Blue Dog Democrats

[saz]

kimmel is spot on.

according to the blue dog logic then, and the republicans as well, public health insurance is good enough for the elected officials from the house of representatives and the senate, as well as the president and all of the armed forces. they get public health insurance, it's good enough for them, but apparently it's not good enough for the american citizen, or the american civilian doesn't deserve it. go figure.

[Documad]

Originally Posted by saz

kimmel is spot on.

according to the blue dog logic then, and the republicans as well, public health insurance is good enough for the elected officials from the house of representatives and the senate, as well as the president and all of the armed forces. they get public health insurance, it's good enough for them, but apparently it's not good enough for the american citizen, or the american civilian doesn't deserve it. go figure.

Well, I think they would say that those government employees get health insurance from their employer and the think all americans should get it from their employer. That worked pretty well for a long time in the US but it's not working so well anymore. Maybe I should add that many government employees are paid less than they would make doing the same thing in private practice. Perhaps they work for less salary because they get better health care benefits (and more vacation, etc). (I know that doesn't apply to the president and our senators -- they make way less than they would in private practice but they're hardly doing it for the health care. )

I am fiscally conservative. I know that the health care system is broken, but so far I haven't seen any suggestions that I can get behind. I'm terrified of the mindset that "we have to do something, anything, even though we don't know what the fuck we're doing or what it will cost." Not when we're still at war in two countries.

[RobMoney$]

At least some Democrats understand bills have to be paid for eventually.

[saz]

i think having a public option is a great idea. people have the choice of sticking with, or choosing private health insurance companies, or going with the public one. with approximately 18,000 americans dying every year because they can't afford health insurance, i'd say it's a very serious issue.

how about ending american empire? that would save billions. it costs approximately 100 billion to maintain 750 to about 1000 foreign military bases. i don't think the us or the rest of the world has to worry about germany or japan acting up.

[Documad]

Why would my private employer offer health care coverage if I can get it from the government? Will a public option become a nationalized health care program eventually?

I don't see how we reform the system until we decide that some people won't be treated and some conditions won't be treated. And no politician is going to do that.

[saz]

Originally Posted by Documad

Why would my private employer offer health care coverage if I can get it from the government? Will a public option become a nationalized health care program eventually?

your private employer will still offer coverage, but they will receive some competition from the government. but of course, that will make corporations sad, so blue dogs will ensure that the us can't have sad corporations. so thousands and thousands of uninsured people will still die every year. i highly doubt a nationalized health care program will ever come to fruition in the states, unless of course the 72% of americans who support a public health insurance option storm capitol hill and demand max baucus' slimey, douchey head.

Originally Posted by Documad

I don't see how we reform the system until we decide that some people won't be treated and some conditions won't be treated. And no politician is going to do that.

ah yes, the private health insurance companies already do that.

[Documad]

Originally Posted by saz

your private employer will still offer coverage, but they will receive some competition from the government.

The government isn't supposed to compete with my employer, it's supposed to compete with my employer's insurance company, right?

I guess I don't understand your point. Perhaps my employer pays for my private coverage now because they want me to be able to work for them even if I need some major medical care because it's worth it to my employer if I come back to work at some point. My employer wants me to be able to have surgery without going bankrupt. But why would my employer pay $10,000 a year for my coverage if they know that they can drop my coverage, pay zero, and I'll still get on some government plan? Why won't that lead to most people being on the government plan -- a la the nationalized system that most americans don't want?

Originally Posted by saz

ah yes, the private health insurance companies already do that.

Not enough to balance the system. With the way we're living now, we have fewer and fewer people paying for more and more retired and sick people. I don't want half my money to go towards health care and social security for retired people. I don't see how we can pay for health care unless we make hard choices and decide that we're cutting costs. We can't pretend to cut costs unless we cut coverage.

[RobMoney$]

If you think Health Insurance is expensive now, just wait 'til it's free.

[saz]

Originally Posted by Documad

The government isn't supposed to compete with my employer, it's supposed to compete with my employer's insurance company, right?

right.

Originally Posted by Documad

I guess I don't understand your point. Perhaps my employer pays for my private coverage now because they want me to be able to work for them even if I need some major medical care because it's worth it to my employer if I come back to work at some point. My employer wants me to be able to have surgery without going bankrupt.

understood. but there is that possibility that if you needed some sort of procedure, or operation, your insurance provider will go through your medical history, and for some lame ass reason deny you coverage.

Originally Posted by Documad

But why would my employer pay $10,000 a year for my coverage if they know that they can drop my coverage, pay zero, and I'll still get on some government plan?

that depends on your decision. the legislation hasn't even passed yet, but if it does, you may tell your employer that you want to stick with your current insurance provider.

Originally Posted by Documad

Why won't that lead to most people being on the government plan -- a la the nationalized system that most americans don't want?

it very could lead to a nationalized plan, and most americans aren't against one.

Originally Posted by Documad

Not enough to balance the system. With the way we're living now, we have fewer and fewer people paying for more and more retired and sick people. I don't want half my money to go towards health care and social security for retired people.

but you're okay with your money going towards two endless, foreign wars, one in which was based on total b.s. and outright lies? you're okay with paying for bush's tax cuts for rich people? you're okay with paying for the american empire? you're okay with paying for a bloated, wasteful defence budget? you're probably not okay with those, but this is what outsiders don't get about many americans, that they don't want to pay into a system that benefits the entire society, it's this "me-me, fuck everyone else" mentality.

Originally Posted by Documad

I don't see how we can pay for health care unless we make hard choices and decide that we're cutting costs. We can't pretend to cut costs unless we cut coverage.

how about cutting the waste out of the defence budget? how about ending the illegal occupation in iraq, which is costing approximately nine billion a month?

[Dorothy Wood]

Originally Posted by Documad

Why would my private employer offer health care coverage if I can get it from the government?

this is something I'm concerned about. and mostly because anytime someone asks that, there's a lot of avoidance and double talk...which leads me to believe that it might be a problem that they just don't want to talk about right now.


I have no answers to the health care problem. I'm basically just in favor of things being fair, and people's lives and health being more important than a corporation's bottom line.

how to accomplish that, I don't know.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by saz

how about ending american empire? that would save billions. it costs approximately 100 billion to maintain 750 to about 1000 foreign military bases. i don't think the us or the rest of the world has to worry about germany or japan acting up.

yeah, why do we have bases in japan still? i was never clear on that.

[Documad]

Bob, shouldn't you be in bed?

[Bob]

sorry mom