we should talk about how good the production on HSCp2 was.

[MCScoobyT]

we should talk about how good the production on HSCp2 was.
I thought is was really good. Best production they did by themselves, right...

[Michelle*s_Farm]

we should talk about how good the production on HSCp2 was.
I thought is was really good. Best production they did by themselves, right...

Good thread. Enjoyed the production of HSCp2 a lot, although I think they had some help at various levels, no? I know little about music production but I think there were others (i.e., not necessarily band members some famous others not so famous unsung heroes) involved in the studio / CD mixing stage helping out in various ways.

[Guy Incognito]

erm.. didnt the french geezer Zdar remix lots of it?

there's deffo a couple of tunes where his intervention is very prominent (TMR for a start)

[Michelle*s_Farm]

erm.. didnt the french geezer Zdar remix lots of it?

there's deffo a couple of tunes where his intervention is very prominent (TMR for a start)

Yes, Zdar the "Crazy Frenchman", also people like Andre Kelman worked on the LP. See this excellent article below on the ins and outs of production for HSCpt2.

Link (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug11/articles/it-0811.htm)

[Kid Presentable]

I feel like the TMR synth is a beastie influence. Re-mixing and remixing aren't the same. I wish McDuff would speak on it because he knows this realm.

[cj hood]

HSC2 is perfect.

[abbott]

HSCp2 was a real gift.

[MCScoobyT]

When I say by 'themselves' I mean out for the records that they are listed as producers (not rick, mario, or the dust bros.) this one had the best production.
I know a lot of people where around, and Zdar cleaned it up, but Beastie Boys where the soul producers.

[MCScoobyT]

speaking or HSCp2 has anyone found or complied a download of all the Sample Sources?? I would love to check that...
For all their other records fans have dug and complied a Sample Sources collection/playlist if you will. What about HSCp2?

[Brother McDuff]

I feel like the TMR synth is a beastie influence. Re-mixing and remixing aren't the same. I wish McDuff would speak on it because he knows this realm.

uh-oh, now look what you made me do.... :o

yeah, producing is a different beast than mixing and what 'remixing' has come to be known as. cats like zdar, andre, blaney, and mario's left brain are in charge of sonic quality, making all of the elements of the beat and vocals work together. while mixing is a highly creative process (an artform unto itself) its more about efficiency and putting together a puzzle of sounds. the science of their realm is a little more concrete than the producer's. this is mixing.

now guys like rick, ez mike, giz, the bboys, and mario's right brain deal more in the efficiency of creativity. they participate in (or at times spearhead) the creation of beats, they oversee recording sessions/performances, tighten up arrangements, and pretty much just make sure the tracks are rock solid from a material standpoint before reaching the mix engineer. they tame the artist's creative prowess just enough to make it fit into a comprehensive format. its not uncommon for producers to engineer though (Mario and The Dust Brothers are sterling examples) and vice versa. in hip-hop especially, any producer worth their salt should know at least the fundamentals of mixing; vice versa helps, but isn't quite as crucial.

the real headfuck amongst all of this is how the term 'producer' is thrown around these days. there is a clear-cut difference between a 'beatmaker' and 'producer' IMO, and certainly when comparing the 2 outside the confines of hip-hop. many beatmakers fancy themselves producers when really they don't understand the first thing about producing a vocal, or managing a project budget, or seeking the right studio, engineer, and players, etc. But I digress...

remixing, as we've come to recognize it in urban music, is just putting the vocals over a new beat, or reimagining the current beat. remixing is alot more production than mixing, and i say this because the point of a remix in these terms is to change the music itself. plus the culture of remixing more often than not involves a very casual mix. transversely, a good example of remixing that favors mixing over production would be a 'dub', a la vintage reggae dubs or 'dub the mic', to reference something closer to home. to compare a remixer to a full-fledged producer though would be an injustice to a legit producer, seeing as a producer is juggling many more balls, people, responsibilities, etc. when orchestrating a project; plus it takes much more experience and skill to successfully execute an entire worthwhile album as sole producer. this isn't to discredit some of the remarkable remix talents out there, but we all know that any 14 yr old with a free version of fruity loops or reason can "remix" a song.

re-mixing in this case simply means zdar gave the album a brand new mixdown via volumes, equalization, dynamic compression, panning, insidious use of effects, etc., rather than reimagining the entire beat's arrangement or offering up a brand new beat altogether. im sure he offered up plenty of opinions whilst re-mixing hsc given his experience as a producer, and im sure this played into what drew the beasties' to him in the first place, but a little production advice here and there amongst mixdown is a far cry from a full-blown production credit.

now, its very common for mixing engineers to offer their opinions or little production flares to their mixes too, so its safe to say they participate in the production a bit, though the producers often oversee the mixdown as well, which makes them involved in the mixing aspect too. there are so many blurred lines when it comes to the production aspect of an album, and it varies greatly from project to project, but i would think if zdar had a major hand in the production of HSC (or even just TMR) that it would be clearly documented in the liners, especially considering the beasties are very fair in giving credit where credit's due.



~fin~

[pm0ney]

As a standalone piece I think it's their best since Check Your Head. Phenomenal album.

[Micodin]

I prefer HN sonically than HSCP2.

That being said... HSCP2 sounds the best on vinyl. The digital version sounds a bit over cooked.

But that's just me. I'm a dick.

[Brass Monk]

the real headfuck amongst all of this is how the term 'producer' is thrown around these days. there is a clear-cut difference between a 'beatmaker' and 'producer' IMO, and certainly when comparing the 2 outside the confines of hip-hop. many beatmakers fancy themselves producers when really they don't understand the first thing about producing a vocal, or managing a project budget, or seeking the right studio, engineer, and players, etc. But I digress...


~fin~

Very interesting. I think you're right in that more casual fans, like myself, mistakingly see a producer and a beatmaker as the same thing. I know that because of this I've often scoffed at artists like Eminem and Jay-Z in the past when they have claimed production credit. I've met a lot of their respective die hard fans and they often boast of their histories as producers (which I know also in these fan's minds means beatmakers). But now I see that when artists like Eminem and Jay Z are claiming production credit they aren't lying, just benefiting from fan ignorance in some ways. Now I also see they could probably do a number of things you say constitutes production/ being a producer.

[Lyman Zerga]

my favorite beastie album.

[MCScoobyT]

I prefer HN sonically than HSCP2.

That being said... HSCP2 sounds the best on vinyl. The digital version sounds a bit over cooked.

But that's just me. I'm a dick.

word, truth and yes we all know... but mario produced HN

[Micodin]

mario produced HN

Actually, the Beastie Boys and Mario Caldato, Jr. share producing credits on HN.

That being said, I prefer HN sonically than HSCP2. It has Adrock's SP1200 all over it. It's just a warm sounding record. HSCP2 is lacking that warm analog sound that Mario's magic touch provided. I find listening to HSCP2 on vinyl gives it a nicer sound.

[MCScoobyT]

schematics, ignoring the point of the thread, being a dick (bagging up bags of dicks)... you got it. Let's say it another way. No one but the Beastie Boys are credited for producing HSC
come on man... I want to be your friend, stop making it so hard

[3stooges]

I think you pretty much covered everything (how could you not with that big a post) and I agree with it all.

I'll just add one thing, as far as "beatmaker" vs. "producer"....I know what you mean about the distinction between beatmaker and producer....one is more focused on the end result (producer), whereas one is more focused on the original creative part (beatmaker).....but I do feel that a beatmaker is a producer. They certainly deserve a production credit if they made the beat. They may not be the main producer or "overseer" of the song, but they are definitely one of the producers. If it's just drum programming or something, I might not consider that production (though I could in cases), but if you are the one that created the track, to me that's production. Whether they are given a credit or not I feel they deserve it.

Yes the "producer" would be the one overseeing and making the final decisions on how everything's gonna go. But I don't necessarily always respect it as the most creative aspect of the process. Sometimes they don't do anything but go in the studio for a little while and listen, and then say "Why don't you do this" or "why don't you do that", and then they leave. And when the record comes out they are listed as the producer.

The other thing that's funny is song production credits vs album production credit. You may be the producer of the album, but you didn't really produce any of the songs. You just co-signed on everything basically and said "Yeah, that's good, let's put it out." Which I guess gets credited usually as "Executive Producer", but not always, sometimes it is just an album credit - "Produced By ..." When really, the individual producers on the individual songs were doing the nitty gritty work. This is not saying you didn't have a hand in the productions, it's just, your role may not have been as involved as others.

It is frequently all very blurry lines as you said, and the way people credit these things in the notes is not always clear. Two people may use the same expression and mean two different things.






uh-oh, now look what you made me do.... :o

yeah, producing is a different beast than mixing and what 'remixing' has come to be known as. cats like zdar, andre, blaney, and mario's left brain are in charge of sonic quality, making all of the elements of the beat and vocals work together. while mixing is a highly creative process (an artform unto itself) its more about efficiency and putting together a puzzle of sounds. the science of their realm is a little more concrete than the producer's. this is mixing.

now guys like rick, ez mike, giz, the bboys, and mario's right brain deal more in the efficiency of creativity. they participate in (or at times spearhead) the creation of beats, they oversee recording sessions/performances, tighten up arrangements, and pretty much just make sure the tracks are rock solid from a material standpoint before reaching the mix engineer. they tame the artist's creative prowess just enough to make it fit into a comprehensive format. its not uncommon for producers to engineer though (Mario and The Dust Brothers are sterling examples) and vice versa. in hip-hop especially, any producer worth their salt should know at least the fundamentals of mixing; vice versa helps, but isn't quite as crucial.

the real headfuck amongst all of this is how the term 'producer' is thrown around these days. there is a clear-cut difference between a 'beatmaker' and 'producer' IMO, and certainly when comparing the 2 outside the confines of hip-hop. many beatmakers fancy themselves producers when really they don't understand the first thing about producing a vocal, or managing a project budget, or seeking the right studio, engineer, and players, etc. But I digress...

remixing, as we've come to recognize it in urban music, is just putting the vocals over a new beat, or reimagining the current beat. remixing is alot more production than mixing, and i say this because the point of a remix in these terms is to change the music itself. plus the culture of remixing more often than not involves a very casual mix. transversely, a good example of remixing that favors mixing over production would be a 'dub', a la vintage reggae dubs or 'dub the mic', to reference something closer to home. to compare a remixer to a full-fledged producer though would be an injustice to a legit producer, seeing as a producer is juggling many more balls, people, responsibilities, etc. when orchestrating a project; plus it takes much more experience and skill to successfully execute an entire worthwhile album as sole producer. this isn't to discredit some of the remarkable remix talents out there, but we all know that any 14 yr old with a free version of fruity loops or reason can "remix" a song.

re-mixing in this case simply means zdar gave the album a brand new mixdown via volumes, equalization, dynamic compression, panning, insidious use of effects, etc., rather than reimagining the entire beat's arrangement or offering up a brand new beat altogether. im sure he offered up plenty of opinions whilst re-mixing hsc given his experience as a producer, and im sure this played into what drew the beasties' to him in the first place, but a little production advice here and there amongst mixdown is a far cry from a full-blown production credit.

now, its very common for mixing engineers to offer their opinions or little production flares to their mixes too, so its safe to say they participate in the production a bit, though the producers often oversee the mixdown as well, which makes them involved in the mixing aspect too. there are so many blurred lines when it comes to the production aspect of an album, and it varies greatly from project to project, but i would think if zdar had a major hand in the production of HSC (or even just TMR) that it would be clearly documented in the liners, especially considering the beasties are very fair in giving credit where credit's due.



~fin~

[pm0ney]

I just went back and listened to it again. I'm going to have to recant my previous post and put it a peg below Hello Nasty and a peg above Ill Communication for my own personal taste.

[MCScoobyT]

cool but out of the albums they produced all by themselves... my list goes. 1) HSC 2) TMU 3)TT5B

[JoLovesMCA]

I don’t know have half of the musical knowledge some of you do when it comes to beat making, remixing and producing records, but when I listen to HSC I think it is their best work to date. If I want the experience maybe I would choose Hello Nasty, but there isn’t a song on Hot Sauce that isn’t a perfect Beastie Boy song.

[brooklyndust]

speaking or HSCp2 has anyone found or complied a download of all the Sample Sources?? I would love to check that...
For all their other records fans have dug and complied a Sample Sources collection/playlist if you will. What about HSCp2?

No. I've asked this question many times and no one has been able to come up with anything or has been very interested. The only sample I could find is the bar-kays holly ghost one in funky donkey, and even that one might just be an interpolation rather than a sample.

[Mr. Smacktackle]

Yes, Zdar the "Crazy Frenchman", also people like Andre Kelman worked on the LP. See this excellent article below on the ins and outs of production for HSCpt2.

Link (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug11/articles/it-0811.htm)

thanks for that link. very interesting article.

it's interesting that zdar says the mastering was a bit too hot for his taste. i personally also think the record could have bit more air. can't help but wonder now how would it all sound with less limiting.

i gotta say that delay on adrock's 'I' (take the cake) on tmr is one of my favorite moments, prob listened to it a thousand times. soo effective and raw! you can definitely feel the energy of the mix-man.

[easy 3]

Yes, Zdar the "Crazy Frenchman", also people like Andre Kelman worked on the LP. See this excellent article below on the ins and outs of production for HSCpt2.

Link (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug11/articles/it-0811.htm)

Yeah, thanks for the link M*sF. Loads of interesting info in there. (y)(y) Listening to stuff like Non-Stop Disco Powerpack, you can really hear the movement and emphasis that Zdar talks about bringing to the mix through attentive automation and shit. It jumps out the speakers compared to a lot of straight, modern, pop production.

One thing I would say in appreciation of HSC2 production, having DJed Multilateral Nuclear Disarmament out a handful of times, it has had a very positive response on nearly every occasion. People tend to ask, approvingly, 'What's playing?', and sometimes even seem surprised that it's the Beasties, somehow.

[MCScoobyT]

No. I've asked this question many times and no one has been able to come up with anything or has been very interested. The only sample I could find is the bar-kays holly ghost one in funky donkey, and even that one might just be an interpolation rather than a sample.

MSN contains a sample from 'I'm Suped (Got It Like That)' by Pump

[Michelle*s_Farm]

thanks for that link. very interesting article.

it's interesting that zdar says the mastering was a bit too hot for his taste. i personally also think the record could have bit more air. can't help but wonder now how would it all sound with less limiting.

i gotta say that delay on adrock's 'I' (take the cake) on tmr is one of my favorite moments, prob listened to it a thousand times. soo effective and raw! you can definitely feel the energy of the mix-man.

You are welcome. It is an interesting point and it appears this is what Adam Yauch wanted when he talked to Zdar according to the article:

Zdar explains further: "When Adam Yauch first called me, he said that he'd been listening to the Phoenix album, and liked that it sounded really solid, and at the same time very wide and airy. That's exactly what I like to get in my mixes: lots of bass, lots of width and lots of air. He also said that the album was not tiring to listen to, whereas many records since 1995 and the loudness wars are very tiring to listen to..."

Clipping and digital harshness get me down as well. Heard that the Chili Peppers were the worst offenders, although that may no longer be the case. I want a smooth natural sound that makes me want to turn it up -- the crankability factor needs to be there.

[JohnnyChavello]

MSN contains a sample from 'I'm Suped (Got It Like That)' by Pump

Yeah, but can you prove to me that that song exists? I'm not aware of anyone locating a single one of the "samples" that are actually listed in the liner notes. I'm not saying there aren't any (there might not be), but the credits are meant to be a joke.

[MCScoobyT]

Yeah, but can you prove to me that that song exists? I'm not aware of anyone locating a single one of the "samples" that are actually listed in the liner notes. I'm not saying there aren't any (there might not be), but the credits are meant to be a joke.

Good to know. You prompted me to read all about it and thus now I know why there is not a sample source collection.
It seems kinda lame for a joke (especially since there was a real band called Pump), hopefully there is more to it, but it seems like if there was we would have heard about it by now.

If one was to go make a shitty band with one of those names and make a song tilted same as the one listed for said band, could they somehow add a punchline to this shit and get retro active royalties? :rolleyes:

[Lyman Zerga]

I don’t know have half of the musical knowledge some of you do when it comes to beat making, remixing and producing records, but when I listen to HSC I think it is their best work to date. If I want the experience maybe I would choose Hello Nasty, but there isn’t a song on Hot Sauce that isn’t a perfect Beastie Boy song.

same here, i usually just pay attention to the end result and either i like it or not
im like that with every artist/album

[Kid Presentable]

erm.. didnt the french geezer Zdar remix lots of it?

there's deffo a couple of tunes where his intervention is very prominent (TMR for a start)

I fucked up. You just meant the mix on TMR was different, and weren't referring to the synth thingo. Oops sorry man

[JohnnyChavello]

Good to know. You prompted me to read all about it and thus now I know why there is not a sample source collection.
It seems kinda lame for a joke (especially since there was a real band called Pump), hopefully there is more to it, but it seems like if there was we would have heard about it by now.

If one was to go make a shitty band with one of those names and make a song tilted same as the one listed for said band, could they somehow add a punchline to this shit and get retro active royalties? :rolleyes:

Ha, no. In the end, they'd still have to show that their song was sampled unfairly, so just creating the name and song wouldn't do it.

I have no idea why they included them in this way, or why there isn't more information about what's actually going on, but they added footnotes to the TT5B lyric sheet, so it may just be an inside joke - they've gotten so obscure, they're now sampling non-existent bands.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Yeah, but can you prove to me that that song exists? I'm not aware of anyone locating a single one of the "samples" that are actually listed in the liner notes. I'm not saying there aren't any (there might not be), but the credits are meant to be a joke.

Pump existed. It would be the type of thing they would sample from their
record or tape collection. Would like to hear the original track based on the little I have hear of Pump (http://boomkat.com/vinyl/453162-pump-the-decoration-of-the-duma-continues).

Two other links to Pump's music below.

Sombrero Fallout (http://plaguerecordings.bandcamp.com/album/sombrero-fallout)
The Decoration of the Duma Continues (http://forcednostalgia.com/FN003)

The track in question could be much older 1981 and/or distributed by cassette tape.

[JohnnyChavello]

A band named Pump may have existed, but is there any record online or anywhere else of that band ever recording a song called "I'm Suped (Got it Like That)." It's a one word name - they may have thought they coined it for this fictional sample. It seems strange, given the amount of information that's available online, that none of these songs has been definitively proven to exist. I tried searching bands, song names, record labels, etc. and they were all dead ends.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

A band named Pump may have existed, but is there any record online or anywhere else of that band ever recording a song called "I'm Suped (Got it Like That)." It's a one word name - they may have thought they coined it for this fictional sample. It seems strange, given the amount of information that's available online, that none of these songs has been definitively proven to exist. I tried searching bands, song names, record labels, etc. and they were all dead ends.

It is interesting that so many independent cassettes and bedroom tapes from the 80's are not archived -- they should be. Most of Pump's recordings are not online (they were traded via cassette tape). For example Pump would share their bedroom tapes among friends (e.g., probably collectors like Thurston Moore, the Adams or Michael Diamond with links to UK collectors). My guess is that one of them got hold of a tape or two from someone in the UK. Since it was not officially released on a record label sampling seems fair as long as you cite the band and name of the song. Wish I could hear the original from Pump. I do not think the Beasties would make this up. I guess it could be a name of an unknown side project of theirs. Pretty sure it is not due to the nature of the band Pump.

[JohnnyChavello]

It is interesting that so many independent cassettes and bedroom tapes from the 80's are not archived -- they should be. Most of Pump's recordings are not online (they were traded via cassette tape). For example Pump would share their bedroom tapes among friends (e.g., probably collectors like Thurston Moore, the Adams or Michael Diamond with links to UK collectors). My guess is that one of them got hold of a tape or two from someone in the UK. Since it was not officially released on a record label sampling seems fair as long as you cite the band and name of the song. Wish I could hear the original from Pump. I do not think the Beasties would make this up. I guess it could be a name of an unknown side project of theirs. Pretty sure it is not due to the nature of the band Pump.

I'll agree that this may be a possibility, but all of the samples? Nobody has been able to track down a single one of these songs.

[Brother McDuff]

sonically i feel hsc was a little too harsh in the mids and too bassy. now dont get me wrong, i love me some bass, but not when i have to worry about it or make sure when i throw the album on that im not gonna blow the system out. hsc was one of those records that u had to be careful with like that. and the crunch was too middy. the distorted vox for instance on cyh and ic were nice and smooth, pleasing. on hsc they are a little harsh and imposing.

i think alot of the volume and harshness offenders are guilty due to their ears failing them eventually over time. metallica has been the biggest culprit, the peppers too, and hsc imo is possibly my least fav sonically. too many years on the road and in the studio perhaps. im familar with the phoenix record too, and think it was far better sounding (albeit a totally different sound), which makes me think it was the beasties who allowed it to get a little out of hand on the mastering.

just my two cents at least

[brooklyndust]

It is interesting that so many independent cassettes and bedroom tapes from the 80's are not archived -- they should be. Most of Pump's recordings are not online (they were traded via cassette tape). For example Pump would share their bedroom tapes among friends (e.g., probably collectors like Thurston Moore, the Adams or Michael Diamond with links to UK collectors). My guess is that one of them got hold of a tape or two from someone in the UK. Since it was not officially released on a record label sampling seems fair as long as you cite the band and name of the song. Wish I could hear the original from Pump. I do not think the Beasties would make this up. I guess it could be a name of an unknown side project of theirs. Pretty sure it is not due to the nature of the band Pump.

Yeah, but when they released the cassette tapes they were known as MFH not Pump, and there is no evidence of them ever being on "Ohio Records."

Like JohnnyChavello, I've periodically searched since HSC2 was released and have not been able to find one of the artists they've sampled.

Sites like allmusic, discogs and even independent blogs are pretty extensive. I've been able to find information on local small town bands, so I find it hard to believe that we can't find any of these artists, songs, or record labels.

I still believe that there are not any major samples on the record. It's possible that everything could have been done with live instruments and computer programs like pro-tools.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

I'll agree that this may be a possibility, but all of the samples? Nobody has been able to track down a single one of these songs.

A mystery, and an interesting one. Let me do some digging, you might be onto to something important (e.g., sampling choices were restricted in a particular way).

[Michelle*s_Farm]

I decided to look at Funky Donkey's samples. They appear to be:

"Twin City Hustler" by The Diamels
"(It's Called) Love Boat" by Pretty Ron and the Love Boat Crew

I think we need to expand the search or dig seriously deep as I am coming up empty here. If anyone knows anyone over at WFMU they might be able to help.

Is it possible that these samples are so rare as they have left no trace on the internet? Or are these samples from some source that does not leave a trace in music (e.g., tape from local band or friend, Bill Harper's ultra rarity collection, TV show, film or radio)?

Seriously stumped. The fact that there are listed samples does mean the band was trying to tell us something. Surprised no one has figured out what that is yet.

[MCScoobyT]

A band named Pump may have existed, but is there any record online or anywhere else of that band ever recording a song called "I'm Suped (Got it Like That)." It's a one word name - they may have thought they coined it for this fictional sample. It seems strange, given the amount of information that's available online, that none of these songs has been definitively proven to exist. I tried searching bands, song names, record labels, etc. and they were all dead ends.

Since I am lazy I would say ask the current band Pump, maybe then Ad-Rock via twitter or if anyone sees him in-person (probably won't get much her), then maybe Jim Shearer, he seems pretty good about figuring this type of Beastie stuff out or at least talking about it enough until he meets and interviews someone with some insight. Or maybe an e-mail to one of the real record labels on that list (are there any?).
But I am lazy and give up

[JohnnyChavello]

If anyone knows anyone over at WFMU they might be able to help.

Why WFMU?

[Kid Presentable]

They sampled themselves singing on Long Burn. It's not the Black Merda song of the same name - not at all the same.

Doesn't Pretty Ron and the Love Boat Crew sound like something they'd makeup?

[3stooges]

I think you guys are all speculating about something that's not real. If these samples were real there would be at least a small trace of info on the internet.

The boys recorded themselves and sampled from that, like they have been doing forever. Putting these fake sample credits in the notes is just another one of their little inside jokes.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

They sampled themselves singing on Long Burn. It's not the Black Merda song of the same name - not at all the same.

Doesn't Pretty Ron and the Love Boat Crew sound like something they'd makeup?

Ron was Jimmy Walker's character in a Love Boat series. Not sure whether or not he was called Pretty Ron in one of the episodes though. That is what got me thinking that they sampled TV shows in addition to film (there is a sample from a film presumably in the Bill Harper Collection). The film sample should be relatively easy to verify (time consuming though).

[Michelle*s_Farm]

I think you guys are all speculating about something that's not real. If these samples were real there would be at least a small trace of info on the internet.

The boys recorded themselves and sampled from that, like they have been doing forever. Putting these fake sample credits in the notes is just another one of their little inside jokes.

I think it is a viable hypothesis that there were no external samples. However, you will have to double check each one before confirmation. The Bill Harper Collection sample could be real.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Why WFMU?

I am sort of joking as I doubt they have time to research each of these sample claims (although maybe they do!). WFMU has the largest collection of obscure sounds and albums I can think of, not to mention their music folks have deep knowledge of the local scenes in NJ and NYC (and surrounding areas). Ad-Rock hangs out there so I can see him getting his hands on some of their golden rare goodies from the vaults. Or at least picks up some things at their annual record fair.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Since I am lazy I would say ask the current band Pump, maybe then Ad-Rock via twitter or if anyone sees him in-person (probably won't get much her), then maybe Jim Shearer, he seems pretty good about figuring this type of Beastie stuff out or at least talking about it enough until he meets and interviews someone with some insight. Or maybe an e-mail to one of the real record labels on that list (are there any?).
But I am lazy and give up

Those are great ideas for a 'lazy' person.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

I find it very suspicious that the claims below seem false as there was no feature film named Brutus with a soundtrack (albeit based on my searches). I suppose it is possible that a film that never made it to IMDB exists and that Yauch got his hands on it -- but almost everything gets into IMDB.

I think the hypothesis that there is not one external sample on HSCpt2 is more than viable. It sends a statement of skill that the band could fake these samples and that a hip hop record which appears to have been heavily sampling diverse sounds did not sample external to the band themselves. Funny that a lot of people (i.e., journalists and fan sites) have been duped on this one. I like it a lot if it is true.

Et tu, Brute?

THE BILL HARPER COLLECTION Contains material from “The Coming of the Triumverate” from the motion picture soundtrack of “Brutus” used under license from Dynamic Specialty Products

[pm0ney]

If you can't find it on the internet it doesn't exist.

[3stooges]

If you can't find it on the internet it doesn't exist.

Well I'm not sure if you're just joking or what, but of course there are thousands and thousands of artists that were around back in the pre-internet days who were small-time and put out their own records and tapes who you can't find anything on them on the internet. I know this from experience, trying to look up old bands I've seen live, and there's nothing in google on them.

But in this case, it just seems that if it was something dope enough for the Beasties to sample, there would be something on them no matter how small it might be. As we know the boys already got a track record for this kind of thing with Nathaniel Hornblower etc..

[cj hood]

They sampled themselves singing on Long Burn. It's not the Black Merda song of the same name - not at all the same.

Doesn't Pretty Ron and the Love Boat Crew sound like something they'd makeup?

yes

[Michelle*s_Farm]

yes

(y)

[JohnnyChavello]

Or...these are songs they originally recorded for an unreleased concept album, a la Sgt. Pepper's.

[MCScoobyT]

Or...these are songs they originally recorded for an unreleased concept album, a la Sgt. Pepper's.
I like this idea... this group of songs could be HSCp1

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Or...these are songs they originally recorded for an unreleased concept album, a la Sgt. Pepper's.

Awesome idea. This BBMB is the source of the great mythologies and historical narratives of the 22nd century. When you look up samples for Hot Sauce Committee Part Two google directs us here. Not sure about duckduckgo though ;)

P.S. Do not listen to me I am on the English Cask Ales again.

[tjpop]

Here's a question: when listening to the songs which do have a sample credited on liner notes...does anyone hear a snippet that could be said sample ? Audibly speaking. I need to break out the record myself...haven't listened to it since it came out. I always assumed everything to be legit when I read the liner notes casually so they did a great job of making it believable if they are in fact fake bands and/or films! I love the theory if true. Those fucking jokesters...

[cAm]

in this interview (first 2 min) they talk a little about samples on Hot Sauce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgU1kl5jGRg

[abbott]

in this interview (first 2 min) they talk a little about samples on Hot Sauce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgU1kl5jGRg

enjoyed that one^.

Im not saying I like it more or its better than anything else, but it is clear the science, production, mixing, recording, and other on HSCP2 is like a perfect, XL, blue diamond that is cut and polished to perfection, the perfect aged wine. Last week I changed it out with PB, CYH and TT5B on the ski trip. Actually it was the CYH singles, that I downloaded from the purchase of the CYH coffee table book. I want to elaborate on my thoughts more but I just dont know how. I wish I could explain my feelings about this album, and how on road trips im thankful for it. Someone else has explained it to me once but I am a little afraid to share it.

[Bernard Goetz]

Whole album is still up here: http://www.hotsaucecommittee.com/

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Whole album is still up here: http://www.hotsaucecommittee.com/

I love listening to the LP from there as you see the thousands of comments
from such a diverse group of fans. I hope that link never disappears.

http://www.hotsaucecommittee.com/

[MCScoobyT]

in this interview (first 2 min) they talk a little about samples on Hot Sauce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgU1kl5jGRg

After watching that I think the samples are from real bands (not just the B-Boys sampling themselves and/or making up samples as a joke).
Think about test presses of singles, that maybe there were only one or two copies of for the A&R/band and then the project got shelved and never was released. There would be no reason for there to be record of these songs on the interwebs... especially if the are were recorded decades before the internet was rolling.
It's almost like the prerequisite to be sample on HSC was an internet search that turned up no results.
It would be helpful if each of the listed samples also listed a year of when the the record was released, but if they were just a test pressing, no year needed

[Michelle*s_Farm]

After watching that I think the samples are from real bands (not just the B-Boys sampling themselves and/or making up samples as a joke).
Think about test presses of singles, that maybe there were only one or two copies of for the A&R/band and then the project got shelved and never was released. There would be no reason for there to be record of these songs on the interwebs... especially if the are were recorded decades before the internet was rolling.
It's almost like the prerequisite to be sample on HSC was an internet search that turned up no results.
It would be helpful if each of the listed samples also listed a year of when the the record was released, but if they were just a test pressing, no year needed

This is what I originally thought, but the strange thing is that the film sample for The Bill Harper Collection does not exist (indeed the company does not either). The 'dead' give away here is that if a Western film has a soundtrack, then it would surely be in IMDB. I think they made a hip hop LP that sounds like it has rare samples when it actually does not. It is quite a talent to make a record sound like samples from a source that does exist -- if that makes sense. I think people have missed this about the LP, it is a mark of real expertise and craftsmanship -- it's crafty too. Those three are artistic, but crafty, geniuses.

[JohnnyChavello]

This is what I originally thought, but the strange thing is that the film sample for The Bill Harper Collection does not exist (indeed the company does not either). The 'dead' give away here is that if a Western film has a soundtrack, then it would surely be in IMDB. I think they made a hip hop LP that sounds like it has rare samples when it actually does not. It is quite a talent to make a record sound like samples from a source that does exist -- if that makes sense. I think people have missed this about the LP, it is a mark of real expertise and craftsmanship -- it's crafty too. Those three are artistic, but crafty, geniuses.

I agree 100%. The only thing that does seem to exist definitively is Blue Note Records as a licensor, but Blue Note is so well known in the jazz crowd that if Irv Greenshaw (who there seems to be no record of whatsoever) recorded even a rare, small scale recording, there would have to be something about it online. People obsess over jazz and Blue Note is probably the biggest and most influential jazz label.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

I agree 100%. The only thing that does seem to exist definitively is Blue Note Records as a licensor, but Blue Note is so well known in the jazz crowd that if Irv Greenshaw (who there seems to be no record of whatsoever) recorded even a rare, small scale recording, there would have to be something about it online. People obsess over jazz and Blue Note is probably the biggest and most influential jazz label.

Thank you for that important information. You know that Capitol Music Group owns Blue Note Records.

On a somewhat related note the advice below is a web-site about what samples you need to clear. There are clear rules on how you gain access and cite work of others. For example, if you re-do part of the composition, it appears you just clear and cite the song and artist (not the label). See link below:

How to gain sample clearance and citing sample clearance (https://songclearance.com/How%20to%20Avoid%20Sampling%20Disasters:%20A%20Ste p-by-Step%20Guide%20to%20Clearing%20Samples)

Does make me wonder how you would do this for unpublished recordings from bands that are defunct. If there is no label and the original artist(s) cannot be reached you would be taking a risk sampling them without permission. And if you were the unknown artist that was sampled by Beastie Boys you may consider it a way to jump-start your career again or capitalize in some way or another.

[3stooges]

Does make me wonder how you would do this for unpublished recordings from bands that are defunct. If there is no label and the original artist(s) cannot be reached you would be taking a risk sampling them without permission. And if you were the unknown artist that was sampled by Beastie Boys you may consider it a way to jump-start your career again or capitalize in some way or another.

You would still have to do your due diligence to clear the sample. As long as the songwriter/artist/label could prove in a court of law that the sample was a song they wrote, recorded, or released, they'd be able to sue and win.

Doesn't matter if it was "officially released", by any definition. Once you write a song, it is yours. And it doesn't matter if it's been copyrighted or not. You just have to be able to prove you wrote it first, and that it was ripped off.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

You would still have to do your due diligence to clear the sample. As long as the songwriter/artist/label could prove in a court of law that the sample was a song they wrote, recorded, or released, they'd be able to sue and win.

Doesn't matter if it was "officially released", by any definition. Once you write a song, it is yours. And it doesn't matter if it's been copyrighted or not. You just have to be able to prove you wrote it first, and that it was ripped off.

That makes perfect sense. So it does seem to drive home the point that if we cannot find the artists or film-makers behind the samples how could the band. I am open to the possibility that Beastie Boys are indeed time-travelers and the samples in question are from the future.

[Jiberish]

That makes perfect sense. So it does seem to drive home the point that if we cannot find the artists or film-makers behind the samples how could the band. I am open to the possibility that Beastie Boys are indeed time-travelers and the samples in question are from the future.


Which helps explain how their music ends up in the world of Star Trek.

[tjpop]

I respect the OP and other peoples opinions, too...but I dunno...on a fresh listen I think the vocals in lot of the songs sound too distorted. And an overuse of echo in general at spots. Like to me it sounds like a kid at the controls changing dials and knobs for the first time.The distorted vocals were cool/punk/different back on ill communication but not here.And much like TT5B the songs sound a bit skeletal.My opinion. Don't get me wrong love the record. The lyrics, sounds, and spirit.
Production though... eh.

[Bernard Goetz]

I agree - it's a bit metallic/muddy-sounding to me, in general.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

I respect the OP and other peoples opinions, too...but I dunno...on a fresh listen I think the vocals in lot of the songs sound too distorted. And an overuse of echo in general at spots. Like to me it sounds like a kid at the controls changing dials and knobs for the first time.The distorted vocals were cool/punk/different back on ill communication but not here.And much like TT5B the songs sound a bit skeletal.My opinion. Don't get me wrong love the record. The lyrics, sounds, and spirit.
Production though... eh.

Wow, who bred such an honest Beastie Boys fan -- Yauch would be proud, seriously. You are probably right to a degree. There were people who did not like the distorted 'radio shack' mic on IC. There is a DIY / punk statement on HSC pt2 I think. I personally like it when they 'fuck it up' as that to me reflects an honesty that is decreasingly found on modern music. HSC pt2 was less of that though (according to my ears, it was more crisp, clean and harsh digital in an analogue world if that makes sense).

I am not in the mood to argue with a BBMB friend, so please do not get me wrong, you are right, the sounds are harsh but cool. Not sure why, I think it could be production experimentation in a new techno world or it was on purpose. The later explantation confuses me slightly, so I will continue to question myself on this supposition :P

[LuciferHam]

Thought TT5B sounded better. Even though it was minimal, it worked better, with the whole throw back old-school, drum machine and synths kinda vibe.

3 The Hard Way's influenced by this right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgD4x_SfyD8

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Thought TT5B sounded better. Even though it was minimal, it worked better, with the whole throw back old-school, drum machine and synths kinda vibe.

3 The Hard Way's influenced by this right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgD4x_SfyD8

I like that, thanks for the link.

[YoungRemy]

I am also in the extreme minority of liking TT5B the most out of the self produced era, but not from an objective standpoint but of more of a nostalgic place of where I was at at the time.

same thing with Hello Nasty. I'm not saying either are my favorite albums, but both rank high on my nostalgia scale and that trumps production value.

I guess as a fan, I feel like something is "missing" on hsc2.

but that is obvious- they released it two years late with the pressure of losing their founder. so on a nostagia scale it makes me sad :(

it makes me sad to hear MCA say things like that he would never die and all the bragadoccio of hearing the Beastie Boys calling their shots like they always have done.

sometimes I just listen to Long Burn The Fire like three times in a row to imagine them retiring their jerseys in Madison Square Garden and laughing down on the haters...

now that song has some production value

[Laver1969]

I guess as a fan, I feel like something is "missing" on hsc2.


sometimes I just listen to Long Burn The Fire like three times in a row to imagine them retiring their jerseys in Madison Square Garden and laughing down on the haters...


The complete package would have/should have been a tour to support hsc2. That completes the "new album experience". Seeing them performing the songs gives the songs a new/alternative life. How the boys own them and interpret them in a live setting.

I often think they should be raising their jerseys somewhere. I love that line!!!

[YoungRemy]

I often think they should be raising their jerseys somewhere. I love that line!!!

well, they have, sort of...

http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Photo-Flash-Beastie-Boys-Larry-Holmes-and-Larry-Johnson-Donate-Memorabilia-to-MSGs-New-Signature-Suite-20130930


but not like Willis Reed (http://www.nba.com/knicks/history/retirednumbers.html), Or Elton John (http://www.eltondaily.com/2013/12/madison-square-garden-celebrates-eltons.html)

[Michelle*s_Farm]

I am also in the extreme minority of liking TT5B the most out of the self produced era, but not from an objective standpoint but of more of a nostalgic place of where I was at at the time.

it makes me sad to hear MCA say things like that he would never die and all the bragadoccio of hearing the Beastie Boys calling their shots like they always have done.

sometimes I just listen to Long Burn The Fire like three times in a row...

now that song has some production value

I liked TT5B as well (I think many people secretly like it). That is interesting that their braggadocio makes you sad at times. I can see that for sure. For me these three guys (at least their on-stage personas) are invincible and eternal, like super heroes. MCA exists in our hearts and in the music he left behind. It is much more than a person if that makes sense. Perhaps it is a silly idea, but I like it.

[YoungRemy]

best thing I've ever done in 10 years here, besides that other thing.

This message is hidden because Michelle*s_Farm is on your ignore list.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

best thing I've ever done in 10 years here, besides that other thing.

That is childish, but really funny. If you do not like what someone posts simply ignore them -- golden idea really.

[3stooges]

For me these three guys (at least their on-stage personas) are invincible and eternal, like super heroes. MCA exists in our hearts and in the music he left behind. It is much more than a person if that makes sense. Perhaps it is a silly idea, but I like it.

To me it makes sense. When your expression influences the culture (not just hip hop and music culture, but humanity in general), you are influencing and shaping the lives of people. Those people live accordingly, and during their lives they are influencing those that live on after them. In this sense it makes you eternal. Or I guess more specifically, your spirit, is eternal. Which is all we really are when it comes down to it, is our spirit, or our soul, whatever you want to call it.

In fact, you could say that everyone's spirit becomes eternal to some degree. But obviously someone like MCA has a greater influence than the average person. And I'm not talking about him living on in all the media. Even if all the songs, videos, if every physical trace of him were erased, his spirit will always live on through the lives of those living on after him.

[Kid Presentable]

I am also in the extreme minority of liking TT5B the most out of the self produced era, but not from an objective standpoint but of more of a nostalgic place of where I was at at the time.

same thing with Hello Nasty. I'm not saying either are my favorite albums, but both rank high on my nostalgia scale and that trumps production value.

I guess as a fan, I feel like something is "missing" on hsc2.

but that is obvious- they released it two years late with the pressure of losing their founder. so on a nostagia scale it makes me sad :(

it makes me sad to hear MCA say things like that he would never die and all the bragadoccio of hearing the Beastie Boys calling their shots like they always have done.

sometimes I just listen to Long Burn The Fire like three times in a row to imagine them retiring their jerseys in Madison Square Garden and laughing down on the haters...

now that song has some production value

True, HSC will always be bittersweet. Although the album helped me through a marriage breakdown, so I think it still had the magic. TT5B was just such an interesting time capsule, with a dope tour. I'll always love it.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

To me it makes sense. When your expression influences the culture (not just hip hop and music culture, but humanity in general), you are influencing and shaping the lives of people. Those people live accordingly, and during their lives they are influencing those that live on after them. In this sense it makes you eternal. Or I guess more specifically, your spirit, is eternal. Which is all we really are when it comes down to it, is our spirit, or our soul, whatever you want to call it.

In fact, you could say that everyone's spirit becomes eternal to some degree. But obviously someone like MCA has a greater influence than the average person. And I'm not talking about him living on in all the media. Even if all the songs, videos, if every physical trace of him were erased, his spirit will always live on through the lives of those living on after him.

That is very well-stated thank you.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

True, HSC will always be bittersweet. Although the album helped me through a marriage breakdown, so I think it still had the magic. TT5B was just such an interesting time capsule, with a dope tour. I'll always love it.

It helped me with a marriage breakdown as well, strange coincidence. I was outside the Letterman appearance and got captured on the live tape for a second. Also I was lucky enough to attend the MTV performance in the audience and was caught on tape again. It was a particularly great time. I think my favourite live experiences are ordered this way though (because I like the hard core / punk rock / alternative rock vibe):

1. Check your head tour
2. IC tour
3. Solid Gold Hits / Mix Up tour (not sure what that is called)
4. TT5B tour

[abbott]

Thought TT5B sounded better. Even though it was minimal, it worked better, with the whole throw back old-school, drum machine and synths kinda vibe.

3 The Hard Way's influenced by this right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgD4x_SfyD8

nice

[abbott]

SO track #14 @ 2 min. This song is so fucking good, it is something I want to go and play for the world, then at 2 min some crazy change comes in and I just dont get it. Like, I am jamming the song and @ 2 minutes I turn it down and then back up. Anyway why did that change get put in, there must be an inside joke or some shit cause it aint flowin the way a expect it should.

Maybe like funky donkey I will learn to love it

[tt5brevisited]

SO track #14

Track #14?

[Micodin]

I think he's abott is talking about Here's A Little Something For Ya.

Personally I think that break at the 2 minute mark is funky as hell.

[YoungRemy]

the "this shit is crazyyyyy" part?

yeah that is strong.

[abbott]

I think he's abott is talking about Here's A Little Something For Ya.

Personally I think that break at the 2 minute mark is funky as hell.

yep.... I know my mind is not right so I guess its me.

Not to mention I love the album and breaking out the microscope to bring this up.

I just put the cd in my car and play it, I haven't spent to much time reading anything on the cover, like titles. I did not look at the lyrics to PB until I had been playing it for 2 years. Then I was like: WTF?