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Old 02-05-2014, 07:55 PM
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Default Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

it's almost 3 hours long but well worth it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

it amazes me how some people are so happy and content with not questioning anything especially if it's from religion.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

I tried watching it live but just got depressed. Highlights?



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So wait, this guy is driving around in his jeep with his cat and his television in the back and he's got his favourite music blaring away and... I think I've missed the point.

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Old 02-06-2014, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

My favorite part was the whole noah's ark thing and evolution. Nye questioned how the kangaroos got to Australia from the middle east without any evidence of being in any other part of the world. how could they have made that trek from the middle east to the other side of the world without leaving any fossil evidence?

Ham brought up the famous finches of the galapogos. He believes that they did indeed evolve but only from a early finch. that early finch was on the ark. the ark only contained the single KIND of animal. that one kind of finch and other animals evolved into all the finches and animals of the world after the ark. the first finch was created by god. it didn't evolve from an earlier creature. he brought up dogs a lot too. I think he was referring to all canids as "dogs". all the "dog" species came about from one dog created by god. that dog had to have been on the ark in order to survive. all this happened within 4000 years or so.

Last edited by TurdBerglar : 02-06-2014 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

ham also believes that the grand canyon was created by the great flood. the grand canyon being one of the largest pieces of evidence for the great flood. and all the fossil evidence within the canyon were creatures killed by the flood.

Nye explained to him then if that were the case the fossils wouldn't be in a particular order. there's only certain creatures in certain layers of the grand canyon. because each layer was created at a particular time encapsulating which particular creatures were around at that particular time. if they were all killed at once there wouldn't be an order to how they are placed within they layers of the canyon. it would be just a jumbled mess.


the debate seemed very juvenile because of Ham's beliefs. trying to sway logic the best he can to conform to his book from thousands of years ago.

Ham is a very intelligent and educated guy and held his own. it wasn't like Nye was debating a retard. it was very interesting.

Last edited by TurdBerglar : 02-06-2014 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:29 AM
Yetra Flam Yetra Flam is offline
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

I've spent some time over the past couple of years with fundamentalist Christians. I think a lot of us have been led to believe that they are morons and idiots for their beliefs, but I don't think that's necessarily the case.

"The earth is only 5000 years old and was created in 7 days because the Bible says so" is not an argument. (Although there are many Christians who will admit that worldly scientific logic cannot be applied to spirituality, because its in the spiritual realm)

I'm pretty familiar with both sides of the argument, and I've heard more compelling arguments than just "The Bible tells me so."
There are people who talk about life. What is life? How do you explain life or its purpose? Where did life come from? How did it come from non life? How come everything we see exists for a purpose, if we do not exist for a purpose? Stuff like that.
There was a scientist who used standard population growth algorithms to project various scenarios, in relation to how long humans have existed.
And there's another scientist called Chuck Missler who examined the behavior and complexity in cells, and how you can liken it to a digital computer and how he has determined it to indicate some sort of intelligent creation.

So there are people who have actually investigated things, and come to their own conclusions.

But I don't know, I think its kind of a waste of time. I think it would be more beneficial for people with strong Christian faith to live their lives by example and inspire people around them than to debate with people that will never ever agree with them.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:38 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

It is not a waste of time. Trying to figure out how everything works or how it came to be is one of the major driving forces for everything that we have become. we should not be content with beliefs that are so constrained and limiting and not open ended. we should be looking and searching and learning and not be content and happy with what a single authority says. being like that is holding shit back. if there was no conflict from those thoughts we'd still be in the dark ages.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

standard religions are only good for those that need it. that use it as a crutch to be a decent, happy, moral person. for everything and everyone else that don't need it, it's a massive hindrance to progress.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

Well, discussion is not a waste of time, no. There's a way to compare notes and thoughts about everything in life that's beneficial.
But, within that sharing of ideas, trying to shake down someone else's faith/beliefs is a waste of time.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

And I'm not saying that Bill Nye or Ken Ham did this, but some people do.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

I think the word "Religion" denotes an attitude of going with the flow, going to church, saying all the things they're supposed to say, doing what they're told by their leaders, but without any deep thought or question as to why they're doing what they're doing.
But here's the thing, for a lot of deeply spiritual people, their faith rests in their own personal relationship with God. There are people that have tried to examine and apply scientific logic to their faith, but they can't. It doesn't mean that they're not deserving of it.
I think the whole "religion is for people who can't think for themselves" debate paints with a very broad brush. The majority of us (I hope) religion or no, know the difference between right or wrong. The bible does point to how you are responsible for your own life and are held accountable for your own actions.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

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Originally Posted by Yetra Flam View Post
I think the word "Religion" denotes an attitude of going with the flow, going to church, saying all the things they're supposed to say, doing what they're told by their leaders, but without any deep thought or question as to why they're doing what they're doing.
and this isn't horrible? is this not what major religions seem to teach? does this not cause people to develop a thought process that's halting? does this not cause the cessation for further understanding? it's robotic.

deeply religious people seem to have a much more limiting thought process. "it's like this BECAUSE someone said so! stop asking questions!" and they agree with that way of thinking. it's very preventative.

"where did this come from?"

"well god created it!"

the end

That kind of thinking stops people from pondering and reaching for knowledge that's beyond the obvious.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

But that's what Im saying. Religion vs Spirituality/faith. "Religion" is a term thats associated with a ritualistic going along with the motions, and I really don't think that it applies to everyone of faith. Do you get what Im saying? I find "religion" to be a deliberately negative word that's kind of thrown at people. Many people have faith in God and are independent of any major church or organization.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

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Originally Posted by Yetra Flam View Post
Many people have faith in God and are independent of any major church or organization.
I have no problem with that. and those are the same sentiments I tried to convey.

it's the religious churchy teachings and manipulative limiting thought processes that I have a massive problem with. and how they try to make things be brought back to their level so they feel happy and content.
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

The ironic part about this is that the Bible actually says not to take someone else's word for it, that they should find out for themselves.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

There is simply too much life for any of it to 'mean' anything. That is captured logic which holds back our collective consciousness.

That said, science hasn't explained everything. Darwin is the atheistic god.

My greatest wish would be for religious types to follow Jesus' lead in the new testament and eschew the dogma of the day (i.e. in his case, his disowning of the old testament).

We're only dealing in probabilities, and the existence of god is highly improbable (to the point of impossible) especially when compared to existing evidence. That it is called 'faith' is of little use, because that represents the lack of an argument.

I let people live on their own terms, though. Religiosity will be obsolete in a few generations.



Shout at the Devil!


Last edited by Kid Presentable : 02-06-2014 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

i really would like to watch this when i get the time. maybe this weekend.


bill nye is that dude.
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  #17  
Old 02-06-2014, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

science has not explained everything and I feel it never will. but science does try to explain everything. that never ending effort results in so many other beneficial things. religion does not seem to have that never ending effort of understanding. leaving things lie as they were. leaving stones unturned. not good for society at all. very evil.

religion seems to try to force its surroundings to conform to its antiquated and limiting beliefs. all fighting and pushing for everything to suit THEM. secular should be the norm as I feel it's COMPLETELY neutral and allows people their religion in their privacy. but religion does not seem to want to be held in privacy. it's very pushy, aggressive and defensive. constantly fighting for things to be in its favor regardless of everyone else.
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Old 02-07-2014, 01:23 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

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Originally Posted by Yetra Flam View Post
Many people have faith in God and are independent of any major church or organization.
im that way, i also believe the bible and god/jesus are mostly two seperate things like i wont believe they are being homophobes!

it hurts when some mormon family members keep saying homosexuality got planted into us by satan but even if i wasnt bi and my dad wouldnt be gay then i would still heavily disagree with them



...............................

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Hitler was RIGHT wing you stupid fuckbeast
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

Anyone every check on Penn and Teller's show called Bullshit!? They have a episode about the bible. You can find it on youtube. Interesting stuff!!!



Thank You Adam Yauch

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Old 02-10-2014, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

I can't believe this is even a thing.



some noise what I made

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Old 02-10-2014, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

I watched maybe a third of it, skipping around. Bill Nye was really classy, Ken Ham is still crazy.

The general feeling at the seminary is people shrugging and going "who cares?" because we pretty much all considered Ham a weirdo. I imagine there's a few conservatives who might get defensive, but I haven't heard anything from any of them. Mostly we're all just too busy with things that actually concern us to discuss in detail a debate between a crackpot and a friendly science enthusiast.



reality is a shit of a thing


Last edited by Waus : 02-10-2014 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

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I can't believe this is even a thing.
it bugs me that we're expected to give equal weight between A) a scientific theory of evolution backed by evidence and B) a single religion's creation myth

such balls on that single religion! if you're going to "teach the controversy" then surely every creation myth should be involved? if i had any means to do so, i'd like to get invited to an "evolution vs. creation" debate on the side of creation and just advocate for the hindu creation myth while not every acknowledging that christianity or any other religion has a story of their own.

richard dawkins is kind of a douche, but he does have that one quote that's pretty spot on here: “We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”



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Old 02-11-2014, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

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it bugs me that we're expected to give equal weight between A) a scientific theory of evolution backed by evidence and B) a single religion's creation myth

such balls on that single religion! if you're going to "teach the controversy" then surely every creation myth should be involved? if i had any means to do so, i'd like to get invited to an "evolution vs. creation" debate on the side of creation and just advocate for the hindu creation myth while not every acknowledging that christianity or any other religion has a story of their own.

richard dawkins is kind of a douche, but he does have that one quote that's pretty spot on here: “We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”
I agree with your points. I think the lack of other perspectives is probably just because this was specifically an invitation from Ham to Nye to discuss whether his version of the creation myth was scientifically tenable. Nye ably showed that it was not.



reality is a shit of a thing

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Old 02-13-2014, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

I wonder if when religion and "god" starts to become even less and less impactful to people that the separate overt religions and religious beliefs will start to ally and band together against scientific thinking.

there seems to be less and less people that identify with religion and god. there's going to be a point when there's hardly anybody left.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

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Originally Posted by TurdBerglar View Post
I wonder if when religion and "god" starts to become even less and less impactful to people that the separate overt religions and religious beliefs will start to ally and band together against scientific thinking.

there seems to be less and less people that identify with religion and god. there's going to be a point when there's hardly anybody left.
I guess it's possible. I don't really think the "science vs. religion" paradigm is accurate. I don't personally know any Christians who think science and religion are at odds, and even the fringe people I know several degrees removed generally come up with some shitty pseudo-science to justify their beliefs.

This guy has an unbearably slow cadence and english accent, but he kind of expresses what I think a lot of religious folks subscribe to now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSVPZykCRyQ Really - science and religion are not concerned with the same things. Some people hear this sort of defense and argue that the entire basis of religious belief is inimical to empirical science, I remain unconvinced.

Whether or not religion will continue to be a thing I can't say. I think it might, it'll just start coming from different portions of the world.



reality is a shit of a thing

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Old 02-16-2014, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waus View Post
I guess it's possible. I don't really think the "science vs. religion" paradigm is accurate. I don't personally know any Christians who think science and religion are at odds, and even the fringe people I know several degrees removed generally come up with some shitty pseudo-science to justify their beliefs.
I feel there's going to be a point in time when the only people left that are overtly religious are going to be more like Ken Ham. The more casual folks are just going to slowly abandon religion as has been happening for quite some time now. that trend will just continue. The folks like ken ham, regardless of religion, who attack science will team up.
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

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Originally Posted by TurdBerglar View Post
The more casual folks are just going to slowly abandon religion as has been happening for quite some time now. that trend will just continue. The folks like ken ham, regardless of religion, who attack science will team up.
The problem is those will also end up being the people who are willing to kill the other people to 'prove' they are right. Not saying Ken Ham is someone who would kill people; just talking about the progression of extremism.
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  #28  
Old 02-17-2014, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

hmmm

Bill Nye must be reading this board. haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zFruNyiUHQ


oops. wrong thread.

Last edited by TurdBerglar : 02-17-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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  #29  
Old 02-18-2014, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

Well, I am sure you know, I can’t give you the answer.

I do love studying ancient history, but how can you trust any of the authors. I assume, as stories got passed down they grew/changed. If we had a time machine we could probably disprove several historical documents. But the message is there if you want it. How about the Native Americans claim of a great flood and knowledge/preparation that it was going to happen. Trust me, I am not telling you to trust Native Americans, who knows what they were smoking.

I also believe you can study the Bible if you like and learn something. I still like the parable about the fig tree. Might sound simple, but I think the knowledge is helpful to me and I need it.

Anyway, studying the past can teach you and I often think about my friends debating weather its true or not. If they just tried to learn from it and take away what they can, it would work out good.



earl@fuckyoumyman.com

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  #30  
Old 02-21-2014, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Anybody watch the Bill Nye, Ken Ham creationist debate?

what the hell, is this real?

http://nation.time.com/2014/02/21/ga...gious-liberty/


how is this any different from refusing to serve any other group of people? lawful discrimination? jesus christ.
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