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-   -   Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples (http://bbs.beastieboys.com/showthread.php?t=98016)

Adam 05-08-2012 06:34 AM
Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Source link is at the bottom of this page but I've quoted the whole text as the page runs scripts of sound files and pop ups and is kinda horrible. So either stop scripts and/or turn your sound down if you click the link.

The timing of the suit is somewhat unfortunate but it perplexes me that this sort of thing isn't sorted out within a few years after release although it relates to the profiting of re-releases mainly.

In my opinion, just another copyright troll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulculture.co.uk
While fans worldwide are mourning the death and celebrating the life of founding Beastie Boys member Adam “MCA” Yauch, the band has now been sued over samples appearing in a total of four songs from their popular Licensed to Ill and Paul’s Boutique albums, according to documents obtained by AllHipHop.

Filed in United States District Court of the Southern District of New York by record label TufAmerica the day before Yauch’s death, the lawsuit alleges that the Beasties’ songs “The New Style” and “Hold It Now Hit It” from Ill and “Shadrach” and “Car Thief” from Boutique all contain unauthorized samples of songs recorded by American Go-Go band Trouble Funk. TufAmerica claims to be the exclusive licensee of the sampled songs — “Say What” from Trouble Funk’s album Straight Up Go-Go Style and “Drop the Bomb” from the album In Times of Trouble — and alleges that the Beasties have infringed their copyrights.

The suit claims that after “a careful audio analysis” TufAmerica was able to determine that the songs in question contain “distinctive” elements of the Trouble Funk recordings and that the Beasties and fellow defendants including Capitol Records continue to profit from the alleged unauthorized samples through several re-releases and digital downloads of the Ill and Boutique albums.

AllHipHop reports that TufAmerica is seeking trial to determine the amount of damages they are owed. A portion of the lawsuit can be viewed here.

Released in 1986, Licensed to Ill is the Beastie Boys’ landmark debut album; 1989′s Paul’s Boutique is the follow-up.

Trouble Funk was a staple in the world of Go-Go, an offshoot of American funk most popular in the band’s hometown of Washington D.C. and surrounding areas, throughout the 80s and continues to be a presence in the genre. On their official website, they dub themselves “the world’s greatest GO-GO band.”

Adam Yauch died May 4 after a long battle with cancer. He was 47.
Source: http://www.soulculture.co.uk/blogs/b...es-music-news/

cj hood 05-08-2012 07:11 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
f' them

brooklyndust 05-08-2012 07:23 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
scum.

MCAadROCKMiKEd7 05-08-2012 07:31 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Sue this *middlefinger*:mad:

birdfloatindown 05-08-2012 07:49 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Oh really, and it took them 25 years to realize this? BTW, wasn't there some sort of court ruling about samples, which wasn't instituted until after the release of Paul's Boutique, and that's what allowed all those samples to remain on the album? Toss this lawsuit out, judge.

Taco Zip 05-08-2012 07:57 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Worst timing ever.

FLO MASTER 05-08-2012 09:14 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdfloatindown (Post 1785821)
Oh really, and it took them 25 years to realize this? BTW, wasn't there some sort of court ruling about samples, which wasn't instituted until after the release of Paul's Boutique, and that's what allowed all those samples to remain on the album? Toss this lawsuit out, judge.

^this

Laver1969 05-08-2012 10:03 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Stupidest thing I've ever heard...

MarkedCube 05-08-2012 10:30 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulculture.co.uk
Trouble Funk was a staple in the world of Go-Go, an offshoot of American funk most popular in the band’s hometown of Washington D.C. and surrounding areas, throughout the 80s and continues to be a presence in the genre. On their official website, they dub themselves “the world’s greatest GO-GO band.”
Oh really? Sounds like a great legacy.

Let me know when it reaches Chicago.

brooklyndust 05-08-2012 10:36 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Seriously, how could anyone sue at time like this? They waited 25 fucking years but now can't wait a few months?

Way to put more strain on MCA's family and friends.

abbott 05-08-2012 10:53 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
this is bullshit.

YoungRemy 05-08-2012 11:24 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
paging Johnny Chavello

JoLovesMCA 05-08-2012 11:26 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
fuck them.

FLO MASTER 05-08-2012 01:44 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
well I was speaking to a few artists that are in the music biz and they told me a simalar story. they sampled a song from puerto rico (they thought it was an childhood song that belonged to nobody) and a few months later, a little old lady approached them and said "my husband wrote that song and now you have to pay me". well, the brothers went over to thier record label, which owned the songs and they (the record label) had to pay her. so, I think the beasties will be cleared of this thus making DEF JAM and Capital the ones that have to pay.


here is the sample/lyrics they used:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DU8QCfi-R8

JohnnyChavello 05-08-2012 02:14 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungRemy (Post 1785879)
paging Johnny Chavello
I agree: fuck 'em.

First of all, it's good that the case is being tried in New York. Other jurisdictions in the US (in and around Nashville, for example) have developed case law on sampling that sucks hard. The Ninth Circuit (NY and surrounding areas) doesn't have the same precedent, so it will be easier for the Beasties, Capitol, etc. to argue that the samples don't amount to actual infringement. With some of the samples (and I haven't listened to all of the original recordings), I think that argument might be pretty strong.

Even if a court were to find infringement, fair use can be raised as a defense. I think most of the samples I've heard should qualify as fair use, although it is a lot more complicated than people realize. Nonetheless, I think it could be a strong argument for at least some of the samples.

Companies don't often like to litigate fair use claims because it takes more time and ends up being a lot more expensive. In a lot of cases, people cut their losses when infringement is found and simply settle for some undisclosed amount. I really hope everyone has the balls to push forward on fair use here because there's actually very little case law on how fair use applies to digital sampling. Imagine if the Beasties' legacy including making it easier for artists to claim fair use for transformative samples? They would be, and the album would be, even more monumental and important than they already are.

Finally, there are definite issues with this case being brought 25 years after the initial "infringement." Certain legal doctrines (apart from the statute of limitations) require copyright owners to act within a reasonable time in order to successfully assert their rights.

It's all really interesting, but still very complicated. I hope they let it play out and clear some new ground for artists who sample. It would be long overdue.

spacemac9000 05-08-2012 03:59 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
It makes me wonder if they filed on purpose during this time? If it fits into sone sort of shitty strategy ?

Not that they could of planned MCA's passing but maybe they were not going to sue but now it has become more opportunistic for them.
scumbag lawyers

plus doesn't this predate the major copyright rulings?

silence7 05-08-2012 04:15 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
The legal issues with this are being discussed here as well..

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...l-albums.shtml

brooklyndust 05-08-2012 04:22 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacemac9000 (Post 1785963)
It makes me wonder if they filed on purpose during this time? If it fits into sone sort of shitty strategy ?
I think it could be more of a James Newton type thing. The band was completely unaware that their music was sampled until all the recent publicity.

CHECKHEAD2004 05-08-2012 04:50 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Such BS. I hope they don't settle.

JohnnyChavello 05-08-2012 05:11 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by silence7 (Post 1785969)
The legal issues with this are being discussed here as well..

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...l-albums.shtml
That's a decent introduction to some of the issues, but I have a major bone to pick with them on the law. They write that courts have "more or less entirely [tossed] out the concepts of fair use, transformative work and de minimis copying that should protect samplers in many cases."

This is only true with respect to de minimis copying (and even there, only in one circuit), but not at all true with respect to fair use. Fair use's roots in the common law are as old as copyright law itself. There is no particular type of work (music or otherwise) that is outside of the scope of fair use in and of itself and I don't know of a single copyright case that would even suggest it.

MarcusCarab 05-08-2012 05:40 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Quote:
That's a decent introduction to some of the issues, but I have a major bone to pick with them on the law. They write that courts have "more or less entirely [tossed] out the concepts of fair use, transformative work and de minimis copying that should protect samplers in many cases."

This is only true with respect to de minimis copying (and even there, only in one circuit), but not at all true with respect to fair use. Fair use's roots in the common law are as old as copyright law itself. There is no particular type of work (music or otherwise) that is outside of the scope of fair use in and of itself and I don't know of a single copyright case that would even suggest it.
Hi Johnny - I'm the author of that piece. You definitely have a point here. I was a little annoyed when I read the news and wrote the post, so I was quite forceful in my language - but I still do mean something when I say the courts wiped out fair use in sampling

I'm referring to the bright-line "get a license or don't sample" ruling from Bridgeport, which clearly struck down de minimis, but was also issued without any analysis of the fair use issue (mainly for procedural reasons). To quote from Jason Mazzone's book Copyfraud:

Quote:
An especially troubling consequence of the Bridgeport case is that its bright-line rule—“Get a license or do not sample”—comes without any analysis of fair use. Because the lower court applied the de minimis standard and found no infringement, it did not consider whether the fair use defense applied. On appeal, the Sixth Circuit panel declined to decide whether the sample at issue was protected by fair use because it wanted the lower court to consider that issue first upon remand of the case. However, after the Sixth Circuit’s decision, the dispute settled. There was, therefore, never a fair use ruling in the case. It is unfortunate that a seemingly decisive decision by a federal appellate court on the lawfulness of sampling comes without any consideration of whether fair use protects sampling.

Here, a difference between the doctrine of de minimis copying and fair use matters a great deal. The doctrine of de minimis copying is a judge-made rule. In the final analysis, it is the prerogative of courts to tailor the doctrine as they see fit. Fair use, however, is a statutory provision that binds judges. It limits, without exception, all the exclusive rights of copyright owners. Some copying from copyrighted recordings is, necessarily, fair use. Because of the procedural history of Bridgeport, however, we never learn if fair use protects the defendants’ use of the sample from Funkadelic’s tune. The unsurprising result is that copyright owners (and samplers themselves) treat Bridgeport as standing for the proposition that all sampling is infringement. Even though the Copyright Act protects fair use of all species of copyrighted works, a legal decision on the question of de minimis copying enables copyright owners to assert that there is no fair use when it comes to sound recordings.

Subsequent case law has also not dealt squarely with the fair use issue. Although the Sixth Circuit has decided a slew of additional disputes involving litigation by Bridgeport Music, it has never decided whether sampling is protected by fair use. Another federal court could disagree with the Sixth Circuit and find that the de minimis doctrine applies to sampling. A different court could also find that sampling is protected by fair use. But Bridgeport has cast a wide shadow, and rather than go before a (different) court to test the legality of sampling, producers have instead opted to obtain sampling licenses. While courts have held that fair use applies to compositions, courts have provided no guidance on when sampling from an existing sound recording constitutes fair use. Says Philo T. Farnsworth, the owner of a label that releases sampled recordings, “We’d love to see a court case or legislation recognize transformative sampling as fair use. As of this moment it seems to exist in a very gray area.”
The industry seems to have shaped itself around Bridgeport, and though most sampling on free mixtapes goes ignored (though 50 Cent was recently sued over one) all commercial stuff gets licensed. Thankfully, as you say, and as Mazzone says, there are still plenty of ways that fair use could be re-asserted in the courts - but at the moment, thanks to the far-reaching implications of Bridgeport, it is effectively toothless when it comes to sampling.

JohnnyChavello 05-08-2012 05:50 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusCarab (Post 1785990)
The industry seems to have shaped itself around Bridgeport, and though most sampling on free mixtapes goes ignored (though 50 Cent was recently sued over one) all commercial stuff gets licensed. Thankfully, as you say, and as Mazzone says, there are still plenty of ways that fair use could be re-asserted in the courts - but at the moment, thanks to the far-reaching implications of Bridgeport, it is effectively toothless when it comes to sampling.
I hear you on Bridgeport. I spent a couple of years of my life a while back writing and publishing an article on that case and sampling generally. Still, although Bridgeport's impact on de minimis copying and substantial similarity definitely sets the stage for what kinds of samples record companies think need to be licensed, that has more to do with the risk averse nature of record companies than it does with the law. You can see that in cases of unsigned groups that sample: most institutional copyright owners don't go after them because they really don't want a precedent setting case on fair use in sampling. They know the logic of Bridgeport wouldn't apply. That's not to say that courts aren't also conservative in evaluating what is and isn't fair use, but the defense stands as it applies to samples.

MarcusCarab 05-08-2012 06:02 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Yeah, fair enough - but I think the fact that part of the problem is companies avoiding risk is still an important point. Copyright law being as fluid and as confusing as it is, very little of it is set in stone - but a lot of it is threatening enough that it creates far-spread chilling effects on culture and business. It's good that fair use has weight in the law, but in practice at the moment it seems to carry very little weight and have very little influence on the industry - apart, as you say, making labels nervous about suing over samples sometimes. But that's a mixed blessing since it means we don't get the ruling that would make it a /firm/ rule, and instead are stuck with it as a weak deterrent.

But that's where Tuf America may have stepped in it here. It might finally be time for a sampling defence that asserts fair use... I hope so.

spacemac9000 05-08-2012 06:30 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklyndust (Post 1785972)
I think it could be more of a James Newton type thing. The band was completely unaware that their music was sampled until all the recent publicity.
okay actually seems suit was filed day before he passed ...

so i stand corrected ... i do know lawyers are human beings and people do have the right to use them. but the timing really pissed me off initially, but if that is just coincidence and not strategy then it is a different issue.

beasties#1fan 05-08-2012 07:14 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
i saw this and couldnt believe it...they must have really felt like assholes when they heard about the news the next day...(n)

Sir SkratchaLot 05-08-2012 08:38 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
The statute of limitations defense should, hopefully, end this quickly. I don't see how the plaintiff can claim they just discovered the use of the samples recently. They've slept on their claim for way too long.

I also agree that fair use proponents have got to get some balls and step in the realm of fair use. I mean, I can actually see the logic of Bridgeport saying de minimus use doesn't make sense in the context of the copyright on the recording. I wish there was a de minimus exception, but there are some pretty clear differences between de minimus use on the compositional side of copyright vs de minimus use on the recording copyright. With a composition there's the initial question of, is it even copying at all when you're using such small pieces, but with the recording it's clearly copying, even if it's small. But fair use is wide open! That needs to be pushed. It would really be great if it could be pushed legislatively, but my concern is that the powers that be have way too much influence. A big Supreme Court win on fair use could see a "legislative fix" making things even worse. At the very least I'd like to see a system where people can't stop you from sampling as long as you pay a REASONABLE fee. Frankly, I think it should be free as long is you flip the sample hard enough but that's just me.

But here's my thing, LEAVE THE BEASTIES ALONE FOR ONCE!!!! Why is it that they are constant targets for this shit? I mean, sue Dr. Dre or or Jay Z or something.

benchillin 05-08-2012 09:43 PM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Beastie Boys - On Music Sampling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE0_w...feature=relmfu
:eek:

FLO MASTER 05-09-2012 04:14 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
like i said, the beasties wont pay anything, the label does.

JoLovesMCA 05-09-2012 08:15 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
http://www.pressparty.com/pg/newsdes...422/?isworld=y

They are apologizing but it's too late. They took focus off of Adam. pisses me off.

GrapeApe 05-09-2012 08:19 AM
Re: Beastie Boys sued over ‘Licensed to Ill’ and ‘Paul’s Boutique’ samples
 
Paul's Boutique was created before the copyright laws changed.

I'm not sure how they can sue for something that was created legally under the laws of the time.

Trolls.


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