Undeniable Skills

[Lex Diamonds]

Chester P of old skool UK crew Taskforce absolutely killing a street freestyle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z31ZWDGiRr0

[Guy Incognito]

Errm?

I have previous form on getting the terminology wrong/misunderstood when it comes to hip hop but i thought freestyle was made up on the spot, cos it was pretty clear to me that piece was written.

Or does freestyle just mean a massive long rap?

[Lex Diamonds]

Freestyle has come to mean any on-the-spot emceeing from a rapper, nowadays it's usually written- but often not (you can easily tell the difference)- and doesn't adhere to any kind of verse-chorus song structure. Usually done in one take, too.

No thoughts on the actual rap then?

[Lex Diamonds]

By the way, the thing you're thinking of is known as rapping "off the top/off the dome" and sounds like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOvu4h9KdX0).

[Guy Incognito]

Freestyle has come to mean any on-the-spot emceeing from a rapper, nowadays it's usually written- but often not (you can easily tell the difference)- and doesn't adhere to any kind of verse-chorus song structure. Usually done in one take, too.

No thoughts on the actual rap then?

fair do's

yeah it was all right, i had a look at some of the other vids as well. all seemed a bit contrived if i am honest. didnt quite believe it on some of them if you get my meaning

that chester p one was ok. bit grim for me, also i thought there was more focus on getting as many different words in as there was to telling a story or getting the point across, he lost me a couple of times, not going to lie.

[Micodin]

For a kid that grew up on the east coast it's hard for me to listen to UK rappers.

I'm sure it's quality. I'm just not feeling it.

[Guy Incognito]

I'm probably going to get shit for this but i would much rather someone rap less intricately or even not very well but have a story i can get or just party rhymes than appreciate the craft of cramming in words or rhyming intelligently if its a difficult listen or not that interesting.

Some people can do a bit of both, eminem springs to mind, really good at the old "flow" but also is funny and can be a bit daft at times. Or Mike Skinner, couldnt rap to save his life but still managed to be super entertaining

just rapping for ages and skilfully crowbarring stuff in without actually saying anything or enhancing the track is just as bad as a too long guitar solo.

the chester p thing was ok but it went on too long and i wasnt really taking in what he was saying.

Soz

[Lex Diamonds]

For a kid that grew up on the east coast it's hard for me to listen to UK rappers.

I'm sure it's quality. I'm just not feeling it.
I don't really see what being from the east coast has to do with that. I know a lot of people in the UK who don't like US rap because they think it's all rhyming about partying and strippers over club beats so they just dismiss it. I would say more East Coast rappers make the cross over to working with UK MCs and producers than those from other parts of the US. For example Sadat X (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8kUNnLcpnE), Vinnie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad9vhBTWeE8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad9vhBTWeE8), Flipmode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-UYMhcvm9g), Diamond D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47G95T2IiuM), Sean P (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNgTzCBCoo8), etc have all rapped alongside UK MCs recently. Not East Coast, but this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CgBhxH6Z3w) is one of my favourite crossovers of all time.

To be honest I usually prefer the different types of flavour that a straight UK track (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Rhm_G4_rg) or a straight US track (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1yGG8jMSTI) bring over an attempted crossover. Nobody in the US is making hip-hop like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw2Kw7URWAU) right now. On the other hand people like Gambino and Kendrick are making those big budget, high concept rap radio tracks that we don't do so well over here. The UK scene definitely has its own sound which is a more "boom bap" and golden age style that has recently seen a huge resurgence in popularity and is even filtering back across to the US scene. Angel Haze (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgejmc4TulI), AOTP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFF6kTO0jMs), Roc Marc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ka3-F2yKTM) (and the remix (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtbb_Nryqsg)) and Wu Tang (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZE2eUYG8iw) have all used UK beats recently.

Sorry if this post is a little jumbled, I've been jumping around YouTube for the examples and shit. Hopefully you get what I mean though. Never say never; I used to think Australian rap was a joke until I heard some ill shit like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSFT2OKcdk0).

[Lex Diamonds]

I'm probably going to get shit for this but i would much rather someone rap less intricately or even not very well but have a story i can get or just party rhymes than appreciate the craft of cramming in words or rhyming intelligently if its a difficult listen or not that interesting.

Some people can do a bit of both, eminem springs to mind, really good at the old "flow" but also is funny and can be a bit daft at times. Or Mike Skinner, couldnt rap to save his life but still managed to be super entertaining

just rapping for ages and skilfully crowbarring stuff in without actually saying anything or enhancing the track is just as bad as a too long guitar solo.

the chester p thing was ok but it went on too long and i wasnt really taking in what he was saying.

Soz
I think maybe hip-hop's not for you. If you can't concentrate for 3 minutes of meaningful bars and you like rappers who do it "not very well" then maybe you'd prefer stuff like Wale and Rick Ross. But to me, this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQEG1Vit3qo) type of stuff is gold and I can't help but listen intently.

[Micodin]

I don't really see what being from the east coast has to do with that.

All I meant was growing up outside of Philadelphia all I listened to was NY radio. And I grew up watching YO!, The Box, and Rap City. Then I was buying Funk Flex and Mr Cee mix-tapes at the local flea market. Everything I was listening to was 90% east coast rap.

In the 90's all you'd hear was Wu, BIG, and Nas first records booming out the Jeeps. Dre and Snoop were huge but the East Coast was still playing their own shit 24/7. Mobb, Jeru, Blahzay, Smooth Da Hustler, KRS, Gang Starr, LOX, AZ, Fugees, CNN, Ghost and Rae... You would hear these cats in the cars, in the clubs, and then you would see them live at their shows.

Yes hip-hop at that time was global but if you lived on the east coast it was still a very regional thing. For example Em, Nelly and Master P were killing it at the time but you wasn't hearing Funk Flex or DJ Clue doing blends of their shit or dropping bombs.

Long story short, I'm still a east coast kid at heart. I've obviously branched out during the years, but it's no surprise my favorite rapper for the past 3 years hails from Queens.

[Lex Diamonds]

It's weird how you describe it being insular like that. All the top East Coast rappers I see interviews with talk about how they fucked with NWA, Ice T, Cypress Hill and those styles as well as shit like The Geto Boys and UGK. Also I always thought Em, Dilated Peoples and them were getting East Coast play thanks to Rawkus. I think in any generation, the best artists are ones with eclectic tastes- from the Beatles citing Marvin Gaye as their favourite songwriter to my current favourite artist, Bam Bam. The amount of obscure European music he uses and references is great. He is also deep in the UK hip-hop scene and always knows who to hang out with/bring to his shows when he is over here. Slick Rick brought some of the UK hip-hop culture (which has its roots in reggae as opposed to electro) with him to New York and look how well received that was.

[Micodin]

I'm talking about hip-hop being regional and from my perspective growing up. Pre-internet. That's what I'm trying to convey. If you lived on the east coast you heard NY rap on the radio, in the clubs, and at the shows. If you lived in the south you were hearing Master P and Juvenile in the clubs, radios, local shows. Same with Snoop, Cube, Del in the west, and etc.

Yes, I listened to NWA, Geto Boys, Cypress, 2 Live Crew and every other tape I could buy growing up because I was a hip-hop fiend. But they weren't playing that shit on local radio. I had to search for it. Most of the time I'd see their music video and I'd cop their tape just for one song.

The backpackers started their own wave when they branched out and got into everything. That's when the Rawkus blew up and paved the way for the Stones Throw, Def Jux, and other indies. The internet helped in a big way.

As for Bronson he lists Kool G Rap (Queens) as his favorite rapper ever. MOP (Brooklyn) as his favorite rap group ever. He talks about wanting Mr. Wonderful to be his Illmatic. Yes, he talks about Pimp C and NWA now and then. But you pretty much hear at least one or two Queens references or name drops in everyone of his songs. Coincidence? "I'm a hero in my hometown baby"

I'm not saying other hip-hop wasn't getting love. But like sports teams hip-hop can be very regional and people love to support the home team. And I love the local hip-hop that comes out of the Philly, Jersey, NY tri-state area.

[Lex Diamonds]

As for Bronson he lists Kool G Rap (Queens) as his favorite rapper ever. MOP (Brooklyn) as his favorite rap group ever. He talks about wanting Mr. Wonderful to be his Illmatic. Yes, he talks about Pimp C and NWA now and then. But you pretty much hear at least one or two Queens references or name drops in everyone of his songs. Coincidence? "I'm a hero in my hometown baby"

I'm not saying other hip-hop wasn't getting love. But like sports teams hip-hop can be very regional and people love to support the home team. And I love the local hip-hop that comes out of the Philly, Jersey, NY tri-state area.
All I'm saying is that hip-hop pioneers aren't insular like that. It's all about mixing new ingredients with what's classic. I know G Rap is Bronson's favourite MC and both of their music is quintessentially New York but Bronson also manages to incorporate all this other stuff (80s Brit pop, Carribbean vocals, South American samba, Middle Eastern jazz etc) which is what makes it great. If you only listen to the people around you you're just going to sound the same as them and the art will never progress, feel me? This is why I have a lot of respect for movements like Black Hippy and Pro Era who make a point of taking influence from other cultures/working with UK artists.

[Lex Diamonds]

For those reasons I would disagree with the sports team analogy. Hip-hop isn't a competition, it's a community. I think that there is a huge difference between what was being played on local mainstream radio/MTV or the heavily manufactured East Vs West narrative and what was actually going on in the culture.

I don't know why I even care that you don't like it. I guess it's just frustrating for me to hear people dismiss such an important musical movement. There's a lot of elements of US hip-hop culture which came from the UK; the two were pretty much born simultaneously, we didn't just start doing this recently. Most people only see it as a one-way thing though.

Also, as a side note, Bronson admitted that Jeeps was purposefully New York-centric to catch the ear of NY radio DJs and get him into their rotation.

[Micodin]

If you only listen to the people around you you're just going to sound the same as them and the art will never progress, feel me?

I do, in a big way. Ever since I started to make beats I incorporated all my influences into one big cauldron aka my MPC and record collection. I still do to this day. Serious Problems drops July 1st! (shameless plug)

Don't get me wrong. In '97 and up I was spinning D'n'B and UK Garage at raves and parties with MC's crushing rhymes over them. UK producers find the nicest breaks. No doubt.

I think I was just talking about me personally and growing up in the area. I have fond memories of going to Nas & AZ shows and then hearing them out of the 325i's and Acura Legends all summer. So, I retract my earlier statement. I just fuck with UK and Australian producers more than the MC's. Heavily. Quakers have been in steady rotation since I discovered them a couple years ago. But, you're a good source for the UK good good. I'll peep whatever you throw down.

[Micodin]

Hip-hop isn't a competition, it's a community

Hip-hop is the most competitive music EVER!

Did you miss the Bronx, Queens beef in the 80's?

Did you miss the East Coast, West Coast beefs in the 90's?

Have you gone to a Rap Battle? Do you listen to shit rappers say about their peers?

Come on, son! I know you don't believe that.

[Lex Diamonds]

Fair enough man, I can see you know your shit when it comes to the UK record scene... I know a few full time diggers and you're right, those guys don't play! Here (http://www.mixcloud.com/suspectpackages/its-all-soul-vol1/) is an amazing soul mix from one of the best UK hip-hop DJs.

I hope I can help you find something you like anyway... there's a lot of sick rappers out here if you can get past the initial unfamiliarity. Did you check this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw2Kw7URWAU) one? That second verse in particular is insane, I can type out parts if you have difficulty understanding what they're saying.

[Lex Diamonds]

Hip-hop is the most competitive music EVER!

Did you miss the Bronx, Queens beef in the 80's?

Did you miss the East Coast, West Coast beefs in the 90's?

Have you gone to a Rap Battle? Do you listen to shit rappers say about their peers?

Come on, son! I know you don't believe that.
Oh yeah, it's competitive for sure! But it's not a competition. There can never be a winner or an end- it's all about healthy rivalry.

The Shan/KRS beef was a phenomenon: people who actually knew each other personally committing their dispute to vinyl. Almost every "beef" since has been created to sell records...

And battling is only impressive if you can make music too. I've been to many battle events and often the most "skilled" battlers have no understanding of the music itself- they're just good at making people laugh or whatever.

[Micodin]

I'm fucking with you. I know you know what's what.

And I agree, most battle MC's just know just battling. I've tried working with them and they don't understand song structure, how to tell a story, how to be interesting, how to stay on beat, etc. I've given up on them.

I'll peep that mix! I always need new tunes for my commute.

[Lex Diamonds]

I'm fucking with you. I know you know what's what.

And I agree, most battle MC's just know just battling. I've tried working with them and they don't understand song structure, how to tell a story, how to be interesting, how to stay on beat, etc. I've given up on them.

I'll peep that mix! I always need new tunes for my commute.
I totally agree. They often have the lyrical brain and none of the musical stuff. It's fun sometimes but after a while they're just a pale substitute for real rappers.

And yeah check the mix- I had put the link up wrong but it's fixed now. I took that into my old restaurant job on a CD once and everybody in the kitchens kept borrowing it to rip a copy/listen to while they work.

Let me know what you think of that High Life track too. "Passing through Barca leaving tags on the Gaudi" is definitely a standout bar...

[Guy Incognito]

i think it comes down to me preferring beats. I dont think i got my point across and i do think you appreciate and know a lot more about different aspects of the artform. I guess i just like it simpler.

I get that some of the stuff is well crafted and hard to do but taking that original link as an example, it didnt move me that much but i can appreciate the skill but i think that in most forms of music there is an (wait for it) x factor as to why it works. What i was trying to say before was that technical ability doesnt always mean that its going to be quality stuff.

Rappers i like seem to blend ability with either interesting or funny rhymes and have musical sense. I'm thinking of people like eminem, q tip, rakim, de la and jurassic 5. i know i am a bit old school. I just dont think being able to put a certain set of words together means its brilliant.