Sonically, which album do you like best?

[tt5brevisited]

And, why?

[Brass Monk]

Could you state how the word "sonically" should be defined for the purposes of this conversation? Seems like it's the new all-purpose buzz term used these days for quantifying an album's quality.

I looked it up in the dictionary and the definition I got was "of or relating to audible sound".

[tt5brevisited]

Could you state how the word "sonically" should be defined for the purposes of this conversation?

Umm ok.
Sonic qualities, like, the mixing and mastering of the albums.
How loud are the vocals compared to the drums.
Do you like the overly loud scratches on LTI or the more subtle ones on TT5B.
How 'clean' did Mario C actually keep it compared to Duro.

That type of stuff. 'Balance' between all elements I guess.

[Guy Incognito]

Hello Nasty for me. There were so many different styles of tracks yet pretty much everything sounds great, even seems to be a similar feel to some different sounding tracks. I'm not sure i have explained that well, but its like The neg lim file feels right next to I dont know, even though they are very different. also i liked the incorporation of more electronic sounds with everything else they had picked up along the way. To be able to produce MMM and also knock up a little jazz folk tune and some other bits is a real achievment. Its the most diverse and interesting album for me and its really well done.

[JohnnyChavello]

Order of preference (sonically, not overall):

1. Check Your Head
2. Paul's Boutique
3. Hot Sauce Committee Part II
4. Ill Communication
5. The Mix Up (hard to put this one into the overall mix, but it "sounds" good
6. Licensed to Ill
7. Hello Nasty
8. To the Five Boroughs

Not all that different from my overall order of preference.

[Brother McDuff]

Ill Communication, all day.

It was their final all-analog album and you can tell Mario had their sound mastered by then. The instruments are warm, the samples are crispy, the distortion is gritty yet smooth, and the Tin Pan Alley plate reverb was creamy as fuck. Oh yeah, and the drums knock so nice.

That said, none of their albums really slouch in the sonic sense; except Paul's Boutique, though the shabby sonic quality of PB is an integral part of the album's mystery and legend, so I wouldn't have it any other way (y). (plus the remaster sounds really nice with the re-imagined low end, though that doesn't really count)
My sonic hierarchy:

1) Ill Communication
2) Hello Nasty
3) Check Your Head
4) Paul's Boutique (on a technicality ;))
5) The Mix-Up
6) To The 5 Boroughs
7) Hot Sauce Committee
8) Licensed To Ill (a victim of its time)

They're difficult to compare though considering their content is so different, like apples and oranges at times. For instance, TMU would just be wack were it mixed like TT5B, and vice versa.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Licensed to Ill because it "has become one of the most important sonic templates of the last twenty years." (Greg Milner, 2009). I think Milner (2009) is correct about this and he credits in part Andy Wallace who worked on the album. Does anyone know the degree to which Wallace was involved in the early days? Found this quote in another forum but cannot verify its validity. Sounds genuine though:

"I recorded the Beastses back in 1984 at Shakedown Studios in NYC...they were 4, with a girl named Kate also in the group. I set them up facing each other with 4 AKG 414 mics in hypercardiod. They would do a pass all together and then go back one by one and fix. This way we could mute each one's original vocal with very little bleed during the overdub. I think that they just had a 12" deal at the time. I remember being there with Andy Wallace when he showed them the John Bonham samples on the Emulator."

Sources:

[1] Milner (2009) quote on page 179 (http://www.theguardian.com/books/2009/jul/26/edison-sean-ohagan-pop-music)

[2] Forum quote (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-production/168133-beastie-boys-mictophones.html)

[3] More on Andy Wallace (http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_andy_wallace/)

[Micodin]

This is off topic a tad, but the LTI songs always seemed to have more punch when they played them out live. (imo)

[pm0ney]

Sonic 2, for sure. Casino Night Zone in the two player mode, Metropolis zone, Mystic Cave zone, forget it.

[JoLovesMCA]

I was sort of stuck on Hello Nasty, but then I thought about how you included Mario C in regards to the over-all sound..... so I ended up voting Check Your Head.... I think I should have just voted Hello Nasty!

Uh yeah I am not good with analyzing music!

[Brother McDuff]

Sonic 2, for sure. Casino Night Zone in the two player mode, Metropolis zone, Mystic Cave zone, forget it.


No love for Hill Top Zone!?! That was my shit. Labyrinth Zone from Sonic 1 anyone?

Mystic Cave Zone was no fuckin joke though, you're right.

[pm0ney]

No love for Hill Top Zone!?! That was my shit. Labyrinth Zone from Sonic 1 anyone?

Mystic Cave Zone was no fuckin joke though, you're right.

That beat was HARD dude.

[tt5brevisited]

I remember being there with Andy Wallace when he showed them the John Bonham samples on the Emulator."

Sources:

[1] Milner (2009) quote on page 179 (http://www.theguardian.com/books/2009/jul/26/edison-sean-ohagan-pop-music)

[2] Forum quote (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-production/168133-beastie-boys-mictophones.html)

[3] More on Andy Wallace (http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_andy_wallace/)

Interesting, thanks.

[pshabi]

I'm with the Brother Mcduff. Ill Comm.

[Brass Monk]

As much as I love it and listen to it regularly, throw the mix-up outta this conversation.

"Sonically" I have a 6-way tie with LTI, PB, CYH, IC, HN & HSCP2. Each achieved the perfect sound for what the album was supposed to be. It's hard to pick one over the other.

As a die hard Beastie Boys fan, I can appreciate TT5B in some respects (For example Yauch's verse on Rhyme the Rhyme Well is one of my favorites of all-time). But ultimately that album suffered from a flat, poor, bare-bones production approach that often makes it hard to listen to.

[Guy Incognito]

Lots of check your head sounds like they literally just hit record. which is cool, i'm not knocking that. thats part of its charm. And parts of IC feel like that as well but in terms of the question and regarding production, Hello Nasty sounds like the one they tweaked and refined and tinkered with a lot and had such a wide selection of sounds and ideas.

[Lyman Zerga]

im not gonna believe you if you say lti or tt5b as your #1!

[fonky pizza]

I voted for Paul's Boutique but I got to say Hello Nasty:cool:

[Brother McDuff]

Lots of check your head sounds like they literally just hit record.

that was likely often the case, considering the approach and turnover the record entailed. and as you said, it is part of the charm. that record is very kind to my ears. the mix is very nice.

[pm0ney]

They all sound great in their own way. Except TT5B. Outside of Ch Check It Out and 3 The Hard Way that records sounds like a shitty Reason demo. Looking forward to the revisted remix the original poster here is working on.

My favorite is Check Your Head. The drums on Pass the Mic are the best I've ever heard. Jimmy James to me is the best sounding record of all time. Perfection.

[Brother McDuff]

They all sound great in their own way. Except TT5B. Outside of Ch Check It Out and 3 The Hard Way that records sounds like a shitty Reason demo.

you get what you put in. if the recorded footage sounds like anus (aka Reason, which it was) then no mix can save that. if you get good tones, create solid sounds on the way into the recorder (a la 90s beasties), then your song is gonna mix itself, essentially. ideally, if you spend the time getting sick tones, your mix is half done before you even start.

god bless Mario C. :cool:


for what it was though, which wasnt much, I think Duro made the most of TT5B sonically. its balanced, the drums knock, the vocals were crisp. he just wasnt given much o work with by way of substance.

[tt5brevisited]

im not gonna believe you if you say lti or tt5b as your #1!

Why not?
LTI is in my top 3, at least.

[Brass Monk]

you get what you put in. if the recorded footage sounds like anus (aka Reason, which it was) then no mix can save that. if you get good tones, create solid sounds on the way into the recorder (a la 90s beasties), then your song is gonna mix itself, essentially. ideally, if you spend the time getting sick tones, your mix is half done before you even start.

god bless Mario C. :cool:


for what it was though, which wasnt much, I think Duro made the most of TT5B sonically. its balanced, the drums knock, the vocals were crisp. he just wasnt given much o work with by way of substance.

The drums on most of that album give me a headache. Songs like "Shazam!" could have been so much better with more competent production. It's true there was less to work with as far as recorded footage was concerned, but that excuse only goes so far.

[fonky pizza]

TT5B with shrimps stuck in my ears.thnx

[Brother McDuff]

The drums on most of that album give me a headache. Songs like "Shazam!" could have been so much better with more competent production. It's true there was less to work with as far as recorded footage was concerned, but that excuse only goes so far.

the production and the mixdown are 2 different things.


but i agree, TT5B's production was far from a shining moment for them.

[Guy Incognito]

i think the songs on tt5b are more of a problem than the production. not enough substance, some substandard rhymes, not enough variation.

I agree that parts sound like a reason demo but i dont think there was that much worth any sort of intensive production really.

[Freebasser]

For me it has to be either CYH or IC. Although PB is my favourite album overall, the Beasties just always sounded at their best and most experimental when using cheap-ass mics and drowned in fuzz. As I've got older I've started to lean way more toward shoegaze and drone than any other genres, which might suggest why I enjoy the gritty rawness of those two albums.

CYH for me purely because it came first (y)

[tt5brevisited]

What if they never disclosed using Reason? How would you describe TT5B?
I hear you guys, but there are some pretty cool beats on there IMO and sonically I think Duro nailed it for what he was given'.


Bro McDuff, you're a studio / mix engineer or something?

[Guy Incognito]

. As I've got older I've started to lean way more toward shoegaze and drone than any other genres,

off topic but what bands are "drone"?

Shoegaze i am familiar with, well at least the early 90's stuff but is there anybody out now who fits that bill?

[Guy Incognito]

What if they never disclosed using Reason? How would you describe TT5B?



fair point. i did actually picture that reason demo film ad-rock did during reading this thread.

My problem with it is the lack of variety. I understand they wanted to make a certain sort of record but i still think they compromised a lot of their influences and ideas by doing that. There are bits of tt5b that are dull and sparse and missing a lot of crazy fills and random bits that are a bit of a trademark of theirs. I'm thinking of "mashed potato" or "the blue nun" or "i sold my house, sold my car" etc. stuff like that that just came from nowhere.

[tt5brevisited]

There are bits of tt5b that are dull and sparse and missing a lot of crazy fills and random bits that are a bit of a trademark of theirs. I'm thinking of "mashed potato" or "the blue nun" or "i sold my house, sold my car" etc. stuff like that that just came from nowhere.

True, though sparse doesn't have to mean dull, a lot of early Hip Hop is very sparse yet exciting to my ears. IMO they were flirting with that on TT5B.

[JohnnyChavello]

It doesn't have that much to do with a discussion of the sonics of the album, but, for the record, the sample of Richard Pryor's Acid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_CZswausC4) in Funky Boss is, in my opinion, one of the single most ingenious uses of a sample I've ever heard.

[Freebasser]

off topic but what bands are "drone"?

Shoegaze i am familiar with, well at least the early 90's stuff but is there anybody out now who fits that bill?

Drone's one of those terms people throw around to mean a variety of different genres but many understand it to mean the sort of electronic or white noise aspects of shoegaze extracted and pushed to their limits. It's less to do with the melody than it is overlaying sound to create emotion. It's kinda like the sinister cousin of ambient.

I've seen some people class M83's early stuff as 'electronic shoegaze' and at times he touches on drone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adff5WAKruU BRMC did a self-released album of drone which has some good stuff on - much different from anything they released commercially http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-_fl9Jglp0. Aphex Twin's darker ambient stuff is class: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foOB13oVM7g Lawrence English does some good stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAlSPGzZuRI I find the best stuff just trawling similar videos on YouTube or similar artists on iTunes.

For me, drone is a useful tool for working to or drifting off to because it creates a background static.

Shoegaze wise, again it tends to be the niche sections of YouTube where the good modern day stuff turns up. Try this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q3j0JPFgYc), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdEUjCDBltw) or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeGsMC1FqVQ) and let's not forget that My Bloody Valentine are back in town :cool:

[Sir SkratchaLot]

I was listening to the LTI show vinyl the other day and that shit does KNOCK. Something with how they pressed records back in the 80s or something. The compression in them is just crazy cool sounding.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

It doesn't have that much to do with a discussion of the sonics of the album, but, for the record, the sample of Richard Pryor's Acid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_CZswausC4) in Funky Boss is, in my opinion, one of the single most ingenious uses of a sample I've ever heard.

Whoah, that's crazy. I never caught that sample before. I ended up using a really similar Richard Pryor sample on a Richard Pryor themed mixtape I did back in 2007. He just has this voice where it's harmonic at times so I looped it. Check at 33min 30 seconds.
http://www.tablist.net/audio/jam-burglar/diggers-crazy

I just had a "Beasties did it" moment. I thought I found something original but, nope, Beastie's did it.

[Brother McDuff]

What if they never disclosed using Reason? How would you describe TT5B?
I hear you guys, but there are some pretty cool beats on there IMO and sonically I think Duro nailed it for what he was given'.

personally, I recognized the Reason element immediately, as I was using it quite a bit back then. but from a completely objective opinion, I think one would describe the sounds as cold, sterile, thin.

no doubt, there's some great stuff in there, just sayin it wasn't on par with the rest of their catalogue. the beatsie boys on their worst day are still exceptional craftsman. but as I stated before, I agree, I think Duro did the record justice. (y)


Bro McDuff, you're a studio / mix engineer or something?

yup

[pm0ney]

TT5B would have been so much better with a simple 808 machine or an SP 1200 for the drum sounds. That's all. They all said it like a hundred times: They used the computers because it was easier. A long time ago a very smart man told me "the long way is the short way." TT5B might be the best example of that I've ever seen in music. Ten years later the album sucks. Sorry. It sounds like poo poo and it's filled with rhymes about George W. Bush. Womp.

MTV is using "No Sleep Till Brooklyn" as the theme for the 2013 VMA's. It sounds like a record that could have been released yesterday and would top the charts. Whoever put TT5B in the same sentence as Licensed To Ill is out of their mind. LTI is one of the greatest albums in history. How many 808 kick drums do you hear today? That shit became universal after LTI dropped.

[JohnnyChavello]

Whoah, that's crazy. I never caught that sample before. I ended up using a really similar Richard Pryor sample on a Richard Pryor themed mixtape I did back in 2007. He just has this voice where it's harmonic at times so I looped it. Check at 33min 30 seconds.
http://www.tablist.net/audio/jam-burglar/diggers-crazy

I just had a "Beasties did it" moment. I thought I found something original but, nope, Beastie's did it.

Over Dead Prez, nice. There's the sample of him that opens Flute Loop, I know NWA sampled Richard Pryor on EFIL4ZAGGIN, think PE has...I feel like there are more.

[100% ILL]

CYH because it's so "full". It's hip hop, rock, jazzy,funky and humorous. In short it has everything I love about the Beastie Boys. Plus it came out my senior year in high school, so a lot of great memories there.
LTI is what hooked me though, quite possibly the best "rap" album ever.
Paul's Boutique is by far their best rhyming record IMO, with all the crazy samples and references, just a classic piece of work that never gets old.
I kinda missed IC when it came out, I was newly married and in the service, but I fell in love with it after the fact.
I remember when HN came out like yesterday however. One of the younger guys in my unit was listening to the radio at work one day and was like "Hey Cpl. Jones, that old group you like has a new song out, it's pretty good." Intergalactic was the song of course.
I started checking out the boards just prior to TT5B coming out and I remember being so excited. Those were some awesome times :-)
My wife made a video of our family vacation using 'Make some noise' back when it came out :-) more good times!
This was a tough poll for me. Every record represents something different at a different time in my life.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Over Dead Prez, nice. There's the sample of him that opens Flute Loop, I know NWA sampled Richard Pryor on EFIL4ZAGGIN, think PE has...I feel like there are more.

Oh, yeah, he's been sampled all over the place. There are a TON of Richard Pryor records out there too. I'm probably pushing 20 at this point.
http://www.whosampled.com/sampled/Richard%20Pryor/

[Guy Incognito]

Oh, yeah, he's been sampled all over the place. There are a TON of Richard Pryor records out there too. I'm probably pushing 20 at this point.
http://www.whosampled.com/sampled/Richard%20Pryor/

There were two versions of this done for the childhood mixtape project. I made one but didnt have enough pryor samples so i suggested someone else have a go and 7x5 nailed it

http://beastiemixes.com/download.php?id=1480&chk=2who

[Guy Incognito]

Drone's one of those terms people throw around to mean a variety of different genres but many understand it to mean the sort of electronic or white noise aspects of shoegaze extracted and pushed to their limits. It's less to do with the melody than it is overlaying sound to create emotion. It's kinda like the sinister cousin of ambient.

I've seen some people class M83's early stuff as 'electronic shoegaze' and at times he touches on drone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adff5WAKruU BRMC did a self-released album of drone which has some good stuff on - much different from anything they released commercially http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-_fl9Jglp0. Aphex Twin's darker ambient stuff is class: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foOB13oVM7g Lawrence English does some good stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAlSPGzZuRI I find the best stuff just trawling similar videos on YouTube or similar artists on iTunes.

For me, drone is a useful tool for working to or drifting off to because it creates a background static.

Shoegaze wise, again it tends to be the niche sections of YouTube where the good modern day stuff turns up. Try this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q3j0JPFgYc), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdEUjCDBltw) or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeGsMC1FqVQ) and let's not forget that My Bloody Valentine are back in town :cool:

that aphex track was minimal to say the least. i prefer his stuff thats got a bit more going on.
93 million miles from the sun is a fantastic name for a band
Really like the kult country track. lots of influences in there.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

that aphex track was minimal to say the least. i prefer his stuff thats got a bit more going on.
93 million miles from the sun is a fantastic name for a band
Really like the kult country track. lots of influences in there.

MBV only, always :)

[Michelle*s_Farm]

You are all so wrong votin' CYH (http://youtu.be/DC-gRQh_pFw) ;)

[Michelle*s_Farm]

You are all so wrong votin' CYH (http://youtu.be/DC-gRQh_pFw) ;)

cause this is da better y'all (http://youtu.be/U7M7d8u40I4)