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View Full Version : so apparently there's absolute proof of water on mars


TurdBerglar
09-27-2013, 03:20 PM
a lot of water...

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/wow-moment-curiosity-finds-water-mars-common-dirt-8C11270152

Future Mars explorers may be able to get all the water they need out of the red dirt beneath their boots, a new study suggests.


NASA's Mars rover Curiosity has found that surface soil on the Red Planet contains about 2 percent water by weight. That means astronaut pioneers could extract roughly 2 pints (1 liter) of water out of every cubic foot (0.03 cubic meters) of Martian dirt they dig up, said study lead author Laurie Leshin, of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y.

"For me, that was a big 'wow' moment," Leshin told Space.com. "I was really happy when we saw that there's easily accessible water here in the dirt beneath your feet. And it's probably true anywhere you go on Mars." [The Search for Water on Mars (Photos)]

The new study is one of five papers published in the journal Science Thursday that report what researchers have learned about Martian surface materials from the work Curiosity did during its first 100 days on the Red Planet.

Soaking up atmospheric water
Curiosity touched down inside Mars' huge Gale Crater in August 2012, kicking off a planned two-year surface mission to determine if the Red Planet could ever have supported microbial life. It achieved that goal in March, when it found that a spot near its landing site called Yellowknife Bay was indeed habitable billions of years ago.


But Curiosity did quite a bit of science work before getting to Yellowknife Bay. Leshin and her colleagues looked at the results of Curiosity's first extensive Mars soil analyses, which the 1-ton rover performed on dirt that it scooped up at a sandy site called Rocknest in November 2012.

Using its Sample Analysis at Mars instrument, or SAM, Curiosity heated this dirt to a temperature of 1,535 degrees Fahrenheit (835 degrees Celsius), and then identified the gases that boiled off. SAM saw significant amounts of carbon dioxide, oxygen and sulfur compounds — and lots of water on Mars.

Water1
Science / AAAS

At left, a closeup view of the Mars rock target Rocknest taken by the Curiosity rover showing its sandy surface and shadows that were disrupted by the rover's front left wheel. At right, a view of Mars samples from Curiosity's third dirt scoop.

SAM also determined that the soil water is rich in deuterium, a "heavy" isotope of hydrogen that contains one neutron and one proton (as opposed to "normal" hydrogen atoms, which have no neutrons). The water in Mars' thin air sports a similar deuterium ratio, Leshin said.


"That tells us that the dirt is acting like a bit of a sponge and absorbing water from the atmosphere," she said.

Some bad news for manned exploration
SAM detected some organic compounds in the Rocknest sample as well — carbon-containing chemicals that are the building blocks of life here on Earth. But as mission scientists reported late last year, these are simple, chlorinated organics that likely have nothing to do with Martian life. [The Hunt for Martian Life: A Photo Timeline]


Instead, Leshin said, they were probably produced when organics that hitched a ride from Earth reacted with chlorine atoms released by a toxic chemical in the sample called perchlorate.

Perchlorate is known to exist in Martian dirt; NASA's Phoenix lander spotted it near the planet's north pole in 2008. Curiosity has now found evidence of it near the equator, suggesting that the chemical is common across the planet. (Indeed, observations by a variety of robotic Mars explorers indicate that Red Planet dirt is likely similar from place to place, distributed in a global layer across the surface, Leshin said.)

The presence of perchlorate is a challenge that architects of future manned Mars missions will have to overcome, Leshin said.

"Perchlorate is not good for people. We have to figure out, if humans are going to come into contact with the soil, how to deal with that," she said.

"That's the reason we send robotic explorers before we send humans — to try to really understand both the opportunities and the good stuff, and the challenges we need to work through," Leshin added.

A wealth of discoveries
The four other papers published in Science Thursday reported exciting results as well.


For example, Curiosity's laser-firing ChemCam instrument found a strong hydrogen signal in fine-grained Martian soils along the rover's route, reinforcing the SAM data and further suggesting that water is common in dirt across the planet (since such fine soils are globally distributed).

Another study reveals more intriguing details about a rock Curiosity studied in October 2012. This stone — which scientists dubbed "Jake Matijevic" in honor of a mission team member who died two weeks after the rover touched down — is a type of volcanic rock never before seen on Mars.

However, rocks similar to Jake Matijevic are commonly observed here on Earth, especially on oceanic islands and in rifts where the planet's crust is thinning out.

"Of all the Martian rocks, this one is the most Earth-like. It's kind of amazing," said Curiosity lead scientist John Grotzinger, a geologist at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. "What it indicates is that the planet is more evolved than we thought it was, more differentiated."

The five new studies showcase the diversity and scientific value of Gale Crater, Grotzinger said. They also highlight how well Curiosity's 10 science instruments have worked together, returning huge amounts of data that will keep the mission team busy for years to come.

"The amount of information that comes out of this rover just blows me away, all the time," Grotzinger told Space.com. "We're getting better at using Curiosity, and she just keeps telling us more and more. One year into the mission, we still feel like we're drinking from a fire hose."

The road to Mount Sharp
The pace of discovery could pick up even more. This past July, Curiosity left the Yellowknife Bay area and headed for Mount Sharp, which rises 3.4 miles (5.5 kilometers) into the Martian sky from Gale Crater's center.


Mount Sharp has been Curiosity's main destination since before the rover's November 2011 launch. Mission scientists want the rover to climb up through the mountain's foothills, reading the terrain's many layers along the way.

"As we go through the rock layers, we're basically looking at the history of ancient environments and how they may be changing," Grotzinger said. "So what we'll really be able to do for the first time is get a relative chronology of some substantial part of Martian history, which should be pretty cool."

Curiosity has covered about 20 percent of the planned 5.3-mile (8.5 km) trek to Mount Sharp. The rover, which is doing science work as it goes, may reach the base of the mountain around the middle of next year, Grotzinger said.


this is pretty increadible

cosmo105
09-28-2013, 09:35 AM
(y) rad

Bob
09-28-2013, 10:42 AM
wake me up when they find mermaids

RobMoney$
09-28-2013, 10:47 AM
Talking Heads were trying to tell us this years ago:

Water dissolving...and water removing
There is water at the bottom of the ocean
Carry the water at the bottom of the ocean
Remove the water at the bottom of the ocean!

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/in the silent water
Under the rocks and stones/there is water underground.

Guy Incognito
09-28-2013, 10:55 AM
The whole mars thing freaks me out a bit, makes me dubious of peoples motives and whether all the money spent on this sort of thing couldnt be used to fix the actual problems going on here. I suppose the argument could be made for trying to discover things that may help us all. I dont really know whats best, i'm torn. Its cool to explore the possibility of other life forms and all that but its the expense and resource that worries me. I'd prefer to get our own shit in order a bit more.

cosmo105
09-28-2013, 02:31 PM
That is such a bullshit argument. Of course it would be GREAT if society as a whole could focus on all of the problems in the world and "fix everything" but since when is that possible in any sort of practical way? And since when is humankind going to actually get together and do that? You could say that about any science, but ultimately science is bigger than ourselves, and teaches us about ourselves in its process.

Do you know what space exploration does for humanity? It is one of the most noble and intelligent things we can do with ourselves. It drives technology forward through necessity at a rate and magnitude higher than just about any other field.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/18/2881914/watch-this-neil-degrasse-tyson-nasa-future-dreams

SCIENCE GODDAMNIT :mad:

checkyourprez
09-28-2013, 03:08 PM
Science Rules (http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/S-SciRulesBillNye.gif)

Bob
09-28-2013, 05:17 PM
it's also worth noting that in a billion years or whatever, the sun is going to expand and all life on earth is going to end so if we haven't figured out a way off by then, we're guaranteed to all die horribly. we're probably going to figure out a way to kill ourselves (or earth) long before then anyway, but there's no harm in figuring out this whole space thing early!

i would also love to see the pie chart of "why humanity is having problems," just to check out how big the "we're exploring space too much" slice is. i bet it's not very big.

Lyman Zerga
09-28-2013, 05:52 PM
The whole mars thing freaks me out a bit, makes me dubious of peoples motives and whether all the money spent on this sort of thing couldnt be used to fix the actual problems going on here. I suppose the argument could be made for trying to discover things that may help us all. I dont really know whats best, i'm torn. Its cool to explore the possibility of other life forms and all that but its the expense and resource that worries me. I'd prefer to get our own shit in order a bit more.

yeah fixing our own planet first is way more important than nose-ing around on others
all that money could be much better spent

TurdBerglar
09-28-2013, 07:25 PM
the "earthly" problems have more to do with people just being shitheads. I don't think there's an actual way to throw money at that situation to fix it. everyone knows how to deal with a shithead it's just nobody wants to do it without feeling guilty about it.

and the trickle down of technology and ideas learned and discovered from space exploration(also war) leads to MANY advancements to everyday things.

(space) exploration and war are the pinnacle of technological achievements that sooner or later find their way to better everyday life.

checkyourprez
09-28-2013, 09:03 PM
everyone on earth right now is going to die anyways. probably within 100-115 years if you look at it. weird to think. all 7 billion or so people will all be gone.


science is for the unborn babies yo.


quite being selfish.

Bob
09-28-2013, 11:30 PM
we're absolutely neglecting our planet and most of the people on it, you aren't wrong about that, but do you think it's primarily a budgetary issue?

all the pollution, and starvation, and war, and crime, and poverty, and all the rest, do you think that all of the people responsible for these social ills are sitting there thinking "i'd stop doing this and be more socially responsible if only the governments of the world would stop allocating so much of their budgets to space exploration and give me the resources i need to stop being a shithead"?

i'll admit that i don't have the combined world government space exploration budget number handy, but if you could track it down for me, do you think that you could explain for me how it could be better spent on earth problems to solve them completely and irrevocably before we ever considered using it to explore space (an amazing thing that we have the technological capacity to do)?

i hate to be mean but goddamn

Lyman Zerga
09-29-2013, 01:26 AM
"NASA Has Spent $20 Billion On Canceled Projects" ALONE!

:rolleyes:

Dorothy Wood
09-29-2013, 08:32 AM
Money isn't even real though. Only materials, knowledge and labor are real.

TurdBerglar
09-29-2013, 09:15 AM
the wealth of knowledge gained on those cancelled projects is worth more than the lives of 99% of the population.

Guy Incognito
09-29-2013, 02:12 PM
That is such a bullshit argument. Of course it would be GREAT if society as a whole could focus on all of the problems in the world and "fix everything" but since when is that possible in any sort of practical way? And since when is humankind going to actually get together and do that? You could say that about any science, but ultimately science is bigger than ourselves, and teaches us about ourselves in its process.

Do you know what space exploration does for humanity? It is one of the most noble and intelligent things we can do with ourselves. It drives technology forward through necessity at a rate and magnitude higher than just about any other field.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/18/2881914/watch-this-neil-degrasse-tyson-nasa-future-dreams

SCIENCE GODDAMNIT :mad:



we're absolutely neglecting our planet and most of the people on it, you aren't wrong about that, but do you think it's primarily a budgetary issue?

all the pollution, and starvation, and war, and crime, and poverty, and all the rest, do you think that all of the people responsible for these social ills are sitting there thinking "i'd stop doing this and be more socially responsible if only the governments of the world would stop allocating so much of their budgets to space exploration and give me the resources i need to stop being a shithead"?

i'll admit that i don't have the combined world government space exploration budget number handy, but if you could track it down for me, do you think that you could explain for me how it could be better spent on earth problems to solve them completely and irrevocably before we ever considered using it to explore space (an amazing thing that we have the technological capacity to do)?

i hate to be mean but goddamn

I goddamn wasnt expecting all this l when i posted :eek:

I was only being honest. I wasnt totally slamming the space programme etc. All i said was that i was torn as it sometimes made me think of problems on our planet. Admittedly it wasnt the most informed post but i cant help the way i feel.

However, I watched the link Cosmo put up and took bobs comments on board about budgeting. And there were some reasons for it i hadnt thought about, maybe i will try to think differently.

I dont think its all about throwing money to solve the problem. I realise there are all kinds of other issues. I do worry that the same people who are contributing to some of the shit stuff that goes on here are also involved somewhere with some of the these experiments/missions that are going on.

It wasnt just the money, I suppose i was thinking negatively but i was worried about exactly what some people were looking for.. Maybe i watch too many movies.

Bob
09-29-2013, 02:27 PM
it just seems like an odd line to draw to me; either we can solve all of the problems on earth, forever, OR, we can explore space a little bit. i think that if we waited until all the problems on earth were fixed to start exploring space, we'd never leave, there's always going to be something going wrong.

and besides, what do rocket scientists and astronauts know about ending poverty or racism or whatever? let them work on space, it's what they're good at

Lyman Zerga
09-29-2013, 08:34 PM
everything more they find else than micro crap and water they are not gonna tell us anyway...

TurdBerglar
09-29-2013, 09:58 PM
the micro crap and water alone is astonishing!

there's evidence of streams, rivers, lakes and possibly oceans! this planet was once alive! maybe not alive in the sense of living organisms but in the sense that it wasn't just some hunk of iron whizzing around the sun!

Lyman Zerga
09-29-2013, 10:33 PM
i heard that a while ago so it is not THAT surprising

TurdBerglar
09-29-2013, 11:13 PM
debbie downer over here

Lyman Zerga
09-29-2013, 11:34 PM
well i did!

Guy Incognito
09-30-2013, 10:53 AM
it just seems like an odd line to draw to me; either we can solve all of the problems on earth, forever, OR, we can explore space a little bit. i think that if we waited until all the problems on earth were fixed to start exploring space, we'd never leave, there's always going to be something going wrong.

and besides, what do rocket scientists and astronauts know about ending poverty or racism or whatever? let them work on space, it's what they're good at

space exploration just seemed to be to so far removed from stuff and extravagant to me (before i read and watched some stuff).