Zimmerman Trial

[Burnout18]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-trial-jury-defense/2511479/

I think the prosecution shit the bed here. As I said in the original thread, I think zim was an overzealous wanna be cop. He saw Martin, should have called the cops and Stayed in his truck. Both men live. Cops may question Martin but in the end, Martin goes home to his dad. Story over.

Instead The two met up, a fight ensued and as Martin was kicking zims ass, zim shot him. Were zims injuries really life threatening? I dunno, I guess when someone is on top of you beating your ass, are probably only thinking about getting him off of you.

Only zim knows what happened now, but I think the prosecution did a shitty job. I think he's going to walk even though I am not sure if he should.

[TimDoolan]

Too much doubt, should be freed but he won't. All women jury vs killer with domestic violence history...bye bye Zim.

[Bob]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-trial-jury-defense/2511479/

I think the prosecution shit the bed here. As I said in the original thread, I think zim was an overzealous wanna be cop. He saw Martin, should have called the cops and Stayed in his truck. Both men live. Cops may question Martin but in the end, Martin goes home to his dad. Story over.

Instead The two met up, a fight ensued and as Martin was kicking zims ass, zim shot him. Were zims injuries really life threatening? I dunno, I guess when someone is on top of you beating your ass, are probably only thinking about getting him off of you.

Only zim knows what happened now, but I think the prosecution did a shitty job. I think he's going to walk even though I am not sure if he should.

called it

[checkyourprez]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-trial-jury-defense/2511479/

I think the prosecution shit the bed here. As I said in the original thread, I think zim was an overzealous wanna be cop. He saw Martin, should have called the cops and Stayed in his truck. Both men live. Cops may question Martin but in the end, Martin goes home to his dad. Story over.

Instead The two met up, a fight ensued and as Martin was kicking zims ass, zim shot him. Were zims injuries really life threatening? I dunno, I guess when someone is on top of you beating your ass, are probably only thinking about getting him off of you.

Only zim knows what happened now, but I think the prosecution did a shitty job. I think he's going to walk even though I am not sure if he should.


This is EXACTLY how I feel to the tee.

(y)

It really is a shame because like you said it was a totally avoidable incident. I do think if it was a young white kid the situation would have happened differently because he enters the situation in a different mindset. I don't think he would have felt as threaten. Zimmerman just assumed because he was a hooded young black kid he was the one breaking into houses and by assuming Trayvons's guilt he was already hyper sensitive to the threat of the situation he was getting himself into and hence possibly needing to use his gun to defend himself (ironically from a situation he was creating for himself and as stated, could have easily been avoided).

He probably entered the confrontation aggressively and Trayvon, knowing hes innocent of any crimes and has no reason to being berated by some wanna be cop, takes offense and the altercation escalates from there.

[abbott]

I agree as well, prevention is the only real justice.

[Adam]

Sitting over in a foreign land; to most of us it just confirms American's as gun nuts with laws weighted to match the present day unsuitableness of the 2nd amendment.

I know there are ins and outs that none of us will ever know but few understand the culture that lead to this death, previous deaths and future deaths.

[JoLovesMCA]

I think it is possibly that Trayvon was racially profiled, but I don’t think prosecution had a strong enough case. You don’t mix the law with politics! Don’t they know that?

[checkyourprez]

I think it is possibly that Trayvon was racially profiled, but I don’t think prosecution had a strong enough case. You don’t mix the law with politics! Don’t they know that?


i think if you asked them off the record they would have told you they didn't think they could have won with the laws in place and the evidence they had.

but they really had no choice but to prosecute when faced with the public outrage and scrutiny had they chosen not to.

[JoLovesMCA]

i think if you asked them off the record they would have told you they didn't think they could have won with the laws in place and the evidence they had.

but they really had no choice but to prosecute when faced with the public outrage and scrutiny had they chosen not to.

Okay that makes sense to me. (y)

[ericg]

you can't say it's self defense when you're the one with the gun. didn't have to kill him. he's prob in hiding now.. for the rest of his life.. this whole sherade (sp) is stupid. society is encouraging racism with this bs national news..

[checkyourprez]

he certainly started the altercation, and no doubt was certainly more emboldened because he knew he had a firearm on him. however he didn't know Trayvon was an innocent unarmed kid.

once the confrontation had started and Trayvon in all likelyhood was beating his fat ass up a bit is when he probably busted out the pistol and shot him while underneath the kid fearing for his life. instead of just taking the ass beating that was coming his way for being a dickhead and accosting an innocent person and not listening to the dispatcher that told him to stay put and wait for the police.


I can think of no other logical explanation being a civilized human being.


could it have happened differently, possibly. i just honestly hope for zimmermans soul it did not.

[JoLovesMCA]

Well isn’t Zimmerman shit out of luck either way? The public is ready to hang the man. I think it was self defense, but I also think he should have just left the kid alone and none of it would have happened.

I agree with checkyourprez that Zimmerman was probably scared out of his damn mind and it’s the only reason why he shot Trayvon. So self defense yes….. but still sad and tragic a kid is dead.

I do think the media has lost their damn mind and people like Al Sharpton who is nothing but a race baiter is taking this somewhere very dangerous. Nobody rioted when OJ was set free. Yeah many people were upset and knew he did it, but the law said he was not guilty. MOVE ON!!!!

And the fact that we have all of these attorney’s coming out saying they are going to seek social justice. Who does that??? Everybody loved these six women before the trial and now they hate them because they didn’t get the verdict they wanted!

[Micodin]

Why did Zimmerman pursue Martin after the 911 operator told him not to get involved?

Why didn't he just let the police take care of it?

Would of Zimmerman pursued Martin if he didn't have a handgun on him?

Would of Zimmerman even bothered with Martin if he was white and wearing a polo and khakis?

I don't know. But, Zimmerman did have a handgun. He did pursue an unarmed black teen wearing a hoodie in a gated community. He ignored the 911 operators instructions. He killed an unarmed teen with a handgun.

Is he guilty of murder? I don't know. Is it justice that Zimmerman is alive and free while Trayvon is dead and his family mourns? Does Zimmerman now have a protective detail following him to keep him safe (that the taxpayers pay for)?

It makes me sick to my stomach. I think Zimmerman picked a fight and it turned out badly. He should of just let the authorities do their job and not get involved. Instead he used a handgun and killed a teenage boy.

Book deals and movie rights will eventually get the jurors and Zimmerman rich from this travesty. And privileged rich white Americans can sleep safe at night.

Sad really.

[Dorothy Wood]

The saddest part of the whole thing to me is that Trayvon is still being profiled after death. People think because a teenager participated in very common trends (gold teeth, slang, smoking weed, acting tough in pictures, etc.), he's some kind of thug who deserved judgment. Please, he was just a kid.

I've personally been apprehended by a security guard for something I didn't do and I fought back immediately. I didn't throw a punch, but I did spin out if the grip and start screaming. He brought me to the cops and so I screamed at them too. I feel like I fought even harder because I was innocent. I completely understand someone beating the shit out of a person who confronted them out of nowhere. Especially a teenage boy.

I don't know what kind of punishment Zimmerman should get, but he definitely shouldn't feel innocent or vindicated in any way because he fucked up bad. And people need to know that you can't just confront people like that and if you do you can't just fucking kill them because they defended themselves.

The whole thing is terrible.

[Micodin]

The saddest part of the whole thing to me is that Trayvon is still being profiled after death. People think because a teenager participated in very common trends (gold teeth, slang, smoking weed, acting tough in pictures, etc.), he's some kind of thug who deserved judgment. Please, he was just a kid.

Agreed!

[Lyman Zerga]

in a month no one will care anymore

[Adam]

^Apart from the victims family and anyone who knew him for the rest of their life.

And when the next death happens because of a stupid law it will be compared against.

[Burnout18]

It really seems unfair that Zimmerman initiated contact, made the dumb decisions but gets to walk away scot free.

[checkyourprez]

It really seems unfair that Zimmerman initiated contact, made the dumb decisions but gets to walk away scot free.

unfair.


but looking at the evidence, there really wasn't any other way to go about it.

[RobMoney$]

Did any of you actually watch the trial, or did you just get your deets from whatever liberal slanted gossip outlet you choose to pay attention to?

There is no evidence that Zimmerman initiated contact. None.
That's all speculation.
According to testimony, Zimmerman told the 911 operator that he was following Martin, the operator told him "We don't need you to do that". He wasn't told to stop following Martin. It was a suggestion. And that suggestion was for Zimmerman's safety, not the suspect Martin's.
But according to all the testimony and timeline of events, Zimmerman DID in fact stop following him and began returning to his vehicle to wait for police to arrive. That's when Zimmerman was approached by Martin. It's more probable and likely that Martin is the one who initiated confrontation with Zimmerman at this time for following him.

And since when are you justified in assaulting someone for following you?
Check the facts. That community recieved more than 400 calls to 911 in a 3 month span. That's something your liberally-slanted Trayvon supporting media won't report to you. It was a "gated community" but it was surrounded by neighborhoods that were rough and the criminals from the rough neighborhoods were coming in and robbing, stealing, and mugging people from the "gated community". Thus why a town watch was formed in the first place.
So Zimmerman stands up for his community by volunteering his time away from being with his own family to try to look out for his neighbors and neighborhood to become a member of the town watch.
That's something that he should be congratulated for. Not looked at as a "wanna be cop".

Also, "the poor kid" as some of you have described him as, was 6'-3" and had boasted via text message to his friend about beating up 30yo men. Those texts weren't allowed into evidence. Trayvon had a criminal record of assault. His mother had sent him to live with the father because he had become too much to handle. He had a discipline record at school of being suspended from the football team and from school for assualt. None of this was allowed into evidence as it was ruled it had nothing to do with this particular case. He was no angel as the media would like to have you believe.

Also, please tell me what kind of a 17yo thinks it's completely justified to assault someone for being followed? As the father of an 18 & 19yo. I would never imagine my kids even thinking of putting their hands on an adult who hadn't put their hands on them first.

The evidence showed andn the defense medical expert testified that Zimmerman had injuries to the back of the head that suggested his head was being slammed into the concrete multiple times. He stated "Concrete does not yeild, but a skull will". There was not a single injury or wound on Martin's body to suggest we was struck a single time. No defensive wounds at all. No scrapes or bruises, nothing.
The evidence showed that Martin was kneeling on top of Zimmerman using the MMA term "ground and pound" to Zimmerman. Pounding his head into the concrete.
I think it's reasonable to assume that Zimmerman was JUSTIFIED in fearing for his life in that position.
Also according to eye witness testimony, Martin was yelling "You gonna die tonight" while he was on top of him pounding his skull into the concrete.
It was only at this time that Zimmerman drew his weapon and used it to defend his life, as is his right. That's not a crime, it's called Responsible Gun Ownership. Textbook responsible gun ownership actually.

If Zimmemman had wanted to initiate contact, why would he have called 911 in the first place? Who starts a fight with someone when you know the cops are on the way? Doesn't make sense. And that's why Zimmeman was found Not Guilty and is free to go. In fact, he's even eligible to have his weapon returned to him.

[Micodin]

Did any of you actually watch the trial, or did you just get your deets from whatever liberal slanted gossip outlet you choose to pay attention to?

There is no evidence that Zimmerman initiated contact. None.
That's all speculation.
According to testimony, Zimmerman told the 911 operator that he was following Martin, the operator told him "We don't need you to do that". He wasn't told to stop following Martin. It was a suggestion. And that suggestion was for Zimmerman's safety, not the suspect Martin's.
But according to all the testimony and timeline of events, Zimmerman DID in fact stop following him and began returning to his vehicle to wait for police to arrive. That's when Zimmerman was approached by Martin. It's more probable and likely that Martin is the one who initiated confrontation with Zimmerman at this time for following him.

And since when are you justified in assaulting someone for following you?
Check the facts. That community recieved more than 400 calls to 911 in a 3 month span. That's something your liberally-slanted Trayvon supporting media won't report to you. It was a "gated community" but it was surrounded by neighborhoods that were rough and the criminals from the rough neighborhoods were coming in and robbing, stealing, and mugging people from the "gated community". Thus why a town watch was formed in the first place.
So Zimmerman stands up for his community by volunteering his time away from being with his own family to try to look out for his neighbors and neighborhood to become a member of the town watch.
That's something that he should be congratulated for. Not looked at as a "wanna be cop".

Also, "the poor kid" as some of you have described him as, was 6'-3" and had boasted via text message to his friend about beating up 30yo men. Those texts weren't allowed into evidence. Trayvon had a criminal record of assault. His mother had sent him to live with the father because he had become too much to handle. He had a discipline record at school of being suspended from the football team and from school for assualt. None of this was allowed into evidence as it was ruled it had nothing to do with this particular case. He was no angel as the media would like to have you believe.

Also, please tell me what kind of a 17yo thinks it's completely justified to assault someone for being followed? As the father of an 18 & 19yo. I would never imagine my kids even thinking of putting their hands on an adult who hadn't put their hands on them first.

The evidence showed andn the defense medical expert testified that Zimmerman had injuries to the back of the head that suggested his head was being slammed into the concrete multiple times. He stated "Concrete does not yeild, but a skull will". There was not a single injury or wound on Martin's body to suggest we was struck a single time. No defensive wounds at all. No scrapes or bruises, nothing.
The evidence showed that Martin was kneeling on top of Zimmerman using the MMA term "ground and pound" to Zimmerman. Pounding his head into the concrete.
I think it's reasonable to assume that Zimmerman was JUSTIFIED in fearing for his life in that position.
Also according to eye witness testimony, Martin was yelling "You gonna die tonight" while he was on top of him pounding his skull into the concrete.
It was only at this time that Zimmerman drew his weapon and used it to defend his life, as is his right. That's not a crime, it's called Responsible Gun Ownership. Textbook responsible gun ownership actually.

If Zimmemman had wanted to initiate contact, why would he have called 911 in the first place? Who starts a fight with someone when you know the cops are on the way? Doesn't make sense. And that's why Zimmeman was found Not Guilty and is free to go. In fact, he's even eligible to have his weapon returned to him.

These ramblings were brought to you by the cowardly extreme right from Fox News, your voice of evil. Up next, Sarah Palin with an ugly racist rant.

[Helvete]

The right decision was made, that's all I've got to say.

[RobMoney$]

You want to see racism?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-shot-death-woman-texas-gas-station-article-1.1405965

Interesting how the media is presenting THIS as completely justifiable. Her head wasn't even being repeatedly beaten into the concrete ground yet she reasonably feared for her life.
INTERESTING!!!!!!

Let's just call it like it is. Because this is a black person shooting another black person.
THAT'S RACISM.


No charges are even going to charged against her and she took a picture of him after she shot him and left the scene without calling an ambulance or police.

I'd love to hear your opinion on this Micodin.

[RobMoney$]

A MUST watch...

http://www.economicnoise.com/2013/07/23/bill-whittle-opines-on-trayvon-martin/

[YoungRemy]

I'll chime in.

how is that even comparable, or better yet how is THAT RACISM?

liberal slanted NY Daily News just reported on a Houston woman who was brought in for questioning after surveillance video shows a man lunging at her and she shot him. (edit- he totally swung at her in the video)

she told police he had a knife on him.

a knife was found on the dead man on the scene.

the hypothetical reverse double racism card cannot be played at this juncture

[RobMoney$]

Where's the over aggressive pursuit to bring charges by Eric Holder?
Where's the outrage by the black community to bring charges even though a crime was not committed?
Where's the rush to guilt the media reported the zimmerman story with?

Tell me what the difference is between this and the Zimmerman incident other than the race and sex of the person pulling the trigger?

[YoungRemy]

the incident happened TWO days ago. how do you know no charges are going to be brought against her?

they are investigating whether they knew each other and what led to the incident. they at least have video surveillance of the shooting, so there's the biggest glaring difference right there.

he swung at her. he was armed with a knife. he allegedly made sexual references at her.

A MUST watch...

oh my god that video was painful to watch!

how can you call out media bias and liberal slant when a smug arrogant far right leaning douchebag just made the supposition that Martin was buying his candy and Arizona fruit drink for a concoction of lean?

THAT'S RACISM



the lynching?


really?

[Dorothy Wood]

That gas station incident is MUCH different than the Zimmerman case. I mean really? Really?

People die from hitting their heads on concrete just falling down. If Zimmerman was getting his head "pounded" into the pavement, he'd have more than just a few scratches. The hospital sent him home, no stitches, no nose splint.

Man Rob, you're so weird and such an alarmist. I don't think Zimmerman meant to kill Martin, so I don't think he's a murderer, but I do think he's a reckless idiot who doesn't need defending by reactionist armchair lawyers like you.

Anyway a lot of injustices happen every day, I am perplexed that this incident went national and I'm pretty sick of hearing about it so I don't even know why I'm even participating in this argument. Ugh.

[RobMoney$]

People die from hitting their heads on concrete just falling down. If Zimmerman was getting his head "pounded" into the pavement, he'd have more than just a few scratches. The hospital sent him home, no stitches, no nose splint

Dorothy, are you trying to imply that Zimmerman wasn't having his head pounded into the ground? Seriously?
Here's the photos taken at the crime scene:

No nose splint? Then I say that hospitals level of medical care is suspect. LOOK at his nose.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/RobMoney004/bus_4_article-small_20484.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/RobMoney004/injurylightened2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/RobMoney004/1337306250778cached.jpg

This one is my personal favorite. Not a scratch on his hands. He never threw a punch.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/RobMoney004/zimmermanhandsclean_zpsa4d82246.jpg


There was eye witness testimony that Martin was kneeling on top of Zimmerman repeatedly punching Zimmerman in the face causing his head to pound against the concrete ground. And to top it all off, Martin was yelling "You gonna die tonight" while doing it. And the evidence supports that testimony. Those photos support that testimony.
To suggest Zimmerman wasn't reasonably in fear for his life is laughable.

Let's just face the facts. Martin picked the wrong dude to fuck with and got what was coming to him.
Textbook responsible gun ownership.

[Dorothy Wood]

So basically you're telling us you have "self-defense" shooting fantasies?

Zimmerman is free, a teenager is dead. It's over, get over it. Smearing Travyon's name is completely pointless, and doing it as gleefully as you are is just sick.


What about these white boys who beat up a white dude, why aren't you all up in this case? Who's side do you choose? http://www.wnct.com/story/21781289/road-rage-suspect-faces-up-to-four-years-in-prison

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57576310/road-rage-video-leads-to-n.c-couples-arrest/

Teenagers kicked that dude's ass, he didn't even actually shoot at them (just their truck and a house) or injure them, yet he's still probably going to jail. Did you see how fast they kicked his ass though? Do you think they should go to jail? Do you think Bradley Turner should've shot them?


I couldn't stand that Bill Whittle horseshit. How can you trust a man who doesn't even know how to wear the right size collar for his tie? please. He's full of shit, the regular news is full of shit, cable news is full of shit, they're all full of shit and in it for money. I don't know a single person who takes any kind of media seriously. And the fact you would take some breathless nobody seriously, is just, I dunno...naive as fuck.

I'm tired of this and I don't want to come back to this thread. Have fun defending Zimmerman's dumb ass.

[Bob]

did you know? (http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/)

i vow not to rest until i find THE REAL RACIST

[Dorothy Wood]

did you know? (http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/)

i vow not to rest until i find THE REAL RACIST

I lied I'm back, because whoa that survey. Obviously somewhat biased and leading, but matter of fact enough to make the point that Zimmerman is kind of just a dude and not a monster.

I still think George is a dumb ass, and I do feel sorry for him that this happened, his life is over. But, I still think Trayvon is a normal teenager. (I mean seriously, some of the most successful people I know have chugged cough syrup to get "high" at one point or another). It was a terrible thing that could've been avoided, bottom line, if cooler heads prevailed. The fact is, a firearm was discharged and a life was lost. You can argue that if George didn't have a gun, he could've been killed. My argument concedes that while that might be true, George wouldn't have felt emboldened to approach a suspected burglar had he not had a weapon. It never had to be a life or death situation. Stealing shit is not punishable by death.

Anyway, I don't even think jail is an effective behavior management tool, so I don't think jail would help any of this.

[RobMoney$]

I defend Zimmerman because he was righteous and deserves support. You're the dumbass for making your opinion of this clearly based on the biased media coverage you're criticizing. It's clear you didn't get any of your facts from courtroom testimony, Dorothy.

I defend Zimmerman because I know what it's like to live in a neighborhood you see turning bad. Most people do nothing about it.
"It's not my business" is the attitude most take.
And according to this case, it's the attitude most people expected Zimmerman to take. He should have minded his own business. If he didn't get out of his truck poor Trayvon would still be alive today.

It's bullshit.

In my old neighborhood, in which I lived for 39years of my life, we had guys starting to come around in work trucks with fake badges knocking on people's doors posing as alarm company workers. They would see people who put up those signs in their window that said they had ADT home security or whatever and they had a book with all kinds of info about every home security system out there, that way if you had ADT or another company, they had your system in the book.
They would knock on the doors of elderly or single women and say they were from XXX home security company (they would know which one you had by the sign in your window) and they would say they need to access the system right away. They would show the home owner the book and ask which one was theirs. Then they would gain access to the home and one guy would fiddle around with the security system box disarming it. That night they would come back and rob the home.

I had elderly neighbors that I knew since I was a kid that I felt was my duty to look out for. Whenever I see a maintenence truck, cable truck, or any other utility truck around my neighborhood, I always would come out of my house and go over to them and ask to see their ID. I would question them what they were up to.
It's my civic duty to be vigiliant for the safety of my neighbors.

The one time my neighbor had the alarm guy there working on his home alarm and I went over and started asking my usual questions, making sure he was legit. Later on my neighbor told me the alarm guy said, "You know, you don't really need an alarm as long as you got that guy living on your block".

So yeah, I guess I can identify with Zimmerman. A guy not willing to just sit back and "mind his own business", but someone willing to actually do his civic duty and help actually try to do somethiong about a crime problem in his neighborhood by watching out for himself and his neighbors.
He deserves all of our respect for that. Not to be criticized for it or made out to be some "wannabe cop"

[M|X|Y]

^ i knew what you were going to say without even looking at this thread.

that being said, i don't think this case is as cut & dry as a lot of media has made it out to be.

[Yetra Flam]

I have more questions about this whole thing rather than opinions.
When I heard this story as breaking news - I think it was on MSNBC or something - I was under the impression that Zimmerman was this maniac who saw a black kid in his neighborhood and then followed him and just shot him.
But as the trial took place it seems to me that this was just more of an unfortunate incident. Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch leader, he saw this kid in his neighborhood, assumed he was suspicious, started following him, a fight ensued, then his weapon was fired. It is my understanding that Zimmerman shot Martin in self defense and did not intend to kill him. This was not premeditated murder, he did not kill him in cold blood.
It is a very unfortunate incident, because it seemed like Martin was just a normal kid and Zimmerman made a poor judgement call.

However, it seems that a lot of people don't see it this way. I've been seeing things on my Facebook feed that "Zimmerman should get the death penalty." etc.

So, why does it seem like racial tensions are being instigated? When did this become a race issue? Who made this a race issue?

Why is this case such a big deal? How come there are people protesting this in the streets? (Justice for Trayvon, etc) What exactly is it that they're protesting? This is not an isolated event of an unarmed teenager being shot and killed. Why does it seem like people are being encouraged to be outraged about this?

[RobMoney$]

When I heard this story as breaking news - I think it was on MSNBC or something - I was under the impression that Zimmerman was this maniac who saw a black kid in his neighborhood and then followed him and just shot him.

Why was it breaking news in the first place is the question I have.
People shoot other people everyday for all kinds of reasons.
Why was this breaking news?

I'm glad you pointed out how the media portrayed Zimmerman in this case.
As a maniac, is the term you used.
Why did the media portray Zimmerman in that manner?
Why did they use the most innocent looking pics they could find of Martin and use the most creepy ones they could find of Zimmerman even though they were both pics from years ago?
Why did the Attorney General of the United States of America insist on getting involved and pressuring local authorities to bring charges even after their investigation was complete and they decided no charges should be brought?

Why did the black community decide to rally around this incident even tho the evidence of Zimmerman's innocence was overwhelming? Because the media told them to is my best guess.
Because although it's OK for a black person to kill another black person at record rates, let whitey shoot a black person even in self defense, and here they come...

That's racism my friends.

[Yetra Flam]

My take on it (and I hope Im wrong about this) is that there is an effort being made to divide people. And in this case, theyre using race as that dividing point. When you think about it, "race" is a made up thing. We're all the same race, we're all human.
You can call me a whacko, whatever, but this whole thing just seems like a lot of media manipulation and distraction.

[Dorothy Wood]

I defend Zimmerman because he was righteous and deserves support. You're the dumbass for making your opinion of this clearly based on the biased media coverage you're criticizing. It's clear you didn't get any of your facts from courtroom testimony, Dorothy.

I defend Zimmerman because I know what it's like to live in a neighborhood you see turning bad. Most people do nothing about it.
"It's not my business" is the attitude most take.
And according to this case, it's the attitude most people expected Zimmerman to take. He should have minded his own business. If he didn't get out of his truck poor Trayvon would still be alive today.

It's bullshit.

In my old neighborhood, in which I lived for 39years of my life, we had guys starting to come around in work trucks with fake badges knocking on people's doors posing as alarm company workers. They would see people who put up those signs in their window that said they had ADT home security or whatever and they had a book with all kinds of info about every home security system out there, that way if you had ADT or another company, they had your system in the book.
They would knock on the doors of elderly or single women and say they were from XXX home security company (they would know which one you had by the sign in your window) and they would say they need to access the system right away. They would show the home owner the book and ask which one was theirs. Then they would gain access to the home and one guy would fiddle around with the security system box disarming it. That night they would come back and rob the home.

I had elderly neighbors that I knew since I was a kid that I felt was my duty to look out for. Whenever I see a maintenence truck, cable truck, or any other utility truck around my neighborhood, I always would come out of my house and go over to them and ask to see their ID. I would question them what they were up to.
It's my civic duty to be vigiliant for the safety of my neighbors.

The one time my neighbor had the alarm guy there working on his home alarm and I went over and started asking my usual questions, making sure he was legit. Later on my neighbor told me the alarm guy said, "You know, you don't really need an alarm as long as you got that guy living on your block".

So yeah, I guess I can identify with Zimmerman. A guy not willing to just sit back and "mind his own business", but someone willing to actually do his civic duty and help actually try to do somethiong about a crime problem in his neighborhood by watching out for himself and his neighbors.
He deserves all of our respect for that. Not to be criticized for it or made out to be some "wannabe cop"

I'm sorry where did I call for Zimmerman to be punished like he committed murder? And how is your neighborhood burglary ring related to anything Trayvon did? You're letting your own experience influence your position and taking it all so personally. If you took the time to actually read what I've said instead of skimming looking for trigger words, you'd see that my position is that Trayvon shouldn't be denigrated after death. Your defense of Zimmerman includes judgement of Trayvon's character. I don't care that he wasnt a saint, don't care if he beat someone else up, because those aren't things that are punished by death. I think people like you are trying to imply that he was worthless and we're all better off without him...and I think that's fucked up.

[RobMoney$]

I'm sorry where did I call for Zimmerman to be punished like he committed murder?


You implied him being unjustified in defending his own life HERE:


People die from hitting their heads on concrete just falling down. If Zimmerman was getting his head "pounded" into the pavement, he'd have more than just a few scratches. The hospital sent him home, no stitches, no nose splint.

...As if he wasn't really injured all that bad and therefore didn't really have a good reson to use deadly force.

You basically implied his guilt, and he was charged with Murder 2, so you basically called him a murderer.
At least that's how I took it.

And how is your neighborhood burglary ring related to anything Trayvon did?

My experience in my neighborhood and my being proactrive in trying to stop crime and look out for the people I live around relates to what Zimmerman was doing as a member of town watch. It had nothing to do with Martin. I thought I explained that rather clearly when I said I can relate to Zimmerman.



Man Rob, you're so weird and such an alarmist.

I think people like you are trying to imply that he was worthless and we're all better off without him...and I think that's fucked up.

Perhaps if you stopped trying to use this debate as an opportunity to take personal shots at me and put me down, and you took the time to actually learn the facts of the case before you decided to join the debate you'd be able to garner more support.
Perhaps YOU'RE the one who should try to keep personal feelings out of it?

[YoungRemy]

I'm speaking only to the cries of media bias, as I took a six month hiatus away from this polarizing story and did not watch the trial (who has time for that these days?)

so why is it when we learn that Zimmerman had been arrested for assaulting a police officer, his ex girlfriend had a restraining order against him, and his cousin accused him of sexual molestation, that's the liberal media....

-

but when you have a dead teenager with thc in his system and a petty school record- it turns into a running story of him being "doped up" (ted nugent's words), high on lean, he went to the store for blunts and ingredients for his lean, and an entire running commentary on what's wrong with black America and how he deserved it.


because I guarantee this, RobMoney, and you're not going to like it, but some racist opportunist motherfuckers are using this to celebrate and reinforce their negative preconceived perceptions.

now at the same time- OF COURSE there are some ignorant angry Quannel X New Black Panther Party opportunist motherfuckers out there too, ruining it for the peaceful protestors an making everybody look bad...

but to only point out one side, keep saying liberal slant, media bias, and buzzwords like race card or racebaiting adds nothing to the entire discussion.

is my opinion.

[Dorothy Wood]

You implied him being unjustified in defending his own life HERE:



...As if he wasn't really injured all that bad and therefore didn't really have a good reson to use deadly force.

You basically implied his guilt, and he was charged with Murder 2, so you basically called him a murderer.
At least that's how I took it.



My experience in my neighborhood and my being proactrive in trying to stop crime and look out for the people I live around relates to what Zimmerman was doing as a member of town watch. It had nothing to do with Martin. I thought I explained that rather clearly when I said I can relate to Zimmerman.







Perhaps if you stopped trying to use this debate as an opportunity to take personal shots at me and put me down, and you took the time to actually learn the facts of the case before you decided to join the debate you'd be able to garner more support.
Perhaps YOU'RE the one who should try to keep personal feelings out of it?

I'm insulting you because you're insulting my intelligence. I read everything you posted, I watched that whole ridiculous fake news segment trying to make Trayvon into a criminal. I filled out that whole survey Bob posted and acknowledged it made an impact.

Here's the thing, I'm trying to tell you that you're not George Zimmerman, you're looking at this through the lens of "it could've been me", and I think that's the wrong way to look at it. I don't think Zimmerman should've followed Martin, bottom line. Don't care if he was neighborhood watch, don't care if he was on or off duty, don't care if Martin was acting suspicious, you don't follow people because you think they might have done something. He wasn't a cop, he was not doing a civic duty, he let his curiosity and bravado lead him. For that, I think he's a dumb ass.

And I think trying to drag a dead kid's name through the mud in defense of the person who shot him is fucked up.

[RobMoney$]

I don't think Zimmerman should've followed Martin, bottom line. Don't care if he was neighborhood watch, don't care if he was on or off duty, don't care if Martin was acting suspicious, you don't follow people because you think they might have done something. He wasn't a cop, he was not doing a civic duty, he let his curiosity and bravado lead him. For that, I think he's a dumb ass.

Well, this is where you (along with most people) and I differ on this case, Dorothy. Fortunately, the law is on my side though.

I think not only did Zimmerman have a RIGHT to follow someone he thinks looks suspicious, I believe he has a civic and moral obligation to not only follow anyone he thinks looks suspicious, but to also approach him and question who Martin was and what he was doing there. There's no law that says you have to be a cop to talk to someone you aren't familiar with and see who they are and why they're there.

See, it may seem intrusive and annoying for someone to do that. No one likes to be questioned or annoyed, BUT IT'S NOT ILLEGAL for Zimmerman to do so.
What is illegal, is for Martin, a 17yo kid, to approach a grown man he knows is following him and physically and brutally assault him.
Aggravated Assault is a crime in every single muncipality in this entire country.

Also, I've been in and witnessed a lot of street fights in my life, and it's true that there's no such thing as a fair fight, but there are some unwritten rules that most people fight by. One of them is when a man is down on the ground you don't get on top of him. When he's down, he's down and he's lost the fight. If he gets up, then it's fair to give him more of an ass beating.
Beating a man who is already down made the winner look like a weak punk who can't win a fight fairly.

So I think Martin was a punk for beating a man who he had already knocked down and I say good for Zimmerman for blasting his punk ass. That's why I think he got what was coming to him.
And I don't really care if anyone's offended by me saying it. Martin was a punk.

[Micodin]

So I think Martin was a punk for beating a man who he had already knocked down and I say good for Zimmerman for blasting his punk ass. That's why I think he got what was coming to him.
And I don't really care if anyone's offended by me saying it. Martin was a punk.

Wow. That's some evil horrible shit.

[Dorothy Wood]

so fucking gross, Rob, your whole "tough guy" persona is pathetic and makes me feel sick.

[kaiser soze]

Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle and let the authorities do their work

guilty as sin

a gun does not make a hero - but it surely made a dead kid

[RobMoney$]

so fucking gross, Rob, your whole "tough guy" persona is pathetic and makes me feel sick.

Now who's clutching her pearls and gasping?

Interesting that you can find absolutely no fault with anything Martin did. He was just an innocent you child skipping home aimlessly from the store with his little bag of candy and a heart full of promise.

Please.

[YoungRemy]

let's see, more talking points (because it took 18 months for this topic to reach here)

- Zim saved a family in a car wreck

- Zim got pulled over for speeding in TX and was totally armed, then totally released.

- oh have you heard the latest narrative? not the one that says Trayvon was buying ingredients for the purple drank, but that he had UNDERAGED NUDIE PHOTOS on his cell phone!

he is such a criminal thug and the liberal media has portrayed him as a Hollister wearing Skittles fiend!

[Bob]

arguing with robmoney about a topic involving race is like trying to get around a brick wall by debating the merits of the wall moving out of the way

you guys should probably not bother

[RobMoney$]

- Zim got pulled over for speeding in TX and was totally armed, then totally released.

Ok. Zimmerman was speeding. WOW. What a hardened criminal.

Can anyone tell me with any bit of knowledge on the subject, is it illegal to carry a firearm in your glovebox in the state of Texas?
I thought everyone drove around Texas with shotgun racks in the back window of their pickup trucks? I just assumed it was legal down there.
If you saw the video, you saw that Zimmerman pulled over about a quarter mile before the cop even flipped his lights on. The cop didn't even have a chance to get behind him as he was already waiting in the shoulder of the road as the police vehicle approached him.
He informed the officer immediately that he had a firearm in the glovebox without even being asked.

Once again, displaying textbook responsible gun ownership.

The cop then informed him that he would be letting him go with a warning as long as he didn't come back as having any warrants.

Move along, nothing else to see here.

[RobMoney$]

arguing with robmoney about a topic involving race is like trying to get around a brick wall by debating the merits of the wall moving out of the way

you guys should probably not bother

The most frustrating thing about this case is that it was made into a racial issue.

Also Bob, I'm white.
Zimmerman is hispanic.
Martin was black.

I've got no horse in this racial race.

[YoungRemy]

Ok. Zimmerman was speeding. WOW. What a hardened criminal.

Can anyone tell me with any bit of knowledge on the subject, is it illegal to carry a firearm in your glovebox in the state of Texas?
I thought everyone drove around Texas with shotgun racks in the back window of their pickup trucks? I just assumed it was legal down there.
If you saw the video, you saw that Zimmerman pulled over about a quarter mile before the cop even flipped his lights on. The cop didn't even have a chance to get behind him as he was already waiting in the shoulder of the road as the police vehicle approached him.
He informed the officer immediately that he had a firearm in the glovebox without even being asked.

Once again, displaying textbook responsible gun ownership.

The cop then informed him that he would be letting him go with a warning as long as he didn't come back as having any warrants.

Move along, nothing else to see here.

no, I know.

just catching the group up on what every other forum on the Internet is talking about since the verdict.

talking points.

Texas requires a license to carry a concealed handgun and recognizes a concealed handgun license from other states as legit.

shotguns and rifles are considered legal in most rural areas in Texas, and no, not everyone drives around with them in their pickup trucks.

gun laws aside, I can't believe he was so cool during that traffic stop. I can't fathom how a Texas cop would pull over an out of state (Hispanic) driver and let them go for speeding after he literally tells the cop that he is going 'nowhere in particular'


carry on, nothing to see here...

Zim's a scumbag

[Burnout18]

See, it may seem intrusive and annoying for someone to do that. No one likes to be questioned or annoyed, BUT IT'S NOT ILLEGAL for Zimmerman to do so.
What is illegal, is for Martin, a 17yo kid, to approach a grown man he knows is following him and physically and brutally assault him.
Aggravated Assault is a crime in every single muncipality in this entire country.


There is absolutely no legal rebuttal to this. No matter what anyone thinks of zimmerman, this pretty much somes up why he walked. Nice summary.

[Burnout18]

So I think Martin was a punk for beating a man who he had already knocked down and I say good for Zimmerman for blasting his punk ass. That's why I think he got what was coming to him.
And I don't really care if anyone's offended by me saying it. Martin was a punk.

I dont think this is an offensive comment. In fact lets be honest...

This case and everything about it brought out the worst kind of people in our culture.

Zimmerman... the wanna be cop, the guy who over reacted. This all starts with him. Observe and Report, then sit and wait for the real police to respond. I dont applaud him for trying to track down martin when he lost sight of him. what if it wasnt an unarmed Martin, and another guy had a weapon on him? Shoot out at the gated community?!?! Really what was he gonna do? imaginary handcuff martin?

Trayvon Martin... turned out he was no saint. You all know he was at his fathers place on a Sunday night because he had been suspended from school, right? He got caught with stolen jewelry(although he was suspended for graffiti.) He had been suspended two other times as well. He thought he was a tough guy, check the texts rob posted earlier in the thread. I can totally see a kid who thinks hes a tough guy attacking someone he thinks he can take. And to his credit... he did take him.

How about the media? This was national news because "white man shot an unarmed black teen while he was walking home from the store with tea and skittles for his brother" Right? wasnt that story we were fed? Then the edited 911 call pissed us all off, Right? I know i was duped. Well that turned out to be some bullshit. NBC Fired a today show producer over the doctored 911 tape. The initial pictures attached to the story were that of a 12 year old Trayvon and Zimmerman from a PREVIOUS arrest. More Bullshit. Holy shit, turns out this played right into the hands of everyone who think theres a mainstream media bias.

Even the minor players in this story were embarassing...

The defense lawyer who opened the case with that immature and stupid joke, the prosecutor who basically sounded like my girlfriend fighting with me ("Come on... Really? What do you think happened? Seriously??") to ms. Rachel Jeantel who totally wasn't ready for prime time, to the juror who's running around telling people she wish she didnt vote not guilty... To our president who tried to identify with martin for sympathy... to all the people who ruined peaceful protests with acts of violence, and to the idiots on the internet like myself who jumped to conclusions about this case.... Almost no one came out a looking respectable here. Our entire culture looks like losers.

To their credit, Trayvon Martin's parents acted with complete class and dignity.... other than that, we all sucked.

[Dorothy Wood]

You don't have to be black to have empathy for a dead black kid and his family and friends. End of story. Let's all move on.

[TurdBerglar]

you guys just fell into the media's clever trap of garnering as much attention as possible. the aftermath of this incident is nothing more than a business ploy. stop listening to people on tv! they're trolling you!

somehow the media has been allowed to take control of our own petty minds and opinions that we think are important. they're not important. get over yourself. the only reason the media does it, is because it makes them money. there's no political slant to anything. they just want the fucking money that your attention brings them.