Mike Brown/Darren Wilson [Archive] - Beastie Boys Message Board

Dorothy Wood

12-03-2014, 11:17 AM

that has nothing to do with a guy robbing and assaulting a shop owner and then putting up a fight against and assaulting a cop. that's an incredibly loooooong reach there.

He didn't rob anybody, he stole a handful of cigarillos. Even if Brown was an asshole, being an asshole isn't punishable by death. Even if he punched the cop, he shouldn't have been shot down in the street and left in the sun for hours. People are upset by the actions of the cops in the aftermath, and the ridiculous over the top military style swat teams that descended on the town to "keep the peace". All I see there is unnecessary force, and white authorities trying to contain black residents and make them feel powerless. The tension was there before the incident. And I do think the cop was too fearful in the situation, he thought Brown was going to try to run through the bullets and get him...I mean what? That's irrational.

I was also disturbed by a video I watched where cops in St Louis shot a mentally ill black man outside of a convenience store for acting crazy and wielding a very small knife. They basically just rolled up and shot him dead before trying anything else.

These incidents and others like them show me that cops have no qualms about shooting black people dead. The fact is, after decades of inequality, there's a fucked up power dynamic that was structured by racial discrimination.

Even if you take race out of it, I still don't want to live in a country where cops can shoot people down in the street on suspicion. Nor do I want to see cops outfitted like military personnel, battling citizens. What are they so afraid of? Why weren't tanks called out to stop the senseless pumpkin fest riots? Why do gatherings of black people mourning scare the police more than gatherings of drunken destructive white people? Oops I went back to race again.

But here, here's a story about off duty cops beating up white citizens for no reason, and the entire system covering it up. Happened down the road from my house: http://www.vice.com/read/city-of-silence-117

it used to be about race, nowadays they treat everyone (including animals) like shit cause cops are shit
It's still about race in a lot of cases, the statistics show over and over that there is racial bias in arrests and punishment.

Lyman Zerga

12-03-2014, 03:09 PM

"People stop making this shit about race, bad cops kill and shoot anyone, they want civilians to be afraid of them so they can do as they please. Its just easily corrupt people with lots of power."

^this

TurdBerglar

12-03-2014, 04:29 PM

he didn't rob anybody? the fuck? he's a thief that used his size and intimidation to take what he wanted! and then tried to do the same thing to a cop who correctly saw him as suspicious and decided to stop him! you just can't take accountability away from people because we perceive them to be at a disadvantage. that's just another form of discrimination that's just as bad as how we view racism.

then you see his step dad telling a group of people TO BURN THIS BITCH DOWN. and that's exactly what happened. looters and rioters burning their OWN community down. fucking their OWN shit up. that's asshole bullshit. what great role models.

lets all look the other way and let little asshole jimmy slide through school because he comes from a bad situation. that's not any different than saying FUCK JIMMY because he's different. it causes the same problems. oh he's not a bully he's just misunderstood! until little jimmy punches your kid in the face and knocks his teeth out. FUCK LITTLE JIMMY not because he's different but because he's an asshole. and fuck his parents too!

I didn't say he deserved to be killed. but if someone acts like an asshole you're just setting yourself up for more shit in your life. you're just gonna make shit worse for yourself. so I don't have any sympathy for someone doing a very stupid self inflicted thing.

Dorothy Wood

12-03-2014, 07:53 PM

I get that you're basically saying actions have consequences, but I'm saying that too in a broader sense. The police deserve scrutiny for their actions.

I've had decent and terrible interactions with cops. I'm not even saying they're all bad, but across the country every week, some cop is gunning down/beating/choking a person in reaction to minor infractions that probably wouldnt even result in jail time. And the way they all work together to cover up and/or try to explain it away, is creepy to me.

Bob

12-03-2014, 08:35 PM

I didn't say he deserved to be killed. but if someone acts like an asshole you're just setting yourself up for more shit in your life. you're just gonna make shit worse for yourself. so I don't have any sympathy for someone doing a very stupid self inflicted thing.

what should happen to the killer though

TurdBerglar

12-03-2014, 08:46 PM

across the country every week, some cop is gunning down/beating/choking a person in reaction to minor infractions that probably wouldnt even result in jail time. And the way they all work together to cover up and/or try to explain it away, is creepy to me.

same thing happens with all the dirtbags, assholes, hoodrats, white trash and scum that completely ruin neighborhoods, communities, towns and even whole cities and they get nothing but a slap on the wrist and they're back out doing it all over again with barely a care in the world because everything is becoming way to lenient and nothing is anybody's fault anymore. meanwhile the people in the middle have to deal with all this crazy shit ruining their neighborhoods. but who's having a shitfit about that???

how's that crime rate in Chicago been?

responsibility and accountability and is being taken away from assholes while the burden is being placed upon decent people.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/ware_selectmen_tell_dog_owner.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBHI7D8vkDM

this guy had a problem with people trespassing on his property after an adjacent property was demolished. people were using his property as a short cut and a dump so he got a guard dog. guard dog rightfully bites intruders on his property and the PROPERTY OWNER must deal with unnecessary consequences rather than the trash trespassing. this is no where near the same level as Michael Brown/Darren Wilson thing but it's an example of how assholes are the victims now. why are the assholes being protected?

TurdBerglar

12-03-2014, 08:52 PM

what should happen to the killer though

attack a cop and expect to get shot, no?

attack ANYONE that's legally caring a gun and expect to get shot, no?

we're never going to know with full undoubted belief of what really happened. but im gonna trust a cop over some shit head that just intimidated, assaulted and robbed a shop owner for some extremely petty blunt making supplies.

TurdBerglar

12-03-2014, 09:03 PM

Burnout18

12-04-2014, 01:29 AM

that happens all the fucking time. why did this one get so much attention nationwide(word wide?)?

I think this one got so much attention because the Ferguson police left this body in the street for like 3 hours before CSU showed up. A couple of cops just staggered around Brown's fallen body. I don't even think they covered his body. Really kind of disgusting. That caught a lot of people's attention and it blew up on social media, then actual media caught wind of an unarmed black male being shot.

For what it's worth.... it's game over when you reach for a cop's gun, or anyone's gun for that matter. But for me, my problem is why didn't Wilson pop him right then and there when brown (allegedly) reached into the car to grab Wilson's gun? Did he really miss from point blank range? Is that actually bullshit? After that everything seems fucked up, Brown got 40 feet away, stopped, turned around and charged Wilson? What made him stop? What made him come back towards Wilson, a man who was shooting at him? The autopsy said the fatal shot went through the eye socket, exited through the jaw and broke his collarbone. Brown had his head down, either charging Wilson or stumbling from a previous shot.

Well Brown had a rap sheet, is caught on video strong arming some poor store owner moments before the shooting, forensic evidence suggest he was grazed by a bullet at point blank range while Wilson was in the drivers seat, and the witnesses are all over the place, less then half say he had his hands up. Everything kinda points to Wilson getting off, but hey who knows. I can't believe they don't have cameras in every cop car, but I guess that's a financial issue.

Burnout18

12-04-2014, 01:37 AM

He didn't rob anybody, he stole a handful of cigarillos.

wow. That sentence exists.

Just for the fuck of it, you know there's footage of him kind pushing the store clerk around, right? its not like he snuck out with a few cigarillos in his pocket when no one was looking, he grabbed and pushed the guy who was trying to stop him out of the way.

Burnout18

12-04-2014, 01:43 AM

now the whole new York choke hold thing, that cop was pretty damn excessive. but again the guy was doing something illegal and he expected to just be able to do whatever the hell he wants and resisted the cops. where is this ever increasing mentality of being able to do whatever the fuck you want coming from?

Cop was way over the top. I think the NYPD banned choke holds from practice in '94 and They did it for a reason. There was 6 of them right there, too! The video looks bad, but your right, people just can't go flipping the fuck out. His actions justified the officer's actions to a grand jury, which is horribly unfortunate cause it just doesn't look right.

TurdBerglar

12-04-2014, 08:45 AM

I think this one got so much attention because the Ferguson police left this body in the street for like 3 hours before CSU showed up. A couple of cops just staggered around Brown's fallen body. I don't even think they covered his body. Really kind of disgusting. That caught a lot of people's attention and it blew up on social media, then actual media caught wind of an unarmed black male being shot.

For what it's worth.... it's game over when you reach for a cop's gun, or anyone's gun for that matter. But for me, my problem is why didn't Wilson pop him right then and there when brown (allegedly) reached into the car to grab Wilson's gun? Did he really miss from point blank range? Is that actually bullshit? After that everything seems fucked up, Brown got 40 feet away, stopped, turned around and charged Wilson? What made him stop? What made him come back towards Wilson, a man who was shooting at him? The autopsy said the fatal shot went through the eye socket, exited through the jaw and broke his collarbone. Brown had his head down, either charging Wilson or stumbling from a previous shot.

Well Brown had a rap sheet, is caught on video strong arming some poor store owner moments before the shooting, forensic evidence suggest he was grazed by a bullet at point blank range while Wilson was in the drivers seat, and the witnesses are all over the place, less then half say he had his hands up. Everything kinda points to Wilson getting off, but hey who knows. I can't believe they don't have cameras in every cop car, but I guess that's a financial issue.

from what I read brown had his hands on Wilson's gun while Wilson was holding it and trying to force the gun to turn towards wilson while it was being held within a struggle by both men. witnesses even say that it looked like the two men were arm wrestling through the window of the car. brown outside the car and wilson still in the car. that's when the gun went off in the cop car causing that grazing shot.

Dorothy Wood

12-04-2014, 05:15 PM

wow. That sentence exists.

Just for the fuck of it, you know there's footage of him kind pushing the store clerk around, right? its not like he snuck out with a few cigarillos in his pocket when no one was looking, he grabbed and pushed the guy who was trying to stop him out of the way.

Yeah he grabbed cigarillos and shoved a guy. I wouldn't call that a robbery.

Also you just casually said "well Brown had a rap sheet"...but no, he didn't. Odd how people just kinda say things that aren't true with such confidence.

Sir SkratchaLot

12-05-2014, 12:36 PM

same thing happens with all the dirtbags, assholes, hoodrats, white trash and scum that completely ruin neighborhoods, communities, towns and even whole cities and they get nothing but a slap on the wrist and they're back out doing it all over again with barely a care in the world because everything is becoming way to lenient and nothing is anybody's fault anymore. meanwhile the people in the middle have to deal with all this crazy shit ruining their neighborhoods. but who's having a shitfit about that???

Everyone is always making absolute, unqualified statements about everything that can possibly be talked about and nobody ever does anything about it ever! Literally!!! :eek: Why doesn't anyone stop everyone? :mad:

;)

Burnout18

12-05-2014, 05:05 PM

Yeah he grabbed cigarillos and shoved a guy. I wouldn't call that a robbery.

Also you just casually said "well Brown had a rap sheet"...but no, he didn't. Odd how people just kinda say things that aren't true with such confidence.

Mike Brown had a juvenile record. No, it's not the one floating around the internet, that one is bullshit. The St. Louis Dispatch sued to have his juvy record unsealed but a judge denied the request. A lawyer working for the juvy courts said that brown had neither a class A or Class B felony. So that leaves a C class felony. Class C felonies include stuff like simple assault and involuntary manslaughter. I've know about this since September, this isn't breaking news.

So yeah Brown had a record. It's sealed. You are describing yourself in that comment about confidence and speaking on things that aren't true. It's embarrassing for you actually.

Brown steals product from a store, a store owner tries to stop him and brown grabs his shirt and throws him out the way. Then Brown turned around and looks like he wants to go back for more until the store owner backs up. Horrible, disgusting, criminal behavior. Robbery. Strong Arm Robbery. You seem to be purposely down playing an event that gives us some insight to Brown's state of mind/behavior near the time of his altercation with Wilson.

You are being dishonest and come across as uninformed.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/judge-denies-request-for-michael-brown-s-juvenile-records/article_43dfd98b-32ec-550d-b399-750133f69203.html

Dorothy Wood

12-05-2014, 08:59 PM

Dorothy Wood

12-05-2014, 09:18 PM

Btw a sealed juvenile record with possible class C infractions isn't a "rap sheet". Not even close.

Lyman Zerga

12-06-2014, 11:13 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBHI7D8vkDM

this guy had a problem with people trespassing on his property after an adjacent property was demolished. people were using his property as a short cut and a dump so he got a guard dog. guard dog rightfully bites intruders on his property and the PROPERTY OWNER must deal with unnecessary consequences rather than the trash trespassing. this is no where near the same level as Michael Brown/Darren Wilson thing but it's an example of how assholes are the victims now. why are the assholes being protected?

the dog story reminds me a lil bit of the geist case and since im related to geist's owner i know that those horrible cop actions must be real and not made up b.s. by frustated people who got an unfair ticket or something

im so tired of cops abusing their powers and ego tripping and getting away with it but in this case i would have reacted the same way the cop did, most would.

abbott

12-06-2014, 06:06 PM

this whole Bill Cosbey thing is just because hes black.

I might burn some shit down tonight

abbott

12-06-2014, 07:34 PM

well I burned down this big ass joint and nothing changed, except now I can travel time and space

Burnout18

12-07-2014, 07:32 PM

You are confused by my concerns. Im downplaying the "strong arm robbery" because a strong arm robbery isn't a capital offense.

Everybody should just follow the rules, but they don't.

Cops should not be allowed to shoot people down in the street. Cops shouldn't respond to peaceful protest with riot gear. Cops shouldnt treat citizens like enemies. Systemic prejudice and racism is real. Violence against the police happens rarely, violence perpetrated by police happens often.

All you care about is Brown's character, the minutiae of the altercation...who gives a fuck? Im concerned about the aftermath, Im angry that people who are fearful and can't handle a perp without pumping them full of bullets are allowed to be cops. So yeah, I get where you're coming from, a place where nothing bad has ever happened to you and you think stealing is really really bad.

A rap sheet is a criminal record which is a juvy record, especially when he was just an adult for all of 2 months. Stop being dishonest. Brown's character/actions matter when you try to determine what actually happened that day. That's not hard to understand.

Do you even know what Wilson said? That Brown reached into his squad car, punched him, then he grabbed his gun and tried to turn it into Wilson. Would you even care if Brown had killed Wilson right there? (nah, we'd never know about it wouldn't make national news) Then Brown turned and ran away, stopped, then charged at Wilson (not with his hands up) and that's when Wilson finally hit him in the head. While I am not 100% sold on the final sequence (see my previous post) I know that grabbing anyone's gun is a death sentence. Did you actually know all that? Did you know witnesses actually corroborate that story?

You can scream about race until your head pops off, but Brown sealed his own fate when he grabbed Wilson's gun. What's so hard to comprehend about that? I find it pathetic, and downright disgusting, that you are ignoring the reality of the situation because you just want to make this all about race. We get it. You have an agenda, so you're gonna ignore whatever you want to try to convince yourself your right and the system is wrong.... maaaaaaan. If you're so confident Mike brown's death is about race then go punch a cop and try to take his/her gun tomorrow. Godspeed.

Nice little shot, trying to make it sound like I live in a little bubble. Hey if that's what you gotta do to save face after looking uninformed and completely biased, then do what you gotta do.

Dorothy Wood

12-08-2014, 09:30 AM

You're really condescending. Anyway I don't believe Wilson's account. Everything you are saying equals "Brown deserved it", and I just don't agree. I think it was an unnecessary altercation that shoudve been handled better. I don't think police should be militarized or be able to just kill people. This is just one instance. If you can't even try to see why people are so hurt and angry, you just have no respect for people with a different point of view. Which leads me to believe you have little experience with people who aren't like you, so your opinion is narrow. So I think this'll be my last response because it seems like you just think I'm an idiot. I'm not.

Also I'm not dishonest, and my only agenda is justice.

abbott

12-08-2014, 06:37 PM

""Brown deserved it", and I just don't agree...

Also I'm not dishonest, and my only agenda is justice."

right? just shoot his arm, don't shoot to kill....

Shit, I'll take you down with a simple old school Evan Tanner technique called the Speed Racer pinky move.

JoLovesMCA

12-09-2014, 01:55 PM

seems like whenever shit like this happens the media and race baiters goes mental with it knowing that it's gonna get them attention and views which equals profit. everyone falls for it and gets completely blown out of proportion. from what I've read, don't know how accurate it is, to me it's seems like a habitual dirtbag got shot by a cop for acting like a menacing dirtbag towards said cop.

that happens all the fucking time. why did this one get so much attention nationwide(word wide?)?

why does it have to be racism? why is race even being brought into the equation? bad shit happens to people that act like dirtbags eventually.

if the media keeps this up no one is going to take it seriously anymore some day. everyone is gonna become either get fed up about hearing it or numb to it. so they'll have to sensationalize it even more. all it's doing in the mean time is making people believe that there's some sort of false confrontation that their involved in.

I agree with you!

Well...cops are not superhuman. They may have training and a badge but they are still prone to making stupid decisions like the rest of us. In the chokehold incident I feel that something would have happened to the guy regardless. Should have tased him instead? And if he died from that people would try and outlaw tasing. Tragedies happen. Comply with the cop and sue them or do a peaceful protest if you feel discriminated against. Your life isn’t worth losing when up against a cop because they have an advantage.

As for Michael Brown, well it’s sad he died. It’s sad when anyone dies like that. But he was use to bullying people and getting what he wanted. He saw the little short lanky cop and didn’t see him as a threat. And then he paid the price with his own life.

Cops should protect and serve and not bully but is this an epidemic?? Are cops murdering innocent people left and right or is the media sensationalizing these stories?

I just read an email from Change.Org that MB's parents want to get people to sign their petition to have cops wear body camera's. Do y'all agree with that?

TurdBerglar

12-09-2014, 02:27 PM

JoLovesMCA

12-09-2014, 03:09 PM

cops wearing little go pro cameras would seem like the total ideal application for these little devices. gopro could make a killing with contracting with law enforcement. seems like it would help with keeping renegade cops inline and to help demonstrate how much contempt people have for authority and how fucking crazy people the cops have to deal with are. but what I think will happen is that people will still find a way to scream discrimination when there's all this footage leaking out of people acting like assholes and the cops stepping in to stop it in a rightful manner.

That is true. Even with footage there will always be people to justify why somebody decides to fight a cop. It least in a court of law the jury will decide and not the media.

I am not black so can’t begin to understand what it might feel like to be targeted. I have a good friend who is black and she said she is afraid to let her son walk the street alone because of the cops. I told her well make sure your son doesn’t bum-rush a cop or rob people and stay out of gangs and he should be fine.

If we hear more stories of black people walking and actually minding their own business and not selling stuff illegally in front of stores and a cop harasses them then it needs to be addressed….but Michael Brown is not a good poster boy for their cause.

TurdBerglar

12-09-2014, 03:24 PM

Are cops murdering innocent people left and right or is the media sensationalizing these stories?

well according to the media we should be all dead from ebola for four months now already, so why worry! we're as good as dead!

the media is here to make profit off our attention we give them. stop paying attention to the god damn media, put your phone down and look out your front door for once!

Dorothy Wood

12-09-2014, 09:05 PM

I agree with you!

Well...cops are not superhuman. They may have training and a badge but they are still prone to making stupid decisions like the rest of us. In the chokehold incident I feel that something would have happened to the guy regardless. Should have tased him instead? And if he died from that people would try and outlaw tasing. Tragedies happen. Comply with the cop and sue them or do a peaceful protest if you feel discriminated against. Your life isn’t worth losing when up against a cop because they have an advantage.

As for Michael Brown, well it’s sad he died. It’s sad when anyone dies like that. But he was use to bullying people and getting what he wanted. He saw the little short lanky cop and didn’t see him as a threat. And then he paid the price with his own life.

Cops should protect and serve and not bully but is this an epidemic?? Are cops murdering innocent people left and right or is the media sensationalizing these stories?

I just read an email from Change.Org that MB's parents want to get people to sign their petition to have cops wear body camera's. Do y'all agree with that?

Hmm, why would you assume something would happen to that guy? I wonder why no one ever stopped the bagel shop in my college town from selling single cigarettes?

Also maybe you could google pictures of Darren Wilson instead of guessing he was small. He is over 6' tall and big boned.

JoLovesMCA

12-10-2014, 03:05 PM

Hmm, why would you assume something would happen to that guy? I wonder why no one ever stopped the bagel shop in my college town from selling single cigarettes?

Also maybe you could google pictures of Darren Wilson instead of guessing he was small. He is over 6' tall and big boned.

I saw Wilson, many photos of him. He doesn't look big to me. In my opinion and based on evidence released MB wasn't scared of him or threatened by him.

And I assumed something would happen to Garner because they said he had very bad health so I figured tasing him or do some other type of force might kill him too. I don't know, I'm torn anyway on this one. If somebody says they can't breathe then you should ease up. Cops hear that a lot though and so they didn't take him serious.

Dorothy Wood

12-10-2014, 07:55 PM

Lex Diamonds

12-11-2014, 09:02 AM

Wait a minute, I thought you didn't consider yourself to be white? Wasn't it you who made that huge embarrassing thread about "white people"?

TurdBerglar

12-11-2014, 10:20 AM

Well the cop is 6'4" and weighs 210 lbs according to his own testimony. Everyone is making so many assumptions in this scenario, it's very frustrating.

As for Eric Garner, they tackled him on suspicion of selling loose cigarettes. So no, he shouldn't have been tased either.

Cops can't just jump people, citizens have rights.something I didn't do. I yelled my head off and fought back physically because you can't fucking do that shit to people. The accuser said "it wasn't her", and they let me go, but I was livid. If I weren't a white lady, who knows what would've happened. Its natural to resist someone trying to arrest you when you didn't do anything arrest worthy. And if arresting

Many years ago I was apprehended by security in a crowd at a street festival and dragged with my arms pinned to face police accusing me of people for selling cigarettes is how the nypd spends its time and resources, that's fucked up.

I think they went after him because he was resisting, no? had nothing to do with the cigarettes other than that's what attracted the cops to him in the first place. you can't just go around selling loose cigarettes. who knows what they could be laced with or if they're actually "cigarettes". you just can't sell booze either like it's a fucking lemonade stand... same fucking thing.

im not saying the cops had the right to fucking choke him out. but you seem to be saying that they should have just left him alone and allowed him to be a fucking asshole.

Dorothy Wood

12-11-2014, 04:00 PM

I think they went after him because he was resisting, no? had nothing to do with the cigarettes other than that's what attracted the cops to him in the first place. you can't just go around selling loose cigarettes. who knows what they could be laced with or if they're actually "cigarettes". you just can't sell booze either like it's a fucking lemonade stand... same fucking thing.

im not saying the cops had the right to fucking choke him out. but you seem to be saying that they should have just left him alone and allowed him to be a fucking asshole.

If they were laced, he'd be charging more than 50 cents!

Watching the video, it looks to me like they tackle him pretty immediately after he calmly asks them to leave him alone. It was excessive for the crime. Which you can't even tell he's committing.

Dorothy Wood

12-11-2014, 04:14 PM

Wait a minute, I thought you didn't consider yourself to be white? Wasn't it you who made that huge embarrassing thread about "white people"?

Never said I wasn't white. And I'm not embarrassed about critiquing white culture.

TurdBerglar

12-11-2014, 09:37 PM

Dorothy Wood

12-12-2014, 11:35 AM

calm? the guy was freaking out. telling the cops to pretty much fuck off and threatening them("this ends today!" what's that suppose to mean?). im not trying to defend the guy that choked him out. he definitely should not have been put into a chokehold in that situation from what the video shows. but this guy was resisting the whole time. then there's this nice little edit in the video right before they start to grab the guy. who knows what actually happened right before that. to me it seems that someone obviously took something out of the video that made the guy look even worse. maybe the guy was a known nuisance. maybe he was not. but I did not like the guys behavior just as much as I didn't like the chokehold cop's behavior. the cop that he was actually talking to in the video seemed to be handling it well.

I grew up with a LOT of people and went to school with a LOT of kids that had absolutely no respect for authority of any kind and they just fucked the neighborhood up and ruined the schools for everyone else. thinking that no one had the right to tell them what to do in ANY situation no matter how disrespectful and unlawful they were being. so I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that pretty much tell a cop to fuck off.

I can't find any information about the circumstance leading up to the arrest, but the guy filming says Garner had broken up a fight. There were a ton of cops there, leading me to believe a fight did take place...I seriously doubt there'd be 5+ officers there to hassle a petty cigarette hustler. So it seems like they singled him out because they recognized him and maybe saw him peddle smokes before the fight or something? I don't know, it's weird there isn't more documentation of the context. I thought Garner just seemed exasperated by being singled out. I didn't take his behavior to be aggressive, he just seemed frustrated.

I have sympathy for people who tell the cops to fuck off, there's a reason authority is met with rebellion. A lot of authority is just made up rules so one group of people can control another. I think people need to be responsible for their actions, and a lot of rules make sense, but privileged classes of people get away with bending the law all the time. I deal with people who are wealthy on a regular basis, and a lot of them are forgetful and irresponsible, most don't pay for parking, theyll literally tell me "I'm double parked", "Im parked illegally", they ask for things for free like they're owed a prize, and many times I'm asked if I wil take cash for a purchase so it's off the books, so they don't have to pay sales tax.

So why does the lady in the fur coat not paying tax on her purchases get to be left alone?

My point is that there are double standards with the law, and people are dying over them. I don't think it's right.

Michelle*s_Farm

12-12-2014, 12:04 PM

Police officers should not have guns. My father was a police officer for over twenty years and consistently broke regulation by not loading his gun. The reason was simple, he did not want to kill another human being as his morality would not allow it. Also he felt that police were too stupid to carry around loaded guns. I think he was right as in his day the education level (and mentality) of police was about the same level of the hoodlums on the street.

Michelle*s_Farm

12-12-2014, 12:31 PM

well I burned down this big ass joint and nothing changed, except now I can travel time and space

This is a great quote, it made my day.

TurdBerglar

12-12-2014, 04:47 PM

I have sympathy for people who tell the cops to fuck off, there's a reason authority is met with rebellion.

the people that hate cops tend to be shitheads. not always but tend to be.

they're the shitheads that think they're being harassed when they're standing on the corner smoking a joint in the middle of broad daylight in a school zone and a cop comes by and he's all like.... leave me alone! im not doing anything! leave me alone! im just standing here! fights the cops and gets his ass kicked. god damn cops!

they're the shitheads that drive up to a park/playground and open up all the car doors and windows and blast obscene music at an obscene volume while he's just chillin there with some buddies and has a total fit when someone politely asks them to turn it down. so then the cops come and they have a another fit and think they're being harassed and fight the cops and then get arrested. god damn cops!

they're the shitheads that get shitfaced drunk at a bar and start fights and think they're getting picked on by the bouncers when they get thrown out. so they start banging on the windows until the cops come and beat the shit out of him because he feels he can do whatever the fuck he wants and shouldn't be told what to do especially by the cops. god damn cops!

most people that have a problem with authority are shitheads. and it starts at a young age when the kids' parents don't give a shit that little Johnny is a fucking little bastard that tells his teachers to go fuck themselves when they tell him to be quiet and sit down. and the parents feel the same way johhny does. don't tell my kid what to do! or they just don't care because they're bastards themselves.

Dorothy Wood

12-12-2014, 06:35 PM

Yeah that sounds pretty bad, I don't know the solution to shitheads. But I do know that people end up shitty because of the cycle of poverty, lack of nutrition, brain damage from substance abuse, lack of education, lack of opportunity, etc. So even if you think anyone can get past that if they just work hard, the odds are stacked against them. Many people just give in to unhealthy destructive behavior because they ultimately don't care if they live or die. That reckless attitude causes a lot of problems for everyone. But statistics show violent crime is in decline, so I feel like cops are just way too aggressive with their tactics and they're injuring and killing people too often.

TurdBerglar

12-12-2014, 07:07 PM

But I do know that people end up shitty because of the cycle of poverty, lack of nutrition, brain damage from substance abuse, lack of education, lack of opportunity, etc.

im no expert but isn't that how nearly EVERY American family started out when they first came here? isn't that just life? you gotta figure it out on your own? you gotta try to do the right thing and not act like a shithead? you gotta use and respect all the immense amount of resources that are provided to you here rather than fuck shit up? if you keep giving shitheads excuses and coddle them they're not gonna try to stop being shitheads. even if real shitty things happened in the past(maybe even currently) you can't feel sorry for them. it doesn't help. it hurts more than it helps to feel sorry for people. you're just making it easier for them to keep being shitheads. that bad shit happens to everyone including most families that have it well off now. somewhere along the line in the past most families started out pretty fucking bad over here. they just fought through it and worked their way up.

I maybe being pretty naïve here, but I think all you really need to do to be respected and successful here is to not have a shit ton of kids you can't afford, avoid the welfare cycle, go to school, and work, and just respect things and people in general. it's not really rocket science.

I don't know how it's like around you, but the shithead force far exceeds the police force here.

Michelle*s_Farm

12-12-2014, 07:46 PM

Shitheads are and will be a constant. When they are violent we have to lock them up. But we should not kill them, it is wrong. Obviously all bets are off in self-defence for private citizens in one-on-one / family situations. People employed by the state should never have a license to kill, as ultilitarianism is a sickness more so than terrorism. All life is precious, even the fuckin' shitheads.

TurdBerglar

12-12-2014, 08:50 PM

what if a shithead is trying to kill you? you're just suppose to let it happen? only if you're a cop? obviously this shithead trying to kill you doesn't feel all life if precious. cops do us a service. we should be grateful. do some fuck up? yes. is the system perfect? far from it. and you think cops should have less privileges to self defense than a private citizen? lets see how many cops we'll have once that happens and you have some shithead trying to rob or kill you and no one to help.

the police force is in turmoil because PEOPLE are in turmoil. people are loosing their fucking minds. everyone thinks they should just be able to do whatever they fuck they want with no consideration for anyone else more and more and if you stop them they think they're being discriminated against.

you tell a bunch of white skatepunks to fuck off and stop skating up the courthouse because IT'S NOT AN APPRPRIATE PLACE TO DO THAT. they feel they're being picked on and discriminated against for being skaters.

you tell the Puerto Rican kids that are ripping through a public park on dirt bikes and quads to fucking stop. they think they're being discriminated against by racist cops and the racist people that call the cops.

you tell a bunch of black kids to stop beating the shit out of each other at the basketball courts. they think the cops should mind their own business and stop harassing them.

people are getting fucking weird. and people are encouraging it because no one is calling them out on their bullshit because some how it's politically incorrect and discriminating to call a group of people out on their bullshit. and that attitude just follows these kids into adulthood and worse shit happens to them because they feel they should be allowed to do whatever they want.

Michelle*s_Farm

12-13-2014, 04:50 AM

I think most people are harmless. However, some people definitely need to be behind bars to keep us safe from physical violence. Systems need to be in place for the police to be able to safely detain those who are a physical danger to others. The technology may not be there yet as it seems that each year people die from the use of stun guns and supposedly non-lethal devices. Still it makes sense to look for better non-lethal technologies as I am sure it is extremely difficult for a police officer to kill someone when they are just trying to fulfil their duties.

Dorothy Wood

12-13-2014, 11:04 AM

im no expert but isn't that how nearly EVERY American family started out when they first came here? isn't that just life? you gotta figure it out on your own? you gotta try to do the right thing and not act like a shithead? you gotta use and respect all the immense amount of resources that are provided to you here rather than fuck shit up? if you keep giving shitheads excuses and coddle them they're not gonna try to stop being shitheads. even if real shitty things happened in the past(maybe even currently) you can't feel sorry for them. it doesn't help. it hurts more than it helps to feel sorry for people. you're just making it easier for them to keep being shitheads. that bad shit happens to everyone including most families that have it well off now. somewhere along the line in the past most families started out pretty fucking bad over here. they just fought through it and worked their way up.

I maybe being pretty naïve here, but I think all you really need to do to be respected and successful here is to not have a shit ton of kids you can't afford, avoid the welfare cycle, go to school, and work, and just respect things and people in general. it's not really rocket science.

I don't know how it's like around you, but the shithead force far exceeds the police force here.

I guess I just take a more holistic view. When I worked with "bad" kids in the past, their behavior improved when I treated them with more respect. Like Bobby won't stop poking another kid, and he's starting to get agitated...I said "dude what's wrong why are you doing that?" and he tells me he's bored and he knows how to do the math we're doing, but everyone is bothering him and he can't concentrate. So I sent him in the hall to complete his math worksheet and then come back and be my helper and explain it to the kids who aren't understanding it. And it worked, he was a perfect angel the rest of the day. Is that a permanent state? Probably not, but other teachers would've just punished him. I witnessed time and time again discrimination against students who didn't fit the mould. That adds up and is reinforced over and over by authorities.

I'm just saying everyone needs to calm down, humans of all kinds are awful, there's no one group to blame. I get mad about police abusing their authority because it's a slippery slope and I think the prison industry has the most to gain from mass incarceration. It's not actually solving problems to lock people up.

Anyway, a lot of people seem reckless, ignorant and crazy these days. But maybe just because communication is faster. Or maybe it's the end of an empire? Hard to tell.

TurdBerglar

12-13-2014, 04:18 PM

I guess I just take a more holistic view. When I worked with "bad" kids in the past, their behavior improved when I treated them with more respect. Like Bobby won't stop poking another kid, and he's starting to get agitated...I said "dude what's wrong why are you doing that?" and he tells me he's bored and he knows how to do the math we're doing, but everyone is bothering him and he can't concentrate. So I sent him in the hall to complete his math worksheet and then come back and be my helper and explain it to the kids who aren't understanding it. And it worked, he was a perfect angel the rest of the day. Is that a permanent state? Probably not, but other teachers would've just punished him. I witnessed time and time again discrimination against students who didn't fit the mould. That adds up and is reinforced over and over by authorities.

im talking more about kids stabbing each other and beating the complete shit out of one another over gang shit and girls getting caught in the school library having a train ran on her... this is in middle school... this is what I grew up with. that was the breaking point for why my mother decided to send me to school in the suburbs(which I didn't enjoy because those kids were just as screwed up but in a completely different way, but at least they were good students that didn't fuck up the learning environment). this is the reason why people around here participate in "white flight"(such a horrible term). I just see it as people getting themselves and especially their fucking kids away from assholes because the blacks and Puerto Ricans that have the means to do so get the fuck out just the same and move to the suburbs along with the white people that are running away from the crazy bullshit.

maybe shit is different around here as Massachusetts is considered pretty fucking liberal so maybe there's loads less racism. I don't know.

Dorothy Wood

12-13-2014, 07:32 PM

im talking more about kids stabbing each other and beating the complete shit out of one another over gang shit and girls getting caught in the school library having a train ran on her... this is in middle school... this is what I grew up with. that was the breaking point for why my mother decided to send me to school in the suburbs(which I didn't enjoy because those kids were just as screwed up but in a completely different way, but at least they were good students that didn't fuck up the learning environment). this is the reason why people around here participate in "white flight"(such a horrible term). I just see it as people getting themselves and especially their fucking kids away from assholes because the blacks and Puerto Ricans that have the means to do so get the fuck out just the same and move to the suburbs along with the white people that are running away from the crazy bullshit.

maybe shit is different around here as Massachusetts is considered pretty fucking liberal so maybe there's loads less racism. I don't know.

Okay, those are terrible things, yes. I was talking about the cumulative effect of discrimination that starts in elementary school, or even preschool. So like the kid I was talking about maybe was the type of kid to be on the track to being in a gang or something later on.

I'm not really arguing that there aren't terrible people, I'm arguing that a lot of the terribleness is stoked by the dominant culture. Violence and sexuality is sold to kids, overworked and/or undereducated parents aren't parenting. Kids and teenagers just kind of fend for themselves, some go on to be amazing productive people, others become sociopaths. I'm not a social worker, so I don't have the right vocabulary to talk about this, but in college I did have to learn how to manage inner city classrooms. I worked with middle schoolers years ago, one was stabbed by her sister and missed school, then came back all crabby and kept getting in trouble. I thought the lead teacher was missing the point in punishing her for saying "fuck" and the like...because there was a reason behind her behavior. Meeting aggression with aggression just doesn't work.

I think in the past century in the U.S., poor people were limited on purpose. I do think that there was a governmental effort to corral poor people and people of color, just to see if they could take it, and maybe so they would die off. And a whole host of awful issues arose instead. Some shady things were going on with drugs being pushed into certain areas, guns, etc. You have to remember that most black people are only here because their ancestors were enslaved. And then when they were freed, people were like "uhh, can't you just disappear?" So that lead to segregation, and so on. It wasn't that long ago. I'm just saying, you push people out of society, they will create their own. If you push them out AND try to squash them down, things get ugly.

But I would say more often than not, real evil kind of people aren't very common. And they can appear at every level. There have always been thieves, whores and murderers. Humans are capable of complete depravity.

Now I'm just rambling, I don't know, this is a heavy topic and I don't know how to say what I'm trying to say. All I know is I don't want to live in a police state, and I think that discrimination against minorities exists, and that a lot of people in authority behave in a racist way. I don't have a solution.

TurdBerglar

12-13-2014, 09:00 PM

I think in the past century in the U.S., poor people were limited on purpose.

you're absolutely right and it's currently being done with the glorification, enabling, and defense of hoodrat culture.

Michelle*s_Farm

12-14-2014, 07:14 PM

you're absolutely right and it's currently being done with the glorification, enabling, and defense of hoodrat culture.

I do not hear the word hoodrat enough. First time was The Hold Steady's "Your Little Hoodrat Friend" (http://youtu.be/8qaX6EBmDJc) :)

RobMoney

12-16-2014, 09:26 AM

Dorothy Wood

12-16-2014, 10:55 AM

Actually you do have a right to resist unlawful arrest. http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

abbott

12-16-2014, 06:33 PM

http://mrconservative.com/2014/12/53788-new-video-mike-brown-assaults-old-man/

What about this. My guess just more bs

Dorothy Wood

12-17-2014, 10:27 AM

http://mrconservative.com/2014/12/53788-new-video-mike-brown-assaults-old-man/

What about this. My guess just more bs

It's not him, it's not true. http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/shawnspall.asp

Also a witness that right wing media keeps referencing, who claimed she saw Mike Brown charging at Wilson like a football player turns out to be a crazy liar who probably wasn't even there. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/unmasking-Ferguson-witness-40-496236

Burnout18

12-21-2014, 11:24 AM

You're really condescending. Anyway I don't believe Wilson's account. Everything you are saying equals "Brown deserved it", and I just don't agree. I think it was an unnecessary altercation that shoudve been handled better.

That's insane to me, that you can just say generic stuff like that and it's acceptable in your mind. How was Darren Wilson supposed to "handle the situation better" if Mike Brown was reaching into his cop car to punch him? That's insane. I think you continue to ignore forensic evidence/witness reports just so you can use this as a starting point for protesting against the police... however Brown was not the guy to make a martyr of. In this case, justice doesn't mean Wilson goes to jail, it means he was allowed to defend himself.

As for the militarization of police, look no further than the ensuing riots that rocked Ferguson. Those riots are going to be prime example of why police departments will need to purchase more gear to protect the public. There's a lot of crying about justice for mike brown, but no one any where gives a shit about the local shop owners.

Cute, try to paint me as intolerant because I don't agree with you. Again the hypocrisy within that suggestion is comical.

Burnout18

12-21-2014, 12:09 PM

...

Burnout18

12-21-2014, 12:14 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/21/us/new-york-police-officers-shot/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

This is the danger of the "cops are bad guys" narrative in the national media. Yesterday a savage animal took the lives of two police officers, killed them at point blank range. The officers were sitting there car working OT on a counterterrorism exercise when this animal approached them and mercilessly executed them. The shooter, Ismaaiyl Brinsley, killed the police officers after posting before and after pictures on his Instagram. Disgusting.

As expected not everyone is saddened by this... here are some of your local NYC protesters chanting "what do we want? Dead cops!" I'm sure these idiots aren't saddened by yesterday's shooting at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8

Are you ok with that? I'm not. This is terrible. I'm not gonna post pics of "protesters" who are holding signs calling for police officer's deaths, you can google that on your own. Let's be honest for a second. A lot of people are protesting because they feel there was an injustice and it's all about race. Bullshit. When you start to break it down, Mike Brown was a violent young man who attacked Wilson first. It's a myth that he was a "gentle giant", even the "hands up" symbol is most likely bullshit.. And there is just enough there to make Eric Gardner's death look like a terrible accident instead of a murder (he had a heart attack, wasn't choked to death/ he was resisting).

YoungRemy

12-21-2014, 04:33 PM

*barf*

the old "where's the outrage?!" routine

I am wholeheartedly disgusted by the actions of a coward like the one last night- he was protesting the recent polarizing police killings of unarmed civilians

the one who participated in the assassination ambush on the Nevada troopers in a Pizza Hut earlier this year- he was a Don't Tread on Me anti government/anti cop/pro gun/pro racist Cliven Bundy supporter

the crazed NYPD cop killer hatchet man - he was a Muslim ISIS supporter

and the fired cop vigilante in California Chris Dorner- he murdered his sergeant's family while trying to exposing police corruption.

lunatics come in all shapes and sizes, driven by different motives.
and the public lines right up on their side of the narrative perfectly.

12 total posters. nailed it.

Merry Christmas Beastie Free Discussion!

Dorothy Wood

12-22-2014, 12:52 PM

That's insane to me, that you can just say generic stuff like that and it's acceptable in your mind. How was Darren Wilson supposed to "handle the situation better" if Mike Brown was reaching into his cop car to punch him? That's insane. I think you continue to ignore forensic evidence/witness reports just so you can use this as a starting point for protesting against the police... however Brown was not the guy to make a martyr of. In this case, justice doesn't mean Wilson goes to jail, it means he was allowed to defend himself.

As for the militarization of police, look no further than the ensuing riots that rocked Ferguson. Those riots are going to be prime example of why police departments will need to purchase more gear to protect the public. There's a lot of crying about justice for mike brown, but no one any where gives a shit about the local shop owners.

Cute, try to paint me as intolerant because I don't agree with you. Again the hypocrisy within that suggestion is comical.

Dude it's insane to me that you think a police officer in a large SUV feared for his life because a person reached in to punch him. Step on the gas, duh.

Also, just as a matter of logic, it doesn't make sense that Brown would decide out of the blue to attack a cop. It does make sense that Wilson antagonized Brown, and Brown's friend who was with them has consistently recalled that Wilson bounced his vehicle door off of them. Does that excuse any sort of altercation that followed? No, but it makes more sense than the idea that Brown just randomly decided to physically engage with a cop who asked him to walk on the sidewalk.

Again, I think it should've been handled better by the person who is supposed to be an authority and in control. He lost control of the situation. It was not professional behavior.

I'm not protesting against police. I'm disagreeing with police tactics.

And good lord, EVERYONE with a privileged point of view like yours is giving so many shits about the local shop owners.

You want more militarized police? Wow, well, you'll make a good little foot soldier for the state if things keep going your way.

It's interesting how it doesn't matter how practically I view this situation, or how much I try to see both sides, or how often I can point out misinformation, people like you just want to believe your own narrative. You can watch people crying in the streets and hundreds of people protesting, and you're disgusted and incredulous instead of actually trying to understand why people are upset. You have no empathy for anyone other than the people who are most like you.

Dorothy Wood

12-22-2014, 01:18 PM

TurdBerglar

12-22-2014, 09:34 PM

that test seems like if it's trying to figure out if you're conservative or liberal. if you consider yourself either one you're probably a fucking asshole.

if you consider yourself any one of the extremes you're probably an asshole.

if you consider yourself a liberal. you're probably a bit of an asshole.
if you consider yourself a conservative. you're probably a bit of an asshole.
if you consider yourself a democrat. you're probably a bit of an asshole.
if you consider yourself a republican. you're probably a bit of an asshole.
if you consider yourself a Christian. you're probably a bit of an asshole.
if you consider yourself an atheist. you're probably a bit of an asshole.
if you strongly align yourself with being white. you're probably a bit of an asshole.
if you strongly align yourself with being black. you're probably a bit of an asshole.

the more you mix those individual things together the bigger of a fucking asshole you probably are.

if you strongly consider yourself a conservative, republican, Christian you're probably a fucking EPIC asshole.

if you strongly consider yourself a liberal, democrat, atheist you're probably a fucking EPIC asshole just as much. no different. while the relaxed people in the middle gotta deal with you crazy retards at both ends of the spectrum.

Burnout18

12-26-2014, 03:53 PM

you should take this quiz: http://www.helloquizzy.com/tests/the-rwa-test

Let me know what you score.

Reasonably Average.

Nothing on the narrative? On the scumbags chanting for more dead cops? Weak. I actually almost went on this whole little rant the week before when those two NYPD lieutenants were assaulted by protestors. Stopped myself. Figured that would get ignored, but oh boy ignoring two cops murdered? That's clinging pretty hard to your bullshit biases.

A couple of nights ago an armed 18 year old African American pulled a gun on a white police officer and pointed it at him. The officer responded by shooting the suspect Antonio Martin dead.... there is CCTV footage of the incident, and multiple angles, including one angle where the copy is retreating and honestly looks completely in fear of his life. Bad Guy pulls gun on cop, cop defends self. No controversy right? WRONG!

There were protests at the gas station where Martin was shot, and would you believe they weren't peaceful protests?

"Some protesters among the angry crowd of between 200 and 300 turned violent early Wednesday morning, setting off explosive devices and throwing bricks and rocks, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said at a press conference."

http://news.yahoo.com/violent-crowd-sets-off-explosives--throws-bricks-after-police-shoots-and-kills-18-year-old-in-missouri-153730065.html

Another result of the bullshit narrative that Darren Wilson "murdered" mike brown. This officer clearly acts in self defense but no one seems to care since everyone is so obsessed with the idea that the police are hunting down black men. I would love to ask, what was that police officer supposed to do in the eyes of those rioters? Ask nicely not to shoot him? Let Martin get one clean shot off first, then defend himself? Get the fuck out. That's insanity.

Also; go ask yourself why Dillon Taylor's story isn't front page news like Mike Brown. I'll tell you why, it doesn't fit the narrative that cops are killing black men, so Taylor's family won't get the airtime Mike Brown's did.

Burnout18

12-26-2014, 03:59 PM

Dude it's insane to me that you think a police officer in a large SUV feared for his life because a person reached in to punch him. Step on the gas, duh.

Also, just as a matter of logic, it doesn't make sense that Brown would decide out of the blue to attack a cop. It does make sense that Wilson antagonized Brown, and Brown's friend who was with them has consistently recalled that Wilson bounced his vehicle door off of them. Does that excuse any sort of altercation that followed? No, but it makes more sense than the idea that Brown just randomly decided to physically engage with a cop who asked him to walk on the sidewalk.

Again, I think it should've been handled better by the person who is supposed to be an authority and in control. He lost control of the situation. It was not professional behavior.

I'm not protesting against police. I'm disagreeing with police tactics.

And good lord, EVERYONE with a privileged point of view like yours is giving so many shits about the local shop owners.

You want more militarized police? Wow, well, you'll make a good little foot soldier for the state if things keep going your way.

It's interesting how it doesn't matter how practically I view this situation, or how much I try to see both sides, or how often I can point out misinformation, people like you just want to believe your own narrative. You can watch people crying in the streets and hundreds of people protesting, and you're disgusted and incredulous instead of actually trying to understand why people are upset. You have no empathy for anyone other than the people who are most like you.

It doesn't matter that the Wilson was in his car, Brown had reached into the vehicle, penetrating any vulnerability that an SUV provided. Step on the gas? Imagine if Wilson took off with Brown hanging on the side of his car? That's totally against protocol, DUH. Plus thats assuming the SUV wasn't in park (it must have been if Wilson was bouncing the door off Brown and Johnson, right?). A few extra seconds to switch the car into gear, while someone is punching you? Yeah that scenario makes little sense DUH. Actually that endangers Wilson, Brown and anyone else on the road (pedestrian or vehicle) instead of the just the aggressor, Mr. Brown. OMG imagine if Wilson had hit an innocent bystander, or guy on a bike. Looks like you didn't think that through.

You think it's out of the blue for Brown to randomly hit a cop? Of course you do, you've been ignoring Brown's past. Dude has a couple assaults as a youth and just jacked up a store owner because, you know, fuck paying for shit. He definitely has violent tendencies. He's a big fucking bully! Even if words were exchanged Brown reaches into a cop car to grab a gun. It's game over right there. This isn't about race, or police tactics, its about a violent young man assaulting an officer and grabbing the officers gun. Dude didn't even die with his hands up. Even the mere symbol of the protests is based on a lie.

And the end of the day, this shooting looks more justified than not. You do NOT need a gun to kill someone. A large man can beat another large man to death. I feel compelled to tell you those things because I don't think you are aware of that.

I am not surprised how you just brushed off my comments on the riots and local business owners with that classic auto-bot responses like "privileged" and "foot soldier." It's easier to spit out automated responses then actually think something through and address it, but hey, do what you gotta do to tell yourself you're still righteous.

Dorothy Wood

12-27-2014, 07:39 PM

Reasonably Average.

Nothing on the narrative? On the scumbags chanting for more dead cops? Weak. I actually almost went on this whole little rant the week before when those two NYPD lieutenants were assaulted by protestors. Stopped myself. Figured that would get ignored, but oh boy ignoring two cops murdered? That's clinging pretty hard to your bullshit biases.

A couple of nights ago an armed 18 year old African American pulled a gun on a white police officer and pointed it at him. The officer responded by shooting the suspect Antonio Martin dead.... there is CCTV footage of the incident, and multiple angles, including one angle where the copy is retreating and honestly looks completely in fear of his life. Bad Guy pulls gun on cop, cop defends self. No controversy right? WRONG!

There were protests at the gas station where Martin was shot, and would you believe they weren't peaceful protests?

"Some protesters among the angry crowd of between 200 and 300 turned violent early Wednesday morning, setting off explosive devices and throwing bricks and rocks, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said at a press conference."

http://news.yahoo.com/violent-crowd-sets-off-explosives--throws-bricks-after-police-shoots-and-kills-18-year-old-in-missouri-153730065.html

Another result of the bullshit narrative that Darren Wilson "murdered" mike brown. This officer clearly acts in self defense but no one seems to care since everyone is so obsessed with the idea that the police are hunting down black men. I would love to ask, what was that police officer supposed to do in the eyes of those rioters? Ask nicely not to shoot him? Let Martin get one clean shot off first, then defend himself? Get the fuck out. That's insanity.

Also; go ask yourself why Dillon Taylor's story isn't front page news like Mike Brown. I'll tell you why, it doesn't fit the narrative that cops are killing black men, so Taylor's family won't get the airtime Mike Brown's did.

I don't think you took the quiz. Unless you did and you got 50%? I got 9%, I was just seeing if I could figure out the disconnect. Probably personality differences. Difference in life experience. You seem like an authoritarian leaning person who really trusts the system. I don't. That's all I was getting at...though I did frame it in a condescending manner because we are arguing.

I think the chanting was an isolated incident. I don't think the guy who killed the cops did so because he heard the chanting. I don't think he was an "animal", I think he was a disturbed person and he had a history of attempted suicide, and he found an excuse to act out and take his own life in the process. He also killed his girlfriend...which you didn't think to mention because you are upset about the cop part? Am I upset that a man killed two random people because they were cops? yes. I have not ignored that, it is disturbing. Do I think the protesting caused it? Not really, I think the anger was there, is there, with a lot of people. He took a big step and crossed the line. Anyone I know who is protesting on the side of peace and non-violence, does not feel good about what he did.

As for Antonio Martin...obviously you can't threaten police with a gun. I don't know what happened there, but I still think it's nuts that police just pull up to situations and fire guns within seconds...but, I think the police response to the protests were improved in this situation. They didn't make a big show of force, and the local politicians responded quickly as well.

As for Dillon Taylor, it's the same situation. The cop shot someone out of fear. He failed to deescalate a situation, he took a life because he guessed wrong. It's not front page news because the media is a big steaming pile of money-making horseshit. And you're right, it doesn't fit the narrative they're selling. It does fit the narrative of reality though, the one I'm pissed about, that cops and the system are out-of-bounds with how they handle citizens and potential threats with excessive force!

Dorothy Wood

12-27-2014, 07:48 PM

It doesn't matter that the Wilson was in his car, Brown had reached into the vehicle, penetrating any vulnerability that an SUV provided. Step on the gas? Imagine if Wilson took off with Brown hanging on the side of his car? That's totally against protocol, DUH. Plus thats assuming the SUV wasn't in park (it must have been if Wilson was bouncing the door off Brown and Johnson, right?). A few extra seconds to switch the car into gear, while someone is punching you? Yeah that scenario makes little sense DUH. Actually that endangers Wilson, Brown and anyone else on the road (pedestrian or vehicle) instead of the just the aggressor, Mr. Brown. OMG imagine if Wilson had hit an innocent bystander, or guy on a bike. Looks like you didn't think that through.

You think it's out of the blue for Brown to randomly hit a cop? Of course you do, you've been ignoring Brown's past. Dude has a couple assaults as a youth and just jacked up a store owner because, you know, fuck paying for shit. He definitely has violent tendencies. He's a big fucking bully! Even if words were exchanged Brown reaches into a cop car to grab a gun. It's game over right there. This isn't about race, or police tactics, its about a violent young man assaulting an officer and grabbing the officers gun. Dude didn't even die with his hands up. Even the mere symbol of the protests is based on a lie.

And the end of the day, this shooting looks more justified than not. You do NOT need a gun to kill someone. A large man can beat another large man to death. I feel compelled to tell you those things because I don't think you are aware of that.

I am not surprised how you just brushed off my comments on the riots and local business owners with that classic auto-bot responses like "privileged" and "foot soldier." It's easier to spit out automated responses then actually think something through and address it, but hey, do what you gotta do to tell yourself you're still righteous.

Sorry, but I'm from Detroit, if someone is carjacking you, you just fucking hit the gas*. If you think that someone has the aim to shoot and the finger strength to hold on to a moving vehicle, you don't understand physics.

Yeah, it's so weird how I never think about small business when I manage and produce hundreds of thousands of dollars of product a year working for small business owners in a storefront that I am in charge of all the time. I mean like, when I'm scraping graffiti off the window, I'm such a dumb liberal that I don't even care, the graffiti person just probably didn't have a good childhood *sheds tear* :rolleyes:

I'm not a dumb ass, I live in the world. The world is fucked up. I'm going to speak out when there is injustice. Oppression exists.

*you know who told me that? a cop!

Burnout18

12-28-2014, 10:35 PM

I don't think you took the quiz. Unless you did and you got 50%? I got 9%, I was just seeing if I could figure out the disconnect. Probably personality differences. Difference in life experience. You seem like an authoritarian leaning person who really trusts the system. I don't. That's all I was getting at...though I did frame it in a condescending manner because we are arguing.

I think the chanting was an isolated incident. I don't think the guy who killed the cops did so because he heard the chanting. I don't think he was an "animal", I think he was a disturbed person and he had a history of attempted suicide, and he found an excuse to act out and take his own life in the process. He also killed his girlfriend...which you didn't think to mention because you are upset about the cop part? Am I upset that a man killed two random people because they were cops? yes. I have not ignored that, it is disturbing. Do I think the protesting caused it? Not really, I think the anger was there, is there, with a lot of people. He took a big step and crossed the line. Anyone I know who is protesting on the side of peace and non-violence, does not feel good about what he did.

As for Antonio Martin...obviously you can't threaten police with a gun. I don't know what happened there, but I still think it's nuts that police just pull up to situations and fire guns within seconds...but, I think the police response to the protests were improved in this situation. They didn't make a big show of force, and the local politicians responded quickly as well.

As for Dillon Taylor, it's the same situation. The cop shot someone out of fear. He failed to deescalate a situation, he took a life because he guessed wrong. It's not front page news because the media is a big steaming pile of money-making horseshit. And you're right, it doesn't fit the narrative they're selling. It does fit the narrative of reality though, the one I'm pissed about, that cops and the system are out-of-bounds with how they handle citizens and potential threats with excessive force!

Oh, my bad. The quiz said I was "Reasonably Average" with 27% RW, It's promoting some book, and said I would be both intrigued and irritated by parts of said book.

Ismaaiyl Brinsley shot and killed his girlfriend then got on a bus, went to NYPD to execute two cops and you don't think that's the behavior of a savage animal? That's disgusting, unacceptable and inexcusable. He was a career criminal with over 15 arrests and the best his family can say to defend him was he didn't get the help he needed. Get the fuck out of here with that, they are looking to soften the fact he was a terrible person and a scumbag. Did you see his instagram? The before picture included the #RIPMikeBrown #RIPEricGarner . Sorry but the bullshit narrative got to this animal. And even if you want to call the assaults on the lieutenants and the chants for dead cops isolated incidents, then man, you gotta get out there and check some of these protests yourself. Not the friendliest, peaceful bunch, at least not the ones in NYC.

As for martin, the police pulled up in a situation and started questioning youths, Martin pulled the gun first, complete self defense on the part of the cop. There's nothing "nuts" about the action of the officer in that situation. Still don't know why there were people protesting when Martin was the aggressor, but guess we shouldn't be surprised they weren't peaceful.

I have no problem calling bullshit when I see bullshit, and I like to judge things case by case. Out of Mike Bown, Eric Garner, Martin, the 12 year old who pulled a toy gun on some cops in ohio, and Dillon taylor, Taylor's case is easily the most egregious example of police brutality. Taylor had no weapon, wasn't even facing the cop, he was walking away!..... yet his shooting and the grand jury indictment came and went and there was minimal mention of it in the national news. It's sad that his race (as well as the fact the cop wasn't white) is playing a role in the lack of attention. Sad but it goes to show you the biases matter more than the truth... probably why Mike Brown was essentially made a martyr when he totally shouldn't have been.

Burnout18

12-28-2014, 10:48 PM

Sorry, but I'm from Detroit, if someone is carjacking you, you just fucking hit the gas*. If you think that someone has the aim to shoot and the finger strength to hold on to a moving vehicle, you don't understand physics.

Yeah, it's so weird how I never think about small business when I manage and produce hundreds of thousands of dollars of product a year working for small business owners in a storefront that I am in charge of all the time. I mean like, when I'm scraping graffiti off the window, I'm such a dumb liberal that I don't even care, the graffiti person just probably didn't have a good childhood *sheds tear* :rolleyes:

I'm not a dumb ass, I live in the world. The world is fucked up. I'm going to speak out when there is injustice. Oppression exists.

*you know who told me that? a cop!

Even if that is advice from a cop, I still think it is naïve for someone to apply civilian mentality to an officer of the law. I maintain that Brown hanging onto the car while Wilson drives away is probably against all protocol, plus we don't know traffic or pedestrians on the road. Unlike an unarmed civilian, Wilson has an obligation to stop a someone committing a crime, which brown was doing.

I don't understand the need for the sarcastic paragraph. I asked you about justice for the local business owners who had their livelihoods attacked and you responded by something about be being privileged. You sidestepped that again with the :rolleyes: post.... so let me ask you, do you even care for the store owners? Is that written off as expense for the cause? Do you consider looting and rioting acceptable considering circumstances?

Dorothy Wood

12-29-2014, 09:52 AM

Sorry, calling someone an "animal" is just hyperbole to me. He was a mentally ill man, he did terrible things. You're making him into a super villain.

The store owners will be fine.

JoLovesMCA

12-29-2014, 02:25 PM

1. You have the right to defend yourself in a court of law against any charges. but you DO NOT have the right to resist arrest.

2. The police were asked to do something about Eric Garner selling illegal cigarettes by the local shop owner who's business was being hurt by Eric Garner sitting outside their shop.

3.Eric Garner and Michael Brown were not killed for committing minor legal infractions. They were killed because they were resisting arrest. It drives me nuts when people say they didn't deserve to lose their lives for stealing cigars or selling illegal cigarettes.
I agree, they didn't deserve to lose their lives, but that's what happens when you're committing a crime. Things spiral out of control. They lost their lives because they resisted arrest.

4. "Oh, why didn't Officer Wilson shoot Michael Brown in the leg or arm to injure him to stop him. He didn't have to kill him"
As if a Officer Wilson had all this time to carefully plan where he should shoot. When a man is charging at you with the intent to take your gun and kill you, you have mere seconds to make a decision. You shoot to stop the threat and defend your own life. You don't have time to sit there and decide which body part you're going to aim for.

Great posts. Cops do not have all of the time in the world. It's apart of their training that they don't. They are in a position to make a life or death decision. People's lack of understanding or respect of the law is why these things keep happening. We are a nation built on laws. Police are not peacekeepers, they out there risking their lives every day to protect us. So the ones who steal from us aren't risking their lives either?

It makes no difference if they were young and black or if they are some sicko white kid blowing away a bunch of innocent kids at a school. Violence is violence. imo.........

These are the crimes Brown committed in 2013 before this whole incident.
Burglary 1st Degree [Felony B RSMo: 569.160
Armed Criminal Action [Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015
Assault 1st Degree Serious Physical Injury [Felony A RSMo: 565.050
Armed Criminal Action [Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015

This "unarmed teenager," as the liberal media like to portray Michael Brown used his size to intimidate others and he paid the price for it. I feel bad that there are many more like him. I hope they get a chance to turn their lives around before it is too late. Police obviously are still going to defend themseves despite what Sharpton and his minions and the media are trying to spin.

Dorothy Wood

12-29-2014, 03:29 PM

Great posts. Cops do not have all of the time in the world. It's apart of their training that they don't. They are in a position to make a life or death decision. People's lack of understanding or respect of the law is why these things keep happening. We are a nation built on laws. Police are not peacekeepers, they out there risking their lives every day to protect us. So the ones who steal from us aren't risking their lives either?

It makes no difference if they were young and black or if they are some sicko white kid blowing away a bunch of innocent kids at a school. Violence is violence. imo.........

These are the crimes Brown committed in 2013 before this whole incident.
Burglary 1st Degree [Felony B RSMo: 569.160
Armed Criminal Action [Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015
Assault 1st Degree Serious Physical Injury [Felony A RSMo: 565.050
Armed Criminal Action [Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015

This "unarmed teenager," as the liberal media like to portray Michael Brown used his size to intimidate others and he paid the price for it. I feel bad that there are many more like him. I hope they get a chance to turn their lives around before it is too late. Police obviously are still going to defend themseves despite what Sharpton and his minions and the media are trying to spin.

Yeah, uh, that arrest record is phony. I hope you get a chance to turn your life around and stop spreading false information and half baked theories.

JoLovesMCA

12-29-2014, 03:50 PM

Yeah, uh, that arrest record is phony. I hope you get a chance to turn your life around and stop spreading false information and half baked theories.

Who said it is false? Where are you getting your information/facts from? I mean if you want your point to be taken seriously I would include information like that instead of getting offended. I search for information and I don't just sit and believe everything I'm told.

Let's say you are right. Let's say the kid was a perfect kid, never hurt anyone or committed any crime. Does that disprove the 70 hours of evidence and witness testimony? Was he set up? Are all of these kids really set up? I don't think so.

Dorothy Wood

12-29-2014, 08:23 PM

Who said it is false? Where are you getting your information/facts from? I mean if you want your point to be taken seriously I would include information like that instead of getting offended. I search for information and I don't just sit and believe everything I'm told.

Let's say you are right. Let's say the kid was a perfect kid, never hurt anyone or committed any crime. Does that disprove the 70 hours of evidence and witness testimony? Was he set up? Are all of these kids really set up? I don't think so.

You could have looked it up. It took me two seconds to find this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/brown.asp

Never ever ever nowhere ever did I ever say "the kid was a perfect kid, never hurt anyone or committed any crime." In no way did I say that at all. You are putting words in my mouth. I said the arrest record you posted was false, because it is definitely false.

I wouldn't put too much stock in witness testimony: http://wwlp.com/2014/12/16/ferguson-witnesses-admit-they-lied-to-the-grand-jury/

I have no idea why you're asking "was he set up? Are all of these kids really set up?" No one said that either. You are so far away from the actual discussion, it's mind blowing.

TurdBerglar

12-29-2014, 09:12 PM

your second link there is report from one of my very local news stations...

weird

Dorothy Wood

12-30-2014, 10:56 AM

Oh, my bad. The quiz said I was "Reasonably Average" with 27% RW, It's promoting some book, and said I would be both intrigued and irritated by parts of said book.

Ismaaiyl Brinsley shot and killed his girlfriend then got on a bus, went to NYPD to execute two cops and you don't think that's the behavior of a savage animal? That's disgusting, unacceptable and inexcusable. He was a career criminal with over 15 arrests and the best his family can say to defend him was he didn't get the help he needed. Get the fuck out of here with that, they are looking to soften the fact he was a terrible person and a scumbag. Did you see his instagram? The before picture included the #RIPMikeBrown #RIPEricGarner . Sorry but the bullshit narrative got to this animal. And even if you want to call the assaults on the lieutenants and the chants for dead cops isolated incidents, then man, you gotta get out there and check some of these protests yourself. Not the friendliest, peaceful bunch, at least not the ones in NYC.

As for martin, the police pulled up in a situation and started questioning youths, Martin pulled the gun first, complete self defense on the part of the cop. There's nothing "nuts" about the action of the officer in that situation. Still don't know why there were people protesting when Martin was the aggressor, but guess we shouldn't be surprised they weren't peaceful.

I have no problem calling bullshit when I see bullshit, and I like to judge things case by case. Out of Mike Bown, Eric Garner, Martin, the 12 year old who pulled a toy gun on some cops in ohio, and Dillon taylor, Taylor's case is easily the most egregious example of police brutality. Taylor had no weapon, wasn't even facing the cop, he was walking away!..... yet his shooting and the grand jury indictment came and went and there was minimal mention of it in the national news. It's sad that his race (as well as the fact the cop wasn't white) is playing a role in the lack of attention. Sad but it goes to show you the biases matter more than the truth... probably why Mike Brown was essentially made a martyr when he totally shouldn't have been.

Ask yourself why you're not trotting out Dillon Taylor's arrest record, and you'll find your own bias.

Dorothy Wood

12-30-2014, 10:57 AM

your second link there is report from one of my very local news stations...

weird

:eek:

JoLovesMCA

12-30-2014, 11:54 AM

You could have looked it up. It took me two seconds to find this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/brown.asp

Never ever ever nowhere ever did I ever say "the kid was a perfect kid, never hurt anyone or committed any crime." In no way did I say that at all. You are putting words in my mouth. I said the arrest record you posted was false, because it is definitely false.

I wouldn't put too much stock in witness testimony: http://wwlp.com/2014/12/16/ferguson-witnesses-admit-they-lied-to-the-grand-jury/

I have no idea why you're asking "was he set up? Are all of these kids really set up?" No one said that either. You are so far away from the actual discussion, it's mind blowing.

Well I made the “set up” remark because protestors, looters etc… seem to think cops have it out for black kids. That is the narrative that is being spun heavily in the media. RACISM, black kid thugs deserve to die. That is what I am talking about.

And I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I said "LET'S SAY" he was the perfect kid. Perfect kids as we know do very cruel things too.

And I read your argument. You said the officer was unprofessional and didn’t handle the situation like he should have. What would you have done? This isn't a movie where the cop has a minute to kick away a gun or two and shout some cool lines at the bad guy.

I agree the whole thing is tragic but whether the officer handled it perfect or not I don’t think it’s very smart to attack a police officer. You believe it was the other way around though right? You believe the narrative that MB after robbing a store was just minding his own business. He imo had his blood pumping after he attacked that store owner, so having a cop question him probably angered him!

I am sure if he had said yes sir, no sir and complied the kid would be alive right now! But you believe that Wilson was the one who attacked MB so only thing I can say to that is that I don’t see any credible evidence to prove that argument. Grand Jury was even brought in and still people aren’t happy.

Dorothy Wood

12-30-2014, 01:50 PM

Cops do have it out for black kids. Just look up the arrest statistics.

Once I even saw a cop car purposely drive fast through a puddle and soak a group of black kids waiting for a bus. That's just one tiny example indicative of the lack of respect cops have for black youth.

TurdBerglar

12-30-2014, 09:53 PM

Cops do have it out for black kids. Just look up the arrest statistics.

I don't believe this to be true. well at least for around here.

Lets a take a fairly benign scenario... Jaywalking.
In our metro downtown area there's a problem with pedestrians getting hit and seriously injured/killed by cars(all of MA is kinda notorious for that). Most of the people getting hit and killed by cars happen to be Puerto Rican. for whatever reason the majority of the people getting hit are Puerto Rican.

There starts to be grumblings about racism. OH THE DRIVERS AREN'T SLOWING DOWN BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT PUERTO RICANS. OH THE CITY ISN'T DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT PUERTO RICANS AND WOULD HAVE FIXED THE PROBLEM IF IT WERE WHITE PEOPLE GETTING HIT. Maybe... just maybe... for whatever reason there's just a lot of Puerto Ricans that are reckless jaywalkers and it's their fault for running out into traffic.

So now they're considering handing out jaywalking tickets to try to dissuade people from running out into the road. But all that's gonna do is make people think the cops are picking on the Puerto Ricans because they're mostly the only ones getting harassed for jaywalking more than anyone else. THE RACIST COPS ONLY HASSLING THE PUERTO RICANS. well the blacks aren't jaywalking, the whites aren't jaywalking, the Russians and Asians aren't jaywalking. so what the fuck? what do you expect? to just let them keep recklessly jaywalking and getting killed?

that attitude of false claims of racism persists and I think THAT attitude is more destructive than actual racism.

again though, this isn't the south or the Midwest. things seem MUCH more fucked up around there.

now lets take a more destructive scenario... Heroine.

There's been a huge uptick in Heroin overdoses around here. People killing themselves with Heroin. People getting harassed and busted for Heroin possession. Most of these people are white. but no one is screaming racism about that? how come? are these two scenarios really that much different?

I think this thought process is the reason why many people don't take claims of racism very seriously anymore. people are crying wolf and trying to make other people feel bad about it.

Dorothy Wood

12-31-2014, 12:10 PM

I wish only puerto ricans jaywalked here! This city is rife with reckless jaywalkers of all ages and races and socioeconomic levels.

I understand what you're talking about, but although it's destructive, I don't think crying wolf on racism is more destructive than racism. I used to have a black student who called me racist a lot, pretty much any time I asked him to do anything, and it sucked. I finally had to just have a meeting with him to be like "why do you think I'm racist? Do you actually think I'm racist?" and we talked about how it was a serious accusation and made light of actual racism. It was a good talk, and the accusations stopped. Im just one person and that was just one talk. Not sure everyone is receptive to just sitting and talking through how and why they feel like victims of racism with the people they're accusing of racism.

I'm not sure of the situation where you live, the background of why puerto ricans feel like victims of racism.... I'm not personally around any puerto ricans who talk about it. I knew one kid who looked very white but is half puerto rican, so he hung a puerto rican flag from his rear view mirror, and promptly began getting pulled over all the time, so he took it down. That's some definite police prejudice right there. But I mean, the vast majority of gang members on this side of town are puerto rican, so what are cops supposed to do? I can see both sides. It would be very demoralizing to be targeted by police all the time just because a few people who share your ethnicity created a gang culture, but that gang culture requires policing.

However, I think ultimately gangs started as a way to survive in reaction to lack of opportunity, or active oppression by the dominant culture. BUT, nowadays, gangs in my neighborhood piss me off because I know these kids have opportunities, they have homes, they have food. It's nonsense to me, they're barely even organized anymore, they just fight over random things because they're amped up teenagers. And maybe their parents are gang members, so they just keep the cycle going. I dunno. My puerto rican neighbors keep to themselves, they have family parties, hang out in their yards and BBQ and drink beers. Everything gets wrapped up by 10 pm generally. The moms always sound mad though, always yelling and complaining, ha. Probably because they're doing all the work.

I think I got off track...anyway, lots of different dynamics happening, my general point is that people should communicate more across cultures. And I'm trying to talk with you guys about this stuff because I don't understand why your points of view are so black and white (no pun intended). I guess I've just lived in a lot of different types of places, and I grew up with black people, but I don't really know many black people as an adult because my city is so segregated. And I know that a lot of white people seem scared of black people in a way that I don't. I think a lot of white people pin certain criminal behaviors on race, when it's really just an issue of culture, circumstance. I also feel like racists are obsessed with race in a way that I don't understand. I just recently met my mom's husband's family at thanksgiving and my mom warned me that they were casual racists, and boy howdy, they were. The weird thing is, the older folks just kept bringing up black people whenever there was a lull in conversation. Like we're watching football and one grandma is like "I dont like how the black players wear their hair, they shouldnt be allowed to have long hair", and you can just see her sitting their watching and hating and trying to bring up other things she dislikes about black people. Every time, my mom was like "what's that over there!" and changed the conversation. We were out in the middle of nowhere on farmland, there were no black people for miles...so what the fuck? Why would black people be at the forefront of their thoughts all the time? It was weird. and it's a mentality that isn't uncommon. Racism is alive and well in many communities.

Dorothy Wood

12-31-2014, 12:21 PM

now lets take a more destructive scenario... Heroine.

There's been a huge uptick in Heroin overdoses around here. People killing themselves with Heroin. People getting harassed and busted for Heroin possession. Most of these people are white. but no one is screaming racism about that? how come? are these two scenarios really that much different?

I think this thought process is the reason why many people don't take claims of racism very seriously anymore. people are crying wolf and trying to make other people feel bad about it.

Regarding the heroin...well, it's pretty common for white people to only get in trouble for hard drugs. When my friend worked in kid jail, most of the black kids in for drugs were in for pot and when she counseled them, she found they generally never did harder drugs. The white kids in for drugs, were in for coke/meth/heroin/pills, and they were trying every substance under the sun before they got in trouble.

So there's a double standard there...which ironically is keeping the black kids off harder drugs, but letting white kids spiral out of control.

TurdBerglar

12-31-2014, 03:27 PM

I understand what you're talking about, but although it's destructive, I don't think crying wolf on racism is more destructive than racism.

yeah it is because it's making racists more racist and the race baiters bigger baiters. those two groups are the problem. they keep feeding the problem making it bigger than what it already is. it's always the small percentage of crazy vocal people on the opposite ends of the spectrum fighting with each other that cause all the problems(democrats vs republicans, liberals vs conservatives, etc). dividing people more. and the people in the middle(that are the large majority and thus could actually make a actual difference culturally) are all like... fuck this false nonsense! and just stop caring about the situation all together because it doesn't effect them because it looks like complete conjured up bullshit to them.

Burnout18

01-02-2015, 01:55 PM

Ask yourself why you're not trotting out Dillon Taylor's arrest record, and you'll find your own bias.

Because there's a body camera recording of the incident. There is minimal need for speculation on the incident, and we do not need to dig into Taylor's past to understand his mindset at the time of the incident. We kinda had to recreate the Brown/Wilson incident, and that's why the assault on the shop owner moments before the shooting is important. There mere fact YOU said "it doesn't make sense that Brown would decide out of the blue to attack a cop" is the exact reason why Brown's past is important. Cause, well, it kinda makes sense that he'd do that.

But I get it, I get where you were going, trying to say that I only care about the white kid who got shot and not the black kid. How dare you suggest I'm a racist, that's a very dishonest assumption. You have to get over yourself. You aren't the heroic white light shining truth on racism. This isn't 1965 and you aren't the lone white person marching with Dr. King, stop acting like it. While real racism still exists today, people like you are definitely part of the problem of the crooked narrative on race. It was no surprise that you were the first one to scream race in this thread and it's no surprise that you are hinting that I'm intolerant. Witness Testimony and Forensic Evidence, back up Wilson's side of the story. Facts. Science.

For the record, When this story first broke, I thought "aww bullshit, they killed an unarmed kid with his hands up?" But I remained silent. Know why? After the Trayvon Martin case, I finally started to believe that the media exaggerates or flat out lies. Go back and look in the political archives. I was the first one to post about Martin and how I thought it was bullshit and zimmeran was overzealous and what not. But as more facts came out, the pictures of Zims head, I started to see that even thought it might not have been justified, at least the media misled the public...... Fast forward back to Mike Brown, and sure enough as more facts came out I felt suckered and duped and generally changed my opinion on the case. Can you do that? Can you admit you were initially wrong on something? Or are you prejudices and biases too strong?

Burnout18

01-02-2015, 01:57 PM

Sorry, calling someone an "animal" is just hyperbole to me. He was a mentally ill man, he did terrible things. You're making him into a super villain.

The store owners will be fine.

Savage fucking animal. And no he wasn't mentally ill. Like I said, that's the lame ass defense his family came up with. It's ok Dorothy, you can call a ruthless murderer an animal, no one will accuse you of racism.

Burnout18

01-02-2015, 02:07 PM

These are the crimes Brown committed in 2013 before this whole incident.
Burglary 1st Degree [Felony B RSMo: 569.160
Armed Criminal Action [Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015
Assault 1st Degree Serious Physical Injury [Felony A RSMo: 565.050
Armed Criminal Action [Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015

This "unarmed teenager," as the liberal media like to portray Michael Brown used his size to intimidate others and he paid the price for it. I feel bad that there are many more like him. I hope they get a chance to turn their lives around before it is too late. Police obviously are still going to defend themseves despite what Sharpton and his minions and the media are trying to spin.

FYI Brown's juvenile record is sealed. The St. Louis dispatch sued to have it opened to the public, but a judge denied that approval. A county clerk said there were not class A or Class B felonies, leaving us with Class C felonies .... this criminal record that is floating around the internet is not Mike Brown's juvy record.

However we need not look further than actual video footage of Brown strong arming the store owner to corroborate your opinion being a bully and using his size to intimidate. Gentle Giant? Not the day he met up with Wilson, anyways.

Dorothy Wood

01-03-2015, 08:06 PM

Because there's a body camera recording of the incident. There is minimal need for speculation on the incident, and we do not need to dig into Taylor's past to understand his mindset at the time of the incident. We kinda had to recreate the Brown/Wilson incident, and that's why the assault on the shop owner moments before the shooting is important. There mere fact YOU said "it doesn't make sense that Brown would decide out of the blue to attack a cop" is the exact reason why Brown's past is important. Cause, well, it kinda makes sense that he'd do that.

But I get it, I get where you were going, trying to say that I only care about the white kid who got shot and not the black kid. How dare you suggest I'm a racist, that's a very dishonest assumption. You have to get over yourself. You aren't the heroic white light shining truth on racism. This isn't 1965 and you aren't the lone white person marching with Dr. King, stop acting like it. While real racism still exists today, people like you are definitely part of the problem of the crooked narrative on race. It was no surprise that you were the first one to scream race in this thread and it's no surprise that you are hinting that I'm intolerant. Witness Testimony and Forensic Evidence, back up Wilson's side of the story. Facts. Science.

For the record, When this story first broke, I thought "aww bullshit, they killed an unarmed kid with his hands up?" But I remained silent. Know why? After the Trayvon Martin case, I finally started to believe that the media exaggerates or flat out lies. Go back and look in the political archives. I was the first one to post about Martin and how I thought it was bullshit and zimmeran was overzealous and what not. But as more facts came out, the pictures of Zims head, I started to see that even thought it might not have been justified, at least the media misled the public...... Fast forward back to Mike Brown, and sure enough as more facts came out I felt suckered and duped and generally changed my opinion on the case. Can you do that? Can you admit you were initially wrong on something? Or are you prejudices and biases too strong?

I very rarely feel suckered. And I don't feel like I'm wrong here. What have I been wrong on? So far I still think Wilson handled the situation unprofessionally, I think that leaving a body out for hours is disrespectful, I don't agree with militarized police, I think the show of military force exacerbated the angry reaction of the citizens, and I think this is just one incident of a cop using deadly force against a black person because they value their life less...either by active prejudice, or subconscious prejudice.

I can tell that you very much like rules, and you hate lying, because you keep calling me "dishonest". Not sure what I have to gain by lying, I feel I've been very straightforward.

I do think that you are more upset about Dillon Taylor because he is white. Because the video shows that Dillon was walking with two other dudes, saw the cop pull up, and decided to walk away and ignore the cop. Should the cop have just shot him? NO. But he, like the other victims we've been talking about, was "resisting arrest" if we're using the same criteria. And because Taylor had an active warrant for his arrest, it makes sense that he would try to slip out of sight. He even posted stuff on fb days before, "i'll die before i go do a lot of time in a cell":
http://fox13now.com/2014/08/12/south-salt-lake-man-shot-by-police-posted-eerie-message-days-before-death/

I'm talking about cause and effect here. This case shouldn't have ended with a shooting death either, but you decided to weigh the situations and call this one the "most egregious", and I do not understand why it would be any more or less egregious than the others. All of the situations involve a cop overreacting and killing someone.

And it doesn't add up to me that Brown attacked Wilson out of the blue. I still believe Johnson's account that Wilson was shitty to Brown and Johnson, and Brown retaliated...because it makes the most sense. Should they have been walking in the street? no. Should they have stolen cigarillos? no. Should Brown have started or reacted to an altercation with a cop? no. Should Wilson have believed Brown was superhuman and could run through bullets? no. Should a cop be allowed to gun someone down in a residential neighborhood without seeing a weapon, or trying any other method to stop the person? no.

See I think that Darren Wilson consciously or subconsciously knew he could just kill a black man and get away with it, so he did, without trying anything else to contain the situation. I'm not him, and I think he probably was scared, but I really haven't wavered in my opinion that he overreacted. My goal here is to say that there should be other ways to handle these things, without resorting to deadly force. And even you think Mike Brown was a scumbag or "thug" as delicate white people like to say, I don't want cops running around shooting people because they're scared. I think it's wrong, I just do, sorry you don't agree.

Savage fucking animal. And no he wasn't mentally ill. Like I said, that's the lame ass defense his family came up with. It's ok Dorothy, you can call a ruthless murderer an animal, no one will accuse you of racism.

He was depressed, depression is mental disorder. You seem very intent on making people into monsters. They're just people, monsters don't exist. Sorry, I'm just not prone to that type of hyperbole. It is very terrible that two lives were taken. A lot of innocent people are killed every day. I'm saddened by it all.

Dorothy Wood

01-03-2015, 08:28 PM

yeah it is because it's making racists more racist and the race baiters bigger baiters. those two groups are the problem. they keep feeding the problem making it bigger than what it already is. it's always the small percentage of crazy vocal people on the opposite ends of the spectrum fighting with each other that cause all the problems(democrats vs republicans, liberals vs conservatives, etc). dividing people more. and the people in the middle(that are the large majority and thus could actually make a actual difference culturally) are all like... fuck this false nonsense! and just stop caring about the situation all together because it doesn't effect them because it looks like complete conjured up bullshit to them.

Eh, I don't know. I think crying wolf happens less than you're saying. But it is frustrating to hear/read opinions that are clearly skewed or "crying wolf", to claim victimization. Recently I read a blog/essay by a young black woman who basically was saying that there's no way to help or...and trying to understand how black people feel is not possible and actually offensive. And that's fine...that's her opinion, but like she went to really good colleges and is trying to be a writer for a living, which is a very privileged position to be in...so it kinda just seemed like she was amping up her outrage so she would get more clicks on her blog. It seemed more about her than the actual cause of equality.

Anyway, the media loves reporting on extremes. I don't think that will ever end. Loud people do make changes though. I was watching this series on the mob, and one of the bosses was involved in Italian-American civil rights...and I was like "what?" and they showed footage of rallies and signs being carried, protests, all in support of civil rights for Italians-Americans. Well, I mean, I've heard derogatory terms for Italians...like back in the 80's, or in movies, but nobody today would say that Italians are discriminated against. I don't know if protesting made that happen, or if people just stopped caring though. It just caught my eye.

TurdBerglar

01-03-2015, 09:00 PM

both irish and Italian immigrants were hated pretty badly. there use to be irish and Italian ghettos all over the north east. they just REALLY wanted to become and to be thought of as americans and they were very thankful of america so they eventually assimilated(back when assimilating wasn't seen as evil....) and grew up and grew out of their ghettos so now it's not really a problem.

it probably wasn't protesting. the rest of the population probably stopped caring as they adopted more of an American lifestyle and stopped doing ghetto bullshit.

TurdBerglar

01-03-2015, 09:15 PM

The development of ghettos in America is closely associated with different waves of immigration and internal urban migration. The Irish and German immigrants of the mid-19th century were the first ethnic groups to form ethnic enclaves in America's cities. This was followed by large numbers of immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe, including many Italians and Poles between 1880 and 1920. These later European immigrants were more segregated than blacks in the early twentieth century.[8] Most of these remained in their established immigrant communities, but by the second or third generation, many families were able to relocate to better housing in the suburbs after World War II.

These ethnic ghetto areas included the Lower East Side in Manhattan, New York, which later became notable as predominantly Jewish, and East Harlem, which became home to a large Puerto Rican community in the 1950s. Little Italys across the country were predominantly Italian ghettos. Many Polish immigrants moved to sections like Pilsen of Chicago and Polish Hill of Pittsburgh and Brighton Beach is the home of mostly Russian and Ukrainian immigrants.[citation needed]

Also, during the Great Depression, many people would congregate in large open parking lots. They built shelters out of whatever materials they could find at the time. These congregations of shelters were also called "ghettos".

.

TurdBerglar

01-03-2015, 09:20 PM

http://www.lifeinitaly.com/heritage/italian-discrimination

Dorothy Wood

01-04-2015, 02:51 PM

Interesting little synopsis at that link^

Oh I'm aware of the 19th century issues with immigrants, I failed to mention that the footage of protests was from the 1970s.

The Italian mafia was pretty intense for decades, the crimes committed were vast and brutal. I don't know if I'd call that assimilation. They built their own industries. Then when they got all that money, they got respect(or just tolerance) from the establishment. Then the crime trended downward and businesses went legit.

I don't know how I feel about calling behavior "American". I kinda feel like a lot of culture was lost back then. My mom's side of the family came here from Finland in the early 20th century, and suffered discrimination. My mom's generation was taught to be American, didn't learn about Finnish language or culture at all. When they got older, everyone wished they'd been instilled with more knowledge of their heritage. Also chasing the American dream proved very stressful and tore my family apart in many ways. Most everybody is chill now though.

Lex Diamonds

01-04-2015, 03:00 PM

Calling things un-American is really fucking obnoxious to the rest of the world, in case anyone was wondering. It's one of those many jingoistic, xenophobic behaviours that perpetrators in the US seem oblivious to but the rest of the world absolutely detest them for.

TurdBerglar

01-04-2015, 07:29 PM

TurdBerglar

01-04-2015, 07:45 PM

The Italian mafia was pretty intense for decades, the crimes committed were vast and brutal. I don't know if I'd call that assimilation. They built their own industries. Then when they got all that money, they got respect(or just tolerance) from the establishment. Then the crime trended downward and businesses went legit.

I wasn't even considering mafia and mob shit. I was thinking more along the lines of they stopped doing typical hoodrat ghetto shit and then the respect came. that pretty much entails not having a shit ton of kids you can't afford and taking basic education seriously and holding yourself to a high standard. that's what I meant by assimilation. stopping the destructive bullshit that's within your own culture and doing what everyone that's on the up and up is doing. that doesn't seem wrong to me. it just seems logical. but today that thinking seems to be thought of as discriminatory.

Dorothy Wood

01-04-2015, 09:42 PM

if you move to any country you gotta adopt what their doing so you're not just some big fat speed bump in the middle of what's already been established. that's just how shit works. im not saying that their initial un-American culture was bad and everything everywhere should be american. if I as an American were to move to britian it would only be polite of me and rightfully expected of me to adapt to a british life style eventualy at some point as to not be a monkey wrench tossed into a set of gears and trying to force everyone to adapt to ME instead. expecting everyone and everything that's already been established to change everything just for you is totally inefficient and counter productive.

Well, I don't know if you have to adopt the exact culture, what is "American" culture anyway? I deal with wealthy Europeans sometimes and they are not adopting to American culture, and they are pretty rude because they don't respect Americans. They moved here for business or for fun or whatever. Don't get me started on French and Spanish (from Spain) tourists...they couldn't give less of a fuck about being polite or adapting to the culture. Doesn't matter that I designed the place that they liked, the company logo, the layout, made almost everything hanging on the walls, help pick out everything we sell...they come in, I'm behind the counter, so I must be a servant. :rolleyes:

I wasn't even considering mafia and mob shit. I was thinking more along the lines of they stopped doing typical hoodrat ghetto shit and then the respect came. that pretty much entails not having a shit ton of kids you can't afford and taking basic education seriously and holding yourself to a high standard. that's what I meant by assimilation. stopping the destructive bullshit that's within your own culture and doing what everyone that's on the up and up is doing. that doesn't seem wrong to me. it just seems logical. but today that thinking seems to be thought of as discriminatory.

Well, "hoodrat ghetto shit" is pretty much what happens when you have people living in poverty. People don't just automatically know that it's a bad idea to procreate when you have no money, because people like having sex, and we live in a weird society that looooves promoting sex, but hates actually educating people about it. People have reckless sex for a ton of reasons, much of which relates to pain relief or boredom. A lot of young people think that having a kid will help them feel better too. It's a sad cycle. As for respecting education...eh, I have qualms about championing public education because although I was a very good student and have a degree in education, I hated being in school and I don't agree with the way school is run in the U.S. Changes need to happen, people learn in a variety of ways, a lot of teachers are ignorant, and doing well in school doesn't guarantee success.

I dunno, I grew up very poor, and my mom came from nothing. She left home at 17 and is a self-made person. When she was young, she was ridiculed for being dirty and poor, and my grandma was kind of an asshole from like 1950-1975 (she was an awesome grandma later), basically telling her kids: we're nothing, this is our lot in life, we serve others, we are low class, etc. And my mom still suffers from that low self esteem that she was trained to feel. But, when she was raising me (I was an accident), she tried to make me very polite and classy. When I was in school, people always thought I was rich because I got good grades and had stylish clothes. But it was just because my mom refused to put me through what she went through. Hard work and street smarts got my mom out of jams a million times, but we also both recognize that she had certain privileges. My mom is very pretty white lady who had only a high school diploma, but was raised to value education and taught to communicate with very proper English. She and I were able to fake people out into thinking we were upper middle class even though we had nothing. Not really on purpose or in a devious way, just in a way to protect our pride and self-worth, to survive. You'd think that my mom would be like, "just work hard and you'll succeed", but even she recognizes her privileges, and has compassion for people she grew up with who descended further into poverty and/or addiction because of circumstances and/or because they just gave up on life because they saw no light at the end of the tunnel. A lot of people just give up. I can totally see why they do.

I do wish people had more respect for themselves and others. But I do know that self-respect is hard to cultivate when you have no hope, or when people are actively trying to push you down.

TurdBerglar

01-04-2015, 10:53 PM

Dorothy Wood

01-05-2015, 11:20 AM

sounds like your mother did exactly as to what im talking about and it seemed to have worked. she assimilated. she had to break the cycle self imposed by her own family. the description of your mother is the poster child of what im going on about. do you think yours and hers success is only to do with your whiteness? that's ridiculous because whenever ANYONE does what your mother did it's met with the same results for the most part. nearly EVERYONE that is successful in this country has done what your mother has done or comes from a lineage from someone that had done what your mother has done.

For whatever reason in this country within the last 20 or so years ghetto hoodrat culture is seen as black culture. it's seen as one in the same. so it's defended and accepted. it's defended and accepted as if it's a legitimate way to be. this defense of hoodrat culture(which every group of people is afflicted by) is what's holding people back more than anything. that's where another form of the racism is and I feel it's the MAJOR factor today in holding people back. this defense is mostly caused by guilt stricken white people, race baiters, and other hoodrats that have no idea.

look how much rap and hip hop changed once white kids from the suburbs started buying it and thus influencing the output. it went from this very punk, counterculture, political, positive, very smart and aware movement(when only black people were buying it) to this fucking bling bling, hoodrat, corporate minstrel show(when white people where the dominate force buying it). was that just a coincidence? that bling bling, hoodrat, corporate minstrel show is now accepted as what it is to be black. and if black people don't act like that then they're thought of as acting white. how the fuck is THAT not racist! and everyone fucking loves it and defends it!

if your mother wasn't ridiculed for being ghetto but rather defended for being ghetto would she have done the same thing????

What you're talking about is only one part of the issue. But I do agree that the establishment makes money off of keeping people dumb and trashy.

I don't know why my mom had the energy to push past her poverty, the kids who made fun of her were probably just less poor, but still poor. She was just instilled with a good sense of morals and she wanted a better life. Even though her parents were very depressed and overworked people who just let their kids run wild, they went to church and were moral people. My mom is very trusting in God, that got her through a lot of drama.

As for whiteness, it wasn't just that, but it helped. She was able to just get jobs by going into places and asking. Back in the 70's and 80's, that would be hard for a black person to do (it's hard for anyone to do nowadays). I mean, she's old enough to remember how discriminatory people were.

I would talk more about that, but I'm starting to feel weird about putting so much personal stuff in a thread where people actively dislike what I'm saying! haha

Anyway, changes are happening. I think that "hoodrat" culture is a thing in one form or another with every group of people living in poverty. You are pinning some of the blame on the corporations making money off of this, but why not more of the blame? Why are chips and pop sold and marketed in poor neighborhoods? Menthol cigarettes? booze? Shitty clothes? Investors make money off of selling crap to the masses. How come they don't have to take any responsibility for the outcome? It's weird. I personally feel irritated that I was socially conditioned to eat fast food all the time back when I was a kid and teenager. I never eat that stuff now, and I look and feel better in a hundred ways. Why don't the junk pushers have to take any responsibility?

I think part of the "black lives matter" movement is to just get that message out there. Because maybe that will be a motivation for change, not just in white people's attitudes, but in encouraging black people to feel more self-worth. People matter, everything you do with your life matters to the people around you. Nobody is perfect, but the constant shaming and disparaging that people in power put on black people is not helpful. Just like insulting a fat person doesn't make them skinny, calling someone a thug doesn't make him start turning his life around. And, like I said, crime is on a steady decline, but reporting crime has turned into entertainment. I don't know what the end game is there, just make stacks of cash and ruin society? it's all very strange to me.

TurdBerglar

01-05-2015, 01:37 PM

But I do agree that the establishment makes money off of keeping people dumb and trashy.

that's not what I'm getting at. what im saying is people that have views like yours is what the establishment has become NOW(or it's what they want the establishment to become). your views that nothing is anyone's fault and everyone's problems are to be blamed on the people who you think are in control is becoming the norm. it's not the corporations forcing destructive behaviors down people's throats it's the PEOPLE accepting destructive behavior as legitimate lifestyle choices out of fear of being thought of as racist or discriminatory if they don't accept it. that acceptance and defense of destructive behavior and thinking is ruining everything. the corporations and what you see as the establishment is just going along for the ride that the PEOLPE have created because that's where the money is.

McDonalds doesn't set up shop in the hood because they're all like... HAHA FUCK THESE PEOPLE. they're just going there because that's who's buying their product. that's where the business is. you're taking responsibility away from people. you're pretty much saying certain people aren't capable to be smart enough to take care of themselves and avoid McDonalds.

the music industry didn't change the rap and hip hop scene. the buying public(suburban America) did. the music industry just gave the PEOPLE what they wanted. they just reacted to what the PEOPLE wanted. and what the PEOPLE want is completely ignorant.

Dorothy Wood

01-05-2015, 10:06 PM

Okay well, I disagree. I don't think it's all or nothing, and I never said people shouldn't hold themselves accountable for their choices. I'm saying that people in power manipulate the public to gain money and hold onto their power. You need to realize that. Fast food is engineered. I'm not just guessing about this stuff. In college when I was learning about economics and corporate structures and how they affect society, we watched a doc on a potato chip company (I think Lays), and they wanted to break into European markets. They started actively trying to change the eating habits of Dutch people with a huge campaign including free samples given out at lunch time. Because Dutch people didn't really eat chips with lunch, it'd be more like an evening snack you share with your family (and therefore eat less of, less often). I'm not sure the effect, I'm typing this by phone so cant really look it up.

Anyway, I guess I don't understand why you think individuals are supposed to have complete restraint and responsibility when other individuals are trying to manipulate them, but don't have to have responsibility for the harm they knowingly cause.

TurdBerglar

01-05-2015, 11:08 PM

because the powers that be are NEVER going to change. they may look different, but they will always be around in some shape or form. there's always going to be what you see as manipulation. it's NEVER going away. you have to put the power in the hands of the people(who far out number that powers that be) and not take it away by taking the expectations of their responsibility and intelligence away! YOUR attitude that people have more and more these days is helping to make people naïve and ignorant. YOUR attitude is taking self control away. what your saying is that people should be held less responsible for self restraint. so what happens? they LOSE self restraint if people don't expect them to have it! holding the PEOPLE accountable is what needs to be done for them to fight back and succeed and gain respect!

Dorothy Wood

01-06-2015, 11:10 AM

I think you're misconstruing my motives. I'm actually pretty conservative and I do believe in hard work. I always succeed in work and school. I find others' lack of work ethic disgusting when I know there are things that need to get done and the person or people there to do the work just half ass it.

I think that speaking out against the establishment is a normal part of human history and change does happen. I think you're really bogged down by your personal experience in an area where you've always lived.

Anyway, I've been interested lately in the idea that free will doesn't exist, maybe that's why I'm not all up in arms about the same things you are. http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/proceed-your-own-risk/201311/do-we-have-free-will

JoLovesMCA

01-06-2015, 12:27 PM

FYI Brown's juvenile record is sealed. The St. Louis dispatch sued to have it opened to the public, but a judge denied that approval. A county clerk said there were not class A or Class B felonies, leaving us with Class C felonies .... this criminal record that is floating around the internet is not Mike Brown's juvy record.

However we need not look further than actual video footage of Brown strong arming the store owner to corroborate your opinion being a bully and using his size to intimidate. Gentle Giant? Not the day he met up with Wilson, anyways.

Thanks for clarifying those facts guys.

If a cop is going to risk his life to keep us safe then a criminal is going to risk his too. This is how I see things. Sometimes even my conservative family think I am too hard on people. I just don't have a whole lot of tolerance for things like this.

If these recent incidents with the police are related based on the MB/Wilson then it should send a strong message to criminals that they need to stop doing what they are doing. You won't win. The court is siding with the officers right? Go home, go to work, pay your bills, don’t rob and steal from people and I am sure the cops will find something else to do with their time.

I am not concerned with how the officers handled it because they handle it the best way they can. They have that authority to make that decison whether we like it or not. If it doesn't make it right to many then that's fine they can protest it and maybe wearing those little cameras will eliminate a lot of this mess.

TurdBerglar

01-06-2015, 01:35 PM

I think you're really bogged down by your personal experience in an area where you've always lived.

and we've come full circle. people(you and I included) have all these ideologies that are only applicable to themselves and their environment. that's why we have liberals vs conservatives, democrats vs republicans, Christians vs muslims, racists vs race baiters/defenders, black culture vs white culture. there's all these extremes trying to make things suit THEIR environment. which is totally fine. but then as the assholes we are we try to shove it down OTHER environments that they we have NOTHING TO DO WITH(sounds familiar? religion?). everyone is trying to push their ideologies down everyone's throat even if it's not applicable in that situation. DO IT MY WAY BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT WAY. HOW DARE YOU NOT DO THINGS MY WAY. where are all these extremes coming from? the media is cultivating this bullshit. they're cultivating it with all these attention grabbing sensationalized stories. news use to be local. it's not anymore. we're hearing about shit that has nothing to with our environment and the media is making us think it's applicable to our situation.

Burnout18

01-06-2015, 10:48 PM

I very rarely feel suckered. And I don't feel like I'm wrong here. What have I been wrong on? So far I still think Wilson handled the situation unprofessionally, I think that leaving a body out for hours is disrespectful, I don't agree with militarized police, I think the show of military force exacerbated the angry reaction of the citizens, and I think this is just one incident of a cop using deadly force against a black person because they value their life less...either by active prejudice, or subconscious prejudice. .

I admit to being humbled when I am wrong. I'd rather admit I'm wrong, that my gut instinct was wrong, then to look stubborn and stay on a sinking ship. Admitting one was incorrect is not a sign of weakness... as in Mike Brown's case I was initially wrong, if you check your biases at the door you'll see Wilson was justified in shooting brown the second Brown reached into his car. You know that a person can kill another person with his fists right? I don't care how big Wilson, a few good shots to the face can leave you knocked out or even dead. Facts. I COMPLETELY AGREE that it was an embarrassment to this entire country that a body was left in the streets to rot. I don't think riot police showing up caused people to riot more. Brown was shot on august 9th, on august tenth there was looting, long before military like vehicles were called in. Christ didn't you see the cop car being burned the night of the grand jury verdict? That's not ok. Total bullshit to hint that Wilson valued Brown's life less because he was black. Brown sealed his own fate by going for Wilson. That's your own bias and agenda.... recent history shows us that police officers of all races shoot at whites, blacks, whatever else when they feel necessary. I find zero inclination of racism here, except from those who WANT it to be a racial issue.

I can tell that you very much like rules, and you hate lying, because you keep calling me "dishonest". Not sure what I have to gain by lying, I feel I've been very straightforward.

The rules? Where do you get that shit from? It's like you are talking to the white Christian conservative you think you hate so much and not me. I took that quiz you sent, got a score that may be 2 or 3 questions away from your score. Here's what I understand is wrong.... When you get caught stealing you shouldn't jack up the store owner and go back for more. Disrespecting another human being like that is wrong. Reaching for a person's weapon is wrong. What do you think Mike brown would have done if he ripped that gun out Wilson's hands?

I do think that you are more upset about Dillon Taylor because he is white.
http://fox13now.com/2014/08/12/south-salt-lake-man-shot-by-police-posted-eerie-message-days-before-death/.

That's bullshit. First off Mike Brown went after a cop, so taylor doesn't even compare. Antonio Martin had a weapon on him so that doesn't compare. Is it on par with Eric Garner? Maybe. Only difference is the officer pulled a gun on Taylor, Garner's death was accidental. Notice I'm not really running up and down the forum screaming "Garner deserved it"... like I said there's just enough there for the grand jury to not indict.

Hey why's everyone screaming about race on the Eric Garner situation? You know the arrest was supervised by a black female sgt? She didn't have a problem with it at the time. Why's the media.... NO, why's everyone silent on that?

I'm talking about cause and effect here. This case shouldn't have ended with a shooting death either, but you decided to weigh the situations and call this one the "most egregious", and I do not understand why it would be any more or less egregious than the others. All of the situations involve a cop overreacting and killing someone. .

I disagree, a cop pulling his gun when his/her life is in danger isn't overreacting. It's justified. And that doesn't go for cops either, it goes for everyone. If I come at you with a knife, and you pick up a gun to shoot me, I earned that death. Ya, dig? It'd be nice if no one ever got killed or threatened to kill anyone, but we do not live in that magical made up world.

And it doesn't add up to me that Brown attacked Wilson out of the blue. .

Yes it does. It doesn't add up to me that he would jack up a store owner when he got caught stealing, but hey, fuck it, he did that didn't he? Dude was violent and thought he could get away with anything.

I still believe Johnson's account that Wilson was shitty to Brown and Johnson, and Brown retaliated...because it makes the most sense. Should they have been walking in the street? no. Should they have stolen cigarillos? no. Should Brown have started or reacted to an altercation with a cop? no. Should Wilson have believed Brown was superhuman and could run through bullets? no. Should a cop be allowed to gun someone down in a residential neighborhood without seeing a weapon, or trying any other method to stop the person? no. .

you gotta be kidding me, you really think Johnson wouldn't paint a picture to make it seem like Brown was completely innocent? Dude YOU would lie on the stand to a grand jury if your friend's integrity was on trial. Forensic evidence shows us the gun went off in the car and Brown was shot in the hand at point blank range. shows Wilson pulled the trigger after or during brown reaching in.

See I think that Darren Wilson consciously or subconsciously knew he could just kill a black man and get away with it, so he did, without trying anything else to contain the situation. I'm not him, and I think he probably was scared, but I really haven't wavered in my opinion that he overreacted. My goal here is to say that there should be other ways to handle these things, without resorting to deadly force. And even you think Mike Brown was a scumbag or "thug" as delicate white people like to say, I don't want cops running around shooting people because they're scared. I think it's wrong, I just do, sorry you don't agree. .

Totally unfair assessment, but hey race matters to you so I'd see why you assume it matters to others.... but just for the hell of it, how would you describe the behavior of Brown on the CCTV tape... you know where he shows no fucks and jacks the store owner up then goes back for more when the owner appears to say something. Thug life or gentle giant? I'll let you decide.

He was depressed, depression is mental disorder. You seem very intent on making people into monsters. They're just people, monsters don't exist. Sorry, I'm just not prone to that type of hyperbole. It is very terrible that two lives were taken. A lot of innocent people are killed every day. I'm saddened by it all.

Career criminal who bragged about what he was gonna do on his insta.... Depression? get outta here... you seem unwilling or scared to admit that there are bad people in this world. This world will always be filled with violent, ruthless scumbags from every race, sex, religion and orientation. Get over it. You aren't changing the world by pretending it's something it's not. Depression... wow that's a stretch.

The other night, some assholes went out guns blazing, Jason Polanco and Josh Kemp. Police didn't kill them even though those two certainly tried killing the cops that tried to stop them. Progress, right?! ughhhhhhh

Burnout18

01-06-2015, 11:02 PM

Lyman Zerga

01-07-2015, 01:12 AM

Total bullshit to hint that Wilson valued Brown's life less because he was black. Brown sealed his own fate by going for Wilson. That's your own bias and agenda.... recent history shows us that police officers of all races shoot at whites, blacks, whatever else when they feel necessary. I find zero inclination of racism here, except from those who WANT it to be a racial issue.

Reaching for a person's weapon is wrong. What do you think Mike brown would have done if he ripped that gun out Wilson's hands?

I disagree, a cop pulling his gun when his/her life is in danger isn't overreacting. It's justified. And that doesn't go for cops either, it goes for everyone. If I come at you with a knife, and you pick up a gun to shoot me, I earned that death. Ya, dig? It'd be nice if no one ever got killed or threatened to kill anyone, but we do not live in that magical made up world.

i strongly agree

Dorothy Wood

01-07-2015, 11:23 AM

I admit to being humbled when I am wrong. I'd rather admit I'm wrong, that my gut instinct was wrong, then to look stubborn and stay on a sinking ship. Admitting one was incorrect is not a sign of weakness... as in Mike Brown's case I was initially wrong, if you check your biases at the door you'll see Wilson was justified in shooting brown the second Brown reached into his car. You know that a person can kill another person with his fists right? I don't care how big Wilson, a few good shots to the face can leave you knocked out or even dead. Facts. I COMPLETELY AGREE that it was an embarrassment to this entire country that a body was left in the streets to rot. I don't think riot police showing up caused people to riot more. Brown was shot on august 9th, on august tenth there was looting, long before military like vehicles were called in. Christ didn't you see the cop car being burned the night of the grand jury verdict? That's not ok. Total bullshit to hint that Wilson valued Brown's life less because he was black. Brown sealed his own fate by going for Wilson. That's your own bias and agenda.... recent history shows us that police officers of all races shoot at whites, blacks, whatever else when they feel necessary. I find zero inclination of racism here, except from those who WANT it to be a racial issue.

The rules? Where do you get that shit from? It's like you are talking to the white Christian conservative you think you hate so much and not me. I took that quiz you sent, got a score that may be 2 or 3 questions away from your score. Here's what I understand is wrong.... When you get caught stealing you shouldn't jack up the store owner and go back for more. Disrespecting another human being like that is wrong. Reaching for a person's weapon is wrong. What do you think Mike brown would have done if he ripped that gun out Wilson's hands?

That's bullshit. First off Mike Brown went after a cop, so taylor doesn't even compare. Antonio Martin had a weapon on him so that doesn't compare. Is it on par with Eric Garner? Maybe. Only difference is the officer pulled a gun on Taylor, Garner's death was accidental. Notice I'm not really running up and down the forum screaming "Garner deserved it"... like I said there's just enough there for the grand jury to not indict.

Hey why's everyone screaming about race on the Eric Garner situation? You know the arrest was supervised by a black female sgt? She didn't have a problem with it at the time. Why's the media.... NO, why's everyone silent on that?

I disagree, a cop pulling his gun when his/her life is in danger isn't overreacting. It's justified. And that doesn't go for cops either, it goes for everyone. If I come at you with a knife, and you pick up a gun to shoot me, I earned that death. Ya, dig? It'd be nice if no one ever got killed or threatened to kill anyone, but we do not live in that magical made up world.

Yes it does. It doesn't add up to me that he would jack up a store owner when he got caught stealing, but hey, fuck it, he did that didn't he? Dude was violent and thought he could get away with anything.

you gotta be kidding me, you really think Johnson wouldn't paint a picture to make it seem like Brown was completely innocent? Dude YOU would lie on the stand to a grand jury if your friend's integrity was on trial. Forensic evidence shows us the gun went off in the car and Brown was shot in the hand at point blank range. shows Wilson pulled the trigger after or during brown reaching in.

Totally unfair assessment, but hey race matters to you so I'd see why you assume it matters to others.... but just for the hell of it, how would you describe the behavior of Brown on the CCTV tape... you know where he shows no fucks and jacks the store owner up then goes back for more when the owner appears to say something. Thug life or gentle giant? I'll let you decide.

Career criminal who bragged about what he was gonna do on his insta.... Depression? get outta here... you seem unwilling or scared to admit that there are bad people in this world. This world will always be filled with violent, ruthless scumbags from every race, sex, religion and orientation. Get over it. You aren't changing the world by pretending it's something it's not. Depression... wow that's a stretch.

The other night, some assholes went out guns blazing, Jason Polanco and Josh Kemp. Police didn't kill them even though those two certainly tried killing the cops that tried to stop them. Progress, right?! ughhhhhhh

My only agenda is to get people to stop spreading false information as fact, and to look at the role of police in our society with more scrutiny.

And I'm not scared to admit there are bad people, where do you see that? I just look at it with less emotion than you. My birth father was a bad person, and the step dad that followed committed a very serious crime, and shot himself in the head when he was found out. Ruined my senior year, man. Before that, he was a respected member of the community. So, I have personal experience with "bad people", and they aren't monsters, they're just people. They don't have like superhuman monster brains, or like "savage animal" brains.

You want to ignore the racial bias of some cops, even though there's a mountain of evidence that speaks otherwise. Not sure who or what you're trying to protect...

I mean, what's this about: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/police-dash-cam-video-exonerates-nj-man-implicates-cops-article-1.1701763
Looks like those cops were pretty used to doing stuff like that, and very comfortable with covering it up. Multiple people involved, not just one rogue cop.

Burnout18

01-12-2015, 09:29 PM

My only agenda is to get people to stop spreading false information as fact, and to look at the role of police in our society with more scrutiny.

And I'm not scared to admit there are bad people, where do you see that? I just look at it with less emotion than you. My birth father was a bad person, and the step dad that followed committed a very serious crime, and shot himself in the head when he was found out. Ruined my senior year, man. Before that, he was a respected member of the community. So, I have personal experience with "bad people", and they aren't monsters, they're just people. They don't have like superhuman monster brains, or like "savage animal" brains.

You want to ignore the racial bias of some cops, even though there's a mountain of evidence that speaks otherwise. Not sure who or what you're trying to protect...

I mean, what's this about: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/police-dash-cam-video-exonerates-nj-man-implicates-cops-article-1.1701763
Looks like those cops were pretty used to doing stuff like that, and very comfortable with covering it up. Multiple people involved, not just one rogue cop.

I am very careful in my posts and do not post false information. I know you thought you had me when I had said rap sheet, but the guy who just turned 18 actually did have a juvenile criminal record. I am very careful not to spread misinformation.

Very sorry to hear about your family and personal experiences.

I have no problem passing judgment on people based on their actions. The terrorists in France? Savages. Boko Haram? Monsters. No need to make excuses or justify their actions.

Mountain of evidence of police racial bias? Here’s a legit question for you. Do guys like Mike Brown and Antonio Martin get lumped in as statistics under “black males killed by cops” cause if they do that’s misleading. As we discussed their own actions led to their deaths. I recently read an article (in print and now I can’t find the article online) said 8% of police in counters in NYC end in complaints. That’s 92% of of encounters where shit goes completely right. That doesn’t even count how many complaints are dropped due to illegitimate or false complaints. Again, I’m gonna bring it up, you know the garner situation was supervised by a black female SGT. Is she racist too? Serious question.

What’s up with the cops in bloomfield? It goes to show that cover ups and corruption eventually get busted. It’s 2015 and law enforcement is under an incredible microscope. Your assumptions that cops are used to doing that kinda stuff is unfair. Prove it. Prove to me that this kinda stuff goes on in Bloomfield. (Bloomfield, home of north jersey’s finest cigar bar/gentleman’s club btw) I’m glad the cops lost their job and are being prosecuted and I can’t wait for every cop to have a body cam. Enough of the he said she said bullshit. But again, what happened in North jersey had nothing to do with Mike Brown reaching for Wilson’s gun. No correlation.

Can’t help but notice you completely ignored my case by case breakdown in my last post. Totally unfair that you just label me biased, then skipped over my explanation of why I feel Taylor’s case is the most egregious. You don’t even offer a rebuttle, and nothing other than the simpleton’s explanation of “he’s white.”