Are you still sleeping on UKHH?

[Lex Diamonds]

You shouldn't be because it's the best in the world at the moment.

Jazzy shit
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTPb-JvxxK4)

Lyrical shit
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4l36YrHw2w)

Street shit
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7Bs4yEsdM)

Introspective shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwhaCM8jDgY)

[Lex Diamonds]

Lyrical shit
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4l36YrHw2w)
Check the opening lyrics on this one:

Deep aquatic excavator, dishevelled entertainer

One thousand breeds of weasel wrestle on this escalator

Tree dwellers leaping out the boughs shouting “Get the paper”

Trunk hugging rebels chucking petals at a detonator

Man this shit’s second nature

My colossal monster, fed a rich mix of tar truth and bottled vodka

Off to clock the shrunken brains that punctuate the squalor yonder

[Helvete]

I just don't like their faces. Or their accents. Or their clothes, their drugs, their housing estates, their crimes or how tough they think they are. Or their rapping about any of the above. Some nice beats though.

[Guy Incognito]

You shouldn't be because it's the best in the world at the moment.

Jazzy shit
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTPb-JvxxK4) Nice beat not really arsed about the rap

Lyrical shit
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4l36YrHw2w) really good video, track's ok but looks a bit style over substance to me but i think its different enough and different is good

Street shit
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7Bs4yEsdM) Yes. this is really good

Introspective shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwhaCM8jDgY) bit meh if i am honest

.

[Freebasser]

I've listened to the first two. I do find the rudeboy accents a bit grating to be honest but lyrically that's some good shit and the beats are class.

Given time I will probably warm to them more. I like some of Skinnyman's stuff after all, and he sounds like he'd sell his grandmother for a bag of puff in a heartbeat.

[Lex Diamonds]

I've listened to the first two. I do find the rudeboy accents a bit grating to be honest but lyrically that's some good shit and the beats are class.

Given time I will probably warm to them more. I like some of Skinnyman's stuff after all, and he sounds like he'd sell his grandmother for a bag of puff in a heartbeat.
I wouldn't describe 3 Amigos or Jam Baxter as having "rudeboy accents", they just speak like they're from cities.

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiYKl4MrSgk) is a rudeboy accent. And it's fucking shit.

[Lex Diamonds]

I just don't like their faces. Or their accents. Or their clothes.
Sounds like you have some pretty gay criteria on which rappers you listen to.

[Lex Diamonds]

More Datkid (as part of Split Prophets, best crew in Bristol) (http://youtu.be/zJoyjl4e6Yg)

More Split Prophets (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSl_y1-t4ek)

[Helvete]

Sounds like you have some pretty gay criteria on which rappers you listen to.

I know you're being facetious, but I'll respond. Isn't hip-hop supposed to be about relating to the artist? Sharing experiences and saying 'yeah, that's my life too', well when you've got these 'wagwaaan blud', tracksuit wearing reprobates (as proven in at least the ankle tag wearing guy's case), how I can a relate to people that represent everything I dislike?

So don't think I critique music on their fashion and whether they have pretty faces, but it's the wider picture. These are the fuckers that make places like Luton a right shit hole, scummy housing estates where they'll stare you down if walking through 'their' area, so fuck them and their drugs, they clothes, their faces, their accents and their music.

Nahmean, blud?

[Lex Diamonds]

Sounds like you're a class fascist. Army's probably the best place for you in that case.

[pshabi]

2nd and 3rd tracks linked are nice to my ears. Still hard to for a "yank" like me to get into the accents and vibe of these UK artists. Just not something I'd care to listen to on the regular.

[Helvete]

Sounds like you're a class fascist. Army's probably the best place for you in that case.

Yes, I hate poor people.

[LilTreyR]

2nd and 3rd tracks linked are nice to my ears

(y):cool:

[Myu-to]

Sweet beats, and I like saying "pork pies".

[Randetica]

below my musical league

[Helvete]

Class fascist, join the army!

[TurdBerglar]

i don't understand this hoodrat culture defending/glorification bullshit. i didn't think it happened outside the US. these are the types of people that ruin neighborhoods/towns/cities. fucking leaches that refuse to break the cycle of shit and blame society/government for their own fuckups.

people that walk down the street talking about baby dadies and welfare at the top of their lungs with no shame as if it's suppose to be apart of normal everyday life because that's how they've been raised.

it has nothing to do with class those people are just dirtbags. stop defending them.

[Helvete]

No, having a tag around your ankle and doing drugs is cool, ya know?

[Lex Diamonds]

Sweet beats, and I like saying "pork pies".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wf9UxvHQe0

[Myu-to]

^LOL, VERY NICE!!!

I'm feeling this one.

[Lex Diamonds]

i don't understand this hoodrat culture defending/glorification bullshit. i didn't think it happened outside the US. these are the types of people that ruin neighborhoods/towns/cities. fucking leaches that refuse to break the cycle of shit and blame society/government for their own fuckups.

people that walk down the street talking about baby dadies and welfare at the top of their lungs with no shame as if it's suppose to be apart of normal everyday life because that's how they've been raised.

it has nothing to do with class those people are just dirtbags. stop defending them.
What the fuck are you babbling about? Since when did any of that shit have anything to do with the quality of the music? Did you even listen to the lyrics on these tracks? Contribute to the topic or fuck off.

No, having a tag around your ankle and doing drugs is cool, ya know?
No it's not, but making art about it can be. Good luck finding anything to listen to after you've filtered out 90% of musical artists with your weird lifestyle and morality requirements.

[Helvete]

Pull your panties up.

[TurdBerglar]

im babbling about the same shit helvete is babbling about...


im just agreeing with him


and im suppose to just focus on the lyrics and music? and that's it? then why are these guys putting so much effort into making sure the audience notices their shitty personas? obviously they feel it's an important aspect to their "art" so im naturaly gonna take notice.

some of these guys are obnoxious clowns. so what if they're technically good artists.

[Guy Incognito]

Err. fairly sure that the DAtkid tune was about him telling us how got into the situation then saying that he was going to make sure he stuck to the curfew in order to be rid of the tag asap and lead the life he wants to. And that he was grateful he didnt go to jail. I dont think he was glorifying anything.

[Helvete]

To go back to leading the life of crime unimpeded!

example:

You see truthfully the only thing I'm regretting is getting caught,
I'll probably do it all again without a second thought.
But next time I'll make sure I don't have to step in court,
And get left with a ringing phone box on my bedroom floor.
Yeah, F- the law, fuck the judges and the magistrate,
Fuck the prosecutors, fuck the journalists and the (something?!)
Blah blah blah, etc...

So, he doesn't regret it and doesn't seem repenting. He still dislikes the law and the system, the very thing which keeps people like him out of my life. He just wants to 'live his life' and to fuck anyone who tries to stop him. Just another one of the selfish scumbags who doesn't want to take part in a 'normal' society and blames everyone else for there actually being laws and enforcers of it.

So fuck him, fuck his life and his lyrics. He can fuck off and get sent to jail for being a scumbag and I have no sympathy for him.

[Lex Diamonds]

It's art you retard. Not everyone who listens to Sinatra hits women.

[Helvete]

That's not what I was implying, just giving legitimate reasons why I don't like a lot of these artists. I'll refer to more lyrics from Datkid on the song 'Drop of Poison':

Yeah, sometimes I don't live right, get drunk and hit guys,
Terrorise people wearing their jeans skintight.

So now he admits to being violent, getting in fights and targeting people for...yes, their clothes! Funny that. He is a class fascist, he'd probably have a go at me if I was walking through 'his ends' just because I'm not dressed like a right scumbag.

[Lex Diamonds]

So what? He'd still listen to your music. You're missing the point here...

[Myu-to]

Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

So I am not saying it's right or wrong here, but this isn't first time that I've heard a musician talk about things that I might not be down with, but overall I liked the songs. Hell, I even listened to other songs, and liked them too. The only problem that I have is that whilst their flows are soundly in the pocket, their head-blobbing to the music needs some work.

Thanks for sharing Padster, and expanding the musical world.

[TurdBerglar]

So what? He'd still listen to your music. You're missing the point here...

no. you're missing the point. people like this(or the character he may be portraying, because it could be all an act) should be absolutely ignored. they shouldn't be allowed to exist. the more attention and "respect" they and their fans get the more it justifies their shitty way of life. attention and being notice has a lot of value and power these days.


he's a common street thug and he's proud of it. fuck anything he does.

[Guy Incognito]

The crux of the DAtkid track was that he was going to abide by the tag and sort his life out at least thats what i thought, i took the bit helvete quoted as something he was mentally wrestling with and working out whats best to do before coming to the conclusion in the chorus. Plus, its all a character though right. There are a lot of characters in rap. Eminem hasnt done everything he's rapped about not to mention countless others. Its a story, semi autobiographical by sounds of it but its still a story.

[Lex Diamonds]

Well then, looks like Guy isn't a total numbskull after all. (y)

To be fair I do sometimes cringe/flinch at some of the shit like Helvete quoted, but then I think about what these people are actually saying, the lifestyle they are given and the scene that they are in and it pretty much all makes sense. Not to say that it's justifiable, but it's perfectly understandable to anyone capable of the least bit of empathy- if not relatable. I myself have experienced police harassment and the folly of our justice system firsthand.

That being said, I have debated with Dirty Dike on Facebook about whether blanket hatred of the police is acceptable. It obviously isn't.

[Lex Diamonds]

Thanks for sharing Padster, and expanding the musical world.
It's a genuine pleasure dude. Check this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR2VNtbX02Y) out.

[Guy Incognito]

Well then, looks like Guy isn't a total numbskull after all. (y)

To be fair I do sometimes cringe/flinch at some of the shit like Helvete quoted, but then I think about what these people are actually saying, the lifestyle they are given and the scene that they are in and it pretty much all makes sense. Not to say that it's justifiable, but it's perfectly understandable to anyone capable of the least bit of empathy- if not relatable.

Errr.. thanks i think.

helvete, i do understand why you would think that of Datkid i just think you sensationalised it a bit. If he'd just written a song about how he committed a crime but now he wasnt, it'd be a bit boring. .

[Myu-to]

LOL, beastie boys have a bunch of grumpy old people for fans.

It's not like they ever rapped about drugs, committing crimes, and wreckless behavior.:rolleyes:

[Lex Diamonds]

^ Precisely.

[Guy Incognito]

Indeed , plus, speaking as an older member of this board, i can remember a time when there was literally fuck all uk hip hop, at one point John Barnes was the best UK rapper. So its nice to have lots of uk hip hop acts

[checkyourprez]

It's a genuine pleasure dude. Check this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR2VNtbX02Y) out.

like i cant fux with that. sounds clownish. gave it a legit shot.

[Lex Diamonds]

If you can't fux with

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but two bongs make me feel alright
Sleep tight, eat shite, and keep my feelings out of sight
Speak like the deep type
Only way I know how"

or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTPb-JvxxK4) shit

"I let the snakes slither whilst I walk a higher plane
Stroll the desert terrain, my devil's hard to restrain"

there's something wrong with you.

[checkyourprez]

If you can't fux with

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but two bongs make me feel alright
Sleep tight, eat shite, and keep my feelings out of sight
Speak like the deep type
Only way I know how"

or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTPb-JvxxK4) shit

"I let the snakes slither whilst I walk a higher plane
Stroll the desert terrain, my devil's hard to restrain"

there's something wrong with you.


not if the person saying it sounds like a clown to me. equal parts what they sound like and what they are saying with me and rap.


big reason i dont fuck with canibus but do fuck with three six mafia.

[Lex Diamonds]

My condolences, man.

[Guy Incognito]

not if the person saying it sounds like a clown to me. equal parts what they sound like and what they are saying with me and rap.


big reason i dont fuck with canibus but do fuck with three six mafia.

i should really pay more attention to the rhymes but as i have said before its all about the beats for me. A track could be called "Guy Incognito is a massive dildo" but if its got nice drums and decent samples then i'll probably like it.

[checkyourprez]

i should really pay more attention to the rhymes but as i have said before its all about the beats for me. A track could be called "Guy Incognito is a massive dildo" but if its got nice drums and decent samples then i'll probably like it.

yeah thats how i am too. i respect good introspective lyrics and shit. but if i cant dig the sound of what im listening to, whats the point?

if all people care about is good introspective lyrics go read a good book you know. music is primarily a sound based narrative. hence, i must enjoy the sound i am hearing for it to be effective, to me at least.

[Guy Incognito]

but you said it was equal parts what they sound like and what they say. I'm confused now

[checkyourprez]

but you said it was equal parts what they sound like and what they say. I'm confused now


ya i lied the first time. well not lie, just misspoke. i dont put a whole lot of stock into lyrics. i respect and can really appreciate some lyrics. but i generally dont care about them in regards to the actual sound of what im hearing be it voice and beat/whatever other kind of music it is.

[Lex Diamonds]

You're both wrong, lyricism is equally as important as the music in hip-hop.

[checkyourprez]

You're both wrong, lyricism is equally as important as the music in hip-hop.


dont be a muppet.

this is a matter of opinion, its fine if thats your thing, its not mine. idc if asher roth had the dopest shit to say he still sounds like a penis and im not with that.


big L sounded dope and said dope shit over dope beats. total package, i appreciate the witty shit he said. but i dont need every rap song i hear to have dope lyrics to like it. but i do have to like what im actually hearing.

its different if you are reading a book, then its all text so how its written is important. that is the only medium being conveyed. but music has a totally different component to it, wither its hip hop or rock or anything else.

[TurdBerglar]

this is my problem with a lot of hip hop. it's become so unidimensional. it wasn't always like that. so much emphesis on the lyrics and delivery and everything else just takes a back seat. you lose all the emotive properties of the music. the emotion becomes only contained within the spoken word. to me that makes the music suffer as a whole. hip hop use to be so densely layered and dynamic. but im only exposed to commercial hip hop so i don't really have vast knowlege of the form.

maybe i just don't understand it. i can totally accept that, but when listening to people talk about how great the beat is im usually thinking to myself.... what the fuck, the music is increadibly simple. i find the backing tracks to most hip hop to be what one musician usually does within a band. a decent drummer could recreate the whole backing track note for note easily.

i understand exactly what cyp is talking about.


but then again all popular music has become very none dimensional and less dynamic. it's becoming more and more about the singularity of one person's thoughts and ideas thus making it much more simple. i think people relate to that because people are becoming more and more full of themselves and don't really get the whole is greater than the sum of its parts team aspect of great music.

[pshabi]

I'm with CYP. I definitely appreciate and have a love for intricate lyricism, storytelling, themes, etc. However, it's all about the beats and the cadence/flow/delivery of the MC to me. You can say some retarded shit, but if my head is nodding then it's all good. Conversely, you can be on some next level with your content but if your delivery isn't appealing to me then I can't get behind it.

When a track hits on all cylinders with content, delivery, and it's a banger....then you have a TRACK!

[Helvete]

I like techno, so I clearly don't only care about lyrics.

[Guy Incognito]

i dont think it has to be set that both are equally as important. I dont feel knowledgable enough about lyricism to do that anyway, even if i wanted to.

I think its fair to say that a good beat is more immediate to the ears than a good rhyme.

[Lex Diamonds]

dont be a muppet.

this is a matter of opinion, its fine if thats your thing, its not mine. idc if asher roth had the dopest shit to say he still sounds like a penis and im not with that.


big L sounded dope and said dope shit over dope beats. total package, i appreciate the witty shit he said. but i dont need every rap song i hear to have dope lyrics to like it. but i do have to like what im actually hearing.

its different if you are reading a book, then its all text so how its written is important. that is the only medium being conveyed. but music has a totally different component to it, wither its hip hop or rock or anything else.

this is my problem with a lot of hip hop. it's become so unidimensional. it wasn't always like that. so much emphesis on the lyrics and delivery and everything else just takes a back seat. you lose all the emotive properties of the music. the emotion becomes only contained within the spoken word. to me that makes the music suffer as a whole. hip hop use to be so densely layered and dynamic. but im only exposed to commercial hip hop so i don't really have vast knowlege of the form.

maybe i just don't understand it. i can totally accept that, but when listening to people talk about how great the beat is im usually thinking to myself.... what the fuck, the music is increadibly simple. i find the backing tracks to most hip hop to be what one musician usually does within a band. a decent drummer could recreate the whole backing track note for note easily.

i understand exactly what cyp is talking about.


but then again all popular music has become very none dimensional and less dynamic. it's becoming more and more about the singularity of one person's thoughts and ideas thus making it much more simple. i think people relate to that because people are becoming more and more full of themselves and don't really get the whole is greater than the sum of its parts team aspect of great music.

I'm with CYP. I definitely appreciate and have a love for intricate lyricism, storytelling, themes, etc. However, it's all about the beats and the cadence/flow/delivery of the MC to me. You can say some retarded shit, but if my head is nodding then it's all good. Conversely, you can be on some next level with your content but if your delivery isn't appealing to me then I can't get behind it.

When a track hits on all cylinders with content, delivery, and it's a banger....then you have a TRACK!
Most of you are overlooking many of the tenets of lyricism. In hip-hop, the voice is an instrument which is why cadence and flow are so highly valued. The best way to achieve sonic impact with your voice when rapping is with a strong rhyme at the end of each line (kind of goes without saying)- this doesn't neccesarily have anything to do with what you are saying in the track or the content of the lyrics.

That's cool if you just want to hear a hot beat with some dribbling record label manufactured drug dealer having a seizure over the top of it, but don't call yourself a hip-hop head.

[pshabi]

Not sure why you are quoting me when I said the same thing you are saying:


However, it's all about the beats and the cadence/flow/delivery of the MC to me.

[Lex Diamonds]

Yeah I was gonna acknowledge that but forgot. Also you said you agreed with CYP who is wrong about everything. But yes, you know what it is.

[Lex Diamonds]

this is a matter of opinion, its fine if thats your thing, its not mine. idc if asher roth had the dopest shit to say he still sounds like a penis and im not with that.
How much Roth have you heard? I wasn't feeling him at first but he has some dope shit which shone through for me. Like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuFB1LdxG4M) shit.

[Guy Incognito]

Most of you are overlooking many of the tenets of lyricism. In hip-hop, the voice is an instrument which is why cadence and flow are so highly valued. The best way to achieve sonic impact with your voice when rapping is with a strong rhyme at the end of each line (kind of goes without saying)- this doesn't neccesarily have anything to do with what you are saying in the track or the content of the lyrics.



well put and i do admire the skill, effort and sometimes bravery of what is said and why its said. I think its a fault of mine that i dont pay more attention. I just value beat making and sampling more than i do rhyming.

Pshabi's right when it all comes together its fantastic and achieves stuff no other genre can but i think patchy rhymes make less impact on the success of a track than patchy beats.
Christ, the beasties arent exactly amazing at the old "flow" all the time.

[Lex Diamonds]

Christ, the beasties arent exactly amazing at the old "flow" all the time.
Very true, but their cadence is unique and awesome, hence them being some of the best ever. I guess for me a great hip-hop track has to have three things: a good beat, strong lyricism and powerful delivery (unless of course it's instrumental hip-hop in which case we're talking different ballparks). Most good tracks can only manage 2 out of the 3, though.

[Randetica]

a song could have the best lyrics but if it has a boring beat then i wont listen to it, i appericate any lyrics that go deeper than bling bling hustle though

[checkyourprez]

How much Roth have you heard? I wasn't feeling him at first but he has some dope shit which shone through for me. Like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuFB1LdxG4M) shit.

i used roth as an example because i dont feel him. hes an eminem ripoff. like stole his flow and was arrested for it. like i dont care what hes saying im not feeling his shit.

same even with someone like talib kweli. i respect his skills as a rapper but i dont feel his "instrument" so i dont fuck with him like that.


and trust when i say im a head and then some. ive got all kinds of rap from all kinds of genres. legit thousands and thousands of songs.


but thats why people even rip on nas. most of his last bunch of albums have trash beats, so as good as his lyricism is it goes to waste. but obviously any hot beat nas is on its a going to be a banger.

switch over to kanye. not the best rapper, decent but not great. but a fucking dope producer, so almost everything hes putting out these days is fire because hes good enough over fire beats.

[Lex Diamonds]

I agree with most of what you said- remember I'm saying I think the two are of equal importance, not that vocals count for more- except that Kanye is one of the most unique, accessible emcee's of all time. He has that childlike, ignorant but sensitive delivery that nobody has quite got like that since Biz. His writing isn't technically good but he comes with the punchlines and double entendres and made-up Yeezyisms enough for it to be some entertaining shit.

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddbFb_fXboY) is one of my favourite Kanye verses. Also this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGdZqV7k0qM) is a good example of him doing a lot with nothing lyrically- if you can get past the Bieb (which is admittedly difficult, fuck it just skip to 1:40).

[Guy Incognito]

i think i've been getting mixed up with delivery and technical ability, and i'm still not sure what you mean by cadence.
can i have some examples of good technical ability?

I'm trying to think of my faves for what i value in rhyming.

This thread has made me think about my appreciation of vocals in hip hop.

someone like jay z to me has a great voice and great stories and imagery and just sounds natural but is any of that included in technical ability. Is it the ability to crow bar certain words into a beat or unusual rhymes?

[Lex Diamonds]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxrbxrGZphQ) (Em's verses, I mean, although I'm pretty sure he wrote Jay's too) is what I would describe as the strongest display of technical ability in a hip-hop track. He has 4 or 5 syllable rhyme patterns the whole way through, sometimes more, whilst making perfect grammatical sense and saying something both emotive and meaningful. Most emcees can do one or two of those things but not all and not often.

Cadence is the way someone uses their voice/accent to emphasise words. For example Leaf Dog and ODB have very similar cadence. The Beastie Boys are famed for theirs.

[Guy Incognito]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxrbxrGZphQ) (Em's verses, I mean, although I'm pretty sure he wrote Jay's too) is what I would describe as the strongest display of technical ability in a hip-hop track. He has 4 or 5 syllable rhyme patterns the whole way through, sometimes more, whilst making perfect grammatical sense and saying something both emotive and meaningful. Most emcees can do one or two of those things but not all and not often.

Cadence is the way someone uses their voice/accent to emphasise words. For example Leaf Dog and ODB have very similar cadence. The Beastie Boys are famed for theirs.

i like that renegade track.

I was getting cadence confused with delivery i think.

i get it a bit more now cheers. I always thought i was being picky when i heard a rapper say a sentence in a roundabout way. maybe not

is it fair to suggest that jay-z and eminem wrote that together?riffed off each other as opposed to eminem writing it all. Jay strikes me as having too much pride to rap other peoples rhymes.

I know Marshall is respected but i always thought that he was one of a kind and it was just totally natural as opposed to being a very technical craftsmen.

Plus it gives me more appreciation of why some are so well thought of as rappers. People i like just not mad about them. Like Biggie. When thinking about whats been said in this thread about ability , he definitely had it all.

[Lex Diamonds]

You'd be surprised how many top rappers use ghostwriters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTOCHnYsv4Q), man. Jay and Nas have both admitted to it. Em was at the height of his lyrical powers when this track was made and Jay is using a flow that's pretty unlike anything he had done prior; it's not too much of a stretch to think that Em wrote the whole song.

I think that being technically gifted IS a natural talent- sure people can study and practise writing multis but unless you have that spark you will never be able to make it mean shit or match even the simplest of Em songs- he is, or was, a fucking genius. And you're right: while Biggie was notorious (lol) for lack of content, he was pretty much perfect when it came to everything else. (y)

[Micodin]

is it fair to suggest that jay-z and eminem wrote that together?riffed off each other as opposed to eminem writing it all. Jay strikes me as having too much pride to rap other peoples rhymes.

Renegade was a Em and Royce song before their falling out. You can find the OG version on mixtapes and YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_O_-URLgIM).

They basically took out Royce's verses and replaced them with Jay's.

Em's verses for the most part stayed the same.

[Lex Diamonds]

Renegade was a Em and Royce song before their falling out. You can find the OG version on mixtapes and YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_O_-URLgIM).

They basically took out Royce's verses and replaced them with Jay's.

Em's verses for the most part stayed the same.
Forgot about this but it supports my theory.

[pshabi]

You'd be surprised how many top rappers use ghostwriters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTOCHnYsv4Q), man. Jay and Nas have both admitted to it. Em was at the height of his lyrical powers when this track was made and Jay is using a flow that's pretty unlike anything he had done prior; it's not too much of a stretch to think that Em wrote the whole song.

I think that being technically gifted IS a natural talent- sure people can study and practise writing multis but unless you have that spark you will never be able to make it mean shit or match even the simplest of Em songs- he is, or was, a fucking genius. And you're right: while Biggie was notorious (lol) for lack of content, he was pretty much perfect when it came to everything else. (y)

There were rumors that Jay Electronica and the cat from Dead Prez wrote for Nas on Nigger but they all denied it. There has never been an accusation Jay used one and he surely hasn't admitted to it. Not sure where you got that.

[Lex Diamonds]

Got it from the world... do your own research. Also, Stic never denied it outright.

Obviously they don't want you to know about it but it's no secret in the industry who has written for who.

[Micodin]

Forgot about this but it supports my theory.

As a Hip-Hop nerd and artist I respect your theory.

I'm not sure what went on with Nas's Nigger LP. But I do know for a fact that Jay-Z wrote the verses for Dr. Dre's Still D.R.E.

Everyone knows that Pusha T is now writing Kanye's raps.

Nas wrote for Diddy.

Ghostwriting is a part of the culture. Sigh.

The only shit I refuse to believe Lord Superb wrote Ghostface's Supreme Clientele. Mostly out of pride.

[Lex Diamonds]

The only shit I refuse to believe Lord Superb wrote Ghostface's Supreme Clientele. Mostly out of pride.
It's a plausible suggestion, but I really hope it's not true. Ghost would lose a lot of his status in my eyes... that said, he's a fucking boss either way.


ps
Check out some more sick lyrics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbtkpxkBqoU).

[Micodin]

It's a plausible suggestion, but I really hope it's not true. Ghost would lose a lot of his status in my eyes... that said, he's a fucking boss either way.


ps
Check out some more sick lyrics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbtkpxkBqoU).

Lyrics dope.

Beat is mad greasy.

My ish for a minute. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8DYSB61MWw)

[Lex Diamonds]

Lyrics dope.

Beat is mad greasy.

My ish for a minute. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8DYSB61MWw)
Nice shit, that's 3 of my favourite dudes at the moment. (y)

See what you think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4rG9Il6Nwk). These kids are only like 17 years old so their voice projection needs some work (they could do with a better sound engineer too), but the lyrics and beat are ill.

EDIT: OK not all of the lyrics are the best, but the chorus is sick

[Guy Incognito]

just remembered this from yonks ago

http://bbs.beastieboys.com/showthread.php?t=73870

[Micodin]

Nice shit, that's 3 of my favourite dudes at the moment. (y)

See what you think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4rG9Il6Nwk). These kids are only like 17 years old so their voice projection needs some work (they could do with a better sound engineer too), but the lyrics and beat are ill.

EDIT: OK not all of the lyrics are the best, but the chorus is sick

Not bad. I could hear a lot of promise in what could be helped with a proper mixdown and voice control. I dig it.

[pshabi]

Got it from the world... do your own research. Also, Stic never denied it outright.

Obviously they don't want you to know about it but it's no secret in the industry who has written for who.

Show me one link that suggests Jay had a gw.

[Kid Presentable]

Yeah I never, ever heard anybody say that about Renegade.

This is Em saying nothing really well (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxrbxrGZphQ)

I always liked lyrics from the earliest days of my listening to hip hop. Because I'm a word nerd and need to be able to rap along (if only under my breath). And to me there are a lot of intangibles about what makes some rhymes work versus what makes it a fail. Very mercurial sort of appreciation to try and formally capture.

[dave790]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5QYYDuTd8k

Chester P (2nd verse...1:21) murders it!

[Lex Diamonds]

Chess is a beast, a true poet. This is one of the best one take freestyles I've ever seen: psychedelic poetry shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQEG1Vit3qo).

[Sir SkratchaLot]

no. you're missing the point. people like this(or the character he may be portraying, because it could be all an act) should be absolutely ignored. they shouldn't be allowed to exist. the more attention and "respect" they and their fans get the more it justifies their shitty way of life. attention and being notice has a lot of value and power these days.


he's a common street thug and he's proud of it. fuck anything he does.

Yeah, there is that inauthenticity thing with hip hop. Lots and lots of cats play the role because they think it will either (a) earn them respect or (b) sell albums. But some people actually live rough and that's something you'd benefit to listen to.

It's funny to me to hear this converstation going on in 2012 though! When I lived in London for a few months in the mid 90s nobody gave a fuck about hip hop. I went over there and cleaned up on hip hop records. All the vendors were telling me I was stupid and it's about "jungle". LOL. But back in the states we were having this EXACT same debate. Snoop, Dre, Biggie, Tu Pac. Who's real and who's faking the funk? Now fast-forward 20 years and its almost flip flopped.

At least people are actually rapping in their own accents now! That shit is way doper than some guy from France trying to sound like he's from NYC.

[Helvete]

Just so you know, French hip-hop has almost always exclusively been in French, it's probably the biggest hip-hop market outside of the US. On the other hand, it was the Scandinavian and Dutch hip-hop that started out with the rapping in English and almost 'being American', it took quite a few years before the artists started rapping in their own languages and it become a bit more accepted in their countries.

You could say the same a bit about older UK hip-hop, but if it now means that I've got to put up with those accents, I'd rather have the more 'neutral' accents of old than the guys sounding like some of the examples in the thread. The problem I have with those accents, is that they are mostly put on too. It's not a regional thing, it's not an English thing, it's an image, generation and class thing. These guys think it's 'cool' and makes them sound tougher or whatever, but the funny thing is, their parents don't have these accents and only the people who subscribe to the image and lifestyle portrayed in these vids speak like this.

So yeah, know what I mean, blud. Saaaafe, innit!

[TurdBerglar]

But some people actually live rough and that's something you'd benefit to listen to.

what?

why?

[Sir SkratchaLot]

what?

why?

Because look at all the stupid shit that happens in this world because of misunderstanding. It's good to learn from other humans, understand how their lives are, and understand why they do what they do. There are white people that think all poor black people are criminals because they simply don't understand their life situations. People thought Public Enemy was "gangster" rap for christ's sake. KRS got a similar label. Gangstar too. That's just ignorance, because people don't listen to what's being said. If you knew how people lived in certain neighborhoods you would understand why they feel they have to be strapped with firearms, why they don't trust police, etc.

But yo, there's a difference between somebody who's actually put in a situation that you might have trouble understanding and somebody who's just acting like a street thug to be cool or get a record deal. Phoneys are wack, yes.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Just so you know, French hip-hop has almost always exclusively been in French, it's probably the biggest hip-hop market outside of the US. On the other hand, it was the Scandinavian and Dutch hip-hop that started out with the rapping in English and almost 'being American', it took quite a few years before the artists started rapping in their own languages and it become a bit more accepted in their countries.

You could say the same a bit about older UK hip-hop, but if it now means that I've got to put up with those accents, I'd rather have the more 'neutral' accents of old than the guys sounding like some of the examples in the thread. The problem I have with those accents, is that they are mostly put on too. It's not a regional thing, it's not an English thing, it's an image, generation and class thing. These guys think it's 'cool' and makes them sound tougher or whatever, but the funny thing is, their parents don't have these accents and only the people who subscribe to the image and lifestyle portrayed in these vids speak like this.

So yeah, know what I mean, blud. Saaaafe, innit!

Yeah, I know lots of french DJs from online. Some of these European cats take hip hop to heart more than guys from NYC. More contries ='s more original styles. Then there's the guys who go to the "American hip hop" store and those kids are just wannabes.

[TurdBerglar]

Because look at all the stupid shit that happens in this world because of misunderstanding. It's good to learn from other humans, understand how their lives are, and understand why they do what they do. There are white people that think all poor black people are criminals because they simply don't understand their life situations. People thought Public Enemy was "gangster" rap for christ's sake. KRS got a similar label. Gangstar too. That's just ignorance, because people don't listen to what's being said. If you knew how people lived in certain neighborhoods you would understand why they feel they have to be strapped with firearms, why they don't trust police, etc.

But yo, there's a difference between somebody who's actually put in a situation that you might have trouble understanding and somebody who's just acting like a street thug to be cool or get a record deal. Phoneys are wack, yes.

i grew up and live in one of those neighborhoods....

and those people are lazy assholes who are shit parents who raise shit kids. endless vicious cycle that they feel is just "their way of life" and that it should be accepted and tolerated. regardless of race. if they are not accepted and tolerated you're considered discriminatory. that's bullshit. everyone should be held to the same standards regardless of situation.

i don't need that way of life persented to me in the form of music. i've experienced it my whole life. your attitude is what helps condone their actions. fuck off. you're not helping them.

[Freebasser]

After repeated listens, that Jam Baxter track just wouldn't fuck off out of my head so I bought the album and bugger me if it isn't all kinds of amazing :O

[Sir SkratchaLot]

i grew up and live in one of those neighborhoods....

and those people are lazy assholes who are shit parents who raise shit kids. endless vicious cycle that they feel is just "their way of life" and that it should be accepted and tolerated. regardless of race. if they are not accepted and tolerated you're considered discriminatory. that's bullshit. everyone should be held to the same standards regardless of situation.

i don't need that way of life persented to me in the form of music. i've experienced it my whole life. your attitude is what helps condone their actions. fuck off. you're not helping them.

That's the spirit!

[Lex Diamonds]

After repeated listens, that Jam Baxter track just wouldn't fuck off out of my head so I bought the album and bugger me if it isn't all kinds of amazing :O
Good man! (y)

[Lex Diamonds]

i grew up and live in one of those neighborhoods....

and those people are lazy assholes who are shit parents who raise shit kids. endless vicious cycle that they feel is just "their way of life" and that it should be accepted and tolerated. regardless of race. if they are not accepted and tolerated you're considered discriminatory. that's bullshit. everyone should be held to the same standards regardless of situation.

i don't need that way of life persented to me in the form of music. i've experienced it my whole life. your attitude is what helps condone their actions. fuck off. you're not helping them.You're either socially retarded or grew up massively sheltered. Like, there's nothing else to say on this. You just don't seem to get that people live in different spectrums to yourself.

See my life is a strange mash of graff, beef, buds and bait yats. Don't waste facts. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R2D6mc01iI)

[Helvete]

Turd grew up in the hoods, the real hoods, not the Bristol hoods.

[Lex Diamonds]

You're even worse mate. How sheltered are you? Do you really think all of the UK is like Cambridge town centre or wherever the fuck you're from?

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Turd grew up in the hoods, the real hoods, not the Bristol hoods.

You mean like the Bronx? Hunt's Point? Or Englewood? Or East Oakland? Ever get shot at? Any friends murdered?

[Lex Diamonds]

^ Who gives a fuck about that shit?

There are areas and communities where the majority of people are born without access to proper education/decent parenting in cities throughout the world, and it usually leads to drugs, violence and all the rest of that shit. It's not unique to any one city or country. From Huddersfield to Honduras, believe that.

[Kid Presentable]

It's best when it leads to music.

[TurdBerglar]

those spectrums are created by the people that live within that area. shit people create shit neighborhoods/towns/cities. it just doesn't happen magically. it's usually no one esles fault. you have to hold people accountable. now if we're talking some third world war torn nation that's totally different. if you don't hold people to high standards they won't live up to them. simple as that. you shouldn't give people a free pass to be a fuck up because they're from a shit neighborhood or situation. you shouldn't feel sorry for them. feeling sorry for them does more harm than good. of course there's people in dire situations. most of these assholes are not in dire situations. they just come from shit familiies who don't know how to take care of themselves and their kids. they need to be held responsible. if you don't hold people responsible they won't feel the need strive to acheive anything.

[Helvete]

Hahahaha, Cambridge.

[Lex Diamonds]

It's best when it leads to music.
And other art, too. But yes. (y)