The "ignore" thread
 

Anyone want to have a real debate now? :p

I'd like to talk about health care, and what you all would like to see done, what Obama should change or promote in his plan.

I'm not sure Canadian-style health insurance would work in America, though I'd like it to. Discuss!

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I think when the US Government colluded with America's capitalists to start marketing and selling health and well-being aka "wealth and hell-being" (a moral travesty and mistake 1) pandora's box was opened and it is impossible for the US to have what Canada and the United Kingdom currently have (Health Canada's Medicare and NHS Trust respectively). In a sense America's health and well-being was a casualty of greed and immoral free market capitalism. I think most people appreciate that the US health care system does not work for the greatest good -- unfortunately the richest capitalists behind the healthcare industry are not shunned for believing it does work (mistake 2). I cannot see how change is possible. It would be like trying to get rid of the tax system at this point. The only possibility seems sadly to be a genuine revolution (American Revolution Part Deux) over US health care atrocities (e.g., organised protest, avoiding employers who maintain the status quo, changing voting patterns etc). The government and the people should never have sold their rights to healthcare away. It is very sad. I feel sorry for America and their current situation since so many people live their lives without the basic human right to proper health services. Once again, a genuine revolution is the only option at this point. Which is sad as well because of the potential fall out.

So that is my two cents worth -- now let the verbal bashing begin. I expect our friend RobMoney to be the first critic of the statements above but I am not psychic :)

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soo classy.

can you grow up?

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So much for the ignore button. :p

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Canadian style health insurance doesn't work very well in Canada, so I would assume the same problems would happen on a larger scale in the United States. The wait times and the shortage of medical professionals come to mind. Of course, it is possible the latter issue would be resolved if both countries agree upon a more appropriate salary for medical professionals.

I shouldn't be complaining about my country's health care system since I have reaped the benefits since birth...

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I'm ignoring you la la la la la la la

Anyways I'm not too keen on COBRA, never have been never will be. The shit is expensive and is offered to part time people without medical coverage as an option. Too bad it'll cost them 75% of their paycheck.

reform COBRA or kill it.

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After watching bits and clips of a couple town hall meetings , I'm very curious about the people complaining about government's relationship with healthcare

Are these people asking the government to cancel their medicare?

buduh ching!

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Hey! This was supposed to be a Rob$-free thread!

I agree with COBRA. I had it for a few months since my dad's insurance kicks you off at 21, regardless of student status. $300 a month! THREE HUNDRED! It was absolutely ridiculous.

What I don't like about insurance companies now is the ridiculous deductibles. You either pay a high premium, or a high deductible. When I was looking for new insurance, I saw I could pay $60 a month for BCBS, but the deductible was $5,000. So, if I broke my leg, I'd have to pay that deductible before they paid anything...kinda seems like I don't have insurance in the first place, no?

It just seems ridiculous that they charge so much and make so much profit. I don't know how their CEOs can sleep at night.

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I actually wonder sometimes. Whenever I see clips it seems like the people who are most upset are likely on medicare. They seem old enough. It makes me sad to think that they are getting so worked up about something they clearly don't understand.

I myself have no idea. I would sure like to see a coherent and detailed explanation before a law is passed.

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I truly believe they just don't know and are listening to the RICH conservative talking heads who are trying to keep them blind and into thinking "investing" in healthcare is in their best interest

Remember when bush tried to push killing SSI for private investment, do we have any idea how much would have been lost during this recent economic crash?

Seriously these people have no idea what they are fighting....I fear for many it might be their own interests.

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no it works extremely well. but sure, there are some problems like wait times, thanks in large part to cut backs by the federal government in the 1990s, but the problems aren't as far-fetched as the neo cons make them out to be. my father had serious, major surgery a few years back and we didn't have to wait at all for his operation.

debunking canadian health care myths

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I've heard a few times that Canadian doctors will go south of the border because they make a lot more money in the US, which contributes to the shortage of doctors and long wait times. Now, if the US adopted a universal healthcare plan like Canada's, I'm assuming there wouldn't be much of an incentive for them to jump the border as they have been doing, and wait times in Canada would not be as bad as they are now. Thoughts?

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I'm currently watching President Obama's Healthcare Town meeting, it's very good.

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now I'm watching General Hospital, where Jerry and Jason play a game of cat and mouse; Mac uncovers Dominic's secret.

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I cannot grow up and you are right I am not particularly classy.
But I should point I like when people disagree with me -- sometimes
I learn something new (e.g., a different perspective). When I wrote my comments I did not mean that I did not want to read your thoughts on this debate. I hope that is clearer now.

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my comments weren't directed at you, Michelle'sFarm, they were directed at QA.


I come here to debate issues.
When topics start degrading into personal attacks, it's time to end them.

If Lambert and QA want to honestly debate politics, I'm all ears.
But if they're just trying to personally attack me in an effort to discredit my POV on the debate, I think that serves no one.

Why would someone post on a political MB if they weren't interested in hearing an opposing view?

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"You're gay" out of nowhere and having nothing to do with the topic at hand surely is classy, grown up, and everything that Rob$ accuses us of. I wonder if he even sees the hypocrisy. Who knows? Kettle, pot, black, etc.

I'm interested in hearing intelligent, well-thought out opposing viewpoints. I liked Sam I Am, because he was always respectful and would come up with good arguments (regardless of how much I disagreed with his opinion). I like reading saz's and Michelle's comments, too. They're more to the left than I am, and bring a good perspective to the debate. And Documad is more centrist I am, and a logical thinker, so I always enjoy what she has to say, too. Differing opinions are good. Just stealing other people's words and claiming them to be your own, suckling at the teat of FOX News, and pulling the played-out Nazi card against Obama in the most ridiculous way isn't really intellectual debate. If I wanted to hear that stuff, I'd just turn it to Glenn Beck.

Now that that's cleared up, back to the topic at hand. Anyone have any thoughts on how it would affect Canada if the US adopted a similar type of care?

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Out of nowhere? C'mon.
That comment was a response to this comment:

DS: Well, his credibility has been shot for quite some time. It's a thankless job trying to talk truth to stupid, but somebody's gotta do it.[/quote]

I'm not one for reporting shit to the admins. But this is uncalled for.
My response was also childish, but take some fucking responsibility for the role both of you two played.



I realize you'd like to stereotype all conservatives as FOX News, Beck, or Rush loyalists, but I assure you I subscribe to none of them. I've never talked or used anything from any of those idiots.

Way to stereotype tho.


Also, being a self-described lefty. Opinions from people even more left of you aren't exactly differing opinions.
This place would be nothing more than a liberal circle-jerk.

You're seriously coming off like a spoiled little brat IMO.
Delving into personal insults to try to win an argument, lack of ability to take responsibility, not showing opponents a level of respect.
Like a child at play.

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That's what I was thinking. Two of the reasons why I would argue the Canadian health care system doesn't work so well is the wait time and what you're alluding to, sometimes called "brain drain". If all of the countries in North America had the same system there might be less incentive to cross the border looking to open a private practice...but there might still be a shortage of doctors within the system because there's less incentive to become a doctor in the first place if all it will lead to is a standardized job in a nationally owned an operated hospital. But I have no proof to back up my point because it's all hypothetical.

The waits in Canada can be brutal sometimes:

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/170/5/776-a

Not good enough.

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No you don't, you come here to copy and paste things other people have written, and then pretend that you're here debating issues. Where do you get off lecturing people about respect and responsibility? Like you're such a shining example of those two virtues.

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The mere fact that I havent ripped you to shreds yet should be an example of my showing opponents a certain level of respect.

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except for the whole obama = hitler thing, which limbaugh has been proclaiming of late and has been condemned by the american jewish league, the anti-defamation league, and rabbi marvin hier, dean and founder of the simon wiesenthal center. plus there's the linking of michele bachmann and michelle malkan, two more completely irrational and crazy wingnuts.

not at all. i took a lot of heat for supporting nader on here. and there were quite a few libertarians and ron paul supporters posting as well during the '08 election.

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lol, I knew Rob wouldn't be able to ignore us more than a couple hours. Guess this "spoiled little brat" must have hit a nerve? :p Funny how he thinks calling his argument "stupid" in a forum where we argue opinions should be followed up with calling the person gay. I guess when you have nothing else to say to defend your position, you gotta resort to that sort of thing.

Anyways, I think doctors would still have incentive to become doctors. I hate when people say that doctors wouldn't go into the profession if it was nationalized -- all of the doctors I know got into it because they wanted to help people. Yes, the money is a good incentive, but it's not the main reason why they do it. We'd still have quality doctors, and they'd still make a ton of money.

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oops -- thanks for the clarification.

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Way to yet again not take any responsibility.
I dropped the ignore thing because as an adult, I'd figure I'd give you the opportunity to start a new day and debate as an adult.

You failed. The personal shit continues.


Enjoy your circle jerk.

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Sorry I hurt your feelings. :(

Friends?

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I'm not one for reporting shit to the admins. But this is uncalled for.
My response was also childish, but take some fucking responsibility for the role both of you two played.





I realize you'd like to stereotype all conservatives as FOX News, Beck, or Rush loyalists, but I assure you I subscribe to none of them. I've never talked or used anything from any of those idiots.

Way to stereotype tho.


Also, being a self-described lefty. Opinions from people even more left of you aren't exactly differing opinions.
This place would be nothing more than a liberal circle-jerk.

You're seriously coming off like a spoiled little brat IMO.
Delving into personal insults to try to win an argument, lack of ability to take responsibility, not showing opponents a level of respect.
Like a child at play.[/quote]

What are you debating? Yourself and what a badass you are? Wheres your alternate health care ideas to Obama's health care ideas?

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What are you debating? Yourself and what a badass you are? Wheres your alternate health care ideas to Obama's health care ideas?

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it's no use asking, yeahwho, if he actually answers, he'll probably just be copying and pasting something someone else said.

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I think healthcare costs are too high... congress can lower healthcare costs by capping premiums paid by docs and hospitals for malpractice insurance.

there, then the govt can get into the insurance business.

Obama made a comment today about how Fedex and Ups are doing great up against the post office. I guess he said this to quiet those who think that public healthcare will destroy the private insurance sector. Right Wingers are enjoying this comment because it points out that a quasi govt program sucks when compared to a corporation.

Not to speak for obama, but that isn't the point. The post office is there to provide a government service for those who need it. Thats what i think the public healthcare should be there for. For those who have to pay for cobra, like post college aged young adults, or people with dead-end jobs, or maybe people who are there own individual corporation. My cousin drives a truck, but doesn't meet any standards to join a union, so he has to pay for shit out of pocket. Thats who the public healthcare is for.