where does a woman's opinion come from?

[TurdBerglar]

it's a completely different experience having a discussion/argument/conversation with a girl than it is with a guy. you can be talking to a guy and he has an interesting opinion on something. you can ask him why he has that opinion and he'll tell you point for point of how he came up with that opinion. the whole conversation with be built upon those points you share with each other. it'll turn into this in depth grand conversation.

with a woman if you press her for why she has that particular opinion she doesn't really give you an explanation. she's all like... well if you don't see it than you don't see it and that's totally fine:). well I want to see it! please help me see it! this is one of the main reasons to talk to people! and the more you press them the more frustrated and mad they get at you. then the conversation just ends.

I just wanna know why you don't like that particular thing! "just because" isn't reason enough. "just because" completely ends the conversation.

are they trying to avoid an argument? do they think im a fucking idiot or something?

[M|X|Y]

i think you're on to something... women are stupid. their opinions come from their vaginas, obviously(y)

[M|X|Y]

maybe you hang out with retards, turdstein

[TurdBerglar]

im not trying to say anyone is stupid. what im saying is that it seems like the importance of a conversation with a woman isn't about the details. so if you press them for the details they're just all like... why you do care about that?

[Adam]

What is your survey of women with no origin of their opinion? What is the ratio with same survey with guys? How actively are you listening to women compared to guys. Most of your posts to me have a misogynistic tone to them, are you sure you're not just looking for one off instances to reinforce you prejudices?

How it works http://xkcd.com/385/

[TurdBerglar]

i think there's many fundamental differences between men and women. especially on how they converse. guys are more into the details and girls are more into the overall sense or feeling of the subject. it seems like when you press a woman for more details they just don't seem to want to go in that direction. the more you press for the details the more irritated they seem to get.

im sure the same thing must happen for women when they're talking to guys and the guy is going on and on about one thing in great detail(like how a break system works on a car). and she just starts to gloss over waiting for him to stop. that's got to be just as frustrating, no?

i like to explore the differences between guys and girls because there's so much tension between men and woman as a whole. but so many people don't want to admit that there's as many differences as there really are.

[TurdBerglar]

it's like they'd rather move onto the next point of emphasis and cover more ground instead of diving deeper into one point in particular and fully dissecting it.

so when you ask them how did you come up with that opinion they don't want to fucking tell you because they'd rather keep the conversation going instead of stopping and going through how they came up with that idea.

[russhie]

You're kidding right? Men and women don't have typefied "types" of opinions based on gender. Opinions are made through experience and education (or lack thereof).

[TurdBerglar]

Im pretty sure I didn't say that

[russhie]

You asked where women's opinions come from, then outlined the differences you see between having a discussion with a man vs with a woman. You involved gender and provided a typefied response - ie. guys are all about detail and girls are about overall feelings.

[TurdBerglar]

are you saying men and woman don't have typified ways of thinking and reasoning about things? I think that's ridiculous. if that was the case men and women would be very similar and clearly they are not.

[Dorothy Wood]

My boyfriend doesn't talk details unless it's about something he's really interested in. He doesn't like to argue, but I do. Sometimes I'll disagree with him and push him to make the case for his opinion, but he's not that interested. It's actually really fucking annoying, recently I've been like "just because I have a different opinion doesn't mean I don't want to hear why you have yours." We were on a road trip this past summer and he was playing music that I really didn't like, but he loved, so I asked "why do you like this?" and had to couch it with "please don't take this as an insult"...and even though I used a disclaimer, he took it as an insult. I had to beg him to talk about why he liked the music because he was just like "it doesn't matter, I'll turn it off." So we talked about it and I learned something about him and the band and it lead to other topics, etc. etc. I still didn't like the music (some 90s indie boringness), but it was definitely more tolerable to hear when it had a story behind it and it created a little bonding moment.

Anyway, I don't think it has much to do with gender as you think. I think it's more like arguers vs. non-arguers. Perhaps women are more often conditioned to please people, so they are less argumentative. Or they are taught to be submissive to men, so they don't want to argue with you because they are self-conscious about starting conflict.

[M|X|Y]

or that having an opinion makes one arguementative and being arguementative is unfeminine?

or because they're not used to be being challenged on their opinions... men haven't done so because that might be seen as unchivalrous?

i have no data to back this up with.

[TurdBerglar]

My boyfriend doesn't talk details unless it's about something he's really interested in. He doesn't like to argue, but I do. Sometimes I'll disagree with him and push him to make the case for his opinion, but he's not that interested. It's actually really fucking annoying, recently I've been like "just because I have a different opinion doesn't mean I don't want to hear why you have yours." We were on a road trip this past summer and he was playing music that I really didn't like, but he loved, so I asked "why do you like this?" and had to couch it with "please don't take this as an insult"...and even though I used a disclaimer, he took it as an insult. I had to beg him to talk about why he liked the music because he was just like "it doesn't matter, I'll turn it off." So we talked about it and I learned something about him and the band and it lead to other topics, etc. etc. I still didn't like the music (some 90s indie boringness), but it was definitely more tolerable to hear when it had a story behind it and it created a little bonding moment.

Anyway, I don't think it has much to do with gender as you think. I think it's more like arguers vs. non-arguers. Perhaps women are more often conditioned to please people, so they are less argumentative. Or they are taught to be submissive to men, so they don't want to argue with you because they are self-conscious about starting conflict.

im definitely an arguer. I can have a full blown argument with someone that nearly dissolves into a fight and fully enjoy it. I want to prove people wrong and I want to be proven wrong by others. it seems that guys enjoy this behavior much more than females. it's a great way to learn things about yourself, the other person and everything in general. it's very frustrating dealing with a person who's timid to argue.

I always start these backhanded threads to draw people in and you always seem to know the gist of what im actually trying to say.

[TurdBerglar]

or because they're not used to be being challenged on their opinions... men haven't done so because that might be seen as unchivalrous?

I totally agree with this. men play nice with women far too often. the ways guys challenge each other is far more extreme than how they challenge females. I didn't grow up with much distinction between boys and girls in my family. I treat girls exactly the same way I treat guys and I seem to piss girls off or intimidate them or something. older women seem to love me because I treat them like an equal. but the younger ones seem to fucking hate it.

to me most guys talk to girls as if they're slightly retarded and you need to tip toe around them in order to keep them becoming unhappy. fucking bullshit.

[ProfJIM]

I'm not even going to read this thread.


A woman's opinion comes from the same place as any HUMAN's does.
Anything else is a logical fallacy: generalizing.
End of story.

[M|X|Y]

to say "experience" is as general as you can get

[afronaut]

Im pretty sure I didn't say that

Actually that is kind of exactly what you said, you just might not realize it.

The differences come from the differences in the two gender's experience of the world.

The girls you talk to probably don't want to have an in depth conversation with you because they are used to being confronted by doucheholes with bigger opinions than their brains.

In society, men are typically rewarded in some fashion for being aggressive, competitive, etc. Women are typically rewarded for being the opposite, passive. This also explain why the women you talk to seem to want to end the conversation before it turns into some kind of ideological pissing contest, while the males are more inclined to hash it out with you.

Nothing really suggests that there are any cognitive differences between men and women.

[TurdBerglar]

how is conditioned to be passive a good thing? there's a stark difference in how passive females are from earlier generations compared to later generations. women from earlier generations seem to be far less intimidated and not nearly as passive. they're much more willing and confident to make their points and debate them. is it just age? or has there been a regression on what's acceptable from a young female? young girls are treated as if they're precious and slightly incompetent compared to young boys. it continues on into early adulthood. held to slightly lower standards. this is exactly what women were fighting against in the 60's and 70's, no?

am I imagining this? I don't think so.

my aunt has gone back to school to get recertified for nursing so it's predominantly a female student body. she's appalled by how useless the young girls are she's going to school with. she's probably 20-30 years older than everyone else. is it just age? or is their a generational difference/regression? are young females being conditioned to be less assertive, confident, independent than they were 30-40 years ago?

[afronaut]

Nobody said it was a good thing. Everything you described about the way young women are treated today is a description of the way women have been treated for a very long time. Hence the social conditioning.

Furthermore, the amount of people most individuals encounter and interact with during their lifetime is probably a fraction of a single percent of all the people, overall. And the vast majority of social interaction is very much light, surface interaction - and in those types of social situations, people tend to act in a way that fits a social archetype that the individual feels applies to them. Everyone is an armchair social scientist, but none of their "data" is any worthwhile.


For instance, your observation on the difference between older and younger women. I mean, how many old women do you really interact with vs how many old women exist in total? Furthermore, an observation between older women vs younger women doesn't mean anything without any observations on older men, considering that the topic at hand is women vs men.

The difference in behavior between people of different ages is completely different.


However, you pointing out that you think older women act differently than younger women kind of refutes the idea of there being something inherent within womenkind that makes them act differently than men.


Anyway, you answered your own question. Society raises, and treats, women differently than men. People tend to act in ways they are expected to act.

[abbott]

it comes from the same place that makes women think one and a half hours is a normal time to spend getting ready in the morning. Or the other place that says one and a half hours is wrong.

[Dorothy Wood]

im definitely an arguer. I can have a full blown argument with someone that nearly dissolves into a fight and fully enjoy it. I want to prove people wrong and I want to be proven wrong by others. it seems that guys enjoy this behavior much more than females. it's a great way to learn things about yourself, the other person and everything in general. it's very frustrating dealing with a person who's timid to argue.

I always start these backhanded threads to draw people in and you always seem to know the gist of what im actually trying to say.

Yeah, I think we have a similar point of view. But you have to be careful because like these other dudes are saying, this is a somewhat misogynist view. I admit to being judgemental of women, I admit to actively disliking being around certain types of women. In a more noticeable way than I might dislike certain men. And I do ask myself why, kind of like youre doing. I don't really know yet.

I think at the heart of this point of view, I'd just like it if everyone could be cool because it doesn't seem that hard to just be considerate and active and practical and interested...it seems like that should be the norm and it's really frustrating that it seems like society is the opposite. like for real why do so many people suck so bad? regardless of gender. It's bizzare.

A really good male friend of mine and I have had some epic arguments/fights since we met 9 years ago. When I was introduced to him he was like "I don't like new people, what do you have to offer?" and I was like "well aren't you an asshole?!" and made fun of his shirt. Been buddies ever since. I think most people think he's a jerk, but he's not, it's like the jerk is on the surface and it's a test to keep the real jerks out. I kinda got off track, but Im trying to say that maybe a lot of people are just not willing to stand up for their opinions because they want to be liked more easily. Like most people would say "nevermind I'll talk to someone else", when confronted with a prick like my friend, because it doesn't feel right or good to most people to be challenged right off the bat.

Ultimately you and I seem to agree that people should be more willing to rise to the occasion when challenged.

[Dorothy Wood]

Afronaut made some solid points as well

[Yetra Flam]

A lot of men (and women) believe that a woman should NOT be argumentative or contentious at all. To many, the desire to argue is an unattractive, unfeminine quality.

Anyway, that being said, I don't have an interest anymore to have arguments. Going back to an earlier thread I made, people's different perceptions of truth and reality interest me. I like to hear about them, especially if they're "controversial" or what others deem offensive. To me, it seems pointless to try and shake other people's convictions.

[zippo]

this is a very offensive thread for women, that is, for the ones that actually have a brain. i´m thinking the reason you´ve reached this conclusion about women usually not wanting to explain themselves/have in-depth conversations is because you maybe happen to stick to the wrong crowd of poorly educated people and at the same time, maybe you just have more in common with men, making the women in your social or work life just not that "interesting".

[TurdBerglar]

I think at the heart of this point of view, I'd just like it if everyone could be cool because it doesn't seem that hard to just be considerate and active and practical and interested...

my problem is that it seems young girls aren't encouraged to be those things compared to young boys. sure guys are dicks too, but in different ways. and i think it's getting worse and worse. instead of bringing girls up to the same level playing field they're just being accommodated for. WHY? people only live up to the set of standards that's expected of them. why does no one seem to see that? am i wrong for thinking that? does that not actually happen? when i do hold any female to the same standards any male would be held to regardless of age, people are always like.... dude, you're such a dick. i grew up in a family in which the girliest girl fucking played hockey and other sports. there was barely any girliness being encouraged. there wasn't very much distinction between the boys and girls.


for our senior project a few years ago we had to do this huge group project and present it to this board of local businesses. there was one girl in our class. she didn't do a FUCKING thing related to the group work. she would just sit there and read a book in the middle of us working our asses off. she would just drop everything and pull out a fucking book. she wouldn't stay after class and help with the project. she'd always come up with some shitty excuse to leave. she didn't even show up for the presentation to the local businesses. we were given the opportunity to grade each other. everyone else gave her a decent grade. i was the only one that failed her. if she were a guy everyone else would have been.... FUCK THAT GUY. why does that happen?

[Dorothy Wood]

my problem is that it seems young girls aren't encouraged to be those things compared to young boys. sure guys are dicks too, but in different ways. and i think it's getting worse and worse. instead of bringing girls up to the same level playing field they're just being accommodated for. WHY? people only live up to the set of standards that's expected of them. why does no one seem to see that? am i wrong for thinking that? does that not actually happen? when i do hold any female to the same standards any male would be held to regardless of age, people are always like.... dude, you're such a dick. i grew up in a family in which the girliest girl fucking played hockey and other sports. there was barely any girliness being encouraged. there wasn't very much distinction between the boys and girls.


for our senior project a few years ago we had to do this huge group project and present it to this board of local businesses. there was one girl in our class. she didn't do a FUCKING thing related to the group work. she would just sit there and read a book in the middle of us working our asses off. she would just drop everything and pull out a fucking book. she wouldn't stay after class and help with the project. she'd always come up with some shitty excuse to leave. she didn't even show up for the presentation to the local businesses. we were given the opportunity to grade each other. everyone else gave her a decent grade. i was the only one that failed her. if she were a guy everyone else would have been.... FUCK THAT GUY. why does that happen?

See now that project just seems like an isolated incident. My female coworkers are very dependable. And I know lots of capable women.

As for females being accommodated for...that's a two way street. I think when people are young, they want to make themselves attractive. Women are taught either specifically or socially that being submissive is attractive. Wearing uncomfortable shoes is the norm for women, waiting to be asked out, expecting men to pay for things. And the men play along, they encourage the cycle to continue. And it's men who started the cycle through advertising.

I think in a way, me being kinda thick from a young age and having dark curly hair saved me from that cycle because I never fit the standards prescribed and I knew I never could. I was pretty depressed at times because of not fitting in, until I focused on finding people who didn't judge me on mainstream standards. And I've found that I am now surrounded by very nice people who are fun and smart.

Basically, women and men get messages from media and family that you have to be a certain way to be happy. And a lot of young people are heavily focused on finding a mate, so they go with what they see and what they're told. So they partner up and make kids and tell the kids how to get married and have kids because that's what happiness and/or success is to them. Trouble is, that's not the best system...millions of people are depressed and unsatisfied within that system.

I hope I'm being somewhat clear, I'm typing on my phone. Hard to answer these existential questions when the thoughts come faster than the typing.

[TurdBerglar]

See now that project just seems like an isolated incident. My female coworkers are very dependable. And I know lots of capable women.


I wasn't trying to make note of the girl not being dependable. I was trying to make note of how all the other guys just seem to not mind it and let it happen without incident for what I think was because she was simply a girl.

why are GUYS taught to accommodate females? you're just making shit harder for yourself!

[Dorothy Wood]

I wasn't trying to make note of the girl not being dependable. I was trying to make note of how all the other guys just seem to not mind it and let it happen without incident for what I think was because she was simply a girl.

why are GUYS taught to accommodate females? you're just making shit harder for yourself!

I'm not sure. I've been thinking lately that the superficial constructs of society actually degrade the human race based on its own rules. So like a big macho guy acquires wealth and lands a beautiful tiny submissive wife with fake boobs. And they think they are the ultimate success. And so they have kids, but the daughter is 6' and bulky and has weird boobs and is overbearing, and the son is slender and insecure and whiny. Neither of the parents would date or marry people like that, yet they produced them. So the superficial system didn't really work. This is just a made up example, but I've seen it in real life.

Uhh, so that brings me back to the point that the mainstream system of social interaction between potential romantic partners is flawed, and the flaws are perpetuated by media and tradition. I'm not sure why guys would accommodate the girl in your group, maybe they just wanted to avoid conflict...maybe they wanted to date her? Maybe they just didn't care enough to single her out as a weak link?

[M|X|Y]

I'm not sure. I've been thinking lately that the superficial constructs of society actually degrade the human race based on its own rules. So like a big macho guy acquires wealth and lands a beautiful tiny submissive wife with fake boobs. And they think they are the ultimate success. And so they have kids, but the daughter is 6' and bulky and has weird boobs and is overbearing, and the son is slender and insecure and whiny. Neither of the parents would date or marry people like that, yet they produced them. So the superficial system didn't really work. This is just a made up example, but I've seen it in real life.

I've thought this same exact thing. Awesome(y)

[afronaut]

my problem is that it seems young girls aren't encouraged to be those things compared to young boys. sure guys are dicks too, but in different ways. and i think it's getting worse and worse. instead of bringing girls up to the same level playing field they're just being accommodated for. WHY? people only live up to the set of standards that's expected of them. why does no one seem to see that? am i wrong for thinking that? does that not actually happen? when i do hold any female to the same standards any male would be held to regardless of age, people are always like.... dude, you're such a dick. i grew up in a family in which the girliest girl fucking played hockey and other sports. there was barely any girliness being encouraged. there wasn't very much distinction between the boys and girls.


Hmm, you keep on pointing out the answers to your own questions and then making statements that suggest the exact opposite.

How are people accommodating women, exactly? What are they accommodating? Is it their dainty little heads that aren't big enough to house a full intellect?

Women aren't treated differently and held to a separate standard because men are accommodating them in some way. And most people realize that people only live up to the standards that are expected of them. They are conditioned to act differently because that is how most people want women to act. That is how the church wants women to act, that is how politicians want women to act, that is how fathers and mothers want women to act, that is how the status quo want, expect, and cause women to act. Why?

Because it is important to some people to maintain a myth of male power. It is because men are similarly expected to live up to a certain standard by society, and that standard dictates that men dominate women.

Also, men like fucking women.

[TurdBerglar]

Hmm, you keep on pointing out the answers to your own questions and then making statements that suggest the exact opposite.

isn't that what I've always done since I've been here? I know what im doing and I think it's pretty effective. or im just a dick. either way im entertaining myself.

I feel that women are accommodated by society expecting less from them. if a guy is stupid and useless people kinda hate him. if girl is stupid and useless she's not hated as much. she's not discouraged as much from being stupid(just like that girl in my class). and it seems a stupid girl will get more sympathy and help for her stupidity than a stupid guy. especially so the more feminine she is(even other females seem to value more feminine females). and I think it's because people just expect less from females and for some reason value what's considered feminine these days. am I just imagining that shit? am I delusional some how? that's just one example.

look at females comics. most of them are just obnoxious twats. all like... WOOO LOOK AT ME NOT ACTING LIKE A LADY. I CUSS AND SWEAR AND TALK ABOUT GETTING LAID! where's the George carlin, louie ck, Richard pryor of lady comics? why isn't there nearly as many insightful mind boggling lady comics? why does it take less from a lady comic to be considered awesome? why is the bar lowered? or is the bar that I have set raised in my mind higher? are these mind boggling lady comics actually out there and are just being repressed/ignored?

back in the real world if a guy tells a decent joke or does something funny he'll get some chuckles. if a girl tells the same joke she's going to get a bigger response.... because people aren't use to a girl being funny? so this girl thinks she's more awesome than what she actually is. then a girl who is actually funny and insightful is considered "weird".

these are just observations that could be totally twisted and wrong. but I think this shit does happen.

[afronaut]

isn't that what I've always done since I've been here? I know what im doing and I think it's pretty effective. or im just a dick. either way im entertaining myself.

I feel that women are accommodated by society expecting less from them. if a guy is stupid and useless people kinda hate him. if girl is stupid and useless she's not hated as much. she's not discouraged as much from being stupid(just like that girl in my class). and it seems a stupid girl will get more sympathy and help for her stupidity than a stupid guy. especially so the more feminine she is(even other females seem to value more feminine females).

They'll just be considered a "typical blonde," or a "bimbo," or just another example of wimmins bein dum. That's not accommodation, that's degradation.

and I think it's because people just expect less from females and for some reason value what's considered feminine these days.
They expect less from women because they view women as being less, or different, than men.

look at females comics. most of them are just obnoxious twats. all like... WOOO LOOK AT ME NOT ACTING LIKE A LADY. I CUSS AND SWEAR AND TALK ABOUT GETTING LAID! where's the George carlin, louie ck, Richard pryor of lady comics? why isn't there nearly as many insightful mind boggling lady comics? why does it take less from a lady comic to be considered awesome? why is the bar lowered? or is the bar that I have set raised in my mind higher? are these mind boggling lady comics actually out there and are just being repressed/ignored?
I think this is where you've really gone and mixed reality with your own personal perspective. Women comics get no respect. Really, they don't. Just like female poets and authors only a handful of decades ago. You said it yourself: where are the female Carlin, CK, and Pryors? If it supposedly takes less for a lady comic to be considered awesome, you would be able to name a handful of lady Carlins. Instead what do we have? Lisa Lampenelli? Sarah Silverman? DandyFop??? Are they really that much more mindless, unfunny, or crass than your typical "Comedy Central Presents" fodder? I mean, what about Dane Cook? Carrot Top? Are there REALLY that many awesome male comics?

Hell no.

The reason why there traditionally haven't been that many female comics is for the same reason there traditionally haven't been many female doctors and lawyers.

back in the real world if a guy tells a decent joke or does something funny he'll get some chuckles. if a girl tells the same joke she's going to get a bigger response.... because people aren't use to a girl being funny?

Also, men like fucking women.

so this girl thinks she's more awesome than what she actually is. then a girl who is actually funny and insightful is considered "weird".

Probably because people seem to think that women are inherently unfunny, kind of like you are suggesting.

Again, it is like in the Victorian era, where a female author worthy of any respect would considered to be mannish, or even partly male.

these are just observations that could be totally twisted and wrong.
lol probly.

[TurdBerglar]

women comics not getting any respect is exactly what im saying. when I suggested that there doesn't seem to be any lady comics at the level of CK, Carlin and Pryor it's because I feel girls don't feel the need to reach that level because they're being told that they ARE at that level when they are clearly not. so they don't try any harder. that's how I feel they are being accommodated. their egos and feelings are being accommodated and it gives them a false sense of reality. maybe accommodation is the wrong word? then when a lady comic is at that level she's considered not ladylike and people just think she's a weirdo and she doesn't get any respect so you never hear of her.


if carrot top and dane cook were females they'd be more highly regarded and yet they're mediocre. if CK were a lady everyone would think she's a fucking weirdo and would have never made it.

[russhie]

women comics not getting any respect is exactly what im saying. when I suggested that there doesn't seem to be any lady comics at the level of CK, Carlin and Pryor it's because I feel girls don't feel the need to reach that level because they're being told that they ARE at that level when they are clearly not. so they don't try any harder.

You say you enjoy winding people up, but perhaps that's why you don't tend to have intelligent conversations with women - they probably don't want to engage with you.

Are you trying to say that women are held to a different standard to men, resulting in a substandard performance when the two genders are compared? There is a reason positions of power - across business, politics, entertainment - are dominated by men, and this is because it's historically always been so. Women often have to work HARDER to reach the same career heights as men because they feel they have to prove themselves. They are not accommodated or held to a lesser standard just because they are women.

[Dorothy Wood]

Comedians are so varied, the people you're talking about are like one in a million talents, they transcend gender. There aren't that many female stand ups because men are more likely to crave independence and control. There are women doing exceptionally well in stand up or spoken word, and in collaborative comedy like tv and movies, live performance. The model for stand up is inherently male anyway, so it just keeps being like that. But women like to laugh and I think the market will ultimately have to respond. There are subversive ladies out there, a lot of people reject the Chelsea lately or whatever her name is type of stuff.

[TurdBerglar]

lets say there's two young females. all one of them does is go clubbing/partying and tanning and hangs out with friends. all that bullshit. she doesn't really do anything else. has no deep interests or hobbies nor is she particularly good at anything. she's very submissive and pleasant. no one really bats an eye because it's just acceptable for some reason. now lets take another young female. she does shit. maybe she writes short stories. maybe she plays the drums. maybe likes to build things. be creative/active somehow. does her own thing. she just does things that builds the mind and personality. she's assertive and does shit. these two people are at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum. the second girl, more often than not is going to be considered a weirdo!

people will more likely not want to associated with the second girl more so than the other chick that doesn't do a damn thing and provides nothing. that first girl will probably be rewarded by others more so than the second girl that's actually a real individual with helpful qualities. that second girl is gonna have to fight more for herself. that first girl will be accommodated. people will put up with her shortcomings because her personality is more acceptable for some reason. people want her around more so than the second girl even though the first girl isn't nearly as useful as the second girl. girls are discouraged to be that second girl while guys are encouraged to be the same guy as the second girl.

this is getting really confusing.

I feel that useless/uninteresting guy is hated more than that useless/uninteresting girl. and that USEFULL/INTERESTING girl is hated more than that useful/interesting guy. it's so fucking strange!

[Dorothy Wood]

lets say there's two young females. all one of them does is go clubbing/partying and tanning and hangs out with friends. all that bullshit. she doesn't really do anything else. has no deep interests or hobbies nor is she particularly good at anything. she's very submissive and pleasant. no one really bats an eye because it's just acceptable for some reason. now lets take another young female. she does shit. maybe she writes short stories. maybe she plays the drums. maybe likes to build things. be creative/active somehow. does her own thing. she just does things that builds the mind and personality. she's assertive and does shit. these two people are at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum. the second girl, more often than not is going to be considered a weirdo!

people will more likely not want to associated with the second girl more so than the other chick that doesn't do a damn thing and provides nothing. that first girl will probably be rewarded by others more so than the second girl that's actually a real individual with helpful qualities. that second girl is gonna have to fight more for herself. that first girl will be accommodated. people will put up with her shortcomings because her personality is more acceptable for some reason. people want her around more so than the second girl even though the first girl isn't nearly as useful as the second girl. girls are discouraged to be that second girl while guys are encouraged to be the same guy as the second girl.

this is getting really confusing.

I feel that useless/uninteresting guy is hated more than that useless/uninteresting girl. and that USEFULL/INTERESTING girl is hated more than that useful/interesting guy. it's so fucking strange!

I think what you're saying is true, but changing. As far as romantic relationships go, a more blank slate everywoman will probably get more dates and get married earlier. I have very awesome female friends who are perpetually single and nobody can figure out why. I think it's because they are too intimidating, they think it's because maybe they don't look exactly perfect. But they just keep getting better looking and more fit and fashionable, plus experienced in life and really fun. And anyway, now that we're all getting older, the chicks who married early are starting to look a little haggard. (Not that it's all about looks, but women are taught that it's easier to get guys if you are conventionally attractive...so even when the haggard women get divorced, they'll join a gym and get a makeover, yadda yadda.)

I remember when I was 22 and my friend the same age got married. I was a bridesmaid and I was single and didn't date a whole lot, and she was like, "oh, you'll find someone some day" *pat pat*. And I was like, "yeah, thanks." And now she's all fat and has two kids and looks like she's in her 40's. And she posts pictures on facebook all the time every time she does something social...like, "oh it was so great to have people over for game night", and they're shitty camera pics and everyone's all unhealthy-looking and eating terrible food and doing boring things. And they act like they're the epitome of life. I'm being harsh because they are in ministry and very truly tell people that they are living as God wants them to...in shitty sweatshop walmart clothes, eating fast food.

But I digress.

I really came here to point this dumb fuck out as an example of why submissive women are valued more...because they are being indoctrinated: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/11/christian-speaker-tells-public-school-students-how-to-be-dateable/281488/

His stupid "rules" for being dateable:
rule#6: Be mysterious. Dateable girls know how to shut up. They don’t monopolize the conversation. They don’t tell everyone everything about themselves. They save some for later. They listen more than they gab.

http://www.rudateable.com/cool_rules.php

[Lyman Zerga]

sometimes emotions play a too big role in building up my opinions and sometimes it is hard to back up those opinions cause emotions are hard to explain

[TurdBerglar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFpe3Up9T_g

[zippo]

" And now she's all fat and has two kids and looks like she's in her 40's. And she posts pictures on facebook all the time every time she does something social...like, "oh it was so great to have people over for game night", and they're shitty camera pics and everyone's all unhealthy-looking and eating terrible food and doing boring things. And they act like they're the epitome of life. I'm being harsh because they are in ministry and very truly tell people that they are living as God wants them to...in shitty sweatshop walmart clothes, eating fast food.

you know, i don´t see anything wrong with people being all fat, with 2 kids, looking like they´re 40 at a younger age, excited for game nights, taking shitty camera pics, eating bad food sometimes, doing boring things, acting like they´re in the epitome of life and saying they´re living as God wants them to in walmart clothing and eating fast food.
not being sarcastic, what´s wrong with all that

[Dorothy Wood]

you know, i don´t see anything wrong with people being all fat, with 2 kids, looking like they´re 40 at a younger age, excited for game nights, taking shitty camera pics, eating bad food sometimes, doing boring things, acting like they´re in the epitome of life and saying they´re living as God wants them to in walmart clothing and eating fast food.
not being sarcastic, what´s wrong with all that

It's wrong because they're celebrating mediocrity and exhibiting unhealthy behavior. They claim to serve god and demand that everyone else serve god in the way they do. They actively support laws that take away people's rights. They eat bad every day. The husband is a bully. I'm being harsh because they are bad people pretending to be good and righteous. They also think they can heal people.

I mentioned her being fat because she was always thin and her parents are thin and I think it's dumb that she wants to control everyone else's behavior when she can't control her own.

I'm naturally fat by the way, I'm not fat bashing, I'm behavior bashing. As for Walmart, I think if someone claims to be truly Christian and care about every life, they wouldnt shop there.