[Schmeltz]

Originally Posted by RobMoney$

To be honest, your statement about no one putting forth a cogent argument against a nationalized plan got to me

I said no such thing. What I said was that nobody had put forth a cogent argument in favour of the current system. With comprehension problems like this, it's no wonder you won't read the interview I linked to.

Much of what follows this seems to me largely irrelevant to the discussion. What's up for debate, as you've said yourself, is not the quality of care available in the USA, or how much medical establishments spend on caring for people. It's the fact that so many people cannot afford it. If people are incapable of paying for their own health care, or are left destitute in their effort to do so, or are denied care on the basis of inadequate medical coverage, then does it really matter how much unnecessary surgery is performed in a year? Health spending isn't the issue. Affordability by patients is the issue.

Your "right to health care" would require some other person to give up a portion of their life or their property to either treat you, or to provide you with drugs or medical implements. The Constitution does not provide for another individual to be indentured to you in this manner.
Therefore, you have no "right" to health care.

Leaving aside the entirely spurious nature of this conclusion, would you like to show me where I have used the phrase "right to health care"? And anyway, it doesn't matter how much or whose money is spent on health care if tens of millions of people can't afford it either way. Which is what we're discussing.

Perhaps we should do something about the Wal-Marts and the Home Depots of the United States who continue to do everything they can to prevent offering their employees health insurance while they reap in billions in profits.
You know, legislation to actually help the poor working slobs instead of just throwing even more money that we don't have at the problem.

I dunno Rob, sounds an awful lot like big bad scary socialism to me. But actually if you read that interview I posted you'll see that a large part of the problem lies with insurance corporations who do exactly the same thing - exert every effort possible to deny paying out on the claims of their customers, while reaping billions in profits. That's the part of the system that needs changing.