsophical stuff, but all the supernatural bits are a turn off for me (as they are in all religions).

[roosta]

Do you see Buddhism as just a way of life or do you subscribe to all its beliefs, i.e. karma, rebirth after death, various gods living in different plains of existance etc. I quite like the some bits of the philsophical stuff, but all the supernatural bits are a turn off for me (as they are in all religions).

It is a way of life in one way. The day to day stuff are practices and guidelines and viewpoints to help you in a real practical manner.
Also, stuff like karma I have found to be very misunderstood in the mainstream. When its explained in the Buddhist manner is quite a real and observable look at how things work.
I believe in rebirth to the degree I understand it, but I don't understand all of it, to be honest, but that's why you practice I guess.
A lot of the deity stuff is used as internal aspiration visualizations to help your own practice, so wether you believe in it literally or not is often not that important.