whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!?!?!?!

[bigfatlove06]

Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot

Here's what I THINK the issue is (pure speculation on my part). I don't know if there's any personal beef there but I'm pretty sure I've heard Mike (and maybe other Beasties or affiliates) basically say they're not into 311's music.

This makes a LOT of sense to me if you view 311 through the spectrum of somebody who's heavily into hip hop (which the Beasties were and are). To hip hop "heads", 311 comes off as a rock band who is sticking its toe in hip hop waters. They rap, but they don't really seem to be ingrained in the hip hop culture. You had a whole string of "rap rock" bands getting play in the early to mid 90s, Limp Biscuit, Sublime, etc., and they were "rapping" but they're not really flowing like an MC would be expected to flow per hip hop standards. My take was always that the college alternative crowd (who didn't really know shit about rap) loved 311, but I don't remember 311 ever getting embraced or even mentioned in the hip hop world. You weren't seeing 311 in Source magazine or anything like that. Red Alert and Kid Capri were not playing their records. Most hip hop fans in the 90s (that I knew) resented 311 because they came off as trying to capitalize on hip hop without paying dues. Now, I'm not saying any of this is true or fair. I seriously doubt 311's critics ever listened to much of their music. They just seemed like outsiders based on the way they were trying to rap and therefore pigeonholed as the white dudes trying to make a buck off of rap music.

The Beasties, on the other hand, were eventually able to ride that line between punk rock and rap really well. They were originally a hardcore band, but they also knew how to flow on the mic and paid their dues. You're not going to hear many hip hop godfathers saying 311 were great MCs, but you'll hear people like Run DMC, Jay Z, Chuck D, etc. give much respect to the Beastie Boys. So you have bands like 311 come on the scene in the mid 90s and the alternative college rock scene is lumping them in with the Beastie Boys, but the hip hop world looks at 311 as exploiting the culture. This is a sore spot wit the Beasties who've been accused of the same thing but are finally getting their due respect. I wonder whether the Beasties were so close to that line themselves that they didn't want to be associated with 311, Limp Biscuit, etc. because it would shed bad light on them.

The other thing is that I assume the Beasties felt like these "rap-rock" bands were biting their style. The Beasties music organically grew into a mesh of punk, rap and soul styles that worked really well. It almost seemed like things naturally fell into place and they created new styles by being themselves. So, when Check Your Head blew up and it seemed like every rock band wanted to rap and have a DJ now (because that's what was considered "cool" at the time) I'm sure the Beasties felt like these rap-rock acts were biting their stuff.

So, there's my theory anyway.

When 311 came out I was deeply steeped in hip hop. I loved their shit. Smashing together genres was so much fun for me then. I never even thought of them as a hip hop act. They were not hip hop to me, or trying to cash in. They fell into (amazingly diverse) groups like Mr Bungle, Camper Van Beethoven, and Urban Dance Squad who were cross pollinating. Memories... Love them.

I don't think that I have bothered to see what any of those guys have been up to for over 20 years, but I enjoyed it at the time.

[Jiberish]

Originally Posted by bigfatlove06

When 311 came out I was deeply steeped in hip hop. I loved their shit. Smashing together genres was so much fun for me then. I never even thought of them as a hip hop act. They were not hip hop to me, or trying to cash in. They fell into (amazingly diverse) groups like Mr Bungle, Camper Van Beethoven, and Urban Dance Squad who were cross pollinating. Memories... Love them.

I don't think that I have bothered to see what any of those guys have been up to for over 20 years, but I enjoyed it at the time.

Nailed it.

[ericg]

they played last night with the offspring in jax but sadly enuff i couldn't go...

[Brother McDuff]

311 in Jacksonville. thats priceless

[Micodin]

Originally Posted by Brother McDuff

311 in Jacksonville. thats priceless

Oh, so he’s from Florida. Makes sense.

[b-grrrlie]

Never even heard of 311. But I don't live in the States.

[ericg]

'fuck the naysayers cuz they don't mean a thing'

[dust monkey]

Originally Posted by Micodin

Oh, so he’s from Florida. Makes sense.

ha.....ericOMG say hi to freddy D and the rest of the go-tee metal-rap posse. maybe some of those Charlottesville boys will make their way down the amber highway too.

[ericg]

you're so fucking stupid

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Originally Posted by dust monkey

ha.....ericOMG say hi to freddy D and the rest of the go-tee metal-rap posse. maybe some of those Charlottesville boys will make their way down the amber highway too.

FYI, Charlottesville is a very liberal town. Most of those white supremacists at the rally were from other areas and other states. A lot of the counter-protesters were local though.

[abbott]

drugstore cowgirl and amber make my playlist

saw 311 a few years ago and loved it

311 makes up at least 1% of my playlist.

[WesleyOHSnaps!]

I saw 311 once open for Cyrpess Hill and the Phrcyde At the time they weren’t big and I assumed they were a group of 3 11 year old rapers. To this day I wish that was the case.

[bigfatlove06]

Originally Posted by Jiberish

Nailed it.

Sir SkratchaLot nailed it. I just identified with what he said.

[Jiberish]

Originally Posted by bigfatlove06

Sir SkratchaLot nailed it. I just identified with what he said.

You nailed the part about being deep into hip hop but still loving 311 for their unique spin on it. It seemed to me that was Sir Scratch-a-lot was saying the opposite. That people deeply steeped in hip hop resented 311.

Your point, as I understood it, was that they were more a part of the mid-90's alternative boom of genre smashing (which of course the Bboys practically invented)

"They were not hip hop to me, or trying to cash in. They fell into (amazingly diverse) groups like Mr Bungle, Camper Van Beethoven, and Urban Dance Squad who were cross pollinating. Memories... Love them."


I mean whatever, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But from my point of view, YOU nailed it. I felt the exact same way about 311 when I was in high school in the mid-90's.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Originally Posted by Jiberish

You nailed the part about being deep into hip hop but still loving 311 for their unique spin on it. It seemed to me that was Sir Scratch-a-lot was saying the opposite. That people deeply steeped in hip hop resented 311.

Your point, as I understood it, was that they were more a part of the mid-90's alternative boom of genre smashing (which of course the Bboys practically invented)

"They were not hip hop to me, or trying to cash in. They fell into (amazingly diverse) groups like Mr Bungle, Camper Van Beethoven, and Urban Dance Squad who were cross pollinating. Memories... Love them."


I mean whatever, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But from my point of view, YOU nailed it. I felt the exact same way about 311 when I was in high school in the mid-90's.

I was explaining why I thought Beasties wanted to distance themselves from 311 rather than trying to put a personal value judgment on whether they are good or not. Everyone's experiences vary and I'm sure you'll find some hip hop heads (who were listening to Kool G Rap, Heiro and Ice Cube) also happened to love 311, but I don't think your average hip hop head in the 1990s was giving any notice to 311 and perceived them as cultural leeches.

If you try to look at it from the Beastie's perspective, they came up through old school hip hop ranks. Even as (arguably) one of the most influential groups in hip hop, they had a hard time gaining acceptance from hip hop audiences because they were not black. The culture (especially in the late 80s and 90s) was seen as a black art form and there is a LONG history of white musicians capitalizing off of black music. People were sensitive to that and putting too much emphasis on 3 white guys was seen as taking away from the black artists. So, I think a lot of people wrongfully denied the Beasties the respect they deserved, or never really gave them a chance. Again, I'm not trying to say this applies to every single hip hop fan, I'm just giving you what I perceived to be as the majority view of the hip hop scene.

My theory is that the Beasties, having dealt with a lot hip hoppers not wanting to give them respect, and having gained a lot of respect from their hip hop peers by the mid 90s, did not want to upset the apple cart by being associating with 311 or similar bands.

That's just the vibe I get from the situation though. It could also very well be that Mike just doesn't dig 311's music.

[ericg]

new people are getting turned on to both bands every day in new light so ... and they just like the dope vibes, professionalism, technology and art but honestly who can listen to their music and not like one tune or mix? come the fuck on. 'je suis.. et j'aime.. par 311 and/ or Beastie Boys' is all you had to say here and there wouldn't have been a problem. Mike D is def known for being a provocateur so i give him that... jokes on me fellas.

again, thanx to the few here who were neutral but being a good nazi don't count for shit like a prius or fossil fueled VW ... can you deal with that?

[bigfatlove06]

Originally Posted by ericg

new people are getting turned on to both bands every day in new light so ... and they just like the dope vibes, professionalism, technology and art but honestly who can listen to their music and not like one tune or mix? come the fuck on. 'je suis.. et j'aime.. par 311 and/ or Beastie Boys' is all you had to say here and there wouldn't have been a problem. Mike D is def known for being a provocateur so i give him that... jokes on me fellas.

again, thanx to the few here who were neutral but being a good nazi don't count for shit like a prius or fossil fueled VW ... can you deal with that?

Honestly, I don't understand much of anything that you just said. I did like 311 back in the day though.

[Jiberish]

Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot

I was explaining why I thought Beasties wanted to distance themselves from 311 rather than trying to put a personal value judgment on whether they are good or not. Everyone's experiences vary and I'm sure you'll find some hip hop heads (who were listening to Kool G Rap, Heiro and Ice Cube) also happened to love 311, but I don't think your average hip hop head in the 1990s was giving any notice to 311 and perceived them as cultural leeches.

If you try to look at it from the Beastie's perspective, they came up through old school hip hop ranks. Even as (arguably) one of the most influential groups in hip hop, they had a hard time gaining acceptance from hip hop audiences because they were not black. The culture (especially in the late 80s and 90s) was seen as a black art form and there is a LONG history of white musicians capitalizing off of black music. People were sensitive to that and putting too much emphasis on 3 white guys was seen as taking away from the black artists. So, I think a lot of people wrongfully denied the Beasties the respect they deserved, or never really gave them a chance. Again, I'm not trying to say this applies to every single hip hop fan, I'm just giving you what I perceived to be as the majority view of the hip hop scene.

My theory is that the Beasties, having dealt with a lot hip hoppers not wanting to give them respect, and having gained a lot of respect from their hip hop peers by the mid 90s, did not want to upset the apple cart by being associating with 311 or similar bands.

That's just the vibe I get from the situation though. It could also very well be that Mike just doesn't dig 311's music.

Oh yeah. I also understood what you were saying. I don't disagree at all as to why Mike said what he said. I guess I had never really thought about it from there point of view before. But your hypothesis makes sense.

I was just surprised since they offered 311 up as a potential co-headliner in (what year was that?) '99... I always just assumed they were friends. 311-Music and 311- Grass Roots were as much a secret language the listener gets to decode as either early 90's Bboys record. To my ears, back then. at least.

[bigfatlove06]

Originally Posted by Jiberish

You nailed the part about being deep into hip hop but still loving 311 for their unique spin on it. It seemed to me that was Sir Scratch-a-lot was saying the opposite. That people deeply steeped in hip hop resented 311.

Your point, as I understood it, was that they were more a part of the mid-90's alternative boom of genre smashing (which of course the Bboys practically invented)

"They were not hip hop to me, or trying to cash in. They fell into (amazingly diverse) groups like Mr Bungle, Camper Van Beethoven, and Urban Dance Squad who were cross pollinating. Memories... Love them."


I mean whatever, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But from my point of view, YOU nailed it. I felt the exact same way about 311 when I was in high school in the mid-90's.

In that case, you're right. I nailed it. It's good to find a kindred spirit!

[Jiberish]

Originally Posted by bigfatlove06

In that case, you're right. I nailed it. It's good to find a kindred spirit!

Thumbs up!

[ericg]

hahahahahahhaah

omg why don't you just suck his dick. maybe have a little circle jerk with all your new friends...